View Full Version : Sanctuary Cities Question??
Averageman
11-15-16, 11:33
I'm not sure how you can, regardless of your position just middle finger some Federal Laws, but for the sake of argument, how far can these guys go and can the Fed's just arrest them at some point for obstruction?
http://www.aol.com/article/news/2016/11/14/lapd-says-it-wont-change-its-deportation-policies-under-trump/21605987/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl13%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D1049548967_htmlws-sb-bb
LAPD Chief Charlie Beck told the Los Angeles Times on Monday the department won't change its policies on deporting undocumented immigrants under Trump's administration.
"I don't intend on doing anything different," he said. "We are not going to engage in law enforcement activities solely based on somebody's immigration status. We are not going to work in conjunction with Homeland Security on deportation efforts. That is not our job, nor will I make it our job."
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/politics/ct-chicago-immigrant-sanctuary-city-met-1115-20161115-story.html
Mayor Rahm Emanuel on Monday promised to protect immigrants from deportation, even as president-elect Donald Trump has pledged to remove as many as 3 million immigrants who have criminal records and are living in the country illegally.
"To all those who are, after Tuesday's election, very nervous and filled with anxiety as we've spoken to, you are safe in Chicago, you are secure in Chicago and you are supported in Chicago," Emanuel said. "Chicago will always be a sanctuary city."
That vow is running headlong into Trump, who campaigned on blocking federal funding to sanctuary cities, ramping up deportations, increasing prison sentences for those who re-enter and building a wall along the Mexican border.
At some point someone or something is going to have some "give" in, these guys are pretty sure it is going to be Trump. Any guesses what could happen?
That's cute. DOJ cuts both ways
Averageman
11-15-16, 11:40
That's cute. DOJ cuts both ways
So the Obstruction Charge would fit and the ICE and FBI could walk in and cuff the CLEO and Mayor?
Want to end this liberal stuff, hold back Federal funds.
So the Obstruction Charge would fit and the ICE and FBI could walk in and cuff the CLEO and Mayor?
I don't know as I'm not in LE, but based off of the election results, these big city leaders have misjudged the American people on this issue. I think they ignore the immigration issue at their own political peril.
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KalashniKEV
11-15-16, 12:01
Arlington is a sanctuary city, and I hope to see some snow days in February.
Want to end this liberal stuff, hold back Federal funds.
That's the plan, IAW "Rule of Law" #3:
http://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501451368/here-is-what-donald-trump-wants-to-do-in-his-first-100-days
So the Obstruction Charge would fit and the ICE and FBI could walk in and cuff the CLEO and Mayor?
Yep. If you have an AG willing to play ball, Fed Law is Fed Law.
Like.....dope is "legal" in these states but the DEA will happily march up their asses because of Federal Law.
Federal Law says being an illegal alien is illegal
Maybe I'm wrong, I actually think the LAPD Chief was kind of playing to the guys, letting them know he wasn't going to have them checking every Juan and Juanita for DHS. I would have said 'we have more important crime related issues to deal with. An immigration status check will, however be part of the criminal arrest procedure.'
The problem I always ran into was an unwillingness of the feds to actually come and pick up illegals found away from their comfy offices.
One thing these cities/counties can do is refuse to house the illegals in their facilities, they don't have to house people on FED only charges. However if they decide to play that game then the FED can cut off funding which will put the cities in a bind to where they have to either raise taxes or cut municipal jobs to make up the shortfall. Both of those options typically lead to you being voted out of office the next time around but since these "sanctuary cities" are typically liberal cesspools who knows how it'll shake out.
The problem I always ran into was an unwillingness of the feds to actually come and pick up illegals found away from their comfy offices.
THIS!
Averageman
11-15-16, 12:52
I have a feeling based upon this being #3 on the new President Elect's list of things to do in 100 days, there will boot leather applied to some back pockets if Federal Agencies don't show up ricky tick for Juan or Juanita Felonista.
Maybe the priority wil be given to those we hold in Prisons first because the estimates I have read is 30% of the Prison Population is illegal.
I wouldn't however wave the red flag like these two Doofus's Matador's are doing just to test Trump's resolve though, as a matter of fact I hope Rham get's a letter on some Trump Tower Stationary today telling him to have a big bowl of STFU with some humility sprinkled on top for flavor.
The problem I always ran into was an unwillingness of the feds to actually come and pick up illegals found away from their comfy offices.
THIS!
The last 6 years of W's admin we actually had 2 ICE agents in our facility that screened people regarding their immigration status, after January 2009...POOF...never seen or heard from again. Go figure...
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-15-16, 13:15
Want to end this liberal stuff, hold back Federal funds.
Just like Mexico will pay for the wall, you have the states round people up if they want federal money for anything. Start with longer term stuff that doesn't affect people and ratchet it down until the pols and their minions start to feel it.
If countries don't take people back, you end VISAs for all and then go on to freeze their assests in the US to pay for housing them.
Averageman
11-15-16, 13:17
Just like Mexico will pay for the wall, you have the states round people up if they want federal money for anything. Start with longer term stuff that doesn't affect people and ratchet it down until the pols and their minions start to feel it.
If countries don't take people back, you end VISAs for all and then go on to freeze their assests in the US to pay for housing them.
Simply Delicious !
Revenge being served for dinner is always a treat.
So the Obstruction Charge would fit and the ICE and FBI could walk in and cuff the CLEO and Mayor?
Nah, that would never happen. Fed will hold back Federal funding, Chicago et al will sue, there will be some kind of compromise.
However, if ICE, a Federal agency, decided to go round those folks up, I'm not sure what Chicago can do about it except withhold access and investigatory data.
Nah, that would never happen. Fed will hold back Federal funding, Chicago et al will sue, there will be some kind of compromise.
However, if ICE, a Federal agency, decided to go round those folks up, I'm not sure what Chicago can do about it except withhold access and investigatory data.
And that withholding is obstruction on its own... could be conspiracy as well.
But I agree, nothing will come of it.
Averageman
11-15-16, 13:32
Nah, that would never happen. Fed will hold back Federal funding, Chicago et al will sue, there will be some kind of compromise.
However, if ICE, a Federal agency, decided to go round those folks up, I'm not sure what Chicago can do about it except withhold access and investigatory data.
Could the Governor override the Mayor at some point and work with the Federal Government in such a case?
Not all of these Blue Cities reside in Blue States. In Texas, I would guess the Governor would welcome the assistance and even provide the National Guard to help out.
Could the Governor override the Mayor at some point and work with the Federal Government in such a case?
Not all of these Blue Cities reside in Blue States. In Texas, I would guess the Governor would welcome the assistance and even provide the National Guard to help out.
No idea, but I can't see the Governor of Illinois going toe-to-toe in court with the Mayor of Chicago.
Averageman
11-15-16, 13:52
Perhaps the point might be more easily made by first directing attention to Dallas or San Antonio? A pre-emptive move by a Red State Governor even before the President Elect takes the Oath of Office might be a nice point to make before going for Illinois.
Just a reminder that along with Federal funding, State funding might also be in jeopardy and that no effort by the State will be made to circumvent the Federal Branches from coming in to the State or the City to effect these arrests and deportations.
I don't think it would take watching more than one or two of these Mopes getting cuffed and stuffed before Rahm gets the message and some of the Blue State Governors come on line.
Plumber237
11-15-16, 14:22
"To all those who are, after Tuesday's election, very nervous and filled with anxiety as we've spoken to, you are safe in Chicago, you are secure in Chicago
lol...I feel like that statement should be required to have the footnote: *Murder capital of the USA*
It's not LAPD, DPD or any other local law enforcement organizations job to enforce immigration law. In that sense the LAPD CLEO is correct. Enforcement of immigration law is the per view of federal agencies. However, local Leo can't obstruct the Feds from doing their jobs. Rain and company are taking a bet that the Feds have better things to do than go to shtihole-ville and check green cards all day.
Averageman
11-15-16, 16:45
It's not LAPD, DPD or any other local law enforcement organizations job to enforce immigration law. In that sense the LAPD CLEO is correct. Enforcement of immigration law is the per view of federal agencies. However, local Leo can't obstruct the Feds from doing their jobs. Rain and company are taking a bet that the Feds have better things to do than go to shtihole-ville and check green cards all day.
And the wager would seem to be Federal Funding, so it wont make a difference.
In the case of California that's never going to be an issue, they have all the money they need, just like Illinois.
These Blue Cities and States are usually very fiscally responsible like that.
Immigration has, for the most part, been a political football for decades, certainly before I became an SA, all my career, and God knows how long into the future. The law (even with St. Teddy Kennedy's 1965 spin on it) is complex but clear. It still is; "comprehensive immigration reform" is a lot like a "living constitution"--let us do as we damn well please and shut up. Concerning immigration law, a sovereign nation can write whatever it wants on a blank slate. Want to favor a particular group or exclude another? Have at it. Want to encourage blonde, blue-eyed Scandinavian babes, while excluding extraterrestrial life forms? No problem. The only legal issue is whether due process is being followed.
As to "sanctuary cities", that strikes right at the rule of law. Don't like the law? Just flip off the feds because you can. Just because most Administrations from Truman onwards have been spineless and corrupt, and allowed liberal/Progressive cities to "have it their way" doesn't mean they should. Don't like the law? Change it in proper fashion or learn to live with what you have; or face the consequences. Of course, as my old mentor once told me, "There's the law; then there are the court decisions; then there are interpretations; then there is agency and local policy; and then there's you and me out there deciding what we're going to do and how to do it.".
Notice that in all this rarely is there any rational discussion on what might be good for the country. In my experience immigration agents and cops pretty well agreed that the immigration laws should be enforced, because they both saw the consequences of non enforcement. The problems, as usual, have come from politicians and "management", not from guys on the street. They had their side of the street, and we had ours. No problem there.
...Not to mention the general public that thought for decades that it was all just a joke.
Lots of chickens in the pattern.
Sanctuary Cities are BS.
We have people in our own country to look out for. These people playing politics are charlatans.
If these people really, really wanted to be Americans; they'd do it.
In times past, I felt bad for them. But most folks south of the border actually are uninnoculated, illiterate, uncouth pieces of shit. They are like the Gypsies.
Most are into Sinsemilla and Meth. They don't care about shoplifting and rape to them is no big deal.
Notice I did not designate a specific nationality. Not unintentional. "Mexicans" is a catchall umbrella term. Like I don't know a Salvadoran or Honduran accent. You kiddin' me?
They can kiss my ass. These people have had some military/militia training and money is money to them.
Everyone gets these images of poor humble Pedro "just want to work".
Fvck "Pedro".
Los Ojos. Look in them sometimes. They play along but they will kill you with no hesitation if you run up on a wrong one. You wouldn't be their first or their last.
Mexicans aren't the problem. It's the "Mexicans" we don't need.
I dunno.....would you give a FARC free passage? Milk and Cookies?
Some shit these Mayors and CLEOs need to consider.
gunrunner505
11-15-16, 20:57
Turn off federal money to each of these cities and their corresponding states. Then the FBI marches into city hall and arrests the mayor, police chief and every city councilman they can find and charge them with harboring a fugitive, hindering prosecution and whatever else you can think up.
We're talking big fun now boys.
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As stated before cut off Federal funds. When you disrupt cash flow, you get their attention. Establish guidelines and any city that does not comply gets ZERO FEDERAL FUNDS until they do comply. You will have some hold outs, but eventually each city will do the right thing.
lol...I feel like that statement should be required to have the footnote: *Murder capital of the USA*
That's what I was thinking.
Ain't nobody safe and secure in Chicago!
Moose-Knuckle
11-16-16, 05:42
I wished there was a "sanctuary city" that ignored such Federal laws as the NFA, the GCA, and the FOPA.
Or a "sanctuary state" that treated Federal firearm laws like cannabis as they have done in places like OR, WA, CO, and AK.
Business_Casual
11-16-16, 06:14
I think you need to play the long game here. The idea, I think, is to get all these morons on record about how much they want to defy immigration law enforcement. When the next murder, attack or horrific crime is committed, at just the right time, you drop the rhetorical hammer on them in the alt media. How do they squirm out of that, is the thinking, er, I think.
This was discussed on O'Reilly last night. My honey, Kimberly Gilfoyle, (sic) said that if there was a federal warrant and the sanctuary city protected them, then CLEO and etc can be charged with a felony punishable up to 5 years in prison. Otherwise, not so much.
And the wager would seem to be Federal Funding, so it wont make a difference.
In the case of California that's never going to be an issue, they have all the money they need, just like Illinois.
These Blue Cities and States are usually very fiscally responsible like that.
I need to change the batteries in my sarcasm meter.......
How about a sanctuary campus?
*************************
'Sanctuary campus' protests target Trump immigration policies
By Catherine E. Shoichet, CNN
Updated 2:08 PM ET, Wed November 16,2016
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/16/politi...mpus-protests/
"Their aim: Pressuring officials to make their school a "sanctuary campus" that limits cooperation with federal immigration authorities."
How about a sanctuary campus?
*************************
'Sanctuary campus' protests target Trump immigration policies
By Catherine E. Shoichet, CNN
Updated 2:08 PM ET, Wed November 16,2016
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/16/politi...mpus-protests/
"Their aim: Pressuring officials to make their school a "sanctuary campus" that limits cooperation with federal immigration authorities."
That's fine, the feds should return the favor and limit their cooperation with them, by cutting off their federal funding, And poof, there goes the therapy dogs, ponys, cry rooms, safe spaces, and hopefully a few of these collages will be forced out of business.
As a local cop I can't enforce federal law. Just like the Feds can not enforce local law. We can detain for violations and so can they. The key is to work together. On 60 min Trump said he would deport illegals with criminal records or we would incarcerated them. He is not talking about rounding everyone up. He said the number was 2-3 million.
"UNDER NEW RULES, VERMONT STATE POLICE CAN NO LONGER ASK UNDOCUMENTED RESIDENTS ABOUT IMMIGRATION STATUS"
http://vtdigger.org/2011/11/05/under-new-rules-vermont-state-police-can-no-longer-ask-undocumented-residents-about-immigration-status/
Here is the sample policy most VT Pd's, including mine, are using. It was mandated by statute.
http://vlct.org/assets/Resource/Models/VLCT-PACIF-Fair-Impartial-Policing-Policy-April-2014-.pdf
Has anyone else lost sleep after more or less having to let a gaggle of strange Julios go, or is it just me?
Some carried themselves a bit too adroitly and looked way too sharp in their gaze when they realize homeboy hablas.
ramairthree
11-17-16, 00:25
Yep. I don't think anyone has gone out of their way to round up some Julios at the job site, dairy farm, or orchard.
But when they have a drunken, uninsured wreck,
to make laws where the LEO cannot detain check into or notify immigration or on some wary looking 'tatted up types that seem way too street smart and see if they are legally here is pure progressive liberalism.
The same types that want as many Muslims here as fast as possible, with as little vetting as possible.
Hopefully the liberals are so butt hurt over this election,
That they double down on everything and piss off even more voters.
Averageman
11-17-16, 06:47
Hopefully the liberals are so butt hurt over this election, That they double down on everything and piss off even more voters.
I'm guessing there isn't a lot of regret right now from people who voted "Trump". Hold the election all over again and you would likely have him winning by larger numbers.
Averageman
11-17-16, 08:01
Could the Governor override the Mayor at some point and work with the Federal Government in such a case?
Not all of these Blue Cities reside in Blue States. In Texas, I would guess the Governor would welcome the assistance and even provide the National Guard to help out.
Here is an interesting local tid-bit the Austin Chief of Police is leaving Austin for Houston.
There has been some back and forth with this issue in Austin. Being that Austin is the State Capital and we have a GOP, "Hell on Wheels" Governor, I'm thinking Austin is going to comply with this immediately.
Art "I'm a Hillary Clinton kind of Liberal" Acevedo came to Austin from LAPD and has not been the best "fit" for the job. He's leaving for Houston where I believe the City Government will fight Trump on this a little harder and hold out a little longer.
See Ya Art! Take your Blue State values and get the F' out of Austin.
See Ya Art! Take your Blue State values and get the F' out of Austin.
And don't let the door hit you in the ass!
But sad to say, our mayor wants Austin to be a sanctuary city along with Dallas and Houston.
http://www.mystatesman.com/news/news/local/undocumented-families-protest-trumps-election-at-c/ns7ZM/
Travis county voted 2/3 blue for Hillary, most of that coming from the City of Austin, which is overwhelmingly blue.
"What is best in life?"
"To arrest a criminal alien, to hear the slam of his jail cell door closing, and to go home and open a cool one."
Prom queen optional.
Prosecuting the SOB under 8 USC 1326, re-entry after deportation, isn't bad, either.
Yep. I don't think anyone has gone out of their way to round up some Julios at the job site, dairy farm, or orchard.
But when they have a drunken, uninsured wreck, to make laws where the LEO cannot detain check into or notify immigration or on some wary looking 'tatted up types that seem way too street smart and see if they are legally here is pure progressive liberalism.
In the drunken, uninsured wreck you would probably jail the guy, but I'm not for sure if the feds are interested enough to act on that level of criminal offense. What really needs to happen IMO is give arrest powers for immigration violations to state and local LEO's.
The possible consequences of that would be a totally jammed federal court system and way overfilled detention facilities. Plus you would always have the dumber officers arresting 3rd generation American citizens who have the misfortune of being Hispanic.
I think a better way to do the deal is just start summonsing the CEO's of companies employing illegals and hitting them with fines and jail. Seriously, don't even classify it as a felony 1 months in county and a $100,000 fine would cure that shit. If it didn't, next rodeo 2 months in county and $200,000 fine. Third time, I would assume they hadn't found a boyfriend in county lockup so I'd send them to a federal joint for a year and a day.
The problem is that the people with the money are making the rules - that is why immigration became a problem in the first place.
Averageman
11-17-16, 12:30
And don't let the door hit you in the ass!
But sad to say, our mayor wants Austin to be a sanctuary city along with Dallas and Houston.
http://www.mystatesman.com/news/news/local/undocumented-families-protest-trumps-election-at-c/ns7ZM/
Travis county voted 2/3 blue for Hillary, most of that coming from the City of Austin, which is overwhelmingly blue.
I think the Liberal agenda for Austin has about hit its limit.
It's not that we don't have enough Californians trying to recreate Los Angeles East of the Pecos living here, it is that some of them are getting about sick of the two or three incidents a weekend that involve major crimes that come along with "our" illegals.
If some of these folks knew how much Meth and Heroin were coming up the I35 corridor from Mexico, they might rethink paying ten bucks more to have their house cleaned, their yard mowed, or someone to lay some cement for them.
The rising cost of education through their taxes to send these "new" American anchor babies from K-12 is staggering.
I think a better way to do the deal is just start summonsing the CEO's of companies employing illegals and hitting them with fines and jail. Seriously, don't even classify it as a felony 1 months in county and a $100,000 fine would cure that shit. If it didn't, next rodeo 2 months in county and $200,000 fine. Third time, I would assume they hadn't found a boyfriend in county lockup so I'd send them to a federal joint for a year and a day.
The problem is that the people with the money are making the rules - that is why immigration became a problem in the first place.
The above more than anything would stop the problem here.
The employer isn't paying the full rate for their labor, they are passing that cost off to the Tax Payer.
I would agree, jail the offenders and make it a public spectacle when you do so. Let people know how much of their increase in property and federal tax is because we are supplementing cheap labor for special interest groups.
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