Developing a working 62 gr Gold Dot clone load

[Leonidas24]

For anyone that wasn't paying attention, RMR Bullets has been selling what I assume to be 62 gr Gold Dot or Fusion .224 projos for a good price and I picked up 500 of these new (not pulled) and would like any insight on powder choice, primer, etc. They will be loaded in either LC, Speer, or Winchester 5.56 cases, and will be used for hunting and SD. For this same purpose I have 64 gr Nosler BSB's loaded over 23.1 gr of 8208 XBR, but they're loaded to about 2,750 fps out of a 14.5 bbl and I'll primarily be using these out of a 11.5" SBR w/ suppressor. On hand I have TAC (SBR doesn't like it), 8208 XBR, H322, Varget, CFE223, and BLC-2. I'd prefer to use a ball powder for easy metering but I'm not locked in to any of the powders I currently have.

Thus far I've read through the Ramshot and Hodgdon load data, and while Ramshot shows some promising data it's all with powders I've never used (except TAC) and Hodgdon's data is anemic at best. I'm entirely open minded about this, and while I could just continue to use the 64 gr Nosler load I have, Nosler pro shop doesn't seem to have them on sale as often as the past, and good deals seem not to be had at this time.

[jl1288]

I bought 2500 of them. I pulled a few bullets from a box of 62gr gold dot factory load, and I believe these are the same bullet. I've not had time to work up any loads as of yet, but it seems you are on the right track with the usual suspects for proven powders. If this is any help I did get to try TAC with 64gr Winchester PSP's. My results were terrible. Good luck and please post any results you discover as will I.
John

[markm]

If you like ball, try the CFE. I had a pound of it and it seemed to sling 62s very well. I didn't log any thorough data, but I did like the stuff.

I load 62 gr Ball with 23.5 gr of 8208 XBR as a stout blaster load. I should load up some bonded 62s and see if it works. I still have a bunch from ARchad, that I haven't yet messed with.

[Leonidas24]

If you like ball, try the CFE. I had a pound of it and it seemed to sling 62s very well. I didn't log any thorough data, but I did like the stuff.

I load 62 gr Ball with 23.5 gr of 8208 XBR as a stout blaster load. I should load up some bonded 62s and see if it works. I still have a bunch from ARchad, that I haven't yet messed with.
If i recall hodgdon lists 23.2 gr 8208 as max load for a 63 gr Sierra softpoint, which isn't surprising considering how conservative their data is. I wish I could score a keg of WC844 but I think those days are over.

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[markm]

If i recall hodgdon lists 23.2 gr 8208 as max load for a 63 gr Sierra softpoint, which isn't surprising considering how conservative their data is. I wish I could score a keg of WC844 but I think those days are over.


Yeah. I use 23.5 because it's our 77 gr 5.56 pressure load. So I figured it'd be safe on a 62 gr.

[vizsla]

There is an old thread on TOS on reloading about using these pulled fusion/ gold dot bullets. I used that as a starting point. It is about a year and half old. You can google TOS pulled 62gr fusion bullets. The thread with the most posts ~50.

I have some of the original ones from a couple of years ago. These are pulled not new, like RMR has now. These are a mix of 62 and 64 gr bullets. Haven't really found that to be much of a factor.

Here is some data using a magnetospeed:
Factory ammo
Fusion (regular)
1. 16 in centurion barrel 2653 fps, 2683 fps
2. 11.5 in centurion barrel 2465 fps, 2489 fps

Fusion MSR
1. 16 in centurion barrel 2791 fps, 2866 fps, another day I got 2809 fps, 2841 fps
2. 11.5 centurion barrel 2624 fps, 2767 fps

Speer 64 gr gold dot
16 in centurion barrel 2834 fps, 2823 fps

I worked up a load using CFE223 with pulled LC brass. 27.5 gr. Seated to cannelure and light Lee FCD. Gets me about 2900fps in 16 in BCM and centurion barrels. 2650 fps in the 11.5 in centurion barrel. 2975 fps in a 20 in criterion barrel. I have read things to keep these bullets under 3000fps. Accuracy is decent, getting around 1 inch 5 shot groups at 50 yards. I haven't messed around a whole lot for accuracy, given that I am using pulled bullets with mixed weights and trying to get decent results for several barrels. 50% of the primers look like the middle primer on the massreloading pressure signs picture for the 357 mag. The other 50% show no flattening. I am in MN so this was in 80 degree max weather. Probably want to reduce the load if in warmer weather since CFE223 is temp sensitive.

[Leonidas24]

It's nothing revolutionary but I had a chance to go out and run the most accurate 62 gr GD load over a chrono today. Load data as follows:

LC16 once fired brass
CCI #41 SR
25.8gr TAC
62 gr GDSP
Crimped with a Lee factory crimp die

Load was shot out of my wife's AR which I built using a VLTOR MUR upper and a Ballistic Advantage 16" Hanson profile bbl. A Silencerco Saker was mounted for the test. Conditions were negligible as it was fired at an indoor range at 25 yds, with an inside temperature of 69 degrees. More testing is needed to determine high/low temperature variables but obviously it won't be winter for a while.

10 shot avg was 2932 fps with an SD of 16.2. There can be a little improvement made in the way of the standard deviation but overall I'm pleased with this load as a viable HD/SD cartridge. To finalize everything I think I'm going to do a repeat of the test with factory LC primed brass, if only to get a sealed and crimped primer. I'm not interested in pushing this load any faster; 25.8 gr yields about 1.75-2 MOA at 100yds, and 26.0-26.2gr of TAC opens up to around 3-3.5 MOA.

[ace4059]

This thread made me order 2000 of the 62gr fusion bullets from RMR. I've been working up a load over the last month and have been meaning to do a review on them. I just haven't used them for hog hunting yet.
Plus my chrono is in my car at the auto repair shop. Been there for the last three months due to ins dragging their feet.

So far I'm at 1-1.5 MOA with some hots loads. The three powders so far that I've tried have been TAC, BL-C(2), and CFE 223. I still have benchmark, varget, 4066, 8020, and a few others I can try but I want to stay with a ball powder for my Dillon press to load them fast.

[ace4059]

Leondas24,
Had you had a chance to test any other powders? Any pics of the groups?

The CFE 223 seems to work the best out of the three powders I have tried thus far.
I didn't want to clutter your thread so I started one with my results. I was surprised the TAC doesn't work well in SBR's.

[Nightvisionary]

Here is what I recorded from a recent work up using the 64 Grain Gold Dots from RMR, CFE, CCI 41, mixed brass, O.A.L. 2.300 through a 16 inch Faxon pencil barrel.

25.8- 2599,2619, 2650, 2629, 2645

26.0- 2645, 2721, 2677, 2645, error

26.2- 2732, 2710, 2818, 2760, 2715

26.4- 2732, 2766, 2749, 2795, 2743

26.6- 2777, 2749, 2842, 2795, 2789

26.8- 2789, 2898, 2795, 2812, 2898

[sjoliat]

I wish I could score a keg of WC844 but I think those days are over.

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http://www.patsreloading.com/patsrel/prices.aspx?category=Powder
I don't know how current his page is but it looks like he has it

[Leonidas24]

Leondas24,
Had you had a chance to test any other powders? Any pics of the groups?

The CFE 223 seems to work the best out of the three powders I have tried thus far.
I didn't want to clutter your thread so I started one with my results. I was surprised the TAC doesn't work well in SBR's.

There's a test target in the garage somewhere with test groups on it, I'll have to find it to take pics. I wasn't thoroughly impressed with CFE considering the amount of powder needed to get the bullets up to speed, 2932 avg with 25.8 gr of TAC is great because TAC is my go-to for 77 gr SMK's (24.3gr) and Hornady 55 gr FMJ's (24.5gr) -- it's almost the perfect ball powder for any/everything.

[Eric D.]

Leonidas - What is it you don't like about TAC in your SBR? I'm going to theorize that since TAC is a slightly slower burning power it's not the ideal choice for a short barrel? I have a bunch of it and I've had decent results with 62 gr ss109 bullets. Haven't tried it with anything lighter - I've read it's better suited for heavier projectiles.

I have some of the Nosler 64 BSBs and CFE223 and 8208 XBR I'm going to start with. Very interested in coming up with a good load for these bullets.

[robtx]

I guess a lot of folks think the same way! I've been working on the same bullet with XBR and AR Comp. They aren't as accurate as my 60NBT, but that might not even be a fair comparison. Both seem to work about the same with 2MOA @ 100 with LC16, BR4s, 24.5GR in my 11.5 and 2 x 14.5s. Same load the 60NBT's run 1-1.25" across the same rifles.

I ended up sorting by weight because of flyers in my strings which I couldn't pin down. I found that about 1 in 25-50 was way out of whack and that seemed to have helped. I just built up a new 18 Faxon HB and need to revisit with it. What might be of interest is that I found that these bullets don't like to be seated long, my logs show things like 2.245 OAL were 3.8" @ 100.

If anyone is really interested I can post some more detailed logs of my adventure, I keep all groups during load workup...even the bad ones. I weed out called flyers, but it also means a re-shoot of the string...I'm not easy on myself :-)

[Leonidas24]

Leonidas - What is it you don't like about TAC in your SBR? I'm going to theorize that since TAC is a slightly slower burning power it's not the ideal choice for a short barrel? I have a bunch of it and I've had decent results with 62 gr ss109 bullets. Haven't tried it with anything lighter - I've read it's better suited for heavier projectiles.

I have some of the Nosler 64 BSBs and CFE223 and 8208 XBR I'm going to start with. Very interested in coming up with a good load for these bullets.

It's only one barrel I've used on this SBR, but my normal load of 24.5 gr TAC under a Hornady 55gr FMJ would not cycle out of a BA 11.5" govt, with the adjustable gas block in place. For it, I dropped my charge weight down to 24.0 gr and it began cycling fine. I ended up selling off that barrel since I didn't have a lot of rounds through it and replacing it with an old 14.5" CHF barrel that was lying around.

[Leonidas24]

I happened to forget targets the day we went out to do accuracy testing with this load, and ended up using a shot up USPSA target found in the range shed. While 25.4 yielded a tighter group I wanted to push this a a little faster, 2900fps was the target velocity, and ultimately settled on 25.8. It wasnt until later that I was able to run the load over the magnetospeed, and realize 25.8 hit the target velocity. The 25.8gr group had an extreme spread of 1.75" at 100 yds. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/d42982096ada366f3c9b324079c0e0e3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/bdacf6fa81c799a8262bd7aa760d9475.jpg

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[purple_yota27565]

I know you where looking for more ball powders but I'm running the 62 gr bonded over 25.5 grs of varget but I don't have my notes in front of me so I'm not 100% on that. LC brass with cci 400. Getting about moa out of my psa pencil barrel upper.

[Eric D.]

I'll take some pics of brass and targets from my most recent loads and post when I get a chance. With the 64 gr nosler bsb, mixed brass and wolf srm's I went as high as 26.6 gr CFE223 and 23.6 8208 XBR without any issues. 80 degrees F ambient. No chrono data. The only thing I don't like about the cfe is that it makes my brass eject forward. This was my first time using the XBR and I liked it. It doesn't stink like some other powders do.

[Leonidas24]

I'll take some pics of brass and targets from my most recent loads and post when I get a chance. With the 64 gr nosler bsb, mixed brass and wolf srm's I went as high as 26.6 gr CFE223 and 23.6 8208 XBR without any issues. 80 degrees F ambient. No chrono data. The only thing I don't like about the cfe is that it makes my brass eject forward. This was my first time using the XBR and I liked it. It doesn't stink like some other powders do.

I'd like to go back through and retest 8208 XBR with the Nosler bullet. Current load I'm using for that is virgin primed LC12 brass with 23.1 gr 8208 XBR and the Nosler 64 gr BSB. Velocity out of a 14.5" bbl was right around 2750 if I remember right, but according to Hodgdon's online data source I think 23.2 was listed as max at the time for the closest comparable bullet (63 gr Sierra softpoint.) If you're shooting 23.6 gr of 8208 XBR without pressure signs that's awesome.

[Eric D.]

Shooting from 50 yards at 1x magnification. I'm not a stickler for groups and all that so take it for what you will. Noticeable POI shift from my M855 zero. Also was trying out a new Surefire warden so maybe that made a difference. Top left is 23.2gr XBR, top right is 23.4gr XBR and center is 23.6 gr XBR.

I was working with markm's info on 23.5 gr XBR being used for a 5.56 pressure load w/ 77gr bullets and wanted to work my way up and see how high I could go. I may even go a little higher. Some of the brass shows mild ejector swiping but some of it was also pre-existing being once fired factory 5.56 loads. Nothing crazy going on with the primers.

46015460164601746018

It sucks that there's so little data available for real 5.56 loads in real 5.56 chambers. What data there is is based on the ~62k psi figure for M855A1. I don't want to go that high I just want data that makes 55k in a real 5.56 chamber.