View Full Version : 9mm ammo - then and now
I've heard people say on a couple different occasions that the 9mm ammunition of today is more effective than that which was available during the 1980's.
Specifically, what are the improvements that have been made over the last couple decades? Are we talking significant advances in performance or just small incremental improvements?
John_Wayne777
09-12-08, 20:53
More reliable penetration and expansion.
The heavy hitters for the 1911/45 ACP were mostly recommending hardball for reliability.
The big improvement came with the arrival of bonded bullets. They allow for the above emntioned expansion as well as penetration.
The improvement in pistol bullet design over the last 20 + years has to do with the FBI & the IWBA developing test protocols that forced bullet designers to come up with more robust projectile designs to meet their [FBI & IWBA] standards.
The improvement in handgun ammunition have been across the board, not merely with 9mm.
Advancements in bullet technology and increases in pressures to +P and +P+. Consider that a standard pressure 9mm jhp has considerably more engery than a .38 +P, then consider how much more engery a 9mm+P has. It really is quite an effective cartridge when the better loads are chosen and has performed very impressively for me on coyotes. The best jhp's from the 1980's are todays value packed jhp's from Rem and Win that can be had at wally world at some good prices (inflation adjusted of course:()
Some of this will repeat what's already been said, but the major improvements are:
Improvement overall in JHP design. The "machine in a bullet" technology that's been constantly revamped over the past 10-15 years has given us bullets (in all common handgun calibers) that perform well.
Standardized testing protocols have provided a repeatable, scientific method for measuring performance. There is some bad along with the good, here, but overall it's paved the way for a lot of the technological improvements mentioned above.
The myth of "they all fall to hardball" has been exposed to the light of reality, and once folks had to admit that a good 9mm JHP was more effective than a .45 FMJ, well, some gun writers died a little inside.
It's also worth noting that quite a few agencies were very happy with the real world performance of their hot 9mm +p+ JHPs back in the day, even though those same rounds do abysmally on the FBI test.
At least one major federal LE agency is considering a switch to 9mm from it's more powerful current issue weapon. Why the possible switch? Same reasons I've been advocating the 9mm for years: cost of ammo, capacity, easy to shoot, and it does in fact tend to make bad people fall down go boom when they got shot in the right place.
It's also worth noting that quite a few agencies were very happy with the real world performance of their hot 9mm +p+ JHPs back in the day, even though those same rounds do abysmally on the FBI test.
At least one major federal LE agency is considering a switch to 9mm from it's more powerful current issue weapon. Why the possible switch? Same reasons I've been advocating the 9mm for years: cost of ammo, capacity, easy to shoot, and it does in fact tend to make bad people fall down go boom when they got shot in the right place.
This makes me think of Federal's 9BP-LE 115gr.+P+JHP.
Don't suppose we could get a hint on who, huh?:)
The myth of "they all fall to hardball" has been exposed to the light of reality, and once folks had to admit that a good 9mm JHP was more effective than a .45 FMJ, well, some gun writers died a little inside.
Bill Davison, the owner of Tac Pro and a former Royal Marine Commando and Special Boat Service guy, offers another angle on the 'myth of the mighty .45' when he asks 'who remembers all those reports about the failure of 9mm from the SAS and SBS?'
The idea that the 9mm was/is significantly less effective than the .45 is a very American one.
Michael de Bethencourt tells a tale about the time his French-Canadian father attended a local IPSC match with him. When his father asked what this 'minor caliber' thing was & Michael explained, his father, in his truly inimitable style, told the RO standing there 'Listen, sonny, in the war, I killed a lot of men using this 9mm. Not one of them ever told me I killed them with too little a bullet.':D
How many times have we heard the story about the failure of the .38 during the 'Phillipine' and 'Moro' Insurrections? How the Army pulled 1873 Colt Peacemakers, by-God .45s, from storage and [oh, waitaminute, this part gets left out] they were no more effective than the .38s?
In fact, the reports are fairly common about Moro warriors taking multiple rounds of .30-40 Krag and still pressing their attack.:eek:
Bill Davison, the owner of Tac Pro and a former Royal Marine Commando and Special Boat Service guy, offers another angle on the 'myth of the mighty .45' when he asks 'who remembers all those reports about the failure of 9mm from the SAS and SBS?'
The idea that the 9mm was/is significantly less effective than the .45 is a very American one.
Michael de Bethencourt tells a tale about the time his French-Canadian father attended a local IPSC match with him. When his father asked what this 'minor caliber' thing was & Michael explained, his father, in his truly inimitable style, told the RO standing there 'Listen, sonny, in the war, I killed a lot of men using this 9mm. Not one of them ever told me I killed them with too little a bullet.':D
How many times have we heard the story about the failure of the .38 during the 'Phillipine' and 'Moro' Insurrections? How the Army pulled 1873 Colt Peacemakers, by-God .45s, from storage and [oh, waitaminute, this part gets left out] they were no more effective than the .38s?
In fact, the reports are fairly common about Moro warriors taking multiple rounds of .30-40 Krag and still pressing their attack.:eek:
Although I am currently a little behind the times, I used to study ballistics a lot and a lot street results as well. I don't know the current trends but the .45 fmj used to have an identical performance record to the 9mm fmj. I used to subscribe to the .45 myth but not in several years. I personally feel the 9mm to be a little more reliable when used in a quality pistol due to the tappered profile of the round not to mention the capacity. I know people will make their own choices which is the way it should be, but I get a little tired of hearing people say 'gotta have a 45' without knowing any other single fact on ballistics. Not that a 45 is ever a bad choice but people just go on hearsay.
More reliable penetration and expansion.
Agree. Technology has really changed. I see little difference between the stopping power of a 9mm load and a 45 these days.
C4
I have no issue with 9mm and often carry it (124gr +P Gold Dot) but prefer shooting .45. It just feels right to me probably because of all the years I have been shooting it. I also think it is more likely to crunch through bone to get to vital organs.
motorcopm4
10-17-08, 06:59
I have no issue with 9mm and often carry it (124gr +P Gold Dot) but prefer shooting .45. It just feels right to me probably because of all the years I have been shooting it. I also think it is more likely to crunch through bone to get to vital organs.
+1 I agree, I carry a .45 off duty but would not hesitate to carry my G19 with my +P Gold Dots and have, the 124g GD is a great 9mm round IMO
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