View Full Version : New precision shooter, what to get?
Granted, when I say new I really do mean it. My wife wants to get in on the action but is leaning towards precision shooting out to 300M. Instead of running out and buying a high dollar MK12 upper I'm really only looking to get something that she can "grow into" as she progresses. Probably something more suitable than the 6720 loaded with M193 that she's shooting now. I've done a bit of reading and it looks like a match ammo, a BCM ELW upper and a Leupold Mark AR is the obvious answer, maybe add an ALG trigger to the mix. If I'm headed in the wrong direction or if I can get by with the Colt Lightweight, some glass and better ammo let me know. Either way, something needs to go under the x-mas tree for Mama besides the NES Classic.
I'd say going from a 6720 to an ELW upper would be a wash if you're really looking for precision. Why not just use the match ammo and scope with the 6720? Maybe a geissele?
Does it have to be an AR? Maybe a bolt gun in .223?
556BlackRifle
11-19-16, 14:20
I might shift in a slightly different direction. With regard to the scope, I have a Leupold Mark AR firedot 1 to 4 on an AMD Recon mount. I like it and still have it but, I swapped in a Vortex Viper PST 6 to 24 mounted in a Geissele Super Precision mount. I'm now able to reach out much farther (~330 yards) with the same accuracy I saw at 100 yards. There's a lot more than just gear that goes into long range precision shooting but at the same time, you have to be able to see what you want to hit. The rifle has a 16" barrel, free float handguard, Geissele SSA-E trigger, and I run either a Harris S Bipod or an Atlas. They both work great.
Depending if you have the heavy barrel 6920 or the light weight version, you might be able to mod your existing setup and give her a great platform to start from. You can then see how she likes it and if she feels ready to move on, sell or trade that upper to help defray the cost of the new upper.
Upgrades that would help her shoot better would be:
Free Float Handguard
Geissele SSA-E
Harris S series bipod
The best scope and mount that you can afford
A shooting mat and bean bags for support
Good quality ammo. (Once you find something that she likes, buy a large quantity from that same lot or better yet - if you reload, work up a load for her.)
Teach her how to breath and slowly press the trigger with follow through after the hammer falls. (This is the hard part. If you can master this, you will shoot well.)
Good luck!
Get this http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SS410-18-Rifle-Upper-Receiver-Group-w-BCM-KM-p/bcm-urg-18-ss410-kmr-a-15.htm and put a fixed 10X scope on it. Forget about the ALG trigger for precision shooting. You want a good 2 stage. If it's for range use only an SD-E would be nice. If she loses interest these things would be easy to sell. Ammo... Start her out with Magtech or IMI 77gr OTM. There are better bullets but nothing even close for 60 cents a round.
I'd say going from a 6720 to an ELW upper would be a wash if you're really looking for precision. Why not just use the match ammo and scope with the 6720? Maybe a geissele?
I'm not opposed to it at all. I'm asking because I'm not a precision shooter and I almost never shoot beyond 100M.
A Ruger precision rifle...
If you want an AR build you an 18-20 inch upper and throw optics on it.
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crusader377
11-19-16, 16:21
I honestly think if you wife is new to shooting I would go with a quality .22 bolt (CZ Military Trainer), and decent scope (Nikon or Leupold rimfire etc...) and lots of practice. I would see how much she is really interested in shooting before buying an expensive rifle. This combo with the right ammo can shoot a 1" group at 100yds and can be had for $500.
Or if you want to keep a similar cost and trade accuracy for familiarity of platform, get a S&W 15-22 with appropriate optic, again a $500 solution and call it a day.
Since you mention that you rarely shoot beyond a 100M, I think this is the easiest and least expensive way to get your wife to shoot accurately and gauge her real interest in shooting. You can always buy that top end SPR later.
If you want to stay in the AR platform, a solid recce style AR with a good low to mid powered variable optic can take you a long way shooting wise or simply buy a good optic, ff rail, and better trigger for your 6720 is also a solid choice.
Eurodriver
11-19-16, 18:43
300m?
Get a 10.5" SBR and throw a T1 on it.
300m?
Get a 10.5" SBR and throw a T1 on it.
This. All day long.
Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwG-D0HjCBQ&list=PLJUaiRIEduNXoal2_PkBZi0vDCIcEPxUn
Much of it applies to the AR platform.
I would echo others with my 2 cents:
Quality trigger - lots of great ones out there. In addition to the excellent SSA-E already mentioned, Giessele also makes match versions of that trigger. Right one depends on application.
Free float barrel - I'd look at the ALG system, rock solid mount and great price.
Bipod - Harris with slotted legs is my preference. Other great choices as well.
Scope - If you are on a budget look closely at the fixed power SWFA Super Sniper scopes. The 10x scope is a classic and can be had with side focus for $400. Optics are top tier and construction is military grade.
What kind of accuracy do you want at 300yds? What will you be shooting at? How important is target I'd at that distance?
If your shooting 12" white plates at 300, the Colt with an aimpoint will be good. If your shooting Prarie dogs at 300yds, you'll want a mid range scope at least, and maybe a quality stainless barrel. It all depends on your use and expectations.
BrigandTwoFour
11-19-16, 22:16
No need to go nuts with high dollar stuff. A bone stock AR from a quality company will shoot way better than any new shooter is capable of themselves. Once you (or she) has gotten to the point of shooting up to the capability of the rifle, you will have burned out that first barrel and have a better grasp on what you really need/want.
In the meantime, after getting a quality rifle, spend your dollars on quality ammunition. A decent trigger is fine, but don't spring for one of the high-end high power ones just yet.
You need to define precision first, and what your expectations are. What is this "precision" rifle going to be used for?
Once you have that figured out, then you can start to put the rest together. A good optic, trigger and ammo can make even the most basic AR precise.
Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwG-D0HjCBQ&list=PLJUaiRIEduNXoal2_PkBZi0vDCIcEPxUn
His vids aee very good
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If you want 300 meters any rifle will do.
A 1 moa rifle at 300 meters is 3 inches add ammo flux say 4 inches.
You can use any hunting rifle, and most ar 15 rifles in 5.56.
A 10.5 sbr or pistol will work even with an aimpoint
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I've found that good Hand loads are the most important part of true precision shooting.
A good hand load can make a mediocre rifle shoot well.
556BlackRifle
11-20-16, 13:08
A Ruger precision rifle...
If you want an AR build you an 18-20 inch upper and throw optics on it.
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That's an excellent suggestion. (If the op's wife doesn't mind running a bolt gun.) Here's a great review of the Ruger Precision Gen II. I think I have enough ARs for now so this will likely be my next rifle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-0GtOHdXzg
ColtSeavers
11-20-16, 13:27
A Ruger precision rifle...
If you want an AR build you an 18-20 inch upper and throw optics on it.
This.
You need to define precision first, and what your expectations are. What is this "precision" rifle going to be used for?
Once you have that figured out, then you can start to put the rest together. A good optic, trigger and ammo can make even the most basic AR precise.
I don't think that I have a good answer to that question. For right now she's having fun just getting hits on a silhouette at 200M with iron sights and I'm happy that she seems to be taking a genuine interest in shooting sports. It sounds like I'll probably stick with Plan B and throw an optic and trigger on the 6720 maybe Cerakote it and gift it to her since I have a SR15 coming. We can probably talk about sub-MOA URGs when/if she can shoot to the full potential of the stock tube but I don't think that time is now. Thank you all for your advice, even if I ended up ignoring it.
Granted, when I say new I really do mean it. My wife wants to get in on the action but is leaning towards precision shooting out to 300M. Instead of running out and buying a high dollar MK12 upper I'm really only looking to get something that she can "grow into" as she progresses. Probably something more suitable than the 6720 loaded with M193 that she's shooting now. I've done a bit of reading and it looks like a match ammo, a BCM ELW upper and a Leupold Mark AR is the obvious answer, maybe add an ALG trigger to the mix. If I'm headed in the wrong direction or if I can get by with the Colt Lightweight, some glass and better ammo let me know. Either way, something needs to go under the x-mas tree for Mama besides the NES Classic.
I actually just built my first precision rifle today. I had similiar goals to you... I wanted something accurate but did not want to blow a ton of money. Now I do not have a ton of experience with AR's, but I have done a ton of research on building, I feel I got a pretty good value for what I spent. On the barrel, I went with a larue stealth 18" for $245. In the options area where you select what length/barrel nut/gas tube/etc there is the option for a MBT trigger for $99. Now I was initially planning on a G2S and for the months I spent shopping I ignored the larue trigger because it was $99.. and larue. Cheap and larue don't tend to mix. Anyways I finally did some searching on it and found reviews saying it was on par if not better than the SSA-E. So I bought it... just put it in today and this thing rocks. No creep, breaks like glass, and practically no overtravel. The trigger is usually $125 but if you buy the barrel (which at $245 w/ m4 ramps is a very good deal) it's $99.
Anyways I ended up building an upper with 18" stealth, BCM gunfighter charging handle, Rainier precision match bcg, aero M4E1 upper, odin works gas block (lines up perfect with the dimples on larue barrels) 15" aero keymod handguard for $630 dollars. I mated this with a PSA MOE lower I had laying around that cost me $200 after shipping/FFL fees. Dropped the trigger in that fotsr 99 and I have $930 in the rifle itself. That's what I would have spent on a comparable BCM upper alone and from what I've read larue makes a better barrel. For the optics I went with a 2.5-10x32 vortex viper PST which is supposed to be the best of the PST series and a very good deal for what you pay. Bought a bunch of Cabelas gift cards at 80 cents on the dollar and ordered it from there. Used active junky with that for 10% cash back though I'm not sure it's going to work with the gift cards. I read it did but it hasn't showed up in my balance yet though I just ordered it yesterday. For tools to build the upper all I needed was a magpul bev block I got for less than 40, some cheap punches, plus a torque wrench I already had and a crafstman vice I got for free with SYWR points. Building it is cake if you have the slightest mechanical inclenation, I was a little intimidated at first but there's really nothing to it (atleast with the aero enhanced uppers).
Figured I'd just share what I did. Like I said I have not that much experience with AR's so I am not going to tell you what to get but maybe this can give you some ideas. Just shop the sales http://schuylerarmsco.com/ often has good deals pretty regularly and excellent customer service and primary arms has regular 20% sales on geiselle stuff.
I hate when people don't ever post follow-ups so here's mine:
For political reasons I decided in early 2017 to go ahead and outfit the entire family with Colt's, they were cheap and available so I took advantage, the 6720 went to my youngest, my 6920 went to my oldest and I got a Colt CCU carbine for myself. My wife ended up with a 14.5" SOCOM profiled M4 barrel with a 13.5" URX4 put together by ADCO and PA 1-6x KISS and heavy OTM, basically a mini RECCE in concept. I sent her off to a 2 day handgun/carbine course for Mother's day... where she had a blast. Then she went off on another 2 day course with her friends from work. She recently upgraded herself to a PA Platinum 1-8x in an ADM Recon mount. She's happy with the gun's performance so far and is looking forward to getting more training and further developing her skills. I'm getting her a G2S for X-mas.
Lesson learned: The gun didn't really matter, her willingness to learn to shoot went alot further than the barrel profile... but the SOCOM is pretty f@*kin' good.
I'm not an expert and this is my experience. I drifted back to the AR 15 last year and so I decided to practice more "Practical Shooting" with it and hit targets hopefully out to 400 meters consistently. So I went and bought a Colt CCU upper and separate BCG from Brownell's and it has a Larue Tactical MBT-2 trigger in it. I have an ACOG with the ACSS reticle. Using Federal AE 223 55 gr.bulk ammo I can hit the 66 % steel silhouettes 95% at 200 meters and 90% at 300 meters. Yesterday was without a bipod but using a stuffed backpack and other bags. I'm waiting for another steel and try for 400 meters. I have 0 hits at 500 meters on the one the range has, must be the limits of the ammo and/or magnification. Anyway I get hits not groups, but still a lot of fun for the weekend. I also see she can hit with iron sights out to 200. Wow, she will do fine.
Certainly a scope with better magnification and better ammo will let you hit smaller targets at distance. I forgot to mention at 200 meters the ACOG was good enough for 5 inch plates.
I'd also second the CZ rimfire but I'd disagree with the Trainer model. It's accurate but scoping the rifle is more problematic with getting proper cheek weld and getting the 20 MOA scope base to stay put. The Iron sight base also limits the scopes you can place on it. Properly set up you can hit 2 1/2 inch to 5 inch targets up to 200 meters consistently with proper ammo and wind conditions.
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