View Full Version : Extraction: Expanse Upper
Extracting a loaded round from the chamber requires several pounds of pull to remove round from chamber. This occurs in every instance regardless of ammo type or state of cleanliness of upper parts. I noticed this fact the very first time I loaded chamber and then removed loaded round. After firing 400 rds, the event still occurs exactly as it did from the beginning. Otherwise, functioning is normal. The event does not occur in my Colt A2 from 1987. Lube is EWL applied generously. I checked this with the upper removed from lower and thus no other interference, and the result is the same. Does the upper have an issue, or should I worry about something else. Lower is S&W M&P15, which has been flawless.
Are you liberally applying lube to the chamber? If so, try without.
eightmillimeter
11-28-16, 01:35
Reloads or factory? I've had this happen when I didn't resize my brass enough.
Chamber and barrel are wiped with patches with patches to remove excess lube.
Factory ammo only. No marks on bullet or case when removed.
This does not surprise me, as the Expanse is not a true Colt. Multiple sources have claimed the Expanse has a fair number of Anderson and Anderson-like parts, and is assembled by Anderson or Anderson-like assemblers. I wouldn't touch one with a 10-foot long pole. Send it back.
Singlestack Wonder
11-28-16, 12:11
This does not surprise me, as the Expanse is not a true Colt. Multiple sources have claimed the Expanse has a fair number of Anderson and Anderson-like parts, and is assembled by Anderson or Anderson-like assemblers. I wouldn't touch one with a 10-foot long pole. Send it back.
This....
556BlackRifle
11-28-16, 12:48
This does not surprise me, as the Expanse is not a true Colt. Multiple sources have claimed the Expanse has a fair number of Anderson and Anderson-like parts, and is assembled by Anderson or Anderson-like assemblers. I wouldn't touch one with a 10-foot long pole. Send it back.
Do you have a source for this?
I'm the op and five minutes ago was on the phone with a Colt tech at the factory who said this: (1)no problem with what I described and that parts will wear in. (2)Expanse is made by them in their factory but not on the same line as 6920. Same parts except barrel. Bolt not marked so as to imply it came from 6920. (3)It's an entry level AR. (4)Since I bought mine online from someone who bought a whole unit and sold the upper as a separate part, then my upper is not covered by warranty.
What did I learn? No problem with difficult extraction of loaded round. The Expanse is made in house by Colt with Colt parts.
No matter how it's stated, described, or rationalized, the Expanse is not a weapon for the guy wanting a top tier rifle. Of course, I already knew that and have confessed elsewhere of the sin of not reading the fine print when I ordered the upper.
One other lesson: Colt's warranty does not always come with the product. My upper was considered second hand, which it obviously was with no complaint from me.
Wayne Dobbs
11-28-16, 13:04
Do you have a source for this?
The gun is not made by Colt, but under license by Bold Ideas, Breckinridge, TX. Some of the components come from Colt, but the gun is assembled and QC'd (or not) by non Colt operations. See my signature line for where I work.
Coal Dragger
11-28-16, 13:32
The gun is not made by Colt, but under license by Bold Ideas, Breckinridge, TX. Some of the components come from Colt, but the gun is assembled and QC'd (or not) by non Colt operations. See my signature line for where I work.
Slightly off topic, but do you have any insight into how the new Colt Combat Unit Carbines are as far as performance and longevity vs the 6920 line? Too soon to tell?
The gun is not made by Colt, but under license by Bold Ideas, Breckinridge, TX. Some of the components come from Colt, but the gun is assembled and QC'd (or not) by non Colt operations. See my signature line for where I work.
That's right, Bold Ideas, the manufacture of their competition line. That by itself does not inspire a lot of confidence...
I believe Anderson put together the Colt 6900 series rifles, which were quickly removed from the market...
556BlackRifle
11-28-16, 15:05
The gun is not made by Colt, but under license by Bold Ideas, Breckinridge, TX. Some of the components come from Colt, but the gun is assembled and QC'd (or not) by non Colt operations. See my signature line for where I work.
Thanks Wayne. No need to check your sig, your reputation precedes you.
Coal Dragger
11-28-16, 15:34
I understand Colt's desire to get entry level market share, but this strategy never seems to work out the way most companies want it to.
I'd like to see Colt focus on high quality products for serious use at competitive prices. Notice I said competitive, not low. Offer value for the $$$, and good quality. I think the new mid length carbine is a step in the right direction if Colt wants to grow market share while staying true to their reputation for quality carbines you can take out of the box, lube up, gas up, sight in, and use with no drama or hassles.
Wayne Dobbs
11-28-16, 16:50
I understand Colt's desire to get entry level market share, but this strategy never seems to work out the way most companies want it to.
I'd like to see Colt focus on high quality products for serious use at competitive prices. Notice I said competitive, not low. Offer value for the $$$, and good quality. I think the new mid length carbine is a step in the right direction if Colt wants to grow market share while staying true to their reputation for quality carbines you can take out of the box, lube up, gas up, sight in, and use with no drama or hassles.
Complete agreement...
Wayne, of course, is correct. I had the nicest conversation with Bold Ideas' tech supervisor who told me that BI has made 50,000 Expanses. The gentleman has been an AR shooter since 1966 and has a wealth of knowledge on AR history, who made what for whom, when they did it, and technical stuff that he's supposed to know. When I first talked with the COLT factory, I was not told about Bold Ideas so will give Wayne thanks for sharing the info. To Colt's credit, I didn't pin them down on the specific location. Not being too much of a dummy, I understand that I don't have a war rifle but do think that I have a good sporting rifle. We went over markings which showed that the barrel is one used in HBARs, upper receiver has the square denoting a Colt forging maker, and the bolt has the MPI letters engraved.
I learned that some people will buy an Expanse to get its lower receiver and bcg and will then substitute a cheaper bcg and sell the upper to an unsuspecting party. I bought my upper from Gunbroker and am relieved that I got all the right parts anyway.
The man I talked with is actually the senior person in charge of Q.C. He has asked me to send in the upper so he can examine it for his own benefit. He has not seen this complaint used to describe one of his rifles. One possibility is a very tight chamber neck or very tight headspace. He did say that they fire each rifle 5 times as part of their qc process. One thing that I remember about this person is that he is most enthusiastic about his work, and that in itself is refreshing. The rifle is aimed at that share of the market that Smith has had with the M&P Sport.
"He did say that they fire each rifle 5 times as part of their qc process"
.
So your upper meets the QC requirements of the manufacturer. Too bad their QC process doesn't include clearing an unfired round.
I'm the op and just now discovered the live round extraction issue. The extractor is stuck in the under tension position. I'll need to remove and inspect to determine the cause. Another Colt bolt was normal and comparing them side by side revealed the difference.
The gentleman from Bold Ideas emailed me at home at 7 pm and suggested that I remove the extractor and check spring. I did, and it appears that the spring was installed upside down. I reported this to him by email, and at 11:59 pm he emailed me back and said that he was mailing me the extractor assembly. Once I had several Smith .45 mags that all had the springs installed upside down. Technically the Expanse upper is not under warranty because of my source.
Since I have a sporting rifle, I've scoped it with a nice Burris and will soon go hog hunting.
Doc Safari
11-29-16, 09:28
I just hope Colt isn't cutting corners with other models.
Just when I thought I'd cut my collection down to nothing but Colts.....
Have to check the extraction on the expanses I bought to stick back for my boys.....
I would think that Colt will maintain integrity with its regular line. Competition is fierce, though, and some pd's have bought FN's and M&P's. Now that the rush has passed, business may slow down for everybody. I wonder if FN might lower AR prices to get its market share?
Nova, I think my event with the Colt bolt is most rare but checking never hurts.
I received the new extractor assembly. Installing it solved the difficult extraction of a live round. I learned that Bold receives the bolts from Colt already assembled. This was a fluke and is no indictment of Colt or anyone associated with them. My Expanse shoots better than I can hold. It sighted in easily. Horizontal impact corresponded to the scopes center(determined with bore sight device)and vertical adjustment was easily reached.
From suggestions here, I put a Colt H2 buffer and extra power Wolff spring in the Smith lower, which has worked perfectly so far. I have an excellent sporting rifle with the Expanse/Smith hybrid. Although I no longer have buyer's remorse, I still will buy a real 6920 in months to come and use the hybrid for purposes that I know it will accomplish: shooting hogs, plinking, and knocking around. I like it but am smart enough(just barely)NOT to assume that I have a battle rifle. Anyway, I may sell it to Eurodriver or the Fly man.
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