View Full Version : Are FSB becoming irrelevant?
Seemingly, more and more companies are offering standard free floated slim keymods on their rifles.
Are FSB guns becoming a thing of the past? I'm very much a fan of them. Just gauging opinions here.
I think they will eventually go away but not before the military quits ordering them. The same way the fixed carry handle receiver did.
I doubt it. Some folks like to keep it simple.
I don't think so. My two go to rifles both have a FSB on them. Something to be said for having a rugged back up sight and a solid steel FSB is about as rugged as they come.
I don't think so. My two go to rifles both have a FSB on them. Something to be said for having a rugged back up sight and a solid steel FSB is about as rugged as they come.
I agree
I don't think so. My two go to rifles both have a FSB on them. Something to be said for having a rugged back up sight and a solid steel FSB is about as rugged as they come.
'zactly - it all boils down to the intended role of the rifle, and the FSB will always be a great choice for a close quarters combat/service rifle. Sporting rifles don't need them and SPR type rifles may be better served with folding BUIS. Some are saying you don't need BUIS even for service rifles, but each and every rifle I own has iron sights - batteries fail, optics can break or get bent out of alignment, etc., so unless you have access to extra parts and tools within the constraints of your environment, IMO you need BUIS.
I love the robustness of a FSB.
I agree with you guys. I'm finishing a free floated rifle, which I've never had, and is currently my only one. Starting to acquire parts for a fixed carry handle rifle that's made of only used parts. Just a curious question
It is quite possible to have a free floated rail for accuracy and modularity AND a fixed FSB. My magnified optics guns have folding BUIS, but my zero mag RDS equipped guns all have fixed backup irons. Just sayin...
lawusmc0844
12-08-16, 12:26
My primary midlength rifle with DD Omega rail still has an FSB and even when I may soon have to replace the barrel I'm going to install an FSB on that too. And who doesn't like to mount a bayonet? Lol
If I had more money to play around I'd get a M4 clone as well, I already have 2 carry handles that need to see some use.
Both of mine have FSB and FF rail
I've built rifles in the past because I had a buffer spring, a rail and a flash hider lol
fallenromeo
12-08-16, 13:41
I know several guys who prefer the FSB to flip up sights. As long as that is a preference of many people, it will never go away
titsonritz
12-08-16, 13:43
Can you name a quality manufacturer that does not offer an AR with a FSB?
contax_shooter
12-08-16, 14:02
I've seen some dumb shit in the big Army, FSB's are virtually indestructible.
No. There will always be a place for sheer robustness.
My worst case scenario carbine will always retain a FSB.
I am not against nicky neat long handguards and all that but I believe in keeping a big, dumb hammer in the tool box.
No. There will always be a place for sheer robustness.
My worst case scenario carbine will always retain a FSB.
I am not against nicky neat long handguards and all that but I believe in keeping a big, dumb hammer in the tool box.
lol I like that. Kind of my point with the thread.
On the civilian side of the house, many complaints I hear are that the FSB gets in the way of shooting. That's because many people aren't being taught the proper way to use irons and red dots. Most people wouldn't believe how many uppers I have seen where the FSB was removed and the attempt was made to install a low pro gas block.
titsonritz
12-08-16, 16:23
Most people wouldn't believe how many uppers I have seen where the FSB was removed and the attempt was made to install a low pro gas block.
I don't get this, if you must have a low-pro gas block either shave down FSB or use a different barrel.
manbearpig
12-08-16, 16:38
Can you name a quality manufacturer that does not offer an AR with a FSB?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think KAC does.
Do not attempt to use logic in this situation.
I don't get this, if you must have a low-pro gas block either shave down FSB or use a different barrel.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think KAC does.
I believe you're correct.
To most of the civ side, the FSB is a nuisance to their 15"rail. There is a place for them. I guess that's what makes these rifles so great. You can change anything you want
As others have said, you can have the best of both worlds. My favorite rifle has a pinned factory FSB, and a 12.5" FF rail with a cutout for the FSB. It's also wearing a red dot in an absolute co-witness configuration. No issues with sight picture. I like having a ruggedly reliable iron sight. In the worst case scenario, with a halfway decent cheek weld, the FSB alone provides a perfectly adequate reference point at QCB ranges.
Nah, they're still very much around, if you know where to look. All the basic BCM uppers have them for sure.
My go-to rifle has one, and the carbine I'm putting together will have one as well.
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-08-16, 17:59
I LOVE the FSB. I wish Colt, DD, or BCM or similar made an upper with an integral A1 style rear sight at the back, but with a pica tinny rail in front of it---like an integral fixed rear BUIS. That would be the ultimate doomsday upper with an Aimpoint setup.
futurerider103
12-08-16, 18:04
I'm jumping on the bandwagon for the fsb. I'm getting ready to put together a 14.5 midlength with fsb and fixed carry handle
Nocalsocal
12-08-16, 18:22
I just got in a trade an excellent 14.5 upper with FSB. So easy and instictual to shoot. I find with my worsening astigmatism that I've gone full circle and back to irons. Future builds will all have a fsb.
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Are FSB becoming irrelevant? Not to this guy.http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161209/a845a0e4a54013f13c0620f49f8ec39f.jpg
Futurerider103, eat your heart out.
futurerider103
12-08-16, 19:43
I want some triangle grips for mine but that looks awesome. How's the sight picture compared generic buis on a flattop no fbs
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161209/032c96b69accacfa9b2e1dff6f1d00ce.jpg
I want some triangle grips for mine but that looks awesome. How's the sight picture compared generic buis on a flattop no fbs
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161209/75b246bcefae9c72856b525477722974.jpg
All I have to compare is an LMT rear sight with an A2 aperture on a M16a4 clone upper. Running a XS same plane rear aperture with a Blitzkrieg chevron front sight on the C7 upper 14.7" carbine. Not an apples to apples comparison, considering different setups and sight radius, but I really don't notice much of a difference.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161209/eac640d12babec8ef2d09408779abbf9.jpg
Obviously, the peripheral view is much better on the C7 carry handle sight.
Edited with better pic.
You guys are making me reconsider this full free floated bit and going FSB on this build
You guys are making me reconsider this full free floated bit and going FSB on this build
Its not like you can't have both.
http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah77/zackmarrs/20161127_103253_zpsyk4qnt8e.jpg (http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/zackmarrs/media/20161127_103253_zpsyk4qnt8e.jpg.html)
Dont have an optic picked out yet, but this still works
Its not like you can't have both.
http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah77/zackmarrs/20161127_103253_zpsyk4qnt8e.jpg (http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/zackmarrs/media/20161127_103253_zpsyk4qnt8e.jpg.html)
Dont have an optic picked out yet, but this still works
Sweet RAT stock. What's going on with the upper?
RetroRevolver77
12-08-16, 21:40
Its not like you can't have both.
http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah77/zackmarrs/20161127_103253_zpsyk4qnt8e.jpg (http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/zackmarrs/media/20161127_103253_zpsyk4qnt8e.jpg.html)
Dont have an optic picked out yet, but this still works
My favorite rail system. Had a few of those CAS V El's on my old LMT's.
cougar_guy04
12-08-16, 21:46
I don't think so. My two go to rifles both have a FSB on them. Something to be said for having a rugged back up sight and a solid steel FSB is about as rugged as they come.
Same here. They're not HSLD rifles, but they're solid and reliable.
You guys are making me reconsider this full free floated bit and going FSB on this build
You can have both. My main "go-to" is a franken-gun that has a BCM upper with a DD Omega X rail and FSB
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-MID-Upper-Receiver-Daniel-Defense-p/bcm-urg-mid%2016%20ddox9.htm
556BlackRifle
12-08-16, 22:41
I don't think so. My two go to rifles both have a FSB on them. Something to be said for having a rugged back up sight and a solid steel FSB is about as rugged as they come.
Amen brother. My thoughts exactly.
Sweet RAT stock. What's going on with the upper?
VLTOR CAS-V midlength, and thanks
I know several guys who prefer the FSB to flip up sights. As long as that is a preference of many people, it will never go away
Exactly. Until demand preferences change drastically, the FSB won't go anywhere. Simple Macro economics. And those demand preferences aren't changing anytime soon. Especially with MIL contracts. On top of that, an FSB gun with a knight's rail is way cheaper to produce than say a Block II M4A1 without a FSB. You can figure that out yourself with a factory 6920 with knights rail vs a DD M4A1, ceteris paribus.
Yeah sure commercially the FSB isn't as popular anymore because of some advances in tech, some clever marketing, and pictures of high speed dudes running no FSB rifles. But the commercial market doesn't dictate demand preferences when it comes to service oriented firearms. On top of that further, it being issued to regular infantry on a much grander scale I would think ease of use, cost and ruggedness is more paramount to the military than a FF rail with no FSB. On the opposite end I would think what the "high speed" dudes want and is deemed essential by them to complete their mission is more paramount than cost and ease of use.
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My favorite rail system. Had a few of those CAS V El's on my old LMT's.
I had a CAS once upon a time. My only complaint was it was relatively heavy.
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Fold it down, go to work. Need an iron, flip it up.
http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz105/Mbradders/IMG_5792_zps8d2792b9.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/2lih6kz.jpg
Outlander Systems
12-09-16, 08:58
Same here. My favorite RIS of all time. I just wish it was lighter.
I had a CAS once upon a time. My only complaint was it was relatively heavy.
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To add to the discussion, I decided free float is even superfluous on my go to rifles. It's beneficial to accuracy but at the same time, an awful lot of men have been shot a long way out with FSBs and non-free float barrels. I stuck the MI M-lok drop ins on both of mine and am more than happy with the performance. Course I'm not exactly Carlos Hathcock either so the degradation in my performance is probably minimal at worst.
My 6.8 coyote gun is free float and my 12.5 SBR is free float with no FSB, but neither one of those is my first choice if things go south. The BCM and/or Sionics outfitted as above are.
Same here. My favorite RIS of all time. I just wish it was lighter.
On one hand it was like the original modular rail. Then on the other that full length top rail limited how light they could make it. Always thought it would be great for optics with that top rail but never got to try it. Was too broke to afford an aimpoint back then lol...
I like K.I.S.S.
FSB is simple and rugged. It's not in the way when using a red dot, and it vanishes for the most part with a magnified optic over 3x.
For that matter, for general use, I am not a fan of free floating handguards either. The delta ring/end cap/drop in system is simple. And if i want to add a few items to to the front of the rifle, like a light, or grip, that can be accomplished with a set of magpul HG's on the cheap, or a drop in rail system for a few more bucks.
My one and only free float/lp gas block rifle.....my 308, is nothing but a range toy. If I have to grab something out of the safe to defend my self with, it's going to be a boring, plain old FSB equipped rifle, with nothing more than a red dot, angled fore grip, sling and a flash light on it.
titsonritz
12-09-16, 11:21
Do not attempt to use logic in this situation.
Right...what was I thinking. :sarcastic:
I would say they are unnecessary. I've pretty much gravitated to all flip-ups.
6 years ago I would have said how much more reliable a FSB was, but after constant work overseas with flip-ups and never needing them (because I use an Aimpoint), I'll probably never buy another barrel/AR with an FSB.
Rifleman_04
12-09-16, 14:33
Absolutely not....and I wish rail manufacturers would stop catering to gamers and start making 12" carbine fsb rails again.
Absolutely not....and I wish rail manufacturers would stop catering to gamers and start making 12" carbine fsb rails again.
I really like the FSP rails. You can always do like Sinister and cut holes out. I might do that the next time I need one.
lawusmc0844
12-09-16, 15:40
On the civilian side of the house, many complaints I hear are that the FSB gets in the way of shooting. That's because many people aren't being taught the proper way to use irons and red dots. Most people wouldn't believe how many uppers I have seen where the FSB was removed and the attempt was made to install a low pro gas block.
I've seen it too. With issued A4s and M4s, I never noticed the FSP through my ACOG. Even with a Aimpoint T1 on my FSB equipped AR, I the FSB doesn't bother me at all.
And I remember seeing a pic of a Marine's FSB stopping a Taliban's round, saving his life but I can't find it though. FSBs are tough...
Absolutely not....and I wish rail manufacturers would stop catering to gamers and start making 12" carbine fsb rails again.
I agree. And DD's Mk 18 RIS ii FSP is my other Dream Handguard.
I've broken rail mounted sights, and whacked my Aimpoint out of zero. REAL irons are critical to me. The other issue is that long handguards can slip on the nut and shift out of zero. I won't run a serious defense gun without a REAL, Steel FSB.
I agree. And DD's Mk 18 RIS ii FSP is my other Dream Handguard.
I've broken rail mounted sights, and whacked my Aimpoint out of zero. REAL irons are critical to me. The other issue is that long handguards can slip on the nut and shift out of zero. I won't run a serious defense gun without a REAL, Steel FSB.
If I could only own one rifle it would be a 11.5" with the RIS2 FSP.
I've been tempted to mill one of mine out but since hard to find as is I've held off.
Yep. The 11.5 Sionics reduced port with the RIS II FSP would be amazing.
Yep. The 11.5 Sionics reduced port with the RIS II FSP would be amazing.
I suppose I could hack one up.
I personally think that they are becoming more and more irrelevant in the mid to upper range. In the low end rifles it is still a cheap way to ship a rifle with iron sights.
That being said I don't see them going away. Just as fixed carry handle guns haven't. I also think that ar-15's have gone mainstream and you have a lot of people that want "clones" of military guns.
I personally like the look of the fsb although most of my guns have optics on them so they really don't get used. Still most of my ar-15's have the fsb on them. I do have a 16 inch middy a2 and a 20 inch a2 rifle for shooting irons.
Yep. The 11.5 Sionics reduced port with the RIS II FSP would be amazing.
You conned me into it. Gonna try it with lite 3 rail first if I can find one cheap enough.
Yep. The 11.5 Sionics reduced port with the RIS II FSP would be amazing.
Hmmm. I may have one to sell. Iraqgunz installed this one on one of my 6920's back in 2012 (the pic is that old). He said it was the biggest pain in the A$$ rails he had ever installed.
RIS II was DD and RAS was KAC right?... I can't keep this stuff straight.
42796
cougar_guy04
12-10-16, 09:58
Absolutely not....and I wish rail manufacturers would stop catering to gamers and start making 12" carbine fsb rails again.
I'm seriously pondering a C4 Midlength Cutout rail for one of my rifles.
cougar_guy04
12-10-16, 10:05
I LOVE the FSB. I wish Colt, DD, or BCM or similar made an upper with an integral A1 style rear sight at the back, but with a pica tinny rail in front of it---like an integral fixed rear BUIS. That would be the ultimate doomsday upper with an Aimpoint setup.
I think that this is the closest I've seen (came across this one looking for A1 uppers for something that's rattling around in my head right now):
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=279
Something like you're talking about would be amazing, I'd be in for 2-3 of them.
justin_247
12-10-16, 10:20
I agree. And DD's Mk 18 RIS ii FSP is my other Dream Handguard.
I've broken rail mounted sights, and whacked my Aimpoint out of zero. REAL irons are critical to me. The other issue is that long handguards can slip on the nut and shift out of zero. I won't run a serious defense gun without a REAL, Steel FSB.
I now question the DD Mk 18 RIS II FSP, since it has the same anti-rotation system as their Lite III / II / DDM4 rails. The anti-rotation tabs aren't snugly fitted to the upper, so the rail can still shift. Having six screws in the bolt up plate vs only four certainly helps reduce the likelihood a little, but it's still a concern of mine.
At this point, the only rails I think are viable are rails like the BCM KMR with a tab that fits snugly around the upper or rails like Noveske, Mega, and HK which actually fit into a hole drilled in the upper receiver.
I wish DD made an Omega rail with the profile of a DD Lite III rail. I'd run a "Dissipator" setup instead if I had that.
I like fixed front site posts. They make great low profile gas blocks after I hack them off.
I now question the DD Mk 18 RIS II FSP, since it has the same anti-rotation system as their Lite III / II / DDM4 rails. The anti-rotation tabs aren't snugly fitted to the upper, so the rail can still shift. Having six screws in the bolt up plate vs only four certainly helps reduce the likelihood a little, but it's still a concern of mine.
At this point, the only rails I think are viable are rails like the BCM KMR with a tab that fits snugly around the upper or rails like Noveske, Mega, and HK which actually fit into a hole drilled in the upper receiver.
I wish DD made an Omega rail with the profile of a DD Lite III rail. I'd run a "Dissipator" setup instead if I had that.
You like the Omega's attachment over the RIS II family? I've installed several of BOTH set ups, and greatly favor the RIS II. I've never beaten either too badly, but Just based on observation, I'd bank on the RIS II.
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-10-16, 16:01
This is my daily driver...so unsexy
https://flic.kr/p/NReQ7M
I like the FSB..helps to practice using iron sights at the range in case my RDS goes down..
NCGREENSWAMP13
12-10-16, 17:49
My primary midlength rifle with DD Omega rail still has an FSB and even when I may soon have to replace the barrel I'm going to install an FSB on that too. And who doesn't like to mount a bayonet? Lol
If I had more money to play around I'd get a M4 clone as well, I already have 2 carry handles that need to see some use.
Wanna get rid of one of those carry handles?
This is my daily driver...so unsexy
https://flic.kr/p/NReQ7M
That is sex. If I could only have one rifle: 6720, knights ras, aimpoint comp m4, buis, vcas sling. But today, I am starting my PCC build. A KISS PCC
jerrysimons
12-10-16, 19:31
Bomb proof:
14"/15" MEGA Wedge Lock 7075 rail with midlength FSB cut out. FSB and 12 o'clock or laser / light
If only
Rifleman_04
12-10-16, 20:31
I now question the DD Mk 18 RIS II FSP, since it has the same anti-rotation system as their Lite III / II / DDM4 rails. The anti-rotation tabs aren't snugly fitted to the upper, so the rail can still shift. Having six screws in the bolt up plate vs only four certainly helps reduce the likelihood a little, but it's still a concern of mine.
At this point, the only rails I think are viable are rails like the BCM KMR with a tab that fits snugly around the upper or rails like Noveske, Mega, and HK which actually fit into a hole drilled in the upper receiver.
I wish DD made an Omega rail with the profile of a DD Lite III rail. I'd run a "Dissipator" setup instead if I had that.
Ive never seen a DD RIS/Lite shift but I have seen a KMR twist even with the tabs. The KMR isn't even in the same class.
Anything made by a man can and will break with enough abuse, even the old fsb. Rails potentially shifting is just a fact of life.
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Rifleman_04
12-10-16, 20:56
Anything made by a man can and will break with enough abuse, even the old fsb. Rails potentially shifting is just a fact of life.
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That's exactly why I'll keep my steel fsb fastened securely to the barrel where it belongs.
That's exactly why I'll keep my steel fsb fastened securely to the barrel where it belongs.
Yep. Again anything can break even a fsb, but odds are it will take a lot more abuse to kill that hunk of steel than it would an aluminum rail.
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If you don't like the FSB, nice thing is you can hack em off and still have your gas block attached to your bbl in a much more robust fashion than a low-pro.
lawusmc0844
12-10-16, 23:51
Wanna get rid of one of those carry handles?
Lol still debating whether to sell one of them or not.
Coal Dragger
12-11-16, 00:15
I like having a FSB, my Colt M4A1 SOCOM II has the DD RIS II free float with the FSP cutout. For those concerned about the anti rotation properties of the attachment, I don't think it is as big a deal as it is made out to be. The 6 hex head screws that secure that rail are pretty damn robust. Now the DD Slim rail (keymod) on my DDM4 V11 PRO I can see the concern as those screws are fewer in number and individually smaller.
I for one would like to see some Keymod or M-LOK free float hand guards offered with FSP cutouts for carbine, mid length, and rifle length gas systems. Maybe a Geissele MK8 with a FSP cutout and a detachable bottom section to make installation possible on the barrel but working around the FSP. Just thinking out loud.
In the civilian market, yes. I doubt it will go away in the Military. I still have one AR with the A2 post and I believe it is the most solid front sight you can have on your rifle vs flip-ups.
Renegade04
12-11-16, 07:27
I tend to agree with many of you that the FSB will still be around for many years to come. It has been in use for over 50 years because it works. For a K.I.S.S. AR, it is vital. Even with the military, I do not see it going away for quite some time. Optics and flip-up BUISs can fail/break/fall off. A FSB will always provide a solid point of reference. That said, the civilian market has become enamored with optics and free-float handguards which has led to a lot of AR being built without FSBs. There are plenty more built with them. Different strokes for different folks as they say. Personally, I like old school ARs with FSBs. I have many of them. I have my share of AR without FSBs as well.
In the civilian market, yes. I doubt it will go away in the Military. I still have one AR with the A2 post and I believe it is the most solid front sight you can have on your rifle vs flip-ups.
I love my A2 post, I know it's not going anywhere and it works. I don't care about candy ass flip sights.
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justin_247
12-11-16, 08:10
You like the Omega's attachment over the RIS II family? I've installed several of BOTH set ups, and greatly favor the RIS II. I've never beaten either too badly, but Just based on observation, I'd bank on the RIS II.
With the FSB installed, it doesn't matter if it shifts slightly. But the RIS II is kind of fat.
Ive never seen a DD RIS/Lite shift but I have seen a KMR twist even with the tabs. The KMR isn't even in the same class.
There's video from AKOU of a factory installed Lite rail shifting.
Rifleman_04
12-11-16, 09:34
There's video from AKOU of a factory installed Lite rail shifting.
Yeah, I just watched that but that was their new DDM4 rail. Their new rails I've seen are pretty lame. 4 tiny bolts and they don't snug up to the receiver anymore. They just seem flimsy.
I do however stand by my statement about the RISII/Lite rails.
I like having a FSB, my Colt M4A1 SOCOM II has the DD RIS II free float with the FSP cutout. For those concerned about the anti rotation properties of the attachment, I don't think it is as big a deal as it is made out to be. The 6 hex head screws that secure that rail are pretty damn robust. Now the DD Slim rail (keymod) on my DDM4 V11 PRO I can see the concern as those screws are fewer in number and individually smaller.
I for one would like to see some Keymod or M-LOK free float hand guards offered with FSP cutouts for carbine, mid length, and rifle length gas systems. Maybe a Geissele MK8 with a FSP cutout and a detachable bottom section to make installation possible on the barrel but working around the FSP. Just thinking out loud.
Extended cutout mlok and keymod Rails would be nice
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Extended cutout mlok and keymod Rails would be nice
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Lol who has the money to hack one up and try it?!
Thanks for all of the input. I think I will be doing a FSB on my PCC. Even though it's not needed, I can't help but think it's the best option. I will probably bob cut a detachable carry handle and co witness a compm4 type red dot
bowman57_2
12-11-16, 10:28
There's video from AKOU of a factory installed Lite rail shifting.
Did you watch the retest after he put loctite on the bolts? It held up fine.
Rifleman_04
12-11-16, 10:34
Did you watch the retest after he put loctite on the bolts? It held up fine.
Meh. It should have held up the first time. That new design isn't as robust.
ncshooter18
12-11-16, 11:45
My go to carbine has an FSB and Magpul MOE handguards.
bowman57_2
12-11-16, 12:08
I think its a sufficent mounting system but sticking with the RIS II mount would have been a better idea.
justin_247
12-11-16, 12:30
Yeah, I just watched that but that was their new DDM4 rail. Their new rails I've seen are pretty lame. 4 tiny bolts and they don't snug up to the receiver anymore. They just seem flimsy.
I do however stand by my statement about the RISII/Lite rails.
OK, the four screws attachment method has been standard with DD since they brought out the Lite II in early 2013. As far as "snugging up" is concerned, neither the RIS II plate nor the original Lite rail plate "snug up" to the upper. The bolt up plate "will remain loose", as per their instructions, until the rail is attached, just like on the Lite II and III. All of the rails use the same system, and the instructions are all basically identical (see below). The only difference is the number of bolts.
RIS II: "Tighten the Daniel Defense RIS II™ barrel nut to 50 ft/lbs using the Daniel Defense RIS II™ barrel nut wrench. Bolt-Up™ plate will remain loose."
Lite: "Tighten the Daniel Defense AR15 Lite Rail™ barrel nut and torque to 50 ft/lbs using the Daniel Defense AR15 Lite Rail™ barrel nut wrench. Bolt-Up™ plate will remain loose."
Lite II: "Tighten the Bolt-Up™ System Barrel Nut and torque to 50 ft/lbs using the supplied Daniel Defense Bolt-Up™ System Barrel Nut Wrench. The Bolt-Up™ plate will remain loose."
Lite III: "Tighten the Bolt-Up System Barrel Nut and torque to 50 ft/lbs using the supplied Daniel Defense Bolt-Up System Barrel Nut Wrench. The Bolt-Up plate will remain loose."
I'm not saying it's a bad system, but there should be closer tolerances on the bolt-up plate's anti-rotation tabs so that they are more fitted to the receiver. And there has to be a better way to ensure the screws don't come loose, like applying blue Loctite.
Not trashing the system, just offering constructive criticism. It remains my favorite rail.
I just came across this thread. I will never give up my FSB AR's. I see that the modular hand guards are making huge inroads into the sport. I just can't fall in love with them. I really like the traditional style AR's with front sight bases. I'll never give them up.
kwg
Rifleman_04
12-11-16, 13:03
I know the bolt up plate stays loose. I'm talking about when the rail is bolted to the plate. The new design has a rather wide gap between the rail and the upper. The almost 10 year old 7" Lite rail on my LMT patrol sits right against the upper.
After a few not so great experiences with other rails the RISII/Lite is still my fav too...just not a fan of the new ones.
Lol who has the money to hack one up and try it?!
Thanks for all of the input. I think I will be doing a FSB on my PCC. Even though it's not needed, I can't help but think it's the best option. I will probably bob cut a detachable carry handle and co witness a compm4 type red dot
Not I, although I'd volunteer the services of my mill and its novice operator for anyone who wanted to try
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Not I, although I'd volunteer the services of my mill and its novice operator for anyone who wanted to try
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How far are you from Alexandria, VA?
How far are you from Alexandria, VA?
Hsv, AL. Just a short drive lol
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Hsv, AL. Just a short drive lol
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Damn. The nova3930 threw me lol
Hsv, AL. Just a short drive lol
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Hour and half from me lol
Damn. The nova3930 threw me lol
I take work trips to chantilly some times but its been a few months since I've been up that direction.
After reading all of this, I amcannibalizing my rifle that I bought for parts only, and making a a2 carry handle mid length for a KIsS and using the remaining stuff on a 9mm carbine. Thanks guys!
Even APs can fail. If your front sight is on a rail, it's subject to movement. Especially under conditions that might gak your aimpoint. Give me a fixed front sight base on a serious gun
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I just came across this thread. I will never give up my FSB AR's. I see that the modular hand guards are making huge inroads into the sport. I just can't fall in love with them. I really like the traditional style AR's with front sight bases. I'll never give them up.
kwg
DON'T give em up! My FSP 12 may be a dinosaur, but it's strong, light, has a crap ton of rail space, gives me access to my FSB, and allows 12 O'clock light positioning.
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My finished FSB project. Just got the rail today.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/trixiebud/20161212_165309_zpshatsdbrd.jpg
Outlander Systems
12-12-16, 18:41
Brosef, that would be cool if FSBs weren't totally irrelevant.
:dirol:
My finished FSB project. Just got the rail today.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/trixiebud/20161212_165309_zpshatsdbrd.jpg
Brosef, that would be cool if FSBs weren't totally irrelevant.
:dirol:
They're deplorable too. :)
Outlander Systems
12-12-16, 19:08
Well, played, Sir.
Slick carbine, by the way. That's pretty damned close to what I'd consider ideal.
My finished FSB project. Just got the rail today.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/trixiebud/20161212_165309_zpshatsdbrd.jpg
Damn that thing is sexy. Which Geissele rail is that? How much of a gap is there between the rail and the front handguard cap?
Looks like MK4 I think. I thought about building one just like that, but ending up getting a deal on a C4 and figured I didn't want to **** with removing FSB pins again.
Geissele MK4 rail, 7 inch.
titsonritz
12-13-16, 10:29
Geissele MK4 rail, 7 inch.
Almost like it was meant to set behind those irrelevant FSB's.
Geissele MK4 rail, 7 inch.
No middie love :(
Damn that thing is sexy. Which Geissele rail is that? How much of a gap is there between the rail and the front handguard cap?
1/8" approximately. It'd look goofy with the cap removed.
http://i.imgur.com/ZgDRxGA.jpg?1
Wonder if that setup would work on a Middy? Cuz that does look slick, although I think I'd go with the mark 8 myself....
Wonder if that setup would work on a Middy? Cuz that does look slick, although I think I'd go with the mark 8 myself....
I needed the pic rails for my gear sector pieces. I'd be thrilled if it were a full quad rail since the profile is right. Perfection, for me, would be removal of the dopey QD holes, lengthen the rail to the FSB, and make it full quad. But I still am happy with it as it is.
Moonlight Again
12-13-16, 19:22
markm, that is perhaps the most perfect little SBR (by my lights, opinions, preferences and prejudices) that I have ever seen. Now if only it didn't have that fehshugganah forward assist!
I needed the pic rails for my gear sector pieces. I'd be thrilled if it were a full quad rail since the profile is right. Perfection, for me, would be removal of the dopey QD holes, lengthen the rail to the FSB, and make it full quad. But I still am happy with it as it is.
Understand. All a matter of what pieces you have on hand. Outside of a thorntail on the top rail and a finger stop I run mostly slick so the side and bottom rail estate I need is limited.
Mid gas is what? 9" or so? Next rail length up is 9.5". If it worked it would be close. I got burned last time I played on the razors edge of clearance so I'll let someone else try it.
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Mrgunsngear
12-13-16, 19:50
1/8" approximately. It'd look goofy with the cap removed.
http://i.imgur.com/ZgDRxGA.jpg?1
I think it still looks good.
I think it still looks good.
Maybe not THAT bad. But it would drive me nuts... and the cap does no harm, so I ran it on mine. The capless pics above are from Geiselle (posted on ARF)
You will have about 2 1/4" inches of space from the rail to the FSB. You need a rail that is around 8 7/8" inches or so to fit without the Whale Gap.
Wonder if that setup would work on a Middy? Cuz that does look slick, although I think I'd go with the mark 8 myself....
You will have about 2 1/4" inches of space from the rail to the FSB. You need a rail that is around 8 7/8" inches or so to fit without the Whale Gap.
Yeah I wasn't really clear. Was thinking about the next rail size up. 9.5 being > 8.875 every day of the week it's a no go :(
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I needed the pic rails for my gear sector pieces. I'd be thrilled if it were a full quad rail since the profile is right. Perfection, for me, would be removal of the dopey QD holes, lengthen the rail to the FSB, and make it full quad. But I still am happy with it as it is.
Ive heard rumors that Geissele is working on a quad rail.
What red dot mount is that?
My finished FSB project. Just got the rail today.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/trixiebud/20161212_165309_zpshatsdbrd.jpg
It's a Wilcox mount. It's not QD, but I like it. All the QD options I look at just don't seem to have as wide a grip on the Aimpoint or Rail.
It's a Wilcox mount. It's not QD, but I like it. All the QD options I look at just don't seem to have as wide a grip on the Aimpoint or Rail.
I don't need QD so not a big deal. Also not sure that I need the cantilever that many have.
Have you had it off and on much? Curious about how it re-zeros?
I don't need QD so not a big deal. Also not sure that I need the cantilever that many have.
Have you had it off and on much? Curious about how it re-zeros?
Seems to re-zero pretty good. But I've only had it off a few times. Brownells sells them. My pic makes is look brownish.. but it doesn't look that way in person.
I needed the pic rails for my gear sector pieces. I'd be thrilled if it were a full quad rail since the profile is right. Perfection, for me, would be removal of the dopey QD holes, lengthen the rail to the FSB, and make it full quad. But I still am happy with it as it is.
Like the Daniel Defense or the Centurion that was in stock yesterday?
Like the Daniel Defense or the Centurion that was in stock yesterday?
DD is over $100 more. I was eyeballing the DD Lite 3 for several days... but couldn't justify $318 for a simple 7 inch rail. Centurion is nice ($20 more than the Geissele), but has that tall bottom rail. The profile is no where near as bad as the Omega, but close. I have one centurion rail, and it's pretty good. If centurion shortened up the bottom rail, I'd run them on many of my guns. If I didn't find this rail, I'd probably have settled for a Centurion.
42877
Stickman's pic with centurion
42878
My 11.5 with Daniel defense
Irrelevant? No. Not in fashion? Perhaps. I have a couple guns with FSBs I'd like to throw a 12" cutout MLOK rail on one but they seem to be few and far between. The RISII FSP I had was too heavy to put on a pencil barrel and I didn't want to hack a rail up.
42878
My 11.5 with Daniel defense
I like it. Very nice setup.
Since everyone else is posting pictures. My current preferred setup on a BCM and Sionics
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161215/1e2bac054ce4e8284978cf879d19bf2b.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161215/585f874585e4db8132338f844b053a67.jpg
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Moonlight Again
12-15-16, 08:54
Irrelevant? No. Not in fashion? Perhaps. I have a couple guns with FSBs I'd like to throw a 12" cutout MLOK rail on one but they seem to be few and far between. The RISII FSP I had was too heavy to put on a pencil barrel and I didn't want to hack a rail up.
What this guy said!
I've got a 6920 that I used for patrol for a few years that's now just a back-up gun. It's got the centurian 12" fsp rail and aimpoint pro. Now I'm wanting to make it a KISS rifle and ditch the aimpoint for a carry handle.
42877
Stickman's pic with centurion
I like that rail a lot. I might have bought one if I'd found one in stock.
Digital_Damage
12-15-16, 16:51
despite the nostalgia crew, yes the FSB is a dinosaur. No point in having one now.
despite the nostalgia crew, yes the FSB is a dinosaur. No point in having one now.
The point is that there are NO... NONE... Not one single alternative that is even 1/4 as strong as the forged, heat treated FSB. Rail mounted sights are cheap garbage in comparison. I do run some rail mounted sights, mind you. But I know their limitations.
Now some guys simply run NO irons at all. But after a small fall knocked my Aimpoint 10 plus MOA out of zero... I keep real sights as a back up.
I like that rail a lot. I might have bought one if I'd found one in stock.
Centurion had them back in as of a couple of days ago. A couple of months too late for me unless I can find a reason to buy another rail.
Centurion had them back in as of a couple of days ago. A couple of months too late for me unless I can find a reason to buy another rail.
I definitely missed that email notification apparently.
Month said they'd be having more runs.
Moonlight Again
12-15-16, 19:26
despite the nostalgia crew, yes the FSB is a dinosaur. No point in having one now.
Burn the heretic! Purge his heresy with cleansing fire!
A couple of caveats. I'm waiting for my first stamp to hit, and the SBR will have a low pro gas block and a rail. And to the extent that you don't need iron sights, the FSB is a dinosaur . . . but if you say the FSB is a dinosaur, you're really saying iron sights are a dinosaur. Like markm pointed out, anything other than the FSB is a half-ass approximation at best.
FSB has put a helluva lot of rounds on a lotta targets in the last 50+ years despite adverse conditions and abuse.
Optics like an aimpoint are rugged, but there's no physical way possible to make them as rugged as a solid hunk of forged steel.
That said this thread has me thinking about swapping my flip up rears for fixed to get another measure of reliability.
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I definitely missed that email notification apparently.
Month said they'd be having more runs.
Just looked at the website, they have 18 in stick right now. $280.
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