View Full Version : Discuss 9mm AR carbine as a go to
I may scrap the project rifle I have and start filling up my parts bin with what I may take off.
How practical is a 9mm rifle? Intended use is training and trunk or truck gun. I'd like to do something budget friendly but still run. What I need is a barrel, bcg, adapter blocks and mags.
Should I run a Colt mag setup or hold out for a glock 9mm lower?
Are these reliable or only a novelty?
Money is an issue right now but I fee like I'd be at the range more often with 9mm than 223 due to cost.
Discuss please!
Coming from someone who wants a 9mm carbine or 9mm AR pistol for a "truck gun/range toy" I don't see the advantages over a .223.
I see the initial build cost advantage going to the standard AR pattern in .223 for me. (mags and plenty of spare parts around here somewhere)
Ballistically and lethality gives a strong edge to .223.
Ammo cost at $.20 per 9mm and $.30 per .223 is $100 per thousand rounds. Personally 1000 rounds a year through this setup is something I probably won't do regularly so the savings becomes a moot point.
Coming from someone who wants a 9mm carbine or 9mm AR pistol for a "truck gun/range toy" I don't see the advantages over a .223.
I see the initial build cost advantage going to the standard AR pattern in .223 for me. (mags and plenty of spare parts around here somewhere)
Ballistically and lethality gives a strong edge to .223.
Ammo cost at $.20 per 9mm and $.30 per .223 is $100 per thousand rounds. Personally 1000 rounds a year through this setup is something I probably won't do regularly so the savings becomes a moot point.
All valid points. My buddy is reloading 9mm at .02/rd. But again that's not me
I could see how that would change things.
Kinda talking out thoughts in my head trying to decide myself.
Sent via telegraph with the same fingers I use to sip whiskey
All valid points. My buddy is reloading 9mm at .02/rd. But again that's not me
Is he willing to ship. Dang that's outstanding.
The AR9 for me is a great build for HD in pistol or SBR. The rifles are good for competition and training. I ran a pistol with 8" barrel it's not as much flip on the muzzle. I used PSA colt mags that were always snug and I liked the bolt staying back on the last round fired. Metalform are good to go as well.
Tag. I was actually debating on a 9 carbine
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I believe he's at like .06 using factory fmj, but .02 for cast
Tag. I was actually debating on a 9 carbine
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I'm thinking light, simple and cheap. Willing to bet I can part out my rifle and have enough to build it. Considering with a FSB as well.
I'm thinking light, simple and cheap. .
I was too but I also want it functional. Im not the builder type. I was thinking CZ Scorpion but it's just an idea I'm tossing around
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Is he willing to ship. Dang that's outstanding.
The AR9 for me is a great build for HD in pistol or SBR. The rifles are good for competition and training. I ran a pistol with 8" barrel it's not as much flip on the muzzle. I used PSA colt mags that were always snug and I liked the bolt staying back on the last round fired. Metalform are good to go as well.
the last time i purchased them, psa colt mags were metalform mags but rebranded by psa.
with a quality mag block (if you go that route versus a dedicated lower), quality barrel and bcg - a 9mm AR can be a very reliable setup.
it's not as sexy as a roller-locking or piston setup since it's direct blowback, but it's simple and effective.
i shoot mine suppressed which adds to the amount of cleanup necessary afterwards. it also brings a smile to my face every time i shoot it.
with a quality mag block (if you go that route versus a dedicated lower), quality barrel and bcg - a 9mm AR can be a very reliable setup.
it's not as sexy as a roller-locking or piston setup since it's direct blowback, but it's simple and effective.
i shoot mine suppressed which adds to the amount of cleanup necessary afterwards. it also brings a smile to my face every time i shoot it.
Looking at a KAK block. What's the 411 on buffer spring, buffer, and hammer?
I wonder how 147gr +p fly down 16" barrels
I think the big thing with 9mm is when you have it in SBR form. It can be a nice little package and has some advantages over very short 5.56 guns. As far as reliable the colt guns are, others had a reputation of being less but a lot more are in the game now. I remember years ago cheap mags and bad magblocks were where most of the issues were but I honestly haven't kept up with it.
Personally though I think a sig mpx is a good option if you want a gun with ar style controls. That's what I ended up with.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/924/cidV9Z.jpg
If you want cheap practice, get a S&W M&P 15-22. If you want a 9mm carbine, Scorpion or MPX are much better options IMO. The only time I'd see a benefit of an AR9 is if you got one that worked with your handgun mags like Glocks.
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If you want cheap practice, get a S&W M&P 15-22. If you want a 9mm carbine, Scorpion or MPX are much better options IMO. The only time I'd see a benefit of an AR9 is if you got one that worked with your handgun mags like Glocks.
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Mine cost me way more because I got the Glock mag version. I had sold my last Glock years ago and suddenly I'm stocking Glock mags again. Might as well buy another Glock then...lol And here's another Glock 19 added to the club just because I have an abundance of mags for it now...
But I do like mine, it's been fun so far. Not sure what I'll use mine for besides plinking. I've considered using it in my next class but that all depends on if my barrel extension comes in soon. I figure I'm 3 months away on my suppressor being cleared...
Looking at a KAK block. What's the 411 on buffer spring, buffer, and hammer?
I wonder how 147gr +p fly down 16" barrels
i was burned by a cheaper mag block on an earlier build so i went with the hahn bottom insert magwell that has bolt hold open. i have no experience with the kak block so it may be fine. i use a cmmg 9mm buffer and a standard carbine spring. my bolt carrier is ramped so i use a standard hammer.
also, mines an sbr with a 5.5" barrel. 147gr (non +p) stays subsonic through my can.
the beauty of this setup is that i can swap the upper and shoot 5.56, 300, etc. and i only paid one tax stamp on the lower.
you can't do this with the sig mpx (though, i want one of those too!), or a dedicated colt/glock lower. you have to use the removable mag block, ramped bolt/standard hammer, and swap out the buffer to go to a other calibered uppers.
and before someone says it - yes i do realize that the hahn block is the cost of a tax stamp. but i did receive it from brownells in five days vs. five months on the atf stamp.
I wish I could find a glock mag insert.
Maybe I'll part out this rifle and use what I can and be decent about a carbine build.
Compare the recoil to a 223?
I wish I could find a glock mag insert.
Maybe I'll part out this rifle and use what I can and be decent about a carbine build.
Compare the recoil to a 223?
Me too on the glock insert. I don't think they are made because I haven't seen one while browsing the interwebz. If anyone knows of a mfg/seller of one, please let us know!
Recoil is light like with .223 but it's different because the powder burns differently from a pistol round and the bullet moves at a slower speed. It's more of a "push" than a "snap" like a rifle round. That's a subjective description for sure.
A 9mm carbine made a lot of sense for me because I had a carbine suppressor laying around. If I were not in the NFA game with this can and a SBR, I'm not sure that I would see the same value in having it around other than a range toy.
For what it's worth, mine has been perfectly reliable with the exception of some underpowered off-brand 115gr ammo. All 147gr and name brand 115-125 grain have been 100%.
I can post a parts list if anyone is interested.
How practical is a 9mm rifle? Intended use is training and trunk or truck gun. I'd like to do something budget friendly but still run. What I need is a barrel, bcg, adapter blocks and mags.
Discuss please!
The PCC is making a comeback, due to service gun swaps back into 9mm, rise in popularity in the gun games, and ever expanding options for the system. And while not widespread, there's a bit of displacement of .223/5.56 carbines for PCCs. All that's old is new again.
I like the PCC in gun games as a training analog to .223/5.56 carbine use elsewhere.
All valid points. My buddy is reloading 9mm at .02/rd. But again that's not me
The 9mm reloads I see on ranges at that price point sometimes work, but mostly belch clouds of black smoke between stoppages. How are your buddy's?
I will say this on PCC, we have one elite unit in the IDF, that uses 9mm M16 for when they need to use a suppressed weapon.
I also carried either a mini or micro Uzi sometimes off duty or for certain missions.
Does it have the stopping power of a 5.56 rifle, of course not but I never worried about it. It was a lot better going to a wedding with my micro Uzi in a bag that a rifle over my shoulder.
Not sure how his cast stuff runs, but the fmjs run fine no stopages. Really torn on how I want to build this. I'd like to do a 16" light profile with a slim 7" tube, and a FSB or a flip up "gas block" and buis and maybe a 3x optic, and plain 6 position.
The whole idea is Light weight and streamlined. id like to not notice it's even on my back. Could consider a side folding adapter as well. Man, that would be sweet on a 10" setup too. Maybe I'll look into sbr this receiver.
I believe he's at like .06 using factory fmj, but .02 for cast
I don't see how that's really possible. the cheapest primers I have come across are 2.5 cents, then another penny for the powder. I guess if he's melting and casting lead... I'm about 9-11 cents per round.
On the 9mm AR: I have a Rock River mag block that takes Colt SMG magazines. I put together a conversion for my SBR that ran $600 (including mags) plus the lower, optic and the silencer I sometime run. This set up has proven 100% reliable, but not without issues. Getting the magazines in the mag well is not as ergonomic as a .223 AR or an M&P 15-22.
The mag well is very tight and without much funneling with that block in it. The feed lips push up against the extractor, so seating the magazine requires a very firm slam into place, but at the same time it is difficult to to force the mag in with much momentum because of the clearance of the magazine and the well. I am still working on this. I have started experimenting with radiusing all the sharp edges on the magazines, as well as very slightly trimming the left rear shoulder of the magazine where it makes contact with the ejector.
As for the build; I started with my SBR build that I have had for a few years. 4.5 # POF drop in single stage trigger, 5.5 oz 9mm buffer, standard carbine spring, and JP 9mm bolt, 11" Ballistic Advantage barrel with 1/2x28 threaded muzzle. This combination with some handloads that my pistol did not care for (too soft-- about 120 power factor in pistol) shoots soft, accurate and reliable. My wife and a friend have both used it in a USPSA match, I have used it in a falling steel match. So about 500 rounds in competition and about 800 rounds in testing and practice without a failure aside from the magazine falling out twice during matches due to not being properly seated.
So as to the original question: yes these can be practical AND reliable. With the right ammo, it could make a decent truck or defense gun. The Rock river block has worked from the very start for me. The Hahn has good reviews as well. I would make sure to get one that locks the bolt open. As for economy, parts are fairly available and reasonably priced. The Glock mag types require special, expensive uppers to lock the bolt open (but I think PSA is now making a lower with LRBHO in it).
If you are not going to use a lower you already own, then I would seriously consider buying a 9mm lower--they cost about the same as a good mag block. For the Colt pattern rifles, Metalform has the best reputation for reliability and can be had very cheaply. If you are starting with a new build and getting a 9mm lower, it is a toss up as to which is better; Glock or Colt pattern. I have shot a couple Glock pattern rifles and reloads may be a little easier, but they insert at a funny angle...
The .02/rd is using the bullet he cast himself. He goes fishing for brass a few times a month and has a 5 gallon bucket full of 9mm range brass. He has bought primers and powder used and has also tracked his cost. It's a game to him. We are both looking at PCC for the simple fact of it being more fun and nearly as economical as .22lr
$.02/rd doesn't even cover the cost of primers in most cases. I've been finding good deals on CCI 500 primers at $30/1000, which would be $.03/rd. I use TiteGroup in a light charge of 3.6gr, yielding 1,945 loads per pound, there's another $.01. I know there are cheaper powders out there. I got into a group buy on FMJs a couple years ago at $75/1000. Most ranges don't let you police others' brass, and charge $30-40 for a bucket of mixed brass. I'm in to my mouse fart 9mm loads at $.12/rd. I'd love to see a cost breakdown on your buddy's load so I can shave a little dough off my own loads.
Yeah those reload costs don't add up at all. I've got tons of free 9mm brass but my primer cost alone puts me in the 2-3 cent range. And I buy 10k at a time to get the cheapest price.
Coming from someone who wants a 9mm carbine or 9mm AR pistol for a "truck gun/range toy" I don't see the advantages over a .223.
I see the initial build cost advantage going to the standard AR pattern in .223 for me. (mags and plenty of spare parts around here somewhere)
Ballistically and lethality gives a strong edge to .223.
Ammo cost at $.20 per 9mm and $.30 per .223 is $100 per thousand rounds. Personally 1000 rounds a year through this setup is something I probably won't do regularly so the savings becomes a moot point.
What he said.
Pretty much right there why I ditched my plans for a 9MM pistol built, and went with 5.56.
I already have ammo and mags, spare parts, and frankly if I'm going to anything aside a handgun there needs to be some better ballistic advantages. Not to mention, I had planned for a Glock-dedicated lower, and a couple other "special" features that, once added up, put it to close in price to a 5.56 pistol build to matter on the budget side of things.
Now..... if NFA wasn't a thing and I could have a no-shit suppressed subgun, it may be a different story...
A little late to the party, but I'll throw in my $0.02.
To the OP, I'm not sure what "go-to" means to you, but for me, my "go-to" guns are those that I'm most likely to pick up to take to the range. In my case, I have a 16" .22 and an 4.5" 9mm and suppressor. I can't remember the last time I shot the .22. The 9mm is just much more enjoyable. It's cheaper to shoot than my 5.56 or 300BLK and I don't have to carry different ammo when I head to the range with my 9mm pistol. Clearly it won't perform like a 5.56, but mine has been reliable and always puts a smile on my face. No opinion on the "truck gun" aspect. I drive a Jeep and leaving a gun in it doesn't sit well with me, especially a suppressed SBR.
I have a Wilson Combat AR9 pistol with an 8" barrel.
I bought it because I have been wanting a 9mm AR for some time and felt 100% confident that one from WC would run with or without a can.
It is a LOT of fun on the range, zeroed at 25 yards making hits on 8" steel at 100 is no effort.
I am running the 135g Hornady Critical Duty ammo with it and have killed several hogs at 30 yards or so.
Tested it at night with cans and with the WC flashhider that came with it, zero muzzle flash with a can and almost none with the WC flash hider
It has been 100% reliable and sits beside my bed at night.
It's a lot less noise/concussion than my 14.5" 556 and given the terminal performance I have seen on hogs I feel very confident in it at close range.
It fits nice in the door panel of my truck and I used it for an out of town trip last weekend with the family.
AlphaTango23
03-19-17, 13:48
I just ordered a AR9 build for $800, but I went with nice stuff. I could have gone WAY more budget for probably $550-600.
PSA Glock lowers are around $120. Then you can get any LPK for $50 or so.
AR9s can be cheaply built, not as cheap as a 5.56, but close, all you need is a AR9 lower, 9mm barrel, 9mm comp, and a 9mm BCG. You can use AR15 parts for everything else.
MountainRaven
03-28-17, 23:38
Coming from someone who wants a 9mm carbine or 9mm AR pistol for a "truck gun/range toy" I don't see the advantages over a .223.
I see the initial build cost advantage going to the standard AR pattern in .223 for me. (mags and plenty of spare parts around here somewhere)
Ballistically and lethality gives a strong edge to .223.
Ammo cost at $.20 per 9mm and $.30 per .223 is $100 per thousand rounds. Personally 1000 rounds a year through this setup is something I probably won't do regularly so the savings becomes a moot point.
Try shooting them in the dark, in your house, without ear pro.
IMHO... you could easily use a 9mm Carbine as a goto firearm... but remember, the 9mm, even out of a 16" barrel still has the trajectory ( basically ) of a 22LR round.
So right around 100yds is ( give or take 30yds ) it starts to drop fast... that is a limitation to me.
Muzzle blast from a 16" is so little that the Lantac brake made no noticeable difference in my 9mm carbine. Not enough gas to utilize it... again in a 16" barrel..( very curious if shorter barrels actually work better with that brake )
Also, some 9mm AR's can be fussy with SD ammo... like the wide HP on a HST 147gr.
I ended up polishing the feed ramps to get reliable HP feeding.
And as for more velocity from the longer barrel.... not really... just not enough slow powder in a 9mm to boost its speed much over a 5"ish barrel.
You get some... but not like a .357 Magnum does out of a 16" barrel.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html
The 147gr hold their speed best, ( at 100yds ) and also show the least added velocity from a 16" barrel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oazgLCWt_II
In a world where people will make the argument for handguns as a go-to home defense gun, in a world where people will make the argument for pump action shotguns as a go-to home defense gun, the PCC or pseudo-subgun is absolutely a viable go-to gun.
And as Yoni has stated, it has capabilities that a rifle-caliber, full-size carbine or rifle doesn't have: The pseudo-subgun in your briefcase is better than the carbine you left at home or in your car.
AlphaTango23
03-28-17, 23:59
Great video!
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For a 9mm rifle, an AR does work well... however, there are other options. Are they better? Depends on what you are looking for.
Personally, my only issue going 9mm would be if you were planning on suppressing it... well, that and weight/finickiness of a blowback system. I was looking at building a pistol caliber AR for a ex of mine, who had a stroke a few years prior... and had terrible dexterity with her weak (left) side. The weight is noticeable, but you also need to figure out a buffer weight for the round you are shooting. Can it work with most of the spectrum of 9mm loads? Probably... but odd loadings might be an issue with function (at least how it was explained to me).
You can do D/I AR in pistol calibers... just not 9mm. The gas port is would be so close to the chamber that the jacket will break up and debris will make its way into the bolt group. I went with a .45, built by Macon Armory.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc61/Screwball216/DB96C319-1902-4A80-B7C9-5A05FE8C05DC_zpsnf8qapxz.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc61/Screwball216/E6401E6F-1987-4111-BD80-01B7B517E442_zps0ssbnslt.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc61/Screwball216/27CA5F52-0FDA-444F-8463-ADA87E642082_zpsfq9m7cex.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc61/Screwball216/0A97046E-F0E7-4415-8244-182BA4A39DEC_zpsjoymvmd5.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc61/Screwball216/EAD12C3B-B617-437E-9403-9F2B71981FBD_zpssndx1tik.jpg
I got this carbine down to under seven pounds. Used Macon Armory's H&K USC magazine adapter currently, main due to current NJ law. Might be moving in the next year or so, so I'll pick up some of Macon's new magazines... which are 20 rounders, and fit in a standard AR magazine well. I have the adapter for them already.
Nice. I like the profile of that gun much more than the Glock lower 9mm setups.
This thread needs more PCC AR gun porn.
My contribution, a Colt pattern 4.5" 9mm:
http://wct097.com/wt/guns/sbr/9mm/9mm-4.5-1.jpg
http://wct097.com/wt/guns/sbr/9mm/9mm-4.5-2.jpg
http://wct097.com/wt/guns/sbr/9mm/9mm-4.5-3.jpg
http://wct097.com/wt/guns/sbr/9mm/9mm-4.5-4.jpg
And the stealth toolbox case I'm working on (waiting on foam), with my new SL-K stock:
http://wct097.com/wt/guns/rigid-sbr-glock-1.jpg
I have built a few 9mm ARs, and currently have one. My primary purpose was cheaper ammoand safer to shoot at steel <50 yards, while still having more realistic recoil than a .22 LR (although still not the same).
I also reload, and not having to worry about trimming, swaging primer pockets, etc. and just loading 9mm is very appealing from both a time and cost perspective. I was skeptical about the .02/round cost, unless he bought components a LONG time ago. I still find it hard to believe. At current prices, I am loading 9mm for about 10-11 cents a round. That, for me, is a significant cost savings over .223.
I also have drills I like doing with steel, and having the ability to set them up as close as 7-10 yards is nice. I don't have any intention of using it as anything other than a range gun, but if I had to, I could load it up with 147 HSTs and put it to work. Yes a 5.56 will be much better at pretty much everything, but if needed it could be a useful self defense rifle.
9mm caliber AR pistol is a great option that hasn't been discussed much.
Can be concealed, carried loaded and is very compact.
AlphaTango23
04-26-17, 20:26
I have 3k rounds through my PSA Billet Glock Lower and Spinta Upper/ BCG. Using factory Glock mags I've had zero issues.
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It would be a good option that I've tossed around for a while. Although For me it doesn't make sense as one of my CC weapons is a G19 (with 15/17/30rd mags), and HD weapon is a standard M4.
For fun and plinking, a 9mm AR pistol/carbine would be awesome if you have extra funds. Personally I plink with a 10" 22lr AR pistol with a KAK for much cheaper.
9mm caliber AR pistol is a great option that hasn't been discussed much.
Can be concealed, carried loaded and is very compact.
I struggle to comprehend how a 9mm caliber AR pistol can be concealed and is very compact. Don't get me wrong, I love my 9mm SBR, but I just can't figure why I'd want to carry an AR pistol over say a Glock 17 with a 33 round mag.
I struggle to comprehend how a 9mm caliber AR pistol can be concealed and is very compact. Don't get me wrong, I love my 9mm SBR, but I just can't figure why I'd want to carry an AR pistol over say a Glock 17 with a 33 round mag.
Backpack, loaded on the truck seat under a jacket, loaded behind the seat........."concealed" does not always mean on your person, tucked in your pants. :cool:
KiloSierra
05-08-17, 02:20
I struggle to comprehend how a 9mm caliber AR pistol can be concealed and is very compact. Don't get me wrong, I love my 9mm SBR, but I just can't figure why I'd want to carry an AR pistol over say a Glock 17 with a 33 round mag.
It's significantly easier to use once you get past ten or fifteen yards range.
Perhaps, but comparing it to a standard pistol like a Glock 17 with a 33 round mag is apples and oranges. From a practical standpoint, the AR9 pistol really can't stand up. It's not something that can really be carried/holstered. Not concealable by any real measure. It *might* be better for longer range shooting, but I'm not convinced that is a realistic use case for a pistol. Good luck shooting it one handed. Just awkward all around.
Don't get me wrong. I love my 9mm SBR and I think a pistol would be almost as much fun. I just don't see it as a viable full size pistol replacement. Just not as versatile.
medicman816
05-27-17, 22:31
Nice. I like the profile of that gun much more than the Glock lower 9mm setups.
This thread needs more PCC AR gun porn.
My contribution, a Colt pattern 4.5" 9mm:
http://wct097.com/wt/guns/sbr/9mm/9mm-4.5-1.jpg
http://wct097.com/wt/guns/sbr/9mm/9mm-4.5-2.jpg
http://wct097.com/wt/guns/sbr/9mm/9mm-4.5-3.jpg
http://wct097.com/wt/guns/sbr/9mm/9mm-4.5-4.jpg
And the stealth toolbox case I'm working on (waiting on foam), with my new SL-K stock:
http://wct097.com/wt/guns/rigid-sbr-glock-1.jpg
I'm dying to know what rail this is. An actual measurement of the rail itself would be a sweet bonus and a huge time saver for me. Thanks in advance.
Cool to see this thread still catching updates. Still looking to do a 9mm carbine. I'm sack deep in a middy right now with some cycling issues, so it'll have to be later.
I will say it again. For serious use I think 9mm needs to be in as small a package as possible. Which means it will be with you in a small back pack or computer bag. It is better than a pistol because it is easier to shoot and get hits under stress.
Examples of this weapon in my mind are MP5K, TP9, Mini or Micro Uzi, AR with 5" barrel max and a folding stock.
When you get to the size of a MP5, then go with a real rifle.
I'm dying to know what rail this is. An actual measurement of the rail itself would be a sweet bonus and a huge time saver for me. Thanks in advance.
Rail is a 4" by Guntec USA I got off Amazon for under $30, I think. My email says the order was $28, but the product shows as $58. Not sure if it went up or if I had a discount. I read later that it was a blatant knock off of a more popular brand (Troy, maybe) and people were bashing those that purchased them. I've been happy with it and it had good reviews.
The vendor and page don't seem to be on Amazon any longer. Was from "Black Rifle Supply" and was described as a "4" Ultralight M-LOK Mount Forend For 5.56/.223 Rifle".
Barrel is a 4.5" Kaw Valley from Joe Bob's, with a 3-lug adapter which brings it just past the end of the rail. 9mm doesn't have a barrel extension, so 1", IIRC of the barrel is in the receiver, so without the 3-lug, the barrel would be half an inch behind the end of the rail.
medicman816
05-28-17, 22:11
Thank you. I've been looking for a while and was starting to think i'd have to cut one down. Found them for ~$50, gtg for me. Hope to have pics soon. Would be curious to see how your tool box looks when finished. Thats kind of my end goal for this project.
Thank you. I've been looking for a while and was starting to think i'd have to cut one down. Found them for ~$50, gtg for me. Hope to have pics soon. Would be curious to see how your tool box looks when finished. Thats kind of my end goal for this project.
Ask and ye shall receive.
http://wct097.com/wt/guns/rigid-sbr-glock-2.jpg
http://wct097.com/wt/guns/rigid-sbr-glock-3.jpg
tagged for future reference.
All valid points. My buddy is reloading 9mm at .02/rd. But again that's not me
I don't believe you're buddy is loading at $0.02. You can buys primers for that. Nor powder, bullets, etc as components for that. More realistically 0.12-0.14 if over the shelf. Maybe 0.06-0.08 for cast.
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Back to the original subject of this thread. One thing to consider for "go-to" guns is reliability with cleaning/lubing. I've had most of my gun stuff in storage for the past two years, so I've been notoriously bad about cleaning my guns. I don't even track round counts at this point. I've even slacked on cleaning my carry gun. My carry G19 is dirty from the last time I shot it a month or so ago and I honestly don't remember when I last cleaned my 9mm AR. The last range trip, towards the end of the session, it started to have FTF malfunctions. After fussing with it a bit, and knowing we were over our time limit at the range, I shot a couple squirts of Ballistol through the ejection port and worked the bolt back and forth. That resolved the issue. I'm assuming that the fouling from shooting suppressed had overcome the lube from the last cleaning which prevented the bolt from fully engaging the round. The telling evidence of this was racking the charging handle and leaving the round in the chamber. Even slingshotting the bolt back home wouldn't always allow it to fire on the second try. I take full responsibility for not keeping it maintained, but I can't help but recognize that the mechanics of the 9mm are different enough from the self cleaning features of the 5.56 that it just won't go as long without maintenance & cleaning. As a recreational shooter, that's not a big deal to me, but it might be worth considering if you're using a similar build for a "go to" or defensive weapon.
In short, my experience is that my suppressed 9mm AR can't go as long as my 5.56 or suppressed 300BLK without cleaning & maintenance. YMMV.
Also, I fully plan to spend some quality time cleaning all of my guns in the next month or so when I get everything out of storage this weekend.
I have a tp9 sbr w/suppressor. It has the little micro acog on it.
It will fit in my laptop bag, gun, suppressor (not mounted), and 4 or so 30rd mags. If I drop the suppressor out, I can put the gun in there with the 15rd mag inserted. Yes, the laptop and it's power cord also fit. The laptop is in a separate compartment, so if I open it to get the laptop out, say, sitting in Barnes and Noble cafe, no one would be able to see the gun.
Bag looks a little full, but it doesn't print.
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I don't believe you're buddy is loading at $0.02. You can buys primers for that. Nor powder, bullets, etc as components for that. More realistically 0.12-0.14 if over the shelf. Maybe 0.06-0.08 for cast.
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You say that but when you're pounding out a thousand rounds a sitting, and your brass is free and so is your casting material, it's pretty low.
Primers are $40/1k. Powder is anywhere from $20-40 lb.
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You say that but when you're pounding out a thousand rounds a sitting, and your brass is free and so is your casting material, it's pretty low.
Where is he getting primers and powder for that? I've never bought primers for under $25/1000, which puts my primer cost at over $0.02 alone. Likewise I've never bought powder for under $25/lb. I think 1lb should get me about 625 rounds of 9mm, so at the cheapest, i'm at $0.06/rnd for just powder and primer. Your guy would have to be getting primers for $10/1000 and powder for $5/lb to get into the $0.026/rnd range. That seems a bit far fetched, even for someone that's basically doing manufacturer level loading.
Where is he getting primers and powder for that? I've never bought primers for under $25/1000, which puts my primer cost at over $0.02 alone. Likewise I've never bought powder for under $25/lb. I think 1lb should get me about 625 rounds of 9mm, so at the cheapest, i'm at $0.06/rnd for just powder and primer. Your guy would have to be getting primers for $10/1000 and powder for $5/lb to get into the $0.026/rnd range. That seems a bit far fetched, even for someone that's basically doing manufacturer level loading.
Don't know. I believe a lot of supplies were bought on the used market as well. I guess maybe everyone isn't privy to the same deals but there's no denying that 9mm isn't cheap. I know he uses wheel weights for his cast stuff and he got a few 5 gallon buckets full for free.
My personal costs for 9mm reloads are right about .10/ea. I buy in bulk, usually from midsouthshootersupply. Back about 6-12 months ago you could get S&B primers from $20/k from cabelas with $5 shipping plus hazmat to bring them to about $22/k shipped when I was buying 15-20k at a time. If you really want to save every little bit, you get the 8lb. kegs of Titegroup from midsouth, and shipped they can be as low as about $20/lb which is 1750 loaded 124 grain rounds at 4 grains each. I buy bullets from a local guy who coats them for $60/k, but if you are casting and not counting your time or lead cost (or you got it free), I could see loading for 3-4 cents per at today's bulk prices for powder and primers if you are casting yourself.
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