View Full Version : LMT Order Fulfillment
KenpoCop822
12-12-16, 12:01
My gun dealer ordered an LMT .308 rifle directly from LMT at the beginning of August of this year. Later, I was given a delivery date of October 27th. When said rifle didn't ship, my dealer called LMT, who flat out stated they would not have the rifle shipped and delivered in time for me to beat California's gun ban.
My question is, considering lead times and probably a high volume of orders, is it unreasonable for me to be upset that they missed their own delivery date, especially considering this is the last time Californians will reasonably be able to get these things. You would think that 1) they would do their best to help out California residents about this stupid gun ban, and 2) they would try to squeeze every dime they could out of Californians before they aren't able to sell here anymore.
I have to be honest. I'm very disappointed in this level of customer service from a manufacturer whose reputation for building firearms is so well regarded.
You're absolutely right to be upset.
First: end of August - end of Oct - is a two months lead time
Second: I think companies should be on the side of people in gun-unfriendly states and probably should prioritize orders in such extreme cases.
I agree, but I bet you'd find just as many who would want orders filled "first come, first served". But that is one heck of a long wait!
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Jwknutson17
12-12-16, 13:15
That lead time is nothing. Talk to some guys waiting well, well over a year for KAC SR25s and see how they feel. Same with Larue rifles. Mil contracts get them first and what's left go to the general public. You should expect this when ordering direct from these companies.
Hope it gets to you in time. But I would be looking elsewhere for one.
That lead time is nothing. Talk to some guys waiting well, well over a year for KAC SR25s and see how they feel. Same with Larue rifles. Mil contracts get them first and what's left go to the general public. You should expect this when ordering direct from these companies.
Hope it gets to you in time. But I would be looking elsewhere for one.
This.
I had to wait almost two years for my ECC. Then SH happened in the middle. I got my rifle but this isnt unusual.
Did you already put money down? If so, I would just wait it out. If not, GB.
In the post Sandy Hook chaos, LMT was backordered about 2 years.
I'm at a month out for an LMT lower, and still waiting, but I knew that going in.
KenpoCop822
12-12-16, 14:58
Unfortunately, living in California, I can't wait. My dealer was able to get their hands on another LMT, not the exact model that I wanted, but with the time constraint, I had very few options. I still went with them due to their reputation and availability (to me).
I get that availability of high end rifles can mean lengthy wait times. I don't have a problem with "first come, first serve". I suppose I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it if I wasn't given a shipping date. It just smacks of poor customer service, ESPECIALLY considering the California issue. I could have tried to get my hands on another platform, or at least searched around a bit.
So what exactly is the purpose of this thread? Stuff happens, and there are certain rifles such as the LMT, KAC and similar .308 rifles that are in demand and typically have long lead times.
Have you spoken with LMT directly throughout this process, or is your dealer the middle man for all communication? If the latter, I'd personally confirm everything with LMT before 1) losing all hope, and 2) airing it out openly.
In the meantime, hope your money is still in hand; it's take what you can grab season in Cali right now, so get to it...
An emergency on your part does not dictate an emergency on the part of LMT.
I am sure you are important to them. You just need to realize, you are not the ONLY customer they have.
KenpoCop822
12-12-16, 19:34
With all due respect, it wasn't an emergency on my part until they made it so. If they had delivered on the time frame that they themselves stated, then this would not be an issue. If they had not delayed after multiple phone calls in stating that they absolutely could not make the deadline that, once again, they set, this would not be an issue.
Again, I don't decry that there are lead times, or, as put earlier, that stuff happens. That's why I put in my order months ago. But when a customer reaches out to them, explains the situation, and still has to wait two weeks for an answer only to be told no, they could not make the deadline, that is just poor customer service. I have seen many threads around this place regarding pointing out poor customer service issues, I thought I would point out my experience. Why is that a bad thing all of a sudden? Stuff may happen, but how a company responds may mean the difference between improving, keeping, or losing customers. Quite frankly, I don't think that just because "stuff happens" that is any license for a company to treat customers any way that they choose without comment.
You should probably just go shop somewhere else then. The relationship just isn't working out.
With all due respect, it wasn't an emergency on my part until they made it so. If they had delivered on the time frame that they themselves stated, then this would not be an issue. If they had not delayed after multiple phone calls in stating that they absolutely could not make the deadline that, once again, they set, this would not be an issue.
Again, I don't decry that there are lead times, or, as put earlier, that stuff happens. That's why I put in my order months ago. But when a customer reaches out to them, explains the situation, and still has to wait two weeks for an answer only to be told no, they could not make the deadline, that is just poor customer service. I have seen many threads around this place regarding pointing out poor customer service issues, I thought I would point out my experience. Why is that a bad thing all of a sudden? Stuff may happen, but how a company responds may mean the difference between improving, keeping, or losing customers. Quite frankly, I don't think that just because "stuff happens" that is any license for a company to treat customers any way that they choose without comment.
Seems as if your dealer is as much to blame. just because he ordered it, it doesn't mean he WILL receive when he or you would like it. Like I said before, LMT has other customers other than you. Production run schedules are forecasts. Seems you chose a lot volume dealer and he did not have what you wanted already in the pipeline.
It may suck from your perspective, but it's just the way things apprear when viewed from jaded eyes.
And the issue with this thread is you are simply complaining because things did not go as you would have liked. Others here have tried to explain. They are not putting you down of knocking you for your view of the situation. People are just explaining the facts to you.
KenpoCop822
12-12-16, 21:35
My initial question was specifically whether my view was unreasonable. Not sure how that qualifies as jaded eyes. Just not sure why some of the replies had to be quite as snarky as they were.
Perhaps I'm not used to companies failing to meet their own stated deadlines, and then getting chastised by some for my questioning.
Anyway, thank you all for the responses.
My initial question was specifically whether my view was unreasonable. Not sure how that qualifies as jaded eyes. Just not sure why some of the replies had to be quite as snarky as they were.
Perhaps I'm not used to companies failing to meet their own stated deadlines, and then getting chastised by some for my questioning.
Anyway, thank you all for the responses.
You are being unreasonable.
Additionally what model of MWS did you order?
You should have bought the 16" chrome lined slick rail version. There were tons of these on GunBroker this fall.
You then could have ordered another barrel of your choice at a later date and been money ahead. If you order any of the stainless barrel models you end up paying nearly the same price for two barrels, but only get one barrel.
It just smacks of poor customer service, ESPECIALLY considering the California issue.
The issue is just that, Californian issue not LMT's. When you wait until the last minute, what do you expect?
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KenpoCop822
12-12-16, 22:02
Now was that so hard. :D
Originally it was going to be the slick rail, chrome lined version. However, the one that I could get that would ship in time was the LM308 MWS "G", which is the same rifle with the quad rail. I'll be happy with it, I'm sure, but have been moving away from the quad rail. If nothing else, I could always get another upper in the future, as long as I have my hands on this one already.
KenpoCop822
12-12-16, 22:06
The issue is just that, Californian issue not LMT's. When you wait until the last minute, what do you expect?
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Sorry, but the issue is giving a specific shipping date, not a general "it should be ready around XXX" date. Otherwise, I wouldn't have thought that getting a rifle two months ahead of the California deadline would have been waiting until the last minute.
Live and learn. Guess I just found out something about the firearm industy to keep in my cap for the future.
Mr. Goodtimes
12-12-16, 22:08
You're absolutely right to be upset.
First: end of August - end of Oct - is a two months lead time
Second: I think companies should be on the side of people in gun-unfriendly states and probably should prioritize orders in such extreme cases.
No they shouldn't. It's not they're fault an extreme minority of their customers live in a commie state. LMT should ship the OP's gun quicker than someone else's because the Peoples Republic Of California is enacting another draconian gun ban? One could use that same logic and spin it the other way.. the OP shouldn't live in a commie state and just move before the ban takes effect.
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KenpoCop822
12-12-16, 22:36
No they shouldn't. It's not they're fault an extreme minority of their customers live in a commie state. LMT should ship the OP's gun quicker than someone else's because the Peoples Republic Of California is enacting another draconian gun ban? One could use that same logic and spin it the other way.. the OP shouldn't live in a commie state and just move before the ban takes effect.
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Not sure that California counts as an "extreme minority" of their customers. Don't know how many LMT rifles are sold here. I can tell you that as of 2001 (the latest I could quickly find an article for) there were estimated to be up to 1 million registered assault rifles in California.
Any gun manufacturer has a business decision to make: sell in a state that will no longer be able to be a repeat customer, or sell in a state where someone can be. I get it. I believe, politically, it is the short game to not try to sell in the soon to be restricted state. I would be trying to get "Becky" and "John" to buy as many rifles as they could. Perhaps then there might, eventually, begin to be popular support for the relaxing of the laws when people take their buddies out shooting, or to a competition. Or maybe have those guns available in restricted states should the need arise. Who knows?
But that's just my viewpoint.
leibermuster
12-12-16, 22:37
My advice is leave California.
Just don't bring any of there ways with you.
But who knows. Trump is president elect you better of voted for him. Possibly he can veto that BS.
Its tough being in that situation but its not LMTs issue. They try there best. Its just an ETA. What can you do. #### happens bra.
Lmt rocks though. Great company.
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I don't see why anyone would even bother with an AR in California.
The goofy configuration would just remind me of the giant dicks in my throat and ass every time I looked at them.
OP. If the date given for delivery was truly straight from the horse's (LMT's) mouth, you have every right to be upset. Again, predicated upon that being the reality, it's not at all unreasonable to raise your dissatisfaction. The missing of the deadline is then compounded by LMT never alerting you of the potential issue until your side hounded them. I have no problem giving you the benefit of the doubt in that being the reality. Unless they had some catastrophic unforeseen issue arise, they should have contacted you or the LGS after realizing they could not meet the terms of your agreement; then allowing you the Liberty of deciding how to move forward.
I'm glad to hear you were able to find another rifle, and hope there aren't a bunch of others finding themselves in your same situation. I also agree that familiarizing "anti-gunners" with firearms is one of the best ways to change people's perspective. I'm from a "free state" and have a number of acquaintances who've switched sides; coming to realize the value of our 2nd Amendment Right. I personally land in the camp that think your State's laws are ridiculous, and many days kind of wish California would go their own way and leave us to our freedoms. Fortunately, a couple of members here gave me a better perspective; that gun owners across the nation should be advocates for those of you behind enemy lines. All to often, at the national level, States like NY and CA seem to drive the agenda and policy for the rest of us. So, we need to do what we can to extinguish this BS gun grabbing at the source. As others have stated, I can't imagine wanting a CA "legal" AR. But, if we aren't careful, there may come a day where we all are relegated to running nonsense configurations of "compliant" rifles. So, while I'll be one of the first to make fun of your laws, I'll be happy to do whatever I can to aid guys like you in fighting the progressive agenda of your State.
I'm short. Your frustration is warranted, and it seems like LMT's customer service was pretty abysmal at multiple points in the process. Glad you found an alternative solution, and hopefully that new rifle serves to open the eyes of others so that things may start changing for Californians.
Live and learn. Guess I just found out something about the firearm industy to keep in my cap for the future.
If you think the firearms industry is fickle, you should see the custom car industry. Dealing with fab shops, body shops and upholsters can be eye opening. Take the expected date and nearly double it.
When I'm on a time crunch, I only work with dealers that have the parts/firearms I want in stock. Lastly, congrats on finding a rifle that will work with you in the great state of California.
My previous comments were a bit to the point, was not trying to be condescending. I believe others' intent were the same, the mood of the room is hard to convey on the net
Definitely think you are being a bit unreasonable. As IG and others have said the demand for these weapons is high and delays can/are pretty much the norm. There are all sorts of things that can slow down production. Unfortunately you are/were up against a deadline and it wasn't going to be met. That is the main thing compounding your frustration. If that deadline wasn't in the picture you probably wouldn't be anywhere near as annoyed and this thread wouldn't exist. Don't mean this to sound harsh either. It took me almost 6 months to get the one I ordered. It was a pain waiting but well worth it in my case. Thankfully NC isn't in the same boat as CA when it comes to gun laws.
When ordering thru an LGS direct from a manufacturer, I have never been given an estimated, much less a solid ship date. It is typically "we'll call you when it arrives".
JME.
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It's not too late to buy a LMT elsewhere. An estimated delivery date is not a guarantee, unfortunately.
titsonritz
12-13-16, 10:44
My initial question was specifically whether my view was unreasonable. Not sure how that qualifies as jaded eyes. Just not sure why some of the replies had to be quite as snarky as they were.
Perhaps I'm not used to companies failing to meet their own stated deadlines, and then getting chastised by some for my questioning.
Anyway, thank you all for the responses.
Yes, your expectation is unreasonable. Gun manufacturers do not have "deadlines", they have approximate run dates base on supply and demand.
Not trying to be an ass and I do feel your pain but no one living in California should have waited this long to get anything semi-auto and if you have, unless it is in your hands it should not be considered available.
midnightrider
12-13-16, 10:59
Have you spoken with LMT directly throughout this process, or is your dealer the middle man for all communication? If the latter, I'd personally confirm everything with LMT before 1) losing all hope, and 2) airing it out openly.
In the meantime, hope your money is still in hand; it's take what you can grab season in Cali right now, so get to it...
This right here.
You know when you ordered it from your dealer, but are you 100% certain that your dealer placed the order on a timely basis?
You never know what may have happened.
KenpoCop822
12-13-16, 13:17
Again, it's not that I don't understand that they have run dates etc. It's that I was given a specific shipping date. I've ordered stuff before that they have given lead times of several months (with wiggle room put into that time, eg., 9-12 weeks), and I have no problem with that. I'm just confused as to why an industry would set very specific times knowing that they are possibly / likely to miss them. It's the same thing with airlines that overbook passengers and then dump them as they are trying to board. I don't know, I find that unreasonable.
Again, I generally buy off the shelf and do not order guns. Perhaps it was my lack of experience in this area that led me to believe that when someone issues a shipping date, they would likely stick to it.
I do have a .308 AR platform already. What I wanted to do was get a high end model. A Ferrari to my already owned Toyota, so to speak.
Also, I do know that they ordered it because I was there when they did. The purchaser for the business is a friend, which is why she was willing to work to find a replacement so quickly. She has it in hand, so it just needs to be sent to the loc to transfer, which will be done today.
I think we are done. OP got a rifle and the problem is solved.
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