View Full Version : Kuwaiti M1A2 Abrams recapitalization?
For you armor guys, is this similar to the latest US configuration?
http://www.dsca.mil/sites/default/files/mas/kuwait_16-66.pdf
Averageman
12-13-16, 12:35
Looks legit.
It's hard to tell unless you actually crawl around on one a bit, but it does seem like the real deal.
Spurholder
12-13-16, 12:44
Yep. We sold the Kuwaitis top of the line stuff. Like Averageman said, looks legit. This will help keep workers on the payroll and the assembly line, just like the initial production did back in the 90's.
In these kinds of deals, do they get everything that we have, or is some of the equipment classified?
One of the requested items is "special armor". I wouldn't imagine that we would sell our latest and greatest version overseas, but who knows?
Again for the armor experts, but looking at the document the upgrades look so extensive the they would require the tanks to be returned to the factory. Accurate? As opposed to having contractors doing the work in-country.
Spurholder
12-13-16, 20:03
The "special armor" comment aside, most, if not all, of the other stuff could be done at a warehouse in Doha, especially since the usual players (Lima Tank Plant and General Dynamics) are involved and would bring in the necessary heavy lift equipment.
Since the armor comment is intentionally vague, it could mean anything from swapping out ballistic skirts to something radically different. Especially with no line item prices attached to this announcement.
Replacing the main gun tube can be done outside of the factory?
Spurholder
12-13-16, 21:25
Yes. Gun tubes are easy.
For you armor guys, is this similar to the latest US configuration?
http://www.dsca.mil/sites/default/files/mas/kuwait_16-66.pdf
I've been working train and equip cases with DSCA for the past 3.5 years. The actual armor packages are secret, the end customer may know it's capability but not the details. Also, there is an inspection process they must adhere to so we know that technology transfer isn't happening. The next thing they wouldn't get would be our latest commo/crypto stuff, they would get a commo package that is interoperable with their current forces and hopefully us and the GCC states. When the Saudis switched from M60s(and some old French tanks) to M1s the main thing they had to change was the ceiling crane and had to cut holes in the walls of the garages for the M1's exhaust. LOL
Averageman
12-14-16, 05:35
Replacing the main gun tube can be done outside of the factory?
It can be done in the field.
Who is doing a lot of these things is more important.
One of the requested items is "special armor". I wouldn't imagine that we would sell our latest and greatest version overseas, but who knows?
From an unverified source, Kuwaitis and Saudis think they have the armor, but its not on par with ours.
Averageman
12-14-16, 17:48
From an unverified source, Kuwaitis and Saudis think they have the armor, but its not on par with ours.
It wouldn't be hard to crawl around on it a bit and know exactly what they got.
The money in deals like this isn't in the initial purchase, the real money is in the parts and expertise required to keep them running. You have to break out the check book if you want to maintain these vehicles.
There will likely be two to four guys on the ground supervising this and anywhere from twenty to forty doing the labor. This stuff doesn't come cheap.
It's a good deal all the way around for everyone involved.
My only real question in all of this is "Do the Kuwaiti's really think thier crews will hold the line?"
History says No.
There are quite a few General Dynamics guys in Saudi (assuming Kuwait and Egypt as well) maintaining these vehicles, I agree the local crews actually operating them are the weakest link.
I've been working train and equip cases with DSCA for the past 3.5 years. The actual armor packages are secret, the end customer may know it's capability but not the details. Also, there is an inspection process they must adhere to so we know that technology transfer isn't happening. The next thing they wouldn't get would be our latest commo/crypto stuff, they would get a commo package that is interoperable with their current forces and hopefully us and the GCC states. When the Saudis switched from M60s(and some old French tanks) to M1s the main thing they had to change was the ceiling crane and had to cut holes in the walls of the garages for the M1's exhaust. LOL
From an unverified source, Kuwaitis and Saudis think they have the armor, but its not on par with ours.
Did you see my post?
Did you see my post?
Yes. .
Averageman
12-16-16, 06:38
There are quite a few General Dynamics guys in Saudi (assuming Kuwait and Egypt as well) maintaining these vehicles, I agree the local crews actually operating them are the weakest link.
The Saudi's own the branch of General Dynamics in Saudi Arabia.
They may purchase the rights, they may buy certain technologies, but they are a separate entity in many ways.
IIRC, Egypt, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia all operate the Abrams. Are the configurations similar?
Averageman
12-16-16, 11:49
IIRC, Egypt, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia all operate the Abrams. Are the configurations similar?
Yes they are.
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