Opinions on Beretta 92 (Vertec)?

[signsrup]

I currently shoot a Glock 19, and have never really been a fan of the 92. It seemed big, bulky, and "bricklike" (i have small hands). But the other day, I fondled a Vertec, and was surprisingly impressed. It's still on the large side, but I think that bulk could work as an advantage in follow-ups.

i'm not looking for another CCW, my 19 and 642 can handle that chore. But if I get off my can, and ever get to an IDPA or 3-gun match, would I be happy?

I could get a 17, but that's such a safe choice I don't know if I could get excited about it.:D

Eric

[Robb Jensen]

Great gun. My wife and I own a 92G Vertec. I've put a few thousand rounds through it. I very much like the G over the FS. I've owned several Berettas and this is the 2nd G model. My first one was the Beretta 92 Elite which I shot for over a year in IDPA and put about 15K rounds through it.

[John_Wayne777]

When properly tuned a Beretta can run very well. My pet 92 has an Ernie Langdon trigger job on it and it shoots extremely well. Even I can't seem to miss with it.

If you really like the 92, buy one. I've already got two of them so I'm not interested in acquiring any more.

[evilmonkey]

They are good to go! You wont be dissapointed!

[CLHC]

What the others said above!

Though I don't have a Vertec, the only regret that I have experienced with the B.92.FS, was selling it! Here's my current version. . .

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g124/ClarenceLadd/IMG_0857.jpg
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g124/ClarenceLadd/IMG_0860.jpg
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g124/ClarenceLadd/IMG_0862.jpg
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g124/ClarenceLadd/IMG_0864.jpg

Hope you find what you're looking for and Enjoy! :cool:

[theJanitor]

i have a 96g, and it's a great shooter. i got pretty big hands so it works well, but i do like the feel of the vertec. i can't seem to miss with mine either

[signsrup]

Thanks all. The one I handled turned out to be an FS. I would really like to find a G. I'll keep looking.

Eric

[Sam]

I have a Vertec G in 9mm. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's the best pistol Beretta had ever made. There's absolutely no recoil, ultra reliable, very accurate and if you replace the main spring with a 19lb 1911 main spring (hammer spring), you'll have a 3 minute almost instant trigger job.

[HK45]

I will be contrary and say I think there are a lot better pistols available than Beretta's. It's an old design and it shows. Bulky, poor trigger, not a very good gun games pistol if that's what you are interested in. Even worse for CCW. There is a reason Beretta's are not very popular anymore and it has a lot to do with design and customer service.

[evilmonkey]

blah blah blah! beretta's are not that old and they are still a damn fine pistol! Im a big glock fan but I still choose to have my beretta over a 1911 or any HK pistol!

[HK45]

Thats a very convincing and well thought out statement. You must be on your High School debate team.

[ToddG]

Discuss the issue, not one another or people's debate styles. Thank you.

[rubberneck]

I will be contrary and say I think there are a lot better pistols available than Beretta's. It's an old design and it shows. Bulky, poor trigger, not a very good gun games pistol if that's what you are interested in. Even worse for CCW. There is a reason Beretta's are not very popular anymore and it has a lot to do with design and customer service.

The 92 was designed in 1976, 65 years after the US military adopted the 1911 and 5 years before Gaston Glock created the first Glock. How that qualifies as an old design is beyond me. I suppose if you are talking in relation to the XD's and M&P's of the world you would have a point but then the trade off is that the new designs don't have the established track record of the 92. The 1911 variants represent an outstanding choice as a sidearm despite the fact that the design is pushing 100 years.

As far as game guns goes several top shooters have risen to the top of the sport while driving a 92 variant (Dave Olhasso, Ernie Langdon, Super Dave Harrington and Ben Stoger come to mind). Granted the striker fired guns are all the rage but it is still the man behind the gun that makes the difference. The ironic thing is that by your screen name I can assume that you are a H&K fan. I cannot recall a single top shooter, except maybe Bruce Gray (even he gave up on that design in favor of Sigs), doing anything of note with a HK in competition.

[evilmonkey]

[QUOTE=HK45;222174]...........

Any way to get back on topic I know of two people who use it for IDPA and they love it! The one guy won a regional match shooting SSP expert with it so in the right hands the berreta can be a damn good gun for IDPA. Personally I Shoot my Glock 17, I tried shooting with a 34 but I always shot better with the 17.








Off topic comments removed -- gotm4

[DocGKR]

Big for caliber
Insipid safety location and direction of movement
Trigger issues including long trigger pull and need for DA/SA transition
Frame and slide longevity issues compared to other designs
Potential locking block issues
Reduced mag capacity compared to other similar size pistols (ie. G17, M&P)

Hmm...I think I'll pass.

[JonInWA]

I'd like to weigh in, but I'll have to qualify my response, as my Beretta 92 experiences are limited to the 92F, 92D, and 92 Compact L Type M pistols, not the Vertec.

Out of the pistols above, my "keeper" is the 92D, with Trijicon sights and Falcon Ergo Extreme Duty grips. It has a buttery smooth trigger, out of the box, and I've literally never had a malfunction of any sort with it. With the right holster (for me, either a Kramer IWB or an Orca IWB) the gun works just fine as a concealed carry gun-it honestly is not all that difficult to carry concealed.

It's weight is a mixed blessing-while it beautifully absorbs recoil forces, by the same token there's little energy left over to help "steer" the gun to a second target.

Mine has the "second generation" locking block, good for around 17,000 rounds-so I'm not overly concerned about its longevity.

Since I normally download my Glock G17/G19 magazines by a round or two to facilitate tactical reloading and to extend tube/spring life, I'm not too concerned over the 15 round capacity of Beretta 92 magazines. Frankly, I don't consider myself underarmed with a 8 round 1911 magazine, or a 6 round revolver cylinder in most circumstances. For extrodinary circumstances, I tailor the amont of spare magazines carried to the situation.

Given my druthers, in most situations, I'd certainly prefer my Glock 17 or 19, due to their greater weather/environmental imperviousness, lighter weight, shorter trigger pull and easier maintenance protocols. But I certainly appreciate the Beretta 92 family, and would not feel ineffectual if restricted to a 92.

Best, Jon

[ToddG]

Big for caliber

Absolutely.


Insipid safety location and direction of movement

Absolutely. All of my Berettas are "G" models which have a decocker-only function and cannot be put on safe (purposely or inadvertently).


Trigger issues including long trigger pull and need for DA/SA transition

This is one part training issue and one part mental block. While I'd agree it's a little easier to shoot a SFA or SAO gun, and it's definitely easier to teach people how to shoot SFA/SAO guns, an awful lot of very effective people -- whether we're talking operationally or competitively -- have been quite successful with DA/SA guns.


Frame and slide longevity issues compared to other designs

In .40-cal absolutely. I've never seen issues in the nines.

As an aside, I have a custom built 96G Elite chambered for 357 SIG. The frame cracked in multiple places within 5,000 rounds.


Potential locking block issues

This is a very complicated issue. The quick version:

If you have a gun manufactured since 2000 or so, your locking block will far outlast any typical shooting regimen. Replacing the block every 20k rounds (which is also recommended by many other gun manufactures for their locking blocks, locking inserts, or whatever they call the equivalent part) should keep you running indefinitely.
If you have an older locking block, it's definitely more prone to breakage.
Regardless of the vintage of your locking block, some of them just break at low round counts for no discernible reason. While I was working there, the head engineer of Beretta USA flat out told me one afternoon, "No matter how much we improve it, some of them just break in less than 2,000 rounds." It's not common, but it happens.
Once a locking block breaks in your gun, it will damage the slide in such a way that subsequent replacement blocks will last for shorter and shorter periods before they break. There are steps you can take to mitigate this but most people aren't aware of them or just don't bother.


Reduced mag capacity compared to other similar size pistols (ie. G17, M&P)

Absolutely.

[Sam]

I use to think the Pizza gun was unshootable due to the DA/SA and other baloney that people like Jeff Cooper wrote in gun magazines. Then I witnessed shooters like Langdon, Harrington, Green and Hackathorn debunked the myth. Since then I bought and shoot two Pizza guns, both G models 9mm, Vertec and Centurion. I have extra locking blocks too :)

[signsrup]

Thanks to all for the info and opinions.

Since I started the thread, i've shot an M&P 9, and a 17. I didn't like the M&P trigger, but I had just shot about 100 rounds in my 19, so of course it's going to feel "different".

I don't know why, but I shot my 19 consistently better than the 17 also.

Todd, thanks for sharing your knowledge from the production side of these pistols.

[Slater]

Isn't the new 90Two supposed to address many of the durability/longevity issues? Someone told me it has 13 fewer parts than a standard 92 also, but I don't know if that's accurate or hearsay.

[rubberneck]

Reduced mag capacity compared to other similar size pistols (ie. G17, M&P)

I wonder how many people can actually load 17 rounds in a G17 mag and get it seated in the gun?

A difference of one or two rounds isn't that big of an issue to me. If you need more than 16 rounds to deal with a problem than you are in a really bad way regardless of what you have in your hand. Having one or two extra rounds probably won't make things any better. I guess it is always better to have more than less but at a certain point the importance of those extra rounds isn't as important as it would be when considering carrying a single stack 1911 vs a M&P 45. YMMV.

[ToddG]

Isn't the new 90Two supposed to address many of the durability/longevity issues? Someone told me it has 13 fewer parts than a standard 92 also, but I don't know if that's accurate or hearsay.

The 90-Two hasn't exactly taken off as a commercial or LE success. Clue.

As for the parts, be careful about ascribing too much important to such things. The gun no longer has two separate stocks (grip panels), four separate grip screws, four separate grip screw washers, and four separate grip screw bushings. Replace those 14 parts with one grip insert and you've got 13 fewer parts without changing the complexity of the action and locking system one bit.

[Slater]

And the 90Two goes for around $650 in my neck of the woods, so the price hasn't helped either. With the 92/M9, M9A1, and 90-Two it seems like Beretta is trying to wring out all the mileage they can from that design.

I admit that I do like the 90Two's styling, and at one time was seriously considering buying one (in 9mm). A Glock 17 got in the way of that transaction :p

[evilmonkey]

The locking block issue will always be a black eye for beretta but The new generation of locking block is a definite improvement. If your going to shoot comp with it definitly change the spring to a D model. It still wont be as smooth as a 1911 but it will be an improvement.

[LegalAlien]

It is amazing what some unbiased research will show up, if you are prepared to read what is available.
Below is directly from Beretta International website:-


Beretta U.S.A. Reliability and Durability Statistics for the Beretta 9mm Pistol
• The average reliability of all M9 pistols tested at Beretta U.S.A. is 17,500 rounds without a stoppage.
• During one test of twelve pistols fired at Beretta U.S.A. before Army supervision, Beretta-made M9 pistols shot 168,000 rounds without a single malfunction.
• The Beretta 9mm pistol was the most reliable of all pistols tested in the 1984 competition which resulted in the award of the M9 contract to Beretta.
• Two-thirds of all M9 pistols endurance tested at Beretta U.S.A. fired 5,000 rounds without a single mal function or, at most, with only one malfunction.
• The average durability of Beretta M9 slides is over 35,000 rounds, the point at which U.S. Army testing ceases.
• The average durability of M9 frames is over 30,000 rounds. The average durability of M9 locking blocks is 22,000 rounds


http://www.beretta.com/index.aspx?m=74&idc=2&ids=27

Also interesting to read the 'real story' behind the infamous slide failures:-

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/true_story_m9.htm

Urban legends are sometimes just that . . . legends . . with very little reality

[sigmundsauer]

The Beretta 92 is a fine weapon.

Given the choice I'd pick something else, but a modern, well-maintained 92 gives up very little. It is not the best choice for concealed carry, on account of its bulk, but one can do much worse.

As a servicemember, I will always own a 92, if for no other reason to train with so that its idiosyncrasies can be learned.

Tim

[SpartanArms]

+10 on what DocGKR said.
I would personally pass on it, but if it floats your boat...be my guest.:D

[BushmasterFanBoy]

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/Burke888/100_1312.jpg

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Proud owner of a Vertec. One of my very first handguns.:D

[kong]

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/Burke888/100_1312.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/Burke888/100_1340.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/Burke888/100_1318.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/Burke888/100_1337.jpg

Proud owner of a Vertec. One of my very first handguns.:D

fanboy...pics aren't showing for me.:confused:

I recently picked up a ninety-two and I am quite please. I can not induce an accidental decock becasue of the changes. I will be ordering the staight back strap grips for it which will make it quite similiar to the Vertec.

I have spent quite a bit of time with the G19, not so much with the Berretta. I would pick the Berretta but only because Glocks fit my hand so poorly.