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Detective_D
09-17-08, 10:37
What is the deal with this gun???

It was actually in the hands of a shooting victim here last week. I am guessing he got it from a gun show or something. I am not a homicide detective so I dont know all the details...i.e. if it was registered to him or not.

The funny thing is..........

one of the homicide detectives said....."he was still holding an 'assault' rifle...."

I just shook my head and let it go.

markm
09-17-08, 10:49
That's that junk novelty folding .223 carbine isn't it?

LOKNLOD
09-17-08, 10:53
That's that junk novelty folding .223 carbine isn't it?

I think it's the pistol version.

My buddy's got one of the foldy-rifles. Neat concept, poor excecution. First time out, cartridge got stuck in the chamber. Actually, I think it still is (2 years later).

lonewolf21
09-17-08, 12:02
yeah, i saw that in the newspaper and informed everybody in lineup about it. it may suck, but i dont like the idea of 30 .223 rounds concealed under somebodys coat. shoot or not, i wouldnt take those odds.

Detective_D
09-17-08, 13:15
Yeah, this is the pistol....no stock.

It is amazing that you can have a 30 round .223 short barrel firearm with no stock and not have to have a stamp or anything.

I dont know where he got it from or anything, but he had a usgi mag filled up with .223.

markm
09-17-08, 13:30
It is amazing that you can have a 30 round .223 short barrel firearm with no stock and not have to have a stamp or anything.


Brilliant logic isn't it? Although some might say we shouldn't have to put stamps on any of our toys eh? ;)

Palmguy
09-17-08, 18:56
What is the deal with this gun???

It was actually in the hands of a shooting victim here last week. I am guessing he got it from a gun show or something. I am not a homicide detective so I dont know all the details...i.e. if it was registered to him or not.

The funny thing is..........

one of the homicide detectives said....."he was still holding an 'assault' rifle...."

I just shook my head and let it go.

You guys have registration in Arkansas?

thopkins22
09-17-08, 23:21
Although some might say we shouldn't have to put stamps on any of our toys eh? ;)

I'm glad somebody said it. His "concealable" rifle didn't help him out much, and it would ban a whole lot of ak's and other guns that most of us own that have never, and will never be involved in a crime.

Shihan
09-18-08, 05:42
I have one and it runs like a champ. Changed the extractor out from the POS and installed a 5coil spring and black insert.

Detective_D
09-18-08, 10:57
You guys have registration in Arkansas?

No, speaking of atf regulations.

MisterWilson
09-18-08, 11:05
It is amazing that you can have a 30 round .223 short barrel firearm with no stock and not have to have a stamp or anything.

I mean no disrespect in asking but, why do you believe that one should be required to have a stamp (or infringement depending on your perspective) to possess such a concealable weapon?

Do you feel the same way about any other guns?

I just want to better understand your perspective.

Detective_D
09-18-08, 11:08
Let me try to go back a little.

I am not saying that we "should" have stamps on anything we own. What I am saying is that with the restrictions being as tight as they are on our toys, it is hard to believe that this one is not restricted in some way.

I am with DemiGod on this when I say that I wish all the stamps and regulations could go away for those of us that are responsible and law abiding gun owners.

Does that explain it a little better?
~D

MisterWilson
09-18-08, 11:27
I've gotcha now.

:D

Shihan
09-18-08, 21:57
Let me try to go back a little.

I am not saying that we "should" have stamps on anything we own. What I am saying is that with the restrictions being as tight as they are on our toys, it is hard to believe that this one is not restricted in some way.

I am with DemiGod on this when I say that I wish all the stamps and regulations could go away for those of us that are responsible and law abiding gun owners.

Does that explain it a little better?
~D

Its a pistol!

Detective_D
09-19-08, 09:09
Its a pistol!

I understand that.

A pistol that shoots 30 .223 rounds out of a short rifle barrel.

Dont get me wrong, I am not saying it should be restricted, just surprised that you can take a stock off of a sbr and the govt. not try to restrict it.

And yes, I know that this is not just the stock taken off of an sbr...just sayin...
~D

CarlosDJackal
11-08-08, 08:18
Even dumber. If I make mine longer by adding a stock to it, I have to register it for $200!! If I add a VFG to it, I also have to register it (as an AOW) for $5.

It's just the lack of common sense from those who write our laws.

BAC
11-08-08, 14:49
I dunno, I kinda like the idea of one as a "truck gun" for when the gang-banger is kindly requesting you to get out of your car from the driver's window. Load a 20-round mag with 62 or 55 grain Federal bonded JSP, hide it, call it a day. I've never heard any review on how the "pistol" actually runs, though, or if it runs at all. I just think it looks cool and it'd scare the shit out of said gang-banger. :D


-B

Macx
11-29-08, 21:34
Guns aren't for scaring people. (says the guy who has had a DGU sans trigger pull) but seriously, regardless of whether it is a Bushmaster, AMD65 or Krink derived, PLR, or Contender pistol . . . there is no reason rifle caliber pistols need to be regulated more strictly than a .454 or .500 S&W. More regulation is NOT the right answer.

I would of course like a link to whatever the media did with the incident. Didn't hear about it up here.

CarlosDJackal
11-30-08, 15:10
Guns aren't for scaring people...

I disagree. Scaring an individual is a very important step in the force continuum!!

Macx
11-30-08, 19:26
That was a little tongue in cheek. Like I said, I have had a DGU in which I didn't pull the trigger. The man standing in my front room in the wee hours of the a.m. elected to believe his crack dealer no longer had a room upstairs where my family was sleeping. . . . only when I indicated that failing to leave and/or forcing his way further in, would involve copious steam cleaning and maybe some spackle;);) but he would not be making it out except the way he came in. No other language was getting it. I said "no" "nobody here by that name" "leave" "leave now!" "he doesn't live here" . . . at various volumes in various orders but those five statements repeated & he gave every indication of intending to push further into the house. I figured I knew he was armed with something, as he had to have had something to pry the window. Sure enough, very large screwdriver in the back pocket when he turned to leave. I drew because he wasn't getting with my verbal commands, I was sure he was armed, I didn't know if he had backup, I knew I had a wife and baby upstairs. So, there is that whole story.

That said, I don't believe scare is in the continuum of force. The point of drawwing is rather to prepare to fire. If that scares them and you don't have to fire, great, awesome, ideal! But that isn't the reason to draw. Drawwing to scare is a great way to catch a lawsuit, or get sacked by a liberal D.A. and get your ability to handle firearms stripped. Drawwing to scare is a great example of what might seem reasonable to you or me, but sound like Felony Making Terroristic Threats to a gov't attorney that doesn't like that you can own the toys you own.

halo2304
12-22-08, 17:47
Well said Macx. I agree that guns should not be used to delibrdeliberately scare or intimidate people. Then again, if someone wanting what you have can be persuaded otherwise just by staring down the business end of a firearm, great! I don't know if I'd use a .223 pistol for personal defense for two reasons 1) I've never fired one and I don't know how controlable they are and 2) like my Five-seveN, I'd hate to have it mistaken for a dinky .22 and have to fire when they don't take my warnings seriously. Of course, the huge flash and bang would be the last thing they see and hear as they die sadly mistaken.

Macx
12-22-08, 20:34
Incidently it was a 9x18 that I presented to the fella in that incident. It really isn't about stopping power until you pull the trigger . . . that said, I have drawn twice in urban settings in the CONUS . . . once with a 9x18 semi-auto and once with a 454 Casull revolver. In both cases the folks that chose to aggress illegally on law abiding citizens chose to stand down.

The .454 incident was a young hispanic lady I heard screaming in the wee hours at the bus stop across the street. The bangers were about to gang rape this chick on the bench and I went out across the street in my skivvies and revolver and asked them to let her wait for her bus in peace. . . I am no hero and I don't wanna take any B.S. like as though I thought I were. I couldn't let that go down while I was in earshot. Wasn't like the .454 was in a holster . .. I was in my skivvies, gangbangers chose to stand down.

I just don't buy that criminals have any inkling/care about what caliber or capability is being pointed at them. It boils down to, "I have a gun pointed at me and I would rather not commit this crime than get shot." Daz it plain and simple. We law abiding folk console ourselves with the capability and stopping power of our devices. . .. criminals, in my experience, really sincerely don't care what you draw on them. They care that there is a potential to get shot and steps like walking out your front door and going away, that they can do to avoid being shot.

halo2304
12-22-08, 22:22
Yeah, I suppose you're right, but I'm still going to carry my G19 instead of my Five-seveN...mainly because if I have to use it, I know it will be taken into evidence and I can more easily replace a $500 Glock than a $1000 F-N! Plus, why add to the hype and hysteria around the 5.7 caliber and the guns that fire it? I can see the news story now "A man was shot and killed by gun-crazed vigilante carrying 40 rounds of armor piercing ammo!"

CarlosDJackal
01-05-09, 12:34
You'd be surprised just how large a .22 muzzle looks from the business end (been there, done that)!! :eek:

G19dude
02-17-11, 20:46
Incidently it was a 9x18 that I presented to the fella in that incident. It really isn't about stopping power until you pull the trigger . . . that said, I have drawn twice in urban settings in the CONUS . . . once with a 9x18 semi-auto and once with a 454 Casull revolver. In both cases the folks that chose to aggress illegally on law abiding citizens chose to stand down.

The .454 incident was a young hispanic lady I heard screaming in the wee hours at the bus stop across the street. The bangers were about to gang rape this chick on the bench and I went out across the street in my skivvies and revolver and asked them to let her wait for her bus in peace. . . I am no hero and I don't wanna take any B.S. like as though I thought I were. I couldn't let that go down while I was in earshot. Wasn't like the .454 was in a holster . .. I was in my skivvies, gangbangers chose to stand down.

I just don't buy that criminals have any inkling/care about what caliber or capability is being pointed at them. It boils down to, "I have a gun pointed at me and I would rather not commit this crime than get shot." Daz it plain and simple. We law abiding folk console ourselves with the capability and stopping power of our devices. . .. criminals, in my experience, really sincerely don't care what you draw on them. They care that there is a potential to get shot and steps like walking out your front door and going away, that they can do to avoid being shot.

AGREE-

I did a study in my Criminology class about CCW/CCP. In about a little more than 70% of cases studied of ccw holders in a potential life threatening situation once the fire arm was presented the situation was diffused or less injury occurred if the fire arm was not presented.

Where they got their numbers I don't know and I do not have the data on hand. I can look back in my notes and check if anyone is interested.