View Full Version : Hunting to Tacticool or vice versa?
Hello All,
After getting excellent feedback on my several questions on this forum, I've decided that my first bolt action rifle will be a 300 Win Mag.
My intended use for the rifle is basically punching paper to increasing distances. Actually, my intended use is hunting game and sniping should the S hit the F. But since that's not going to happen, it's going to be a target gun.
So, what would be the better idea?
1. Buy a hunting rifle (like a Weatherby Mark V) but use it as a sniper rifle if the situation arises.
or
2. Build a tacticool sniper rifle and press it into hunting service if the food supply chain collapses.
As I said, I don't think there is a realistic chance of the worst happening (but, Trump is a hot head and people seem to hate him, so who knows?) so it seems to me that option 1 makes more sense. I don't see why I couldn't practice long range shooting with a 'hunting' rifle.
Any thoughts?
Thanks again for all your help,
JRC
jethroUSMC
01-06-17, 12:48
It depends.
One, the terrain you hunt in can help answer some of those questions. Mountains and steep rugged country and tactical rifles tend to not mix well because they are heavier rifles and two, you are more likely to need or want to hunt than to ever need to snipe in a SHTF scenario (unless you're on our Southern border with Mexico) :D
Averageman
01-06-17, 13:41
After getting excellent feedback on my several questions on this forum, I've decided that my first bolt action rifle will be a 300 Win Mag.
My intended use for the rifle is basically punching paper to increasing distances. Actually, my intended use is hunting game and sniping should the S hit the F. But since that's not going to happen, it's going to be a target gun.
So, what would be the better idea?
1. Buy a hunting rifle (like a Weatherby Mark V) but use it as a sniper rifle if the situation arises.
or
2. Build a tacticool sniper rifle and press it into hunting service if the food supply chain collapses.
As I said, I don't think there is a realistic chance of the worst happening (but, Trump is a hot head and people seem to hate him, so who knows?) so it seems to me that option 1 makes more sense. I don't see why I couldn't practice long range shooting with a 'hunting' rifle.
Any thoughts?
Thanks again for all your help,
JRC
You're leaving out a lot of variables as jethroUSMC mentioned.
Where you hunt is important because in a lot of area's people are very successful hunters by simply planting themselves in a tree stand and waiting. Terrain is important as far as getting there and back and hauling meat is not going to be as easy as it is now. Distance and Transportation are also highly important questions also.
Those same variables will also effect your rifle, caliber, weight of your gear, barrel length etc.
A simple .308 in a light weight barrel configuration "might" be the most versatile and easy to use hunting rifle you would need, you can likely take 90% of North American game with it. It wont likely be firing more than one shot to take game, so the effects of a sustained rate of fire shouldn't effect you. The other side of that is OTB "Tactical Rifles" might have some options you can work with.
Here's the other end of the hunting in a SHTF scenario;
It's going to be very dangerous to fire a shot in the woods in such an event. Going out there in a group of less than two or three is going to be possibly a dangerous prospect because every knucklehead who ever thought they could learn the skills necessary to hunt, process and preserve game meat thinks the woods are a Supermarket. If they are hungry, armed and in the area, you might just get shot from your six while you stand over a steaming gut pile.
So if I'm correct about the above (And I'm not saying I have all of the answers by any means) consider this;
A) I would never hunt alone.
B) I would really consider a suppressor on my rifle.
C) I would scout the hell out of my AO now.
D) I would hunt my AO every time I got the chance.
E) I would practice a lot with that rifle and get to know it well.
F) I would consider and practice my routes in and out and figure on moving 70-100 pounds of meat and bone in what might be up to three additional trips back and forth to transportation, if you have a successful hunt.
Everybody's SHTF is different, so you have a lot of choices to make. If this was my decision to make here is a rifle I would seriously consider and sorry, no it's not 300 Win Mag.
https://www.remington.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/model-700-sps-threaded-barrel
That and a suppressor and some really nice optics might be a happy medium when considering this situation.
When you say SHTF, that's actually kind of vague, so that's the best I can do for you.
skywalkrNCSU
01-06-17, 14:23
If you really don't plan on hunting with it I wouldn't go the hunting rifle route just because a lightweight 300 WM is not going to be much fun to shoot. You don't have to go all tacticool but getting a heavier gun is going to be far more pleasurable for punching paper and ringing steel.
From what I gather from your post you only think about hunting in a SHTF scenario. I would not base my purchase of a long distance target shooting gun on that.
If this is your FIRST bolt gun I assume you have limited centerfire rifle experience?
I'll offer one guarantee; your learning curve, hit probability will be exponentially easier starting with a .308.
A .308 is easily a 600-800 yd. cartridge. Do you have ready access to a 1,000 yd. range to exploit the .300 Win mags capabilities?
There will be a lot more trigger time per dollar with the .308 as well, even if you're a reloader.
Merely a suggestion.
If this is your FIRST bolt gun I assume you have limited centerfire rifle experience?
I'll offer one guarantee; your learning curve, hit probability will be exponentially easier starting with a .308.
A .308 is easily a 600-800 yd. cartridge. Do you have ready access to a 1,000 yd. range to exploit the .300 Win mags capabilities?
There will be a lot more trigger time per dollar with the .308 as well, even if you're a reloader.
Merely a suggestion.
That is all very, very level headed advice. And, it's probably the right way to go. But, I'll tell you the truth. I had this idea that if things did go south, I'd want a rifle that could hunt anything in the Nortwest US. And, given that I'm not a hunter, but am am a slightly above average shot in general, a big magnum round would bring down game better than a .308 if I didn't put the round exactly where I want it.
Given that the odds are minuscule in the extreme that I'll ever be in that situation it's best that I start out with a .308 or a 30-06. The 300 Win Mag sure is sexier to goofballs like me though :)
JRC
You're leaving out a lot of variables as jethroUSMC mentioned.
Where you hunt is important because in a lot of area's people are very successful hunters by simply planting themselves in a tree stand and waiting. Terrain is important as far as getting there and back and hauling meat is not going to be as easy as it is now. Distance and Transportation are also highly important questions also.
Those same variables will also effect your rifle, caliber, weight of your gear, barrel length etc.
A simple .308 in a light weight barrel configuration "might" be the most versatile and easy to use hunting rifle you would need, you can likely take 90% of North American game with it. It wont likely be firing more than one shot to take game, so the effects of a sustained rate of fire shouldn't effect you. The other side of that is OTB "Tactical Rifles" might have some options you can work with.
Here's the other end of the hunting in a SHTF scenario;
It's going to be very dangerous to fire a shot in the woods in such an event. Going out there in a group of less than two or three is going to be possibly a dangerous prospect because every knucklehead who ever thought they could learn the skills necessary to hunt, process and preserve game meat thinks the woods are a Supermarket. If they are hungry, armed and in the area, you might just get shot from your six while you stand over a steaming gut pile.
So if I'm correct about the above (And I'm not saying I have all of the answers by any means) consider this;
A) I would never hunt alone.
B) I would really consider a suppressor on my rifle.
C) I would scout the hell out of my AO now.
D) I would hunt my AO every time I got the chance.
E) I would practice a lot with that rifle and get to know it well.
F) I would consider and practice my routes in and out and figure on moving 70-100 pounds of meat and bone in what might be up to three additional trips back and forth to transportation, if you have a successful hunt.
Everybody's SHTF is different, so you have a lot of choices to make. If this was my decision to make here is a rifle I would seriously consider and sorry, no it's not 300 Win Mag.
https://www.remington.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/model-700-sps-threaded-barrel
That and a suppressor and some really nice optics might be a happy medium when considering this situation.
When you say SHTF, that's actually kind of vague, so that's the best I can do for you.
Very, very good advice. I sure am wishy-washy because based on the advice from this thread, I'm swinging back to .308 or 30-06. I can tell you that regarding point B, I have several supressors in jail right now. And, I definitely need to follow C, D, E, and F. As far as your rifle recommendation, I was so close to clicking the button on an SPS in 30-06 when Remington had their rebate but I didn't do it. I'm kicking myself now.
Thanks again,
If you really don't plan on hunting with it I wouldn't go the hunting rifle route just because a lightweight 300 WM is not going to be much fun to shoot. You don't have to go all tacticool but getting a heavier gun is going to be far more pleasurable for punching paper and ringing steel.
From what I gather from your post you only think about hunting in a SHTF scenario. I would not base my purchase of a long distance target shooting gun on that.
That was my way of thinking. And in an end of the world scenario I could always go hunting with an AR-10.
JRC
It depends.
One, the terrain you hunt in can help answer some of those questions. Mountains and steep rugged country and tactical rifles tend to not mix well because they are heavier rifles and two, you are more likely to need or want to hunt than to ever need to snipe in a SHTF scenario (unless you're on our Southern border with Mexico) :D
That's true. I live in the Pacific Northwest. That would be my AO.
JRC
If this is your FIRST bolt gun I assume you have limited centerfire rifle experience?
I'll offer one guarantee; your learning curve, hit probability will be exponentially easier starting with a .308.
A .308 is easily a 600-800 yd. cartridge. Do you have ready access to a 1,000 yd. range to exploit the .300 Win mags capabilities?
There will be a lot more trigger time per dollar with the .308 as well, even if you're a reloader.
Merely a suggestion.
I strongly agree with all of this.
What are you hunting in the Pacific Northwest that you can't easily take down with a .308?
Honestly, I believe you are better off with a military cartridge. The .308W is the best choice for a general purpose hunting rifle. For several reasons. Surplus ammo is available along with everything under the sun in the commercial market. The .300WM requires a magnum length action. The .30-06 requires a long action but the .308W can be used in a short action carbine style rifle and even in the AR10 platform. This makes for a much more desirable compact and lighter rifle package. YMMV and everyone has a different opinion. This is just mine! Surplus battle packs are easy to find and don't cost an arm and a leg. I just bought 200rd Hirtenberger battle packs for $100. I'm sure there are better (less expensive) deals but I like Austrian ammo in my Austrian rifle. So, I buy Hirtenberger when I can find it.
My Scout rifle will soon be fitted with a compact Thermal Imager that will also be switchable to my AUG.
SamM
Maybe something like a predator rifle is what you desire.
They are not a light as a hunting rifle, yet not as heavy as a tactical rifle.
I don't have any working knowledge of these types of rifles, but they are getting pretty popular with Savage, Ruger, and many other bolt gun mfgs. offering them.
Averageman
01-10-17, 15:59
Maybe something like a predator rifle is what you desire.
They are not a light as a hunting rifle, yet not as heavy as a tactical rifle.
I don't have any working knowledge of these types of rifles, but they are getting pretty popular with Savage, Ruger, and many other bolt gun mfgs. offering them.
That's a heck of a good suggestion.
I was looking at a precision rifle web site and there was an article on a Savage Model 10 they were working on, it appeared to have a lot going for it.
Meta-Prometheus
01-10-17, 23:31
I agree with the others that 308 Win or 30-06 is going to be a better cartridge starting out.
Based on your location in the Pacific Northwest and what you are looking for in a rifle, a Kimber Adirondack may be something to look at. Lightweight, stainless, threaded and is available in 308 Win (and 3 other calibers). Put some decent glass on there and you'd have a hard to beat lightweight rig. You might look at Zeiss Conquest HD5 scopes for their Lotutec coating, again simply because you are in the Pacific Northwest.
That's true. I live in the Pacific Northwest. That would be my AO.
I have lived and hunted in the Pacific Northwest for 30 years. Four of those years I was a long-tabber on active duty stationed at Ft. Lewis. A couple of thoughts on this post and on a couple of your other posts:
1. Learn to hunt before you need to hunt.
2. A 308 or 30-06 with 180-grain bullets is plenty around here, plus you can find ammo everywhere.
3. Put 100 rounds through a 300 WM before you buy one, especially a light one. Plenty of folks have trouble managing a lightweight 30-06, and a lightweight 300 WM will be a vicious bitch in the recoil department. It's easy to lie to yourself about recoil during the course of shooting up one box of ammo. Five boxes will cure you of that.
4. There's a reason that the typical hunting rifle sold in the US weighs about eight pounds--that's where the ability to hump it all day long intersects with the sweet spot for recoil management.
5. Binoculars are more important for the hunter than rifles. You'll put more meat on the table with $1,000 binos and a $200 rifle than the other way around.
Seriously, get a stainless/synthetic Ruger Hawkeye, Remington M-700, or Winchester Model 70 with a 22" barrel in 270, 308, or 30-06. Put a Leupold scope on it and you can hunt for the rest of your life.
Okie John
^^Spot on.
In particular the tip on glass/binos and "learn how to hunt, before you need to hunt".
I have lived and hunted in the Pacific Northwest for 30 years. Four of those years I was a long-tabber on active duty stationed at Ft. Lewis. A couple of thoughts on this post and on a couple of your other posts:
1. Learn to hunt before you need to hunt.
2. A 308 or 30-06 with 180-grain bullets is plenty around here, plus you can find ammo everywhere.
3. Put 100 rounds through a 300 WM before you buy one, especially a light one. Plenty of folks have trouble managing a lightweight 30-06, and a lightweight 300 WM will be a vicious bitch in the recoil department. It's easy to lie to yourself about recoil during the course of shooting up one box of ammo. Five boxes will cure you of that.
4. There's a reason that the typical hunting rifle sold in the US weighs about eight pounds--that's where the ability to hump it all day long intersects with the sweet spot for recoil management.
5. Binoculars are more important for the hunter than rifles. You'll put more meat on the table with $1,000 binos and a $200 rifle than the other way around.
Seriously, get a stainless/synthetic Ruger Hawkeye, Remington M-700, or Winchester Model 70 with a 22" barrel in 270, 308, or 30-06. Put a Leupold scope on it and you can hunt for the rest of your life.
Okie John
There is so much great advice in this post. I would add that learning to hunt before you have to is probably the most important thing that was said. Killing an animal is easy, harvesting an animal, getting everything from it you can is not. I didn't grow up hunting, this last season was my eighth. The first thing I learned about hunting is that the work starts when you pull the trigger. Tracking, gutting, dragging(or quartering) the animal out is a lot of work. Then when you get it home you have to process and clean all of the meat, and portion it out accordingly. With modern conveniences like electricity, running water, and a vacuum sealer, processing takes me hours. I can't imagine trying it in a eotwawki situation. Just something else to think about while you consider your options.
Personally I have a 30-06 and a 270, I would feel comfortable with either one as a go to in a situation like you're considering.
That is all very, very level headed advice. And, it's probably the right way to go. But, I'll tell you the truth. I had this idea that if things did go south, I'd want a rifle that could hunt anything in the Nortwest US. And, given that I'm not a hunter, but am am a slightly above average shot in general, a big magnum round would bring down game better than a .308 if I didn't put the round exactly where I want it.
Given that the odds are minuscule in the extreme that I'll ever be in that situation it's best that I start out with a .308 or a 30-06. The 300 Win Mag sure is sexier to goofballs like me though :)
JRC
The fact that you referenced "sniping" and shit hitting the fan, I honestly don't know if you're being serious. But if you are, it wont matter what rifle you have because you'll probably be dead in short order.
P.s. a 308win is a very capable hunting round (like up to and including brown bears), and much more pleasant to shoot...not to mention cheaper.
Rock-N-Ruin
02-26-17, 07:49
I have lived and hunted in the Pacific Northwest for 30 years. Four of those years I was a long-tabber on active duty stationed at Ft. Lewis. A couple of thoughts on this post and on a couple of your other posts:
1. Learn to hunt before you need to hunt.
2. A 308 or 30-06 with 180-grain bullets is plenty around here, plus you can find ammo everywhere.
3. Put 100 rounds through a 300 WM before you buy one, especially a light one. Plenty of folks have trouble managing a lightweight 30-06, and a lightweight 300 WM will be a vicious bitch in the recoil department. It's easy to lie to yourself about recoil during the course of shooting up one box of ammo. Five boxes will cure you of that.
4. There's a reason that the typical hunting rifle sold in the US weighs about eight pounds--that's where the ability to hump it all day long intersects with the sweet spot for recoil management.
5. Binoculars are more important for the hunter than rifles. You'll put more meat on the table with $1,000 binos and a $200 rifle than the other way around.
Seriously, get a stainless/synthetic Ruger Hawkeye, Remington M-700, or Winchester Model 70 with a 22" barrel in 270, 308, or 30-06. Put a Leupold scope on it and you can hunt for the rest of your life.
Okie John
X2.. Maybe look into a good lever gun, lots of forest in Wa.
I agree with the others that 308 Win or 30-06 is going to be a better cartridge starting out.
This.^^
My take on the original question.. Hunting rifle vs tacticool sniper build.. Really truly and honestly, it's hard to use one for the other. What I mean is I have a GAP M40a5 which is the epitome of tacticool sniper, but man.. that thing weighs 13 pounds plus with glass. I much rather carry an option that weighed half that for real hunting where I might be stalking quite a bit. Every gun I have serves it's own purpose.
If you're worried about a .308 not being enough gun, a 30-06 would harvest just about anything in North America. The ammo is cheaper than .300 Win Mag, and the recoil will be much less.
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