View Full Version : Short shuck your Rem 870?? No. Not really.
During a 1981 training program at the Texas prison, my 870 shotgun class was taught by armorers who trained at the Remington factory. From them I learned about a certain 870 operator error that few understand. Many call it short shucking. This term implies incomplete movement of the action to the rear and then pushing the action forward and hearing a click when pulling the trigger. Yes, the shooter had an empty chamber. But note. He can get an empty chamber when pulling with great force all the way back and then pushing or slamming with great force all the way forward. When having this malfunction, trainees are told that they short shucked. They did not. When hunters have this malfunction with 870s, they might say that they short shucked. They did not. My opinion is that 99.99% of what people call short shucking is a different error. The big clue is that in these instances the next in line shell never made its trip onto the follower. Why?
If the action moved rearward and activated the second shell latch to release the next shell, and this next shell didn't jump onto the follower, what happened? Answering this question will explain the malfunction, which has three events:
(1)In a fraction of a second at the instant of firing, recoil in some instances will propel the shooters hand on the fore end to jump back about 2 3/4 to 3 inches.
(2)As fore end moves rearward, action bars activate the 1st shell latch. It moves toward the mag tube's centerline.
(3)Recoil thrusts the gun backwards with enough force to allow the next in line shell to move forward in the tube. This shell had been held by the 2nd shell latch. But now the 1st shell latch in no. 2 above--having already been activated--catches and holds the shell. Thus, it is not now available to be placed on the follower. The shell had to move forward merely 1/8 inch from one latch to the other.
As the fore end is pumped to the rear to eject the empty and then move forward, it does so without a live shell. The next in line shell was not available, because it was "trapped" by the 1st latch. The shooter cycles the action, pulls the trigger, and click. High recoil loads like buckshot/slugs are a factor, but light weight as found in security 870s can be a another factor. In hunting versions I experienced the malfunction when using magnum loads and switching from a 30 inch heavy barrel to a 26 inch light contour barrel. I altered my grip to adapt. Several variables can interact to cause this type malfunction: improper grip technique on fore end, heavy recoil, and to a lesser extent the gun being lighter.
Leaveammoforme
01-06-17, 21:02
Would a fresh magazine spring minimize the ammo bounce? Or, is this a possible issue inherit to 870's in general?
I've tried extremely strong uncut Wolff springs and had the same result. Yes, its inherent in 870s. Remington eliminated it in the 1100. Mossberg's design does not permit its occurring. The old Win Model 12 had included a part that caused a small split second hesitation to prevent it. The hesitation was completely unnoticeable. If you ever pick up a M 12 and try to cycle the action, after snapping it, you have to push forward before pulling back on the slide. I've tried many, many times to short shuck an 870 and never have been able to do it. You can screw up and not eject the empty by moving the action too slowly, but that's not short shucking.
SeriousStudent
01-07-17, 00:30
I have a Winchester Model 12 that was made in 1928. You do have to push the slide forward just a scosch before you cycle it.
The three 870's I have will short stroke if I fail to fully cycle the slide. I've done it a couple of times on the range. It's also why a practice a LOT with my shotguns. You have to keep the reps up, just like dry practice with a pistol trigger.
And I always replace the magazine springs with a Wollff as soon as I get a shotgun.
I had a Mossberg 590A1, and got rid of it. It's a great shotgun for lefties, which is why I had it. But everyone I train with shotguns currently shoots right-handed.
I think a lot of people just don't realize how much maintenance a shotgun needs. And when they go down, they go down hard. As in, trip to a gunsmith hard.
Agreed. Notice that our commonly used l.e. and military shotguns have been sporting guns with shortened barrels. I think that one reason that they have held up is that they are seldom fired. In law enforcement agencies, wear and tear comes from some degree of neglect and from being knocked around. During the Vietnam War, Stevens sold the government a pump shotgun that had a reputation for being unreliable. They were discarded and another issued when they croaked. During the 1970s, Smith marketed a pump riot gun for l.e., which was based on the old Noble shotgun of previous decades. It too was a huge failure and embarrassment to S&W. The famous Ithaca 37 pump of military and law enforcement fame lacked a disconnect and would slam fire with careless use. The 37 could not be disassembled without first removing the stock and then removing receiver screws. How could a grunt or other GI have kept this weapon clean? So, the 870 and 590 series shotguns compare favorably to some others that have been issued.
Our shotguns--designed to shoot at birds, ducks, rabbits, squirrels and deer--are most certainly not robust weapons. As you stated, they will go down fast. All in all the 870 and 590 series are good but not indestructible or unbreakable as some in the past have claimed.
SeriousStudent
01-07-17, 01:24
...... All in all the 870 and 590 series are good but not indestructible or unbreakable as some in the past have claimed.
Which is why I own five shotguns. :cool:
Our shotguns--designed to shoot at birds, ducks, rabbits, squirrels and deer--are most certainly not robust weapons. As you stated, they will go down fast. All in all the 870 and 590 series are good but not indestructible or unbreakable as some in the past have claimed.
I don't want to disagree, but define 'go down fast.' The picture below is one from a tutoral I made on replacing the ejector and ejector spring on an 870 before I retired. Remington no longer teaches this in their armorer courses and I wanted to make sure the guy taking over shotguns knew how to do it.
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By serial number the receiver was made between 1978 and 1983. In the 36 years we had this shotgun, I would estimate it fired well over 45,000 roads based on how our shotgun training progressed. I was replacing the original ejector, not sure about the spring because we can often use the same rivet. Look at the wear in the receiver where the action bar rides, those edges are sharp.
This is one of about 2 dozen Remington 870's we use for shotgun training. 870's in general are durable shotguns. A home defense user, or a hunter, will probably never have to replace the things that I was replacing on our high-mileage shotguns, in particular action bar lock springs and action bars.
Unbreakable, no. Durable, yes.
One mistake a lot of people make in runiing pump action shotguns is that they either pull back with on the forearm, or maintain a kind of neutral hold.
The malfunction you described can be prevented by pulling into the shoulder and pushing forward on the forearm. This prevents the hesitation cycling you described and also serves to dampen recoil to the shoulder.
This is especially important to 870's if you are pulling back on the forearm, you are actually pulling the action bar against the action bar lock in the trigger plate. This action doesn't allow the lock to automatically disengage as the hammer fall resulting in a hesitation or jerky cycling action.
We just sent 8 Remington 870's to surplus solely because of broken ejectors. When I went through armorer's training they lightly touched on this repair but recommended we send the shotgun in to Remington for repair. When I talked with Remington several months ago they wanted the entire shotgun in to check it over before doing the ejector repair. I wasn't about to send them in to find that we would be charged for something close to a new shotgun at agency pricing from a law enforcement distributor. I ordered 5 new Police 870's and will order 5 more next week when I get back to work next week. I sure hated to do it because the shotguns could have continued in our training classes for years. We are talking about 100's of thousands of #4 buck out of these shotguns and they go down due to an ejector! Prior to this, the biggest problem we had was magazine latch bars coming unstaked which was an easy fix.
26 Inf, you are indeed correct that 870s are durable as are the 590 series. About the "go down fast" phrase", rereading my post I see it as a general statement meaning that if not maintained, then problems will occur and the guns will cease functioning. Of course, this concept applies to all equipment and unless a specific item is specified and explanation given, it has little merit. That part of my statement lacked merit. Your experience with shotguns is extensive from a professional standpoint. My experience is 99% hobbyist. I had hoped that you would respond.
Oh, most of the clicks I have heard on the line was because the shooter did not pull the forearm back far enough. Some people don't get the "pull the forearm back hard" idea and the reason for it.
SeriousStudent
01-07-17, 13:31
I don't want to disagree, but define 'go down fast.' The picture below is one from a tutoral I made on replacing the ejector and ejector spring on an 870 before I retired. Remington no longer teaches this in their armorer courses and I wanted to make sure the guy taking over shotguns knew how to do it.
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By serial number the receiver was made between 1978 and 1983. In the 36 years we had this shotgun, I would estimate it fired well over 45,000 roads based on how our shotgun training progressed. I was replacing the original ejector, not sure about the spring because we can often use the same rivet. Look at the wear in the receiver where the action bar rides, those edges are sharp.
This is one of about 2 dozen Remington 870's we use for shotgun training. 870's in general are durable shotguns. A home defense user, or a hunter, will probably never have to replace the things that I was replacing on our high-mileage shotguns, in particular action bar lock springs and action bars.
Unbreakable, no. Durable, yes.
I do agree with you. My point was that most typical shotguns or lever-actions require a trip to the gunsmith when they break. Not that they break all the time. It's usually not an end user remedy like replacing an AR bolt to return the weapon to service. It often requires the services of a trained armorer such as yourself.
I'd love to get into one of the Remington shotgun armorer classes, but unfortunately they seem to restrict them to LEO or agency support folks.
I have a pair of 870P's, and a Wingmaster, in addition to a Winchester Model 12 and and a Beretta 1301. I made a point to have them checked out by a highly-experienced shotgun mechanic prior to making them defense guns. I am fortunate to have such a person nearby.
And this is the Wingmaster SBS in the hands of a friend, during a recent training class. The pic was shot by Voodoo_Man, who is a member here:
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It's a joy to shoot.
SeriousStudent
01-07-17, 13:34
Oh, most of the clicks I have heard on the line was because the shooter did not pull the forearm back far enough. Some people don't get the "pull the forearm back hard" idea and the reason for it.
Agreed, I tell people to treat it like a cheap hammer from Harbor Freight - treat it hard and handle it forcefully.
Chickenhawks
01-07-17, 14:16
Thanks! Good info. You learn something new every day.
Even with thousands of students over the years and literally many tens of thousands of rounds through 870s, we experienced this rarely. One of the reasons is because I always encourage them to work WITH the recoil and not fight it. They are expected to pump the action immediately after pulling the trigger, even if they are not ready to fire a follow-up shot; the next round will still already be chambered.
With practice, this becomes instinctive, and is one of the factors that can give the pump-action shotgun its very fast speed. This is also why I don't believe in the "pull back into your shoulder and push forward on the pump" in training. I tested it extensively, and found it just does not work for our style of training and the need for simple, fast and completely instinctive actions.
Plus, I learned a long time ago that saving the 'sound" of a pump being racked in order to scare off the bad guy, almost never works in real life ... and certainly NEVER works in polar bear country. (If you wait to pump that second shot, you will get eaten.)
I would also like to add one further point. I have seen a few "short strokes" over the years, but certainly, as the OP pointed out, far less than are actually attributed to a short stroke. But if its an 870 made in the last 15 years, and if it has a magazine extension, add to the possible problems that a shell got momentarily delayed in the tube.
I have found (again through extensive testing) that it is almost always a very fast shooter combined with a shell that gets momentarily stuck at the two-piece magazine joint. In all the years I have been training, I have never found a solution to this problem. I have tried every follower, spring and tube on the market, and none of them have worked, especially on anything built on an Express shotgun line.
The only thing is, 99% of all shotgun shooters would never experience this, simply because very few people can actually pump the action this fast. (I am talking those people who can achieve split times of .22 to .25 seconds, shot-to-shot, on an 870.)
A shell momentarily slowed down when it reaches the joint of a two-piece tube has similar symptoms of a short stroke, and EXACTLY the same symptoms as the situation related by williejc.
If its made in the last 15 years, and its an 870 with a two-piece tube, suspect the quality control at Remington. (By the way, the 870 Police is NOT made on some super-secret special assembly line any more, nor is it less prone to problems with rough chambers or two-piece tubes. I have seen some 870 Police shotguns in the past 10 years that were almost as bad as the Express shotguns.)
By the way, this is also why, when the rest of the world wants longer tubes, greater capacity and more extensions ... I take OFF the extensions from my two-piece tubes on all my personal bear guns and replace them with end-caps.
I would much rather have four that work 100% of the time, than six that work 99% of the time. 99% is neither acceptable odds for me or for skydiving.
Plus, if I miss with four slugs, I deserve to get eaten.
My malfunctions occurred during duck or dove hunting using heavy loads. Careless procedure was the cause. Using a weak or neutral grip allowed the hesitation cycling described in numbers 1-3 of my first post. I thought that I was pumping as soon as I fired but still ended up with an empty chamber. I'm not a professional in any sense of the word; therefore, I am not qualified to offer training advice. A an old school skeet/trap/duck hunter did show me how to eliminate or prevent the malfunction without consciously pushing forward. Following his advice, I do this: I place my index finger along the side of the fore end. With my gun, the finger ends up pointing in a 40 ish degree angle and fits into the groove on the fore end. This arrangement lets me pump fast as hell and never have the unwanted empty chamber. Why? Because it allows that split second to pass when recoil might cause a weak grip to open the action and thus start the 1-3 sequence above. I use the technique on all pump guns. The finger in the groove part is not necessary but occurs with my Wingmaster. This method may or may not be suitable to teach in classes with large numbers of students. Whenever I shot buckshot or slugs over the years I made an effort to use a strong grip. The problem sneaked up on me during hunting when I switched from a 30 inch barrel to a light contour 26 inch barrel, which was much lighter.
Obviously millions of shooters have spent a lifetime shooting 870 12 gauges and never had a malfunction. The intention of the post is to show that many 870 malfunctions are not short shucks. Understanding this fact can help others be aware that their grip must not be weak or neutral when shooting buckshot/slugs/other magnum shells. If the shooter does end up with an empty chamber after pumping, then the most probable cause is 1-3 explained in the original post.
Has anyone noticed the similarity of the 1-3 malfunction to the cruiser ready position in the 870?
I would also like to add one further point. I have seen a few "short strokes" over the years, but certainly, as the OP pointed out, far less than are actually attributed to a short stroke. But if its an 870 made in the last 15 years, and if it has a magazine extension, add to the possible problems that a shell got momentarily delayed in the tube.
I have found (again through extensive testing) that it is almost always a very fast shooter combined with a shell that gets momentarily stuck at the two-piece magazine joint. In all the years I have been training, I have never found a solution to this problem. I have tried every follower, spring and tube on the market, and none of them have worked, especially on anything built on an Express shotgun line.
The only thing is, 99% of all shotgun shooters would never experience this, simply because very few people can actually pump the action this fast. (I am talking those people who can achieve split times of .22 to .25 seconds, shot-to-shot, on an 870.)
A shell momentarily slowed down when it reaches the joint of a two-piece tube has similar symptoms of a short stroke, and EXACTLY the same symptoms as the situation related by williejc.
Some 3 gun competition shooters who use Remington 870 shotguns are aware of these problems, and here is the fix. It's a modified action bar to change the timing when you pump it. It works.
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Joe Mamma
Joe, thank you for this information. I have wondered when some wise person would develop a fix, and this it. Simple too!
We just sent 8 Remington 870's to surplus solely because of broken ejectors. When I went through armorer's training they lightly touched on this repair but recommended we send the shotgun in to Remington for repair. When I talked with Remington several months ago they wanted the entire shotgun in to check it over before doing the ejector repair. I wasn't about to send them in to find that we would be charged for something close to a new shotgun at agency pricing from a law enforcement distributor. I ordered 5 new Police 870's and will order 5 more next week when I get back to work next week. I sure hated to do it because the shotguns could have continued in our training classes for years. We are talking about 100's of thousands of #4 buck out of these shotguns and they go down due to an ejector! Prior to this, the biggest problem we had was magazine latch bars coming unstaked which was an easy fix.
Two big things that they don't teach in the Armorer's course anymore are replacing action bar lock springs and the ejector. Pretty sure the ejector is because the Remington rivets stick up above the receiver and have to be milled, ground or filed level and then finished to match the receiver. I filed them using duck tape to mask as much as possible, then dumped on cold blue and covered them with sidesaddles.
I kind of understand as I would take one of my own 870's to a gunsmith to have it done in order to have it refinished correctly, but police firearms are a more utilitarian tool.
Many of the factory armorers courses have been dumbed down in the last decade or so. It used to be when you went to a manufacturer's armorer course you were taught by someone that had built the guns over a career in the factory, worked in warranty repair, and the custom shop. Now, you often get some retired military guy or retiree from one of their big agency customers who they taught to teach armorer's courses. After a while they memorize the lesson plan, but that is all they know, in many cases. Not all, but many.
Some 3 gun competition shooters who use Remington 870 shotguns are aware of these problems, and here is the fix. It's a modified action bar to change the timing when you pump it. It works.
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Joe Mamma
In your experience isn't this more of a problem with extended mag tube guns when they get down to less than half the tube?
I've timed guys who go low two's, even high ones on multiple target splits with 870's; on straight doubles they easily beat most semi's. Generally these are hunters or guys who have shot a lot of skeet with 870's. I don't ever recall having seen this malfunction on a standard tube 870 with a good spring.
Since we are rolling on 870's - does anyone know if the S&J Hardware safety will flip for left handed use? They say 'appreciated by left-handed shooters.' Is that just a function of the oversized button?
Thanks.
In your experience isn't this more of a problem with extended mag tube guns when they get down to less than half the tube?
I've timed guys who go low two's, even high ones on multiple target splits with 870's; on straight doubles they easily beat most semi's. Generally these are hunters or guys who have shot a lot of skeet with 870's. I don't ever recall having seen this malfunction on a standard tube 870 with a good spring.
That's a great question. I don't really know how to answer it. I have only seen this with extended mag tube guns. However, the guys I have seen who run their 870s hard pretty much all have extended mag tube guns. So it's not really good data.
With regards to how many rounds remain in the tube when they have problems, I don't know. I didn't pay too much attention to it because I didn't realize it was a factor at the time.
By the way, one company that has done the 870 action bar modification in the picture I posted above is Gun Metal Inc. (located in Maryland): http://www.gunmetalusa.com
I have no ties to the company, but thought someone might want to know this.
Joe Mamma
Chickenhawks
01-08-17, 12:32
Good info! I love the very knowledgeable folks on this forum.
Just to confirm, the problem I have noticed with recent manufactured 870s with extended tubes that results in a 'click' on an empty chamber, is primarily on the 2nd or 3rd shot out of the tube. This is where a shell will make the jump between the two tubes. It usually happens only when the shooter is pumping quickly.
I have never experienced it with a one-piece tube, and never with the new extended one-piece design Remington is now using on some models.
I have tried every tube polish trick; every aftermarket follower (never had a factory follower break); every extended tube; and every aftermarket spring. Some worked for a while, but nothing gave me 100% reliability, especially on certain models built on the Express frame.
By the way, one company that has done the 870 action bar modification in the picture I posted above is Gun Metal Inc. (located in Maryland): http://www.gunmetalusa.com
I have no ties to the company, but thought someone might want to know this.
Joe Mamma
Thanks, I was getting ready to buy a new set of action bars and go to someone with a TIG welder, just because. :)
ETA: I didn't see it on their site, so I emailed them.
Good info! I love the very knowledgeable folks on this forum.
Just to confirm, the problem I have noticed with recent manufactured 870s with extended tubes that results in a 'click' on an empty chamber, is primarily on the 2nd or 3rd shot out of the tube. This is where a shell will make the jump between the two tubes. It usually happens only when the shooter is pumping quickly.
I have never experienced it with a one-piece tube, and never with the new extended one-piece design Remington is now using on some models.
I have tried every tube polish trick; every aftermarket follower (never had a factory follower break); every extended tube; and every aftermarket spring. Some worked for a while, but nothing gave me 100% reliability, especially on certain models built on the Express frame.
I have a Mossberg 930 JM Pro, they are pretty much know for having feeding problems at the interface between the tubes. I went down to the LGS and Greg chamfered the end of the mag tube with an oversized reamer. That seems to have fixed it in the several hundred rounds I've fired since then. Not enough to give a real opinion.
Remington 2 piece tubes--made for decades--required that the first section be screwed onto the tube and then top section then be screwed into the first section. This method was suggested a best procedure for reliable function.
20 years ago when examining my 870 security weapon with the factory extension tube, I noticed that 2 shells had compressed such that an outward ring or collar formed at the juncture of plastic and metal section. These shells would not chamber. Ammo was premium law enforcement. Of course, this deformation was not typical, and I had never seen nor hard of it. But, I learned that it is indeed possible. Thus checking shotgun ammo that has been loaded in extension tubes is a good idea. Now I like 1 round tubes but not for reasons of possible shell deformation. On my 590a1, which comes from the factory with a 5 shot tube, the 1 shot version allows the gun now to be available with 6 rounds without the extra bulk or weight of longer tubes.
Similarly and in recent months I discovered a deformed 9mm round in a box of premium l.e. ammo. If I load it a magazine--handgun, rifle, or shotgun--I inspect it first.
I fire several hundred rounds through an 870 each year and it has an extended magazine tube. Once in a blue moon it will eject an empty hull and not chamber a loaded cartridge when operating the action quickly.
So this may be due to me outrunning the magazine spring? It rarely happens, but when it does I assume it is operator error.
Chickenhawks
02-07-17, 04:07
I am continuing to research this issue. I have tried, quite literally, just about every spring, follower and extension tube on the market. Nothing ever worked. If you pump fast enough - we are talking .25 to .30 splits - the 2nd or 3rd shell out of the tube fails to chamber.
It now appears I was wrong about the two-piece tube. With advice from a member of these forums, I began to research the issue of what Remington calls "shell surge." Under recoil, the shotgun moves back. With a tube full of shells that have enough mass, the shell column can effectively move forward in the tube, resulting in the next shell missing the right-side shell latch by a fraction (1/8") and the result is a failure to fire. (I hope I have this right.)
This explains a LOT. It explains why it is not from short-stroking, and also why it ONLY happens when shooting; one can test it with dummy shells all day long and it will work flawless. It also explains why it only happens with extended magazine tubes. The length of the shell column must have enough mass (resistance to motion) to effectively move the entire column forward that 1/8" under recoil.
Remington began to research shell surge years ago on their police shotguns. They generally recommend the longer (22") police magazine spring as a fix, and their concern was with the heavier police slug or buckshot loads.
It now all makes sense. An extended tube full of birdshot or a standard tube full of slugs may have enough mass to jump forward in the tube under recoil. (It doesn't actually jump forward; it's the shotgun that jumps backwards.)
So the solution to those very few people who can pump the shotgun that fast, just may be the modification pointed out earlier in this thread. The problem is that there may be other issues that are created by trying to solve this timing problem, and it will take extensive testing.
I want to work with a gunsmith, preferably up here in Canada to solve any cross-border issues, who will do a similar modification to a factory new fore-end tube assembly. That way, I get to try them back-to-back on the same shotgun, and on the same day. Plus, my training shotguns aren't out of service for a month or two.
If this modification actually works, and holds up to repeated durability and reliability testing ... it will be a TREMENDOUS market for a gunsmith who wants to buy factory-new assemblies and sell the pre-made upgrade. There would be hundreds of people interested. (I need four right off the bat.)
Maybe it's just me, but I would spend $60 on an upgraded tube, rather than sending mine off to the gunsmith for modification.
I would appreciate any comments or feedback on this issue, or suggestions for gunsmiths who want to upgrade and stock these tube assemblies for retail sale.
After years of searching for a solution, I think we are getting closer. 99% of all the 870 shooters in the world would never approach the speed of shooting where this would be a problem, but I kinda expected this forum is comprised of the 1% folks.
Linebacker
02-07-17, 04:50
I have a remedy for the 870 problems, Mossberg 590. :-)
Chickenhawks
02-07-17, 05:15
Got one. Snatched up a rare 14"-barrel 590A1. (Perfectly legal up here in Canada.)
I am saving it for a custom shotgun project. It is a great shotgun, and I did some basic smoothing plus an XS Big Dot sight and a better feeling safety, but after 870s (I have six of them) the 590 just seems so ... finicky. There are a LOT of moving parts on these things!
But I will say one thing. Mossberg has always been the price-point gun, compared to the 870, but QC has been slipping for years at Remington. My 590A1 is impressively-built. I just need to shoot it, oh about ... 10,000 rounds to get it to loosen up a bit.
But don't tell anyone, but the short-barreled shotgun that I carry in polar bear country is no longer my 14" 870 with Urbino stock; it is the 590A1. But, that STOCK! Does that darn thing fit ANYONE? I shortened mine an inch and a half with a saw, and then installed a single-point sling adapter plate. It's not that I would ever use a single-point sling; it just adds back some of the length for shooting in summer clothes, and then I take it off for parka season.
I tried a single-point sling once. I walked 100 feet. It hit me in the balls five times. I took it off.
It could be I was doing it wrong. That's what my wife says about why we have no children, but that's another story.
Although, technically it could be connected. Single-point slings are great for shooting ranges and building entries but if you use one in bear country, you ain't NEVER going to have more children, if you get what I mean.
Got one. Snatched up a rare 14"-barrel 590A1. (Perfectly legal up here in Canada.)
I am saving it for a custom shotgun project. It is a great shotgun, and I did some basic smoothing plus an XS Big Dot sight and a better feeling safety, but after 870s (I have six of them) the 590 just seems so ... finicky. There are a LOT of moving parts on these things!
But I will say one thing. Mossberg has always been the price-point gun, compared to the 870, but QC has been slipping for years at Remington. My 590A1 is impressively-built. I just need to shoot it, oh about ... 10,000 rounds to get it to loosen up a bit.
But don't tell anyone, but the short-barreled shotgun that I carry in polar bear country is no longer my 14" 870 with Urbino stock; it is the 590A1. But, that STOCK! Does that darn thing fit ANYONE? I shortened mine an inch and a half with a saw, and then installed a single-point sling adapter plate. It's not that I would ever use a single-point sling; it just adds back some of the length for shooting in summer clothes, and then I take it off for parka season.
I tried a single-point sling once. I walked 100 feet. It hit me in the balls five times. I took it off.
It could be I was doing it wrong. That's what my wife says about why we have no children, but that's another story.
Although, technically it could be connected. Single-point slings are great for shooting ranges and building entries but if you use one in bear country, you ain't NEVER going to have more children, if you get what I mean.
I have the Magpul stock on my 590A1 and it sounds like you would benefit from one as well. The adjustable spacers solve the winter / summer transition too.
I'm the op. I've experienced this problem with only two shells in the mag tube while duck or dove hunting with heavy loads. Shells surging or moving toward the front of the tube becomes a problem if and only if the action moves rearward that specific short distance and activates the first shell latch. This latch then catches the shell that would have been released upon "pumping". Maintaining forward pressure on the pump handle or fore end eliminates the problem. I accomplish this task by extending my left trigger finger along the side of the fore end. This position provides the momentary hesitation needed to delay opening the action.
See 26thInf's post in this section for the method he taught to prevent the occurrence. All shotguns with a mag tube have shell surge upon firing heavy loads. To my knowledge, only the 870's design causes a problem. I am an apologist for the 870 because it's my favorite shotgun. I can teach anybody how to drive one. 26's method is better for cops or soldiers.
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