View Full Version : Anyone else think the AR isn't comfortable
futurerider103
01-08-17, 09:32
After having several AR's varying from bottom of the barrel polymer to Wilson Combats I currently have a PSA lower Armalite 16in dissipator upper and last weekend I took a buddy out shooting and I brought along my first center fire rifle an old Norinco SKS that I've had for the past 19yrs and I can honestly say I prefer the feel of the traditional style stock. Anyone else?
sevenhelmet
01-08-17, 09:44
I kind of get where you're coming from, but that's why there are so many options for stocks, grips, and hand guards. Traditional stocks have that familiar "first rifle" feel to me, so I kind of fall into them, where an AR might take a adjustment or two if I'm not familiar with the configuration or haven't shot in a while. I often think other people's ARs are uncomfortable (especially if they have an A2 grip, I loathe that thing), but I'm happy with mine.
Get the BCM gunfighter grip, makes a world of difference.
futurerider103
01-08-17, 09:55
The pistol grip in general is what I've had the problem with mostly. Even shotguns with pistol grips don't do it for me.
As odd as it may sound I may enjoy the featureless stock for the AR better than the normal AR furniture. Too bad is ugly
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170108/5d694e42c6778b61113fa966efef836d.jpg
This has got your name written all over it!!
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t414/ghchhisc/SCR-002_left_1024x1024_zpsbd0gc3zh.png
I prefer the traditional stock on a 1903, M1A or M1 Garand for target shooting. I find it more comfortable to shoot them precisely.
I think the ergonomics of the AR15 are better for a fighting rifle.
futurerider103
01-08-17, 10:09
The Keltec SU16A looks pretty good to me. I'd like to get a chance to shoot one of these.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170108/142970250b903310c31a134c31a19120.jpg
When it comes to bolt actions, I prefer a traditional stock. A bolt action with a pistol grip our a thumb hole stock is a bad idea.
On a self loading rifle, it's six to one and a half dozen to the other
No... I think rifles with traditional style stocks are much more uncomfortable.
ARs are pretty much perfection to me.
What BGREID said. My wife even noticed the difference with the BCM Gunfighter grip.
futurerider103
01-08-17, 10:31
The bcm and magpul k2 grip is more vertical than the standard ar15 grip which essentially would pull my hand and arm down lower I would think
AR is probably the most ergonomic gun I've ever handled, and I've handled most.
I also find ARs to be the most ergonomically pleasing rifles I've ever shot.
Moonlight Again
01-08-17, 11:38
Burn the heretic!
Nah, man, I get where you're coming from. There's something to a more traditionally styled stock that's still very appealing. I'm a big fan of the whole Garand-M1 Carbie-FN49-Tokarev-G43 setups. All my ARs are traditional AR, though, with the separate pistol grip.
Horses for courses, though. Even that "Tusken raider" featureless rifle might be fun to play with, and I've always thought the Ares SCR was a nifty little alternative.
Fatorangecat
01-08-17, 11:39
It depends on the application. For a precision rifle I was more used to a bolt gun. I spent a lot of money a Sphur mount with a lower centerline and a couple different stocks to get a natural check weld. I ended with the Magpul STR. It feels less like a tube.
Renegade04
01-08-17, 11:44
I also find ARs to be the most ergonomically pleasing rifles I've ever shot.
Same here. I have several WWII U.S. rifles in addition to a Loaded M1A. While they are all nice rifles to shoot, I much prefer the ergonomics of the AR platform. I have never shot an AR that was not comfortable and I have shot plenty of them.
futurerider103
01-08-17, 11:54
I really liked the way the Magpul UBR felt and adjusted but that still doesn't change the grip.
556BlackRifle
01-08-17, 12:10
Get the BCM gunfighter grip, makes a world of difference.
^^This^^
I really like the magpul grips I own but I like the BCM GF even more.
AR is probably the most ergonomic gun I've ever handled, and I've handled most.
I can't say for sure that I've handled most but I've handled a hell of a lot and agree 100%.
I also find ARs to be the most ergonomically pleasing rifles I've ever shot.
Me too. That is why I have abandoned the AK platform, and others in favor of the AR. Yes, I still have, and shoot my Russian SKS's, but they are more of a novelty for me, although in a pinch a very relevant rifle.
ruckusjuice
01-08-17, 12:45
I've always found ARs very ergonomic for me, even more so after I started using the more vertical grips like BCM. I prefer shotguns with traditional stocks but I love my ARs.
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It seems kind of funny, but I guess I like weapons as I've first seem them, kind of an instinct thing. I had a pretty bad broken wrist which ended up bone-on-bone, the angle my wrist was in shooting shotgun was very uncomfortable, work set up my favorite 870 with a pistol grip speed-feed, more comfortable to shoot, but I hated it, didn't like the feel, it became my not favorite 870; same with the M-14, the first large caliber rifle of any type I had significant rounds on. I enjoyed shooting it, a while back I had a chance to fire an M1A SOCOM. Didn't much care for it.
Love the AR platform, I run the B5 Mod 23 grip, with EXOS ti-7 stocks on all the ones I keep.
Different strokes for different folks. I have found very few firearms that I couldn't make work well.
Just the FN P90... I can't explain how much I didn't like that thing.
Probably has to do with HOW you are shooting them. If you are a chicken winger, the older stock style might be the shiz. If you are tucking your elbows, a traditional stock is a huge PITA.
Exactly what SPDSNYPR said.
Depends on the way the gun is set up.
I don't like A2 grips..........the nub bothers me. Nor do I like really vertical styled grips. All my fixed mag NY compliant guns get Magpul MOE, or MOE + grips..........I also have one of the Thordsen Stocks on a featureless build and I like it a lot feel wise, IMHO it is must to have an ambi-selector switch and and extended mag release on this set up, looks wise it's gay, and I wish I didn't have to have it.
I don't like A2 stocks, A1's are OK, the Magpul fixed rifle stock is pretty good, and the Thordsen stock is not bad. The Magpul fixed carbine stock is decent too but about as short as I would ever want a stock. I HATE GI style CAR and M4 stocks, I am a scuffy dude and they are hair pullers for sure. I run MOE carbine stocks for all my adj. stock needs and the wobble/play in them has never bothered me enough to pony up the extra $ for the CTR or any thing more expensive, except for the SL stock, I like that stock a lot.
I am not a fan of carbine length drop in handguards. I have long forearms and feel "bunched up" on a carbine length drop in handguard and my hand always wants to naturally be right about where the FSB is. I have one carbine length upper (a 6920) and it wears a Magpul SL handguard and is just that extra bit longer to where I don't mind it. The rest of my uppers sport mid and and rifle length gas systems/handguards (all magpul MOE's) and that's the most comfortable to me.
I have not joined the free float crowd yet. Some day, and when I do it will be with a slim handguard, I have a few buddies with quad railed FF HG's and I don't find them comfortable, and think they are front heavy.
The perfect feeling AR to me is a 16" midlength, standard FSB with and MOE stock and grip, drop in MOE handguard with an AFG on it. With nothing more than a 2 point sling, a small light, a small RDS set up for lower 1/3 co-witness, and a folding rear back up sight.
The AR is King for comfort IMO.
The more vertical pistol grips make it even better.
Ditto for the slim rails over the past few years.
Furbyballer
01-08-17, 21:06
Give me a k2+ and just about any stock with a decent cheek weld and ill be good. Hate the a2 grips with a passion.
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No... I think rifles with traditional style stocks are much more uncomfortable.
ARs are pretty much perfection to me.
This. ARs and aks are g2g. Traditional stocks are ok for short periods but my wrists tend to cramp up and I have limited control.
Pistol grip carbines I can shoot alll... day... long and have no problems. The more vertical grips (bcm mod3 vs a2) re even better. I actually like the stock pistol grip on aks.
I never thought of the AR/M16/M4 in terms of comfort. When I first shot my issued weapon in 1978, it was the coolest thing I had ever fired. The recoil was practically nothing, it was easy maintain and accurate. For me, it was a killing tool that I carried with me for 22 years. Even after I retired, I don't think of it for comfort. It's still a tool.
The Resistance
01-09-17, 02:06
The pistol grip in general is what I've had the problem with mostly. Even shotguns with pistol grips don't do it for me.
As odd as it may sound I may enjoy the featureless stock for the AR better than the normal AR furniture. Too bad is ugly
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170108/5d694e42c6778b61113fa966efef836d.jpg
Um....... uh.........HELL NO! That buffer tube containment device with separate shoulder thingy made out of a shop vac, a politician and a pogo stick looks very ergonomic for an octopus. However, I really like the crack in the concrete. Can you take another picture without that crazy thing in it so we can get a better look at the concrete and crack, maybe a close up of the weeds? And what's up with the magazine release on that thing? Are my eyes playing tricks on me or is that more ergo dynamic voodoo too?
You asked.
The AR15 family of weapons is probably the most ergonomic and comfortable rifle one can shoot.
thopkins22
01-09-17, 05:50
Probably has to do with HOW you are shooting them. If you are a chicken winger, the older stock style might be the shiz. If you are tucking your elbows, a traditional stock is a huge PITA.
This is almost guaranteed to be your answer. If you're holding your rifle like the old marksmen did, then you're not holding it correctly.
Try this, get in your shooting stance with the rifle in your shoulder, proper cheek weld, and so forth. Holding the rifle there with your left hand(assuming you're right handed/right eye dominate,) drop your right hand to your side. Bring it up again as though you're shaking hands with the grip. Relax the muscles, and make sure your elbow is staying at its natural droop. Doesn't that feel better now?
You don't hold pistols like a rifle, and you shouldn't hold a traditionally stocked/gripped rifle the same way you hold a rifle with a true pistol grip.
The AR15 family of weapons is probably the most ergonomic and comfortable rifle one can shoot.
Truth. The AR is the single firearm on the planet that has options for every shape, size, and level of expertise. If something's bugging you, either fire up google and find the solution, or design it yourself and become fabulously wealthy. Ham sammich!
johnnyrebel87
01-09-17, 06:52
My only semis are ARs, but I prefer traditional stocks. Even when I was a paid PH, I carried ARs too but always preferred a bolt gun for deer. Everyone else was quite skeptical when I took deer with it, as I was the first on the ranch to do so. Hornady bulk soft point 556 is a great neck shooting round.
If you could sink an ar15 into a completely wooden traditional form factor, I would get one for hunting. Just cuz. Have long considered a m1a.
And if you ever catch a group of javvies running up the mountain 400 yards out, youll quuickly show traditionalist hunters why ARs rock.
I got a Mini-14 (16 inch with factory flash hider) to play with a little while ago.
I took it out for the first time to zero it's irons along with my AR-15 just to shoot them back to back. It's a BCM-upper 14.5 in LW middy. H-buffer in the lower. (Rifle has furniture I like) Both using the same three types of ammo I'd brought out, .223 and 5.56. I do not shoot reloads or steel case in AR's anymore (and never had in this upper) and my Mini will never see it either.
I thought my AR was soft shooting. It's not. The Mini-14 had far, far smoother recoil and operation. I couldn't believe the difference. It made the AR feel harsh.
I thought my AR had a "decent" trigger for an AR. (It's just a broken-in "GI" semi auto single stage trigger group) The Mini-14 had a very light 2-stage trigger that provided slightly rough, but tactile feed back. The roughness will either work out, or I'll polish it out. But the break was very nice. The AR trigger was so heavy and shitty in comparison it has to go/be upgraded as I'm disgusted by it.
I cut down the Ruger polymer stock on the Mini 14 and I like it just fine. (down to about 12 1/4 in pull IIRC)
Neither gun has malfunctioned. This is the ONLY AR-type rifle I've had that has not malfunctioned and the last 5.56 Ar upper I have. I'm sure it's coming and after a couple malfunctions I'll sell it and be done with gas 5.56 AR's.
So yea, OP, I know what your saying.
The grip is a little small in diameter, but that can be fixed by any number of aftermarket grips available . . .
Mr. Goodtimes
01-10-17, 11:23
No.
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I got a Mini-14 (16 inch with factory flash hider) to play with a little while ago.
I took it out for the first time to zero it's irons along with my AR-15 just to shoot them back to back. It's a BCM-upper 14.5 in LW middy. H-buffer in the lower. (Rifle has furniture I like) Both using the same three types of ammo I'd brought out, .223 and 5.56. I do not shoot reloads or steel case in AR's anymore (and never had in this upper) and my Mini will never see it either.
I thought my AR was soft shooting. It's not. The Mini-14 had far, far smoother recoil and operation. I couldn't believe the difference. It made the AR feel harsh.
I thought my AR had a "decent" trigger for an AR. (It's just a broken-in "GI" semi auto single stage trigger group) The Mini-14 had a very light 2-stage trigger that provided slightly rough, but tactile feed back. The roughness will either work out, or I'll polish it out. But the break was very nice. The AR trigger was so heavy and shitty in comparison it has to go/be upgraded as I'm disgusted by it.
I cut down the Ruger polymer stock on the Mini 14 and I like it just fine. (down to about 12 1/4 in pull IIRC)
Neither gun has malfunctioned. This is the ONLY AR-type rifle I've had that has not malfunctioned and the last 5.56 Ar upper I have. I'm sure it's coming and after a couple malfunctions I'll sell it and be done with gas 5.56 AR's.
So yea, OP, I know what your saying.
I really like the mini! I regret having sold my last one. The only downside to me is having to send the whole rifle in if I break anything. My primary rifles are Bula m14 variants and I love the type.
bamashooter
01-10-17, 14:01
Never given it thought. Arguably the furthest thing from my mind.
titsonritz
01-10-17, 16:16
I'm comfortable with ARs.
Doc Safari
01-10-17, 16:26
OP: My dad hated rifles with pistol grips. He was a traditionalist that preferred the Mini-14 to any other rifle capable of accepting large capacity mags.
I'm just the opposite: I'll take a rifle with a pistol grip any day of the week. If you've ever been out in the boonies with a conventional rifle and bumping into a branch causes you to nearly drop it, you'll appreciate the pistol grip from then on. I've never been in a situation where I had my hand on the pistol grip and almost dropped the rifle if I hit a tree branch or had to duck some other obstruction. When I carried my SKS there were a few occasions where I'd get my strong arm bumped and nearly let go of the gun.
QuickStrike
01-10-17, 17:42
Maybe you are just too used to traditionally stocked long guns.
How is it uncomfortable? Too cramped?
Maybe adjust the length of pull on your AR a bit longer?
futurerider103
01-10-17, 17:45
There uncomfortable part is how my hand is what I feel under the gun instead of inline to the gun
QuickStrike
01-10-17, 17:58
Do you feel the same when holding a pistol?
futurerider103
01-10-17, 18:01
Nope. I think the pistol is because it's way out in front and not under me scrunched up
The way the AR's barrel is in line with the stock means if you bring the sights up to your eyes, only the toe of the stock will be resting on your shoulder.
We were taught to bring the sights to our eyes, not our eyes to the sights, that may be old school.
With just the toe of the stock resting on your shoulder, it's harder to control recoil, but just let your cheek bone do the job. You still see folks shooting this way, I sure do.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/ScreenShot2014-01-31at84123AM_zps8e0b7559.png (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/ScreenShot2014-01-31at84123AM_zps8e0b7559.png.html)
It's easier to control recoil with most of the butt pad in your shoulder pocket, but you'll scrunch up as you said.
Systems like the old roller locked HKs and most of the European designs have a drop in the stock, though the barrel is still in line with the stock. You can rest most of the butt pad in the shoulder pocket and see the sights without scrunching.
futurerider103
01-10-17, 19:18
I don't know if you can tell from this video or not how I shot
https://youtu.be/oQBwMR2jr3Q
I find them very agronomical..
If you find an AR uncomfortable, you are a goddamn Communist.
556BlackRifle
01-10-17, 23:16
No.
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My favorite post in this thread. Well said Mr.GT.
I get what the OP is saying. I have bolt action rifles that are more comfortable and I attribute this to shooting from bipods or the bench where as the AR is more from a standing position. So that I understand. I do think the 7+ LBS of oppressive weight of the AR from the standing position may be affecting the OP. :sarcastic:
Why is this a thread again?
To me the AK feels more comfortable to shoot, but I will not deny that the AR15 has better ergodynamics in terms of placement of various controls and the ease of the safety.
Nope. I was raised with traditional stocks and that's all I shot for 40 something years. When I started shooting ARs, it took me about 3 trips to the range until I was ready swear allegiance to the MSR rifle configuration. ARs are MUCH better.
Nope. I was raised with traditional stocks and that's all I shot for 40 something years. When I started shooting ARs, it took me about 3 trips to the range until I was ready swear allegiance to the MSR rifle configuration. ARs are MUCH better.
The traditional stock points better, faster and with more accuracy in snap shooting.
Pistol grips give better control, especially when shooting full auto.
It all depends on how you shoot.
After having several AR's varying from bottom of the barrel polymer to Wilson Combats I currently have a PSA lower Armalite 16in dissipator upper and last weekend I took a buddy out shooting and I brought along my first center fire rifle an old Norinco SKS that I've had for the past 19yrs and I can honestly say I prefer the feel of the traditional style stock. Anyone else?
The age old "cruiser vs crotch rocket" debate.
Only when cleaning them with bare and dry hands.
No, the AR is about the most ergonomic and comfortable rifle ever made.
For me, an AR is more comfortable than anything else. I'm sure that has a lot to do with it being the first firearm I really got to know. I'd shot many others, but you know, I wasn't sleeping with them like I was an AR.
Fit and comfort of any firearm is personal and subjective. But with a seemingly infinite combination of grip, stock, and fore end combinations, the AR platform is about close to a universal fitting gun there is. With some experimentation, you're bound to eventually find something that suits you.
Nope. I was raised with traditional stocks and that's all I shot for 40 something years. When I started shooting ARs, it took me about 3 trips to the range until I was ready swear allegiance to the MSR rifle configuration. ARs are MUCH better.
I guess I just have to disagree with you. I think the MSR is just better in every respect except for the fact that the MSR requires a wider case or scabbard.
Fluffy Bunny
01-15-17, 02:19
I don't know if you can tell from this video or not how I shot
https://youtu.be/oQBwMR2jr3Q
It looks like you're basically just standing straight up and shrugging the rifle up to your face. That's gonna be uncomfortable. I recommend that you try shooting in a stance that requires less shrugging. I can handle an ar-15 comfortably despite the fact that most days I can't raise my bad shoulder more than like half an inch
.
I ain't a tier-1 operator, nor any kind of shooting coach, so I'll go ahead and give you an example of someone who is both and who shoots without a big shoulder shrug: Larry Vickers, esteemed member of our community.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Algt2Cr1Mks
A more-vertical grip (I like BCM) and a 1/3 cowitness red dot are ergonomic aids worth considering.
Comfort is relative. They are more comfortable than a gunshot wound you could have negated had you an AR to protect yourself with.
Comfort is relative. They are more comfortable than a gunshot wound you could have negated had you an AR to protect yourself with.
Exactly.
These aint shoes. They are tools. Tools for killing.
No different than a sword.
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Quote Originally Posted by stwings View Post
Comfort is relative. They are more comfortable than a gunshot wound you could have negated had you an AR to protect yourself with.
Exactly.
These aint shoes. They are tools. Tools for killing.
No different than a sword.
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Going with the tool analogy - people that use tools a lot tend to get tools that feel comfortable to them and fit the purpose. A finish carpenter doesn't buy hammers at Wal-Mart, a mechanic know the difference between a 12 point and a 6 point combination wrench and when to use each one, and a swordsman doesn't willingly go into battle with a mameluke sword he bought at clothing sales.
These distinctions are what makes the AR a great platform for both the beginner and the discerning user. You can buy differing levels of quality, based on your needs and desires, and as you become more adept the AR can easily be modified or upgraded to keep up with your needs.
Truly a genius design.
These aint shoes. They are tools. Tools for killing
So is a Mosin Nagant
So is a Mosin Nagant
Yes it is. In military config it has worked since the turn of the last century. Thanks for making my point
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Yes, it works. But, it's slow, uncomfortable to shoot and a poor combat weapon, especially compared to it's contemporaries
Hammertime
01-16-17, 20:49
Feels really comfy to me like an old recliner. Don't know what the hell OP is doing with his. Maybe you should get a Saiga in 7.62x39 with the old hunting stock / unconverted. Probably suit you better.
???
HT
Yes, it works. But, it's slow, uncomfortable to shoot and a poor combat weapon, especially compared to it's contemporaries
1891 contemporaries, 1941 contemporaries, or 1969 contemporaries?
In 1891, the US was still using the Trapdoor, the Germans were using the Gew 88, the French the Lebel, and the British the Lee-Medford (the Mk I with the eight round magazine). The Mosin-Nagant is far superior to the Trapdoor, better than the Lebel, on par with the Gew 88, and only inferior to the Lee-Medford. . .
SniperOverwatch
01-17-17, 14:09
The pistol grip in general is what I've had the problem with mostly. Even shotguns with pistol grips don't do it for me.
As odd as it may sound I may enjoy the featureless stock for the AR better than the normal AR furniture. Too bad is ugly
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170108/5d694e42c6778b61113fa966efef836d.jpg
Yes I had the same experience when I just started out. I was frankly pretty upset and almost sold my gun. The geometry of the standard USGI grip and those with a similar angle REALLY hurt my wrist and hand when shooting and I couldn't get a good grip on them like I can on my pistol. So I switched around to a couple and settled on the BCM Mod2. Best grip ever and totally changed the way I see an AR.
The USGI stock was less of a problem, but I've always found cheek weld and LOP to be important with any gun and the USGI didn't do to well on the former. The B5 SOPMOD Enhanced stocks are absolutely perfect now.
So with the BCM Mod 2 grip and the B5 Enhanced SOPMOD stock, I'm done looking around. My guns feel great and I love shooting them standing, bench, or prone.
(I do think the pistol grip style is awkward prone though. I don't know why everyone prefers these AICS chassis-type stocks on their precision rifles...)
builder197
01-17-17, 21:00
I'm very comfortable with the AR, but I will say that with earmuffs on, it can be tough for me to get a very comfortable sight picture. A traditional stock is easier to get a good cheek weld and sight picture, even if the in-line recoil benefit of the AR is lost.
I had done my research and found that scope mounts 1 3/8" above the flat top matched the sight plane of iron sights. I wanted my rifle hold to be similar from irons to scopes, so I bought scope mounts that matched iron sight height.
Through use, I found that slightly higher scope mounts (1.5" above the flat top or higher) were easier for me to use, so I prefer the higher mounts now. As an example, the Rock River mount is heavy and looks clunky, but is almost .3" higher than iron sights, and more comfortable for me to use with scopes and ear pro. The lower mounts look better, and have advantages in trajectory, but the higher mounts are just a better fit for me.
I've settled on Aero mounts at 1.5" height, though I prefer the Rock River mount in function, but not appearance.
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