View Full Version : Maybe a dumb question
I want to buy or else assemble a M4 style carbine. I was thinking Colt 6920, but I really prefer the look of a railed gun with the factory type front sight gone and a fold down, like a Troy, instead.
Is it a simple matter of removing the sight and replacing it with a low profile gas block? If so... Is it hard to remove the flash-hider? I was leaning towards a s&w mp15T because it is set up pretty much how I want mine to look, but maybe I can assemble one with as good or better quality for similar $?
Thanks for thoughts and ideas!
Jon
Also.... is a midlength setup going to be better or more reliable than say a colt 6920??
I bought a Colt 6520 and had ADCO cut down the front sight, change the upper to an M4 flattop, and install a DD 9.0 handguard over the shaved FSB. I then used a Troy flipup front BUIS on the rail. Worked out great, and after I sold off the A2 upper I broke even on the purchase price of the M4 upper.
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/196/196030/folders/171062/1926930ARComplete.jpg
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/6983/dsc0282mediumch1.jpg
Thats the look I want! Nice!!
I bought a Colt 6520 and had ADCO cut down the front sight, change the upper to an M4 flattop, and install a DD 9.0 handguard over the shaved FSB. I then used a Troy flipup front BUIS on the rail. Worked out great, and after I sold off the A2 upper I broke even on the purchase price of the M4 upper.
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/196/196030/folders/171062/1926930ARComplete.jpg
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/6983/dsc0282mediumch1.jpg
If you build your own you might want to look into a GG&G Dominator upper. I'm having one built up with their free float forearm.
http://gggaz.com/index.php?id=35
Yes, it's possible to do it yourself, remove the two taper pins of the FSB towards the right side of the gun, you will have to hit it very hard to budge those FSB pins.
Then install a Troy or Samson midlength rails on the barrel nut, but you would need to first cut your delta ring and remove the spring and spring retainer.
With the Troy, Samson or other brands two piece type rails removing the barrel is not required and same with action block and barrel wrench are not required.
I would recommend using a LaRue gas block but you could use any low profile block.
Last would be installing your Troy flip up front BUIS on your rail.
The midlength gas system is not more reliable than the carbine gas system but the action is a little smoother.
I have a midlength barrel and a LaRue 9.0 midlength rails on my 6721 which I installed myself with action block, vise and barrel wrench.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y232/Alpha-Romeo3/Hunting/Colt6721Operator-TroyBUIS-1-MD.jpg
I know my type of rails is not your type but I just wanted to show you my rig that I did myself.
The 6920 is a mil-spec weapon. With that said, a middy gas system is more reliable IMHO.
You could get into a BCM 16" upper, gas block, MI 9.0 rail and flip ups for about the same price as the GG&G Dominator and it would be more in spec.
C4
The 6920 is a mil-spec weapon. With that said, a middy gas system is more reliable IMHO. ...C4
I believe that there are definitely advantages to the mid-length gas system compared to the carbine-length (in a 16" barrel), but I'd be quite hesitant to say that it is going to be more reliable than an LE6920. More durable? All else being equal, perhaps the bolt would have a longer life (i.e., higher mean time between failures, a.k.a. MTBF).
One of the reasons the LE6920s are in such short supply is that they are the gold standard for reliability (especially with Ken Elmore's Reliability Package). Another reason is their combination of MIL-spec-ish features, which is matched by very few others.
I understand the need for some to have longer rails for attachment of a VFG, white light, sling mount, AN/PEQ-2, bipod, and kitchen sink, but most of us don't have a need for ALL of that, and it's quite easy to over do it and add excessive weight and spend cash that might be better invested in good mags, ammo, and training.
If your need is for form rather than function, then by all means buy whatever looks kewl to you. There are plenty of other folks that need what the Colt has to offer.
My rail is purely there to cover up a bit more barrel and to mount the light that everyone thinks I mount too far back.
Are the S&W M&P15T's mid length or just look like they might be?
What I really want is a rifle that looks like the M&P15T but is mid length.
What's the cheapest way to acheive that, but stick with the good quality parts??
Thanks for the help guys!
The M&P 15 is not a real mid-length.
If you want a currently available mid-length of good quality, try the CMMG 16” Mid-Length Upper from www.cmmginc.com and option up to a YHM mid-length free-float handguard for an additional $128.
http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/?shop=1&cart=447566&cat=27&
My first post!
I just built an upper with a CMT upper, CMT charging handle with PRI Big Latch, CMT BCG, Rainer Arms 16" mid-length 1/7 stainless barrel with a Stag ambi rifle extension, LaRue gasblock, LaRue 12' rail, Troy front and rear BUIS, and Troy medievil muzzle break. Total price: about $1200.00
I have another upper with a LMT upper, CMT charging handle with PRI Big Latch, CMT BCG, BCM 16' mid-length 1/9 chrome-moly barrel with an M4 extension, PRI flip up front sight, LaRue 9" rail, Troy rear BUIS, and Troy medievil muzzle break. Total price: about $1120.OO
The LMT assembled lower with stock was about $350.00; the CMT/Stag lower with stock was about $250.00. Lowers can be purchased less expensively, but I was new to this and didn't know much.
I am using a Aimpoint ML3 with LaRue cantilever mount on the LMT upper, but need to decide on some glass for the CMT.
You can build an upper for half that price or less, but after owning a few factory rifles, I think that you can build a rifle that is exactly what you want for a competitive price.
Additionally, some of the sponsors, like ADCO, will build you the exact rifle that you want for a very nominal additional fee if you would prefer to have the rifle built by someone more experienced.
It's the rails and the sights that really seem to add up the costs; that is until you get into the optics, and then the sky is the limit. Nonetheless, it is less expensive, in my experience, to build the rifle that most closely resembles what you ultimately want than purchasing something more affordable and later paying for modifications. These were my first two builds, and it was not difficult and only a few special tools were required.
I'll post a couple of photos when I learn to shoot the camera.
Cool!! Thanks for the great price breakdown!! That will help a lot!!
Looking forward to some pictures!
Jon
What I really want is a rifle that looks like the M&P15T but is mid length.
What's the cheapest way to acheive that, but stick with the good quality parts??
Thanks for the help guys!
My first choice for a M&P15T clone middy build, best bang for the buck would be +1 what Grant said, Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM) Mil-Spec mid length 1/7 Gov't profile with M4 feedramps, low profile gas block and CMT M4 upper (same company that makes the S&W M&P15).
Get a MPI tested, properly staked CMT BCG and CMT CH from Grant of G&R Tactical.
For the rails, you could copy what S&W used which is a Troy 10" handguard or get Midwest Industries which are good value rails that are similar to the design of Troy.
Stag Arms are good lowers and came from the same CMT company that the S&W get their lowers.
The only holding factor on getting all your components would be the availability of the Bravo barrels, they make production runs in batches and you will have to wait for the next batch to be available again (you could get them from Grant when they are available).
My second and third choice would be CMMG and Sabre Defence Industries (sabredefence.com) 1/7 (1/9 barrel twist are standard but 1/7 twist could be special ordered).
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