View Full Version : Mosin Nagant Conversion: Archangel
As much as I wanted to like my Mosin Nagant, I had to modernize it.
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Much of the work was just removing the internals of the Mosin, and removing the pins from the leaf sights. Everything else was pretty much a drop in evolution.
Pro Mag Archangel body, Texas Precision Muzzle Break, Timney trigger, Brass Stacker Rail, and a long eye relief UTG scope with lighted reticle.
The muzzle break takes the bite out of the recoil.
The Timney trigger makes a world of difference in feel of the trigger.
The Brass Stacker doesn't require a rifle to be drilled and tapped, nor does it require a bent bolt.
I needed about 9-10" of eye relief given the forward position of the scope.
Finally completed. I have a bipod coming in tomorrow.
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Mr. Goodtimes
01-12-17, 22:22
Just when I thought m4carbine had hit rock bottom...
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I suggest you:
https://m.popkey.co/de645d/b0zkj.gif
I won't hassle you for it. I have mixed opinions on it.
But, when you posted this, you opened yourself up for a world of trolling.
I am moderately surprised it's been so long without more.
Just... I know how it is making a thread and having high hopes for a welcoming... You probably won't get one like that. Dunno why, I say: Do you, bro.
But, just don't expect the best.
Hopefully, ymmv.
I suggest you:
https://m.popkey.co/de645d/b0zkj.gif
I won't hassle you for it. I have mixed opinions on it.
But, when you posted this, you opened yourself up for a world of trolling.
I am moderately surprised it's been so long without more.
Just... I know how it is making a thread and having high hopes for a welcoming... You probably won't get one like that. Dunno why, I say: Do you, bro.
But, just don't expect the best.
Hopefully, ymmv.
I didn't expect much. It was better to at least try it, since it just sat in a corner, unused.
Different strokes for different folks, I know.
I will try it out this weekend.
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If you get a chance to get it out to a long range, I would be interested in knowing how far it will consistently shoot to.
Leaveammoforme
01-13-17, 13:54
I'll take some heat off of you CDR. A shared load is easier to carry :smile:
It's respectable from a collectors' point of view to make non-permanent or irreversible changes. Your rifle can always go back stock.
I'm from the other camp. It's your rifle, make it bend a knee to your will. Most people see accuracy improvements when the barrel is shortened to the 18-22" range.
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/leaveammoforme/20161016_191513-1-1_zps2xpwwo27.jpg (http://s447.photobucket.com/user/leaveammoforme/media/20161016_191513-1-1_zps2xpwwo27.jpg.html)
Cut to 20", Dovetail delete, Drill/tap scope mount. Turn down bolt handle made from grade 8 bolt and differential check plug. Then ground down to not resemble a bolt and check plug.
I'll take some heat off of you CDR. A shared load is easier to carry :smile:
It's respectable from a collectors' point of view to make non-permanent or irreversible changes. Your rifle can always go back stock.
I'm from the other camp. It's your rifle, make it bend a knee to your will. Most people see accuracy improvements when the barrel is shortened to the 18-22" range.
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq194/leaveammoforme/20161016_191513-1-1_zps2xpwwo27.jpg (http://s447.photobucket.com/user/leaveammoforme/media/20161016_191513-1-1_zps2xpwwo27.jpg.html)
Cut to 20", Dovetail delete, Drill/tap scope mount. Turn down bolt handle made from grade 8 bolt and differential check plug. Then ground down to not resemble a bolt and check plug.
Wow. Now, that is impressive.
I have a Sako Tikka that I use for precision shooting. This Mod was more for fun, and the process of doing it. I'm a physician so this was out of my typical comfort zone.
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Leaveammoforme
01-13-17, 16:16
Wow. Now, that is impressive.
I have a Sako Tikka that I use for precision shooting. This Mod was more for fun, and the process of doing it. I'm a physician so this was out of my typical comfort zone.
I completely understand. You couldn't tell by looking at it but I've got somewhere in the neighborhood of 80 hours (spread over a couple years) in mine. A lathe and mill could've shrunk my time investment. But, where's the fun in that?
Mine shoots great with PPU 150 grain soft points. I have achieved real life clover-leafs (not the internet type) with the PPU. However, they were only 3 shot groups. Kind of a punishing rifle when you remove weight and stay with the steel butt plate.
I had an issue with the mount so I was unable to properly zero it. Last night, mounted the scope again and used a laser bore sighted to get it very close to zero. This will make me have a more productive range outing this weekend.
Again, I'm no gun smith. I'm a physician who just tinkers with stuff. Lesson learned.
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To get the utmost of accuracy out of M-Ns, slug the bore and pick the 303 Enfield type jacketed bullet appropriately. It will never beat a precision bolt build, but will shoot with one if you do your part.
My fun w/ my 91/30 (stock) is the weekly Winter (any weather, even in snowstorms ala Stalingrad!) 'offhand only' 50/100 yard mil-surp bolt gun shoots. Lots of fun, excellent 'trigger time' practice and cheap when using cast bullets over 13-grains of Unique. Nickle-sized groups at 50Ys benched for 5-shots, mostly placing 4 in a ragged hole with 1 just out far enough to spoil the 'one hole grouping'.
I'm working on some heavy (170s) FMJ reloads for the 91/30, but I had a PSL that shined w/ reloads (150s or light ball), especially after having the action/barrel cryo frozen by NitroFreeze (only $60) that stopped all group wandering after she'd heat up.
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As others have said you are going to get a mixed bag of responses. I am going to mix up the bag a bit. Both with cars or guns, I do not believe in non-functioning, barely working but pure and pristine museum pieces, garage queens or, with one exception, wall hangars. You took a firearm that was out of service and gently put it back into service. From what I can tell if you ever want to sell it as it was take everything apart that you did and reassemble the original rifle. When I either buy or inherit an antique that is out of service it gets a complete disassembly, frame off, cleaning, servicing and repair or replace. If an original piece is good quality but broken, I replace it with the same or as close as I can get to it from the same manufacturer and if the OEM piece was crap, time for a modern upgrade. Again everything I own works and can do the job its intended to do, doesn't matter if its a year or a hundred years old. I like what you did here. To be blunt it looks bad ass. Assuming that you can get your scope mount and bore sight issues wrung out, I am really interested in how well it shoots, ie feel, how accurately it shoots and how far out she can consistently reach out and put a hurt on something.
Good luck and keep us posted.
As mentioned in previous posts, I have mixed feelings.
When I look at the MN I have, this is where it spends it's life when not being shot or cleaned:
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I would be lying to say I haven't thought about the stock conversions and trigger upgrades.
But, every time my mind starts dwadling, I remind myself that these rifles can still be had for 100-200 dollars. Frugality, when comparing the cost of the upgrades to the cost of 1 or 2 more rifles, I would take the rifles every time.
Now, ultimately, I don't knock it. My cheap-basterdness shouldn't impact anyone else... Besides the wife.
So, I can see that, and think: Someone put a lot of time and effort in making that into something different.
The MN is one of the rifles I shoot best, and yet the one that I leave in the corner of my work-at-home office. It's not something I would be worried about mucking up, leaving out, taking in the elements. Long story short, it's not one of the safe queens, and for what I paid for it, and have into it, I don't need it to be. If I modded it up like either of those, and invested the time and money, it'd turn into a safe queen; then what other rifle do I prop in the corner? Haha.
ETA: Oh, and ignore the lack of trimming and the set of blinds behind the rifle. My "Weekend-Paint-and-Re-Trim" turned into a week long project. x.x
As others have said you are going to get a mixed bag of responses. I am going to mix up the bag a bit. Both with cars or guns, I do not believe in non-functioning, barely working but pure and pristine museum pieces, garage queens or, with one exception, wall hangars. You took a firearm that was out of service and gently put it back into service. From what I can tell if you ever want to sell it as it was take everything apart that you did and reassemble the original rifle. When I either buy or inherit an antique that is out of service it gets a complete disassembly, frame off, cleaning, servicing and repair or replace. If an original piece is good quality but broken, I replace it with the same or as close as I can get to it from the same manufacturer and if the OEM piece was crap, time for a modern upgrade. Again everything I own works and can do the job its intended to do, doesn't matter if its a year or a hundred years old. I like what you did here. To be blunt it looks bad ass. Assuming that you can get your scope mount and bore sight issues wrung out, I am really interested in how well it shoots, ie feel, how accurately it shoots and how far out she can consistently reach out and put a hurt on something.
Good luck and keep us posted.
I just didn't enjoy shooting it as it was in the previous form.
Luckily I figured out my problem regarding zeroing it. I'll shoot it this Saturday. I also acquired a Romanian SAR-1 AKM. It will be a 7.62 day for me.
The Timney trigger makes it a lot more pleasant experience and the stock makes the recoil more tolerable. I forgot to weigh this so I'll do that. My range only goes out to 250 yards. I usually just get happy hitting the gongs at different distances...
I acquired a Cheaper spotting scope (Celeston 100mm) that gives me more range than what I had before (Leuopold Ventana).
I realize people have mixed feelings about mods like these. I have mixed feelings about mods on Handguns, too. But in the end. It's up to the owner to decide what value they place on their decision. To me, it looks prettt bad ass. The trigger is phenomenal and the recoil is easily tolerable.
I'll go the other way and say that you did a good job modding it. You turned a boring 91/30 into a configuration you like.
Its a $200 mil-surp rifle. I don't know why people get hung up over it. There are millions of these Nagants in circulation. Unless you have a very collectible model, there's no harm in modding it the way you want to.
I'm a fan of milsurp rifles myself, esp SKS and M-N's. I've owned a few SKS's and Mosin's, but currently only have a M44 in original shape. In the past I have modded a cheap 91/30 that I bought for $140 with an aftermarket stock and scope.
My only other suggestion is to get the polished bent bolt and call it a day.
Well I had an excellent time with it after I had it sighted.
Recoil was markedly improved with the muzzle break and stock.
The trigger was awesome.
I had it to one inch at 50 yards. I'll try to see how I shoot tomorrow at 50 yards again, and I'll try to see it's accuracy at 100 yards.
Honestly it went from a gun that just sat in a corner that I didn't enjoy shooting, to something that I look forward to using.
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I just didn't enjoy shooting it as it was in the previous form.
What in the hell do you find unenjoyable about shooting a completely unoptimized cartridge out of a nuke-proof, 37 foot long rifle with an ill-fitting steel buttplate and grease seeping out of it for the last 75 years no matter how hard you've tried to stop it?
Unnecessary impracticality is at the very core of the most enjoyable things in life. Guns, trucks, relationships, everything. A Mosin's awfulness is also it's allure. Embrace the grease stains, inaccuracy, and trying to fit all 8 feet of it in the vehicle just like the rest of us!
What in the hell do you find unenjoyable about shooting a completely unoptimized cartridge out of a nuke-proof, 37 foot long rifle with an ill-fitting steel buttplate and grease seeping out of it for the last 75 years no matter how hard you've tried to stop it?
Unnecessary impracticality is at the very core of the most enjoyable things in life. Guns, trucks, relationships, everything. A Mosin's awfulness is also it's allure. Embrace the grease stains, inaccuracy, and trying to fit all 8 feet of it in the vehicle just like the rest of us!
I can't even find a damn gun bag for it. I have a big plastic shell for it. It's a beast.
As I said, I like it. I will now shoot the heck out of it
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2" at 100 yards. It wasn't match ammo. I'll take it.
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For all the money you spent in ruining a milsurp you could have sold the Mosin, and bought a decent bolt gun that's made for what you're wanting. Waste of time, money, and an old battle rifle. Meh...
As for accuracy, I have the barrel free floated.
To test for true accuracy, I will have to acquire match ammo, and even considering reloading for it to see who bad it really is.
As an example, I was shooting a Savage bolt action yesterday at 50 yards with clusters at 50 with Eley ammo. I tried that with federal and had it at a whopping 2" at 50. I didn't have any CCI with me, but I'd guess it would be a little looser group size. Ammo has a lot to do with accuracy.
I understand that the tolerances of barrels are also all over the place, for this with the closest tolerances from the Finnish Mosin with .3095, versus the Russian 0.311-0.314 barrels.
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