View Full Version : The diff between M4 & AR...Semantics?
Guys,
Forgive my ignorance, but what makes a rifle an M4?
There are AR 15s.... There are M4s....
But if you had to point and say, "No, that one's the M4." How do you distinguish the two?
M4 feedramps, M4 profile 14.5" barrel, carbine length gas system, with semi, burst, and safe or semi, auto, safe fcg, manufactured by Colt, is an M4. Others maybe identical, or similar in outward appearance with different barrel lengths or profiles, fcg, etc. These are often referred to as M4geries.
-RD62
P.S. Someone will be along quickly to correct me if I have missed anything.
M4 feedramps, M4 profile 14.5" barrel, carbine length gas system, with semi, burst, and safe or semi, auto, safe fcg, manufactured by Colt, is an M4. Others maybe identical, or similar in outward appearance with different barrel lengths or profiles, fcg, etc. These are often referred to as M4geries.
-RD62
P.S. Someone will be along quickly to correct me if I have missed anything.
You forgot the stock :D
Anyways assuming you mean about firearms that are available for civilians, the M4(gerie) will come with a 16" barrel, which happens to be the magic number to keep it from being an NFA item. Also the selector can only move between safe and fire (semi).
You want a 3 rnd burst or full auto, then if you can find them, be prepared to pay about as much as you would for a high end sports car for the parts and be prepared to wait for months to get BATFE approval and a bunch of other stuff.
So shorter barrel length, semi auto fire only, collapsible stock, M4 Feed ramps in barrel and upper receiver, thats about what comprises your off the shelf M4 that a civilian can lay their hands on.
There are a bunch of different manufacturers who produce their version of the M4. See here (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642) for a comparison of how they stack up and what each component means to determine which rifle will suit your needs.
Ridge_Runner_5
09-18-08, 12:36
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You forgot the stock :D
You want a 3 rnd burst or full auto, then if you can find them, be prepared to pay about as much as you would for a high end sports car for the parts and be prepared to wait for months to get BATFE approval and a bunch of other stuff.
Not a chance. The M4 came into being after '86. Civilians cannot procure them even if they pass NFA qualifications.
ANYTHING with the carbean gas system is an M4 for me.
My 11.5" SBR with an A1 fixed buttstock is an M4 to me.
You can get all assed up about the technical specifications of a military m4 an all that crap. But to me that's a gay waste of time and effort.
You have the RIFLE, the M4, and the MIDDY for the metrosexual types. :p And that's it... plain and simple.
Anyways assuming you mean about firearms that are available for civilians, the M4(gerie) will come with a 16" barrel, which happens to be the magic number to keep it from being an NFA item.
14.5" plus a pinned and wielded FS works just fine to bring it to the legal 16", and keeps the same length as a real M4 with a FS. You just can't remove the FS without it being a SBR NFA item. A 16" barrel plus a FS is about 1.5" longer. I have both and the 1.5" makes a bigger difference than you would think it would. YMMV
14.5 plus a pinned and wielded FS works just fine to bring it to the legal 16", and keeps the same length as a real M4 with a FS.
:confused:
Run that by me again....
A perm attached FS would need to be longer then a standard FS to make 16" but a true M4 would still be shorter; don't you think?
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A perm attached FS would need to be longer then a standard FS to make 16" but a true M4 would still be shorter; don't you think?.
Well, maybe I am the one who is confused, and it wouldn't be the first time. Is the real M4 a 14.5" including the FS, or without the FS?
The real one is a 14.5" barrel, PLUS the flash hider. It's just that it's not permanent on a "real" M4 Carbine. You'd have to get an extended A2 hider to make it 16", though.
The real one is a 14.5" barrel, PLUS the flash hider. It's just that it's not permanent on a "real" M4 Carbine.
That is what I thought, but maybe I didn't say it well in my previous post. My Noveske N4 M4gery has a 14.5" barrel, plus a pinned and welded FS, bringing it to a legal 16.1". If you have a 16" barrel, plus a FS, the FS doesn't have to be pinned and welded to be leagl, but it is 1.5" longer than a real M4. That is what I was trying to say earlier and assumes the FS is of sufficient length to bring the 14.5" to 16". I hope I said it better this time.
Failure2Stop
09-18-08, 16:21
It doesn't really bother me terribly when people describe their DPMS collapsable stocked 16" barreled gun as an M4. But that don't make it so.
While I am not a snob about it, but I prefer to adhere to actual definition as closely as possible, simply to avoid confusion. Lumping all Stoner direct impingement systems under one name that is the designator of a specific model is wrong.
I prefer to just refer to them in general as ARs, and then define the type, as in, " I have an AR Carbine".
But that's just me.
You can get all assed up about the technical specifications of a military m4 an all that crap. But to me that's a gay waste of time and effort.
I was just curious 'cause I don't want to look completely uninformed if someone asks me.
As far as the homosexual aspects of my query are concerned....yes, I too see the gayness.:D
Not a chance. The M4 came into being after '86. Civilians cannot procure them even if they pass NFA qualifications.
Well, ok. That's sort of why I'm asking.
The roll marks on my Colt say M4 Carbine.
Hey, it's your world. I'm just livin' in it. :D
ANYTHING with the carbean gas system is an M4 for me.
My 11.5" SBR with an A1 fixed buttstock is an M4 to me.
You can get all assed up about the technical specifications of a military m4 an all that crap. But to me that's a gay waste of time and effort.
You have the RIFLE, the M4, and the MIDDY for the metrosexual types. :p And that's it... plain and simple.
while i dont like to get all caught up in nomenclature either....that little naming system is just kinda dumb.
if you want to classify ARs by gas system, go ahead. Carbine, middy and rifle.
but the m4 is a specific variant built on the carbine gas system.
but even then, id say the only thing it HAS to have to consider it an m4 (for me) is the presence of an m4 PROFILE barrel, be it 16 or 14.5/14.7
but that is just my opinion. and not exactly one that i even care to argue about...in the end it really just isnt important. i just felt like calling your opinion dumb. ;)
AR vs. M4...if only it were that simple.
You've got AR, CAR, A1, A2, A3, A4, SBR, SPR, DMR, M4, M16, XM177, BAR...Okay so a BAR is totally unrelated, but they sure are cool, aren't they?
And most of those are usually used in some sort of combination.
Like an XM177 which is an A1 CAR SBR.
Or using your M16A4 as a DMR. But it needs some upgrades to be an SPR.
It gets ridiculous in a hurry, if you let yourself get wrapped around the axle.
As others have said, I just call them all ARs. If you want to build something specific, and name it that, go for it. Me, I'm building my M4 AR into an SBR SPR CQB DMR. (Sorry, I couldn't resist a little silliness).
be like the libs and just call it assault weapon.
i thought an m4 was a military rifle and a ar15 was civilian counterpart
i thought an m4 was a military rifle and a ar15 was civilian counterpart
The AR15 was the original military rifle. The military later designated variants as M16s, M4s, etc.
People still call semi auto AK variants AKs don't they? :rolleyes:
It's just a generic term.
buddyhoohaw
09-19-08, 08:31
This thread needs pics....
Colt M4A1 clone
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y198/buddyhoohaw/6400C/M4A1-15.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y198/buddyhoohaw/6400C/M4A1-19.jpg
Cheers
Hey Buddyhoohaw, what kind of BUIS do you have on your "M4"?
Looks like a Matech.
-RD62
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