View Full Version : Scout Rifle Qs
Finally got the scout rifle and Leupold 1.5-4 28mm scout scope. I want to put in the forward position. I see the rings supplied with the rifle are only for more traditional position. Leupold QRW low rings or Warne Scope Mounts Quick Detach Rings GTG?
I see it now comes with one metal mag, where it used to come with one metal and one polymer mag I recall.
What 10rnd mags are GTG? Magpul AICS .308 mags?
Rec me a sling?
Now gotta grab some ammo to site it in and a few boxes of good stuff.....
Tanx
I have always used Leupold rings and bases on my hunting rifles. That would be my choice out of the two you listed, but I don't have any experience with Warne's products. For the sling google the Ching sling. Not sure who makes it but it is the sling all of the scout rifle "purist" use and recommend. Which brand title did you buy?
Another good sling is the Rhodesian sling which is a variation of the Ching sling. I actually have one on my AR and like it.
Synthetic: http://www.thewilderness.com/langlois-rhodesian-sling/wilderness-langlois-rhodesian-sling/
Leather:
https://www.andysleather.com/
I have always used Leupold rings and bases on my hunting rifles. That would be my choice out of the two you listed, but I don't have any experience with Warne's products. For the sling google the Ching sling. Not sure who makes it but it is the sling all of the scout rifle "purist" use and recommend. Which brand title did you buy?
My bad, per other thread on optics, Ruger GS Scout.
I use warne rings pretty much exclusively...I prefer their clamping style. I think it's more secure and less likely to damage the tube. They're pretty easy to install and I've never had any issues at all with them.
I use warne rings pretty much exclusively...I prefer their clamping style. I think it's more secure and less likely to damage the tube. They're pretty easy to install and I've never had any issues at all with them.
Gonna try em then.
Little Creek
01-13-17, 17:27
Finally got the scout rifle and Leupold 1.5-4 28mm scout scope. I want to put in the forward position. I see the rings supplied with the rifle are only for more traditional position. Leupold QRW low rings or Warne Scope Mounts Quick Detach Rings GTG?
I see it now comes with one metal mag, where it used to come with one metal and one polymer mag I recall.
What 10rnd mags are GTG? Magpul AICS .308 mags?
Rec me a sling?
Now gotta grab some ammo to site it in and a few boxes of good stuff.....
Tanx
Leupold QRW low. I have 5 sets on scouts and am very happy with them.
1_click_off
01-13-17, 20:35
I have the Warne rings as well. Think they are good rings and like the way they clamp the tube as stated earlier. I had to go to med rings as the low caused the bell to hit. Get the hornady cheek pad and it brings the cheek weld back into a decide spot.
The Warne quick disconnect are kind of a pain for inserting and removing from my Eberlestock. They extend a bit much. What is nice is that you can pull, (maybe push) the levers out and point them in a direction that helps prevent snags, but still there. Have not removed and attached to check zero.
Andy's leather is the Ching Sling I have. If you purchase it through Ruger, you can get it embossed/stamped with the Ruger logo. I have it, but not currently attached to rifle.
I wish I'd gotten the Leupold, you did good there.
The dead air armament is a great brake for it.
I think mine came with 2 stamped steel mags.
I since bought some Ruger polymer 3,5, and 10 rounders. I really like the 3 and 5 rounders with 3rd being the winner of them all.
I have an LR-308 and the magpul mags for it do NOT fit the scout.
Little Creek
01-14-17, 09:27
I have the Warne rings as well. Think they are good rings and like the way they clamp the tube as stated earlier. I had to go to med rings as the low caused the bell to hit. Get the hornady cheek pad and it brings the cheek weld back into a decide spot.
The Warne quick disconnect are kind of a pain for inserting and removing from my Eberlestock. They extend a bit much. What is nice is that you can pull, (maybe push) the levers out and point them in a direction that helps prevent snags, but still there. Have not removed and attached to check zero.
Andy's leather is the Ching Sling I have. If you purchase it through Ruger, you can get it embossed/stamped with the Ruger logo. I have it, but not currently attached to rifle.
I wish I'd gotten the Leupold, you did good there.
The dead air armament is a great brake for it.
I have a Dead Air Sandman Ti at my dealer waiting on ATF to approve the paperwork. It will do duadruple duty on my GSR, my DD5V1, my 300 AAC Blackout, and my SRC 25-45 Ar-15. Plan to get more cans especially if the Hearing Protection Act is passed and becomes law. After supply catches up to demand, maybe the prices will come down.
1_click_off
01-14-17, 09:33
I have the Sandman L. Think the TI mounts a little different and brake design is different as well. I am like you, I have almost as much invested in brakes as I do the suppressor.
If you can remember to swap it back to 30cal when shooting 30cal, they have a 22cal/5.56 end plate for it.
Little Creek
01-14-17, 09:53
I have the Sandman L. Think the TI mounts a little different and brake design is different as well. I am like you, I have almost as much invested in brakes as I do the suppressor.
If you can remember to swap it back to 30cal when shooting 30cal, they have a 22cal/5.56 end plate for it.
True, the Sandman Ti weighs a lot less at 16+oz. It is not quick detach, it just uses the standard threaded 308 barrels. The other Dead Air suppressors for 308 are longer heavier and require one of their muzzle brakes or flash hiders for each gun you intend to mount it on. The weight of the muzzle brakes and/or flash hiders also add weight. The Sandman Ti is also cheaper, but I don't think it is rated for fully automatic fire.
The Ti suits me. Your mileage may vary.
Seems like a decent basic flash suppressor on the rifle, but I assume a good break would reduce the stout, but nut punishing, recoil of this compact rifle. I can see how a suppressor would be a great addition, but with tax stamp, probably cost more then the rifle.
1_click_off
01-14-17, 11:08
It removed a great deal of the "felt" recoil and seemed to reduce muzzle climb/jump.
Edit: It is a little long though.
It removed a great deal of the "felt" recoil and seemed to reduce muzzle climb/jump.
Edit: It is a little long though.
Sorta defeats some of the reasons one gets such a compact rifle. I can see the benefits though.
1_click_off
01-14-17, 21:06
Sorta defeats some of the reasons one gets such a compact rifle. I can see the benefits though.
We are only talking 3/8 to 1/2" longer than stock flash hider.
Did you get the 16" or 18" barrel?
We are only talking 3/8 to 1/2" longer than stock flash hider.
Did you get the 16" or 18" barrel?
16" I want to add as little uneaded length as possible but 3/8 to 1/2" would be a non issue.
1859sharps
01-22-17, 21:36
Finally got the scout rifle and Leupold 1.5-4 28mm scout scope. I want to put in the forward position. I see the rings supplied with the rifle are only for more traditional position. Leupold QRW low rings or Warne Scope Mounts Quick Detach Rings GTG?
A lot of scout owners over at scoutrifle.org seems to like the Leupold qrw rings. I am blanking on them exact model, but some have expressed admiration for some weaver rings, I believe one of the reasons is it mounts the scope just a little lower.
if you are unsure...the leupolds are a safe starting place.
The scout scope you have may not allow your to mount it forward of the receiver given at max power the eye relief is 6inch. Because you are using a box magazine fed rifle, that the scope may hang a bit back over the magazine is not an issue unless you really want to be able to load rounds one at a time.
A forward mounted scope is NOT a requirement in order to say you have a scout. a conventionally mounted scope is "legal" and doesn't "de scout" the rifle.
While I would encourage you to give the forward mounted scope a really good try, if it doesn't "do it" for you, don't sweat it. As much as I like it, I am probably going to have to give it up due to my eyes. if the scope had a focus option I could keep it. I will probably go with a fixed 4 power (leupold's fixed 4x has a focus option) or some 1-4 scope, and it will have to most likely be mounted conventionally. :(
I see it now comes with one metal mag, where it used to come with one metal and one polymer mag I recall.
What 10rnd mags are GTG? Magpul AICS .308 mags?
I have just started playing with Magpul AICS 308 mags. But not on my scout...not compatible with my rifle. I am using them on a R700. I have the 5 rounders. Due to weather I haven't had a chance to try them on the range, but they seem well built and for curiosity I did load some rounds in it and then just cycled some rounds. went really smooth.
Given that the magpuls are very reasonably priced, buy one and give them a try would be my thought. For rifle balance when shooting in field positions, give 5 rounds a try and compare. I personally don't plan on using 10 rounders with my scout or my R700, but that is just me.
Rec me a sling?
I second the earlier suggestion to use andy's leather. https://www.andysleather.com/
The original suggested sling was the CW sling. it was basically a loop between the front swivel and one about mid way down the stock. Then the Ching sling was invented and that became the recommended sling. There isn't really a "official sling" for scouts. But to get the most out of your rifle, you should choose a shooting sling vs a carry sling.
I like the Ching sling and would recommend starting with it. Andy makes the CW, Ching, and the Rhodesian. I am going to try out the Rhodesian on my non scout rifles, but even if I end up liking it I probably won't use it on my scout rifle.
I assume a good break would reduce the stout, but nut punishing, recoil of this compact rifle. I can see how a suppressor would be a great addition, but with tax stamp, probably cost more then the rifle.
don't take this the wrong way....but properly mounting and holding the rifle will go a long way to "taming" the felt recoil. I shoot the steyr and it's about a half a pound lighter without sling and scope. as I have learned to shoot it, the recoil has become less and less an issue. But the first few times I shot it oh man did it hurt. But now it is very comfortable and I hardly notice the recoil. And I know it's not an issue of just getting desensitized because if I make a mistake mounting and holding the rifle....OUCH.
I think you are going to enjoy your rifle. The more I learn to shoot and use mine...I am finding I am judging my other bolt actions by it more and more... too heavy, too long, poor stock etc, etc.
A forward mounted scope is NOT a requirement in order to say you have a scout. a conventionally mounted scope is "legal" and doesn't "de scout" the rifle.
While I would encourage you to give the forward mounted scope a really good try, if it doesn't "do it" for you, don't sweat it. As much as I like it, I am probably going to have to give it up due to my eyes. if the scope had a focus option I could keep it. I will probably go with a fixed 4 power (leupold's fixed 4x has a focus option) or some 1-4 scope, and it will have to most likely be mounted conventionally.
It's good to see that some people get this. In many Scout rifle circles using a conventional scope brings a host of negative comments. Things like: it wasn't designed for that, Col. Cooper said, blah, blah, blah... While I have the utmost respect for the Colonel and his rifle design, as you say a Scout scope is not required. My Steyr Scout wears a 3-9X Leupold Patrol in QD mounts. It's the perfect scope for the use of my Steyr as a general purpose rifle.
Honestly, I feel the same about the Ching sling. I use a Magpul adjustable sling and it works the same and goes around my arm just as well.
Thankfully, my rifle has a threaded barrel. The Steyr factory adapter and ASR Flash Hider have added a little length and weight but not enough to negatively effect the rifle.
SamM
A lot of scout owners over at scoutrifle.org seems to like the Leupold qrw rings. I am blanking on them exact model, but some have expressed admiration for some weaver rings, I believe one of the reasons is it mounts the scope just a little lower.
if you are unsure...the leupolds are a safe starting place.
That's what I did, thanx.
The scout scope you have may not allow your to mount it forward of the receiver given at max power the eye relief is 6inch. Because you are using a box magazine fed rifle, that the scope may hang a bit back over the magazine is not an issue unless you really want to be able to load rounds one at a time.
A forward mounted scope is NOT a requirement in order to say you have a scout. a conventionally mounted scope is "legal" and doesn't "de scout" the rifle.
While I would encourage you to give the forward mounted scope a really good try, if it doesn't "do it" for you, don't sweat it. As much as I like it, I am probably going to have to give it up due to my eyes. if the scope had a focus option I could keep it. I will probably go with a fixed 4 power (leupold's fixed 4x has a focus option) or some 1-4 scope, and it will have to most likely be mounted conventionally. :(
So far, I note the forward mounted position allows for a faster two eyes open quick site picture on dry firing. However, I have not had legit range time with it. I can see the target clearly and what's around me better, but those are initial experience minus legit testing of one position vs the other. I'd assume the position of the scope also relates to the intended use of the rifle and the pros/cons there of both locations.
I have just started playing with Magpul AICS 308 mags. But not on my scout...not compatible with my rifle. I am using them on a R700. I have the 5 rounders. Due to weather I haven't had a chance to try them on the range, but they seem well built and for curiosity I did load some rounds in it and then just cycled some rounds. went really smooth.
Given that the magpuls are very reasonably priced, buy one and give them a try would be my thought. For rifle balance when shooting in field positions, give 5 rounds a try and compare. I personally don't plan on using 10 rounders with my scout or my R700, but that is just me.
Got a 3 pack of 10rnders, so far so good. They seem to cycle ammo fine and no hang ups, but limited rnd count so far. Online experiences with those mags and that rifle also seem G2G.
I second the earlier suggestion to use andy's leather. https://www.andysleather.com/
The original suggested sling was the CW sling. it was basically a loop between the front swivel and one about mid way down the stock. Then the Ching sling was invented and that became the recommended sling. There isn't really a "official sling" for scouts. But to get the most out of your rifle, you should choose a shooting sling vs a carry sling.
I like the Ching sling and would recommend starting with it. Andy makes the CW, Ching, and the Rhodesian. I am going to try out the Rhodesian on my non scout rifles, but even if I end up liking it I probably won't use it on my scout rifle.
On the list of things to order ;)
don't take this the wrong way....but properly mounting and holding the rifle will go a long way to "taming" the felt recoil. I shoot the steyr and it's about a half a pound lighter without sling and scope. as I have learned to shoot it, the recoil has become less and less an issue. But the first few times I shot it oh man did it hurt. But now it is very comfortable and I hardly notice the recoil. And I know it's not an issue of just getting desensitized because if I make a mistake mounting and holding the rifle....OUCH.
I think you are going to enjoy your rifle. The more I learn to shoot and use mine...I am finding I am judging my other bolt actions by it more and more... too heavy, too long, poor stock etc, etc.
So far, I shot it from a bench to zero to 100 yards, and a few standing. I tend to hold the rifle similar to an AR, somewhat squared off and forward, rifle tucked in tight. Recoil is manageable, but I don't see putting say a few hundred rnds through it in a day. Do you modify your stance with these scout rifles compared to say an AR?
A forward mounted scope is NOT a requirement in order to say you have a scout. a conventionally mounted scope is "legal" and doesn't "de scout" the rifle.
While I would encourage you to give the forward mounted scope a really good try, if it doesn't "do it" for you, don't sweat it. As much as I like it, I am probably going to have to give it up due to my eyes. if the scope had a focus option I could keep it. I will probably go with a fixed 4 power (leupold's fixed 4x has a focus option) or some 1-4 scope, and it will have to most likely be mounted conventionally.
It's good to see that some people get this. In many Scout rifle circles using a conventional scope brings a host of negative comments. Things like: it wasn't designed for that, Col. Cooper said, blah, blah, blah... While I have the utmost respect for the Colonel and his rifle design, as you say a Scout scope is not required. My Steyr Scout wears a 3-9X Leupold Patrol in QD mounts. It's the perfect scope for the use of my Steyr as a general purpose rifle.
Honestly, I feel the same about the Ching sling. I use a Magpul adjustable sling and it works the same and goes around my arm just as well.
Thankfully, my rifle has a threaded barrel. The Steyr factory adapter and ASR Flash Hider have added a little length and weight but not enough to negatively effect the rifle.
SamM
I have never actually read what the late Col. had to say on the scope placement of his concept. Was he specific about that and did he give his reasoning as to the position being superior?
He highly recommended the Scout scope but it was not a requirement. He also advocated a low power optic. Both of which I abandoned on my rifle. The 3-9X Patrol works great for my use. I plan to use the 1.25-4X Patrol on my AUG.
His thoughts were quicker target acquisition and much faster follow up shots would make a Scout rifle, the perfect 1-gun solution for hunting and tactical use. If a man only had one weapon what would he have? The .308W Scout was his solution.
SamM
1859sharps
01-23-17, 18:52
My understand of what Cooper was going for with scopes was "ghost ring" in a scope.... I will keep working on a better way to explain it...but that is all I can come up with right now.
From what I have read, Cooper LOVED ghost rings. But he also like how scopes draw the eye to the reticle and target. He wanted to be able to keep both eyes open for situational awareness, and be able to shift from looking around back to the scope and be able to find your target and engage quickly.
At the time of his writings through his death, he felt the fixed low power forward of the receiver mounted scope was the best way to achieve the goals he was after and so heavily promoted it...so much so people think it's the only scope you can have. There are many scopes and red dot options today that were NOT in existence prior to his death that seem promising in achieving what he was going for. But as you increase magnification, you start loosing the benefits of what he was going for with the low fixed power scope with a wide field of view.
So for what it is worth...my opinion given what I know to date is that any scope that allows you to keep both eyes open while looking around and allows you to quickly align sights when needing to shoot, and gives generous field of view, is a "scout scope".
because of my eyes, I am planning on experimenting with some of the 1 x 4 powered options out there.
Slings.
Cooper REALLY believed in shooting slings, or at least that is my impression from his writings. again, he felt the CW then later then later the Ching sling achieved what he was going for. A sling that was a genuine shooting aid in the tradition of the 1907 sling found on the 03 springfields, but was faster to "loop up".
Do you have to use a CW or Ching...no of course not. they are good slings, but any shooting sling that actually helps shoot steadier and is quick to "loop up" will work.
shooting scouts at public rifle ranges.
nothing wrong with it, but shooting from the bench wasn't the goal. so if a scout is properly built nothing about it favours shooting from a bench. everything he was going for was intended to make shooting in the field, from field positions easier thus making you more successful in hitting your target.
I have noticed with my rifle when I leave the bench and shoot from field type positions such as prone, sitting, kneeling, standing etc, this in addition to mounting the rifle correctly also reduces the discomfort of shooting such a light rifle.
Concept vs the literal means Cooper implemented and promoted
sometimes people get too stuck on the literal choices he made and promoted, such as the forward mounted scope. I am of the opinion that we are better off figuring out what he was going for and why, then sticking to that concept vs thinking that the literal choices he made are the only way and forever carved in stone and never to be deviated from.
so my two cents....learn the concept, try and understand why he prompted something such as the forward mounted scope. if you do that, then you be able to know if the alleged better mouse trap is really a better mouse trap. Can make your own choices for something on the scout rifle (such as scope or sling) while not loosing anything of the over all goal.
I too gave up on the forward mount scope. I really tried to like it, but it just didn't work for me. Maybe because I've become so accustomed to a traditional setup. My ideal setup ended up being a low power leupold scope in the traditional position using the factory rings.
I have a surefire socom flash hider on it as I sometimes use it suppressed. I haven't used it suppressed lately as it kind of defeats the short and compact nature of the rifle.
I also have an Andy's leather Rhodesian sling and highly recommend it.
+1 on the polymer magazines. They are much smoother than the metal ones.
Only drawback to the Ruger is that you lose the rear sight if you use the factory rings. Not an issue if the scope is forwarded mounted on the rail, but it would be nice to shoot with irons once in a while.
I too gave up on the forward mount scope. I really tried to like it, but it just didn't work for me. Maybe because I've become so accustomed to a traditional setup. My ideal setup ended up being a low power leupold scope in the traditional position using the factory rings.
I have a surefire socom flash hider on it as I sometimes use it suppressed. I haven't used it suppressed lately as it kind of defeats the short and compact nature of the rifle.
I also have an Andy's leather Rhodesian sling and highly recommend it.
+1 on the polymer magazines. They are much smoother than the metal ones.
Only drawback to the Ruger is that you lose the rear sight if you use the factory rings. Not an issue if the scope is forwarded mounted on the rail, but it would be nice to shoot with irons once in a while.
I'm speculating, but I suspect it depends on what you're trying to achieve no? The forward position seems faster to acquire a site picture while keeping both eyes open for fastest shot on a threat using the low power scope, vs precision shooting per se. It also allows the use of loading from the top using stripper clips or one at a time. Not an expert here, but that seems the only advantage of the forward mount visually, and although it's very doubtful you/I would ever load additional rnds from the top, that's the added benefit if I understand Cooper's stuff having just looked it up. I'd think for hunting and such, where one expects to have adequate time to firm of the site picture, and no intentions of ever loading from the top, the traditional position makes the most sense. It does not look at cool however ;)
Makes sense?
1859sharps
01-26-17, 00:05
Will, from what I have learned and read you are on the right track with your understanding of the forward mounted scope.
here is a good thread that goes into how to mount the scope, and other documentation about the ideas and information behind the forward mounted scope. http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?topic=4850.0
personally, in the ideal I will like to stay with the forward mounted scope if at all possible. but if that turns out to not be possible due to my eyes, I will try and find something that gives me as close to the same feature/functionality as the forward mounted scope as possible.
I'm speculating, but I suspect it depends on what you're trying to achieve no? The forward position seems faster to acquire a site picture while keeping both eyes open for fastest shot on a threat using the low power scope, vs precision shooting per se. It also allows the use of loading from the top using stripper clips or one at a time. Not an expert here, but that seems the only advantage of the forward mount visually, and although it's very doubtful you/I would ever load additional rnds from the top, that's the added benefit if I understand Cooper's stuff having just looked it up. I'd think for hunting and such, where one expects to have adequate time to firm of the site picture, and no intentions of ever loading from the top, the traditional position makes the most sense. It does not look at cool however ;)
Makes sense?
Yeah, you do get a slightly faster sight picture, but that's about it in my opinion. You hit the nail on the head with the rest of your speculations. I realized that loading rounds from the top wasn't realistically going to happen and I don't think I ever had to take a shot so fast that I didn't have enough setup time. If you are building a true "I can have only one gun so it must be a scout/battle rifle" with the intention of hunting and defense, then maybe it makes sense. I love the idea of that kind of setup. In fact, that was my original intention, but after actual hunting use I realized it just didn't work for me. But... I'm just a sample of one and many others seem to be happy with it...
So far so good. Ordered a Ching sling from Andy's leather.
After sighting in using a laser bore sight, I did 2 rnds at 100ft (max of the indoor range) off hand with both eyes open. No one would accuse me of being the next White Feather, that's for sure, but "good enough for gubment work" as they say. Need to get to the outdoor range and sight it in for 100 yards in the near future and get that group into center. First time using a laser bore sight.
43725
1_click_off
01-29-17, 09:54
Looks like you found some ammo it likes. What are you shooting?
Mine hates 147gr PMC. Like 4" groups at 100yds. Looking to load 168gr amax soon. Been hearing good things about the 168amax and the scout combo.
Looks like you found some ammo it likes. What are you shooting?
Mine hates 147gr PMC. Like 4" groups at 100yds. Looking to load 168gr amax soon. Been hearing good things about the 168amax and the scout combo.
El cheapo American Eagle. I'd think at the distance I was shooting, you wouldn't see any noticeable differences in accuracy between rnds no?
1_click_off
01-29-17, 11:09
I noticed a big difference at 100yd. I haven't shot in awhile, but like said earlier, 147gr PMC does not fair well in mine. I had a few boxes of various ammo last time out and some did really well. I would need to pull my log to see what did what, but the 147gr stuff was the least impressive.
I actually pulled my suppressor off thinking I may be getting baffle strikes. Just as bad of groups with no can.
1859sharps
01-29-17, 21:38
what are you considering bad groups size?
while a good scout rifle should be able to make small groups at 100 yards, their purpose isn't to sit at a bench and shoot small groups.
I actually got some perspective on field accuracy from a been there done that Marine/major metro city police officer I know. he once told me to take a 4 x 4 square and place that over any part of a adult or game animal such as pig or deer. IF you can keep your shots in that square out to 2 or 3 hundred yards using field shooting positions you have plenty of skill/accuracy.
Later I came across similarly expressed thoughts on accuracy/group size by Cooper.
of course it goes with out saying (or should) that we want the most accurate ammunition and rifle possible, but once you leave the bench if you aren't shooting half MOA it's nothing to loose sleep over.
1_click_off
01-30-17, 06:53
what are you considering bad groups size?
while a good scout rifle should be able to make small groups at 100 yards, their purpose isn't to sit at a bench and shoot small groups.
I actually got some perspective on field accuracy from a been there done that Marine/major metro city police officer I know. he once told me to take a 4 x 4 square and place that over any part of a adult or game animal such as pig or deer. IF you can keep your shots in that square out to 2 or 3 hundred yards using field shooting positions you have plenty of skill/accuracy.
Later I came across similarly expressed thoughts on accuracy/group size by Cooper.
of course it goes with out saying (or should) that we want the most accurate ammunition and rifle possible, but once you leave the bench if you aren't shooting half MOA it's nothing to loose sleep over.
Fully agree, but I am shooting 4" groups at 100yds from a bench. Switch ammo and I see patterns like Will's picture.
Guess I am just saying to make sure your rifle likes what you want to shoot before buying a case of it.
I noticed a big difference at 100yd. I haven't shot in awhile, but like said earlier, 147gr PMC does not fair well in mine. I had a few boxes of various ammo last time out and some did really well. I would need to pull my log to see what did what, but the 147gr stuff was the least impressive.
I actually pulled my suppressor off thinking I may be getting baffle strikes. Just as bad of groups with no can.
Fully agree, but I am shooting 4" groups at 100yds from a bench. Switch ammo and I see patterns like Will's picture.
Guess I am just saying to make sure your rifle likes what you want to shoot before buying a case of it.
Gents, RE my group. Note distance and that it was off hand with both eyes open. I could not get a group like that off hand with both eyes open at 100 yards personally. I'd be happy to have all rnds in 4" group at 100 yards shooting off hand with both eyes open.
I am a little late in coming into this thread, but I'll chime in anyways. After all, it wouldn't be the interwebs without unsolicited advice. If anyone thinks I am too late I will beg forgiveness by saying that I was busy becoming a bona fide Scout Rifle junkie....I now own three scout-shaped objects.
I'll second the suggestion of another poster - there is an absolute wealth of "scout-ish" knowledge and folks far wiser than I over at www.scoutrifle.org
You are on the right track with a Ching sling from Andy - I have switched almost all of my long guns over to his slings (Ching, Rhodesian, or AK-specific, depending on configuration. The exception is my AR's, which are still wearing Vickers BFG slings). If you have a synthetic stock, you may want to build up some JB weld or other material around the area where you are going to attach the third swivel - when you loop up properly, there is good firm pull in two directions on that stud. I happen to run a Rhodesian on my Ruger, so I can't provide a whole lot of specific advice on where to mount it...but either Andy or the folks at Scoutrifle will know more than I do.
I have Leupold QRW's holding a Leupold 1.5-5X33 on my Ruger scout-shaped object. They are rock solid, but a little heavier than is truly needed for this application, and they could probably be 1/4" lower. My scope choice is also fatter and heavier than yours - so please don't make the mistake of duplicating my ring choice.
Getting the centerline of your scope tube as close as possible to your bore is actually very important for the whole "both eyes open snap shooting" that is so central to the scout concept. Case in point - the 1" tube on my 2.5X fixed power scout scope on my Steyr SHOULD make it somewhat slower to snap shoot than the 30mm tube, lower magnification, and big ocular bell of the scope on my Ruger....but it doesn't. The low height over bore and fantastic ergonomics of the Steyr mean that it is actually a hair quicker to snap shoot.
If you can make everything work with a set of Weaver Quad Lock Mediums, that is a GREAT choice. Based on the scope you have, I would start there. I use them for the 2.5X fixed power Leupold scout scope on my Steyr, and they get the scope for far down on the deck that I would need both patience and Crisco to get anything more than daylight between the ocular bell and the receiver.
I see that you already have mags - if those don't work for you, the factory Ruger polymer mags have been great for me in 3, 5, and 10 round variants.
Oh...and one final item. If you haven't already removed the factory scout rail, degreased it, and put some blue loctite on the mounting screws, you will probably want to do that now. Ruger doesn't loctite them at the factory, and they have a habit of working loose after a couple hundred (or fewer) rounds.
This can be somewhat frustrating when you've driven 1200 miles for a top-flight rifle course. A friend of mine found that out the hard way.
1_click_off
01-30-17, 10:53
Will,
Yep, I noticed you were at 100' for your group. I have been able to get groups like your 100' off hand group while benched at 100yds.
W_squared
That is a very good point about the rail. Maybe the 147gr was the last ammo I shot and the rail loosened up on me. Will check that tonight. Like I said, been awhile since last outing.
Will,
Yep, I noticed you were at 100' for your group. I have been able to get groups like your 100' off hand group while benched at 100yds.
W_squared
That is a very good point about the rail. Maybe the 147gr was the last ammo I shot and the rail loosened up on me. Will check that tonight. Like I said, been awhile since last outing.
Benched with the right ammo, that makes sense sure. I don't know what the Ruger Scout is capable of benched with good ammo at 100 yards, but I do know it's more accurate than I am. I'm of the "good enough for gumbent work" ilk when it comes to accuracy. I did find my Colt 6940 benched at 100 yards made groups that were just terrible with crappy Wolf ammo, like 8" + MOA bad. My interest in the scout is quick site picture two eyes open with low power scope shooting as the focus, which is how I shoot handguns and my AR.
I can't speak for your Ruger....but the one time that I put it on bags, I found that mine pretty much shoots MOA with Federal GMM at 100 yards.
1859sharps
01-30-17, 21:55
I am a little late in coming into this thread, but I'll chime in anyways. After all, it wouldn't be the interwebs without unsolicited advice. If anyone thinks I am too late I will beg forgiveness......
*in best soup nazi voice* NO!!! forgiveness for you...
*sends Badger a PM to cut off your whisky ration* :lol:
Badger only controls the cheese. He ain't gonna be affecting my whisky ration!
Ching sling from Andy's Leather added. I should have looked closer to realize I had to drill the stock to add it, but worked out fine. Still trying to get the loop size right. Too small, can't pull it up to the shoulder, too loose, it falls off the arm. Needs range time to really narrow down sweet spot for loop size, but so far so good and I can see how it makes for a rock steady shooting platform for this great all purpose bolt gun. How have you all using Ching slings got that loop size issue down?
Ching, Rhodesian, or CW - loop size is 100% personal preference. It is dependent both on your body and the geometry that works well for you when shooting.
Remember that you need to choose a loop size that will work for you in all of the positions that you use that loop in. Prone, sitting, kneeling, and (this one is open to debate) standing. A loop size that is perfect for kneeling will be too tight for prone. A loop size that is perfect for prone is too loose for kneeling. The answer is to choose a loop size that works for prone when close to the elbow, and also works for kneeling when close to the shoulder.
Short of getting hands-on instruction, the best method for gaining a good grounding in effective use of the sling is to grab you copy of Colonel Cooper's "The Art Of The Rifle", set up a target on the far side of the room, and do some quality dry practice. If you set up a high-contrast "target" that is half an inch wide and one inch tall, and then aim from a range of ten feet, it will approximate a silhouette at 100 yards.
Practice slinging up, building a solid position, breaking the shot, and your bolt flick. Do that for all four basic positions, and be honest with yourself about how you felt about the break of each "shot". When you do it right (especially when slung prone and sitting) you will know that you stayed on target throughout the process of breaking the shot.
Many will argue that because your support side elbow is not anchored, slinging up is useless when standing. I disagree - slinging up removes any unsteadiness introduced by the muscles between your elbow and your hand on the support side. No, it in no way is as big of an aid to quality hits as slinging up in the kneeling or sitting position....but when forced to shoot standing, I'll take what I can get.
Ching, Rhodesian, or CW - loop size is 100% personal preference. It is dependent both on your body and the geometry that works well for you when shooting.
Remember that you need to choose a loop size that will work for you in all of the positions that you use that loop in. Prone, sitting, kneeling, and (this one is open to debate) standing. A loop size that is perfect for kneeling will be too tight for prone. A loop size that is perfect for prone is too loose for kneeling. The answer is to choose a loop size that works for prone when close to the elbow, and also works for kneeling when close to the shoulder.
Short of getting hands-on instruction, the best method for gaining a good grounding in effective use of the sling is to grab you copy of Colonel Cooper's "The Art Of The Rifle", set up a target on the far side of the room, and do some quality dry practice. If you set up a high-contrast "target" that is half an inch wide and one inch tall, and then aim from a range of ten feet, it will approximate a silhouette at 100 yards.
Practice slinging up, building a solid position, breaking the shot, and your bolt flick. Do that for all four basic positions, and be honest with yourself about how you felt about the break of each "shot". When you do it right (especially when slung prone and sitting) you will know that you stayed on target throughout the process of breaking the shot.
Many will argue that because your support side elbow is not anchored, slinging up is useless when standing. I disagree - slinging up removes any unsteadiness introduced by the muscles between your elbow and your hand on the support side. No, it in no way is as big of an aid to quality hits as slinging up in the kneeling or sitting position....but when forced to shoot standing, I'll take what I can get.
Great info thanx. I'd be shooting from standing the vast majority of the time with this rifle and it seems to me, the sling very much adds stability, so I'm surprised some feel it's not of value to the standing position.
Colonel Cooper himself stated that he found no value in slinging up when standing...but I started doing it through sheer ignorance and found that I did notice a benefit. There are folks whose opinion I absolutely respect that disagree with me on this - your mileage may very definitely vary.
As far as shooting from standing...do it when you truly need to, but to quote Colonel Cooper - "If you can get closer, get closer. If you can get steadier, get steadier." I've found that the height difference between kneeling and standing is small enough that you CAN use kneeling in many situations if you're willing to move a little bit laterally to get a line of sight through vegetation....and the payoff in terms of steadiness is worth it. I do practice it - but in each of the occasions that I've had to take an animal, I've managed to find a way to use a position other than standing.
Colonel Cooper himself stated that he found no value in slinging up when standing...but I started doing it through sheer ignorance and found that I did notice a benefit. There are folks whose opinion I absolutely respect that disagree with me on this - your mileage may very definitely vary.
As far as shooting from standing...do it when you truly need to, but to quote Colonel Cooper - "If you can get closer, get closer. If you can get steadier, get steadier." I've found that the height difference between kneeling and standing is small enough that you CAN use kneeling in many situations if you're willing to move a little bit laterally to get a line of sight through vegetation....and the payoff in terms of steadiness is worth it. I do practice it - but in each of the occasions that I've had to take an animal, I've managed to find a way to use a position other than standing.
I need to learn shooting positions of long guns far better. My shooting has been almost exclusively pistol over the years. I may be banned, but I only own one AR.
If you have never had any formal instruction in traditional shooting positions, I have two suggestions:
#1. A copy of "The Art Of The Rifle". It contains far more than just those positions - much of it wildly at odds with the current urge to build rifles and shooters that are effective only at shooting small groups from a bench located 100 yards from the target. If you want to invest time and effort in building the ability to hit targets at real-world distances while afield, it is an exceptional resource.
#2. Attend at least on "Project Appleseed". These are great folks, providing quality instruction in marksmanship - and doing so because they truly believe in what they are doing. You will learn more about natural point of aim and the basic riflecraft of positional shooting in one weekend of Appleseed than a lifetime of on line resources could provide to you. https://appleseedinfo.org/
If you have never had any formal instruction in traditional shooting positions, I have two suggestions:
#1. A copy of "The Art Of The Rifle". It contains far more than just those positions - much of it wildly at odds with the current urge to build rifles and shooters that are effective only at shooting small groups from a bench located 100 yards from the target. If you want to invest time and effort in building the ability to hit targets at real-world distances while afield, it is an exceptional resource.
#2. Attend at least on "Project Appleseed". These are great folks, providing quality instruction in marksmanship - and doing so because they truly believe in what they are doing. You will learn more about natural point of aim and the basic riflecraft of positional shooting in one weekend of Appleseed than a lifetime of on line resources could provide to you. https://appleseedinfo.org/
Will do. I know that's considered a classic and gad knows I quote the late Colonel enough.
1859sharps
03-04-17, 00:22
I use an Andy's ching sling on my scout rifle. like w squared says, the fine details of adjustment are pretty much personal. I optimized for prone, yet still of value for looping up while standing.
having spent a few brief months shooting a local cmp club match, never occurred to me to think that looping up while standing was a waste or not help.
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