View Full Version : Ever had an Extractor Spring/Insert/O-Ring just fall out?
I was breaking down a brand new BCG today to clean/lube and something happened that I've not run into before; at least with a brand new BCG. As soon as I pulled the Extractor out, the Spring, Insert, and O-Ring all just fell out onto the floor! I thought, "Well maybe it wasn't seated properly when put together by the mfg." So, I tried to get it to "click" into. No dice. I even tried both sides of the Spring; as neither end really seemed noticeably larger in diameter or circumference. Nothing doing. The spring just wobbles around in the recess of the Extractor. I'm 99% certain the spring is too small, almost like it's meant for something else.
I got it back together, but it was awkward. I had to hold the bolt with the Extractor cutout facing the floor and insert the extractor up into it to avoid having the spring fall out again. Definitely not the traditional method of assembly. Out of curiosity, I then tested it for function by cycling some rounds manually. It actually fed, extracted and ejected without a problem.
Anyone else ever have this issue with a brand new BCG? I could understand degrading over time. But, assuming I didn't have an off night and made a mistake, whoever put this together had to have realized the issue. Even if I'm wrong about the Spring, and the Extractor recess is too large, it still would have been obvious there was a problem. I guess there's always a chance that the Bolt is constructed on and automated line. Either way, I've contacted the MFG and asked that they send me a replacement Extractor Assembly.
Given the size of the spring seeming to be the issue, would you believe it is simply defective? Or, could the spring have been intended for a different part/platform? The answer really doesn't have any bearing on my specific situation. But if it were the latter, that could be a very big problem for the MFG, and consumers, if they somehow let a bunch out the door with the wrong spring.
By the time I thought to swap a spring from a known BCG or go digging through the parts bin, I'd already put everything back together. So, I'll probably try those things tomorrow. I'm not worried about fixing it right now, as this BCG will ultimately become a spare after function testing.
Just another example of why inspection is so important. Even if it's only a Spare. Better to find and out now; when it's only mildly annoying.
I've had it happen before. I can't remember if it was the Sionics NP3 or BCM MicroSlick BCG, but hundreds of rounds through the NP3 and thousands of rounds through the BCM later, no issue. I guess I could try popping it into place and seeing if it will stay.
Since it did function properly when manually cycling rounds, I suppose it won't hurt to try running it until the replacement arrives. With the extractor installed the spring isn't going anywhere. Worst case and I end up with FTEs.
I'm going to pull the spring from a working BCG when I get home today to further isolate the "problem".
Buy a Colt extractor spring and get rid of the o ring. The o ring is a temporary fix for under powered springs
Buy a Colt extractor spring and get rid of the o ring. The o ring is a temporary fix for under powered springs
Thanks. I realize conventional wisdom has found that a number of today's springs and inserts have made o-rings largely unnecessary. I've got a few sets of replacements squirreled away, comprised of Tubbs and Sprinco. Nothing wrong with Colt, I just personally have no interest in owning their products.
For the situation at hand, consuming a spare part, for brand new BCG with defects, is the last option I was considering. If this were a well used BCG, I'd have changed it out and been done with it. I also didn't mention in the original post that the ejector roll pin also had a bit of an issue. The one end was mushroomed a little. Function would probably be unaffected, but it was annoying nonetheless. So, being a brand new BCG, I put it back on the seller to deal with the issues.
I did get in contact with them yesterday, and was only asking that they send a replacement extractor assembly and an ejector roll pin. They declined, insisting that they replace the whole BCG instead. Given that I don't have an urgent need for this BCG, I was fine with that solution. I actually find it pretty admirable for them to go that route. Knowing they handle the small things with that level of sincerity and commitment makes me feel confident that a larger issue would be resolved. It also indicates that they want to document the problems so any necessary corrections can be made. I respect and appreciate that effort.
I'm looking forward to the brand new replacement, and hope that this will be the end of it. As far as the o-ring, if the new BCG functions well I'll leave it alone until a situation arises dictating a change is necessary. I'll be sure to update when the new one arrives.
A properly made assembly will retain the extractor spring, insert, and o-ring when installed properly, necessary or not. The tension that retains the spring to the extractor is much more than the mass of those components combined by a margain. In the event that that is the issue, you need to look to see what issues are at fault. Could be the spring or extractor, or both.
A properly made assembly will retain the extractor spring, insert, and o-ring when installed properly, necessary or not. The tension that retains the spring to the extractor is much more than the mass of those components combined by a margain. In the event that that is the issue, you need to look to see what issues are at fault. Could be the spring or extractor, or both.
I absolutely agree in isolating the source(s) of any problem. Without doing so, the user may only cover up the symptoms; setting themselves up for the same or greater problems down the road.
But I'd like to turn some attention to the bolded portion in your reply. Whether or not the o-ring is necessary is one thing. If it's lack of necessity means that problems will occur from use is another. So, how many of you have actually seen issues develop that were attributed solely to running an extractor o-ring? And not something like, "I reload and it was a little rough on my brass." I'm talking instances that actually inhibited function; taking a rifle out of commission for defensive purposes until corrected. My ultimate point being, which of these bears the greater "risk" for an AR owner?
Hearing that an o-ring is unnecessary, and pulling it from their bolt(s).
-or-
Hearing the same, but opting for the "if it ain't broke" mantra.
I realize this might not be wholly subjective, and instead could be driven by the status of the rifle in question. But, in a general sense, what's the safest bet between those two options.
Combining the O ring with the correct spring will place too much tension on the extractor. Too much force will be needed to snap the extractor over the case rim during feeding causing feeding and extraction issues
Just wanted to provide an update and also pose a question. At the insistence of the vendor, I sent the BCG out on 1/24. They covered the shipping and UPS showed it was delivered to their location on 1/25. Again, this was solely going to be a spare, so I wasn't in a rush to get the new one back. I didn't even contact them to ask about the status of my replacement; although I was getting to that point, having not heard anything from their end. I figured I'd call today on my way home from work, but my wife texted me in the late morning saying, "That thing from that place showed up." Unsurprisingly, I knew exactly what she meant :lol: So, a week turnaround wasn't bad, especially considering that I wasn't hounding them to move things along.
Aside from the primary extractor problem, the first one also had an "issue" with the ejector roll pin; being mushroomed on one end. The replacement was perfect in that regard. I broke everything down and all looks good. The extractor is nice and snug, with good tension. One interesting difference between the two was the color of the o-ring. The first had like a deep sandy reddish color. The replacement had the traditional black ring that I'm used to seeing. So, maybe they did grab the wrong spring/insert/o-ring combo when putting the first together. Regardless, I'm pleased and grateful they were quick to make it right. As for the rest, it seems like it's well made. Good staking and chrome lining, which were also fine on the first one they sent. The staking was particularly consistent for the sample of two.
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t648/kmwood06/image_zpsbem9ufu0.jpeg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/kmwood06/media/image_zpsbem9ufu0.jpeg.html)
Now, I do have a question about the initial cleaning. The BCG was described as being, "packaged dry" and having a "dusty appearance." They weren't lying, and you can make this out a little bit from the photos. Although, while true for the carrier, the bolt clearly had been lubed.
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t648/kmwood06/image_zps4klfsdww.jpeg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/kmwood06/media/image_zps4klfsdww.jpeg.html)
Generally, I clean a new BCG with Gunzilla, lube it up with Slip EWL 2000, and call it a day. However, I've recently seen some comments across the web with people saying they soak new BCGs in motor oil. Anyone do this here? My searches didn't yield any specific threads on that topic. So if you do, what type of oil do you use? What's the benefit over just wiping the whole thing down with CLP and Lube? Do you soak it fully assembled or broken down? Are there any downsides to this method? Being a spare, I'm up for trying something new.
Overall, I'm happy with the outcome. While I'm a bit puzzled how the first BCG made it out with that extractor issue, I feel the mfg went above and beyond by insisting it be replaced. I'll test it for function when the weather allows, and then toss it in the spares bin.
My Colt came exactly as you described. Powder dry, save for the bolt itself.
I douche them good with clp and then let them sit in a rifle...muzzle down to keep the oil out of the RE. I suppose soaking them would work too.
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I just soak with CLP and call it a day. I'm not convinced that any one gun oil/lube is dramatically superior to another. If you want to try automotive engine oil, I've heard Mobil 1 is the choice of those who prefer engine oils for lubing firearms.
Just wanted to provide an update and also pose a question. At the insistence of the vendor, I sent the BCG out on 1/24. They covered the shipping and UPS showed it was delivered to their location on 1/25. Again, this was solely going to be a spare, so I wasn't in a rush to get the new one back. I didn't even contact them to ask about the status of my replacement; although I was getting to that point, having not heard anything from their end. I figured I'd call today on my way home from work, but my wife texted me in the late morning saying, "That thing from that place showed up." Unsurprisingly, I knew exactly what she meant :lol: So, a week turnaround wasn't bad, especially considering that I wasn't hounding them to move things along.
Aside from the primary extractor problem, the first one also had an "issue" with the ejector roll pin; being mushroomed on one end. The replacement was perfect in that regard. I broke everything down and all looks good. The extractor is nice and snug, with good tension. One interesting difference between the two was the color of the o-ring. The first had like a deep sandy reddish color. The replacement had the traditional black ring that I'm used to seeing. So, maybe they did grab the wrong spring/insert/o-ring combo when putting the first together. Regardless, I'm pleased and grateful they were quick to make it right. As for the rest, it seems like it's well made. Good staking and chrome lining, which were also fine on the first one they sent. The staking was particularly consistent for the sample of two.
Now, I do have a question about the initial cleaning. The BCG was described as being, "packaged dry" and having a "dusty appearance." They weren't lying, and you can make this out a little bit from the photos. Although, while true for the carrier, the bolt clearly had been lubed.
Generally, I clean a new BCG with Gunzilla, lube it up with Slip EWL 2000, and call it a day. However, I've recently seen some comments across the web with people saying they soak new BCGs in motor oil. Anyone do this here? My searches didn't yield any specific threads on that topic. So if you do, what type of oil do you use? What's the benefit over just wiping the whole thing down with CLP and Lube? Do you soak it fully assembled or broken down? Are there any downsides to this method? Being a spare, I'm up for trying something new.
Overall, I'm happy with the outcome. While I'm a bit puzzled how the first BCG made it out with that extractor issue, I feel the mfg went above and beyond by insisting it be replaced. I'll test it for function when the weather allows, and then toss it in the spares bin.
I, ironically (and thankfully ), received a toolcraft BCG in the mail yesterday as one of the last pieces for my 10.5 pistol build.
I sprayed the crap out of it with rem oil, full disassembly, cleaning with paper towels.
The upper was kinda dry, so I Slip2k'd a good wet layer, used my fingers and evenly coated all parts of the bolt. Reassembled and performed gas ring test.
While bolt is upright, I added 2 extra thick drops of slip2k on both sides of the bolt, fed it into the upper, and charged it until it felt smoothish. 10 rounds later and it was breaking in well. After I hit 50 yesterday, it was getting dark, but you can really tell the difference between the fresh bolt and now.
The last BCG I prepped was in a Colt and the rifle came coated with a preservative. I found out the hard way the preservative mixed with Frog Lube turns gummy and gums up the works. I cleaned off the preservative with acetone (which worked ok with some scrubbing with a rag) then lubed.
You can dunk the BCG or wipe the lube on with a rag, which ever you prefer. The most important part to lube is where the bolt slides in the carrier
Thanks for the input everyone. I'm thinking I might skip trying motor oil and opt for a slightly modified version of my usual method. I use a product called Tuf Glide on the exterior of my firearms. Not only does it make them look great, but it's proven to be a pretty good protectant/lubricant. Normally, I'll spray it onto a microfiber cloth and then wipe the exterior of my slides, barrels, rails, receivers, etc. For this new BCG, I'm going to clean and lube with Gunzilla/EWL as normal, and then spray the exterior down with some Tuf Glide. Then let it sit overnight and then wipe any excess. Maybe re-lube the bearing surfaces on the exterior with some Slip if necessary.
Not that any of this matters to anyone. But, if someone happens to have experience treating a new BCG with Tuf Glide, please feel free to chime in. Thanks!
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