View Full Version : Lame Ammo question: What to stock up on for doomsday...193, 855, 262 or 318
The Dumb Gun Collector
01-19-17, 16:48
Hey guys,
I have a few thousand rounds of Xm193 as my doomsday stash but it is fairly mediocre. Over a couple of weeks I ran three separate sets of three five shots groups and averaged them together out of my DD LW barreled rifle((1/7). Over time I have noticed it shoots about the same as my colt so I am using it as my std (plus it is the only rifle I have with anything other than a mil spec trigger, it has a bottom line Geissle. Well, here are the averages at 100 yards....
American Eagle Xm193 3.6 (average of 45 rounds)
Winchester 855 2.37 (average of 45 rounds)
CBC 77GR OTM 1.42 (average of 45 rounds)
I guess the obvious answer is CBC 77gr or equiv. But I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts for maybe a 2000 round doomsday supply. All of my rifles are 16 inch 1/7 twist BUT I do have a lovely 11.5 inch pistol with 1/7 twist.
262 is miles ahead of 193 and 855. 318 is that nonsense Barnes stuff isn't it?
Rockyriver
01-19-17, 20:06
855 because it's plentiful.
Of course there is a cost/benefit analysis to this. The 77g stuff is more than twice as expensive, and how far are you going to shoot?
The closer you are the less sense the 77g stuff makes.
I keep 500 rounds of IMI 77g, and 800 rounds of the CBC 77g. This would be very good emergency ammo. I've been trying to collect a stockpile, but its so fun to shoot that keep shooting it up.
But I also keep many cases of Federal XM855 and Federal XM193. Along with several practice cases of Wolf Gold, PMC M855, Geco M193.
If you can afford to buy and keep enough Mk262 around for emergencies, that is probably your best bet. But if you don't anticipate too much shooting beyond 200 yards and most within 100...I don't know.
I think it would be cool if we could get M855A1 Brown tip....
If you got the coin, Mk262 is kind of hard to argue with. If you got the coin. I've got a couple hundred rounds stockpiled and a handful of loaded mags for bump in the night, door kicked in, type things. My main stockpile at the moment is the IMI M193, shoots accurately, everything eats it, and I find it quite a bit nicer than any of the XM crap which I am currently shooting my way through and trying to replace 2:1 with IMI ammo. PMC X tac is my back up choice.
855 because it's plentiful.
Plentiful... but it's not much good at anything. I have a thousand or so rounds of it in stash... but it's my last resort stuff. Not very accurate, not fraggy, not notably better than other choices at penetration. M855's only strong point is its ruggedness. It's a sealed, rugged military round that's a little more trunk gun/truck gun worthy.
The closer you are the less sense the 77g stuff makes.
The whole upside to 77s are that they work wonderfully with short barrels at close distance AND also significantly extend the accurate and effective range on ANY rifle compared to ball.
The Dumb Gun Collector
01-21-17, 01:19
Any preference between CBC magtech and IMI 77grain?
The High Lord and Exalted Savior Donald Trump told me to diversify. I quit worrying about SHTF ammo and simply stocked up on a variety of ammo across the board. My Magtech and IMI 55gr. both shoot very good as does my MEN 56gr.
I also have a few thousand rounds of 77gr. (Magtech), 75gr. TAP, Speer Gold Dot (55gr. and 64gr.) and other stuff. Aside from having good ammo for accuracy testing, etc.. I quit worrying about the super duper wonderbullet and focused on multiple magic pills in the right spot.
both shoot very good as does my MEN 56gr.
I want to try some of that. The 7.62 is very good ammo.
The doomsday stash grows when ever I find a good price/trade on quality stuff. Always on the lookout for Gold Dot, T3, GMX TAP. I like that the Men 56 is first quality kraut mil/leo. I think I have some Nosler 64 bonded too.
The Dumb Gun Collector
01-21-17, 18:14
I just picked up some Magtech since I have been getting good accuracy.
sevenhelmet
01-21-17, 19:02
My long-term stash of 5.56 is a mix of CBC Magtech 262 clone, Hornady 62gr TAP, and Rio 855, all sealed up in ammo cans. Covers the bases for me. I don't use 55gr for anything but plinking and drills inside 100m, but I keep some around because it's cheap.
Wild variances in trajectory across the bullet weight spectrum are why I purged all of my 193 stash. I went all heavies for consistency with a few cans of 855 just because it's somewhat flat shooting.
I keep it simple, all my "stock pile" ammo is m193 spec and m855 spec stuff, usually Fed. AE xm193 and AE xm855, or both flavors of PMC xtac........ All my plinking, and practice ammo is 223 powered factory brass cased stuff like Fed AE223, or PMC bronze, steel cased Tula stuff for when I shoot in places that brass recovery is chore, or my own mild handloads in mixed brass with 55 grain FMJ Hornady or PPU projectiles. About once or twice a year I'll shoot a couple hundred rounds of xm193, or xm855 just because, and to also add some fresh LC brass to the reloading pile to replace culls and lost cases.
Buy. Buy cheap, but buy!
Which kind? the answer is... Yes.
The High Lord and Exalted Savior Donald Trump told me to diversify. I quit worrying about SHTF ammo and simply stocked up on a variety of ammo across the board. My Magtech and IMI 55gr. both shoot very good as does my MEN 56gr.
I also have a few thousand rounds of 77gr. (Magtech), 75gr. TAP, Speer Gold Dot (55gr. and 64gr.) and other stuff. Aside from having good ammo for accuracy testing, etc.. I quit worrying about the super duper wonderbullet and focused on multiple magic pills in the right spot.
We must be on the same Trump channel. 1000 of m855. 1000 CBC 55gr. 1750 of CBC 77gr. (This is what is keep loaded in the mags for things that may go bump in the night) 500 of 55gr gold dots. 500 of x tac and 500 of various m193. I reload mk262 clone loads (77smk or 75 hornady match) that I do all my training/shooting with.
vicious_cb
01-29-17, 02:33
Not sure why people like stocking up on M855 garbage.
Not sure why people like stocking up on M855 garbage.
I can be a reliable round. But it doesn't do anything very good. Beats having a bunch of steel cased ammo.
Not sure why people like stocking up on M855 garbage.
I can be a reliable round. But it doesn't do anything very good. Beats having a bunch of steel cased ammo.
Which raises the question: what bulk ammo to get if you want to have same POI as some of the 62 grain defense rounds (like fusion MSR)?
I really wish there was a 62gr equiv to the Wolf Gold M193 Taiwanese stuff.
PMC PTAC seems to be the closest I can find. Does Men or similar make something better than the Federal XM855 stuff we love to hate on?
vicious_cb
01-29-17, 14:19
I can be a reliable round. But it doesn't do anything very good. Beats having a bunch of steel cased ammo.
If you are looking for a round with mil-spec primers, sealed and crimped and tar sealant around the bullet you can always get something like IMI M193. M855 sucks for pretty much everything, poor terminal ballistics and I cant shoot steel with it.
Which raises the question: what bulk ammo to get if you want to have same POI as some of the 62 grain defense rounds (like fusion MSR)?
I really wish there was a 62gr equiv to the Wolf Gold M193 Taiwanese stuff.
PMC PTAC seems to be the closest I can find. Does Men or similar make something better than the Federal XM855 stuff we love to hate on?
Since Federal fusion is still .223 velocity you can get something like .223 62gr FMJ Prvi. But honestly if you're shooting 100 yards and in, the difference in POI is negligible.
hotrodder636
01-29-17, 15:19
Totally agree with this. I keep some Mk318, IMI Mk262, Gold Dots, IMI 62gr M855 and some of my home made 75 grain pills.
I plink with whatever; 55 gr, 62 gr usually LC or IMI.
The High Lord and Exalted Savior Donald Trump told me to diversify. I quit worrying about SHTF ammo and simply stocked up on a variety of ammo across the board. My Magtech and IMI 55gr. both shoot very good as does my MEN 56gr.
I also have a few thousand rounds of 77gr. (Magtech), 75gr. TAP, Speer Gold Dot (55gr. and 64gr.) and other stuff. Aside from having good ammo for accuracy testing, etc.. I quit worrying about the super duper wonderbullet and focused on multiple magic pills in the right spot.
If you are looking for a round with mil-spec primers, sealed and crimped and tar sealant around the bullet you can always get something like IMI M193. M855 sucks for pretty much everything, poor terminal ballistics and I cant shoot steel with it.
Since Federal fusion is still .223 velocity you can get something like .223 62gr FMJ Prvi. But honestly if you're shooting 100 yards and in, the difference in POI is negligible.
Well ouch... In all my examination of the Fusion MSR I never picked up on the fact it was 223 velocity. Should have suspected!
OK, I guess I keep buying decent 193 clones and adjust. And revisit the defense ammo pick!
Failure2Stop
01-29-17, 16:28
Not sure why people like stocking up on M855 garbage.
M855 and M193 is what I will use as currency.
I keep good stuff to do work.
M855 and M193 is what I will use as currency.
I keep good stuff to do work.
Well put.
Currently developing my own 75gr stuff to mass produce for competition then stack away extra, meanwhile have some IMI 77's and my own 55's on hand just to not be behind. I really like the savings on reloading 75/77gr vs. buying it. Just a few hours with the blue press and I get it for 1/3 the cost of factory and my own two eyes for QC which is more than what can be said for a lot of stuff. Maybe your budget can ignore a couple hundred bucks savings per 1K but mine cannot at the present.
This was one of the best ammo deals I have seen in awhile. This is SS109 ammunition that was made in Belgium by FN. The first place I saw it was SGAmmo for .35 cents per round delivered. The next deal which was the best was AmmunitionDepot. They had a deal that if you purchased (2) M2A1 ammo cans, your order shipped free. They had the same ammo for 299.99. So the price of the ammo, plus (2) additional cans was 319.98 delivered. Order took 5 days from time of order to drop off at my porch.
1. Tips do not have green paint on them.
2. Rounds are packed (50) to a box and (20) boxes per case.
3. Primers have green sealant similar to the Carl Gustav SS109 ammo that was one the market a while back.
4. Lot numbers from all the vendors I have seen (SGammo, AmmunitionDepot, JG Sales, etc..) all appear to be the same. That tells me that one company most likely brought it in, and then sold it to the others.
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/iraqgunz/IMG_20170215_221634654_zpsrfmkchbh.jpg (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/iraqgunz/media/IMG_20170215_221634654_zpsrfmkchbh.jpg.html)
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/iraqgunz/IMG_20170215_221810192_zpshhgrsgpd.jpg (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/iraqgunz/media/IMG_20170215_221810192_zpshhgrsgpd.jpg.html)
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/iraqgunz/IMG_20170215_221927742_zps8nqeqqte.jpg (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/iraqgunz/media/IMG_20170215_221927742_zps8nqeqqte.jpg.html)
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/iraqgunz/IMG_20170215_222006950_zpssz2jqccx.jpg (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/iraqgunz/media/IMG_20170215_222006950_zpssz2jqccx.jpg.html)
My doomsday stash consists of, a pallet of toilet paper, a few big bags of cheetos, a couple beer helmets and a bottle of lagavulin scotch. 5 years after shtf that toilet paper will be worth an Abrams tank!
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Been stocking up on Speer Gold Dot .223 64 grain and Remington Hog Hammer (Barnes HP bullets) .223 62 grain ammo.
I have two Colt 6721' s with 1/9 HBAR barrels since they are currently the only Maryland legal Colts so I am shying away from the heavier rounds. Both of these shoot well and are readily available.
Midway was running a clearance sale on the Hog Hammers at $13.69 per 20 but I just checked and they are back up to $25+ a box again.
I have a couple thousand rounds of Federal and Winchester white box 5.56 for plinking.
Ammo for stocking up I think good quality ball ammo for both rifles and pistols.
A lot of people have been killed by ball ammo. If we get to a point where it is truly dooms day, you want stuff to put in your firearm that will go bang. For with out things that go bang, you would be better off with a baseball bat for defense.
855 because it's plentiful.
This. I know it's far from ideal 5.56 rnd, but volume of fire counts too after ran out of the good stuff on first zombie wave.
If doomsdays doesn't happen soon you will just have to shoot it off, so buy what you a) need to shoot offense/defensively accurately and b) what you are ready to cycle through to keep it fresh. Personally I am not worried about 'which round shoots to within XX measurements' but more with availability/cost (for XXXX thousand rounds) quality and reliability. JMO
Fusion has the best all around performance to price ratio for gen purpose, imo. I have about 2x what I could carry realistically.
Everything else I buy is m193. 855 is more expensive and sucks more ime.
This. I know it's far from ideal 5.56 rnd, but volume of fire counts too after ran out of the good stuff on first zombie wave.
Same here. I think M855 sucks at almost everything, but I have cans of it as 4th string ammo.
I buy flats of Federal M193 when the price is right. I reviewed a few autopsy reports that leads me to believe it is an effective cartridge inside 100 meters.
IMI, MEN and Magtech as well as Geco 5.56 (M193 clones) have all performed well enough through all of my weapons.
My 2 cents... accuracy is an important consideration as well as bullet performance. So out of my suggestions... be sure the ammo shots as accurately as possible as well .... especially with all the various M193 and Mk 262ish clones.
IMHO... buy the best performing ammo you can find... you will only carry so much with you... and as others have said.. you can barter with M193 / M855
Speer GD and Fusion still works fantasticly at .223 velocities... so 5.56 velocities are not really needed.
77gr Mk262 is a good choice for soft targets.... I love the Creedmoor loaded .223 load with the 77gr outstanding accuracy from my rifles.
Mk318 / Nosler 64gr BSB for "hardened" / cover .
Cheap 75gr Hornady Steel Match will work as well as Mk262 ... as long as your rifle shoots the 75gr well.
As for M193... well.... it has worked well for decades... but find one that shoots accurately from your rifle.
I have had surprising differences in accuracy between all the various M193 brands.
The previous batch of MEN 56gr shoots da_n good for its price point. ( I haven't tried any of the current batch ) . Enough so, that if I could out and out trade all my XM193... I would do it now.
I keep a fairly big stash on hand at all times, used to be all brass, M193, M855, and some MK262 clones...but bought about 4k of the golden tiger with hard primers from SG last year and set up a gun just for plinking to burn through it.
My "grab-and-go" ammo cans have the following, most of it being almost $1 per round or more (and ALL of it 5.56 NATO pressure, no .223):
IMI Mk262 77gr Razor = 1600
Mk318 = 1300 ***my EOTWAWKI choice, to be used up before starting in on the others***
TAP T2 75gr = 200
Black Hills 70gr GMX 5.56 = 300
SSA 70gr "Brown tip" clone (Barnes TSX bullet) = 200
IMI M855 = 1000
I have several thousand more M855 and about a thousand M193 for "plinking". I need to get a life........ :rolleyes:
I do not have ANY steel cased AR ammo. To me, Wolf/Tula/Monarch/whatever is for AK's and not AR's. YMMV
Over a million rounds of the Belgian SS109 available from ammunitiondepot. Pretty smoking deal.
Not sure why people like stocking up on M855 garbage.
I buy the Federal 5.56 by the 150 round loose pack, a box or two every payday. I buy a) what's available and b) what's cheapest. I've got about 20 boxes of M193 and maybe 6 of the M855. I'll keep buying both.
Over a million rounds of the Belgian SS109 available from ammunitiondepot. Pretty smoking deal.
If it shoots anything like the British SS109 available a few years ago, it will be suitable for shooting reduced distance 200 yard High Power matches.
Nope, the British Radway Green stuff was garbage.
If it shoots anything like the British SS109 available a few years ago, it will be suitable for shooting reduced distance 200 yard High Power matches.
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