Hornady Black Ammunition

[Kdubya]

Anyone have more info on this release from Hornady? Looks like, amongst other calibers, there are 4 options in .223/5.56. To me, the one that stands out is the 75 gr Interlock HD SBR. The other three options seem rather generic, and have no details listed on the Hornady site. Fortunately, they do go into a little bit of detail with the HD SBR. I'm not sure of I'd refer to the description as one of bold claims, but its interesting nonetheless.

From Hornady...

"5.56 Nato 75 gr InterLock® HD SBR™ Black is designed specifically for 10.5"-11.5" SBR’s by using proprietary propellant technology and a bullet designed with technology from industry leading Critical Duty® FlexLock® bullets. This round provides exceptional ammunition performance in SBR’s suppressed or unsuppressed, with virtually no flash or residue, dramatically reduced sound signature, will not foul or overheat suppressors, uniform velocity and accuracy, and provides controllable rate of fire in automatic platforms. Designed to meet the requirements of the FBI protocol, this round is the optimum choice for 10.5"-11.5" barreled 5.56 rifles."

The sound signature portion is what I find to be noteworthy. I'd be interested to know what "dramatically" actually means. This could certainly benefit those shooting suppressed or unsuppressed. For those of us holding out for a can, hoping the HPA passes, a dramatic reduction in report is quite desirable. Still, I'd qualify dramatic as at, or close to, "hearing safe". The low flash, consistent velocity, etc. are all desirable in their own right, but I'll really be looking forward to reports on the sound signature.

I'm also interested in the Interlock bullet, as I believe the only current offering in .223/5.56 featuring that projectile is a 60gr in the American Whitetail line. Generally, good hunting loads are often suited well for defense. But, honestly, I don't know too much about defensive application for the Interlock bullet. With this new HD SBR round, it certainly looks like the primary purpose is for exactly that.

All in all, it looks like it could be a very viable, purpose built option for the SBR and Pistol crowd. What say you? Anyone else have more info, or possibly some testing?

http://m.hornady.com/store/5.56-NATO-75-gr-Interlock-HD-SBR-Black/

[ISiman/oh]

Hopefully they can fill the market gap that I have been noticing more more. Which is defensive ammo for the 223/556 carbine. Stroll through any gun shot and you will find 10s and 10s of defensive ammo for pistol calibers and maybe 1 (if your lucky for the carbine). Which is weird seeming the AR15 has been selling so well over the past few years.


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[markm]

Stroll through any gun shot and you will find 10s and 10s of defensive ammo for pistol calibers and maybe 1 (if your lucky for the carbine). Which is weird seeming the AR15 has been selling so well over the past few years.


CCW is more widely marketable for manufacturers. And Pistols are wildly under powered compared to carbine... so there's a lot of room for gimmicks and marketing in pistol ammo.

Carbine is pretty simple. Buy a heavy OTM, A bonded, or that goofy GMX solid copper nonsense. :) Hornady seems to come up with marketing claims that may or may not deliver. (Superformance ;) ) so we'll see. I don't see myself deviating from Mk 262 any time soon.

[ST911]

Hopefully they can fill the market gap that I have been noticing more more. Which is defensive ammo for the 223/556 carbine. Stroll through any gun shot and you will find 10s and 10s of defensive ammo for pistol calibers and maybe 1 (if your lucky for the carbine). Which is weird seeming the AR15 has been selling so well over the past few years.

There is no shortage of .223/5.56 loads suitable for that purpose. The gap is mostly in consumer knowledge. Followed by some LE/gov skus with limited or unpredictable availability in commercial channels, but even then their attributes are available in alternate form.


CCW is more widely marketable for manufacturers. And Pistols are wildly under powered compared to carbine... so there's a lot of room for gimmicks and marketing in pistol ammo.

Carbine is pretty simple. Buy a heavy OTM, A bonded, or that goofy GMX solid copper nonsense. :) Hornady seems to come up with marketing claims that may or may not deliver. (Superformance ;) ) so we'll see. I don't see myself deviating from Mk 262 any time soon.

Yup.

[Kdubya]

There is no shortage of .223/5.56 loads suitable for that purpose. The gap is mostly in consumer knowledge. Followed by some LE/gov skus with limited or unpredictable availability in commercial channels, but even then their attributes are available in alternate form..

I think both assertions are correct. At a gun store (Cabela's, Gander, even a local small chain in my area that manages to stock some of the Defensive pistol rounds you only see online) the selection for defensive carbine ammo is sparse, at best. Then again, a number of the rounds that are preferred for defensive use aren't always marketed as such. Even then, things I don't think I've ever seen for Defensive Carbine in a gun store include:

Winchester Ranger
Federal LE (although the Tipped TBBC has been making an occasional appearance at one location)
TSX varieties (namely the 50gr)
MK 262 & 318
Gold Dots

I'm sure I'm missing some that have been equally elusive. On some occasions, I have seen the Tipped TBBC, Fusion (which are basically Gold Dots), Remington CLUB, and maybe the GMX. Even rarer than finding them, however, is finding them at a reasonable price. Not even a low price, but a tolerable price. The 2 or 3 times I have seen a good deal, I pretty much bought out the entire stock.

While it might be nice to see the LGS regularly stock better defensive ammo at a reasonable price, I think we'll continue to be relegated to buying defensive ammo from where the majority of us are already getting it; Online. When one does just a little bit of searching on the Web, pretty much all of the preferred and/or recommended defensive carbine rounds can be found. And at a good price. Maybe it's better this way, as I don't see any of the brick and mortar stores coming close to online pricing; even with range/target ammo. It might be even more frustrating to see them carry a wide selection of defensive carbine ammo, but at an outrageous price. So, I'm fine with continuing to do the bulk of my purchases for all ammo online.

Back to this HD SBR. I agree that companies, including Hornady, often say things that are little more than marketing gimmicks. However, there's a difference between a product line being called "Hypersonic" or "Superformance" and specifically naming improvements like "reduced sound signature". Still, that doesn't make the claims any more true. So, I guess the jury is still out until people can start getting their hands on the new Hornady loading for testing. I'll be interested to follow this one, but have tempered any excitement.

[pinzgauer]

However, there's a difference between a product line being called "Hypersonic" or "Superformance" and specifically naming improvements like "reduced sound signature". Still, that doesn't make the claims any more true.

Don't know anything about the black ammo.

But H superperformance ammo has some measurable characteristics that have been verified. They have really pushed the powder blending front to maximize performance in bolt guns while staying in SAAMI pressures.

Likewise, I've seen big differences between powders in pistol magnums in terms of fireball and loudness. So it would not surprise me at all that H would/could blend to minimize those, which would have benefit for suppressed usage.

This is especially true in rifle capacity cases in pistol length barrels.

[Kdubya]

Don't know anything about the black ammo.

But H superperformance ammo has some measurable characteristics that have been verified. They have really pushed the powder blending front to maximize performance in bolt guns while staying in SAAMI pressures.

Likewise, I've seen big differences between powders in pistol magnums in terms of fireball and loudness. So it would not surprise me at all that H would/could blend to minimize those, which would have benefit for suppressed usage.

This is especially true in rifle capacity cases in pistol length barrels.

I won't contest the fact that measurable differences have been realized with previously released loadings. That reality is actually why I'm hopeful these claims are true.

A while back there was a thread about QA/QC for which a side conversation spun off regarding where we'd like to see advancements for the AR platform. It was based on the premise that, at this point in time, the majority of rifles are serviceable and reliable. So, the question was posed as to where companies should focus on advancement. IIRC, the two areas I mentioned were coatings and ammo. Seeing this new offering from Hornady makes me pretty happy. I'm glad to know companies are seeking advancements in ammo, and hope they keep doing so. Doesn't mean we shouldn't verify; judging based upon performance, and not claims. But I'm happy to give them the benefit of the doubt.

FWIW. While I think the marketing from companies can be a little hyperbolic at times, it won't stop me from using one of the products. For instance, the 62gr Remington Hypersonic round is one of my go-to options for defensive purposes. If something performs well, I don't care what they call it or how they describe it.

[vicious_cb]

Sounds like they just rebranded their TAP SBR load and made sound it cool by making it BLACK™

http://www.hornadyle.com/products/rifle-ammunition/556-nato/75-gr-tap-sbr

http://1696252748.rsc.cdn77.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/hornady%20033.JPG
https://app.box.com/shared/static/q6nmbgppko7y8mcooelggqmh43a6lubk.jpg

Tested by Molon
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?184113-Range-Report-Hornady-5-56mm-75-Grain-TAP-SBR

[Kdubya]

Nice catch Vicious. I actually feel kind of dumb for missing that comparison. I knew that the TAP SBR existed, but had never done much research. Looks like the claims/specs for each are identical; sound signature and all. Even the velocities listed are a complete match (when referencing the 11.5" 5.56 Nato Barrel). I guess the silver lining is that they've taken an "LE only" load and decided to market it to civilians. Not that "LE only" would stop a civilian from purchasing some if they wanted it.

[Rayrevolver]

Marketing hype says 6-7db noise reduction. Might be worth a look.

[vicious_cb]

I just hope they bring back those shiny black nickel plated brass cases like they did with their FPD line back in the day. You can't call your new line BLACK™ without those cool black nickel plated cases. :D



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