Lewis Machine & Tool CQB MRP / Knight's Armament

[StealthOPS32]

I'm in the market for a 5.56 upper or complete rifle. The past few days I've been obsessed with the LMT CQB MRP uppers. I'm thinking about either the 10.5" or 12" version. I've find the 12" piston upper for about $1480 from tombstonetactical. I'm really digging that thing. The 10.5" I think is only Direct Impingement, right? I'm not opposed to a DI upper so I'm still keeping that in mind. I also really like the Knight's Armament SR-15 E3 Mod 2 MLOK 11.5" upper. So I have a few questions for all the gun masters on here who have experience with either or all of these:

1) Are they as good as I've been hearing? And let me say, I've been hearing they are pretty damn good.

2) Is the piston system worth the extra money? I think it's pretty cool that you can swap from piston to DI on these by changing the barrel and BCG.

3) I've also thought about getting the 10.5" DI with the A-frame front sight post as a kinda retro MK18 but I know the handguards aren't free floated on this model. For those who have used this model, what kind of accuracy are you seeing? Also, do you guys think the A-frame is outdated? Does it obscure your view if you put a red dot or other optic on it?

4) Which would you prefer out of all these choices, and why? Are Knight's DI guns worth the coin when I can get a piston LMT for similar price?

5) Where can I find the best prices on these models?

6) Any other input or recommendations you have are appreciated. Thank you.




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[vicious_cb]

You buy the MRP for modularity. Being able go to from a piston 10.5" all the way up to a 16" DI midlength is huge IMO. Or if you want to change calibers like to .300 blk. If you plan on sticking with 1 bbl length then get the KAC. Both are very good guns, the enhanced LMT bolt is pretty comparable to the E3 bolt in that both should last the life of the gun. Just be honest about what you plan to do with the gun like whether or not you plan on dicking around with multiple barrels or calibers.

[sevin8nin]

Responded in line below. To be honest, most of your answers could be found by searching on this site or the internet in general.


I'm in the market for a 5.56 upper or complete rifle. The past few days I've been obsessed with the LMT CQB MRP uppers. I'm thinking about either the 10.5" or 12" version. I've find the 12" piston upper for about $1480 from tombstonetactical. I'm really digging that thing. The 10.5" I think is only Direct Impingement, right? I'm not opposed to a DI upper so I'm still keeping that in mind. I also really like the Knight's Armament SR-15 E3 Mod 2 MLOK 11.5" upper. So I have a few questions for all the gun masters on here who have experience with either or all of these:

1) Are they as good as I've been hearing? And let me say, I've been hearing they are pretty damn good.
Yes, they are good. You get what you pay for with either company.


2) Is the piston system worth the extra money? I think it's pretty cool that you can swap from piston to DI on these by changing the barrel and BCG.
This will be a lot of personal preference but you asked for it so: No, the piston system is not worth the extra money. I DO like 12" barrels, but you're probably better suited with the 10.5" DI barrel. But, a lot of this will depend on how you plan on using.

3) I've also thought about getting the 10.5" DI with the A-frame front sight post as a kinda retro MK18 but I know the handguards aren't free floated on this model. For those who have used this model, what kind of accuracy are you seeing? Also, do you guys think the A-frame is outdated? Does it obscure your view if you put a red dot or other optic on it?
It's called an 'FSB' or Front Sight Base. It's the gas block and the front sight tower and it's been around since the beginning of the AR15. Plenty of resources on this site and other places that discuss the pros and cons and its use with optics. I personally have nothing against it, but on the MK18 Mod 0 it means less handguard space for accessory mounting and hand placement.

4) Which would you prefer out of all these choices, and why? Are Knight's DI guns worth the coin when I can get a piston LMT for similar price?
Both are fantastic guns, but the LMT is really only a 'better' choice if you want to take advantage of the modular nature of the upper. If you don't then the KAC will be lighter. I think reliability would be a toss up. I personally have 3 LMT MRP guns as I love the platform, don't mind the extra weight, and like the ability to swap barrels and calibers.

5) Where can I find the best prices on these models?
the internet?

6) Any other input or recommendations you have are appreciated. Thank you.
I think the MRP platform really only wins out over anything else IF you want to be able to change barrels. I currently have 10.5" 300blackout, custom 12.5" DI, lightened 16" di, and dimpled 16" SS 5-r rifled barrels for mine. I'd like to get a 14.5" barrel as well, but to be honest the barrels will probably stay where they're at for the most part and not get moved around alot. For some reason, the concept still excites me a lot.

[MichaelVain]

I have the SR15 Mod 2 11.5" MLOK. I bought it right before a 2 day TAPS class with Mac. The first time I shot it was during the class. I didn't do a thing except oil it up, stick a T1 in a KAC mount on it and put a CQB can on the end. It ran right out of the box shooting XM193 and zeroing didn't take long. It ran perfectly fine for the class. Superb gun.

[StealthOPS32]

Thanks for the replies. And yes, I realize the internet will have the best prices, but I was looking for leads on specific websites that carry them and are reputable companies to deal with. I've dubbed a couple sites, but most of them are out of stock and backordered.

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[jstalford]

I would get the lmt off gunbroker or the EE if you go that route.

I just for a 14.5" mrp upper with bcg and ch and under 100rounds for $699 shipped.


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[StealthOPS32]

That's a good deal jstalford. Was it new or used?

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[Skyyr]

I've ran the KAC Mod 2 rifles, as well as LMT MWSs (the bigger brother to the MRP).

1) Both are great. Absolutely bomb-proof. The LMT MRP uppers and MWS's just feel... solid. You get the feeling you could use it as a baseball bat if you needed to and not a thing would break on it. The KAC guns feel different, very light and almost toylike. They're almost functionally minimalistic. Both very refined guns, but in different ways.

2) No experience with the piston system personally. I do know that with the piston system, you're limited to the shorter carbine-length rails on the MRP (as the gas block has to be exposed), whereas the DI upper can be had with carbine or mid/rifle-length. Since the MRP rails are monolithic, they can't be swapped out, so it's a permanent choice.

3) The traditional uppers are just that. LMT makes a quality product, but the 10.5 with FSB is not an MRP - no quick-change barrel system, no monolithic railed upper, etc. If you're decide you want a more traditional upper, I'd rather go with a KAC Mod 2 11.5 over an LMT 10.5.

4) Personally, I prefer precision rifles, so the KAC LPR Mod 2 would be my choice. I'd be happy with either one, though. The KAC DI rifles are as expensive as LMT pistons due to the proprietary nature of KAC's improvements. A lot of money and time went into refining the system, hence the cost. KAC's bolts are guaranteed to last 20k rounds (about 3 times longer than most others), and their rifles are some of the softest shooting available. You're not buying an off-the-shelf AR with a KAC, you're buying the next evolution of the system, based on Eugene Stoner's own improvements to the system. Unless you're going to shoot suppressed, I don't think you'll find the LMT piston system worth the cost.

5) For LMT, try Rat Worx. For KAC, Lawmen's or Bolt Carrier.

6) If you want quick-swap capabilities and modularity, go with the LMT. If you want longevity of the barrel and bolt, I'd go KAC. Also, keep in mind that the MRP is limited to picatinny rails and the KAC Mod 2s are limited to MLOK and KeyMod - that might affect your decision as well.

Also, with the LMT rifles, you can only use barrels that have their proprietary sleeve. Currently, that means buying only LMT barrels (which run $400-600) or sending off an aftermarket barrel to someone like Marvin Pitts to have it converted. In either case, it's neither cheap nor quick.

Granted, the KAC rifle is somewhat unique in that its designed to be ran only with their bolt; however, you can temporarily use a regular bolt in a pinch, and you could always replace the barrel with a non-KAC barrel using the right tools if getting a replacement bolt was not a possibility. That sways the flexibility more towards KAC, in my opinion. But again, both are fine rifles.

[jstalford]

That's a good deal jstalford. Was it new or used?

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Read it again ;), lol


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[StealthOPS32]

Read it again ;), lol


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Oh haha I thought you meant that you got 100 rounds of ammo with it.

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[jstalford]

No worries I can see how it would be interpreted that way.

I have seen new mrp uppers for $850 as well. That said if monolithic and quick change don't meant much to you, old probably get a kac mod2.


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[StealthOPS32]

Thank you Skyyr, your post was very helpful. It seems like both rifles have a lot to offer in their own way. Eventually, I'll probably own one of each :D

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[hotrodder636]

Operation Parts also carries a good selection of KAC products

[StealthOPS32]

Oh another thing I forgot to ask about: is there anything special about either the KAC or LMT barrels aside from the LMT barrel having proprietary quick change slot. Do their barrels last any longer than a standard 4150 CMV barrel?

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[sevin8nin]

I can't speak directly to the KAC barrels, but the LMT MRP barrels are a bit heavier contour, with a 45deg angle drilled gas port. The angle is supposed to help with gas port erosion over time. I've found their chrome lined 1/7 twist barrels to be pretty accurate. However, I really really like my 16" SS 5-r rifled barrel from LMT. When I do my part i've managed some very nice 5-shot groups with 77gr OTM.

this is getting boring without pictures, so here's my MWS and long rail MRP recently:
http://i.imgur.com/PjUEa1Y.jpg

My CQB MRP has been in NFA jail for a while and this picture is out of date, but here it is.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/b0b0o7o7/IMG_20151110_185138_zpseynivpch.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/b0b0o7o7/media/IMG_20151110_185138_zpseynivpch.jpg.html)

My Long rail MRP has the 16" SS 5-r barrel on it that was dimpled and cerakoted black. The CQB MRP in the picture has a reduced contour 16" barrel on it. Currently in NFA jail with a 12.5" barrel on it.

[StealthOPS32]

Seven8nin those are some fantastic looking rifles! Thanks for posting the pictures. And thank you for the information on the LMT barrels.

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