View Full Version : US Army taps industry for replacement for the M-4
RogerinTPA
09-19-08, 15:10
AND not restricting the caliber to 5.56MM. Very interesting if you haven't read it.
http://www.military.com/news/article/army-taps-industry-for-m4-replacement.html?col=1186032369115
Maybe they'll take another look at the XM-8?
I like that rifle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63cxeEq5gUk
Yes, it is interesting, but don't hold your breath. The Army seems to be stuck on the next technological leap forward. I'm hopeful the Army will find something that's more reliable and less maintenance, but I'm not optimistic about it. My biggest gripe with the DI system is the amount of user maintenance involved, but it does always run as long as I keep it wet.
olds442tyguy
09-19-08, 15:45
Maybe they'll take another look at the XM-8?
I like that rifle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63cxeEq5gUk
HK should be giving us XM8's for free after we gave them 27 million dollars and they tried to give us a G36 with even more problems in return.
There are people around who were close to the XM8 testing, and not many of them that talk about it speak very highly of the rifle.
HK should be giving us XM8's for free after we gave them 27 million dollars and they tried to give us a G36 with even more problems in return.
There are people around who were close to the XM8 testing, and not many of them that talk about it speak very highly of the rifle.
We don't want a rifle that melts, even if we paid them 27 million dollars to develop it. Just cause it says HK on the side, doesn't make it worth anything.
Just cause it says HK on the side, doesn't make it worth anything.
You could put HK on a pile of steamy dog crap and people would want it. :p
You could put HK on a pile of steamy dog crap and people would want it. :p
No...HK could make a piece of steamy dog crap, and people would want it. And their marketing department and fanboys would say that special forces units around the world use it.
I would bet dollars to donuts that, if the M4/M16 is replaced, it will be replaced by the FN SCAR L in 5.56 or 6.8 and the SCAR H.
I would bet dollars to donuts that, if the M4/M16 is replaced, it will be replaced by the FN SCAR L in 5.56 or 6.8 and the SCAR H.
And what are ya'lls opinions on the SCAR series? They look pretty funky to me, but I've never seen one in person...
I'd be VERY interested in hearing what some of the pros around this site would think is the IDEAL that you'd LIKE to see the service adopt, if you could get them to adopt whatever you wanted in the areas of....
Caliber, and
Platform
For caliber, I'd hope they go with something in the 6mm+ family of bullets. The calibers in this group are well established as being the potentially perfect all-around calibers. Something like the 6.8spc or Grendel 6.5. Test them head to head in fair tests, plus any other worthy competitors, maybe the 6.5 Creedmore, etc. See which of them is most effective in the widest range of weapons and combat situations, and runs best through various rifles.
For the platform, go with something that is (a) made in the U.S., and (b) an evolution of the AR family of rifles. Probably something among the SCAR, HK416, Masada group.
Put one of those great rifles, in a gas piston version, together with a great caliber like 6.8 spc. Then make the rifle available in several lengths for regular troops, DSM's, and for non-combat soldiers. Then you'd have one heck of a primary caliber and small arms platform. That should get our services by for the next "x" number of years until the next big jump in small arms technology is out.
RogerinTPA
09-19-08, 18:54
And what are ya'lls opinions on the SCAR series? They look pretty funky to me, but I've never seen one in person...
That would be the easy bet, since SOF is using them. It would be interesting to see the new rifles that will be produced from the solicitation and see how they all compare in a truly fair competition. Hopefully, they will not default to the HK416 uppers to save money.
Interesting. Very interesting. Think if Army decides to move away from 5.56 we can finally get it at half-decent prices? :D
I think this is a great idea and long overdue. Show us a caliber and rifle design you think produces superior performance, send 'em in, we'll test 'em with everyone else's ideas. What's not to like?
-B
The Dumb Gun Collector
09-19-08, 21:48
Whatever HK puts out there will be an even larger number of people who react negativly out of misplaced loyalty to this or that brand or platform. No matter how much objective testing or evidence they will say there was somebody who they talked to at the gunshop who said different. Again, I just wonder how HK dupes all those special ops groups in the U.S., and entire nations in Europe, Asia and the Middle East into using their stuff. Probably good marketing.
On the other hand, it looks like HK advertises about 1/10000 as much as some of its competitors who have a lot of web presence but have yet to be adopted by anyone. Hell, as far as I can tell, H&K barely advertises at all.
That being said, I doubt anything will come out of this.
Well, as a user of the U.S. Army issue weapon in combat, here is my input:
I would like to see the 6.8 SPC as the standard round.
I base this off of the research and presentations that are available online and specifically from the "Time for a Change" document by Dr. Gary Roberts.
A weapon that is easily modified from a base configuration to suit the many roles it will serve.
A rifle that can be used as a DMR or converted to a PSD with minimal parts and tools.
A rifle that is completely ambidextrous, absolutely transparent for the user to switch from one hand to the other.
This will make the weapon as efficient for all the left-handed shooters as it is for a right-handed shooter. No more compromises.
A weapon based on the piston system.
It has been proven to be more reliable, cleaner and cooler.
A weapon that has full compatibility with after market products and attachments.
Sometimes the military drives the civilian market, and sometimes the civilian market drives the military.
A rifle that is capable of semi, 3 round burst and full auto in it's basic configuration.
Limiting the weapon is not the solution, proper training and basic marksmanship and discipline is the answer.
I suppose I have missed a few things, but that is what we need today, heck we need it yesterday, in our hands on the front lines.
you can just about bet that if they come to a new system it will take much of the ar platform parts. to much inventory to scrap.
I would bet dollars to donuts that, if the M4/M16 is replaced, it will be replaced by the FN SCAR L in 5.56 or 6.8 and the SCAR H.
I'll take that bet.
IMO, a piston-driven AR like the 416 or LWRC has the best shot at replacing the current M4 platform.
I like the idea of a 6.8 SPC in a piston system for a lot of reasons.
Piston driven ARs... I'd rather have something that was designed from the ground up to run a piston.
nicholst55
09-21-08, 01:27
Piston driven ARs... I'd rather have something that was designed from the ground up to run a piston.
+1. A piston-driven AR reminds me too much of the original Trapdoor Springfields in .50-70 that were modified muzzle loading muskets. Also sounds too much like the M14 - we'll make it betterfasternewer, and still be able to use M1 machinery to produce it. Not!
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