View Full Version : Bushmaster AK carbine
Hello, everybody... I am new to the Forum , and I have been researching the Bushmaster models to have finally decided on the AK carbine , which is the one with the 14.5 inches heavy barrel plus the AK muzzle , that , being 2.5 inches , makes the barrel lenght 17 inches ...!!! The A3 type carry handle is removable to be ready for optics, etc. My question is : I have not seen that model , here or anywhere , or in the pics tread , etc . Is there a problem with it that it is not popular ? I really will like to know to avoid the purchase ... The model number is BCWA3F - 14.5AK Thanks josey88
Master_of_Sparks
09-20-08, 10:36
My suggestion would be to keep researching, reading and talking to people with experience before you decide. Have you "researched" anything other than Bushies?
No offense, but I don't think you're informed enough yet, and may regret that choice.
The info is already out there. Take a little more time....
Parabellum9x19mm
09-20-08, 10:41
i wouldn't get a 14.5 or 16" HBAR if i was you.
before i knew any better, i got a bushmaster 16" HBAR as my 1st AR and wound up regretting it down the road.
i would have been better off with a lighter weight M4 profile instead of a HBAR, perhaps a 14.5" M4 with an Izzy flash hider, if i bought a Bushmaster at all.
but i probably should have bought a different brand entirely as it is....such as LMT or Sabre or BCM
what do you want to use your rifle for?
why do you think you want a short HBAR? why do you think you want a brake instead of a FH? why are you attracted to the BFI brand anyway, with all the other choices on the market?
i would have been better off with a lighter weight M4 profile instead of a HBAR, perhaps a 14.5" M4 with an Izzy flash hider
I have owened this weapon and it worked well for range shooting.
I recommend that you scan the Tech Forum and read what Grant and others have to say about AR quality before deciding ,also remember that the Bush has a barrel twist of 1:9.
Well, guys, I have to recognize that I don`t know much about ARs , this will be my first. My FFL recommended Bushmaster to me and said that Colt and Bushmaster are two of the best brands , so I started with that. About the barrel , I always liked heavy barrels ... I think that there is more accuracy on those heavy barrels, but I cut be wrong ... please, iluminate me completely about this before I buy something that I may regret . Oh, I don`t plan on hunting , just plinking so heavy doesn`t count . I will apreciate some suggestions here,and, I didn`t know there were better ARs around...!!! thanks
Master_of_Sparks
09-20-08, 11:22
The stickies at the top of this forum is a pretty good start, and it won't take long to make you aware of some other options available.
Ok, I have been reading some treads , and , I cannot see anything wrong with the Bushmaster ... The barrel 1 to 9 twist , according to the treads , is the correct type for a 45 to 62 gr bullet , which is what I will be using for plinking , and the heavy barrel will improve accuracy . I will not be walking for hours with the thing hanging on , just on the trunk of my car and then to the Range , so the weight is no issue. Also, I don`t think I will be putting thousands of rds a week , so , basically , without having to sell the car to buy a good AR-15 , unless I am totally wrong , I was more or less right about it. I am planning on buying a good variable power scope, etc so the dollars keep walking out. Really, I fail to see any problems with this brand , so I will apreciate if you are explicit about what is wrong with these rifles, please . About the AK muzzle brake , the specs and the report of few owners that have installed is great : The movement of the barrel is almost cero when firing and you can fire again more quickly accuratelly , recoil improves , etc. And I even like the looks. I need to know detail reason why this weapon is a bad choice and what choices are there at around the same price (very important, price) Thanks again
Parabellum9x19mm
09-20-08, 12:09
RE: Top Raider....after re-reading this thread a few times, i realized that i totally misundestood the context of your post.
i'm retracting all of my dickhead remarks.
i apologize to you, the OP and everyone else who's participated in this thread, including the readers. sorry for the misunderstanding. all my fault.
W. My FFL recommended Bushmaster to me and said that Colt and Bushmaster are two of the best brands , so I started with that.
i would read rob_s thread (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=14446) about what he would do, if he was buying his first AR, knowing what he knows now.
i tend to agree with him too. for me, it Noveske and then everyone else...Colt, LMT, BCM, et al.
Colt, LMT BCM are all a very high standard of product closely following TDPs
but Noveske is just a cut above everything else. they're the only uppers i've bought lately
Parabellum9x19mm
09-20-08, 12:40
Ok, I have been reading some treads , and , I cannot see anything wrong with the Bushmaster ... The barrel 1 to 9 twist , according to the treads , is the correct type for a 45 to 62 gr bullet , which is what I will be using for plinking , and the heavy barrel will improve accuracy . I will not be walking for hours with the thing hanging on , just on the trunk of my car and then to the Range , so the weight is no issue. Also, I don`t think I will be putting thousands of rds a week , so , basically , without having to sell the car to buy a good AR-15 , unless I am totally wrong , I was more or less right about it. I am planning on buying a good variable power scope, etc so the dollars keep walking out. Really, I fail to see any problems with this brand , so I will apreciate if you are explicit about what is wrong with these rifles, please . About the AK muzzle brake , the specs and the report of few owners that have installed is great : The movement of the barrel is almost cero when firing and you can fire again more quickly accuratelly , recoil improves , etc. And I even like the looks. I need to know detail reason why this weapon is a bad choice and what choices are there at around the same price (very important, price) Thanks again
if you're happy with your pick, then that's great...i was just giving my opinion, but whatever you pick has to work with for you. nobody knows what your intentions for the rifle are better than you. i was just sort of interjecting my take. feel free to listen, or reject entirely :D
i like HBARs too...for range guns. but i'm not really into short HBARs. rather have a heavy 20" or 18". but if i have a 14.5" carbine, i don't see the point in having the extra weight.
and as far as the AK break. they are good on the range. the people to your right and left will hate you, because they are very loud. but the AK break is for competition and range shooting only. its loud, there's a lot of muzzle flash. if you fire it indoors without hearing protection it would be pretty painful. also you're just going to get tons of muzzle flash, which will have adverse effects on your vision in low light and is a big-time target indicator.
just depends on what you want do to with your rifle...that's why i asked what your plans were for the rifle in my first post
whatever you settle on enjoy and safe shooting :cool:
parabellum9x9mm : I am not sure if your reply was for me or for topraider , but if it was for me, I want to first , say Thanks for replying to this tread , and second, I can not defend anything because I haven`t bought anything yet, and I honestly think that a 20 inches rifle is too long. I don`t like the regular stock on the long rifles, so I went straight for the carbines ... This one that I was thinking on buying, have a17 inches barrel , so it is one inch larger than the regular carbine and , frankly, I thought I was making a good choice . I will read everything about everything first this weekend and check out all those other choices , having money in account too , so I will be more qualified to make a good choice . Thanks for your suggestions ...josey88
Parabellum9x19mm
09-20-08, 12:41
Time out, please. Look , I never been very good expressing myself in writing.
I quoted you just to reference that particular model. My comment was not directed at you at all. I'm not promoting any particular brand. I was communicating directly to josey88 and telling him to read what Grant and others have to say about AR quality.
I appologize for using any part of your post.
its cool, im sorry if i went off on you. i was just trying to help the OP with my initial post tho, i wasn't trying to take a crap all over his choices....or yours
I didn`t think on that part when I spoke about the AK brake ... maybe I should change it to an izzy muzzle ... About the barrel, with all these good and bad types of cartridges, I assumed that having a heavy barrel will give me an edge on accuracy and safety.
Hey,
I'm sort of new here too.
I've owned a Bushmaster for over a year and enjoy shooting it. After joining this forum back in the spring, I now know why people tent to prefer other rifles.
I now own a few other Ars....Colts & LMTs.
If your mind is made up, that's cool. Just remember to get the bolt carrier group tweaked a little after you buy it. Grant here on the forum did an excellent job with mine...and the rifle is more reliable because of it.
This forum is amazing. Stick around and soak it all up!:D
Parabellum9x19mm
09-20-08, 13:09
I didn`t think on that part when I spoke about the AK brake ... maybe I should change it to an izzy muzzle ... About the barrel, with all these good and bad types of cartridges, I assumed that having a heavy barrel will give me an edge on accuracy and safety.
what do you mean by "safety"?
the accuracy difference between a HBAR and slimmer profile would be purely theoretical in this instance. we're talking about a military type (although not milspec) chrome lined barrel. its not a stainless steel, hand lapped match barrel.
with this type of barrel, you aren't likely to notice an accuracy difference, regardless of profile. yeah, with an ultra-light pencil barrel, you might get some slight vertical "stringing" as the barrel heats up, but with a profile such as a government or standard M4, you wont be able to notice any accuracy difference compared to an HBAR.
i had the same line of thinking as you when i bought my 1st AR. i wanted a carbine, but i wanted that extra bit of accuracy. people on barfcom told me not to get a carbine HBAR. i didn't listen. i think i made the wrong choice for me. who's to say what's right for you tho.
i will say this: if you want the extra accuracy in a short weapon you'd be better off with a stainless barrel....but of course, you make certain trade offs when you do that, so i'm not necessarily advising that's what you should do.
if you're wild on 14.5" bbls this Sabre (http://www.talonarms.com/talonarms/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=127&products_id=225&zenid=fa444b74f22b099b51c9c4145ca38b9c) might be worth a look. government contour, so its slim under the handguards, unlike a HBAR. mid length gas system on a 14.5" certainly is something different.
good luck in your quest :D
Parabellum9x19mm
09-20-08, 13:17
double tap
I think I definitely need more knowledge on this , so I will stop the choice and the buying until I get more info. Thanks for making me see the right way to choose a good rifle . I will be checking on these other brands later on today an on.
Parabellum9x19mm
09-20-08, 13:37
rob_s has many threads which can help out the 1st time buyer.
the infamous chart (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642) is a good jumping off point.
happy hunting.
Rob_s puts a lot of effort into what he researches out. He shoots these and has a passion for this stuff. His chart took a lot of time to compile and he put a lot into it. The ones to the LEFT of the chart are the more quality, and to the right is lesser quality. 2 things to look for are the properly staked gas key, and the properly staked castle nut. Two things you don't want coming apart. There are others here to that work for a living and play on these and they really know their stuff. You will do well to listen to them. Robs chart was made for first time buyers as well as seasoned. Most of those prices are suggested retail and you can pick them up for a little less. I was at the far right of the chart and decided I wanted to go to the left for a better quality rifle so after some good research of my own, and finding NO ONE had any negative about a "Charles Daly Defense", I went with a M-4LE 1 in 7, and picked it up at my FFL for $947 to match what I could get it off the net for. So when you decide, LOOK around too.
Good luck, a lot of good info here, you just might have to do a lot of reading to find it, because there is a lot of good already posted here.;)
I know that it is still a little earlier to start making choices to final buying , I am for sure dumping the Bushmaster in favor of the Charles Daly DM4LE and the DM4LX , which I like even more , except for the price ; the DM4LE is OK in price , almost like a Bushmaster , but the other is $1400 bucks ...If I can find it for less , I think that I will take it, what do you gurus, think ?
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19307
Gosh, I hate it when I am ignorant ...!!! In any case, I am making progress because I went from Bushmaster to Charles Daly , so I am doing great !!! No definite choices yet , but I like what I am seeing and for just about the same price , which is good comparations and according to " the chart " I moved from the 10th to the 4th place ... So far I can be happy with the CD models . I will keep reading , but I think that for what I want to use the rifle , it will be more than adecuate. Thanks for the guidance , I really needed it.
I know that it is still a little earlier to start making choices to final buying , I am for sure dumping the Bushmaster in favor of the Charles Daly DM4LE and the DM4LX , which I like even more , except for the price ; the DM4LE is OK in price , almost like a Bushmaster , but the other is $1400 bucks ...If I can find it for less , I think that I will take it, what do you gurus, think ?
Under another thread I posted "My Charles Daly M-4LE arrived today" Grant at G and R Tactical said he will be offering it very soon for I think low $900 range. Give him a call and tell him your situation and what you are looking for ect and he will be a big help.
We will be offering special pricing to M4C members that will run in the low $900 range (FYI).
C4
__________________
www.GRTactical.com
Sales@GRTactical.com
330-343-2800
good luck.
Gramps I will do that , Thanks. I have a question about the M4LE and I am confused about the detachable upper handle ... does it come with it ? the CD site says so but the others don`t mention it. If it come with it , I think that I can live with that gun , because I can use it either with the regular sights or take it off and use the scope. Did yours come with it , and how do you solve the problem of the front sight when you are using the scope ? My ignorance is sublime on this thing, I apologize for it...!!!
BushmasterFanBoy
09-20-08, 19:21
josey88;
You're not allowed to like Bushmaster on this forum and there are some pretty darn good reasons as to why.
Don't buy from them.
Charles Daily went ahead and made what I like to call, "M4 Carbines Gun". In other words, they looked at the market and saw that customers wanted a solid, well built weapon and were all to willing to purchase a weapon with features that help with reliability and overall ruggedness. They took Rob_S's chart and tailored their weapon as needed.
End result? A rock solid carbine that you can be proud to own and won't get you snide comments thrown your way on this forum, or in a class. Nor will your carrier key come flying off :p.
I have learned my lessons the hard way , and when I can get advice from the experts I usually follow true. So, forget Bushmaster... I like this Charles Daly a lot and it is affordable so all I have to do now is keep reading and learning ... Thanks so much to all for saving me of a regretable buy , to say the least... josey88:D
josey88,
I can only tell you about my CCD carbine. My FFL had a BUIS that they had ordered for some one else and it would not lay down enough for him, so they gave me a good deal on it. I wanted it instead for when I put something like a Aimpoint on to cowittnes with my irons. It did not come with the carry handle. Michael Kassnar who is as it says’s on the CD forum, the "Head Honcho" for Charles Daly, is on this forum also and believe me I have read between these two forums where he always answers questions/suggestions about his products. He appears to have some of the finest cust serv too. He mentioned on this forum about the carry handle. http://see here (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=17325) (Forums/Manufacturers/Charles Daly)
According to CDD when I e-mailed them about two weeks ago, they had NOT started shipping them with CH yet. Don't be afraid to ask him any question. That’s why he is here, to listen to those who purchase his products. I am not the best one for black rifle questions; I'm only on my second and can only tell you what inspired me to buy what I did. I am more of a Putzer/Plinker with a touch of BRD (Black Rifle Disease). What you want depends on what you want to do with your gun. This will help others to answer your questions with better advice.
As for the scope and front sight thing, I am just using iron sights (Rear BUIS/Back Up Iron Sight) and not a reg scope, so some else who has a lot of experience there can answer that for you.
During the AWB, I bought a Bushy Shorty AK.
Strong points...
-Very little recoil.
-VERY strong barrel.
-1 MOA accurate (and better) with 60-64 grain ammo.
-100% reliable.
Bad points...
-Very heavy for it's size.
-VERY loud!!!
-Velocity handicap of the 14.5 inch barrel (in theory, limited fragmentation range for hunting larger game).
-Fixed carry handle, welded muzzle brake, and 1x9 twist are features that I learned not to like.
Sold it to a collector... he raves over it's accuracy.
My Bushy AK was a very stout, reliable, and accurate carbine, but it was just too heavy and loud for me to keep around.
With so many choices now available, I'd look elsewhere.
Gramps : No problem with the front sight... I just learned that you place the dot on the front sight , so that is solved. I plan on putting a scope, maybe a Trijicon TR-21 on the AR, but I also want the regular sights, so , If need be , I will wait until they start shipping the guns with it. That is for the DM4LE , but I also like the DMLX ...the only problem that I see is the price, around $400.00 more ... that and the fact that it is 1 to 9 twist instead of 1 to 7 . Is the twist so important ? is 1 to 7 better ? I will be shooting 55 to 62 gr bullets ... Any way , please give me your opinion on the twist theme. I read the article on it and it seems to me that if I shoot regular loads , it is ok . But, once more , if you guys think that it is better to have it on the gun instead of the 1 to 9 , I will get the DM4LE , that , I too like it a lot , and it is cheaper, any way. It is odd that a gun that costs almost $400.00 more will have the inferior twist on the barrel ...Oh, I gorgot to mention that the barrel is a 16" heavy barrel , fluted... can that be the why does it comes with the 1 to 9 twist ? Well, please give me your thoughts on this ...Thanks josey88
Charles Daly
09-21-08, 14:30
josey88, thanks for your interest in CD carbines.
The difference in the price between the D-M4LE and the D-M4LX is due to several things, including the quad rail forearm, ACE SOCOM buttstock, Ergo grip, front and rear folding BUIS, fluted HBAR and Phantom suppressor.
The 4140 1X9 fluted HBAR barrel on the LX about the same price as the MIL-B-11595E, CrMoV Grade 1X7 barrel on the LE. (The Government profile 4140 barrel on our D-M4 is less money than the barrel on the LE, but not the fluted HBAR on the LX; they are about the same.) All our barrels are chrome lined so there is no difference in that regard.
All those accessories on the LX are expensive. The ACE stock alone is around $270 I think.
And if all you ever plan to shoot is 55-62gr, the 1X9 will suit you just fine.
I hope I've been of some help and haven't confused you more.
Sincerely,
Hello, Michael :" First, Thanks for taking interest in this research and helping me . It is very kind of you to explain the reason why the DM4LX is more expensive ... I know, and that is why I like it ... it is a beautiful rifle , well done , with all the upgrades already on it , so there is nothing to upgrade, just shoot it. I think that if I can get a decent price shopping around I will get it. I would have like the 1 to 7 twist , but, as you said, it has the heavy barrel, fluted , and besides , I am only to shoot 55 to 62 gr bullets, the regular type, (I am not reloading , at least not yet) so I guest it will be fine. I plan on putting a Trijicon TR-21 on top . In the end , it is one or the other for sure : the DM4LE or the DM4LX . So, I will post which one I got when it gets to my hands, with mi impressions. Thanks again for your help...josey88
During the AWB, I bought a Bushy Shorty AK.
Strong points...
-Very little recoil.
-VERY strong barrel.
-1 MOA accurate (and better) with 60-64 grain ammo.
-100% reliable.
Bad points...
-Very heavy for it's size.
-VERY loud!!!
-Velocity handicap of the 14.5 inch barrel (in theory, limited fragmentation range for hunting larger game).
-Fixed carry handle, welded muzzle brake, and 1x9 twist are features that I learned not to like.
Sold it to a collector... he raves over it's accuracy.
My Bushy AK was a very stout, reliable, and accurate carbine, but it was just too heavy and loud for me to keep around.
With so many choices now available, I'd look elsewhere. Same situation here as Pilgrim.I bought a 14 1/2" Budhy AK,also during the ban.VERY loud. Being the H BAR it was also heavier than necessary.Good shooting carbine and also very reliable and I ran it for a lot of years,primarily with 68=69gr. OTM. I finally sold it to a local cop and now have two M4 profile carbines which I like better. The Bushy was a good gun even though it was lacking in many of the desirable features. All in all I'm satisfied now.If I were to buy another it would most likely be the Charles Daly.
Charles Daly
09-21-08, 23:35
.... In the end , it is one or the other for sure : the DM4LE or the DM4LX . ...
josey, there was another one of our consumers faced with the same dilemma as you. He was either here on M4C or TOS. I thought his solution was perfect. He bought one of each! :D
Same situation here as Pilgrim.I bought a 14 1/2" Budhy AK,also during the ban.VERY loud. Being the H BAR it was also heavier than necessary.Good shooting carbine and also very reliable and I ran it for a lot of years,primarily with 68=69gr. OTM. I finally sold it to a local cop and now have two M4 profile carbines which I like better. The Bushy was a good gun even though it was lacking in many of the desirable features. All in all I'm satisfied now.If I were to buy another it would most likely be the Charles Daly.
Same here, I also have a couple M4 profile uppers now that are more to my liking than the Shorty AK.
One thing I forget to mention, I used a 'Colt type' handle mount scope on the rifle, and while it worked OK, when it started to get dark, the muzzle flash that is directed upwards, would temporarily obscure the target!
You take a shot... and BOOM the sight picture disappears into a sea of orange flame for a moment... then the sight picture comes back.
We seem to be making an issue of the sound signature produced by the AK-74 style muzzle brake this Bushy comes with... we ain't making this up...it is killer loud with plenty of blast. It's not as bad as a Barret, but it's bad.
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