View Full Version : Setback During Loading?
So far, I have only been reloading .223 with bullets that have a cannelure and crimping the case mouth down into it so the bullet won't set back during the relatively violent loading cycle of an AR. However, my son has offered to take me on a hog hunting trip and I've been looking at heavier bullets like Speer's soft-point 70 grain bullets, but none of the bullets intended for hunting have cannelures, so I'm wondering if any of you have any experience with these type of bullets and has setback been an issue?
With proper neck tension, there shouldn't be any issues with setback.
I've used the Lee crimp die for bullets like these. I set it for a much lighter crimp than if the bullet had a cannelure. Just a light squeeze.
Where is markm? He's reloaded many, many 1000s of .223 and can offer advice.
I agree that neck tension without crimping should suffice but will point out that die dimensions are factors. For example an expander ball that is a tad too big in diameter might expand the neck too much with the result that enough tension is not achieved. My advice would be use brass from the same batch if possible and then test fire some and check for set back in those chambered.
With proper neck tension, there shouldn't be any issues with setback.
This... exactly. It all depends on your process, as there are hundreds of ways to take brass and turn it into a completed .223 round. What I do by the thousands of non canalured bullets is use the LEE Factory Crimp die. I set it up so that you can just barely see the neck crimped with the naked eye. This seems to give me fairly consistent neck tension with 77 gr Sierra Match Kings.
To me this is the easiest way. However guys are also able to accomplish this with annealing the necks and getting good, consistent tension with NO crimp. In my process, the lack of crimp hurts accuracy. The loads I'm referring to are shot regularly in the AR platform.
I have the Lee Factory Crimp die that I use to crimp into the cannelure in my plinkers and I already do exactly as you describe with my .303's with no cannelure - I just wasn't sure if it would be enough with the AR as it has a steeper feeding angle and is rammed home with greater velocity.
Thanks to all of you! :D
I don't load much 223, but do load quite a bit of Grendel for the AR. More recoil than 223 for sure, and many run heavier springs, etc. Even with 120+123g bullets with no cannelure I've not had setback.
It's just a matter of getting your neck tension set correctly.
Most good die mfgs will sell you slightly smaller expander balls and it's a 30 second swap which usually takes care of the issue unless your die body neck is too big. If needed you can go to button type neck sizing, which some do to optimize. (But pricey)
This is also where case neck thickness comes into play. I don't turn my necks, but do stick with one case mfg for important ammo and optimize my neck tension for that.
You can also polish expander balls with drill press and super fine sandpaper. (Really, really fine, and a light touch, then measure, repeat as needed)
gunnerblue
02-12-17, 09:12
For hunting and precision-type loads, I use brass with consistent neck thickness and sizing dies with interchangeable neck bushings to control neck tension. I do not crimp. For an AR rifle, I typically size with a bushing that is 0.003" less than the outside diameter at the neck of a loaded round (bullet diameter plus neck thickness x 2).
For hunting and precision-type loads, I use brass with consistent neck thickness and sizing dies with interchangeable neck bushings to control neck tension. I do not crimp. For an AR rifle, I typically size with a bushing that is 0.003" less than the outside diameter at the neck of a loaded round (bullet diameter plus neck thickness x 2).
This is what many Grendel shooters do for accuracy. With outside neck turning as needed against a pilot.
I've not found it to be needed if you don't overwork the brass.
Just remember, neck bushing sets the minimum size (ID), expander balls the maximum size. At least if used in a single sizing step.
A good die mfg will get this right, and normally you only have to tune it if your brass has thin necks or you are using a tighter chamber neck, etc. (Non-std)
I will simply NEVER use any bushing dies or expander balls in dies ever again for any rifle ammo. Part of my neck tension consistency formula is using a neck expanding die (which sized the neck on the down stroke instead of ripping a ball through on the upstroke) instead of an expander ball.
The dreaded donut from bushing dies is a hard lesson I will never forget.... that and the neck run out too. I've read where guys are able to get low run out. But I tried floating the bushing and locking it in place... neither was acceptable for me.
Most rifle die expanders are .001 smaller than bullet diameter, all you need to do is polish the expander down to .002 to .003 smaller than bullet diameter and a crimp is never needed.
As stated above a crimp is not needed as long as you have enough bullet grip or neck tension.
Some people remove the expander from their die and expand the neck in a separate operation with a expander die.
Below a Lyman type (M) expander in .223, as you can see the expander is .003 smaller in diameter than a bullet diameter.
The .226 section of the expander is used to just bump the case mouth for a very slight flare to aid seating and help seat the bullet straight and reduce runout.
So again with the proper size expander a crimp is not needed.
http://i.imgur.com/ohIUcpd.png
I also have a Sinclair expander die and the expanders are .001 and .002 smaller than bullet diameter.
http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/sinclairexpander350.jpg
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