View Full Version : Russian, eastern euro, commie ammo
johnnyrebel87
02-12-17, 20:03
Hi guys, quick question.
Is there any good reason not to shoot steel case wolf, tula, monarch, etc in your pistols? I used to shoot a lot through glocks, but have only been shooting brass cased stuff for 5 to 10 years now. Thinking about maybe shooting steel case in the glocks and ppq so that I can shoot more. I dont reload anymore, so just looking to shoot more. I now go every other weekend and shoot 2 to 300 through pistols.
Another question, if I get a kaboom, are there any companies that will help you out, and any that wont help you? Thanks.
johnnyrebel87
02-12-17, 20:05
Fwiw, I already shoot steel case in ARs.
Short answer is generally unless you reload steel case can help you shoot more. Now, depending on the going rate of once fired brass in your AO it might come down to being effectively a wash between steel or brass. I used to shoot more or less only brass even though I didn't reload because I would pick up my brass, and if I hit the range and was the only one there I'd also happily sweep up the casings on the range to sort and sell. It was actually getting to the point some days after I sold the brass that was left laying on the range I was ahead $30-40 bucks, including cost of gas and lunch. So I'd check the local sites to see what brass is selling for and if it is moving briskly.
As far as pistols, I'll run Wolf without too much complaint if I can't pick up my brass, or if the area isn't conductive to it. I don't shoot Tula much, mostly because I find it to be pretty much junk ammo, though I'll shoot it before some reman ammo. No experience with Monarch to speak of.
No reason not to, but no good reason to.
The steel stuff is only a buck or two cheaper per box than brass case, so it doesn't seem worth it.
No reason not to, but no good reason to.
The steel stuff is only a buck or two cheaper per box than brass case, so it doesn't seem worth it.
Unless you're talking wolf Grendel.
I shoot a lot of Freedom Munitions American Steel 9mm. It's a little cheaper than brass, and I don't have to feel bad about not picking up brass cases. Steel returns to the Earth, from whence it came.
Grand58742
02-13-17, 07:34
No reason not to, but no good reason to.
The steel stuff is only a buck or two cheaper per box than brass case, so it doesn't seem worth it.
Yet, $40-50 cheaper per case. It adds up in the long run if you are shooting or buying in volume on a budget.
The only steel stuff I haven't been impressed with was Tula. But my Sigs ate up the Brown/Silver Bear without problems.
johnnyrebel87
02-13-17, 08:14
Any experiences on blown up guns and getting them fixed?
And I wont be shooting any reman ammo.
El Pistolero
02-13-17, 08:21
I consider the bi-metal steel jackets more harmful than the steel casings. They did a test on Lucky Gunner where the bi-metal jacket ammo wore out barrels sooner than regular copper plated ammo. But I still shoot it in .223 through a beater AR. Their 9mm I don't bother with anymore because you can get brass-cased Perfecta for less money now.
Been shooting it for years. Never had much of a problem.
Blowing up guns is an over exaggerated internet myth. Typically it's the same thing that gets reposted over and over. Getting the gun fixed would depend on the circumstances and the manufacturer
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I would not say having a gun kaboom with steel case is any more likely than any other ammo, and if it does occur is extremely rare with any sort of factory ammo and there are usually other factors involved. If you want to shoot steel by all means. I have been running federal aluminum case most recently ( under 10 bucks a box at wal mart) so I just buy 200 rounds a week ( 40 bucks worth ) and am usually shooting a uspsa match with it a few weekends a month. Buying this amount at a time while not technically cheaper than buying steel in bulk, can be a little easier by spreading the costs out a little instead of dropping say 2-300 dollars at once
Knightsofnee
02-13-17, 16:31
Tula sent a buddy of mine a check to cover the cost of a couple of magazines and some extra after their .308 ammo blew the magazine out and the extractor off of a T/C bolt action. They also gave him a coupon code for more Tula ammo.
Walther's and HK's with stepped chambers supposedly have problems extracting steel cased ammo. But, I have heard of guys running thousands of rounds of steel with no problems in a P 99 for example i've shot a couple hundred rounds of American steel in my P 99's without an issue . But American steel is the sparkler of 9 mm ammunition. However, I did get a federal aluminum 9 mm case stuck in one of my P 99's, and I also had a Blazer brass with no charge. I blame quality control and not the type of ammunition.
Walther's and HK's with stepped chambers supposedly have problems extracting steel cased ammo. But, I have heard of guys running thousands of rounds of steel with no problems in a P 99 for example i've shot a couple hundred rounds of American steel in my P 99's without an issue . But American steel is the sparkler of 9 mm ammunition. However, I did get a federal aluminum 9 mm case stuck in one of my P 99's, and I also had a Blazer brass with no charge. I blame quality control and not the type of ammunition.
Don't know if this is related or not but a few weeks ago I was running my USP 9 using Brown Bear. Out of 500 rounds I had one case fail to extract. Don't know if it was a fluke or the chamber. Happened half way through the 500
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I had a newish Glock 23 stop extracting spent cases about half way through a case of Wolf ammo. Turned out that the tip of the extractor that goes into the extractor groove on the case chipped off. A data point of one, but maybe more than coincidence.
wildcard600
02-13-17, 20:57
I run steel case (for training) exclusively through all guns that I can get it for. Steel cased pistol ammo is almost always nearly the same price so it does make less difference in that application.
I've seen it demonstrated numerous time on youtube and via internet postings that the soft steel cases are nearly identical to brass in terms of brinell hardness (sometimes actually softer) so concerns about "extra wear" from the cases is gunshop tomfoolery. The cheap bullets will wear out your barrel faster, but the amount of money saved will should easily the cost of a new barrels and probably a new gun as it takes tens of thousands of rounds to do so.
Grand58742
02-14-17, 06:40
I would almost say you are more likely to get a kaboom out of brass reloads from Bubba's Live Bait and Basement Reloading Shop than most factory steel case. There are several reputable companies that reload that are trustworthy, but the ones you have to look out for are the ones with the hand painted signs and can't miss deals at the gun shows or on Armslist.
Most of the folks on here know this, but just a Public Service Announcement for those that might just be getting into shooting and haven't learned not everyone does it right.
For AK,SKS, Maks, TTs, etc. the steel cased is it. I mean, if they dont work in those platforms then theres a big problem. Very recently, for a majority of handguns I've had, after break in with brass cased ammo, I've used steel cased with nary an issue. In terms of bbl wearing out, unless its a match grade gun, I'll buy another bbl or sell the whole gun at that point. At that point said handgun would require alot rounds down the bbl to cause a drop off in accuracy , reliability etc and other things more serious might be going bad on it that would necessitate a rebuild or it has reached end of service life. I won't ever use reman ammo except from Blackhills. There QC/QA is outstanding, all others I have doubts. Life is too short to worry about a kaboom due to some "minor" error by the backroom reloader.
Aside from proving out my carry ammo, my p320 has only ever seen wolf. Runs like a sewing machine with it. Might see a little more wear eventually but probably negligible in the grand scheme.
Nate
NAAH Tool Works
Naahtoolworks@gmail.com
I dont just because I'd rather pay the extra money for regular bullets.
Before I started reloading, I shot a lot of Wolf and Tula through every firearm I owned. Never had an issue with any of it. I have actually had more issues from some brands of brass cased ammo. Remington UMC, Armscor, that Turkish made ZQI crap, and Agulia has been very hit or miss for me, to the point where I don't even consider it anymore, and reach for Federal AE, PMC, PPU, Sellior & Belliot, Walmart branded Perfecta, or Winchester white box offerings for brass cased plinking grade stuff.
Steel is still a viable option for me because reloading plinking ammo in some calibers (.223 + 9mm) is right on that bubble of a cost/worth the time involved to do it type deal. I do tend to shoot more of my brass cased reloads now, because in the winter I have more free time to crank out plinking ammo, but I still use steel from time to when I go to places that brass recovery is iffy, like shooting outside in the snow, or doing some fun "run and gun" type stuff with my buddies and we don't want to spend half the day looking for all our brass.
I don't handle shooting steel any different than shooting brass, about the only thing I do differently is sometimes I might go 2-3 shooting sessions between cleanings when using brass only. If steel was used I will clean after that trip, especially the chamber of what ever guns it was used in, just to avoid any potential problems like a stuck case from the extra fouling steel case is known to leave in the chamber due to it not making a good of a seal as brass.
Is there any good reason not to shoot steel case wolf, tula, monarch, etc in your pistols?
Now, depending on the going rate of once fired brass in your AO it might come down to being effectively a wash between steel or brass...
Agreed... Steel cases are only cheaper if you're too lazy to pick up your brass and sell it.
... avoid any potential problems like a stuck case from the extra fouling steel case is known to leave in the chamber due to it not making a good of a seal as brass.
And this.
It depends on what you're wanting to do and what your accuracy, cleanliness, recoil impulse, and bullet type requirements are. If you don't care, steel it is.
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