View Full Version : BCG Choice
So I put together another rifle recently using a Spikes Stripped lower, PSA LPK and BCM buffer, buffer tube and spring.
I need a BCG. Is it beneficial to spend $185 on a BCM/DD bolt over a $99 PSA FA bolt?
So I put together another rifle recently using a Spikes Stripped lower, PSA LPK and BCM buffer, buffer tube and spring.
I need a BCG. Is it beneficial to spend $185 on a BCM/DD bolt over a $99 PSA FA bolt?
Most on here would say yes for reasons easily found on the forums. I have both, but I only got the PSA ones when BCM ones were hard to find during recent times of shortage.
wildcard600
02-14-17, 12:34
I would say yes. I believe the bolt carrier group is much to critical of a component to risk using something substandard.
WickedWillis
02-14-17, 12:34
Yes. Buy the BCM/DD bolt and BCG.
I don't think it would ever be a waste to buy known quality, but maybe money is tight for you and you are only putting together a hobby gun? If I bought a good barrel, I would want a good BCG. YMMV.
Well, probably the most stressed component in the rifle, so yeah I would not hesitate to purchase a known good brand vs rolling the dice. Buy quality once.
You'll see this opinion echoed here numerous times by SMEs far more knowledgeable than I happen to be. There are areas on a rifle where saving money is possible and even advisable if it's a rarely used "hobby gun." The BCG is not a place to cut corners.
RobertTheTexan
02-14-17, 13:28
My knowledgeable friend who taught me much of what I know about building a battle ready AR, taught me there are some select parts where you do not want skimp and try to save a buck. The Bolt Carrier Group is one of those parts. I think DD and BCM make good BCG's although I only have a DD in an AR with a DD barrel. But they are both well known for quality, whether they manufacture the part or not.
My go-to BCG is LMT L7D3.
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Centurion Arms bcg is $125 on their site and slightly cheaper at MidwestPX for $119.
You can't go wrong with a full auto BCG from Colt, BCM, or LMT. If you can stretch your budget a bit, get a NP3 BCG from Sionics or SOLGW.
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The SIONICS BCG would be an excellent choice.
There are many great choices, however if your using it in a SD rifle, BCM is about as close to a sure thing as your going to get. They just work.
Toolcraft
http://www.crypticcoatings.com/coated-bolt-carrier-group/
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?184847-Toolcraft-Bolt
I'd second the Toolcraft as a very solid, but less expensive option. Also, if you're paying $99 for a PSA premium BCG, you're doing something wrong. It seems like every other day I get a sale email from PSA with Premium BCGs going for $69-$79. Up until recently I hadn't owned a PSA BCG, but there was a crazy bundle deal I just couldn't pass up. Premium BCG and Magpul D-60 for $125. The BCG I received was finished nicely, but had a defective extractor spring. Basically, it was too small and wouldn't snap into the extractor. It functioned fine when manually cycling rounds, but I wasn't exactly pleased. Called them about the issue, really only wanting them to send me a replacement extractor assembly or spring kit. They declined, and instead insisted they send me a brand new replacement of the entire BCG. Being that it was going in my spare parts bin anyway, I didn't have an urgent need to have it right now, so I gladly sent it back. Took about 5 days or so for the replacement to get to me. Fit and finish was just as good as the first, and the new BCG's extractor & spring is perfectly normal.
I've heard others complain about slow service from PSA, but in my experience they took care of me quickly, and really went above and beyond. At the price, I wouldn't have any concerns with purchasing another. Any BCG, from any company, can have issues. There was a thread the other day with a new BCM BCG malfunctioning, and someone (MistWolf maybe?) mentioned that he'd seen a handful of recent reports claiming similar issues. Apparently for each, swapping in a new extractor spring fixed the problem. On another board there was a guy with a new Colt BCG that was having extraction issues as well. Turns out the actual extractor was milled incorrectly, and they ended up taking care of him. Before everyone goes crazy, none of this is being brought up to start a "just as good as" or to knock any of the aforementioned brands. Just to remind the OP that whatever he decides, don't assume it's GTG, until you verify it's GTG.
On a somewhat related note, has anyone else noticed a slight uptick in BCG issue threads? I've seen quite a few recently from a bunch of different brands. One the other day, I think it was Aim Surplus BCGs, was particularly odd. Guy had bought two standard BCGs, and both were having issues. Different rifles and everything. He did some testing and singled out the Carrier as the source of the problem for both. Bad luck, or something else going on in the market?
I've heard good things about the PSA. Someone told me they are made by toolcraft. Not knowing is not worth it IMHO. I personally would prefer Colt or BCM for the BCG.
Sidneyious
02-14-17, 18:25
@Kdubya
I'm guessing it's because before the election every company was just mass producing as much as they can to get product out and now we are seeing the slight defects from the massive production run.
The out of spec here and there was probably from the end of the machine tools service life but many companies don't check the run out on the items from the end run.
Just a guess.
I've heard good things about the PSA. Someone told me they are made by toolcraft. Not knowing is not worth it IMHO. I personally would prefer Colt or BCM for the BCG.
The Cryptic Coating ones are made by Toolcraft with all the whole list checked off.
Yeah, I saw the PSA's on their website going for $99. The rifle will not be used for SD or really any hard use. I just like to have the best I can justify having. Do I NEED a BCM BCG? Probably not, but if price wasn't an issue I know I would go that route, just for name brand sake. Thanks for the input, its a struggle I have to deal with.
Black Nitride Toolcraft @ 79.99 right here: http://www.monmouthreloading.com/shop/toolcraft-bcg/
Says it is 8620 and C158.
There's some Colts on gun broker for $150.
@Kdubya
I'm guessing it's because before the election every company was just mass producing as much as they can to get product out and now we are seeing the slight defects from the massive production run.
The out of spec here and there was probably from the end of the machine tools service life but many companies don't check the run out on the items from the end run.
Just a guess.
That would be one of the more plausible explanations. And it's no secret that the gun industry is sitting on a healthy pile of back-stock. Still, it's only a curious observation at this point. I'm hoping it's just my perception.
Black Nitride Toolcraft @ 79.99 right here: http://www.monmouthreloading.com/shop/toolcraft-bcg/
Says it is 8620 and C158.
I may have missed it, but those don't appear to be HPT........which may be preferable depending on one's thoughts on that point.
When I was looking last year, Cryptic Coating was the only place I found advertising Toolcraft (by name at least) groups with full mil spec materials and testing.
556BlackRifle
02-14-17, 21:36
Sionics is my new favorite BCG. You really should check them out. If you don't want NP3, then BCM, Colt LMT are all GTG.
There's a bcm bcg on the EE right now for $136. I'd pick that up. I will say that my sionics np3 bcg is my favorite but my 5 bcm's have been flawless.
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RobertTheTexan
02-14-17, 22:44
There's some Colts on gun broker for $150.
There are some Colts right here in the E&E for $150. Mo need to go give your money to gunbroker. :)
I can't believe I forgot to mention that in my previous post...especially since I
bought one. BoomDoc is selling them. Solid guy, great to do business with. Check maybe he has more.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?190211-Colt-AR15-Bolt-Carrier-Groups-Factory-New-(-150)!!
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My knowledgeable friend who taught me much of what I know about building a battle ready AR, taught me there are some select parts where you do not want skimp and try to save a buck. The Bolt Carrier Group is one of those parts. I think DD and BCM make good BCG's although I only have a DD in an AR with a DD barrel. But they are both well known for quality, whether they manufacture the part or not.
My go-to BCG is LMT L7D3.
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Who makes BCM's BCG? Assume DD is "in house"
There are some Colts right here in the E&E for $150. Mo need to go give your money to gunbroker. :)
I can't believe I forgot to mention that in my previous post...especially since I one. BoomDoc is selling them. Solid guy, great to do business with. Check maybe he has more.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?190211-Colt-AR15-Bolt-Carrier-Groups-Factory-New-(-150)!!
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Nice!
I may have missed it, but those don't appear to be HPT........which may be preferable depending on one's thoughts on that point.
When I was looking last year, Cryptic Coating was the only place I found advertising Toolcraft (by name at least) groups with full mil spec materials and testing.
I picked up one of those 79.99 Toolcraft bolts after seeing a bunch of good things around here for them.
Runs in my pistol build like a top. Was visibly defect free, and was nice and tight for the gas rings. Definitely a solid company.
ETA:
I should include that the gas key screws appear MOACKEd, if not MOACK Like. Nice solid stake job.
I picked up one of those 79.99 Toolcraft bolts after seeing a bunch of good things around here for them.
Runs in my pistol build like a top. Was visibly defect free, and was nice and tight for the gas rings. Definitely a solid company.
ETA:
I should include that the gas key screws appear MOACKEd, if not MOACK Like. Nice solid stake job.
Is the Toolcraft nitride BCG chrome lined on the inside of the carrier (the part the bolt gas rings ride in)?
ExplorinInTheWoods
02-15-17, 17:39
I've had really good luck with my spike's NiB bcg, I know they're just re branded fail zero bcgs
Is the Toolcraft nitride BCG chrome lined on the inside of the carrier (the part the bolt gas rings ride in)?
No, if I recall correctly it is not. I will doubke check next cleaning, but pretty sure its nitrided only.
Is the Toolcraft nitride BCG chrome lined on the inside of the carrier (the part the bolt gas rings ride in)?
According to their description, yes:
Carrier Specifications
Material: 8620 Steel
Type: M16 Full Auto (Preferred for most AR-15 builds)
Gas Key Material: 4130 Steel; Grade 8 Gas Key Screws
Other: Chrome lined gas key and carrier
Coating: Black Nitride | Nickel Boron
RobertTheTexan
02-16-17, 00:22
Who makes BCM's BCG? Assume DD is "in house"
Rocket, I believe DD is made in house. I could have worded that better. As far as BCM, to my knowledge they do not. I also would guess that even when I was holding a pretty high security clearance, it's wasn't high enough to be read-on into that piece of intel. Whoever it is makes a good BCG, as I have heard from many, that their BCG's are good quality. But I like LMT and I will likely always run their BCG's. First AR I built, I was at the range for the first time shooting it. Like a total toolhead I managed to get two rounds jammed up in the upper. It wouldn't go into battery and it wouldn't allow me to extract. I couldn't separate the lower from the upper. I was up the proverbial creek without a paddle. (God I hate pullin out this dirty laundry..lol) I cannot describe the raping and pillaging I applied to that BCG to get it to move so I could get those jammed up, bent rounds out of my upper, but I beat the living hell out of it. I thought for sure it would be jacked. Pulled it out. Inspected it. Wiped all the gunpowder bb's off. Disassembled it, checked my bolt's action. It was fine. Inspected it closely. Not one freaking scratch. Nada, nottathing. I decided then, that I would put LMT's in my AR's. The only variation to that was when I could not buy an LMT ANYWHERE. So aside from when I cannot buy LMT's and when I run into a great deal like the Colt for $150, I'm LMT all the way. Now I've picked up an enhanced carrier to use with my L7D3 bolt. It's an excellent BCG. I'm testing my first setup like that in my 11.5. So far so good.
Who makes BCM's BCG? Assume DD is "in house"
Iirc Microbest makes BCM's bcgs.
TactiCool1976
02-16-17, 00:52
i've been using a Fail Zero nickel boron since day 1 of having my AR15 and love it.. it just works.. i do have a back up Spikes Tactical bcg ( standard phosphate ) that i got from Primary Arms when it was on sale.. and then i have the OG bcg that came with the AR15 as the back up's back up lol...
I did use the Spikes bcg when i first got it and it works LOL cant say it's better or worse than the Fail Zero, since i only used it for 90 rounds.. but it's nice knowing that i have a good back up bcg just incase something happens..
RobertTheTexan
02-16-17, 01:24
Iirc Microbest makes BCM's bcgs.
Thank you VIP3R
And looks like they make A LOT more than BCG's.
Does Microbest also makes Sionics BCG? If Sionics BCG is as good as BCM's I'd definitely pick one up.
RobertTheTexan
02-16-17, 10:07
Does Microbest also makes Sionics BCG? If Sionics BCG is as good as BCM's I'd definitely pick one up.
From what I understand Sionics makes a quality product be it barrel or BCG. So that's a good choice, but if Boomdoc still has brand new Colt BCG's for $150, that seems like wise choice. Save a few bucks and you're getting an excellent quality BCG.
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Defaultmp3
02-16-17, 10:34
Does Microbest also makes Sionics BCG? If Sionics BCG is as good as BCM's I'd definitely pick one up.Same manufacturer does not mean same quality. Different companies have different levels of QA/QC packages that they request from the manufacturer. This is why the PSA CHF barrels are not the same quality as a Noveske or Centurion Arms, despite being from the same manufacturer (FN), with the same spec sheet.
This is not saying that Sionics BCGs are inferior to BCM BCGs or vice versa, just that judging by the OEM alone is not enough to equate quality between different brands.
Does Microbest also makes Sionics BCG? If Sionics BCG is as good as BCM's I'd definitely pick one up.
I have no idea who makes them. But, I have both and like both. I really like the NP3 bolt which cleans up slick as anything. They are both reliable, along with DD bolts.
BCM
COLT
Daniel Defense
Sionics
LMT
You get what you pay for and its the heart of the rifle.
Same manufacturer does not mean same quality. Different companies have different levels of QA/QC packages that they request from the manufacturer. This is why the PSA CHF barrels are not the same quality as a Noveske or Centurion Arms, despite being from the same manufacturer (FN), with the same spec sheet.
This is not saying that Sionics BCGs are inferior to BCM BCGs or vice versa, just that judging by the OEM alone is not enough to equate quality between different brands.
Thank you. I don't know why this is so prevelant, and it's not just the gun industry.
Op, the bolt is one of the most critical parts. I suggest you don't skimp. I would buy a know good mil-spec or better brand.
Lmt, colt, bcm, scionics, solgw, dd, centurion... sure I'm missing some. These companies have a track record of few defects getting out. Thats what you want.
vicious_cb
02-17-17, 22:25
Im curious if robar is still doing the NP3 for sionics.
elephantrider
02-17-17, 22:32
It has been mentioned before, but I will reiterate. You may want to consider a BCG where the bolt is not High Pressure Tested (HPT). The HPT is part of the TDP, so your 'mil-spec' brands will have it, Colt, BCM, etc. It's believed that skipping the HPT will add, or at least not reduce, bolt life. The Centurion C4, DD, and Toolcraft don't have the HPT. Neither list is nearly complete, but just to give an idea.
ROBAR NP3 uses a proprietary process as I recall, and I am pretty sure no one else does the application.
Im curious if robar is still doing the NP3 for sionics.
Anybody have any experience with PSA BCG?
For around ~$160-185, you can also consider Young Mfg's BCG (non National-match) in phosphate or chrome-plated. I have two chrome-plated ones in separate rifles and they are a joy to clean. I know Young Mfg isn't brought up very often, but Wes at MSTN and the guys at High Caliber Sales use them quite a bit for their builds, too.
Anybody have any experience with PSA BCG?
I have one in a range toy I slapped together. It seems to work OK, but there are a lot of tool marks and the surface is rough enough that when I wipe it with an oily rag it strips enough fiber off of the rag to look like it has fur. If you can catch it on sale and it's only for a range toy, it's likely alright, but if it's a rifle you're willing to bet your life on, then buy something better.
Anybody have any experience with PSA BCG?
I have 3 of the PSA Premium groups, no issues with any of them. Staked keys and the PSA appearance is on par with the 2 Colt groups I have.
The only reason I didn't go PSA last year was I was looking during a period when the premiums were either out of stock or at an elevated price.
fallenromeo
02-18-17, 14:04
Anybody have any experience with PSA BCG?
I have a premium BCG, it is alright. Hasn't had any issues yet, but then again, it is just in a range toy rifle and I am not particularly hard on it. It has not given me a reason to not trust it, but I am still apprehensive because several members have had issues with them.
Using the search feature will yield multiple results about PSA.
Anybody have any experience with PSA BCG?
I have 3 of the PSA Premium groups, no issues with any of them. Staked keys and the PSA appearance is on par with the 2 Colt groups I have.
The only reason I didn't go PSA last year was I was looking during a period when the premiums were either out of stock or at an elevated price.
I too have no complaints with the PSA. Fit and finish is as good as my preferred Toolcraft BCGs. Gas Key staking, chrome lining, etc. are all well done. I haven't ran enough rounds through one to speak to longevity, but the majority of user reports I've seen indicate it will be just fine. Occasionally, you'll see users with issues. I sort of had one initially. It was minor, and they took care of me. Actually doing more than I was asking or expecting. You can read about it here (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?192841-Ever-had-an-Extractor-Spring-Insert-O-Ring-just-fall-out). Really, for what you can get one for, I'm not sure there is a better BCG in their price point.
So I put together another rifle recently using a Spikes Stripped lower, PSA LPK and BCM buffer, buffer tube and spring.
I need a BCG. Is it beneficial to spend $185 on a BCM/DD bolt over a $99 PSA FA bolt?
Toolcraft for cheap
Colt or BCM for more $$$
My go to BCG's are LMT and Colt, followed closely by Daniel Defense and BCM. I have one WMD BCG I bought during the Sandy Hook Scare for my Block II SBR, and there have been no issues. However, I stick with the brands that I trust with my life
RobertTheTexan
02-19-17, 14:50
My go to BCG's are LMT and Colt, followed closely by Daniel Defense and BCM. I have one WMD BCG I bought during the Sandy Hook Scare for my Block II SBR, and there have been no issues. However, I stick with the brands that I trust with my life
That's a solid group to stick with. I've tried others, specifically Ballistic Advantage, when I couldn't find an LMT or Colt, I bought a NiB Ballistic Advantage BCG for my SPR. It has worked flawlessly, but will eventually change that out for an LMT.
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