View Full Version : BCM KMR M-LOK late 2017
MeanCarbine
02-16-17, 19:40
As posted on TOS...
"We wanted to expand the KMR handguard line last year, but industry demands (from the election) made it so we were overrun with backorders. As such we couldn't shut down machines to prototype or run new SKUs if the KMR demands exceed supply. We expect 2017 to return back to normal volumes. A KMR version in Mlok and Picatinny should be out in late 2017. (along with some other cool new parts)
Thank you very much for your interest in BCM products! "
-BravoCompanyUSA
[emoji15] and I will be getting one of those.... curious on what the weight difference will be seeing as MLOK requires more material
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Very sweet.
I'm interested in seeing the picatinny version.
556BlackRifle
02-16-17, 19:54
I want one! Been waiting on this for a while.
Press Check
02-16-17, 19:58
Unfortunately, In BCM timing, late 2017 actually and most certainly means mid 2018. From inception to completion, BCM is extremely slow.
masenomics
02-16-17, 20:17
A KMR in M-lok is great news, I wanted one since they released the original KMR handguard.
Even if it takes until 2018 I'm so happy BCM had at least decided to make an M-Lok one.
I won't be buying any new rails until the Mlok let alpha is released.
A
A KMR version in Mlok and Picatinny should be out in late 2017. (along with some other cool new parts)
Um.... HUH? A KMR version in Mlok would me an MLR. No? WTF good would that be? I have a MK 4 Geiselle with some Mlok slots (apparently), and they're useless. I'd rather have pic rails running the length.
Zero interest in M-LOK, but give me a quad rail KMR, please!
Zero interest in M-LOK, but give me a quad rail KMR, please!
I am here. A pic version, a PMR I suppose, lol. would be the tits. Do that and a proper OD green for their furniture and I'd be on it like a fat kid on an all you can eat chinese buffet. Fast, lewd, and a little gross.
Torquetard
02-16-17, 21:32
Maybe theyll take the LaRue approach and say it'll be a while then have it on your doorstep the next day
As posted on TOS...
"We wanted to expand the KMR handguard line last year, but industry demands (from the election) made it so we were overrun with backorders. As such we couldn't shut down machines to prototype or run new SKUs if the KMR demands exceed supply. We expect 2017 to return back to normal volumes. A KMR version in Mlok and Picatinny should be out in late 2017. (along with some other cool new parts)
Thank you very much for your interest in BCM products! "
-BravoCompanyUSA
Holy crap. Now I know what rail I'll be getting!
Don Robison
02-16-17, 23:40
I've been hoping they would do that.
Very interesting. I hope it is executed well.
Very interesting. I hope it is executed well.
I would hope that it's an exact copy of the KMR but with M-LOK slots. Time will tell.
Finally. Took long enough :D
Need.
I would hope that it's an exact copy of the KMR but with M-LOK slots. Time will tell.
Me too. The KMR is probably one of the best looking rails aesthetically.
Hopefully it's compatible with the current KMR barrel nuts. I'd like to get all of my rifles down to picatinny and mlok and this would help with that. Hopefully they release their new reinforced upper recievers when these new rails launch, and make the enhanced midlength fluted barrels in 16" instead of only 14.5" . One can only hope..
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Um.... HUH? A KMR version in Mlok would me an MLR. No? WTF good would that be? I have a MK 4 Geiselle with some Mlok slots (apparently), and they're useless. I'd rather have pic rails running the length.
What would you call this Mark? PICKEYMOD? I am not fond of skeleton style rails but the combination of picatinny and key-mod is genius! It uses the BCM nut and hardware.
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t414/ghchhisc/BL_zpsaszctsqb.jpg
Unfortunately, In BCM timing, late 2017 actually and most certainly means mid 2018. From inception to completion, BCM is extremely slow.
So still not nearly as bad as Surefire timing? :p
What would you call this Mark? PICKEYMOD? I am not fond of skeleton style rails but the combination of picatinny and key-mod is genius! It uses the BCM nut and hardware.
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t414/ghchhisc/BL_zpsaszctsqb.jpg
That's called picmod. Bootleg industries, who is a sister company to PWS makes it. I have never used it but have heard good things.
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I kinda knew this was going to happen, if only from a business stand point.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/01/28/m-lok-outselling-keymod-about-3-to-1/
That's called picmod. Bootleg industries, who is a sister company to PWS makes it. I have never used it but have heard good things.
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Interesting approach to making a freefloat handguard... The biggest problem (for me) with both KeyMod and M-LOK is the intrusion of the mounting hardware into the handguard's ID. If you have a big barrel or a handguard that mounts over your gas block - combined with a very narrow handguard - there are KM or M-LOK slots that are not usable.
I'm very interested to see what a pic rail KMR looks like.
That's what's nice about the picmod, those areas like where the gas block is it has picatinny rail to attach to.
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I would hope that it's an exact copy of the KMR but with M-LOK slots. Time will tell.
Sadly taking measurements off my KMR I don't think Mlok will work on the 1:30, 4:30, 7:30 and 10:30 positions, the rail is just too small.
I assume it will use the same barrel nut as the current KMR series, similar to the new Bootleg rails. Meaning I could complete a build if necessary with a KMR rail, then swap it out when the new variants become available. Hmmm. That definitely has me looking at picking up an Alpha more seriously.
I kinda knew this was going to happen, if only from a business stand point.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/01/28/m-lok-outselling-keymod-about-3-to-1/
That has nothing to do with it. People would be SHOCKED at how many KM KMR's BCM sells (just shocked). Paul and I have talked about MLOK KMR's for over a year now. The issue wasn't that they (BCM) were against MLOK, but that they could not keep up with their current requirements.
As things slow down (and actually go back to normal) I think we will see companies have time to breath. This leads to innovation and or variations of existing products. 2018 Shot Show should show us this.
C4
That has nothing to do with it. People would be SHOCKED at how many KM KMR's BCM sells (just shocked). Paul and I have talked about MLOK KMR's for over a year now. The issue wasn't that they (BCM) were against MLOK, but that they could not keep up with their current requirements.
As things slow down (and actually go back to normal) I think we will see companies have time to breath. This leads to innovation and or variations of existing products. 2018 Shot Show should show us this.
C4
I'm sure that they do sell quite a lot, I see one just about every time I go to the range. I'm just saying that they theoretically could sell quite a lot more in the M-Lok configuration.
I'm sure that they do sell quite a lot, I see one just about every time I go to the range. I'm just saying that they theoretically could sell quite a lot more in the M-Lok configuration.
Oh, sure. They just couldn't meet the demands with KM so there was really no reason to make MLOK.
C4
MSparks909
02-17-17, 12:53
I own and use both. Never quite understood all the distaste towards Keymod. Glad to see BCM continuing to innovate, but I'm not going to rush out and switch all my actual KMRs for MLOK KMRs..
BufordTJustice
02-17-17, 13:58
Interesting approach to making a freefloat handguard... The biggest problem (for me) with both KeyMod and M-LOK is the intrusion of the mounting hardware into the handguard's ID. If you have a big barrel or a handguard that mounts over your gas block - combined with a very narrow handguard - there are KM or M-LOK slots that are not usable.
I'm very interested to see what a pic rail KMR looks like.
BCM keymod hardware, with the integrated reverse threaded keymod and hex screw assembly, does not intrude into the handguard's ID. Just FYI.
Below, BCM offset 1" light mount next to my SLR sentry 6 Ti. The main protrusions are actually BCM keymod panels.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170217/670e6f0f9edd38ee5b9c22bf39cfcf2d.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170217/6b11812b3adbbfb754fab624b7636321.jpg
I would be all over a KMR style quad rail.
I have 1 of the original KMRs and 2 KMR alphas and I like them a lot but I prefer picatinny rails. I have been wanting to try MLOK and I'll likely buy both MLOK and Picatinny if they use the same barrel nut.
BCM keymod hardware, with the integrated reverse threaded keymod and hex screw assembly, does not intrude into the handguard's ID. Just FYI.
Below, BCM offset 1" light mount next to my SLR sentry 6 Ti. The main protrusions are actually BCM keymod panels.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170217/670e6f0f9edd38ee5b9c22bf39cfcf2d.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170217/6b11812b3adbbfb754fab624b7636321.jpg
That's cool.
Can the BCM screw assemblies be retrofitted onto any KeyMod accessory?
I own and use both. Never quite understood all the distaste towards Keymod. Glad to see BCM continuing to innovate, but I'm not going to rush out and switch all my actual KMRs for MLOK KMRs..
It's easy to understand... People that are not mechanically inclined and don't follow directions are not smart enough to use KeyMod. MagPul's marketing department understands that at least half of the shooting population are dubasses and suck up the coolaid they pour. I don't blame them at all for doing what they do but in the end I prefer Keymod.
I am here. A pic version, a PMR I suppose, lol. would be the tits. Do that and a proper OD green for their furniture and I'd be on it like a fat kid on an all you can eat chinese buffet. Fast, lewd, and a little gross.
QR? PR? 1913R? I like 1913R... But yeah, as long as it's a legitimate Picatinny rail, not the PicMod stuff (nothing wrong with it, but not what I've cursed BCM for not making), I'll be all over it. OD stuff is cool, but I'm still trying to channel my will hard enough for a run of Dissipator uppers and Gunfighter AK stuff lol.
I have 1 of the original KMRs and 2 KMR alphas and I like them a lot but I prefer picatinny rails. I have been wanting to try MLOK and I'll likely buy both MLOK and Picatinny if they use the same barrel nut.
I have tried M-LOK several times now with Magpul polymer stuff, and I don't get the allure. A KeyMod accessory with Loctite and hand-tight plus some more seems a hell of a lot more straight forward to me than trying to find the perfect depth for two or three M-LOK nuts.
Maybe I don't understand, but that shit's way too tedious for my ape brain and toddler-like patience.
friendlyfireisnt
02-17-17, 18:18
QR? PR? 1913R? I like 1913R... But yeah, as long as it's a legitimate Picatinny rail, not the PicMod stuff (nothing wrong with it, but not what I've cursed BCM for not making), I'll be all over it. OD stuff is cool, but I'm still trying to channel my will hard enough for a run of Dissipator uppers and Gunfighter AK stuff lol.
I have tried M-LOK several times now with Magpul polymer stuff, and I don't get the allure. A KeyMod accessory with Loctite and hand-tight plus some more seems a hell of a lot more straight forward to me than trying to find the perfect depth for two or three M-LOK nuts.
Maybe I don't understand, but that shit's way too tedious for my ape brain and toddler-like patience.
There is a trick with M-Lok, but once you figure it out, it's very quick and secure. Once you get the feel, it's a good setup.
Unfortunately, In BCM timing, late 2017 actually and most certainly means mid 2018. From inception to completion, BCM is extremely slow.
Are you a betting man?
Nightstalker865
02-17-17, 18:38
Really looking forward to both options. As long as they continue to use the current barrel nut design.
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556BlackRifle
02-17-17, 19:19
I have and like both styles. My rifles are set up the way I want so it doesn't matter which attachment method as long as it's solid. That said, I have more M-Lok rifles in my safe.
Really looking forward to both options. As long as they continue to use the current barrel nut design.
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They really need to fix the wrench cutouts on their barrel nuts. I haven't had one that hasn't had non-stop problems with the wrench slipping off during assembly, requiring filework just to get the nut flat enough to put the rail on without marring the hell out of it.
That has nothing to do with it. People would be SHOCKED at how many KM KMR's BCM sells (just shocked). Paul and I have talked about MLOK KMR's for over a year now. The issue wasn't that they (BCM) were against MLOK, but that they could not keep up with their current requirements.
C4
I think the BCM quad rail is going to clean house. Now that keymod and mlok have been out for awhile, more and more poeple seem to be interested in quad rails again. I don't know if you are seeing that reflect in your sales or not, but the 1913 rail seems to be picking up steam.
Your thoughts?
QR? PR? 1913R? I like 1913R... But yeah, as long as it's a legitimate Picatinny rail, not the PicMod stuff (nothing wrong with it, but not what I've cursed BCM for not making), I'll be all over it. OD stuff is cool, but I'm still trying to channel my will hard enough for a run of Dissipator uppers and Gunfighter AK stuff lol.
Lol. I wouldn't be surprised if they are working on Ak stuff. But, if we are talking about trying to will BCM to put out products, a .308 AR from there has been on the top of my list for a couple years.
Now all we need is Geissele to finally make a picatinny SMR in 9.5-10".
Press Check
02-17-17, 22:51
Are you a betting man?
Yep, I could confidently bet that we won't see that rail in 2017. It took over a year for the SOPMOD stock.
QR? PR? 1913R? I like 1913R... But yeah, as long as it's a legitimate Picatinny rail, not the PicMod stuff (nothing wrong with it, but not what I've cursed BCM for not making), I'll be all over it.
Not that I am anyone, and clearly I don't speak for BCM, but I wouldn't worry about seeing a 1913 modification, it will be straight up 1913 rails.
Fwiw I'd love to see full length 1913 rails but utilizing a lighter alloy. That'd be scwheet.
I think the BCM quad rail is going to clean house. Now that keymod and mlok have been out for awhile, more and more poeple seem to be interested in quad rails again. I don't know if you are seeing that reflect in your sales or not, but the 1913 rail seems to be picking up steam.
Your thoughts?
I think what is old is new again. There are large groups of people that have never seen one. 1913 rails are for sure the most rugged platform for mounting things.
C4
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Yep, I could confidently bet that we won't see that rail in 2017. It took over a year for the SOPMOD stock.
Prototypes are already out.
C4
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BufordTJustice
02-18-17, 11:12
That's cool.
Can the BCM screw assemblies be retrofitted onto any KeyMod accessory?
THAT is a good question. I honestly don't know, so I'll default to "no".
BufordTJustice
02-18-17, 11:18
It's easy to understand... People that are not mechanically inclined and don't follow directions are not smart enough to use KeyMod. MagPul's marketing department understands that at least half of the shooting population are dubasses and suck up the coolaid they pour. I don't blame them at all for doing what they do but in the end I prefer Keymod.
Agreed. I bet the same people who gorilla keymod stuff into the ground also don't have a sold mechanical zero with their chosen SD/HD load across their irons and optics.
I use blue Vibra-tite gel because it's a little easier to work with, but same end result. I have beat the shit out of my duty keymod stuff and have NEVER had one come loose when attached as you describe; hand tight plus just a smidge. Never had any slots deform, either.
BufordTJustice
02-18-17, 11:19
I think the BCM quad rail is going to clean house. Now that keymod and mlok have been out for awhile, more and more poeple seem to be interested in quad rails again. I don't know if you are seeing that reflect in your sales or not, but the 1913 rail seems to be picking up steam.
Your thoughts?
Agreed. Quad rails with smart lightening cuts are making a come back.
Agreed. Quad rails with smart lightening cuts are making a come back.
Why is this? I never quite understood why so much 1913 rail is needed. The lightening is a good idea, the things are usually kind of hefty.
JackFanToM
02-18-17, 11:36
I'm sure that they do sell quite a lot, I see one just about every time I go to the range. I'm just saying that they theoretically could sell quite a lot more in the M-Lok configuration.
Where I don't disagree with diversifying, however how exactly will it increase sales, if they struggle to keep up with current demand? I said this in another thread, as people kept asking for an mlok version of a kmr, why would bcm spend time and money retooling until they can meet and exceed current demand.
JackFanToM
02-18-17, 11:41
They really need to fix the wrench cutouts on their barrel nuts. I haven't had one that hasn't had non-stop problems with the wrench slipping off during assembly, requiring filework just to get the nut flat enough to put the rail on without marring the hell out of it.
I have done 4 so far, and I have no idea why you had issues. Pretty straightforward and if you use steady constant torque in the correct direction, I'm not sure how it would slip.
sidewaysil80
02-18-17, 11:49
Where I don't disagree with diversifying, however how exactly will it increase sales, if they struggle to keep up with current demand? I said this in another thread, as people kept asking for an mlok version of a kmr, why would bcm spend time and money retooling until they can meet and exceed current demand.
That was the whole point of them waiting until late 2017. They are finally getting caught up with production and ready to start rolling out new products.
JackFanToM
02-18-17, 11:57
Obviously, but how does it increase sales. If you are capable of manufacturing 100 kmrs a month and you sell 100, how is switching to mlok going to increase your sales if you sell all you make either way?
sidewaysil80
02-18-17, 12:06
Obviously, but how does it increase sales. If you are capable of manufacturing 100 kmrs a month and you sell 100, how is switching to mlok going to increase your sales if you sell all you make either way?
In his the very first post. They were swamped with backorders from pre-election but things have finally calmed down enough to start prototyping new products. They expect 2017 to be much slower and as such are able to release new products.
jackblack73
02-18-17, 12:23
Obviously, but how does it increase sales. If you are capable of manufacturing 100 kmrs a month and you sell 100, how is switching to mlok going to increase your sales if you sell all you make either way?
Do you think BCM has no desire to grow any further? If they can sell x, but there's still a market for y, they can reallocate, expand, buy another CNC machine, order more from suppliers, etc.
BufordTJustice
02-18-17, 12:41
Why is this? I never quite understood why so much 1913 rail is needed. The lightening is a good idea, the things are usually kind of hefty.
I still don't like them for my uses, but for folks who need to mount DBAL type devices (which can't use keymod yet because a screw has to penetrate the center of the device), dress cords for a laser designator and white light to different pressure pads, rails are kinda like bed cleats in a pickup truck; lots of stuff to which you can tie-down cords and pads and things.
I still don't like them for my uses, but for folks who need to mount DBAL type devices (which can't use keymod yet because a screw has to penetrate the center of the device), dress cords for a laser designator and white light to different pressure pads, rails are kinda like bed cleats in a pickup truck; lots of stuff to which you can tie-down cords and pads and things.
Sounds like what you're describing is military usage ( maybe contractors also), which if it is, makes sense. I forgot about the military angle.
BufordTJustice
02-18-17, 13:20
Sounds like what you're describing is military usage ( maybe contractors also), which if it is, makes sense. I forgot about the military angle.
True, but also LE specialty teams. And, if we're all being honest, I'd LOVE to have a set of gen-IV night vision goggles to use with a DBAL's IR laser output and/or my T1 on night vision.
Takes longer to don and doff, but nothing better than hunting bad guys in the darkness. It's the ultimate tactical advantage.
Especially with a suppressor.
So, while that's impractical on my salary right now, with economies of scale working ever in our favor, it's not necessarily a pipe dream for the next five or ten years.
Since bcm is getting into MLOK my only request is please just make an MLOK KAG. I got one on a range toy with a keymod rail and it is by far one of the best grips I've used and would love an MLOK version
This is great news, been a long time coming and I will be patiently waiting to buy a new BCM M Lok upper
JackFanToM
02-18-17, 14:57
Do you think BCM has no desire to grow any further? If they can sell x, but there's still a market for y, they can reallocate, expand, buy another CNC machine, order more from suppliers, etc.
Yeah, easy to say and not so easy to do. You assume there is some guarantee of an ROI in doing so. Yes, it is slowing down, but again you are still limited in your potential revenue by your ability to produce enough of whatever product you sell (i.e. I run hotels and I have 175 rooms I can sell on Wednesday I could sell 500 rooms easy, but then I have to staff it, utilities, more overhead, and then I run even lower occupancy on weekends).
My point was simply that if they convert to mlok over kmr they will not make any additional revenue over the kmr...unless the rail costs less to make or they charge more for them. Sell a 100 rails at $250, and it will be the same money whether it is mlok or kmr.
wildcard600
02-18-17, 15:48
Yeah, easy to say and not so easy to do. You assume there is some guarantee of an ROI in doing so. Yes, it is slowing down, but again you are still limited in your potential revenue by your ability to produce enough of whatever product you sell (i.e. I run hotels and I have 175 rooms I can sell on Wednesday I could sell 500 rooms easy, but then I have to staff it, utilities, more overhead, and then I run even lower occupancy on weekends).
My point was simply that if they convert to mlok over kmr they will not make any additional revenue over the kmr...unless the rail costs less to make or they charge more for them. Sell a 100 rails at $250, and it will be the same money whether it is mlok or kmr.
I took from the quote that they now had excess production capacity, so Sales < Production. In the now slower retail climate to make a rail type that sells ~3 to 1 over the old format seems like the right decision.
JackFanToM
02-18-17, 15:58
Still a gamble, consider this analogy - Burger King is home of the whopper, and the Big Mac out sells it, so Burger King makes the big king...big gamble with no guarantee of a return. I'm not a betting man, but I'd bet this gamble will pay off for BCM, but there are no guarantees.
My statement does not take into account whether or not sales of kmrs have lagged, and thereby they have the potential to reach that same sales with mlok that they had with kmr. I simply stated that the money would be equal at best. My point is, if you sell everything you produce, you decide to produce a different product that is the same price and same cost to produce, you cannot expect to make more money.
RAM Engineer
02-18-17, 16:01
I have a MK 4 Geiselle with some Mlok slots (apparently), and they're useless. I'd rather have pic rails running the length.
Mark, I'd like to hear more about this. What don't you like about the Geissele MLok rails?
sidewaysil80
02-18-17, 16:11
Still a gamble, consider this analogy - Burger King is home of the whopper, and the Big Mac out sells it, so Burger King makes the big king...big gamble with no guarantee of a return. I'm not a betting man, but I'd bet this gamble will pay off for BCM, but there are no guarantees.
My statement does not take into account whether or not sales of kmrs have lagged, and thereby they have the potential to reach that same sales with mlok that they had with kmr. I simply stated that the money would be equal at best. My point is, if you sell everything you produce, you decide to produce a different product that is the same price and same cost to produce, you cannot expect to make more money.
I think you are overthinking this, a lot. They generate multi-millions in revenue, I'm pretty sure they know what they are doing in terms of production, forecasting sales, and manufacturing. But again, they were pumping out ONLY kmr rails due to demand and back orders. They have finally caught up post elections and they are predicating sales of the kmr keymod to slow down in 2017, hence they are innovating some new products to offer.
JackFanToM
02-18-17, 16:27
Nope, no over thinking, just a solid sales background and a good understanding of business, especially as it pertains to ROI. I never once stated it was a bad idea, just that assuming more money from the same line that was already at capacity is an assumption based upon a lack of understanding.
jackblack73
02-18-17, 16:35
M-Lok also reportedly takes less machine time than keymod, and it's pretty easy to see why. So it's cheaper to produce an M-Lok rail than a keymod rail. Don't know for sure, but it looks like it would be extremely easy to convert a KMR to M-Lok. (I think it was mentioned in this thread prototypes are already out there?) It's not like they would be designing a whole new rail. If the demand for M-Lok that other sources are reporting is accurate, they could theoretically cease making all keymod KMRs, convert to M-Lok only, add no new equipment, produce and sell more rails, and make more money.
556BlackRifle
02-18-17, 16:43
Nope, no over thinking, just a solid sales background and a good understanding of business, especially as it pertains to ROI. I never once stated it was a bad idea, just that assuming more money from the same line that was already at capacity is an assumption based upon a lack of understanding.
Apples and oranges but, Noveske (btw; first to market with a skinny keymod rail) added M-Lok to their lineup last year. I have one and it's really nice. I still like my keymod systems but eventually, there is going to be one king of the hill in this Beta vs VHS war and it may not necessarily be the best system that wins. It's what the customer buys that's important here. Most shooters I know in my personal life prefer M-Lok purely for aesthetic reasons. I've been teased a lot showing up with my Gorilla-Rack handguards. My two cents for what it's worth. :)
JackFanToM
02-18-17, 16:58
M-Lok also reportedly takes less machine time than keymod, and it's pretty easy to see why. So it's cheaper to produce an M-Lok rail than a keymod rail. Don't know for sure, but it looks like it would be extremely easy to convert a KMR to M-Lok. (I think it was mentioned in this thread prototypes are already out there?) It's not like they would be designing a whole new rail. If the demand for M-Lok that other sources are reporting is accurate, they could theoretically cease making all keymod KMRs, convert to M-Lok only, add no new equipment, produce and sell more rails, and make more money.
Mlok is less $ to produce? Can you provide any data that backs that? Do you have a cost on how much it will cost to retool, re-engineer the line, obtain new engineering designs, test, etc.? Do you have any actual sales data from all sources, or simply basing it on the quote from a blog (that only mentions one source if I recall correctly?)? All we have is speculation and assumption. I would like an mlok option from bcm, but without some actual data that backs any of the above assumptions, it is hard to see how the same amount of production making more money.
jackblack73
02-18-17, 17:13
How could someone possibly question that M-Lok is cheaper to produce? Just look at them. Even to a layperson it's easy to see M-Lok is a simple 90 degree cut, while each keymod slot involves both a 90 degree cut and a beveled undercut.
JackFanToM
02-18-17, 17:19
It may appear that way to us "laymen", but I'm not making any assumptions. After opening 3 hotels in 5 years, and dealing with construction contractors, I've found that what appears to be easier is not always the reality.
556BlackRifle
02-18-17, 18:07
It may appear that way to us "laymen", but I'm not making any assumptions. After opening 3 hotels in 5 years, and dealing with construction contractors, I've found that what appears to be easier is not always the reality.
Bill Geissele stopped producing KeyMod a few years ago. I recall reading or hearing him say just that on one of his videos.
Lol. I wouldn't be surprised if they are working on Ak stuff. But, if we are talking about trying to will BCM to put out products, a .308 AR from there has been on the top of my list for a couple years.
I think the last time I said I wanted AK grips in one of their threads here, they said they weren't doing AK stuff. I don't remember the response to the people asking for a .308 AR, but I mean, it has to happen at some point, right? Right?
Not that I am anyone, and clearly I don't speak for BCM, but I wouldn't worry about seeing a 1913 modification, it will be straight up 1913 rails.
Good to know. I wouldn't expect anything else, but still, it would be a bit of a let down. A simple, well-executed quad rail is a beautiful thing.
There is a trick with M-Lok, but once you figure it out, it's very quick and secure. Once you get the feel, it's a good setup.
I'm sure there is, I just give up easily :D
DreadPirateMoyer
02-18-17, 20:15
Mlok is less $ to produce? Can you provide any data that backs that? Do you have a cost on how much it will cost to retool, re-engineer the line, obtain new engineering designs, test, etc.? Do you have any actual sales data from all sources, or simply basing it on the quote from a blog (that only mentions one source if I recall correctly?)? All we have is speculation and assumption. I would like an mlok option from bcm, but without some actual data that backs any of the above assumptions, it is hard to see how the same amount of production making more money.
Geissele himself has said MLOK has saved him about 20 minutes per rail due to its simplicity, ease of machining, etc. compared to KM. That doesn't necessarily mean cheaper to produce, but in this case, it probably does.
Geissele himself has said MLOK has saved him about 20 minutes per rail due to its simplicity, ease of machining, etc. compared to KM. That doesn't necessarily mean cheaper to produce, but in this case, it probably does.
I used an MI rail in this example only because both M-Loc an KeyMod are pictured on the same page. Each flat on their 15" rail has 8 slots in M-Loc vs 15 KeyMod attachment points. More holes = more time. The KeyMod slot has a bevel on the inside that adds a tool change. I agree that KeyMod takes longer but I have a problem believing 20 minutes longer. Bill must have one slow ass machine!
Press Check
02-19-17, 12:28
Prototypes are already out.
C4
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If there's a prototype, safe to assume that there's a picture available, right?
Well, no one knows bcm's financials. If they say it made sense to do what they have, I believe them. There's details that no one knows other than the people making the decisions. Everything else is speculation, anecdotal analogies, and/or bs.
Can't wait till it comes out. I'm most likely buying one.
Yep, I could confidently bet that we won't see that rail in 2017. It took over a year for the SOPMOD stock.
No sir, you are weaseling already. Your comment is shown below in entirety.
Unfortunately, In BCM timing, late 2017 actually and most certainly means mid 2018. From inception to completion, BCM is extremely slow.
MOST CERTAINLY MEANS MID 2018.... You appear to be already backtracking.
Prototypes are already out.
C4
Grant, I'm going to need you to shut the hell up if I am going to be able to sucker people into something stupid when they don't know what they are talking about.... :p
If there's a prototype, safe to assume that there's a picture available, right?
Ignore Grant, he is on the crazy train, lets get back to your comment and the bet.... ;)
Press Check
02-19-17, 19:57
No sir, you are weaseling already. Your comment is shown below in entirety.
MOST CERTAINLY MEANS MID 2018.... You appear to be already backtracking.
Nope, absolutely not. I'm sticking with 2018.
Dose this mean that there will be MLok BCM gunfighter accessories & vertical foregrips?
If there's a prototype, safe to assume that there's a picture available, right?
To quote a 15 year old high school girl when I asked if she had been assaulted, "No duuuuuh"!! :)
I'm looking forward to BCM MLok accessories.
It's good to have another option for MLok rails.
elephantrider
02-23-17, 16:06
Bill must have one slow ass machine!
I figure him for the guy that does things the slow/hard way to produce a better product in the end, so it's possible. I think the Geissele decision to drop keymod, ultimately had more to do with their judgement on which was the superior mounting system.
I figure him for the guy that does things the slow/hard way to produce a better product in the end, so it's possible. I think the Geissele decision to drop keymod, ultimately had more to do with their judgement on which was the superior mounting system.
The slow hard way doesn't produce a better product than the new fast way. I have all the respect in the world for Bill but if he can't detail an extrusion in 10 minutes he ain't making any $$$. Add 20 minutes to that and he is going bankrupt at the speed of light. I seriously doubt he manufactures them in house anyway. I doubt he would claim one is better than the other but I have no doubt he sells more M than K. Like I said earlier... There are a lot more people that drink the kool-aid and believe M is idiot proof!
Press Check
03-07-17, 22:05
Forgot to ask if anyone knows if these will retain use of the same barrel nut and mounting system?
mebiuspower
03-08-17, 07:50
Forgot to ask if anyone knows if these will retain use of the same barrel nut and mounting system?
of course.
I saw the KMR Picatinny at the Battlecomp booth at Shot Show earlier this year.
I saw the KMR Picatinny at the Battlecomp booth at Shot Show earlier this year.
So where's the picture that you took? :D
So where's the picture that you took? :D
There are plenty of pictures of things which people have been asked not to show. Most people are good enough not to show them until the allotted time.
ETA- I'm not saying Bowser shouldn't show the picture, as I have no idea if he was asked anything at all.
From my point of view, BCM is excellent about releasing products into the wild when those products are ready. I can't recall them releasing any flops. I'm sure BCM appreciates all of the business advice, but it seems that they have a handle on that as well. With that said, I'd love a BCM308 carbine, please.
I have a few KMR's that are doing just fine, and I've never had any issues with keymod attachments. I'm not surprised that some people do have problems with it, because I encounter young men all of the time that don't have a grasp of "righty tighty, lefty loosey". This must really make keymod mind-blowing.
Just like everything else BCM offers, I'm sure I will find a reason(excuse) to purchase whatever it is. Mlok<KM<Picatinny...IMO.
I remember about year ago the BCM M-LOK was suggested and people lost their shit. Funny as hell.
I am interested in this picatinny rail. I hope we get some info soonish.
I am interested in this picatinny rail. I hope we get some info soonish.
What type of "some info soonish" were you looking for?
It is coming, it works with the same barrel nut, and it is a complete length 1913 rail.
What type of "some info soonish" were you looking for?
It is coming, it works with the same barrel nut, and it is a complete length 1913 rail.
Mainly: available lengths, weights, and if there will be a model with the magnesium alloy.
Eta:
Also curious about the profile. I dont care for wide rails like the c4. I have a dd lite 3 and its the perfect profile imo.
If they were smart it would be the Larue/DD RIS II thinner profile. Just my opinion.
What type of "some info soonish" were you looking for?
It is coming, it works with the same barrel nut, and it is a complete length 1913 rail.
This makes me happy
ExplorinInTheWoods
03-18-17, 22:02
Does this mean I can get bcm short very grips with mlok now?
mebiuspower
03-20-17, 08:57
Mainly: available lengths, weights, and if there will be a model with the magnesium alloy.
Eta:
Also curious about the profile. I dont care for wide rails like the c4. I have a dd lite 3 and its the perfect profile imo.
They're done with the mag alloy blend.
They're done with the mag alloy blend.
That a recent development? They had a run of mag KMR13 and 15's just a couple months ago.
They do them as they can, as I understand.
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MeanCarbine
03-31-17, 18:00
From their FB page:
Congratulations to Magpul Industries with the recent announcement from United States Special Operation Command (USSOCOM) with the adoption of the MLok interface system.
BCM has been working on expanding on the highly sought after KMR series of handguards. As such this is a good time to announce we will be offering a MLock version called the BCM MMR. (also a quad rail version, BCM QRF). They have been in development for some time and ETA on these is late 2017.
The BCM MMR series will offer the same length modular rails systems fitted for the Magpul MLok system, along with MLok versions of all the BCM accessories.
BCM has no desire to slow down or stop the developments of KeyMod related components, being that is very popular among shooter and professionals worldwide. In fact, BCM will continue to develop rail systems and accessories for all three interfaces systems (MLok, KeyMod, and Picatinny), covering the demands and needs for all shooters and warfighters.
We look forward to fill the needs of the masses and will continue to develop and offer quality product for the advanced warfighter.
-Bravo Company USA
#winning
Looking forward to the QRF
whatthepuck
03-31-17, 18:06
I've got a 6720 with an FSP just waiting to be ground down for the 15" MMR...
masenomics
03-31-17, 18:24
That's great news, a lot sooner than I expected them to realease these new handguards.
I'm sure there aren't any hard numbers just yet, but I'm curious if the MMR will be the same weight (or possibly lighter) than the KMR. I also wonder how light the QRF will be. A sub 10 oz picatinny rail would be awesome, though more than likely improbable. We shall see.
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Press Check
04-03-17, 17:50
For those that are in-the-know, will MLOK mounts be available at 11 and 1 o'clock? I seem to recall something about MLOK that wouldn't allow that.
elephantrider
04-03-17, 18:13
For those that are in-the-know, will MLOK mounts be available at 11 and 1 o'clock? I seem to recall something about MLOK that wouldn't allow that.
Short answer: don't know.
Long answer/speculation: The KMR is a small O.D. handguard. M-lok requires a certain amount of space for the slot and the surrounding flat for the m-lok slot. The KMR, if kept to the same overall O.D. as the Keymod version probably wont have enough room for M-lok slots/flats on the 45 degree angles. The ALG Defense EMR has M-lok at around 45 angles, but it is a larger diameter (~1.75" O.D.), and the flats are very minimal for M-lok. If you look at the slim Midwest Industries rails they just have M-lok at the 3, 6, and 9 I believe.
MLok sucks. Im sticking with Keymod.
elephantrider
04-03-17, 18:58
MLok sucks. Im sticking with Keymod.
Excellent explanation of the merits of one system over another for your personal uses.
Excellent explanation of the merits of one system over another for your personal uses.
I thought so.
jackblack73
04-03-17, 19:43
Short answer: don't know.
Long answer/speculation: The KMR is a small O.D. handguard. M-lok requires a certain amount of space for the slot and the surrounding flat for the m-lok slot. The KMR, if kept to the same overall O.D. as the Keymod version probably wont have enough room for M-lok slots/flats on the 45 degree angles. The ALG Defense EMR has M-lok at around 45 angles, but it is a larger diameter (~1.75" O.D.), and the flats are very minimal for M-lok. If you look at the slim Midwest Industries rails they just have M-lok at the 3, 6, and 9 I believe.
Midwest Industries actually has two versions, one with M-Lok at the 45s.
IMO the 10:30/1:30 flats on the KM KMR are all but useless for holding anything other than grip panels. I do run a QD sling cup at 10:30 on the receiver end but using it at 9 wouldn't change much.
IMO the 10:30/1:30 flats on the KM KMR are all but useless for holding anything other than grip panels. I do run a QD sling cup at 10:30 on the receiver end but using it at 9 wouldn't change much.
Seriously?! That's an ideal spot for a light. Much better location than 3 or 9.
Short answer: don't know.
Long answer/speculation: The KMR is a small O.D. handguard. M-lok requires a certain amount of space for the slot and the surrounding flat for the m-lok slot. The KMR, if kept to the same overall O.D. as the Keymod version probably wont have enough room for M-lok slots/flats on the 45 degree angles. The ALG Defense EMR has M-lok at around 45 angles, but it is a larger diameter (~1.75" O.D.), and the flats are very minimal for M-lok. If you look at the slim Midwest Industries rails they just have M-lok at the 3, 6, and 9 I believe.
The M-Lok TDP details a flat width of 0.600", which is actually smaller than KeyMod's minimum width of 0.615". An M-Lok version of the KMR will work just fine with the 45 degree interfaces.
Press Check
04-04-17, 11:26
The M-Lok TDP details a flat width of 0.600", which is actually smaller than KeyMod's minimum width of 0.615". An M-Lok version of the KMR will work just fine with the 45 degree interfaces.
That's great information. Coincidentally, I've had a M300 mounted at 1 o'clock since your Inline Scout Mount was released, and couldn't imagine mounting it anywhere else. If BCM doesn't offer the 45 degree flats, I'd keep my magnesium rails.
Seriously?! That's an ideal spot for a light. Much better location than 3 or 9.
Depends on the light and if you are running a BUIS on the end of the rail. Also whether mounting on left or right side and what side of the light the clamp is on. Something like Arisaka sells might be trouble free but if you have to mount a rails section to float the light you may have problems. The Picatinny tower at 12:00 will run interference with some rail/sight/light combos.
Depends on the light and if you are running a BUIS on the end of the rail. Also whether mounting on left or right side and what side of the light the clamp is on. Something like Arisaka sells might be trouble free but if you have to mount a rails section to float the light you may have problems. The Picatinny tower at 12:00 will run interference with some rail/sight/light combos.
Yeah, adding a rail section to change the mount is dumb and may cause issues at 10:30/1:30. Several manufacturers make direct attach mounts that work in those areas so using anything else to compensate makes little sense.
Dang, I need one of these for a spring/summer build... Love my KMRs, but I'm going Mlok with my new build....can't wait.
BTW - I've heard so many people ask for a .308 KMR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Depends on the light and if you are running a BUIS on the end of the rail. Also whether mounting on left or right side and what side of the light the clamp is on. Something like Arisaka sells might be trouble free but if you have to mount a rails section to float the light you may have problems. The Picatinny tower at 12:00 will run interference with some rail/sight/light combos.
I think that BUIS mounting needs to be rethought, and a Keymod or Mlok needs to be on the top of the rail instead of picatinny. Clearance for the gas block is part of the problem. I've got a test rifle where I try different parts. I have an ALG rail with a modified Mlok on top...the profile (tube) is excellent but it has a curved non-spec Mlok because they have to make room for a picatinny to mount the BUIS on.
What I'd like to see is a rail like the ALG with Mlok (or keymod) on top, and BUIS that direct attach. It will, of course have to be standardized, Magpul could set the standard and make BUIS for it.
IKnowNotEverything
04-20-17, 22:45
Handled the new picatinny rail this afternoon. Should have taken pictures but didn't think about it at the time. They have gone to extremes to lighten this bad boy up. Cutouts abound as well as a hollowed out area that runs lengthwise beneath the pic rails themselves. Looks to be very high quality, as one would expect from BCM. Felt very stout as well, the KMR in comparison feels fragile. Mounting system is identical.
This was in a local gun store so they are out in the wild.
Wait, what happened to late 2017 release?
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Wait, what happened to late 2017 release?
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I would assume that he meant that samples of the different rails are out in the wild.
Sounds like he is referring the quad rail version of the KMR. I saw a pic of it in the latest issue of SWAT magazine.
Sounds like he is referring the quad rail version of the KMR. I saw a pic of it in the latest issue of SWAT magazine.
Yes they're out there. The shop I work at got in a couple of rifles with this rail installed on them from the factory. They're marked QMF IIRC.
sidewaysil80
04-21-17, 06:00
That's great news, a lot sooner than I expected them to realease these new handguards.
I'm really looking forward to this product, but considering their track record late 2017 prob means mid 2018.
Any pictures? Google gave me nothing
RAM Engineer
04-21-17, 11:58
https://www.swatmag.com/
See scrolling ad #2 at the link above for a picture. Seems like the bottom rail isn't quite as tucked up as the KAC/Larue profile.
dramabeats
04-21-17, 12:20
Here's the photo
45159
I'm anxious to see the m-lok rail. Any spy pics of that?
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Here's the photo
45159
A little bigger:
http://personal.visualitymedia.com/personal/misc/bcmhg.png
methical20
04-22-17, 20:12
Any news on when longer versions will be available?
I've searched and can't find much info on these.
Damn, pretty excited for this rail. The only question is do I throw it on my "test" upper or go straight for the BCM shaped hole in my complete upper collection?
Are they still using aluminum magnesium blend or have they switched completely to the "Alpha" versions? Wondering if we'll see the M-Lok version in alum-mag blend.
Grant, when those MLOK rails shipping out to us mere mortals?!?! Opened Instagram, and then you pop up teasing us with something like that!!!!
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Grant, when those MLOK rails shipping out to us mere mortals?!?! Opened Instagram, and then you pop up teasing us with something like that!!!!
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Q3
C4
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beefcake6681
05-06-17, 23:04
Hey Grant, do you know if the MMR will use the same barrel nut as the KMR (interchangeable)?
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MountainRaven
05-06-17, 23:33
Hey Grant, do you know if the MMR will use the same barrel nut as the KMR (interchangeable)?
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This was covered earlier in the thread: Yes. All versions of the BCM handguard use the same barrel nut.
Still no pics of the MLOK rail?
beefcake6681
05-07-17, 00:30
Still no pics of the MLOK rail?
Grant posted a pic of it on his company's Facebook page.
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Still no pics of the MLOK rail?
Whenever BCM is ready, I'm sure good pics will sprout.
Grant posted a pic of it on his company's Facebook page.
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I don't have a Facebook, it's not allowing me to view the G&R Page.
beefcake6681
05-07-17, 00:43
I don't have a Facebook, it's not allowing me to view the G&R Page.
This is from the G&R Facebook pagehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170507/ea13284a2d1992a73f91146f2a4064fc.jpg
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This is from the G&R Facebook pagehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170507/ea13284a2d1992a73f91146f2a4064fc.jpg
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Oh wow...I'm in for a few.
thank you.
This is from the G&R Facebook pagehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170507/ea13284a2d1992a73f91146f2a4064fc.jpg
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I want.
Nightstalker865
05-07-17, 05:48
I can't wait for these to be released.
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Definitely gonna buy a pic and mlok. Looking forward to these
Grant are you allowed to talk dimensions? I'm curious how wide the pic rail is compared to the DD RIS II.
methical20
05-07-17, 11:22
I'm definitely going to pick up a 14.5" MMR complete upper.
While I understand BCM continuing to use the same barrel nut, I do wish they would have made it about twice as long like the Geissele/Hodge handguards.
beefcake6681
05-07-17, 11:25
I'll be picking up a MMR and pic upper for sure. I'm really looking forward to this.
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I like the full railed version for some reason. Does anyone know of it has a sling point on the front too?
Anxiously awaiting the BCM MMR!
Might have to sell off my CMR M-Lok and pick one of these up. I'm loving the looks of this thing. The only reason I didn't get a KMR in the first place was because I was a bigger fan of the M-Lok system over KeyMod, but I'm a huge fan of BCM.
KMR is really the primary reason for my use of Keymod.
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KMR is really the primary reason for my use of Keymod.
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Same. If they made one in MLOK available sooner I'd buy it. I'm in the market for one within the next few months. I don't think I can wait until the end of the year.
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Torquetard
05-09-17, 20:45
I was hoping they'd name it something genious, like BCMLok Rail,
Honestly, I just hope BCM releases an M-LOK version of their keymod rail panels. Those things are awesome.
I like the full railed version for some reason. Does anyone know of it has a sling point on the front too?
I wouldn't count on a QD sling point.
I wouldn't count on a QD sling point.
FSP version? Am I allowed to dream that dream?
FSP version? Am I allowed to dream that dream?
No sir, not at this time.
Honestly, I just hope BCM releases an M-LOK version of their keymod rail panels. Those things are awesome.
This x1000
methical20
05-10-17, 06:44
Looks like the QMR will have forward and rear QD points.
Nice! Is there a full picture yet?
There is on Kyle Defoor's tumblr site.
From the pictures already out there, can anyone tell if it uses the same barrel nut as the KMR?
beefcake6681
06-09-17, 13:59
From the pictures already out there, can anyone tell if it uses the same barrel nut as the KMR?
It does.
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Zero interest in M-LOK, but give me a quad rail KMR, please!
ask and you shall receive
I will be picking up a couple of the mlok versions when available. Those look fantastic. Thanks for sharing!
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stevenravenscroft
06-10-17, 16:36
Nice. I want 2
I needed one now....couldn't wait. I'm very happy that BCM MMR is using the same barrel nut, that way I don't have to remove the barrel nut from my KMR equipped rifles. I had to buy a mk14 to hold me over until the MMR is available, but I intend to buy two MMRs.
BTW is the MMR going to be aluminum-magnesium like the original KMR or aluminum like the KMR Alpha? Or both? How about 7075-T6?
Shrillar67
06-10-17, 17:32
KMR quadrail! [emoji7] dang just another excuse too build a Lower for my stock upper
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I would expect to start seeing images shortly.
These are going to sell like crazy. I'm definitely in line for a few MMR's and possibly the picatinny version as well, depending on weight.
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I needed one now....couldn't wait. I'm very happy that BCM MMR is using the same barrel nut, that way I don't have to remove the barrel nut from my KMR equipped rifles. I had to buy a mk14 to hold me over until the MMR is available, but I intend to buy two MMRs.
BTW is the MMR going to be aluminum-magnesium like the original KMR or aluminum like the KMR Alpha? Or both? How about 7075-T6?
I picked up an MK 14 and it's nice and solid, but shape and weight certainly don't compare to the KMR. I hope the MMR carries that over it mlok.
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I honestly want that quad rail version!
Sorry if I missed it but what is the weight on the mlok version, preferably in a 13 in version.
I'd be curious to see a comparison between the 1913 version and the Daniel Defense DDM4 rail. I'm sure that will be widely reviewed when these are out.
I'd be curious to see a comparison between the 1913 version and the Daniel Defense DDM4 rail. I'm sure that will be widely reviewed when these are out.
Price will be better on the BCM is my bet. Other specs likely pretty close.
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I want BCM MLOK attachments. I hate having a rail mount under my VFG.
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ask and you shall receive
That's hot. I could easily see every rail I own being a BCM.
sidewaysil80
06-11-17, 16:14
I am chomping at the bit for a BFH Govt Profile 11.5" Upper with KMR Quad Rail.
Price will be better on the BCM is my bet. Other specs likely pretty close.
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I suspect a much better price on the BCM... and the BCM seems to have a stronger attachment method.
The main thing that I'm curious about is the rail profile, as the DDM4 is very narrow and quite comfortable, even when covered with Magpul EXTM rail covers. Although, sometimes the DD can be too narrow, making some accessories bump into each other.
Shrillar67
06-11-17, 21:50
I can't buy a rail now for the next build till this comes out, I bet they sell out quick
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hotrodder636
06-12-17, 05:33
This makes my decision for my new upper today tougher...the BCM KMR MLOK, Geiselle or NSR MLOK...so many choices.
It is a good time to be an AR shooter.
I suspect a much better price on the BCM... and the BCM seems to have a stronger attachment method.
The main thing that I'm curious about is the rail profile, as the DDM4 is very narrow and quite comfortable, even when covered with Magpul EXTM rail covers. Although, sometimes the DD can be too narrow, making some accessories bump into each other.
Yeah, i hope BCM makes their quad nice and slim. It would be a damn shame if they rolled out some fat thing. The pictures of the BCM quad make it look like the bottom rail extends down quite a bit further than the bottom rail on the DDM4 rail. hope not.
Yeah, i hope BCM makes their quad nice and slim. It would be a damn shame if they rolled out some fat thing. The pictures of the BCM quad make it look like the bottom rail extends down quite a bit further than the bottom rail on the DDM4 rail. hope not.
It isn't a big fat thing, you are safe.
Shrillar67
06-12-17, 14:38
It isn't a big fat thing, you are safe.
So do we know what price range these are gonna be in?
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So do we know what price range these are gonna be in?
Not I said the little pig.
Shrillar67
06-12-17, 14:49
A pre-order option would be pretty cool
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A pre-order option would be pretty cool
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You can alway e-mail us with what you are after and will notify you when in stock.
C4
justin_247
06-12-17, 19:16
Judging from these photos of the BCM QRF rail on Instagram and Facebook, the rail looks to be about as thin as a LaRue or DD Lite rail (1.9" - 2.1") with a height around the same as a LaRue rail (2.22").
https://www.instagram.com/p/BT6P58xgMAg/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BS14ZGqBDZ0/
https://www.facebook.com/Hotbrass365/photos/a.417666861682776.1073741826.189271541188977/1261652977284156/?type=3&theater
Being that the DD Lite III and the LaRue rails are the most comfortable and round-ish free-float quad rails on the market, I'd say that puts BCM in a pretty good place.
Shrillar67
06-12-17, 22:44
I like DD products but I hope it's more wallet friendly than the DD
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Nobody answered this question from post #179: "Is the MMR going to be aluminum-magnesium like the original KMR or aluminum like the KMR Alpha? Or both? How about 7075-T6?"
I love to see a BCM in 7075-T6 although 6061-T6 would be more cost effective. I've seen 2055 being used in some firearms components too.
Just curious if anyone has any inside on materials. I'm perfectly fine with 6061-T6 BTW.
Nobody answered this question from post #179: "Is the MMR going to be aluminum-magnesium like the original KMR or aluminum like the KMR Alpha? Or both? How about 7075-T6?"
I love to see a BCM in 7075-T6 although 6061-T6 would be more cost effective. I've seen 2055 being used in some firearms components too.
Just curious if anyone has any inside on materials. I'm perfectly fine with 6061-T6 BTW.
Alum 7075.
C4
Aren't the KMR Alphas 6061?
Defaultmp3
06-14-17, 17:58
Aren't the KMR Alphas 6061?According to this post, yes: https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_138/270939_KMR-A-Alpha--NEW-.html#i2767460
Curious if that's a typo from C4IGrant or if the MMR will be one of the rare 7075 handguards.
Press Check
06-20-17, 15:37
Did I miss what length the quad rails will be available in?
Hopefully they offer them in a length that works well with 11.5" and/or 12.5" barrels.. Rail options for those lengths are lacking in comparison to other lengths.
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Alum 7075.
C4
That would be a very nice upgrade! A friend of mine bought a nice 7075 rail (not as well designed as the BCM), and I really like the material used on a rail. Gives the rail a stiffer feeling, subjectively.
I'm sending back the Mk14 (not 7075) I just bought because of fitment issues with the Noveske/MUR upper receiver which I bought specifically for the build I'm doing.
I don't know if I can wait for the BCM Mlok, but as of now I need three.
I don't know if I can wait for the BCM Mlok, but as of now I need three.
They are a good feeling rail. While I understand that is highly subjective, it strikes a good balance of not being too thin and not being too large/ wide. No real change over the keymod, so if you have felt that, you know what you are in for.
Then again, the quad rail feels good to me as well. :D
dramabeats
06-26-17, 18:48
They are a good feeling rail. While I understand that is highly subjective, it strikes a good balance of not being too thin and not being too large/ wide. No real change over the keymod, so if you have felt that, you know what you are in for.
Then again, the quad rail feels good to me as well. :D
When I saw you replied to this thread I thought it would be a picture :(
Press Check
06-26-17, 19:12
They are a good feeling rail. While I understand that is highly subjective, it strikes a good balance of not being too thin and not being too large/ wide. No real change over the keymod, so if you have felt that, you know what you are in for.
Then again, the quad rail feels good to me as well. :D
OD on the MLOK going to be different than its Keymod counterpart, or am I reading this wrong?
They are a good feeling rail. While I understand that is highly subjective, it strikes a good balance of not being too thin and not being too large/ wide. No real change over the keymod, so if you have felt that, you know what you are in for.
Then again, the quad rail feels good to me as well. :D
Stick, can you confirm that they are, indeed, 7075?
They are a good feeling rail. While I understand that is highly subjective, it strikes a good balance of not being too thin and not being too large/ wide. No real change over the keymod, so if you have felt that, you know what you are in for.
Then again, the quad rail feels good to me as well. :D
Yeah, I have two of the original KMRs in the Magnesium-Aluminum blend ;) Now, I need three more rails to finish current builds, and I'd like them in Mlok. Love the KMR size and feel.
sidewaysil80
06-27-17, 18:41
Well, I just sold my 10.5" Upper! Hopefully they produce a complete 11.5" upper with the QRF upper sooner rather than later. While I love the KMR rail and have it on my "gamer" gun, I'm very stoked to see how thin the QRF is and look forward to getting my hands on one!
OD on the MLOK going to be different than its Keymod counterpart, or am I reading this wrong?
Some people will feel a change in the MLOK to Keymod when they grip the rail, or will state they feel a difference. To me, there is no difference. If I gave the illusion of there being different sized widths, you have my apology.
Stick, can you confirm that they are, indeed, 7075?
I have no information on that, sorry.
Any idea on weights on the mlok version?
Any idea on weights on the mlok version?
Should be the same.
C4
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Should be the same.
C4
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Ok I wasn't sure if they would be the same or not.
Question was already answered above.
Stick, can you confirm that they are, indeed, 7075?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170629/96211367d365137bd364b5aa6e513608.png
jerrysimons
06-29-17, 06:29
Question was already answered above.
That is an exciting development!
Do we think these will be a standalone product, sold already installed as a complete upper, or maybe as a complete rifles all at launch?
Do we think these will be a standalone product, sold already installed as a complete upper, or maybe as a complete rifles all at launch?
Why wouldn't they be? The KMR was.
My guess is complete uppers and or rifles, with rails a few months later.
I'm impressed that it's going to be 7075.
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The AR business just seems to be insatiable. Everybody has 10 AR's and yet we anticipate the next great thing with enthusiasm. And yet we still love our old school ponies. Pretty cool to see Bravo step up.
PB
dramabeats
06-30-17, 13:20
Gotta buy the whole upper but the QRF has been released
https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-kyle-defoor-kd4-upper-group-p/bcm-urg-kd4-qrf.htm
sidewaysil80
06-30-17, 13:24
Gotta buy the whole upper but the QRF has been released
https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-kyle-defoor-kd4-upper-group-p/bcm-urg-kd4-qrf.htm
Ughhhh so close, release the 11.5's!!!!!
Is that like a medium contour bbl? ETA: Nevermind. I assume its similar to the 1/8
Gotta buy the whole upper but the QRF has been released
https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-kyle-defoor-kd4-upper-group-p/bcm-urg-kd4-qrf.htm
Where is the comment about not seeing these until next year?
If you think this is the only thing BCM is releasing, or getting ready to release, you are six shades of wrong.
sidewaysil80
06-30-17, 17:49
I'm really looking forward to this product, but considering their track record late 2017 prob means mid 2018.
When I'm wrong I'm wrong :o
When I'm wrong I'm wrong :o
Good sir, that makes you one of the better people on the internet. Have a cold one on me this weekend.
Press Check
07-01-17, 17:56
Where is the comment about not seeing these until next year?
If you think this is the only thing BCM is releasing, or getting ready to release, you are six shades of wrong.
Ok, I was one of the nay-sayers...
Why haven't weight and dimension specs been released yet?
Ok, I was one of the nay-sayers...
Why haven't weight and dimension specs been released yet?
My guess, and it is just a guess, is because they aren't being sold as individual items yet.
I can't decide if I'm more excited about the new rails, or that KD upper itself. Hopefully they offer that upper stripped and with both the MMR/KMR option in the future.
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Ok, I was one of the nay-sayers...
Why haven't weight and dimension specs been released yet?
Because "It weighs less than your wife" wasn't popular with the focus group.
TheMaroonNeck
07-01-17, 23:40
Anyone know who makes bcms 1:7.7 twist barrel? Is it criterion?
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Anyone know who makes bcms 1:7.7 twist barrel? Is it criterion?
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Those who know, don't say. Those who say, don't know.
TheMaroonNeck
07-02-17, 00:31
Those who know, don't say. Those who say, don't know.
Well then, I guess it isn't criterion.
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Moose-Knuckle
07-02-17, 04:19
Don't remember seeing anything in the past twelve pages so . . .
Since they seem to be releasing these new rails this year, anyone heard ANYTHING on the BCM PKMR handguards in various lengths and colors?
The only ones I have seen on guys rifles in the wild are after market pick ups from Saint owners unloading their black midlength PKMRs.
I don't understand the fixation on how much these weigh. Given the similarity in size and profile to the KMR's, can the weight difference matter much if any at all?
Torquetard
07-02-17, 11:46
I don't understand the fixation on how much these weigh. Given the similarity in size and profile to the KMR's, can the weight difference matter much if any at all?
If I cant balance a rifle on the magwell and watch it see saw for 3 hours on its own then it gets sh*tcanned
Press Check
07-02-17, 21:55
I don't understand the fixation on how much these weigh. Given the similarity in size and profile to the KMR's, can the weight difference matter much if any at all?
Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm switching from Magnesium KMR rails to the MMR, and as configured, my BCM Recce is an incredibly well-balanced rifle. The difference between my KMR rail and a KMR-Alpha is 2.3oz. Since MLOK requires more material, if it's 1.7oz or more heavier than the KMR-Alpha, that'd be 1/4lbs added to the front end of my rifle. Not a deal-breaker, but not something I personally look forward to.
Anyway, my query was regarding the weight of the QRF. I saw a few queries regarding the MMR, but missed the fixation.
Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm switching from Magnesium KMR rails to the MMR
Any reason why? I see no reason to switch unless my KMR breaks. I have the rifle fully configured with accessories how I like it. I see no reason to move, it'll just cost more money to get the new rail set up, in probably the exact same configuration I have now with just a different attachment method. That doesn't seem worth it to me until I have a unfixable breakage.
Any rifles I build in the future will probably get the MMR, but that doesn't mean I'll be throwing out all my KMRs in the mean time.
TheMaroonNeck
07-03-17, 11:58
What's strange is Daniel Defense's mlok rail weighs less than their keymod rail.
Their keymod rails kinda look like someone ripped the picitinny from a quadrail. Their mlok rails look slick.
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I agree I do not like their keymod rail at all, the mlok though is one fine piece.
I'm impressed that it's going to be 7075.
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This is mere speculation and very unlikely.
^^^Grant confirmed it a few pages ago.
Moose-Knuckle
07-04-17, 04:23
I don't understand the fixation on how much these weigh. Given the similarity in size and profile to the KMR's, can the weight difference matter much if any at all?
If you go back and check the massive thread about when the KMR-As were announced some lost their heads that the aluminum KMR weighs a c**t hair more than the magnesium alloy KMR. One of the BCM guys posted on this site that according to their testing they tip the hat to strength to the aluminum KMRs.
I'll take a couple of ounces for that alone.
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