View Full Version : Beretta APX
http://www.beretta.com/en-us/win-the-fight/
I have handled this gun (not fired it). Depending on price, I think it will be a winner.
C4
That does look very interesting. Any idea on release date Grant?
That does look very interesting. Any idea on release date Grant?
LE should be in March I think. Commercial should be in April.
C4
dwhitehorne
02-28-17, 14:04
I wish Beretta was a year earlier on this. I really wanted to try one out for our departments pistol eval. It seems like the only true modular competition to Sig but Sig has now gotten the big contracts. David
call_me_ski
02-28-17, 14:48
http://www.beretta.com/en-us/win-the-fight/
I have handled this gun (not fired it). Depending on price, I think it will be a winner.
C4
I just saw the sell sheet. Price should be the same as the Sig 320. After market frames are within 2 dollars of the Sig 320 and mags should be cheaper for the Beretta.
Haven't had one in the hand yet but I have been more excited about this one than the 320 or the SW M2.0. Although I will probably stick with my Glocks.
It was strange. They announced it over a year ago...and then nothing. Started popping up on YouTube a few months ago. The modularity is awesome. Wonder what the trigger is like. Why did beretta not have a threaded barrel version ready to go?
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It was strange. They announced it over a year ago...and then nothing. Started popping up on YouTube a few months ago. The modularity is awesome. Wonder what the trigger is like. Why did beretta not have a threaded barrel version ready to go?
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Trigger is nice.
C4
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Sig p320 nice or PPQ nice?
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I love the fact that Sig and Beretta are innovating and producing inexpensive and highly functional handguns, however, unless they offer a grip frame with the same size and concealability as a Glock 19 I'm still not likely to buy one. I will be watching this to see what grip frames Beretta offers in the future.
Sig p320 nice or PPQ nice?
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More on the PPQ side.
C4
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Grant what is the "striker deactivator" mentioned on the diagrammed spec sheet?
Mysteryman
03-01-17, 07:02
Single action or double?
MM
I love the fact that Sig and Beretta are innovating and producing inexpensive and highly functional handguns, however, unless they offer a grip frame with the same size and concealability as a Glock 19 I'm still not likely to buy one. I will be watching this to see what grip frames Beretta offers in the future.
Same here, Right now, I'm looking at a CZ P-10 as a replacement for my g19....
Another plastic striker fired gun, where's the phased- plasma rifle in the 40-watt range, its 2017 already
Another plastic striker fired gun, where's the phased- plasma rifle in the 40-watt range, its 2017 already
Hey, just what you see, pal.
call_me_ski
03-01-17, 08:29
Grant what is the "striker deactivator" mentioned on the diagrammed spec sheet?
It is a button that de-cocks the striker during disassembly so that they trigger doesn't need to be pulled. It allows you to drop the striker and remove the slide without disengaging the automatic firing pin block like pulling the trigger. Just an extra level of idiot proofing that is demanded by some institutions. One that is a little bit more convenient than the yellow lever in the M&P. If you don't care for it, just drive on and pull the trigger like you would a glock.
It is a button that de-cocks the striker during disassembly so that they trigger doesn't need to be pulled. It allows you to drop the striker and remove the slide without disengaging the automatic firing pin block like pulling the trigger. Just an extra level of idiot proofing that is demanded by some institutions. One that is a little bit more convenient than the yellow lever in the M&P. If you don't care for it, just drive on and pull the trigger like you would a glock.
Thanks ski.
ramairthree
03-01-17, 12:20
Thank you for the information.
About a year ago I was typing about this gun on a board and said a mediocre trigger will kill it.
It will have to have a great trigger to generate any interest.
And even if it does it had better be ready to go with holsters, sights, parts, etc.
The usual Beretta non standard sights, extra expensive parts, never in stock, with no factory support and no aftermarket would make it DOA.
They have not had a successful pistol line since the 92.
The 90 Two was a failure.
The Cougar failed to capture a market.
The 9000 a dismal failure.
The PX series is a drunk fat chick at the prom desperate for over a decade to get in anyone's backseat.
I hope they have it right with this one.
As with the Cougar and PX, non 92 mag compatibility will cost them some interest.
Their metal DA SA market has gone to CZ because they have not made the offerings in their 92 platform.
There never has been a big market for polymer framed hammer fired guns like the PX.
Those that buy guns because they are the military ones will get the SIG.
The polymer striker market is saturated.
There are already some fantastic guns that have little market share in this segment.
It has a tough row to hoe.
Thank you gain for the information on it.
I plan to buy one,
Evel Baldgui
03-01-17, 13:15
Looks quite interesting, will probably pick one up just because... if I don't like it after a few weeks, just trade it for the new flavor of the month to play with. Meanwhile, the g19 stays safe in its holster :-)
Dang, ramairthree answered my question, it would have been nice if it used 92 mags, I have lots of 'em. I have lots of P30 mags and no P30, looks like a VP9 for me, someday.
brickboy240
03-01-17, 15:38
Its about time!
Now...where is the 45ACP version?
(you knew this question was coming)
God, that is probably the most hideous pistol I've seen. Hopefully its function is tenfold what its form is.
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44232
C4
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call_me_ski
03-01-17, 19:59
what is that? A picture for ants?
Any idea of a street price?
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Any idea of a street price?
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525ish
call_me_ski
03-01-17, 23:18
525 is MAP so that is the lowest you will see them advertised outside of stores.
That new Beretta pistol intrigues me.
ramairthree
03-02-17, 00:41
Dang, ramairthree answered my question, it would have been nice if it used 92 mags, I have lots of 'em. I have lots of P30 mags and no P30, looks like a VP9 for me, someday.
I think that is what killed the Cougar.
Same manual of arms as the 92, but different mag hole location.
The 92 suffers from a massive trigger guard that drives the mag release pretty far down the grip.
On the compact version, you only get about 1/4 less grip.
This uses the same hammer strut and spring as the full.
To get the grip shorter would require a new sized strut and spring. But even if they did that, you can't grasp it.
They really need a new 92 frame with a smaller trigger guard. They would have to offset the mag release internally, just like if they had kept the mag hole in the same place on the Cougar.
I don't think they wanted to mess with doing that, so the Cougar ended up with the hole higher on the mags and no compatibility. and PX4 mags they did totally different, not even compatible with the Cougar. I doubt they kept APX compatibility with the PX even.
So, as far as grip is concerned, on the 92 series,
The 92C allows the same hammer strut and spring as the full sized.
You can't get a shorter grip on a 92 until the design a new strut, etc.
Once that piece of engineering is done, and they go to make the grip shorter,
You now can't hold the gun.
They have to make the trigger guard not take up the whole front of the grip. When they make the trigger guard smaller, and move up the mag release button, they have to offset it internally to use the same mags/ mag hole location.
To my knowledge they have never done either.
Then we have the matter of barrel length.
We know how short you can get a barrel on the Cougar, the PX series, a compact CZ, the RAMI, a Smith 6904, etc.
But how short can we get the 92 barrel and work?
People wanted a 92 the size of the Cougar, the mid sized Cougar especially, and the mini Cougar.
Anyways, people would have loved the Cougar they had done the offset internal portion of the mag release and it used 92 mags. I think the PX4 would have gotten a little more attention if they had done the same.
The 9000 was supposed to be 92 mag compatible, but they really were a little different sized. And had a different manual of arms and some other issues.
525 is MAP so that is the lowest you will see them advertised outside of stores.
Botach had preorders for that.
Thanks for the explanation, it makes sense from a design standpoint but I like the large trigger guard of the 92. In general I like large trigger guards for use with gloves. Presently I don't have a double stack pistol, when I do get one it's going to use magazines I already have. Beretta 92, HK P30, CZ 75, P-0X series, SIG P-series. I think that gives me options.
brickboy240
03-02-17, 09:52
The problem with the 92F is the awkward safety located way up on the slide.
The other problem with the 92 is that it is possible to power stroke it after inserting a new mag and have it send the slide home and it be on safety and de-cocked. Very easy to mash the safety down when power-stroking the slide on the 92.
For those two reasons...I never warmed up to the 92.
The problem with the 92F is the awkward safety located way up on the slide.
The other problem with the 92 is that it is possible to power stroke it after inserting a new mag and have it send the slide home and it be on safety and de-cocked. Very easy to mash the safety down when power-stroking the slide on the 92.
For those two reasons...I never warmed up to the 92.
I understand your issues with the M9. My largish hands had no problem using the slide catch as a release or manipulating the safety.
ramairthree
03-02-17, 12:15
I don't find the slide mounted safety and issue.
Works fine on the third gen smiths, etc.
Everyone wants a frame mounted safety because 1911.
Most other guns with frame mounted safeties are much more awkward.
Any gun can auto forward with vigorous mag changes, especially when well broken in. Not a 92 specific issue.
Yes, the large trigger guard was intended for gloves. It was well meaning. As was the indestructible front sight that can't come off.
However, in current times these are not all that popular.
People want to be able to pick and change their front sight.
People like an integrated platform with mag compatibility allowing them to have a plus sized game gun, tactical light and suppressor host, service pistol, compact, and subcompact choices. Beretta has never developed an actual compact, let alone subcompact version of the 92 upper. And the trigger guard vertical use of grip space and mag release position do not allow usable reduction in grip size
I don't find the slide mounted safety and issue.
Works fine on the third gen smiths, etc.
Everyone wants a frame mounted safety because 1911.
Notice Beretta is the only one clinging to the absurd slide mount safety?
M&P - frame mount
Sig - frame mount
H&K - frame mount
CZ - frame mount
Miss the safety on a frame mount and you just shift your grip to hit it again (maybe even just raise your thumb, depending on the gun and safety design). Miss it on a slide mount and you're completely breaking grip with one hand to hit it again. It's less intuitive, more complicated to actuate, and requires more levers to coordinate the slide-to-frame actions than a frame only safety.
There's a reason there aren't other companies using them. It's probably even more standardized than mag releases. Remember the 92 originally had a frame safety.
ramairthree
03-02-17, 18:11
I am not saying it is ideal.
I am saying there are many models with frame mounted safeties that ergonomically jacked up compared to the 1911.
In fact, I find Taurus / Beretta 92 frame mounted safeties less than ideal.
The Beretta 9000 is an example of an abortion of a frame mounted safety.
The Beretta PX4 is an example of a slide mounted safety less ergonomic than the 92.
Other examples are safety touching slide release, safety being engaged during firing if you shoot thumbs down, safety not ammenable to a good grip firing thumb up, etc.
My point is there are examples of frame mounted safeties that are a cluster compared to the slide mounted safety of the beretta or third gen smith.
An overall greater point is that Beretta has not evolved the 92 platform.
Unless you count the 90-Two where most of the effort went in wrong directions.
In there development of new platforms,
They have strung together multiple failures, seemingly not taking account of previous failures.
I genuinely hope the APX would be a culmination of taking what they have done right,
And learning from what they have done wrong.
Edit-
Meant to start off with
I would love to see an ergonomic slide mounted 92 safety decocker.
While not all that ergonomic, the Taurus 92 has long had a cocked and locked single action safety and da/SA decocker on their frame.
brickboy240
03-03-17, 09:19
Lets pray that Beretta gets this pistol right. After the 9000 and PX4, they really need to score with this one.
Odd how a company that gets their shotguns so right, can have such a bizarre and unappealing auto pistol line up. Other than the 92/96 pistols...their handgun line is the Isle of Misfit Toys! LOL
ramairthree
03-03-17, 10:31
Botach had preorders for that.
Botach will take preorders on surplus laser door guns from the space shuttle program.
At the best pice if they think they can make a dollar on it.
In a year you will either get no gun and a hassle refunding, the wrong gun and a hassle returning, or actually get the gun.
ramairthree
03-03-17, 10:40
Lets pray that Beretta gets this pistol right. After the 9000 and PX4, they really need to score with this one.
Odd how a company that gets their shotguns so right, can have such a bizarre and unappealing auto pistol line up. Other than the 92/96 pistols...their handgun line is the Isle of Misfit Toys! LOL
depends on what kind of shotgun you are talking about.
Regarding SA tactical ones ones,
They have already had the 1201 and TX4 in a pretty short period to get to the 1301
Botach will take preorders on surplus laser door guns from the space shuttle program.
At the best pice if they think they can make a dollar on it.
In a year you will either get no gun and a hassle refunding, the wrong gun and a hassle returning, or actually get the gun.
Ok then.
Sportsmans outdoor superstore. Pre orders 525$. Have bought from them multiple times, never had a issue
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davidjinks
03-04-17, 17:44
IMHO Beretta should have stuck with the M9/92/96 series and the PX series.
http://www.beretta.com/en-us/win-the-fight/
I have handled this gun (not fired it). Depending on price, I think it will be a winner.
C4
ramairthree
03-05-17, 00:52
Anything more specific?
I also felt the 92 series left a lot on the table in terms of not evolving further.
I felt the effort wasted on the PX would have been better spent making polymer frames for the 92 upper.
davidjinks
03-05-17, 07:27
Ergonomics, safety, trigger, weight, slide profile, recoil.
EDITED TO ADD: My honest opinion; the Army should have accepted the M9A3 and tweaked the design to allow a frame mounted safety. 90%+ parts would have been usable across the board, that particular design would have alleviated the issue with small hands and the familiarity with the weapon itself wouldn't be compromised.
We don't need polymer guns. We need more training.
Anything more specific?
I also felt the 92 series left a lot on the table in terms of not evolving further.
I felt the effort wasted on the PX would have been better spent making polymer frames for the 92 upper.
Beretta can have the occasional misfire even with the 92 series. Remember the 90Two? I think it was only on the market for a couple years before it was dropped. Personally, I kind of liked the styling but apparently most folks didn't.
MAC reviews:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17h2thnorEM
. Beretta has never developed an actual compact, let alone subcompact version of the 92 upper.
Well, there is the Beretta Cheetah. Just like a 92 but with a 1911 style frame mounted ambi decocker/safety. (Up for safe/decock, down for fire in 1911 location)
Otherwise it's a 24 oz mini-92 with a better trigger. 12+1 .32 or 13+1 .380.
Love my Cheetah and carry it often. Runs smooth and flawlessly.
Bayoublaster
03-08-17, 10:50
Lets pray that Beretta gets this pistol right. After the 9000 and PX4, they really need to score with this one.
Odd how a company that gets their shotguns so right, can have such a bizarre and unappealing auto pistol line up. Other than the 92/96 pistols...their handgun line is the Isle of Misfit Toys! LOL
I hated the 9000. I like my PX4 though. I'm going to sell it because it's a .40 and I'm cutting down on calibers. Buying it in .40 was my only regret. I hope the APX is a success. The design looks nice.
Is the APX single action like the Sig? (320?)
We have these guns in stock, spare frames (in colors), mags (17rd and 21rd) as well.
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=BERE
APX, frames and mags are up on the website now!
C4
Evel Baldgui
04-20-17, 13:01
The APX looks ok, nothing exemplary, would rather have a VP9, CZ, or Walther, over this one. To each his own.
The APX looks ok, nothing exemplary, would rather have a VP9, CZ, or Walther, over this one. To each his own.
The new CZ does have a lot going for it, but you cannot change frames out and will most likely be rare/hard to get for some time. The VP9/PPW is more money, no frame change either. All of these guns a good though (no question).
C4
I stopped in Grant's shop yesterday and looked at the APX.. There were some things I liked about it and some I did'nt
Likes;
Field stripping it showed that it looked very well made it came apart easily and reassembled just as easily. The sights were'nt bad, good sight picture. Although I'm sure most people will at some point change them out, still,with both being dovetailed into the slide, changing them out should be easy.
The trigger was'nt bad at all, very useable right out of the box, It also looked to me that changing frames out should be easy, I agree with Grant, the switchable frame thing is probably going to be the way of the future. The grasping grooves on the slide while looking ugly DO work, you should be able to get a grip on that slide no matter what.
Dislikes;
The mags, as everyone knows the APX mags fit only a APX, why Beretta did'nt design the APX to use 92 mags, or possibly PX4 mags I don't know, that and the mags themselves come with a nice shiny,blued finish, which if you were carrying this thing IWB, and carrying a reload, it'd just just a short amount of time before the mag carried as a reload starts rusting, unless you keep it waxed, or oiled up, stainless, or eletroless nickel would be a better choice.
I also did'nt like the angled cut on the front of the slide, again I don't know the reason for that, but I think it was unneeded.
When the trigger is pulled some little round thing comes up through the top of the slide, I'm guessing that this is the firing pin saftey, IMO, I think this popping up through the slide was unnecessary, and if one wanted to mount a RDS on it, It just got a whole lot harder because of that.Those are just minor bitches, and nothing that could'nt be overcome, as it is, it's a g17 sized pistol, It'll be interesting to see what the compact frame would look like. I'm sure these will sell well, Grant has a attractive price on it. Myself, I'm holding out for the P-10c......
Fuzzy-Reticle
04-20-17, 21:00
I handled one today also. I wanted to hate it from the pictures I saw of it beforehand. It's actually a nice looking and feeling pistol. The trigger is different than any striker fired pistol I've tried before. Not bad mind you, just different. I'd actually call it an excellent trigger with a short reset. The odd plunger thingy that pops up is just weird but I could get use to it. I'm still holding out for the Cz. The APX definitely wouldn't suck to own and I am tempted to get one.
Evel Baldgui
04-21-17, 13:18
The new CZ does have a lot going for it, but you cannot change frames out and will most likely be rare/hard to get for some time. The VP9/PPW is more money, no frame change either. All of these guns a good though (no question).
C4
After reading this thread, drove past 'shooters world', popped in and handled the apx and it did strike my interest, however, will wait for the CZ.
Supposed to be on display in the Beretta booth at NRA. I'm not saying its THE solution to the striker block "pop-up", but is A solution...
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq169/bbossman1/apx%20mount_zpsgcakzt7u.jpg
I got one yesterday. Got a green frame with it and the competition type belt holster. It actually shoots pretty dang good. Only issue was ejection with Federal Champion brass and aluminum ammo was not very strong. Reliability was 100%, but the cases were falling right at your feet. The high quality colored frames are a fantastic marketing win for Beretta, I usually don't fall for stuff like this, but the temptation to buy one of each color is very strong.
If you've got small hands, the small size insert will work very well.
I started out thinking 'whatever' about this pistol, and ended up owning one... Maybe two.
I'm hoping a long slide version and a compact model are soon to follow.
I'm waiting for the P-10c also, but will be shooting the APX till it gets here!
CanineCombatives
05-12-17, 14:16
Just a little update, I had no real reason to test the waters with the APX other than to be up to speed on what could end up a serious player as an LE duty piece, I'm already waiting on a P-10 which will never make any real LE inroads but that aside, I had heard enough about the APX from the right folks that I decided to get some time behind one, so I grabbed one and ran a quick 400rds at my local spot to see for myself, short and sweet I am really surprised how good this thing is, you can talk about the funky looks or the slide width or anything else you want, this thing just flat out works very very well, the ergos flat out work, the trigger might just be the best in the category, it's way more accurate than it needs to be, it's dead reliable, you can run it blindfolded because everything is exactly where it should be and operates seemlessly.
I'm going to grab one and see where things lead, there is irony in the air though, it took damn near a quarter century of glock domination until the industry spit out a legit alternative as a duty rig, but now that ship has sailed and the P320 is established, beretta steps up with a very compelling design, I need more time behind one before I start comparing them but right now it seems clear the APX is a lot more tactilely and ergonomically friendly than the 320 right out of the box, bottom line if you've overlooked this thing because you think it looks funky your wrong.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-13-17, 09:51
Is this related to the Arsenal Strike Fire? That was being made in Italy I thought. Sure seems to have a striking resemblance.
Are 10rd mags available for this?
Are 10rd mags available for this?
Yes and we stock them.
C4
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