View Full Version : More bad news from Colt?
edit: nm
link is pretty sensationalized and posts at 1911forum bebunk some of it.
just another doom/gloom blog post that isn't complete.
sorry for the clutter. close/let die etc
This is hardly a shocker. Colt largely abandoned the civilian handgun market back in the 90's and their attempts to regain the market look clumsy to my uneducated eyes. Much like the AR hobby, for those of us in the Cowboy Action Shooting hobby, the 1873 SAA/Peacemaker is the gold standard. However, regular production ceased long ago and it takes at least 2 years and $1500 to get a SAA from the Colt Custom Shop. Since Uberti's slicked up competition-ready models like the Smoke Wagon and the El Patron cost less than $700, a real Colt has become a tiny niche market. You have to pay in advance to get a real Colt SAA, so if the Colt Custom Shop really is gutted, I'm glad I'm not on the waiting list...
It was a link to a post on the firearm blog. It was news to me about Brent's layoff but after posting the link the article annoyed me with a bit of its un-cited speculation.
Brent confirmed over at 1911forums that he is no longer with Colt, but others allege that the custom shop is still open for business.
Not sure I'd want to send them a gun now tho...
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/03/03/breaking-colt-lays-off-custom-shop-director-employees-company-rumored-gutted/
It was a link to a post on the firearm blog. It was news to me about Brent's layoff but after posting the link the article annoyed me with a bit of its un-cited speculation.
Brent confirmed over at 1911forums that he is no longer with Colt, but others allege that the custom shop is still open for business.
Not sure I'd want to send them a gun now tho...
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/03/03/breaking-colt-lays-off-custom-shop-director-employees-company-rumored-gutted/
Thanks.
Perhaps Grant can chime in on this. I know he has a good relationship with Colt.
Colt needs to restructure, and probably needs to move to a new state and rebuild with non-union employees. Cutting certain persons from their payroll is nothing new, nor is it with any company.
I have no doubt there are a lot of state governors who would love to give a tax break, incentives, and a warm pro military welcome to Colt.
This is hardly a shocker. Colt largely abandoned the civilian handgun market back in the 90's and their attempts to regain the market look clumsy to my uneducated eyes. Much like the AR hobby, for those of us in the Cowboy Action Shooting hobby, the 1873 SAA/Peacemaker is the gold standard. However, regular production ceased long ago and it takes at least 2 years and $1500 to get a SAA from the Colt Custom Shop. Since Uberti's slicked up competition-ready models like the Smoke Wagon and the El Patron cost less than $700, a real Colt has become a tiny niche market. You have to pay in advance to get a real Colt SAA, so if the Colt Custom Shop really is gutted, I'm glad I'm not on the waiting list...
So my Gen 1 Colt SAA .45LC 7.5" "Rubber Blue" with factory box is a keeper? :smile:
44250
44251
So my Gen 1 Colt SAA .45LC 7.5" "Rubber Blue" with factory box is a keeper? :smile:
44250
44251
The box is in tatters, so it's obviously not worth squat. I'll give you a couple of hundred for it. :dance3:
Seriously, that is a thing of beauty! :smile:
Beat Trash
03-03-17, 16:11
I have no doubt there are a lot of state governors who would love to give a tax break, incentives, and a warm pro military welcome to Colt.
I would love to see a Colt that said, "Made in Texas" on the side...
The box is in tatters, so it's obviously not worth squat. I'll give you a couple of hundred for it. :dance3:
Seriously, that is a thing of beauty! :smile:
Yes the box is damaged because I was a dumb ass kid, it was pristine. My grandfather owned a hardware store in upstate NY on Lake George, he gave this to my dad new when he was sixteen, and then down to me. I will pass it down to my daughter when the time comes, this and a Nickel Steel Winchester Model 94 30/30 among others.
@Sigfever: Lake George, huh?! Amazing! If it weren't for the horrendous politics of the region, I would be typing this message from somewhere in the Lake George/Lake Champlain/Richelieu corridor. Breathtaking country + the most engrossing history in North America.
Nice Colt, by the by. ;)
Thanks.
Perhaps Grant can chime in on this. I know he has a good relationship with Colt.
Nothing to worry about. Some disgruntled employees were let go and some union employees down sized.
C4
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
@Sigfever: Lake George, huh?! Amazing! If it weren't for the horrendous politics of the region, I would be typing this message from somewhere in the Lake George/Lake Champlain/Richelieu corridor. Breathtaking country + the most engrossing history in North America.
Nice Colt, by the by. ;)
Bolton Landing, thank you sir.
It is absolutley amazing how bad the reporting at TFB has gotten. The article doesn't even bother looking for the facts and has turned into a bash Colt fest.
It is absolutley amazing how bad the reporting at TFB has gotten. The article doesn't even bother looking for the facts and has turned into a bash Colt fest.
Not sure they are interested in "reporting". They are a feed site and need to out out as much info as possible.
Nothing to worry about. Some disgruntled employees were let go and some union employees down sized.
C4
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Which group is Brent being lumped in?
Torquetard
03-03-17, 20:55
a few weeks from now: A glowing review of the colt CCU from TFB
I just purchased 15 Colt's after hearing the news. The crash is coming any day now......
Coal Dragger
03-03-17, 21:14
I just purchased 15 Colt's after hearing the news. The crash is coming any day now......
You really think they're going tits up?
I just purchased 15 Colt's after hearing the news. The crash is coming any day now......
You really think they're going tits up?
God dammit.... Can't the gun community catch a break...
I was being facetious.
Well then, the nuances of the interweb alluded me on that one..
Carry on
A bit of conjecture at this point, but I hardly view the article as a hit piece. I did find something interesting that might lend credence to the theory that this is more than just Colt letting-go of few problematic employees. The article mentions two entities/departments which are rumored to have been completely axed; naming Advanced Systems and Custom Shop. I visited the Pages associated with each division, and both seem to indicate operations have ceased. Coincidence? Certainly could be. Indicator that confirms the article? Possibly.
So, I decided to find the last archive for each of the respective pages. The most recent archival, via the Wayback machine, was logged at the end of January. What's intriguing is that, in January, both pages indicated that each entity was operational. So, less than a month ago one could hit up their Custom Shop for some work. On the other hand, I'm not entirely certain of what comprises Colt Advanced Systems. The current page takes one to a login screen, while the archived version feeds to info on the 6940 (Advanced Carbine). I was still able to find the 6940 under the models section on their current website. So, not really knowing what Advanced Systems entails, and the fact that the 6940 is now listed elsewhere, makes the "current vs. archive" discrepancy not nearly as noteworthy. Yet, combined with Custom Shop page update, it's still interesting.
Custom Shop Current (top) vs Archive (bottom)
http://www.colt.com/Customer-Services/Colt-Custom/Design-Your-Own
https://web.archive.org/web/20170128230856/http://www.colt.com/Customer-Services/Colt-Custom/Design-Your-Own
Advanced Systems Current (top) vs Archive (bottom)
http://www.colt.com/Login?returnurl=%2fCatalog%2fLaw-Enforcement%2fProducts%2fColt-Advanced-Piston-System
https://web.archive.org/web/20170128231302/http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Law-Enforcement/Products/Colt-Advanced-Piston-System
Ultimately, none of this would be all that surprising. If true, Colt needs to do more than just restructure. That's been tried and bungled on a number of occasions. What they need to do is restructure, the right way. Sure they're an American icon, but that doesn't mean they've been immune to some serious blunders. They've relied upon .gov contracts and have often been indifferent to the civilian market. They've been reckless with finances. They've even had high-level executives who supported requiring civilians obtain firearm permits from the government. But it really all comes back to resting on their laurels.
It's kind of ironic. After the election, there was a thread about over-saturation in the AR market. Some suggested that we'd see the "bottom feeders" fall by the wayside. I'm sure that'll happen to some, but a mfg falling into the "top tier" won't be enough, alone, to make them any less susceptible to failure.
You really think they're going tits up?
IG speaking sarcasm as only a true bilingual could.
I have no insight into the inner workings at Colt or what went on with Brent, but I do know he was a stand up guy who helped a lot of folks on the 1911 forum. On several oocasions he helped me source Colt factory parts that seemed to be on perpetual back order at Brownells, a few NOS discontinued parts and even some AR parts.
He will be missed...
I have no insight into the inner workings at Colt or what went on with Brent, but I do know he was a stand up guy who helped a lot of folks on the 1911 forum. On several oocasions he helped me source Colt factory parts that seemed to be on perpetual back order at Brownells, a few NOS discontinued parts and even some AR parts.
He will be missed...
I never dealt with him directly, but I do remember him as being a much needed voice for the company on various other forum sites beyond just the 1911 forum. I don't know if he ever did it in an official capacity (I don't think it was), but he helped out a lot of community memebers with service issues and product questions. I think many companies don't realize how valuable it is to have a representative participate in websites like these.
Beat Trash
03-04-17, 08:45
Nothing to worry about. Some disgruntled employees were let go and some union employees down sized.
That's good to hear.
I never dealt with him directly, but I do remember him as being a much needed voice for the company on various other forum sites beyond just the 1911 forum. I don't know if he ever did it in an official capacity (I don't think it was), but he helped out a lot of community memebers with service issues and product questions. I think many companies don't realize how valuable it is to have a representative participate in websites like these.
Me neither, but he helped a lot of folks out on the 1911 Forum, and Colt Forum, and probably others as well.
Colt needs to follow Beretta's foot steps. Texas or any other right-to-work state would love to have them.
Renegade04
03-04-17, 12:07
Here is a good video for you guys to watch. Very informative. It will give you some insight to Colt's mindset and practices.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk_TxE1d9HY
Here is a good video for you guys to watch. Very informative. It will give you some insight to Colt's mindset and practices.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk_TxE1d9HY
Definitely an interesting video. I wish he'd have spent more time on their modern history. Although, I'm not sure there is much more to discuss in that regard. As he points out, they haven't done much in terms of innovation over the past decade or two. The only major developments have been less about firearms and more about finances and corporate structure.
Maybe I missed it, but did he mention Colt's split in the early 2000s? In particular, I recall hearing that when they split into two entities (Colt Mfg and Colt Defense), each continued production out of the same factory. Simply installing a fence to separate the two. What I wonder is, was this done because of bad blood? Or, was it just easier on logistics?
Of all the blunders and perplexing decisions, for me, one stands out above the rest. During that same timeframe, in order for Colt Defense to sell to civilians, they first had to sell their rifles to Colt Manufacturing. It's almost like they licensed their own brand to themselves. I'm not sure how anyone would have thought that would end well. Coupled with the fence, and an eventual suit between the two entities, it certainly seems that things were not quite amicable. Eventually they merged back together, in what was essentially another example of Colt moving money from one pocket to another.
It's honesty surprising that Colt's made it this far. Often people will point to the unions when explaining Colt's troubles. There's no doubt that has played a role. However, what's been more critical is that the Brand has basically been used by different investors to make a quick buck for themselves; bleeding the company dry in the process. Their saving grace has always been the government contracts. With that fatted calf having been recently slayed, it's no shock that they could be facing some financial challenges. It certainly doesn't help that they're competing in a soft and saturated civilian market. A market that they've not really done much to court in the past. They do have a loyal following, but that alone may not necessarily be enough.
I'm not sure we'd ever see the Colt name disappear. That's really where their value lies. Odds are, they'll continue to get passed around between investors. Maybe not right now, with this alleged development. But it almost seems inevitable.
Colt needs to follow Beretta's foot steps. Texas or any other right-to-work state would love to have them.
Moving to another state won't allow Colt to escape the corporate raiders who have run the company for half a century or more.
wetidlerjr
03-04-17, 17:46
...It's honesty surprising that Colt's made it this far. Often people will point to the unions when explaining Colt's troubles. There's no doubt that has played a role. However, what's been more critical is that the Brand has basically been used by different investors to make a quick buck for themselves; bleeding the company dry in the process...
Moving to another state won't allow Colt to escape the corporate raiders who have run the company for half a century or more.
The "long and the short" of it. The union is a LOT less of a factor than corporate greed.
Now is the time to grab a "Colt Defense" rifle. Without an infusion of some capital for R&D, there may not be many more "defense" contracts available.
Here is a good video for you guys to watch. Very informative. It will give you some insight to Colt's mindset and practices.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk_TxE1d9HY
Thank you sir, excellent video and very informative.
Thank you for not turning Colt in to a union bashing thread. Just the facts.
Eurodriver
03-05-17, 08:32
Now is the time to grab a "Colt Defense" rifle. Without an infusion of some capital for R&D, there may not be many more "defense" contracts available.
While I doubt that is likely, we must always remember December!
While I doubt that is likely, we must always remember December!
December12' ?
Eurodriver
03-05-17, 08:57
December12' ?
No doubt.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/7/the-keefe-report-hey-chicken-little-colt-isnt-falling/
C4
Good read, they just need to move to a gun friendly state that allows them to ditch the heavy burden of the union.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/7/the-keefe-report-hey-chicken-little-colt-isnt-falling/
C4
Sounds like Brent was let go for cause. Closing the books until they work through the backlog is a good thing. This assumes it's a reasonably short period of time.
Sounds like Brent was let go for cause.
Curious where you came about that info? It sure wasn't in the linked article.
Curious where you came about that info? It sure wasn't in the linked article.
Re-read the article again. Note: "custom shop is one of the most profitable areas for Colt". Why would they make a change?
Certainly not "backlog" issues. Those can be corrected.
Re-read the article again. Note: "custom shop is one of the most profitable areas for Colt". Why would they make a change?
Certainly not "backlog" issues. Those can be corrected.
I've read the article. It says nothing about firing anyone for cause. Maybe he was fired for cause but there are several reasons Colt could have eliminated that position in the process of "rightsizing". Sounds like one person is going the wear multiple management hats. First thing that comes to mind is why carry the payroll liability on a non-smith if you're closing the order pipeline in the custom shop. He might have been offered and declined a different role within the company at less money and was shown the door. Many possible scenarios.
I've read the article. It says nothing about firing anyone for cause. Maybe he was fired for cause but there are several reasons Colt could have eliminated that position in the process of "rightsizing". Sounds like one person is going the wear multiple management hats. First thing that comes to mind is why carry the payroll liability on a non-smith if you're closing the order pipeline in the custom shop. He might have been offered and declined a different role within the company at less money and was shown the door. Many possible scenarios.
My thought process was..why let someone go who's a supervisor over a profitable division. They're not "permanently closing the order pipeline". It appears they're following SACS lead in getting caught up on the backlog.
I do agree that the article in and of itself doesn't provide any facts.
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