View Full Version : Any pilots?
I am currently on my way to getting my private pilots license. My dad has his pilots license and we have owned a few planes over the years but never flew them himself. Since he has come down with Parkinson's, he has sold his airplanes and I decided I would try getting my license and maybe buy an airplane in the next couple of years. Just wondering if any of our members were pilots/aircraft owners.
I have my private pilot lisences, single engine land but I haven't flown in a very long time. I was in the middle of getting my IFT rating but life got in the way. My gf (at the time) and bought a condo, then got engaged and got married, then she stopped working and went back to school so I just didn't have the money to fly. Between the racecar and the guns/training, something had to get left behind.
It makes me really sad. I miss it. She will be graduating in May and as soon as she gets a job I'm getting my medical, taking a bi-annual and getting back in the air. It's just too much fun.
Never owned an airplane. Always rented 152s or 172s. Flew a twin Seminole once, had some time in a Pitts S2B and a Lanceair something.
Learned how to fly 27 years ago when I was in my former career. I built my hours then quit my last job to work in the airlines. I'm a Trans-Pac widebody (boring) pilot now.
I only have just a few hours of ground school and a couple hours of flying. Right now, I'm learning how to use a E6-B and a plotter. I'm getting ahead of myself and getting distracted by watching You Tube videos on the Garmin G1000. Why do I have to do all the work when a computer can do it for me?
It makes me really sad. I miss it. She will be graduating in May and as soon as she gets a job I'm getting my medical, taking a bi-annual and getting back in the air. It's just too much fun.
Check out a "rusty pilot" seminar. I happened to stumble across one a few months back and it seemed to be very well setup for getting people back into the air.
I'm a former airline pilot, reformed cargo driver, ex chief pilot, and current corporate driver. Currently transitioning from a Phenom 300 to a Falcon 900C. Owned a 1971 Arrow for about 5 years, shared a Saratoga before that, and a Cherokee before that.
I fly a small plane from time to time for work.
Yes / No. I've been flying for almost 27 years. Retired USAF Herc driver, current airline captain flying 737s.
I fly a small plane from time to time for work.
Lies. That's what I do. You fly the shiney ones.
I only have just a few hours of ground school and a couple hours of flying. Right now, I'm learning how to use a E6-B and a plotter. I'm getting ahead of myself and getting distracted by watching You Tube videos on the Garmin G1000. Why do I have to do all the work when a computer can do it for me?
Since you're watching YT videos, check out the NTSB crash recreation videos, especially the ones involving pilot error when programming navigation aids causing them to crash into shit... like the ground.
Since you're watching YT videos, check out the NTSB crash recreation videos, especially the ones involving pilot error when programming navigation aids causing them to crash into shit... like the ground.
Knowledge...LOL...
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I got my PPL (certificate actually) in 1994, been flying mostly recreationally, but sometimes to get to work meetings. I bought a Cherokee, then sold it after a few years, and bought a 1978 Grumman AA5B Tiger in 2000, and have owned it ever since. Maintenance, overhauls, and avionics can eat you alive in our older GA aircraft, not to mention 100LL costs, hangar rent, insurance...... :) Although my airplane insurance is less than for my cars.
Lies. That's what I do. You fly the shiney ones.
The ones in ANC are not all that shiny. We had to have maintenance clean the windows 2 weeks ago...
Pilot for about 15 years now. Multi/Commercial/Instrument most fixed wing but some roto-wing thrown in. Where in DFW are you getting your rating?
Eurodriver
03-04-17, 09:38
What kind of $$$ and time are we talking to
A) Get a license
B) Own a plane (we'll assume a small single engine that seats 4)
C) Rent the same plane as in B
This appeals to me greatly.
Check out a "rusty pilot" seminar. I happened to stumble across one a few months back and it seemed to be very well setup for getting people back into the air.
This is going to sound super gay, especially for real pilots. I had a hiatus of a couple years between flying once before. I upped my medical and called the school for a refresher wth a CFII. We went up and she started having me go through a bunch of maneuvers. Power off/power on stalls, slow flight, turns around a point, all that bs. She turns to me and asks how long have I not flown for. I answer that it's been two or three years (obviosly I can tell with my logbook just can't remember now). She said that I was doing everything right and that I didn't need the refresher. She said she will use it as my bi-annual. She asked how I was able to remember everything. My gay ass answer: Microsoft Flight Simulator and XPlane. :-(
What kind of $$$ and time are we talking to
A) Get a license
B) Own a plane (we'll assume a small single engine that seats 4)
C) Rent the same plane as in B
This appeals to me greatly.
I think it varies by region.
The place intent (the last time I rented) a C152 was $85hr wet and a C172 was $109/hr wet. They had a 2007 C172 with a class cockpit and tnah was $129/hr.
Primary instruction was $40/hr and instrument was $45. It took me 45hrs to be ready for my check ride for PPl. Some take longer. The minimum is 40hrs
No idea how much it costs to own a plane. Never been in the position to so never looked at it. I know some people go into owning one as partners.
What kind of $$$ and time are we talking to
A) Get a license
B) Own a plane (we'll assume a small single engine that seats 4)
C) Rent the same plane as in B
This appeals to me greatly.
It cost me about $3,500 to get my ticket in 1994, but that was in a C-152 for $37/hr wet. I forget what the CFI charged per hour, but it was also a lot less than today. Count on about 60 - 70 hours, with 40 being dual. I haven't rented a plane in 20 years but a C-172, or Warrior, etc costs about $150 per hour in my area. A Cirrus SR-20 is $188/hr.
I quickly found out after I got my ticket, that renting was not a viable solution if I wanted to go places, so I bought a plane. Sole ownership is expensive, but does offer great ability to dispatch whenever you want. Many are going to flying clubs, or a shared ownership solution to cut costs.
What kind of $$$ and time are we talking to
A) Get a license
B) Own a plane (we'll assume a small single engine that seats 4)
C) Rent the same plane as in B
This appeals to me greatly.
Maybe you should check-out experimental aircraft. You can fly certain planes with a drivers license and aviation additional training and FAA certification.
http://www.kitplanes.com/issues/30_12/buyers_guide/2014_buyers_guide_20885-1.html
https://www.aopa.org/advocacy/advocacy-briefs/frequently-asked-questions-about-sport-pilot
HackerF15E
03-04-17, 11:06
Career USAF fighter pilot here, now airline pilot.
Ownership is not something to be taken lightly -- even a small, simple, VFR-only aircraft is going to be expensive to operate, bed-down, maintain, insure, and license. But if you love flying, it is worth it (like any other hobby).
For the OP, I'd get your PPL and rent for a year or two to see how much you actually end up flying. Depending on the aircraft type, you'll have to fly 100+ hours per year to do better financially owning vs renting...and that hourly requirement goes up the more complex and expensive the airplane is.
Career USAF fighter pilot here, now airline pilot.
Ownership is not something to be taken lightly -- even a small, simple, VFR-only aircraft is going to be expensive to operate, bed-down, maintain, insure, and license. But if you love flying, it is worth it (like any other hobby).
For the OP, I'd get your PPL and rent for a year or two to see how much you actually end up flying. Depending on the aircraft type, you'll have to fly 100+ hours per year to do better financially owning vs renting...and that hourly requirement goes up the more complex and expensive the airplane is.
My dad owns a Cessna Citation and a Beechcraft King Air 200, its ridiculous the amount of cost associated with ownership of those planes. I does not make financial sense but to each there own. I'm interested in a Cirrus SR22 or a Cessna Ttx but to be honest, I really don't have a reason to own an aircraft. I have been thinking about getting my helicopter pilots license instead of my PPL since I can transfer the balance. Owning a helicopter makes much more sense than an airplane.
ATP multi engine land, single engine land, single engine sea and rotorcraft. Just over 12,000 TT and my wife is over 11,000 TT with ATP multi engine land, single engine land, rotorcraft and commercial single engine sea. We both fly all that stuff.
Yes and no.
I've had my PPL (single engine land) for several years, but never owned my own aircraft. Looked into it several times, from used 150's and Ercoupes to Rutan kits to Ultralights. Flew ultralights a few times, even tried hang gliding (not for me). Haven't flown anything in a long time.
Cost was always a factor. At one point, I was spending more money renting aircraft than I was renting my apartment. Flying bigger aircraft with more seats meant, theoretically, more paying friends, but none of my friends could ever afford to split the cost, so that went nowhere fast.
My wife (then my GF), was my first official passenger, and she was always supportive of my love of flying and understanding with the cost, but at some point it just got to be too expensive.
I was once told the way to make a small fortune in aviation was to start with a big fortune.
Travelingchild
03-04-17, 19:10
My dad owns a Cessna Citation and a Beechcraft King Air 200, its ridiculous the amount of cost associated with ownership of those planes. I does not make financial sense but to each there own.
So True, Spent New Year's snowmobiling in Deadwood SD, with friends, One of theirs was a commodity Trader out of Twin Cities.
He said His Corporation was thinking of dump the two Corporate jets, & using Net Jets or the like. Actually told me over New Years Eve dinner he could fly his employee's 1st class anywhere in the world cheaper than keeping those planes...
King Air 200 costs about $1000-1200 an hour to operate and probably close to 500k annually beyond that(insurance, hangar, maintenance, pilots, etc...).
Citation costs about 1500-2000 an hour to operate and probably 700k annually beyond that.
Private corporate aircraft are never money savers, however they, on average, and if you schedule and utilize them well, will return about 150%. They are time machines.
I tried to help a guy a few years ago get into something like a King Air 200 or 350. He was worth between 30 and 35k dollars a day. If his destination was within 6 hours of his main office, he drove... He was taking 3 day driving trips that could be done in 1 day in an airplane. He had about 40 offices around the country and probably 10 or so within driving distance. HUGE waste of time. He simply couldnt get over the fact that it was going to cost him a 750k-1 million dollars a year to own and run an airplane. I told him he would be 3x as productive and be able to make a ton more money as well as being almost a 100% tax write off.
Wait till the guy who wants to get rid of his corporate aircraft see how much lost productivity he has when he is used to flying his employees in to an airport 10 minutes from where they need to go and now via airline they have a 3 hour drive, not to mention showing at the airport 1-1.5 hours early for a flight on both sides...plus connections, etc... You lose a day on each side of a business trip if you need to go anywhere outside of a major city.
I am reminded of when the big 3 auto makers flew their corporate jets to D.C. to ask for bail out money... it looked horrible, but when you think those guys are worth a 10 million a day, plus all the people they travel with, its simply not feasible to airline everywhere due to the loss in productivity.
gunrunner505
03-04-17, 21:13
Commercial multi instrument CFII. Was out of flying for years and got back into it about a month ago or so. Surprisingly it only took a few flights to get signed back off. I guess to a degree once you know it, you know it. Currently on the hunt for a C310R. We'll see where that goes.
As far as corporate aviation goes, while you can fly the airlines cheaper you typically cannot land at an airport convenient to your ultimate destination. And then there's the hassle of major airports, TSA and all the other crap, lost luggage etc. So your productivity drops and it takes longer to get where you're going and your flexibility as far as when you go and where you go drops. For a lot of companies, an airplane makes good sense. It's not cheap but the upside is worth the price.
A personal airplane is a time machine. Not for everyone and can get spendy. Jump wisely.
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What kind of $$$ and time are we talking to
A) Get a license
B) Own a plane (we'll assume a small single engine that seats 4)
C) Rent the same plane as in B
This appeals to me greatly.
Last number I was quoted about eight years ago was about $7,500 to get my license. That was instructor, and flight time. They said it would take about a year if I did an hour of flight in an hour of ground a week.
They also mention that if you couldn't commit at least more time than that to it to not even bother. That's just your start. To get an instrument rating and various other ratings the whole nother different game.
Flying clubs not a bad way to go. You basically get fractional membership and the ability to rent various planes of the club owns. Is the cheapest way to get into flying your own planes so to speak.
Annual on a Cessna 210 is about $6,500 from what I was told. The fuel part isn't that bad. The thing is is once you get to that overhaul time, I want to say it was something like 1600 hours, the rebuilt for that engine was around $45000 if I remember right.
Getting an old school 172, and just having fun flying around on nice days and maybe a little back country is one thing. You want to go fly cross-country, that's a whole nother issue. Every option you had that plane is just more money to annual maintenance cost. Retractable gear, oxygen systems, it all adds up. Probably the best reasonable workingmen's airplane you could probably get would be a Cessna 182. Big enough you can actually do something with, cheap enough that you can actually own it.
I've got a buddy with a cessna 210. It's awesome, but it comes with some work too. Busy air spaces and different weather conditions can sure take the fun out of the situation. Flying is one of the most exhilarating experiences there isn't life. However, there's nothing worse than being in the air when you wished your on the ground
That's Cirrus sr22 plane with parachute is very intriguing to me. So much more expensive and fancy faster longer Leg plane. But the ability of been able to float to the ground essentially is very appealing instead of Crash Landing if that situation comes about.
I've flown in the backcountry before, and it's very exhilarating. However the thought of a single piston engine somewhere in the mountains, can somehow take a little bit of the fun out of it when the whole time you're flying you're basically chasing riverbeds so you can set one down instead of crashing into trees.
Night flying in no moon Dark Places with little airplanes can be a bit scary too. I got to do that this last year. That was a bit unnerving experience to be honest. Good airplane and a super pilot, but when it's that dark, no moon, and you maybe see two three tiny little lights within a 300-mile horizon? And the rest is just darkness and desert and mountains? Holy **** me that was kinda scary. We follow the highway, but what happens if the engine went down? What are going to do come out land on the highway with opposing traffic coming at you? Land totally blind god knows where? I guess nods is the answer there, but still.
I like daytime and Fairweather. I know of another guy that flies for a local company that has several airplanes. His boss wanted to fly to Denver Airport during a very severe snow storm. Very dangerous situation, the pilot said they weren't going. The boss said bullshit I own these too expensive airplanes, we're flying in. He resigned on the spot. Said get someone else to fly airplanes. The boss backpedal very hard right there and said well. No no no, you're not quitting. He said is it really that dangerous? And the pilot said absolutely. So that day he took a commercial flight. So that day, a guy that owned a King Air and a smaller citation got to ride a Boeing instead.
I put airplanes, snowmobiles, diesel trucks and black rifles in the same category. Is it disease with no cure. You can't even go to rehab for it. You can go to rehab for drugs. But no rehabs available for any of these other mental illnesses.[emoji2]
I took lessons when I was a teenager (I was in Civil Air Patrol), soloed, but ran out of money before I ran out of instruction. I really, really, enjoyed it, and being in CAP we flew very, very often.
Last number I was quoted about eight years ago was about $7,500 to get my license. That was instructor, and flight time. They said it would take about a year if I did an hour of flight in an hour of ground a week.
They also mention that if you couldn't commit at least more time than that to it to not even bother. That's just your start. To get an instrument rating and various other ratings the whole nother different game.
Flying clubs not a bad way to go. You basically get fractional membership and the ability to rent various planes of the club owns. Is the cheapest way to get into flying your own planes so to speak.
Annual on a Cessna 210 is about $6,500 from what I was told. The fuel part isn't that bad. The thing is is once you get to that overhaul time, I want to say it was something like 1600 hours, the rebuilt for that engine was around $45000 if I remember right.
Getting an old school 172, and just having fun flying around on nice days and maybe a little back country is one thing. You want to go fly cross-country, that's a whole nother issue. Every option you had that plane is just more money to annual maintenance cost. Retractable gear, oxygen systems, it all adds up. Probably the best reasonable workingmen's airplane you could probably get would be a Cessna 182. Big enough you can actually do something with, cheap enough that you can actually own it.
I'm taking lessons at American Flyers, 20 hours of ground school, 40 hours of air time, 5 hours of solo cost $15,780 and that includes a 172/172RG, fuel, simulator time, workshop and just about everything you need to get your PPL. It cost a little more to learn on the Garmin G1000 or G600 but you have to learn on the 6 pack first. One good thing about this program is that i will have a few endorsements like high performance, complex, constant speed prop.
Mr. Goodtimes
03-06-17, 13:03
What kind of $$$ and time are we talking to
A) Get a license
B) Own a plane (we'll assume a small single engine that seats 4)
C) Rent the same plane as in B
This appeals to me greatly.
A) not very expensive for just getting basic certifications.
B) absurdly expensive. The cost of an airplane and fuel is only the beginning. You have to keep it somewhere, you have regular maintenance and annuals and god forbid something serious breaks... engine rebuilds. Owning a plane is truly a wealthy mans thing. There is nothing cheap about owning an airplane, from the upfront cost to all the hidden ones.
C) Not too expensive. My father used to rent a little Cessna 172 to take me flying when I was a kid and it was about 70 bucks an hour... I don't remember if that included fuel or not.
If you just want to get a pilots license to fly on your own it's not terribly expensive, but if you want to do it for a career, be prepared to fork over a shit load of money for additional certifications such as multi engine time, turbine time and jet time, and then you'll still be some dude with an expensive ass license and no time, so you can maybe get hired by a sketchy ass regional carrier making 35 grand a year... or worse until you build up enough time to get hired somewhere good.
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C) Not too expensive. My father used to rent a little Cessna 172 to take me flying when I was a kid and it was about 70 bucks an hour... I don't remember if that included fuel or not.
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Not too expensive to remain legal. Can get very expensive to keep your skills up to high standards. Even one hour per week, @ $70 per hour, is $280 per month, every month. Unless you're making a lot of money, that amount can become a real burden if you also have a mortgage, kids to feed, a savings/IRA/401K to fund, etc.
And one hour per week is not really that much flying. Airtime to the practice area, run through some drills, airtime back to the airport, a few touch and goes, and it doesn't leave much opportunity to fly somewhere for an afternoon, or weekend (and when I was renting, anything overnight had a 3 hour per day minimum charge).
Travelingchild
03-06-17, 18:20
What kind of $$$
... (we'll assume a small single engine that seats 4)...
This appeals to me greatly.
Please note simply because a aircraft has 4 actual seats doesn't mean it can haul 4 people plus any baggage any reasonable distance with out multiple fuel stops without being overloaded,
FAA standard weight for an individual is or was 170lbs someone correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm going to guess most M4 members are north of that :cool:
Please note simply because a aircraft has 4 actual seats doesn't mean it can haul 4 people plus any baggage any reasonable distance with out multiple fuel stops without being overloaded,
FAA standard weight for an individual is or was 170lbs someone correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm going to guess most M4 members are north of that :cool:
Assuming a empty weight of 1700 lbs, and full tanks at 52 gallon tanks (in a newer 172), you would be able to take about 450-550 pounds of stuff based on its max TO weight. 172's are great trainers but that's about it.
Travelingchild
03-06-17, 18:52
...
That's Cirrus sr22 plane with parachute is very intriguing to me. So much more expensive and fancy faster longer Leg plane. But the ability of been able to float to the ground essentially is very appealing instead of Crash Landing if that situation comes about.
...
Technically it's still a Crash Landing..
Used to work for the Company the Built the actual Parachute system for those Cirrus Aircraft, Which was sent To BRS Systems then installed in the Aircraft.
If I can find it then scan it, Some where I have a Photo of an Original test using a Cessna 150 I think.
gunrunner505
03-06-17, 21:47
A couple other things to keep in mind about aircraft maintenance is you as an owner has a list of about 30 specific items the FAA authorizes you to do. When possible, do these things yourself. An owner assisted annual can also save you money. Don't pay shop rates to have a guy remove inspection plates, you can unscrew screws for free.
Engine TBO for part 91 is not limiting. The manufacturer lists a recommended TBO but as long as your compressions are good and your oil samples are clean you can fly right past TBO. There's plenty of engines that go to 2000 hours or more just fine, there's also plenty of engines that trash a cylinder or cam and lifters at 400 hours. All depends. At some point you will be opening up the engine and then it's BOHICA. You can do a field overhaul for a lot less as opposed to a factory zero time or continued time overhaul and you can have your prop simply resealed as long as the blades and hub are ok. The word repair is your friend. Do a repair where you can instead of an overhaul.
Buddy of mine has a Beechcraft Baron, he says maintenance comes in 3 flavors, $1AMU, $3AMU and WTF!?!?!
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Rayrevolver
03-06-17, 22:20
Flew and worked at an airport in high school. I "fly" for work but I'm more like self loading baggage that doesn't log any time or technically do anything. I do have 747-400 and Beech Premier I time in my log book. I landed a 1900C once! And 2 hops in a T-38. And I sat jump seat in a 737 for 31 full stalls in 1 flight... ugh.
I remember my check ride and going through the log bogs. That 152 was hundreds of hours past TBO but passing the 100 hour. Held up just fine for me, but not for the guy a few months later. Ate a valve on climb out.
Back to the cost thing, I can't recall the numbers off hand, but flying 3 or 4 people for a day trip saved the company money as opposed to rental cars, hotels, per diem, and 2 travel days of pay. And that was peons in a G1000 Caravan.
...you know whats more fun than flying? A crotch rocket on a race track.:big_boss:
Yes.......
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a213/ce750x/IMG_4157_zpsxlh372ym.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/ce750x/media/IMG_4157_zpsxlh372ym.jpg.html)
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a213/ce750x/IMG_3567_zpsol5ua7hm.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/ce750x/media/IMG_3567_zpsol5ua7hm.jpg.html)
Yes.......
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a213/ce750x/IMG_4157_zpsxlh372ym.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/ce750x/media/IMG_4157_zpsxlh372ym.jpg.html)
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a213/ce750x/IMG_3567_zpsol5ua7hm.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/ce750x/media/IMG_3567_zpsol5ua7hm.jpg.html)
nice....
44317
this is me next to my dads Citation
and here is his King Air 200
44318
he had them both repainted blue/silver over white
and here is his King Air 200
44318
he had them both repainted blue/silver over white
I must admit, even after having tens of thousands of hours flying widebodies all around the globe, I still get a big smile every time I think about the old King-Air days. Nice ride, just plain fun to fly, and still go into all the really cool smaller airports.
I must admit, even after having tens of thousands of hours flying widebodies all around the globe, I still get a big smile every time I think about the old King-Air days. Nice ride, just plain fun to fly, and still go into all the really cool smaller airports.
I hear that a lot from pilots, most seasoned pilots have some experience in a King Air and talk highly of them. Getting into smaller airports is probably a top 5 reason so many businesses lean towards these. I wouldn't want to fly this from LA to New York but from Dallas to Phoenix or Dallas to St Louis...yes over any plane.
I raised a pilot. (They're weird...) He soloed on his 16th birthday. When he got his license the question arose, now what? Lotsa other ratings, that was what. No airlines; last gig was flying ISR in Dash-8s in Afghanistan. Now Hawker 800s. Still looking for bigger planes and bigger bucks while commuting from Wyoming. He's bumping 10K hours.
He bought a Tri-Pacer about ten years ago, now has a nice straight tail 182. Nothing cheap about owning and operating it, but he knows the angles and figures it's worth it. Flying is who he is and what he does.
The Collings Foundation had their dual control P-51 out here last year. In a moment of insanity I gave him an hour in it. Damned expensive but the shocked look on his face was worth it.
Hell, living vicariously can be fun, too.
Please note simply because a aircraft has 4 actual seats doesn't mean it can haul 4 people plus any baggage any reasonable distance with out multiple fuel stops without being overloaded,
FAA standard weight for an individual is or was 170lbs someone correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm going to guess most M4 members are north of that :cool:
Yes, the standard FAA passenger, or pilot is 170 lbs. That maybe have OK for the 1960's but not today. Your average male is 200 lbs plus. (I'm too afraid to discuss female weight) My Tiger has a gross weight of 2,400 lbs., with a total payload of 961 lbs. With full fuel (51 gallons x 6 lbs/gal = 306) leaving 655 lbs, so for me to take myself, and three people I need to leave some fuel behind. Fuel to the tabs, 19 gallons a side, so 38 gallons total, giving me almost 4 hours range, 3:30 with VFR reserve, 3:15 with IFR reserve, so enough to get somewhere at 135 KTAS, will usually allow me to fill the seats, but with no baggage. See where I am going? Todays planes are heavier, with even less useful load. The practicality isn't really there. You just have to love it.
Oh, and I prefer Lycoming engines, especially my O-360A4K.
I hear that a lot from pilots, most seasoned pilots have some experience in a King Air and talk highly of them. Getting into smaller airports is probably a top 5 reason so many businesses lean towards these. I wouldn't want to fly this from LA to New York but from Dallas to Phoenix or Dallas to St Louis...yes over any plane.
Cessna Citations are also popular for this reason. They can get into, and more importantly out of smaller fields.
Cessna Citations are also popular for this reason. They can get into, and more importantly out of smaller fields.
Near-Jet. [emoji41]
and the citations that can get in and out of the really short fields, the straight wing citations, are also PAINFULLY slow.
Got caught behind a guy on an airway a few years ago doing like .65 or something stupid like that. We offset 5 miles and went by him at .80.
Got caught behind another going into MSP who was descending on the arrival at 250 when everybody else wanted to got 300+. Controller told me to slow "unable"... Turned the citation off the arrival and let us all go by.
Tonight coming across Canada we had to climb to pass somebody... went from 390-410. We were ONLY doing .85... I mean come on, get with the program.
Rayrevolver
03-08-17, 14:41
Near-Jet. [emoji41]
I worked for Beechcraft/Hawker and we called them Slowtations, until the X came out. That thing is a beast!
Love seeing the King Air get some praise. I did lots of right seat stuff in them.
Man, you guys fly high. I am used to a FL410 service ceiling and you little guys are making calls above us! Don't fly so high you crazy kids!
and the citations that can get in and out of the really short fields, the straight wing citations, are also PAINFULLY slow.
Got caught behind a guy on an airway a few years ago doing like .65 or something stupid like that. We offset 5 miles and went by him at .80.
Got caught behind another going into MSP who was descending on the arrival at 250 when everybody else wanted to got 300+. Controller told me to slow "unable"... Turned the citation off the arrival and let us all go by.
Tonight coming across Canada we had to climb to pass somebody... went from 390-410. We were ONLY doing .85... I mean come on, get with the program.
Huh, getting stuck behind a slow airliner is no fun either.......especially when cruising at .92M.
I worked for Beechcraft/Hawker and we called them Slowtations, until the X came out. That thing is a beast!
Love seeing the King Air get some praise. I did lots of right seat stuff in them.
Man, you guys fly high. I am used to a FL410 service ceiling and you little guys are making calls above us! Don't fly so high you crazy kids!
The Citation X has a ceiling of FL510......never been up there in 11 years. FL470 was once, and that was only because the temp at altitude was helpful and our weight allowed for it. Speed really drops in the X above FL430, makes no sense to go higher unless going far.
Huh, getting stuck behind a slow airliner is no fun either.......especially when cruising at .92M.
We can go .94, but rvsm is limited to .90 and it's rare we are light enough to get up above 410 and out of rvsm. We were empty doing a ferry last night and could have gone to 450.
Climbing out at 280+ below 10k is fun though.
RVSM is limited to .90? Is that in your aircraft? Never heard of a civilian aircraft being certified to M.94. We cruise at .92, all the time. Only stuff that slows us down is temp, weight or slower aircraft.
Our pilot in the King Air is cool. I sit up with him a lot and we talk and he will explain how things work and show me what things do. Our Citation pilot is ex Air force C-130 gunship pilot and I am not allowed to look at or touch anything....in fact I'm not allowed to chit chat with him either unless he says otherwise. He once let me push the "Fasten seatbelts/No smoking" button under his supervision.
lahunter57
03-08-17, 19:22
I'm really surprised how many pilots we have on here. I'll be joining the ranks in a few months, for now I just ride b*tch. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170309/9da9bec05abf947d55245dbfb589b51f.jpg
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RVSM is limited to .90? Is that in your aircraft? Never heard of a civilian aircraft being certified to M.94. We cruise at .92, all the time. Only stuff that slows us down is temp, weight or slower aircraft.
I had never heard of a .90 rvsm limit but i never flew a plane that could go that fast before. It's a limitation in our book and then mmo is .92(I could have sworn is was .94, might be a -8 vs. -400 difference, due to the slicker wing and more power on the -8). Vmo is 360(book says 365, but red line is right at 360, probably for a bit of protection). It's not unusual to do 270-290 below 10 at heavy weights. -8 mgtow is 450k kg... I've been at like 430k kg is as heavy as I've flown it. -8 dont climb for shit until you get it cleaned up and it gets a head of steam up, the -400 will actually climb with flaps out pretty decently.
747-400 and -8. We normally cruise at .83-.85. Last night we could have put the hammer down pretty easily empty. At .85 we were at about 90% N1 and I think engine limit was 101 or 102 for the conditions.
Interesting, never flown any of the 747 variants.
I always wanted to fly, but when I had time I didn't have money. Now I have money but no time.
A couple years ago my wife got me a half-hour intro lesson in a Schweizer 300 for my birthday. Damn, that was fun! Maybe some day...
I've had every opportunity to get my license. My dad was a CFI. I have several friends that are CFI's, and several more that own planes. I just can't make the dollars/enjoyment ratio work out for me. Once my dad wasn't getting paid to fly, he stopped flying.
Near-Jet. [emoji41]
Slowtation
Slowtation
Our Citation is 100mph faster than our King Air 200. Not much difference.. my dad flies to Houston once a week and it takes 50 minutes to get to West Houston in a King Air, Citation or Boeing 737, however when we fly out to Vegas, the Citation can shave an hour off our time yet only seats 6 whereas our King Air seats 10, not that we are taking 10 people but 4 people in a King Air is comfortable, 4 people in a Citation is a little stuffy. My dad is a die hard King Air owner, he has owned probably 5+ in the last 30 years. He says that they are the most dependable, efficient, reliable, affordable airplanes that have the criteria that a business or individual would want.
44351
This is my dads first plane..i believe this is a Piper but not sure.
44353
His First company plane, a piper P Navaho he bought in 1983ish, traded this plane strait up for the plane pictured below
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His first King Air 90, Circa 1985, I believe he owned a King Air 100 after this plane.
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His First King Air 200- 1997
44355
his current King Air 200 2006
Now my dad now has a form of Parkinson's and MS which put him in a wheelchair so he is in the process of selling both aircraft but said if I get my pilots license, instrument rating and 200+ hours of flying he would help me into something like a new single engine aircraft. But as I keep taking lessons I'm realizing the painful reality that I don't think being a pilot is for me. I'm not good at learning too much at one time and learning to fly a plane is in my opinion, probably one of the hardest things to learn, not just flying, but learning about instruments, flying at night, flying using instruments, navigation, talking to the ATC, hell, even taxing on a busy airport can be stressful especially for a beginner like me. I am literally having to teach myself how to use a slide rule and a plotter for god sakes. Like I'm going to go back to the 1930s and join the Air Mail Service and fly around wearing a leather pilot cap, goggles and a scarf. Being dyslexic, ADD and having a learning disability is NOT for pilots. But I do enjoy flying and getting a few hours out of it.
44351
This is my dads first plane..i believe this is a Piper but not sure.
You are correct. That is a fixed gear Piper Lance. Good solid plane that can carry a lot.
By the Spring of 1983 I had finished advanced grad flight school at Rucker. Eventually flew OH-6, MH-6, AH-6J, OH-58C and OH-58D. Stopped flying in December 1999 when I retired. During my Army career, did some civilian single engine training in a Cessna 182. The only flying around I do now is much closer to the ground on the hurricane deck of semi-wild Texas Cayuse.
Good to see you back, you haven't posted in a while. I hope all is well.
Good to see you back, you haven't posted in a while. I hope all is well.
Been working a lot after expanding my herd after some land acquisition a couple of years ago. Also, my youngest son graduates High School in May and he's off to Summer training at West Point prior to his Freshman year. He'll also be playing for the USMA's baseball team. He's psyched about West Point, but I have have an underlying concern about what's happening in the World. He'll rank faster than I did because I was college ROTC. I was in the zone for LTC when I resigned my commission and retired at 22 years.
By the Spring of 1983 I had finished advanced grad flight school at Rucker. Eventually flew OH-6, MH-6, AH-6J, OH-58C and OH-58D. Stopped flying in December 1999 when I retired. During my Army career, did some civilian single engine training in a Cessna 182. The only flying around I do now is much closer to the ground on the hurricane deck of semi-wild Texas Cayuse.
A good friend of mine, a Nam Army infantry vet, has a Robinson R44. I am fixed wing only, and I sit left seat in the Robbie with my arms folded, happily as a passenger. Rotorcraft are WEIRD! :)
gunrunner505
03-12-17, 12:53
A good friend of mine, a Nam Army infantry vet, has a Robinson R44. I am fixed wing only, and I sit left seat in the Robbie with my arms folded, happily as a passenger. Rotorcraft are WEIRD! :)
Back when I was flying the Lear there was a guy who drove around a Jet Ranger in our hangar. Try as I might to get him to go up in the jet he wouldn't do it. If it went faster than 120 or higher than 1000 feet he wasn't doing it. Good guy, just not his thing.
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Well Elephant, at least you realized that you not into it before your really invested.
A local kid that is a relation to some family friends of mine, went to helicopter School. Paid almost 90 freaking thousand dollars, go right to the end, then quit.
Unbelievable. Why you would do that amount of work, spend that amount of money, and quit at the very end?
If I wanted rotor, but wasn't going into the Armed Forces, I'd pick the Embry-Riddle program over in Prescott, AZ. You get a BS Degree in Aeronautical Science and some hours to go with it. The advantage with the Army for me was more real world environment flight time as opposed to simulators. More pucker factor when you're green but makes for a better pilot in my opinion. I've known some CWO Pilots to enter that civilian degree program and they had the best of both worlds.
FlyingHunter
03-12-17, 20:05
Of all the planes I've flown, by far the most enjoyable plane I've ever piloted was a clipped wing J-3 Cub with an modified fuel system allowing for inverted power for aerobatic performance.
Well Elephant, at least you realized that you not into it before your really invested.
A local kid that is a relation to some family friends of mine, went to helicopter School. Paid almost 90 freaking thousand dollars, go right to the end, then quit.
Unbelievable. Why you would do that amount of work, spend that amount of money, and quit at the very end?
not to say anything bad about my school. but most of the instructors are 25ish, they may have sufficient hours in a plane but not proficient at teaching. a lot of these young pilots are aspiring to get hired to fly a G550 or Falcon 900 and seem pre occupied when in the plane with me. I can just tell, they would rather be flying than teaching.
If I wanted rotor, but wasn't going into the Armed Forces, I'd pick the Embry-Riddle program over in Prescott, AZ. You get a BS Degree in Aeronautical Science and some hours to go with it.
Riddle is a waste of money. Way overpriced and you end up with a degree that's completely useless in real world applications if you ever lose your medical and can't fly.
Having worked almost 20 years and the airlines, I promise you they don't care what your degree is in. They just care that you have one.
Unless you have rich parents and can just throw an extra 40 grand away, go get your degree at a State-U, and get your pilot license on the side. You'll end up with half the student debt to worry about later. Once you find a job in the airlines, you won't be making any real money for your first five years, so that money save will go a long way when you need it.
The key is finding a good Rotor School. Embry-Riddle does have a good school for that segment of aviation. There are plenty of other Mom & Pop schools for helicopter, but some are spurious operators.
For fixed-wing, I have a friend who was an F-14 aviation electrician's mate (AE) in the Navy , got out and used his education benefit to get a BA degree in Literature. After that, got on the pilot development program with a now defunct regional carrier called Mesa Airlines in Arizona, New Mexico and Colorado. He eventually was flying the Beechcraft 1900D, and worked his way up over a dozen years. He now flies the Embraer EMB 175, currently as First Officer for a major carrier.
I did not know Riddle did rotor. Cool.
Good for your buddy. I got mine the old fashioned way too. Army enlisted, GI bill for college, then paid for my own ratings while working as a LEO. I did a few years at a regional and got hired at a Major. Flying wide-body international now. Wow, the time has flown by... No pun intended.
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