View Full Version : Obama Admin wiretapping Trump?
Grand58742
03-04-17, 07:42
I have to say, I hope he has proof.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/04/trump-accuses-obama-administration-wiretapping-trump-tower-phones.html
President Trump made a startling claim Saturday that former President Barack Obama had Trump Tower phones tapped in the weeks before the November 2016 election.
In early Saturday morning tweets that began at 6:35 a.m., the president said the alleged wiretapping was “McCarthyism” and “Nixon/Watergate.”
“Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my ‘wires tapped’ in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism,” Trump wrote.
The Dems are playing their usual games, but they've found an adversary that meets their challenge and turns it around on them, instead of cowering in fear. I don't understand why every person with an "R" behind their name doesn't stand up to these leftist mind games, lies and distortions the same way Trump does. Next to Trump, these stupid dems look like little league kids trying to play in the big leagues. He exposes their lies and makes them look stupid every time. Funny that we have to hear about it from Twitter, vs. what is supposed to be actual "news" channels.
Sessions met with the russians? Oh no, what will we do?
Oh wait… the Obaminator met with the same russians 22 times during his administration!
And Pelosi is making these accusations and claiming to have never met with the russians? Oh looky here: We've got a photo of old Nancy pants in a meeting with the same Russian in 2010 right here…
I wonder how many times Trump will have to whoop their asses before they learn to stop poking at the lion who is not in a cage? I hope they continue. They just keep making themselves look more and more stupid and more and more desperate. We are winning this war. Bigly.
Interesting. I hope he has proof.
If not, he is going to pay a price. If true, then I look forward to seeing Obama's mug shot.
Something tells me that this is just BS to get the spotlight off Sessions.
RetroRevolver77
03-04-17, 11:19
Didn't the DNC wiretap the Republicans not even a couple years ago? I remember they bugged the meeting the place of the Republicans- but not the details. Back when they were using the IRS to go after conservative non profit organizations.
The Democrats bugged the Republican Cloak Room at House of Representatives.
http://www.breitbart.com/blog/2013/05/15/congressman-devin-nunes-the-doj-seized-house-cloak-room-phone-records-too/
If not, he is going to pay a price. If true, then I look forward to seeing Obama's mug shot.
Something tells me that this is just BS to get the spotlight off Sessions.
My suspicion is that this is a regular NSA or DOJ investigation, not the black bag job that the headline "Obama bugs Trump's office" would imply.
I reckon because most of the R folks are loyal to the BIG P (progressive) name that is above the majority both sides !
same reason bush loves the so called female obama :) so much and same reason he is speaking out against Trump but never against obama ?
that alone should be telling enough
I do think Trump is not one of them ? but could be wrong
The Dems are playing their usual games, but they've found an adversary that meets their challenge and turns it around on them, instead of cowering in fear. I don't understand why every person with an "R" behind their name doesn't stand up to these leftist mind games, lies and distortions the same way Trump does. Next to Trump, these stupid dems look like little league kids trying to play in the big leagues. He exposes their lies and makes them look stupid every time. Funny that we have to hear about it from Twitter, vs. what is supposed to be actual "news" channels.
Sessions met with the russians? Oh no, what will we do?
Oh wait… the Obaminator met with the same russians 22 times during his administration!
And Pelosi is making these accusations and claiming to have never met with the russians? Oh looky here: We've got a photo of old Nancy pants in a meeting with the same Russian in 2010 right here…
I wonder how many times Trump will have to whoop their asses before they learn to stop poking at the lion who is not in a cage? I hope they continue. They just keep making themselves look more and more stupid and more and more desperate. We are winning this war. Bigly.
My suspicion is that this is a regular NSA or DOJ investigation, not the black bag job that the headline "Obama bugs Trump's office" would imply.
Then Trump is going to pay a price. The FBI collecting evidence under a FISA warrant is not the same as Obama ordering the tapping of a citizen.
Then Trump is going to pay a price. The FBI collecting evidence under a FISA warrant is not the same as Obama ordering the tapping of a citizen.
There were reportedly two FISA requests prior to November, first one denied, second one granted. If that's the basis of Trump's 6 or 8 tweets about wiretapping this morning then that's going to be a problem.
Then Trump is going to pay a price. The FBI collecting evidence under a FISA warrant is not the same as Obama ordering the tapping of a citizen.
Agree, that is a serious allegation, Trump really needs to verify by more than two reliable sources before he reaches for his phone. Even if Obama's admin had hands on this, there will never be any proof provided leading to O. His minions march in lock step without requiring direction from their king.
Agree with Bulletdog, Trump needs to go after left at every opportunity. Chuck U, Pelosi, Hillary.. all of them. No Quarter.
The left is engaging in an incremental coup, death by a thousand cuts. Amazing too, their arguments typically always lack sensible reason and sanity.
It will be interesting to see if Trump can spin this as "Obama administration approves wiretap of Trump campaign weeks before election" and make it stick. Kind of a tricky needle to thread, but the optics at first blush aren't good. Could work if done artfully ("artful" not always being a hallmark of this administration).
I think it's time for Sessions to open criminal investigations on the DNC for collusion against Bernie in the primaries, and the Clinton Foundation for election racketeering. The Dems have proven they're never going to let losing the election go, so the best defense is a strong offense. Hammer time! :(
Trump really needs to stop tweeting.
It will be interesting to see if Trump can spin this as "Obama administration approves wiretap of Trump campaign weeks before election" and make it stick. Kind of a tricky needle to thread, but the optics at first blush aren't good. Could work if done artfully ("artful" not always being a hallmark of this administration).
OBAMAGATE!
Eurodriver
03-04-17, 13:21
Trump really needs to stop tweeting.
I was talking to old girl about this today.
He's not a stupid guy. He is kind of brash, but he isn't an idiot.
Whys he doing it? What's his objective?
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-04-17, 13:26
The real story is if BHO let foreign allies do the dirty work......
I was talking to old girl about this today.
He's not a stupid guy. He is kind of brash, but he isn't an idiot.
Whys he doing it? What's his objective?
Yep. It could be a powerful tool if used wisely, but sadly he just comes across as a whining teenager that just got grounded.
Even if it is a FISA court-ordered wiretap, does anyone here trust the supposed integrity of the system anymore? Meaning at the time Obama controlled the "apparatus" of government, and any "official" acts need to be questioned. Seeing the politics that have come into play with such previously unquestioned agencies like NSA/CIA/FBI, I certainly WOULD raise an eyebrow even if it was done under the auspices of a FISA order.
Put it another way......why would anyone nowadays do a "private" bugging operation when Nixon's fate is still a relatively fresh memory? Hell, if you control the government (as Obama had for the previous 8 years) and had your peeps firmly and deeply entrenched all over the bureaucracy, why not do it "officially" under the guise of "national security"?
While I was a child and didn't follow things like I do as an adult, the old 1960's "questioning of authority" is coming back in spades these days, and deservedly so.
Even if it is a FISA court-ordered wiretap, does anyone here trust the supposed integrity of the system anymore? Meaning at the time Obama controlled the "apparatus" of government, and any "official" acts need to be questioned. Seeing the politics that have come into play with such previously unquestioned agencies like NSA/CIA/FBI, I certainly WOULD raise an eyebrow even if it was done under the auspices of a FISA order.
Put it another way......why would anyone nowadays do a "private" bugging operation when Nixon's fate is still a relatively fresh memory? Hell, if you control the government (as Obama had for the previous 8 years) and had your peeps firmly and deeply entrenched all over the bureaucracy, why not do it "officially" under the guise of "national security"?
While I was a child and didn't follow things like I do as an adult, the old 1960's "questioning of authority" is coming back in spades these days, and deservedly so. Yep. It's all going to be about how Trump can spin it. He certainly isn't going to get any help from the media, and now he has awakened Obama on the subject.
Yep. It's all going to be about how Trump can spin it. He certainly isn't going to get any help from the media, and now he has awakened Obama on the subject.
Obama never really went away....
ForTehNguyen
03-04-17, 16:06
kinda cute how dems are demanding evidence, but then baselessly claim russian trump conspiracy
not evidence but perhaps not the first time:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/03/politics/germany-media-spying-obama-administration/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/10407282/Barack-Obama-approved-tapping-Angela-Merkels-phone-3-years-ago.html
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/cover-story-how-nsa-spied-on-merkel-cell-phone-from-berlin-embassy-a-930205.html
skywalkrNCSU
03-04-17, 16:12
I was talking to old girl about this today.
He's not a stupid guy. He is kind of brash, but he isn't an idiot.
Whys he doing it? What's his objective?
It's either his thin skin not letting something go or trying to change the national talking points. If the media gets on a story he doesn't like all he has to do is tweet out something crazy and it's all anyone can talk about.
I'm pretty sure this accounting is what translated into Trump-speak as "Obama wiretapped me!"
http://aurora-news.us/2017/03/03/breaking-mark-levin-urges-congress-to-investigate-obamas-silent-coup/
With so many government agents and corporate contractors having the ability to pick a surveillance target and dig up anything they want, it's no surprise that these things are happening. What's shocking to me is that we as a people have allowed an alliance so deep between communications corporations and governments to get to this point where the security of all our digital interactions is suspect. Not only can our comms be intercepted at the time they occur, but "rewound" in time in order to see previously collected data. If they're interested in you, who knows how far back they can reach into the past.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-cables-secret-world-communications-nsa
someone posted this
https://www.facebook.com/dan.bongino/videos/1330945876998170/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED
have to say interesting theory and he is clear its a theory
for those not on FB
basically the secret service scans for devices all the time and what if they found something on one of the sweeps
and that is how he found out
ForTehNguyen
03-04-17, 21:10
sources:
https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/49322-youtube-did-president-obama-spy-on-donald-trump-true-news/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_0HAWWeC4E
It's either his thin skin not letting something go or trying to change the national talking points. If the media gets on a story he doesn't like all he has to do is tweet out something crazy and it's all anyone can talk about.
Meanwhile in the real world of actual evidence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsFR8DbSRQE
So apparently the Globalists are tired of We The People saying enough:
https://youtu.be/1Q9XJmH-HKQ
HardToHandle
03-04-17, 22:15
I was talking to old girl about this today.
He's not a stupid guy. He is kind of brash, but he isn't an idiot.
Whys he doing it? What's his objective?
Trump is crazy like a fox. The FBI opened a counter-Intel investigation of the Trump team for potential espionage in association with the Russian federation. The FBI would have to have articulable suspicion or similar standard of proof for FISA court approval to begin any concerted wire tap. This is a bomshell revelation.
Instead of that being the headlines, Trump's proactive tweets allows him to spin the story as Obama Administration wiretapping, which is technically correct in a way. He is defining the narrative instead of the media. Ballsy, brash move - smash your opponent in the face and reset the OODA loop as fast as possible.
My suspicion is that this is a regular NSA or DOJ investigation, not the black bag job that the headline "Obama bugs Trump's office" would imply.
There's no difference between the two.
Then Trump is going to pay a price. The FBI collecting evidence under a FISA warrant is not the same as Obama ordering the tapping of a citizen.
Obama loyalists/Globalist Deep State operatives are all over the place, so yes they are the same.
I think it's time for Sessions to open criminal investigations on the DNC for collusion against Bernie in the primaries, and the Clinton Foundation for election racketeering. The Dems have proven they're never going to let losing the election go, so the best defense is a strong offense. Hammer time! :(
Only way to solve this is martial law and purges. Anything else is whack-a-mole with a blindfold and both hands tied behind the back.
Trump really needs to stop tweeting.
At this point, Trumpp tweeting is the only way for him to reach many/most people without involving the lying media middleman.
I was talking to old girl about this today.
He's not a stupid guy. He is kind of brash, but he isn't an idiot.
Whys he doing it? What's his objective?
Probably what I said above, but I could be wrong. Either way, I will defer to Trump on the matter of playing the media game. That is his lane, as he's been doing it longer than most people have been alive.
Even if it is a FISA court-ordered wiretap, does anyone here trust the supposed integrity of the system anymore? Meaning at the time Obama controlled the "apparatus" of government, and any "official" acts need to be questioned. Seeing the politics that have come into play with such previously unquestioned agencies like NSA/CIA/FBI, I certainly WOULD raise an eyebrow even if it was done under the auspices of a FISA order.
Put it another way......why would anyone nowadays do a "private" bugging operation when Nixon's fate is still a relatively fresh memory? Hell, if you control the government (as Obama had for the previous 8 years) and had your peeps firmly and deeply entrenched all over the bureaucracy, why not do it "officially" under the guise of "national security"?
While I was a child and didn't follow things like I do as an adult, the old 1960's "questioning of authority" is coming back in spades these days, and deservedly so.
Exactamundo!!
proof/evidience is not needed anymore its the infiltration of socialists and progressives that will do this for the cause just like the IRS targeting etc.. and most likely why the first time it was denied ! that should say everything
why does it have to be spin ?
kinda like the targeting of conservatives by the IRS many in power could care less about the law and instead break it daily
Trump is crazy like a fox. The FBI opened a counter-Intel investigation of the Trump team for potential espionage in association with the Russian federation. The FBI would have to have articulable suspicion or similar standard of proof for FISA court approval to begin any concerted wire tap. This is a bomshell revelation.
Instead of that being the headlines, Trump's proactive tweets allows him to spin the story as Obama Administration wiretapping, which is technically correct in a way. He is defining the narrative instead of the media. Ballsy, brash move - smash your opponent in the face and reset the OODA loop as fast as possible.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-05-17, 00:12
I keep hearing about the 'smoke' around Trump and the Russians, but they keep on going from one smoke pot to another. It was a direct hack of the election results, it was a 'hacking' of the election, it was a 'interference' in the election. They keep moving the goal posts and punting their next conspiracy. All with out any evidence. That Sessions comment during the hearings is the latest smoking gun is the height of the crazy. Even Slate is saying that it is a BS case and wouldn't be winable.
I have a buddy who is establishment GOPer and I was talking with him today. He said that with all this BS around Trump, it make him think that they whole Deep State and 'shadow' govt may have something to it.
I keep hearing about the 'smoke' around Trump and the Russians, but they keep on going from one smoke pot to another. It was a direct hack of the election results, it was a 'hacking' of the election, it was a 'interference' in the election. They keep moving the goal posts and punting their next conspiracy. All with out any evidence. That Sessions comment during the hearings is the latest smoking gun is the height of the crazy. Even Slate is saying that it is a BS case and wouldn't be winable.
I have a buddy who is establishment GOPer and I was talking with him today. He said that with all this BS around Trump, it make him think that they whole Deep State and 'shadow' govt may have something to it.
Here is the short and sweet, Podesta had copies of Hillary emails that were SO BAD they influenced the election directly. Makes no difference of independent Russian hackers, Russian military intelligence, teenagers with a TRS-80, someone on the payroll of Julian Assange or Woodward and Bernstein themselves accessed Podesta's emails and EXPOSED the truth.
If Chinese hackers got into the account of a Trump supporter and came forward with emails of him saying they were going to lie about this, lie about that, plant false stories about Hillary or anything of that nature Pelosi would give a speech about how China saved America.
Well in an ironic way, Podesta SAVED AMERICA from Hillary Clinton by having copies of emails that show exactly what kind of person she is and some of the things she actually did. That is not a hack of the election, that is what we call transparency.
I just saw a link to this video on FB. Loretta Lynch is calling for protest and several times mentions violence and death may be necessary now as they have been in the past. She is NUTS! Not very shadowy.
https://www.facebook.com/kennyoneil/posts/10212214170854629
http://yournewswire.com/loretta-lynch-blood-death-trump/
May she get her wish.
As long as I get my wish.
She is the first to go.
What rights have been trampled on or revoked since Trump took office? What rights is he attempting to roll back? I havent heard for him calling for a convention of the states in order to modify the constitution or bill of rights... Has he?
Im genuinely attempting to figure this out?
If it aint in the Constitution or THE BILL OF RIGHTS...its not a right, as per the laws of our country and its founders.
-Social Security is not a right
-Healthcare/medical insurance is not a right
-Welfare is not a right
-Marriage(hetero or homo sexual) is not a right(its not mentioned anywhere, in any document I have read)
-Abortion access is not a right
-Immigration is not a right
-etc....
All of these things the left keeps fighting for and pissing and moaning about them being rights....ARE NOT RIGHTS. They may be current law, but that doesnt make them a right per the documents of our founders.
What about the left's attempt's over the last 8 years to roll back MY RIGHTS UNDER THE 2ND AMENDMENT... huh... what about those rights.
The battle she is seeking will not end well for their side if our side decides enough is enough and stands up. I think though that most on the right are smart enough to see the temper tantrums for what they are and are not at the point yet that its time to flip the switch, so to speak.
I'm no fan of Loretta Lynch. I watched the video and there's nothing in there that even remotely advocated violence or killing anyone. Enough with the pants-on-head retarded levels of hysteria already.
What rights have been trampled on or revoked since Trump took office? What rights is he attempting to roll back? I havent heard for him calling for a convention of the states in order to modify the constitution or bill of rights... Has he?
Im genuinely attempting to figure this out?
If it aint in the Constitution or THE BILL OF RIGHTS...its not a right, as per the laws of our country and its founders.
-Social Security is not a right
-Healthcare/medical insurance is not a right
-Welfare is not a right
-Marriage(hetero or homo sexual) is not a right(its not mentioned anywhere, in any document I have read)
-Abortion access is not a right
-Immigration is not a right
-etc....
All of these things the left keeps fighting for and pissing and moaning about them being rights....ARE NOT RIGHTS. They may be current law, but that doesnt make them a right per the documents of our founders.
What about the left's attempt's over the last 8 years to roll back MY RIGHTS UNDER THE 2ND AMENDMENT... huh... what about those rights.
The battle she is seeking will not end well for their side if our side decides enough is enough and stands up. I think though that most on the right are smart enough to see the temper tantrums for what they are and are not at the point yet that its time to flip the switch, so to speak.
Nobody has lost any freedom or any rights.
I'm no fan of Loretta Lynch. I watched the video and there's nothing in there that even remotely advocated violence or killing anyone. Enough with the pants-on-head retarded levels of hysteria already.
She is being subtle but it's clear. What would you say this means if not violence? "They’ve marched, they’ve bled and yes, some of them died. This is hard. Every good thing is. We have done this before. We can do this again.”
Spurholder
03-05-17, 10:44
Levin was on Foxthis morning saying that it was FISA warrant, and how ludicrous Obama's statement of not having knowledge of an investigation into the opposing party's campaign that close to the election truly is.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-05-17, 10:44
I'm no fan of Loretta Lynch. I watched the video and there's nothing in there that even remotely advocated violence or killing anyone. Enough with the pants-on-head retarded levels of hysteria already.
I agree. She is referring to marchers and civil rights workers being beaten or killed. Twisting her words to mean something else is the other side of accusing Sessions of being a Russian spy.
ETA: I think Lynch is the real world version of Amanda Waller- a highly skilled and intelligent sociopath, if not psychopath. She gives me the willies.
“Neither President Obama nor any White House official ever ordered surveillance on any U.S. citizen. Any suggestion otherwise is simply false" Kind of all the proof I need, a very precisely worded response from Obama. Carefully claiming he didn't order it makes it pretty clear that it did happen.
Who ordered and approved it and how politically motivated it appears is going to be interesting.
Here is the short and sweet, Podesta had copies of Hillary emails that were SO BAD they influenced the election directly. Makes no difference of independent Russian hackers, Russian military intelligence, teenagers with a TRS-80, someone on the payroll of Julian Assange or Woodward and Bernstein themselves accessed Podesta's emails and EXPOSED the truth.
If Chinese hackers got into the account of a Trump supporter and came forward with emails of him saying they were going to lie about this, lie about that, plant false stories about Hillary or anything of that nature Pelosi would give a speech about how China saved America.
Well in an ironic way, Podesta SAVED AMERICA from Hillary Clinton by having copies of emails that show exactly what kind of person she is and some of the things she actually did. That is not a hack of the election, that is what we call transparency.
In league with this train of thought: Trump's privately uttered vulgar words were displayed for the public, and Hillary's private emails of deceit were displayed for the public. The public then made their choice on election day about which type of depravity they wanted to run their country. How these private emails and comments were exposed is of little concern to me personally.
skywalkrNCSU
03-05-17, 11:16
What rights have been trampled on or revoked since Trump took office? What rights is he attempting to roll back? I havent heard for him calling for a convention of the states in order to modify the constitution or bill of rights... Has he?
Im genuinely attempting to figure this out?
If it aint in the Constitution or THE BILL OF RIGHTS...its not a right, as per the laws of our country and its founders.
-Social Security is not a right
-Healthcare/medical insurance is not a right
-Welfare is not a right
-Marriage(hetero or homo sexual) is not a right(its not mentioned anywhere, in any document I have read)
-Abortion access is not a right
-Immigration is not a right
-etc....
All of these things the left keeps fighting for and pissing and moaning about them being rights....ARE NOT RIGHTS. They may be current law, but that doesnt make them a right per the documents of our founders.
What about the left's attempt's over the last 8 years to roll back MY RIGHTS UNDER THE 2ND AMENDMENT... huh... what about those rights.
The battle she is seeking will not end well for their side if our side decides enough is enough and stands up. I think though that most on the right are smart enough to see the temper tantrums for what they are and are not at the point yet that its time to flip the switch, so to speak.
I'm not sure you understand how rights work. The constitution doesn't outline our only rights.
If ANYONE doubts that the Trump train was and continues to be under surveillance is an idiot. Sorry, but it's difficult to leak conversation details without surveillance in place. My bet is the Lynch and the DOJ initiated surveillance under a BS FISA warrant as a way to keep an eye on Trump during the election build up. They didn't do anything about allowing a potential spy becoming a president because they didn't have anything and they didn't think he'd win. If the DNC had evidence that Trump was a Russian surrogate they should have been screaming from every rooftop. They didn't. Why??
Now they come forth and play partisan politics.
Maybe Trump going on the offensive is a smoke screen. They had a huge IC leak with the Flynn thing and others. Will the source now expose himself to protect the Party and prove it was a valid warrant??
I hate the whole double secret probation courts and lists. They are the tools of an oppressive government and need to be seriously revised if not eliminated.
I hope they keep on with it. Eventually people will get sick of it.
The problem with eggheads is that they don't understand the American people.
We are lazy, angry, violent, highly prejudiced, impatient, and easily bored.
on our good days.
If they keep hammering on all this Trump crap and finger wagging it will go fully the other way. People who aren't Cold Warriors looking to stay relevant don't care about Russia. Nobody really cares about "refugees" and nobody really cares about the Julios.
Especially not legal, Americanized persons. Discuss Illegals with your local Colombian-America. You will hear lots of swearing and bitterness that they had to work and these others didn't.
The Krauts and the Frogs might get commercials advocating hijab but most people in the US are NOT going to be muslim. Too much bacon, too much freedom, and let's face it. Most people don't even go to church once a week. They aint gonna bow 7 times a day.
Especially the blacks. 90% subscribe to Christianity. The jail converts might be whitey hating Muslims for a few years but they also go queer for their stretch as well. When they get out, back to normal.
A lot of this is Globalist BS of people trying to create this Google "citizen of the Earth' spiel and it just won't happen.
Europe can be browbeaten because A. they suck and B. all that guilt.
America is not and has never been sorry for jack squat. Annihilate Injuns? Soooorry 'bout that. Openly engage in slavery both white and black? Soooooooorry 'bout that. Kill off Imperial Mexicans for manifest destiny? Sooooooorry 'bout that. Firebomb/Atomize civilians? Sooooooorry 'bout that
Some president might say hollow words of apology but Americans themselves? lol no. We don't care. Nor should we. It all works out one way or another.
We eat, we kill, we fornicate, and we destroy. Not because someone told us to, but because we enjoy it.
We are the 12 o'clock boys/YRNs of the world.
The sooner these milquetoast white guilters and oreos realize it.....the better, for them.
And calling on dumbass hood rats and college kids to do violence is stupid and irresponsible. Everybody else will just put on Mossy Oak, black out their face, and start going to town.
Anti-Fa works in Europe because "pip-pip, we are gentlemen here. No need for fisticuffs"
Whereas America is just not that way at all.
Get out of DC, San Fran, and NYC once in a while......go visit America.
Rammstein said it best. Coca Cola sometimes War
ETA That's something else too. Blacks are leaving the Plantation wholesale and Dems are scared.
They may not be Republicans(neither am I) but screw Democrat shit.
Most black folks:
-Hate the government
-Hate The Man
-Don't want to fight BS vanity wars
-Hate paying unnecessary taxes
-Want guns
-Don't want to give their shit to other people
-Don't want someone in their face all the time
Hmm.....lots of common ground there
So grasp at them straws, try to stay relevant. It just makes the decision easier
Then Trump is going to pay a price.
Neither side is going to pay any price. This is just the usual accusation/denial we will see for the next four years. The only purpose of this story was to knock the Sessions story off the headline. The purpose of the Sessions story was to knock the successful speech story off the headlines. This current bugging story will be knocked off the headlines by something else by Tuesday or Wednesday.
Neither side is going to pay any price. This is just the usual accusation/denial we will see for the next four years. The only purpose of this story was to knock the Sessions story off the headline. The purpose of the Sessions story was to knock the successful speech story off the headlines. This current bugging story will be knocked off the headlines by something else by Tuesday or Wednesday.
You've done this before. Not your first time, is it?
MountainRaven
03-05-17, 13:57
I'm not sure you understand how rights work. The constitution doesn't outline our only rights.
More specifically: If it ain't specifically outlined in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights (which is part of the Constitution) as being a right of the states or the Federal government, it's not a right of the states or the Federal government. All rights not specifically mentioned in the Constitution - plus those specifically mentioned - are reserved by the People. Which is what the Founders intended (it's right there in the text of the Constitution).
I'm not sure you understand how rights work. The constitution doesn't outline our only rights.
Im pretty sure I do, although I guess my wording could be better. There are lots of rights not in the Constitution/bill of rights, obviously, and those things that are NOT spelled out are NOT for the government to be involved in...ever. Hence my list of some things people now claim as "rights" that the government needs to protect or regulate, yet actually dont exist in any document for the government to have a say in. That makes a lot of things legal that people claim as "rights"... The government also has made a lot of things illegal that I(and a lot of others) say that they dont have the authority to regulate. The issue over rights is very muddy, especially when people claim they have rights to such and such, yet what they claim to have rights to is actually a good or service that costs money(health care and insurance). Or people that claim they have a "right" to welfare. Or Social Security. Or.......
RetroRevolver77
03-05-17, 14:33
Here is the evidence, two FISA court issued warrants requested by the Obama Administration specifically to spy on the Trump Campaign. The agencies ordered to be involved in the inquiry were the FBI, CIA, NSA, Justice Department, and Treasury Department Financial Crimes Enforcement Network. Essentially, Obama ordered all agencies to crawl up Trump's ass to find evidence linking them to Russian hacking once hackers exposed the content from the DNC e-mails showing top members of the DNC involved in a wide variety of criminal activity. However the hacks themselves have never been proven to have originated from Russia as they originated from inside the US and possibly some government agencies themselves. Trump needs to do a full investigation of the abuse of power and corruption from the DNC and Obama Administration as well as an investigation into the actual content exposed by the leaks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA6QLbFi0do
7n6
Here is the evidence, two FISA court issued warrants requested by the Obama Administration specifically to spy on the Trump Campaign. The agencies ordered to be involved in the inquiry were the FBI, CIA, NSA, Justice Department, and Treasury Department Financial Crimes Enforcement Network. Essentially, Obama ordered all agencies to crawl up Trump's ass to find evidence linking them to Russian hacking once hackers exposed the content from the DNC e-mails showing top members of the DNC involved in a wide variety of criminal activity. However the hacks themselves have never been proven to have originated from Russia as they originated from inside the US and possibly some government agencies themselves. Trump needs to do a full investigation of the abuse of power and corruption from the DNC and Obama Administration as well as an investigation into the actual content exposed by the leaks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA6QLbFi0do
7n6
As I said earlier, done "under the color of authority".
I agree. She is referring to marchers and civil rights workers being beaten or killed. Twisting her words to mean something else is the other side of accusing Sessions of being a Russian spy.
ETA: I think Lynch is the real world version of Amanda Waller- a highly skilled and intelligent sociopath, if not psychopath. She gives me the willies.
The 1960's are long gone. You're not getting violence from the police or public like happened then. It isn't going to happen. No police dogs and fire hoses. How else would we come up with the blood and deaths she suggests?
Saw this in FB just now. There some blood here:
http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/trump-supporters-beaten-bloodied-berkeley/?utm_content=buffereb0e3&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=laura_ingraham_buffer
Averageman
03-05-17, 16:07
Here is the evidence, two FISA court issued warrants requested by the Obama Administration specifically to spy on the Trump Campaign. The agencies ordered to be involved in the inquiry were the FBI, CIA, NSA, Justice Department, and Treasury Department Financial Crimes Enforcement Network. Essentially, Obama ordered all agencies to crawl up Trump's ass to find evidence linking them to Russian hacking once hackers exposed the content from the DNC e-mails showing top members of the DNC involved in a wide variety of criminal activity. However the hacks themselves have never been proven to have originated from Russia as they originated from inside the US and possibly some government agencies themselves. Trump needs to do a full investigation of the abuse of power and corruption from the DNC and Obama Administration as well as an investigation into the actual content exposed by the leaks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA6QLbFi0do
7n6
This is hilarious on so many levels.
Of all of the things to take the Obama Administration down, it will be this..
The long litany of questionable Executive decisions by Obama wont be what takes him down. The long list of scandals his Administration was involved in wont take him down.
It will be this, wire tapping Trump during the Election.
The long arm of the Law is finally going after the Deep State.
We can only hope... But I'll believe it when I see it
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-05-17, 16:23
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bush-ag-wiretap-suspicion-acting-russian-agent/story?id=45923640&cid=clicksource_903_null_dp_image
If you read between the lines of Mukasey's discussion, this means that:
There was no warrant that met the criminal requirements.
They then went and got one based in foreign surveillance, which I assume is a lower standard.
As of late January there was no evidence of Trump wrong doing.
There is no crime- 'there is nothing to prosecute'- the only crime is that the Russians hacked the Podesta emails.
Why should we be surprised that BHO was using the CIA for opposition research when they used the IRS for silencing domestic opponents.
That is far, far, far more dangerous then the Russians releasing the actual statements of the DNC. Especially coupled with the increasing chance that the DNC hack was internal.
ETA: Plus it just adds to the story about the IC and the Deep State having it in for Trump..
Averageman
03-05-17, 16:38
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bush-ag-wiretap-suspicion-acting-russian-agent/story?id=45923640&cid=clicksource_903_null_dp_image
If you read between the lines of Mukasey's discussion, this means that:
There was no warrant that met the criminal requirements.
They then went and got one based in foreign surveillance, which I assume is a lower standard.
As of late January there was no evidence of Trump wrong doing.
There is no crime- 'there is nothing to prosecute'- the only crime is that the Russians hacked the Podesta emails.
Why should we be surprised that BHO was using the CIA for opposition research when they used the IRS for silencing domestic opponents.
That is far, far, far more dangerous then the Russians releasing the actual statements of the DNC. Especially coupled with the increasing chance that the DNC hack was internal.
ETA: Plus it just adds to the story about the IC and the Deep State having it in for Trump..
Exactly;
I had the same thoughts as I was making dinner.
RetroRevolver77
03-05-17, 17:22
Now it's a matter of finding those individuals that actively violated their oath to the Constitution to investigate a political candidate on behalf of a corrupt political party.
7n6
and you can keep your doctors ! and IRS never targeted conservatives
yeah he has a good track record of being honest
he can say all he wants but its a lie as that is what he does
nothing will stop him from lies about wire tapping who he hates
horseman234
03-05-17, 19:55
Somehow government agencies with Obama as president infiltrated reporters Cheryl Atkinson's and James Rosen's communications. It's not unbelievable that they targeted Trump. Obama may not have directly ordered it, but it's completely rational to believe that someone like Lynch could have using the supposed Russian connection as a reason.
ForTehNguyen
03-05-17, 21:36
notice the obama spokesman statement only said "obama and white house officials"? They didnt say anything about the obama administration nor did they deny that trump was tapped.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-05-17, 22:01
notice the obama spokesman statement only said "obama and white house officials"? They didnt say anything about the obama administration nor did they deny that trump was tapped.
It is amazing how the MSM can spin a set of circumstances and facts that objectively clear Trump, but here we are almost a year into the dossier and three months full Russian mode and.... nothing.
Firefly: "We are lazy, angry, violent, highly prejudiced, impatient, and easily bored. On our good days."
D.H. Lawrence: “The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted.”
I'm going to be so bummed if this is not true, it will be the first truly concerning thing about Trump so far. I can handle him tweeking the media all day long but if this is just some "screw with you" game he pulled out of his ass then that is a bit more than talking about fake news.
On the other hand, if this plays out and it turns out Obama or one of his cronies actually pulled a Dick Nixon, I will laugh for an entire year.
Firefly: "We are lazy, angry, violent, highly prejudiced, impatient, and easily bored. On our good days."
D.H. Lawrence: “The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted.”
I do not quite understand the context of this comparison be it positive or negative. But I will defend my thesis.
We are indeed lazy. This isn't always bad. I did not say we were inefficient. Most inventors were lazy men looking for a way to skip the BS. Which complements our impatience. We literally invented ATMs and Drive Thru burger joints. Hell, we at one time had places where girls on rollerskates brought us our food because they were walking too slow.
We are indeed an angry folk. This isn't bad as our anger derives from passion. We still haven't gotten over being the Colonials or Undesireables. We openly look down on Nobility and Monarch alike.
Violent goes without saying. We may have gotten bored and walked but never truly surrendered. They knew we were there though.
Prejudiced? We totally are. We put on our church behavior but really if you ain't us, you ain't nothing. Lots of other countries have "racial issues" but the black folks there got nothing really to bitch about. They appropriate our barbaric and cruel history as an excuse yet....
Really, even when "race relations" are bad, we still ultimately get along far better than these other places do. Because...
We are easily bored. We can be at each others throats but if someone has a new toy, cool idea, or interesting thing then we drop all our shit and go hang out.
Everybody else has this concept of class and propriety and we just want good times.
Perhaps America is a land of nihilists and sociopaths. Narcissists and Self-Idolators.
But perhaps that is what makes us great. All these other lands have on their side is boring go-nowhere history and outdated architecture. Languages that offend the ear. Ideas that are lame.
Sometimes just showing up and saying "Hey y'all I'm American" can cause a talkative room to go into an awkward, strained silence.
That's why the globalists plot against us so. To pussy us up so we lose our gangster rep.
To start using pidets and inquiring about pronouns.
That"s why they are plotting against us and throwing crap at us hoping it sticks.
And I say, RESIST! RESIST!
Nowhere else can you have the life we have here.
I mean if I were so inclined, I could ride around with a 308 AR, get an obscene Big Mac and fries, blast some metal or hardcore gangster rap, smoke like a chimney, have relations with some mixed broad, and go home where nobody can bother me and binge watch bizarre films on a tablet.
That's freedom gents. Thats worth going fave first into the mud riddled with bullets over.
I mean.....I like the smell of ghetto BBQ joints, the occasional sound of gunfire at night, and the fact that no matter where I go in these United States it is as different as it is the same and nobody expects anything from me. No bowing, no gentility.....
Just good old fashioned "Hey you got a cute rack. I'll have a Quarter Pounder".
I knew a guy, gone now from this godless world, and I asked him once what he wanted for heaven. He just said "Sitting on a porch, drinking some Colt 45, and listening to Earth Wind and Fire"
and he meant it.
They alk want us in this bullshit facebook world of thought control where we all have google profiles like some name and number to be untermensch for their elitism.
Don't fall for it!
tl;dr I love America
Averageman
03-06-17, 06:22
Interesting article here;
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2017/02/18/no-one-mentions-that-the-russian-trail-leads-to-democratic-lobbyists/#19ca7a1e3991
The media has focused not on K Street but on the Russian ties of President Donald Trump’s associates. They list the reprehensible Kremlin-associated figures for whom members of his inner circle worked, the most notorious being Viktor Yanukovich, the deposed president of Ukraine, and fugitive oligarch, Dymtro Firtash. But both of these “repulsive” figures were also advised by Democratic top dogs, who likely earned large multiples of what the “small fry” Trump associates took home.
In pushing its Manchurian-candidate-Trump narrative, the media fail to mention the much deeper ties of Democratic lobbyists to Russia. Don’t worry, the media seems to say: Even though they are representing Russia, the lobbyists are good upstanding citizens, not like the Trump people. They can be trusted with such delicate matters.
It would appear that in their rush to tie the POTUS to the Russains, these guys have forgotten that many of their own people had very close ties with Russia and were lobbying on their behalf.
One might wonder that if these accusations about bugging Trump Tower are true, just who had access to that information and why?
Our IC is as leaky as an old rowboat and it would appear some have been using it for their own gains.
Edit to add;
It wasn't going to be too long before someone overplayed their hand with this now was it?
If you are in the IC and begin leaking this stuff to the Press it isn't going to take very long for the people you are going against start connecting the dots. Perhaps Trump even privately contracted some former players at this game for some help doing just that?
Flynn had only so many conversations with the players on the Russian side. If those conversations all took place in Trump Towers and information was gathered beyond the "time limit", well there you go...
I'm anxious to see just who signed the documentation for that and where the request came from.
Someone laid a minefield for this Administration and along with the minefield orchestrated leaks to various players in the media. If this is played right that sucking sound you hear may well be a major portion of the swamp being drained.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-06-17, 09:31
On Reddit, they are saying that the lack of evidence coming out is because they are building a Treason case and there will be capital punishment (death penalty) on the line for Trump people.
They have lost there ever-loving minds over there. The worst is that the MSM has spun this so far from reality, that when their crazy spin it again it is like quantum crazy in their minds. Conspiracies and charges coming out of no where, and a new election to put HRC in.
Everyone needs to watch the Mukasey video and read behind the lines of the Clapper video and watch how guarded his answers are.
Actually, I always am looking for ways to make money off of stupid. Anyone know how we can set up bets that no one will be charged with Treason from the Trump associates?
Doc Safari
03-06-17, 10:12
This country is doomed to degenerate into a civil war if not outright anarchy.
We will never know the truth about who wiretapped or hacked whom. No one on this forum even has the capability to dig to the bottom and report back what really happened.
Start storing food, water, ammo, and medical supplies because this is just the sled at the top of the cliff before it careens to the bottom.
Firefly: "We are lazy, angry, violent, highly prejudiced, impatient, and easily bored. On our good days."
D.H. Lawrence: “The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted.”
Positive. I much prefer to be left alone, but we seem to be in the days of bugs and windshields. Some people are hell-bent on stealing our lives for their evil, hallucinated dreams. Freedom just drives them nuts.
As you say, FIDO.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-06-17, 10:40
This country is doomed to degenerate into a civil war if not outright anarchy.
We will never know the truth about who wiretapped or hacked whom. No one on this forum even has the capability to dig to the bottom and report back what really happened.
Start storing food, water, ammo, and medical supplies because this is just the sled at the top of the cliff before it careens to the bottom.
In a country where we struggle to get 70% of the people to vote? We have noisy factions, but WTF are they going to do? If anything, you get a cuckolding of Trump by some establishment cabal.
On Reddit, they are saying that the lack of evidence coming out is because they are building a Treason case and there will be capital punishment (death penalty) on the line for Trump people.
They have lost there ever-loving minds over there. The worst is that the MSM has spun this so far from reality, that when their crazy spin it again it is like quantum crazy in their minds. Conspiracies and charges coming out of no where, and a new election to put HRC in.
Everyone needs to watch the Mukasey video and read behind the lines of the Clapper video and watch how guarded his answers are.
Actually, I always am looking for ways to make money off of stupid. Anyone know how we can set up bets that no one will be charged with Treason from the Trump associates?
I have seen this video several times. http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/02/28/adam-schiff-russia-trump-investigation-intv-erin.cnn/video/playlists/erin-burnett-outfront/
I had not seen the Clapper video. <iframe src="http://www.nbcnews.com/widget/video-embed/890509379597" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Shorter Clapper Video. <iframe src="http://www.nbcnews.com/widget/video-embed/890505795832" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
And the Clapper I remember from the 1980's! https://youtu.be/ypmI-heWqF8
Doc Safari
03-06-17, 10:50
In a country where we struggle to get 70% of the people to vote? We have noisy factions, but WTF are they going to do? If anything, you get a cuckolding of Trump by some establishment cabal.
I think the powers that be will use this whole thing to cause factional oppositions to spiral out of control until they can stir up the left and right to be killing each other in the streets. People like Soros who want the US weakened are trying to set the American people against each other, and it's slowly working.
I know that's a helluva downer first thing Monday morning, but I just don't see all of this going anywhere but South. If Trump is smart he will start secretly hiring and training a private security force because, trust me friends, the day will come when his opposition will openly try to assassinate him. They are most likely already working on it. And I don't think this time people will just shed tears like they did for JFK. This time people will start taking the law into their own hands to "get back" at the establishment.
I just don't see people being able to step back from the brink this time. We are waging a Cold War WITHIN the US this time, and if Trump gets assassinated or something else drastically out of the ordinary happens, I think it will turn into a hot war of left and right going at it for real.
Averageman
03-06-17, 11:03
Well considering we have evidence that there were two requests to tap and one was disapproved, it makes you wonder if the second was approved. I'm guessing it was, wh signed off and who requested would be very relevant at this point.
It's kind of odd that Comey wants the DOJ to come forward and deny it, perhaps at some point he wasn't in the loop anymore? Think about that for a minute, why would the DOJ conduct something like that without a nod to Comey?
I'm guessing if they (The DOJ) could openly deny such a thing they would immediately do so, so where is the denial?
At what point and why would they go forward without Comey, then think about the timing of all of this and what had taken place?
I'm guessing it is the real deal, I'm also guessing that the DOJ questioned Comey's loyalty so they kept him in the dark.
Not sure yet about a civil war, a hot one that is, but I can definitely see the cold civil war escalating to Cuba Missile Crisis levels. IMO Trump is trying to do something not a soul in American politics and leadership truly wants. He will end up disgraced by any means necessary, legal or illegal. I don't think killing him is the right path. Killing him will make him a martyr for the conservative movement and harden folks who are already distrusting of central government. They need to disgrace him in a very public and harsh way to put both doubt and fear into folks on the other side of the coin. They will do everything they can to destroy him, his closest confidants and most likely go after his family. An example needs to be made so the next guy who thinks about a political swamp shits his pants mid thought.
There will be no swamp drained. There will be no reform. We may slow our speed round the drain a bit, but down the drain we will go. Critical mass and all that jazz.
Doc Safari
03-06-17, 11:33
Not sure yet about a civil war, a hot one that is, but I can definitely see the cold civil war escalating to Cuba Missile Crisis levels. IMO Trump is trying to do something not a soul in American politics and leadership truly wants. He will end up disgraced by any means necessary, legal or illegal. I don't think killing him is the right path. Killing him will make him a martyr for the conservative movement and harden folks who are already distrusting of central government. They need to disgrace him in a very public and harsh way to put both doubt and fear into folks on the other side of the coin. They will do everything they can to destroy him, his closest confidants and most likely go after his family. An example needs to be made so the next guy who thinks about a political swamp shits his pants mid thought.
There will be no swamp drained. There will be no reform. We may slow our speed round the drain a bit, but down the drain we will go. Critical mass and all that jazz.
Even large portions of Trump's own party can't stand him. As soon as he's out of the way by legal or illegal means, they will come forward proclaiming how the country has been saved from a madman (or similar appellation), and the establishment Republicans will celebrate.
I do really think this could escalate into a hot civil war. Maybe it's a little improbable right now, but all it takes is a few bubba eruptions as a result of an assassination or the attempt, and it's ON, brother.
I actually think enough on both sides want it that they can't wait. Nobody is backing down this time. This one continues until it's finished, or until the country is finished.
Sad, sad way for this great nation to go out.
Averageman
03-06-17, 11:34
A little compiled history of "O's" wire taps.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/03/draft-heres-the-complete-list-of-victims-from-obamas-many-wiretaps/
that's a hell of a list and it doesn't cover the dirty tricks like sicking the IRS on people and other fun tricks that were used.
One might ask themselves, Now that Sessions has recused himself from the investigation, who will be in charge of that at the DOJ?
A bit more here to add to this;
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/03/06/michael-goodwin-why-trump-is-right-to-suspect-that-s-target-dirty-game.html
The Video explains a lot.
The original story that is linked in the video.
http://nypost.com/2017/03/05/leaks-and-unnamed-sources-fuel-medias-plan-to-destroy-trump/
In that context, we cannot ignore an ominous warning the top Democrat in the Senate issued before the inauguration. At that point, Trump already had made accusations that intelligence officials were leaking secret information in a bid to deny him the presidency.
“Let me tell you, you take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you,” Chuck Schumer said on television. “So even for a practical, supposedly hard-nosed businessman, he’s being really dumb to do this.”
Yes, this really stinks and considering Clapper had denied spying on American Citizens while spying on American Citizens, what's his word worth?
The biggest problem I see is that so many people have gotten away with so much bad behavior for so long, it can't be much of a stretch for someone to go WAY across the line expecting to get away with it. Now that someone has come out and said it, I know I'm not alone in considering JFK's fate when thinking of Trump today. He's a direct and persistent threat to the Deep State and they aren't going to go down quietly. :ph34r:
A little compiled history of "O's" wire taps.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/03/draft-heres-the-complete-list-of-victims-from-obamas-many-wiretaps/
that's a hell of a list and it doesn't cover the dirty tricks like sicking the IRS on people and other fun tricks that were used.
One might ask themselves, Now that Sessions has recused himself from the investigation, who will be in charge of that at the DOJ?
A bit more here to add to this;
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/03/06/michael-goodwin-why-trump-is-right-to-suspect-that-s-target-dirty-game.html
The Video explains a lot.
The original story that is linked in the video.
http://nypost.com/2017/03/05/leaks-and-unnamed-sources-fuel-medias-plan-to-destroy-trump/
In that context, we cannot ignore an ominous warning the top Democrat in the Senate issued before the inauguration. At that point, Trump already had made accusations that intelligence officials were leaking secret information in a bid to deny him the presidency.
“Let me tell you, you take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you,” Chuck Schumer said on television. “So even for a practical, supposedly hard-nosed businessman, he’s being really dumb to do this.”
Yes, this really stinks and considering Clapper had denied spying on American Citizens while spying on American Citizens, what's his word worth?
That makes me hate that shit bag schumer all the more.
But honestly, fvck it. If this is what our government has devolved into then burn it to the ground.
Averageman
03-06-17, 12:54
I'm pretty sure those that were and still are left behind and still loyal to the Obama Administration are leaking this stuff. They've left a minefield of traps and tricks behind and the leaks just keep on coming.Ferreting these guys out and getting rid of them might well take eight or more years and will be quite a challenge.
You have to hand it to Schumer and Pelosi, they got Sessions to bow out just before he could have been very effective for this Administration, especially in getting the identities and FISA leak information out there.
The funny thing is, I'm guessing Trump thinks he may "Know" things were being bugged because of the location and times of specific conversations that have been leaked.
I think the powers that be will use this whole thing to cause factional oppositions to spiral out of control until they can stir up the left and right to be killing each other in the streets. People like Soros who want the US weakened are trying to set the American people against each other, and it's slowly working.
I know that's a helluva downer first thing Monday morning, but I just don't see all of this going anywhere but South. If Trump is smart he will start secretly hiring and training a private security force because, trust me friends, the day will come when his opposition will openly try to assassinate him. They are most likely already working on it. And I don't think this time people will just shed tears like they did for JFK. This time people will start taking the law into their own hands to "get back" at the establishment.
I just don't see people being able to step back from the brink this time. We are waging a Cold War WITHIN the US this time, and if Trump gets assassinated or something else drastically out of the ordinary happens, I think it will turn into a hot war of left and right going at it for real.
"Breaking News: We have just learned moments ago that Air Force One suffered a catastrophic malfunction and crashed on its return to Joint Base Andrews killing all on board..."
No need to make it as messy as JFK...
I'm pretty sure those that were and still are left behind and still loyal to the Obama Administration are leaking this stuff. They've left a minefield of traps and tricks behind and the leaks just keep on coming.Ferreting these guys out and getting rid of them might well take eight or more years and will be quite a challenge.
You have to hand it to Schumer and Pelosi, they got Sessions to bow out just before he could have been very effective for this Administration, especially in getting the identities and FISA leak information out there.
The funny thing is, I'm guessing Trump thinks he may "Know" things were being bugged because of the location and times of specific conversations that have been leaked.
I'm not so sure Sessions sidelined himself in that regard. He could simply say "I'm not investigating the allegations against President Trump regarding Russian influence (if any) on the election. I'm looking into the allegations that the Obama Administration wiretapped candidate Donald Trump or members of his team." :)
If Trump is smart he will start secretly hiring and training a private security force because, trust me friends, the day will come when his opposition will openly try to assassinate him. They are most likely already working on it. And I don't think this time people will just shed tears like they did for JFK. This time people will start taking the law into their own hands to "get back" at the establishment.
Quite possible. Decided to watch a fox show Sunday night, Last Man On Earth. Haven't seen it since the first couple epis in the first season. It was a look back before the virus eradicated the earth and these brilliant left writers featured presidential funeral procession motorcades from POTUS Pence down through the cabinet to Paul Ryan. Trump was already out of the picture. The left fascists wish this, they dream about this. We promptly switched back to network news, not a lot of choices these days to view. Disgusting and I don't think they will stop til the outcome is like Doc is describing. Yeah, I'm a glass half empty.
Averageman
03-06-17, 14:09
I'm not so sure Sessions sidelined himself in that regard. He could simply say "I'm not investigating the allegations against President Trump regarding Russian influence (if any) on the election. I'm looking into the allegations that the Obama Administration wiretapped candidate Donald Trump or members of his team." :)
Or he could just say, F' that, this has gone too far and go in guns a blazing.
I'm of the opinion that pushing Sessions out was a set up to get their own "boy" in there to cover the dirty work that took place.
It has gone beyond fair play and at this point the gloves need to come off. If there is evidence that someone bugged the conversations, telephonic, e-mail or actual someone needs to swing from a rope on this one.
If he wants to curtail the possibility of these guys going rogue on him he needs to make a real example of someone who is guilty.
Averageman
03-06-17, 14:28
Interesting Development;
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/06/cia-doj-sued-over-leaks-classified-info-about-former-nsa-flynn.html
The CIA and Departments of Justice and Treasury are being sued by a prominent legal organization for their role in leaking highly classified material as part of an effort to undermine the credibility of former Trump administration National Security Adviser Michael Flynn, according to an announcement.
However, the Washington Free Beacon and multiple other news outlets have reported on a campaign by former Obama administration officials and loyalists to spread highly classified information in a bid to handicap the Trump administration.
In addition to Flynn, Attorney General Jeff Sessions and White House adviser Sebastian Gorka have been the subject of multiple leaks aimed at jeopardizing their positions in the administration.
So it would appear they are pursuing the fight using more than one avenue?
Edit to add another Interesting Development.
Comey asks subordinates to ID who had access to FISA information...
http://video.foxnews.com/v/5349449513001/?playlist_id=2114913880001#sp=show-clips
So the DOJ didn't get back to Comey immediately and with a denial?
Makes you wonder doesn't it?
We know these guys are corrupt. But somr of this stuff goes a little too deep. If true...... Damn.....
I guess so much for checks and balance.
Civil war..... march on the Mason-Dixon kind of stuff is not going to happen guys. Nope.
Maybe a coup....A coup could be the be the catalyst event of a sporty situation and people start pointing guns at each other.. God help us all if that one happens though.. the 2nd Amendment was intended to be the ultimate insurance policy for functioning government. Oddly enough, because you're going to laugh at me, but I actually have a family member, not me but my wife's family, that is a very well-known constitutional lawyer it has been on major news shows a bunch of times. No, it's not Levin.
Anyway, the way he explained it to me, is that the 2nd Amendment was intended as the ultimate insurance policy. It was designed as the mechanism so that people in power could not have unlimited power. And know that there could be the potential for an uprising from the citizenry. A lot of things have to happen first though. There's no way people going to go out and take up arms until they are hungry and thirsty. I hate to say it, but most people just don't have balls enough anymore. Get people hungry and thirsty, that's a different story.
I do take great comfort in the fact that if only 1% of Americans take up arms, they become the largest fighting force there is.
I am however with Steyr though. I think it's going to be absolute funny as ****ing hell if mr. Zero pulled a Richard Nixon and this is what brings him down. The problem with that one though, is if that is what actually happened, what ****ing else has happened?
Averageman
03-06-17, 15:09
We know these guys are corrupt. But somr of this stuff goes a little too deep. If true...... Damn.....
I am however with Steyr though. I think it's going to be absolute funny as ****ing hell if mr. Zero pulled a Richard Nixon and this is what brings him down. The problem with that one though, is if that is what actually happened, what ****ing else has happened?
Comey asked the DOJ to deny it, now he is asking for a subordinate to come forward? Something sure isn't right with this.
Just to add, who in that Administration would have let Comey in on the game once he flipped back and forth with the Clinton investigation?
Perhaps Comey has become a dupe?
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-06-17, 15:21
Can someone explain Title 3 IC entities? Clapper seems to make a point that he, or no one that he knows of, got a FISA warrant- but he makes it clear that other people could have. He also states that he never saw evidence of Trump colluding with the Russians. But the MSM headline is "No Wiretap of Trump" which is not wholly correct or even really the biggest part of his comments.
We know these guys are corrupt. But somr of this stuff goes a little too deep. If true...... Damn.....
I guess so much for checks and balance.
Civil war..... march on the Mason-Dixon kind of stuff is not going to happen guys. Nope.
Maybe a coup....A coup could be the be the catalyst event of a sporty situation and people start pointing guns at each other.. God help us all if that one happens though.. the 2nd Amendment was intended to be the ultimate insurance policy for functioning government. Oddly enough, because you're going to laugh at me, but I actually have a family member, not me but my wife's family, that is a very well-known constitutional lawyer it has been on major news shows a bunch of times. No, it's not Levin.
Anyway, the way he explained it to me, is that the 2nd Amendment was intended as the ultimate insurance policy. It was designed as the mechanism so that people in power could not have unlimited power. And know that there could be the potential for an uprising from the citizenry. A lot of things have to happen first though. There's no way people going to go out and take up arms until they are hungry and thirsty. I hate to say it, but most people just don't have balls enough anymore. Get people hungry and thirsty, that's a different story.
I do take great comfort in the fact that if only 1% of Americans take up arms, they become the largest fighting force there is.
I am however with Steyr though. I think it's going to be absolute funny as ****ing hell if mr. Zero pulled a Richard Nixon and this is what brings him down. The problem with that one though, is if that is what actually happened, what ****ing else has happened?
I honestly believe the Obama administration has done Nixon level shit. I just think he surrounds himself with sycophantic loyalists who either do it unbidden (at least not outright) and most of them aren't stupid enough to leave a digital trail like the DNC and Podesta did. Because of that I have no realistic hope he'll be brought down by this or anything else. His level of Teflon makes Bill Clinton look like an unseasoned cast iron skillet. :(
Comey asked the DOJ to deny it, now he is asking for a subordinate to come forward? Something sure isn't right with this.
Just to add, who in that Administration would have let Comey in on the game once he flipped back and forth with the Clinton investigation?
Perhaps Comey has become a dupe?
I think the Obama administration finally came to grips with what Comey really is, a narcissist unbound by political ideology.
Moose-Knuckle
03-06-17, 15:29
Obama moved into a house two miles from the White House, what other President has ever done that and not moved back to where they came from?
What other President ever had his former Chief of Staff move into his mansion?
Report: Valerie Jarrett Moves in With Obama to Set Up Anti-Trump 'Nerve Center'
http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/03/02/valerie-jarrett-moves-obama-plot-against-trump-dc-mansion
Averageman
03-06-17, 15:38
Can someone explain Title 3 IC entities? Clapper seems to make a point that he, or no one that he knows of, got a FISA warrant- but he makes it clear that other people could have. He also states that he never saw evidence of Trump colluding with the Russians. But the MSM headline is "No Wiretap of Trump" which is not wholly correct or even really the biggest part of his comments.
Surprised about the media playing favorites?
All Comey has managed to do is to ask for the DOJ to deny it and when the crickets finally stopped chirping he asked for a subordinate to come forward. I know he's the FBI Director and everything, but does he have a clue about what he is asking for?
At this point someone who has knowledge and the evidence Comey is asking for is likely in a hell of a lot of trouble. At best that person had better be hoping they get a break for coming forward with the evidence.
The leaks alone should be worth twenty years.
I would seriously not be surprised if Trump has some evidence he is holding back and waiting for the right time to use.
Obama moved into a house two miles from the White House, what other President has ever done that and not moved back to where they came from?
What other President ever had his former Chief of Staff move into his mansion?
Report: Valerie Jarrett Moves in With Obama to Set Up Anti-Trump 'Nerve Center'
http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/03/02/valerie-jarrett-moves-obama-plot-against-trump-dc-mansion
I'm actually less worried that he'll go after Trump specifically, and more worried that he intends to create Soros style organization to fundamentally alter the political landscape of America. He's going to be flush with a $200M contract for his next book, plus you know there will be people lining up globally to contribute to whatever PAC or "foundation" he sets up. He could literally make the Clinton Foundation pale by comparison in just a few years.
He may literally be more dangerous at his new digs than in the Oval Office. :(
Averageman
03-06-17, 15:47
Great Point.
He went from Community Organizer to Leftist Hero and Political Agitator.
Is there anyone who doesn't think Obama would have this done? Under the guise of FISA, tax evasion, animal cruelty, jay walking, or anything else they could come up with?
Obama and others have been very quick to speak in very clear terms about what they did NOT do, much like Pelosi stating she did not meet with "the current" Russia ambassador. The question to me is if there was wire tapping or ANY form of information gathering done in any capacity.
Moose-Knuckle
03-06-17, 15:52
I'm actually less worried that he'll go after Trump specifically, and more worried that he intends to create Soros style organization to fundamentally alter the political landscape of America. He's going to be flush with a $200M contract for his next book, plus you know there will be people lining up globally to contribute to whatever PAC or "foundation" he sets up. He could literally make the Clinton Foundation pale by comparison in just a few years.
He may literally be more dangerous at his new digs than in the Oval Office. :(
That is what he is doing.
Organizing for Action is a nonprofit 5014 organization and community organizing project that advocates for the agenda of former U.S. President Barack Obama.
https://www.ofa.us/about-ofa/
ditto
Trump is current distraction and taking away some of what he did which he did not plan on
but there long term goals are much more to destroy the US and turn it into some idea of utopian leftist dream that cant exist in real life
with them in ultimate power
I'm actually less worried that he'll go after Trump specifically, and more worried that he intends to create Soros style organization to fundamentally alter the political landscape of America. He's going to be flush with a $200M contract for his next book, plus you know there will be people lining up globally to contribute to whatever PAC or "foundation" he sets up. He could literally make the Clinton Foundation pale by comparison in just a few years.
He may literally be more dangerous at his new digs than in the Oval Office. :(
Disagree with most of what is posted here. Trump changed the narrative by daring them to put up or shut up.
- Nobody talking about Trumps ties to Russia now, suddenly there is zero evidence.
- If there is evidence, how was it obtained, who ordered it and on what grounds, 1 month before an election?
- If Obama didn't order it, he would have known about it and should have stopped it. He is accountable for the actions of his appointees.
- It also highlights the politicization of the Justice department IE that wench who he fired and others still stinking up the place.
- How did HRC know there was a server in Trump Tower communicating with the Russians as she so boldly tweeted?
- Where are these felony leaks coming from?
Either they is or they isn't and they best figure out which real quick because Sessions is on the prowl.
I can almost guarantee you they were so confident they would win the election, remain in power and cover this all up with HRC and her dunderhead appointees. Trump just blew it all up and it doesn't matter if he is right or wrong about Oh-Zero ordering the monitoring.
Consider all of this in the light of the IRS targeting conservative organizations, the Media being monitored and Fast & Furious among others. -All done by the most "Scandal Free" and transparent administration in the history of the universe.
Disagree with most of what is posted here. Trump changed the narrative by daring them to put up or shut up.
- Nobody talking about Trumps ties to Russia now, suddenly there is zero evidence.
- If there is evidence, how was it obtained, who ordered it and on what grounds, 1 month before an election?
- If Obama didn't order it, he would have known about it and should have stopped it. He is accountable for the actions of his appointees.
- It also highlights the politicization of the Justice department IE that wench who he fired and others still stinking up the place.
- How did HRC know there was a server in Trump Tower communicating with the Russians as she so boldly tweeted?
- Where are these felony leaks coming from?
Either they is or they isn't and they best figure out which real quick because Sessions is on the prowl.
I can almost guarantee you they were so confident they would win the election, remain in power and cover this all up with HRC and her dunderhead appointees. Trump just blew it all up and it doesn't matter if he is right or wrong about Oh-Zero ordering the monitoring.
Consider all of this in the light of the IRS targeting conservative organizations, the Media being monitored and Fast & Furious among others. -All done by the most "Scandal Free" and transparent administration in the history of the universe.
I totally forgot about that. IF, someone in the Obama Administration shared classified foreign intelligence surveillance information with a political opponent in the midst of an election? Well that will make the DNC sharing campaign questions with Hillary pale by comparison! :(
Yep and you can bet your sweet behind Loretta "Diversity Candidate" Lynch is up to her armpits in this one. When was that meeting with BJ Klinton? June as well, I recall...wasn't the first FISA request denied in June? Hmmmm, interesting timing there as well.
I could be completely wrong, but there is something here and it probably isn't good.
Doc Safari
03-06-17, 17:07
Civil war..... march on the Mason-Dixon kind of stuff is not going to happen guys. Nope.
?
Not that kind of civil war. "We have your daughter." "Everybody's gotta shit sometimes." "Still sleep with a pistol under your pillow?"
THAT kind of civil war.
Averageman
03-06-17, 17:34
Looking around and reading a bit here and there, a lot of people seem to be claiming this whole accusation about being bugged is pure BS.
The irony that more than a few of these people at one time were convinced POTUS Bush took down the Twin Towers isn't lost on me.
If the Executive Branch owns the access to these FISA requests (I believe this is correct.) what makes anyone think President Trump didn't do the due diligence to make sure such an investigation was well founded in fact? As has been stated here apparently HRC had an idea what was going on, so what makes people think he doesn't have the evidence?
Outlander Systems
03-06-17, 18:35
Retroactive Surveillance, from Network World, December 2011:
"As the price of digital storage drops and the technology to tap electronic communication improves, authoritarian governments will soon be able to perform retroactive surveillance on anyone within their borders, according to a Brookings Institute report.
These regimes will store every phone call, instant message, email, social media interaction, text message, movements of people and vehicles and public surveillance video and mine it at their leisure, according to “Recording Everything: Digital Storage as an Enabler of Authoritarian Government,” written by John Villaseno, a senior fellow at Brookings and a professor of electrical engineering at UCLA.
That will enable shadowing people’s movements and communications that took place before the individuals became suspects, he says.
“For example, if an anti-regime demonstrator previously unknown to security services is arrested, it will be possible to go back in time to scrutinize the demonstrator’s phone conversations, automobile travels, and the people he or she met in the months and even years leading up to the arrest,” the report says.
“These enormous databases of captured information will create what amounts to a surveillance time machine. … This will fundamentally change the dynamics of dissent, insurgency and revolution,” the report says.
Villaseno draws on knowledge gained from recent overthrows of such authoritarian regimes to support his argument that such a scenario is not just possible but likely. He notes that when the government of Libya fell, insurgents found equipment that had captured 30 million to 40 million minutes of phone conversations per month and enabled the government to read activist emails. There have been reports that the government of Syria wants to build communications intercepts as well, he says."
.
..
...
....fortunately for us, there's a Fourth Amendment that prevents that type of thing from happening.
:rolleyes:
Bill O'Riely has a good clip here in the situation. https://www.facebook.com/FoxNews/videos/10155175154451336/
Can someone explain Title 3 IC entities? Clapper seems to make a point that he, or no one that he knows of, got a FISA warrant- but he makes it clear that other people could have.
T3 is more like a standard warrant and not issued by FISA. For example, organized crime figures (think Sopranos) who had their phones monitored, was done on T3 not FISA.
He should not even be talking about FISA warrants.
Remember Clapper also testified in front of Congress that NSA does not collect data on Americans.
Retroactive Surveillance, from Network World, December 2011:
"As the price of digital storage drops and the technology to tap electronic communication improves, authoritarian governments will soon be able to perform retroactive surveillance on anyone within their borders, according to a Brookings Institute report.
These regimes will store every phone call, instant message, email, social media interaction, text message, movements of people and vehicles and public surveillance video and mine it at their leisure, according to “Recording Everything: Digital Storage as an Enabler of Authoritarian Government,” written by John Villaseno, a senior fellow at Brookings and a professor of electrical engineering at UCLA.
That will enable shadowing people’s movements and communications that took place before the individuals became suspects, he says.
“For example, if an anti-regime demonstrator previously unknown to security services is arrested, it will be possible to go back in time to scrutinize the demonstrator’s phone conversations, automobile travels, and the people he or she met in the months and even years leading up to the arrest,” the report says.
“These enormous databases of captured information will create what amounts to a surveillance time machine. … This will fundamentally change the dynamics of dissent, insurgency and revolution,” the report says.
Villaseno draws on knowledge gained from recent overthrows of such authoritarian regimes to support his argument that such a scenario is not just possible but likely. He notes that when the government of Libya fell, insurgents found equipment that had captured 30 million to 40 million minutes of phone conversations per month and enabled the government to read activist emails. There have been reports that the government of Syria wants to build communications intercepts as well, he says."
.
..
...
....fortunately for us, there's a Fourth Amendment that prevents that type of thing from happening.
:rolleyes:
BwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahHahahahahahahahahahahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....
4th Amendment, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Most people don't even understand the 1st Amendment but let Facebook start blocking something and all the constitutional scholars show up "But mah free speech!"
wildcard600
03-06-17, 22:59
THE SMOKING GUN!!!!!
ROFL !!!
Outlander Systems
03-07-17, 07:06
That...
...was AWESOME!!!
THE SMOKING GUN!!!!!
Averageman
03-07-17, 12:34
Interesting update;
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/07/doj-nominee-pushes-back-on-dem-calls-for-russia-special-prosecutor.html
President Trump’s nominee for deputy attorney general, at his confirmation hearing Tuesday, pushed back on Democratic calls to name an independent special prosecutor to oversee the Justice Department’s probe into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential campaign.
Democrats have shifted focus to nominee Rod Rosenstein in the wake of Attorney General Jeff Sessions recusing himself last week from any such investigations. If confirmed, Rosenstein would be the point person on the election interference investigation.
Rosenstein, though, said he is not aware of any circumstances that would demand his recusal, though he left the door open by saying he would become familiar with the evidence and reassess. But he would not commit to naming a special counsel.
“I’m not aware of any requirement for me to recuse at this time,” Rosenstein said, under separate questioning from Republican Sen. Charles Grassley.
And a bit from this idiot;
Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., said at Tuesday’s hearing that Rosenstein has “impressive credentials” and she does not question his “integrity.” But she said, “We need steel spines and there is a real danger the Justice Department could become politicized.”
Diane seems about eight years late to this game, but I'm guessing She thinks Lynch and Holder were unbiased?
Interesting update;
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/07/doj-nominee-pushes-back-on-dem-calls-for-russia-special-prosecutor.html
President Trump’s nominee for deputy attorney general, at his confirmation hearing Tuesday, pushed back on Democratic calls to name an independent special prosecutor to oversee the Justice Department’s probe into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential campaign.
Democrats have shifted focus to nominee Rod Rosenstein in the wake of Attorney General Jeff Sessions recusing himself last week from any such investigations. If confirmed, Rosenstein would be the point person on the election interference investigation.
Rosenstein, though, said he is not aware of any circumstances that would demand his recusal, though he left the door open by saying he would become familiar with the evidence and reassess. But he would not commit to naming a special counsel.
“I’m not aware of any requirement for me to recuse at this time,” Rosenstein said, under separate questioning from Republican Sen. Charles Grassley.
And a bit from this idiot;
Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., said at Tuesday’s hearing that Rosenstein has “impressive credentials” and she does not question his “integrity.” But she said, “We need steel spines and there is a real danger the Justice Department could become politicized.”
Diane seems about eight years late to this game, but I'm guessing She thinks Lynch and Holder were unbiased?
We really need a new word to describe leftist Democrats. Flaming hypocrite just doesn't cut it anymore. :(
Well well, this gets better and better.
WikiLeaks releases 'entire hacking capacity of the CIA':
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/07/wikileaks-releases-entire-hacking-capacity-cia.html
Averageman
03-07-17, 13:19
Well well, this gets better and better.
WikiLeaks releases 'entire hacking capacity of the CIA':
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/07/wikileaks-releases-entire-hacking-capacity-cia.html
And this, which makes you wonder about the Trump links to Russia thing anyway.
http://russia-insider.com/en/wikileaks-cia-stole-russian-malware-uses-it-misdirect-attribution-cyber-attacks/ri19134
The CIA's Remote Devices Branch's UMBRAGE group collects and maintains a substantial library of attack techniques 'stolen' from malware produced in other states including the Russian Federation.
With UMBRAGE and related projects the CIA cannot only increase its total number of attack types but also misdirect attribution by leaving behind the "fingerprints" of the groups that the attack techniques were stolen from.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-07-17, 13:23
Well well, this gets better and better.
WikiLeaks releases 'entire hacking capacity of the CIA':
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/07/wikileaks-releases-entire-hacking-capacity-cia.html
So, the question isn't who the CIA was hacking, it is more the short list of ..
... sorry, I thought Alexa was giving me dirty looks...
..short list of people that...
...sorry, why does my iPhone screen show a pair of lips with single finger over them...
...list of people that they weren't spying on.
So, the question isn't who the CIA was hacking, it is more the short list of ..
... sorry, I thought Alexa was giving me dirty looks...
..short list of people that...
...sorry, why does my iPhone screen show a pair of lips with single finger over them...
...list of people that they weren't spying on.
Of note in that article is that the "CIA allegedly also maintains a database of malware created in other nations -- WikiLeaks specifically cites Russia -- in order to disguise its own hacking attempts as the work of another group." So maybe the alleged "hacking of the election" was made to LOOK LIKE Russia had done it? I swear, this shit will make your head spin.
And this, which makes you wonder about the Trump links to Russia thing anyway.
http://russia-insider.com/en/wikileaks-cia-stole-russian-malware-uses-it-misdirect-attribution-cyber-attacks/ri19134
The CIA's Remote Devices Branch's UMBRAGE group collects and maintains a substantial library of attack techniques 'stolen' from malware produced in other states including the Russian Federation.
With UMBRAGE and related projects the CIA cannot only increase its total number of attack types but also misdirect attribution by leaving behind the "fingerprints" of the groups that the attack techniques were stolen from.
Yep. This is a cloak-and-dagger saga of epic proportions.....
Outlander Systems
03-07-17, 14:48
I'm excited to see which reporters from "Real" "News" are on the Agency's payroll...
Doc Safari
03-07-17, 14:51
And this, which makes you wonder about the Trump links to Russia thing anyway.
http://russia-insider.com/en/wikileaks-cia-stole-russian-malware-uses-it-misdirect-attribution-cyber-attacks/ri19134
The CIA's Remote Devices Branch's UMBRAGE group collects and maintains a substantial library of attack techniques 'stolen' from malware produced in other states including the Russian Federation.
With UMBRAGE and related projects the CIA cannot only increase its total number of attack types but also misdirect attribution by leaving behind the "fingerprints" of the groups that the attack techniques were stolen from.
So, if the plan of the left was to eventually release a "smoking gun" that Russians hacked the election and helped Trump win, this just blew a great big hole in it. No one would believe it now even with documentation since we know the CIA can fake attribution.
We've gone from "fake news" to "fake evidence".
So, if the plan of the left was to eventually release a "smoking gun" that Russians hacked the election and helped Trump win, this just blew a great big hole in it. No one would believe it now even with documentation since we know the CIA can fake attribution.
We've gone from "fake news" to "fake evidence".
This is getting very CRIMINAL in nature. Sadly those ultimately responsible will never see justice. Maybe someone lower on the totem pole rolls over on them. Sessions should un-recuse himself ASAP and start the heads rolling.
Doc Safari
03-07-17, 14:59
This is getting very CRIMINAL in nature. Sadly those ultimately responsible will never see justice. Maybe someone lower on the totem pole rolls over on them. Sessions should un-recuse himself ASAP and start the heads rolling.
And Donald John Trump, 45th President of the United States of America, just stepped closer to someone from the Deep State activating the assassination option.
Since they can do assassinations without them looking like assassinations and all.....
Outlander Systems
03-07-17, 15:05
You guys need to calm the **** down.
We have the 4th Amendment to stop them!
Doc Safari
03-07-17, 15:08
You guys need to calm the **** down.
We have the 4th Amendment to stop them!
I wasn't scared until Rush Limbaugh sounded scared this morning.
Now I'm worried.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-07-17, 15:12
So, if the plan of the left was to eventually release a "smoking gun" that Russians hacked the election and helped Trump win, this just blew a great big hole in it. No one would believe it now even with documentation since we know the CIA can fake attribution.
We've gone from "fake news" to "fake evidence".
But the Russians fed this to Wikileaks precisely to throw us off the Russian involvement...... ;)
I seriously am starting to wonder what is even true anymore about anything. Am I supposed to believe what a Congressional committee comes out with now? It's not like I was always trusting, but the permeations and twists are worse than those crappy TV shows like Lost.
Well Clancy did just resign as USSS director on March 4th.
Outlander Systems
03-07-17, 15:15
So what if the Russians hacked the election?
The USG hacked my goddamned coffeemaker.
Doc Safari
03-07-17, 15:16
But the Russians fed this to Wikileaks precisely to throw us off the Russian involvement...... ;)
I seriously am starting to wonder what is even true anymore about anything. Am I supposed to believe what a Congressional committee comes out with now? It's not like I was always trusting, but the permeations and twists are worse than those crappy TV shows like Lost.
And this is where you've nailed it and why I say we are sitting on a sled at the top of a cliff. This is going to snowball like nobody's business. How can you trust anything in the government, news media, alternative news, or anything now? If someone tells you that China or Iran has fired on one of our ships--you can't trust them. If someone tells you we are about to enter a recession--you can't trust them. If someone tells you that your 401(k) has earned so and so dollars--you can't trust them.
How do you really know that anything you touch hasn't been compromised by some sort of CIA hack now?
I realize that's somewhat of an exaggeration, but how can you really trust anyone in the public eye now?
But the Russians fed this to Wikileaks precisely to throw us off the Russian involvement...... ;)
I seriously am starting to wonder what is even true anymore about anything. Am I supposed to believe what a Congressional committee comes out with now? It's not like I was always trusting, but the permeations and twists are worse than those crappy TV shows like Lost.
What if it's all a Russian spoof of a CIA spoof of a Russian hack? :confused:
Also, isn't Feinstein on that committee? :rolleyes:
Outlander Systems
03-07-17, 15:30
The trick is determining whether the CIA are the Russians, or whether the Russians are the CIA.
It's like a ****in' Zen riddle in this bitch.
What if it's all a Russian spoof of a CIA spoof of a Russian hack? :confused:
Also, isn't Feinstein on that committee? :rolleyes:
The trick is determining whether the CIA are the Russians, or whether the Russians are the CIA.
It's like a ****in' Zen riddle in this bitch.
They're all CYLONS!!!! Ahhhhhh!!!!!
"How can you really trust ANYONE now?"
All fixed.
"How can you really trust ANYONE now?"
All fixed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRWbIoIR04c
Outlander Systems
03-07-17, 16:36
I just did two lines of powdered wig powder, cranked up some Lee Greenwood, and recited the BoR.
I feel so free.
And this is where you've nailed it and why I say we are sitting on a sled at the top of a cliff. This is going to snowball like nobody's business. How can you trust anything in the government, news media, alternative news, or anything now? If someone tells you that China or Iran has fired on one of our ships--you can't trust them. If someone tells you we are about to enter a recession--you can't trust them. If someone tells you that your 401(k) has earned so and so dollars--you can't trust them.
How do you really know that anything you touch hasn't been compromised by some sort of CIA hack now?
I realize that's somewhat of an exaggeration, but how can you really trust anyone in the public eye now?
It's bizarre, isn't it?
I remember when "Enemy of the State" came out and I thought to myself "Gee, if this is in a freaking movie just imagine what reality is". We probably only have been shown the tip of the iceberg. I used to want Assange's head on a platter, and had mixed feelings about Snowden, but this is rapidly making me cheer those two onward.
Be advised that this place is practically in my zip code. And you thought it was just a movie...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IDABVdrR4gA
Be advised that this place is practically in my zip code. And you thought it was just a movie...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IDABVdrR4gA
Seems the IC already took down your picture...
platoonDaddy
03-07-17, 17:44
Interesting comments from Bongino
Scroll down to the video:
https://www.teaparty.org/former-secret-service-agent-dan-bongino-obamagate-going-blow-wide-open-week-222316/
Averageman
03-07-17, 19:15
Interesting comments from Bongino
Scroll down to the video:
https://www.teaparty.org/former-secret-service-agent-dan-bongino-obamagate-going-blow-wide-open-week-222316/
Add to that, Flynn knew where his conversations took place.
He may not have been totally forthright with VP Pense, but more than likely he remembers exactly where he was when the conversations in question took place.
If Bongino is correct about the Secret Service finding the bug and Flynn's conversation took place in the Trump Tower, putting two and two together got really easy in this case.
Outlander Systems
03-07-17, 19:39
For Chrissakes...
Do dudes not meet up on a park bench, or stash .38 snubbies in newspapers anymore?
It's bizarre, isn't it?
I remember when "Enemy of the State" came out and I thought to myself "Gee, if this is in a freaking movie just imagine what reality is". We probably only have been shown the tip of the iceberg. I used to want Assange's head on a platter, and had mixed feelings about Snowden, but this is rapidly making me cheer those two onward.
I definitely don't think they're the worst actors in this sordid mess. :(
Alright guys, I admit it, it was my cousin and me. He got bored, said "hold my Vodka and watch this!"
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-07-17, 21:24
For Chrissakes...
Do dudes not meet up on a park bench, or stash .38 snubbies in newspapers anymore?
Comrades! The Americans TV show on FX starts season 5 tonight!
Comrades! The Americans TV show on FX starts season 5 tonight!
Almost forgot! Gonna catch the encore.
Spaseba, Tovarisch!
Moose-Knuckle
03-08-17, 00:22
double tap.
Moose-Knuckle
03-08-17, 00:31
I'm excited to see which reporters from "Real" "News" are on the Agency's payroll...
CNN's Anderson Cooper is CIA.
Long before him there was Operation Mockingbird.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDCfTIapds0
And Donald John Trump, 45th President of the United States of America, just stepped closer to someone from the Deep State activating the assassination option.
Since they can do assassinations without them looking like assassinations and all.....
JFK was murdered by the CIA to prevent him from carrying out . . .
"C.I.A.: Maker of Policy, or Tool?", New York Times (April 25, 1966)
It is on the second page of the article, under the heading of "Kennedy's bitterness," and the specific quote there is "splinter the C.I.A. in a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds."
Moose-Knuckle
03-08-17, 00:48
And this is where you've nailed it and why I say we are sitting on a sled at the top of a cliff. This is going to snowball like nobody's business. How can you trust anything in the government, news media, alternative news, or anything now? If someone tells you that China or Iran has fired on one of our ships--you can't trust them. If someone tells you we are about to enter a recession--you can't trust them. If someone tells you that your 401(k) has earned so and so dollars--you can't trust them.
How do you really know that anything you touch hasn't been compromised by some sort of CIA hack now?
I realize that's somewhat of an exaggeration, but how can you really trust anyone in the public eye now?
How could you believe anything before?
The USS Maine was bombed by Spaniards and the USS Maddox was torpedoed by the North Vietnamese?
"Nazi leader Hermann Goering, interviewed by Gustave Gilbert during
the Easter recess of the Nuremberg trials, 1946 April 18, quoted in
Gilbert's book 'Nuremberg Diary.'
Goering: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some
poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that
he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece.
Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in
England, nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is
understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who
determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the
people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or
a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy the people have some
say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the
United States only Congress can declare wars.
Goering: "Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them
they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of
patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in
any country."
Maybe it's really the League of Shadows behind everything....
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-08-17, 01:01
You've got one end of the country thinking that Trump is going to be convicted of Treason and now you've got the other end thinking that Obama will be impeached. (I did that on purpose). I don't think either side is especially excited to get to the truth, the conspiracies are far more motivating and malleable for messaging that the reality of optimizing healthcare, getting our economy growing and dealing with a world full of violent shit heads. What I do know is that we live in a country that even the STASI would find to be a bit over surveilled.
Of course, SIRI is as dumb as a post- so I'm not getting the benefits of the trade off.
Outlander Systems
03-08-17, 05:23
In Soviet America, TV Watches YOU!!!
You've got one end of the country thinking that Trump is going to be convicted of Treason and now you've got the other end thinking that Obama will be impeached. (I did that on purpose). I don't think either side is especially excited to get to the truth, the conspiracies are far more motivating and malleable for messaging that the reality of optimizing healthcare, getting our economy growing and dealing with a world full of violent shit heads. What I do know is that we live in a country that even the STASI would find to be a bit over surveilled.
Of course, SIRI is as dumb as a post- so I'm not getting the benefits of the trade off.
My suspicion is that the simplest explanations are correct:
1) Nobody from the Trump Administration, including Trump himself, is working for the Russians. All of the so called contact is what one would expect from an international business conglomerate.
2) Nobody bugged Trump Tower. Flynn was recorded because the Russian Ambassador was being surveilled which is fairly routine.
All of this excitement is a whole lotta nothing and both sides are more than happy to use it to feed their bases.
platoonDaddy
03-08-17, 06:56
All of this excitement is a whole lotta nothing and both sides are more than happy to use it to feed their bases.
I don't believe so, I agree with, Bernie Kerik "where there's smoke there's fire."
Will be very interesting.
Following is a great segment:
http://video.foxnews.com/v/5350738805001/?#sp=show-clips
***********************
Been around since 1947
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRZO4SiXWZQ
ahhh the CIA another great thing brought to you buy the democrats :) thanks FDR for creating the OSS and truman for the saying CIA was your idea !
which says all about dems its always about THEM controlling power and people not the freedom of the people !!!!
I took a course from a spook in the late 70 early 80s time frame :)
was a modern at the time survival kind of course and not about guns and storing ammo kind either
more how to blend in and/or get away with things etc..
but they truly as we know have their fingers in everything
and misinformation is a HUGE part of their thing :)
Outlander Systems
03-08-17, 08:12
https://youtu.be/7YvAYIJSSZY
Whiskey_Bravo
03-08-17, 08:25
My suspicion is that the simplest explanations are correct:
1) Nobody from the Trump Administration, including Trump himself, is working for the Russians. All of the so called contact is what one would expect from an international business conglomerate.
2) Nobody bugged Trump Tower. Flynn was recorded because the Russian Ambassador was being surveilled which is fairly routine.
All of this excitement is a whole lotta nothing and both sides are more than happy to use it to feed their bases.
While I maybe agree, at the very least the leaking of #2 is still a fairly big deal.
This is an interesting interview. How did the Clinton campaign know? Why was the IC communicating with one candidate?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owYaAm_4Ckc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjiUrQf7_ck
"I thought he was KGB from Russia!"
"Are you kidding me? He was a CPA from.Encino!"
While I maybe agree, at the very least the leaking of #2 is still a fairly big deal.
This is an interesting interview. How did the Clinton campaign know? Why was the IC communicating with one candidate?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owYaAm_4Ckc
I agree. But I think that a lot of people are assuming that Flynn's conversation was leaked by "the intelligence community" while conveniently forgetting that Trump's own WH staff might have been the culprit. There are undisputed reports that President Trump was told by acting AG Yates (at the urging of Clapper and Brennan) back in January that Flynn was not being honest with his description of the conversations with the Russian Ambassador. That was BEFORE the public became aware of this mess and means that the WH senior staff was another population with the knowledge of Flynn's conversation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/justice-department-warned-white-house-that-flynn-could-be-vulnerable-to-russian-blackmail-officials-say/2017/02/13/fc5dab88-f228-11e6-8d72-263470bf0401_story.html?utm_term=.9f373db46bac
There are also reports that Flynn had enemies within the Trump Administration. Thus, it is very possible (perhaps likely?) that Flynn was outed by someone within the WH either intentionally or inadvertently, and nobody at the CIA, NSA, or DOJ is to blame. That would mean that Trump is not a Manchurian candidate, his crib is not bugged, our intelligence agencies are actually doing their jobs, and all this noise is just food for conspiracy theorists.
Averageman
03-08-17, 10:12
My suspicion is that the simplest explanations are correct:
1) Nobody from the Trump Administration, including Trump himself, is working for the Russians. All of the so called contact is what one would expect from an international business conglomerate.
2) Nobody bugged Trump Tower. Flynn was recorded because the Russian Ambassador was being surveilled which is fairly routine.
All of this excitement is a whole lotta nothing and both sides are more than happy to use it to feed their bases.
My understanding of this though is that yes they can listen in, but when a known U.S. Citizen comes on the line the recording has to stop. If Flynn was recorded, the recording was not legal and certainly leaking the contents, or that there ever was a conversation was not legal either.
If I am correct (I do not have a perfect knowledge of the legality) then this was over the line. If the aforementioned Secret Service agent is correct in his assumption and the conversations Flynn had were inside Trump Towers, even if the bug wasn't physically located there, by proxy they were being bugged in Trump Towers.
That Hillary had mentioned Trump was being bugged and that these conversations have been leaked leads me to believe something certainly isn't on the up and up legally.
Would Trump go bat guano crazy? Certainly he would and with good reason. His Administration has been left a minefield to traverse and as they traverse it his cabinet is being delayed. Are the two issues related?
It would certainly explain what is going on.
I agree. But I think that a lot of people are assuming that Flynn's conversation was leaked by "the intelligence community" while conveniently forgetting that Trump's own WH staff might have been the culprit. There are undisputed reports that President Trump was told by acting AG Yates (at the urging of Clapper and Brennan) back in January that Flynn was not being honest with his description of the conversations with the Russian Ambassador. That was BEFORE the public became aware of this mess and means that the WH senior staff was another population with the knowledge of Flynn's conversation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/justice-department-warned-white-house-that-flynn-could-be-vulnerable-to-russian-blackmail-officials-say/2017/02/13/fc5dab88-f228-11e6-8d72-263470bf0401_story.html?utm_term=.9f373db46bac
There are also reports that Flynn had enemies within the Trump Administration. Thus, it is very possible (perhaps likely?) that Flynn was outed by someone within the WH either intentionally or inadvertently, and nobody at the CIA, NSA, or DOJ is to blame. That would mean that Trump is not a Manchuria candidate, his crib is not bugged, our intelligence agencies are actually doing their jobs, and all this noise is just food for conspiracy theorists.
It would explain everything except the leaks wouldn't it?
No doubt Flynn had enemies in the IC, but would someone inside the (then, very small) Cabinet be willing to take such actions against Flynn and by proxy Trump?
In Soviet America, TV Watches YOU!!!
You mean the teliscreen, double speak and the Ministry of Information! It's 1984!
My understanding of this though is that yes they can listen in, but when a known U.S. Citizen comes on the line the recording has to stop. If Flynn was recorded, the recording was not legal and certainly leaking the contents, or that there ever was a conversation was not legal either.
If I am correct (I do not have a perfect knowledge of the legality) then this was over the line. If the aforementioned Secret Service agent is correct in his assumption and the conversations Flynn had were inside Trump Towers, even if the bug wasn't physically located there, by proxy they were being bugged in Trump Towers.
That Hillary had mentioned Trump was being bugged and that these conversations have been leaked leads me to believe something certainly isn't on the up and up legally.
Would Trump go bat guano crazy? Certainly he would and with good reason. His Administration has been left a minefield to traverse and as they traverse it his cabinet is being delayed. Are the two issues related?
It would certainly explain what is going on.
It would explain everything except the leaks wouldn't it?
No doubt Flynn had enemies in the IC, but would someone inside the (then, very small) Cabinet be willing to take such actions against Flynn and by proxy Trump?
Exactly. If an Obama holdover attorney came into your office and said "An anonymous/undisclosed source told us that LtG Flynn is lying to you about his conversations with the Russian Ambassador", what would you say?
OTOH, if the attorney came in and said "We have evidence that LtG Flynn is lying to you about conversing with the Russian Ambassador", might your reaction be a bit different?
Averageman
03-08-17, 10:44
Exactly. If an Obama holdover attorney came into your office and said "An anonymous/undisclosed source told us that LtG Flynn is lying to you about his conversations with the Russian Ambassador", what would you say?
OTOH, if the attorney came in and said "We have evidence that LtG Flynn is lying to you about conversing with the Russian Ambassador", might your reaction be a bit different?
Those are some logical choices, and of course I would take #2 in that scenario, but when the story skips your office and you read about it in the morning paper, then someone needs to go to jail.
Doc Safari
03-08-17, 10:53
My understanding of this though is that yes they can listen in, but when a known U.S. Citizen comes on the line the recording has to stop. If Flynn was recorded, the recording was not legal and certainly leaking the contents, or that there ever was a conversation was not legal either.
If I am correct (I do not have a perfect knowledge of the legality) then this was over the line. If the aforementioned Secret Service agent is correct in his assumption and the conversations Flynn had were inside Trump Towers, even if the bug wasn't physically located there, by proxy they were being bugged in Trump Towers.?
You really think they worry about what's legal?
I'm thinking now that they used the "car assassination" technique to try to get at Putin and his limo driver bought it instead.
Literally, NOTHING is taboo to this bunch.
We are all in grave danger, especially Trump.
You know that if their power is threatened they will use ANY means to hold onto it.
I know I may be starting to sound like Alex Jones, but if the intelligence community really thought it was in danger of losing its power do you think it wouldn't create a false flag? I can see something like a backpack nuke destroying a city just so they could say, "See, you NEED us. Better let us run things."
Spurholder
03-08-17, 11:04
Man, Linda Fiorentino was so hot in those days!
My understanding of this though is that yes they can listen in, but when a known U.S. Citizen comes on the line the recording has to stop...It would explain everything except the leaks wouldn't it?
No doubt Flynn had enemies in the IC, but would someone inside the (then, very small) Cabinet be willing to take such actions against Flynn and by proxy Trump?
I believe you are incorrect about the recordings. Under FISA, information lacking foreign intelligence value must be minimized or masked in the transcript. That includes the names of U.S. citizens who are picked up speaking to the target unless their identities are relevant to understanding the foreign intelligence. There is no requirement that recordings stop.
If an agent is trying to figure out a foreign target’s network, conversations that might appear innocuous at first are still more likely to be considered relevant. Thus the minimization rules for national-security wiretaps are more lenient than those for criminal wiretaps because spies typically use more sophisticated to evade surveillance. I suspect that the recordings of Flynn were legit and by the book. I also suspect that Flynn said nothing inappropriate. The foul came when he "misremembered" to Trump and Pence which made the VP look bad.
We already know that Trump's WH is prone to leaks and could only come from a narrow group of senior advisors. The call with the Auzie PM Turnbull is a prime example. Thus, I not ready to dismiss the WH staff as the source of the Flynn leak.
Outlander Systems
03-08-17, 13:39
To which bunch?
The Secret Police or the Secret Court?
Literally, NOTHING is taboo to this bunch.
Doc Safari
03-08-17, 13:40
To which bunch?
The Secret Police or the Secret Court?
YES. Uh-huh. Them.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-08-17, 13:45
I believe you are incorrect about the recordings. Under FISA, information lacking foreign intelligence value must be minimized or masked in the transcript. That includes the names of U.S. citizens who are picked up speaking to the target unless their identities are relevant to understanding the foreign intelligence. There is no requirement that recordings stop.
If an agent is trying to figure out a foreign target’s network, conversations that might appear innocuous at first are still more likely to be considered relevant. Thus the minimization rules for national-security wiretaps are more lenient than those for criminal wiretaps because spies typically use more sophisticated to evade surveillance. I suspect that the recordings of Flynn were legit and by the book. I also suspect that Flynn said nothing inappropriate. The foul came when he "misremembered" to Trump and Pence which made the VP look bad.
We already know that Trump's WH is prone to leaks and could only come from a narrow group of senior advisors. The call with the Auzie PM Turnbull is a prime example. Thus, I not ready to dismiss the WH staff as the source of the Flynn leak.
What would a Trump loyalist insider gain with the Auzie release? That smelled more like an underling staffer that had access than anything. cui bono
Singlestack Wonder
03-08-17, 13:50
What would a Trump loyalist insider gain with the Auzie release? That smelled more like an underling staffer that had access than anything. cui bono
With the wiki release of CIA data outlining the ease-dropping of everyone practices, safe to say that Trump Tower was "wire tapped" in a way. I'm sure none of the conversations in Trump Tower made it back to obama or hilliary... :rolleyes:
platoonDaddy
03-08-17, 14:21
The contractor told Fox News that CCI has long maintained an internal database of information -- accessible to anyone with proper credentials or security clearance -- that seemed to be dumped in total to WikiLeaks. In its news release on the disclosure, WikiLeaks said CCI had more than 5,000 registered users, a number alternatively referred to as “absurd” and “a bit high” by security experts who spoke to Fox News. The CIA declined comment to Fox News.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/08/wikileaks-reveal-cia-hacking-trove-has-feds-on-mole-hunt.html
Averageman
03-08-17, 14:40
Is Comey still waiting for a denial?
Kind of funny how that's working for him...
What would a Trump loyalist insider gain with the Auzie release? That smelled more like an underling staffer that had access than anything. cui bono
How? There were no underlings or staffers in the room during the conversation:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4183186/amp/President-Donald-Trump-phone-Australian-Malcolm-Turnbull.html
There are all kinds of reasons why senior staffers leak stuff. Some think it was Bannon; others may disagree.
However, my larger point is that nobody has evidence of shit. Nobody has evidence that Trump colluded with Russia. Nobody has evidence that Russia "hacked" the election. Nobody has evidence that it was our intelligence apparatus which leaked Flynn's conversation. And finally, nobody has evidence that our intelligence apparatus is spying on Trump.
So, when there is no evidence despite everyone looking, that means it probably didn't happen - none of it. That would mean that we have 17 pages of wasted bandwidth. As Trump would say, Sad! ;)
Is Comey still waiting for a denial?
Kind of funny how that's working for him...
Perhaps he's searching the dresses in his closet for a denial? :ph34r:
Perhaps he's searching the dresses in his closet for a denial? :ph34r:
He's taller than Eddie was and those dresses would be out of fashion.
Outlander Systems
03-08-17, 17:05
"The telescreen received and transmitted simultaneously. Any sound that Winston made, above the level of a very low whisper, would be picked up by it, moreover, so long as he remained within the field of vision which the metal plaque commanded, he could be seen as well as heard. There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live -- did live, from habit that became instinct -- in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized."
YES. Uh-huh. Them.
Doc Safari
03-08-17, 17:11
"The telescreen received and transmitted simultaneously. Any sound that Winston made, above the level of a very low whisper, would be picked up by it, moreover, so long as he remained within the field of vision which the metal plaque commanded, he could be seen as well as heard. There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live -- did live, from habit that became instinct -- in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized."
And don't forget the most important mantra that we all may as well start chanting: "We are the dead."
Orwell was a prophet.
Outlander Systems
03-08-17, 17:33
The answer to mass surveillance is mass sousveillance.
Doc Safari
03-08-17, 17:35
The answer to mass surveillance is mass sousveillance.
Nope. Low-Tech No-Tech.
Remember the people who, some 200-something years ago, met in taverns? Mmmmmm-Hmmmmm. Dark and noisy.
And that's the only clue you're going to get.
:jester:
(Cue "Mission Impossible" theme)
platoonDaddy
03-08-17, 18:28
If true, this is friggin NUTS
Federal lawmakers are investigating the possibility that senior Department of Justice officials interfered in a terrorism probe involving a refugee just prior to the November election in an effort to deny campaign momentum to Donald Trump, Fox News has learned.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/08/lawmakers-probe-claim-doj-aided-iraqi-terror-suspect-days-before-november-election.html
Outlander Systems
03-08-17, 18:35
@platoonDaddy:
That's chump change. They dropped a "Cheese Pizza" case because they didn't want to expose the cool toys they had access to:
https://www.wired.com/2017/03/feds-rather-drop-child-porn-case-give-exploit/
Post-Script Newsflash: Anyone using Tor for Cloak and Dagger Secret Squirrel Shit is a ****ing idiot.
So, rather than admit the above, because it's true, they'd prefer to let pederasts walk free.
Sad.
platoonDaddy
03-08-17, 19:40
@platoonDaddy:
That's chump change. They dropped a "Cheese Pizza" case because they didn't want to expose the cool toys they had access to:
https://www.wired.com/2017/03/feds-rather-drop-child-porn-case-give-exploit/
Post-Script Newsflash: Anyone using Tor for Cloak and Dagger Secret Squirrel Shit is a ****ing idiot.
So, rather than admit the above, because it's true, they'd prefer to let pederasts walk free.
Sad.
Holy fvck! As DocGlockster previously stated: we are sitting on a sled at the top of a cliff.
Outlander Systems
03-08-17, 20:21
Existential shit. Are we Constitutional Republic or not?
If not, we need to cut the bullshit, and admit that the fundamental precepts of this nation, as outlined in what is allegedly the Supreme Law of the Land, no longer apply.
Doc Safari
03-08-17, 20:30
A person I shall not name once told me, "If you think they won't kill a plane full of people to get one person, then you don't understand the people who are running things."
Existential shit. Are we Constitutional Republic or not?
If not, we need to cut the bullshit, and admit that the fundamental precepts of this nation, as outlined in what is allegedly the Supreme Law of the Land, no longer apply.
You don't put "the" in front of God do you? Why would you when discussing the agencies in question?
[emoji52]
Dist. Expert 26
03-09-17, 09:10
A person I shall not name once told me, "If you think they won't kill a plane full of people to get one person, then you don't understand the people who are running things."
Most people don't want to admit to that reality.
The current season of Homeland is touching on a lot of these subjects pretty well. The CIA is orchestrating "terrorist" attacks, killing FBI agents and even having children taken from their parents. Hopefully some viewers are intelligent enough to realize that it's not just good TV.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-09-17, 10:08
Most people don't want to admit to that reality.
The current season of Homeland is touching on a lot of these subjects pretty well. The CIA is orchestrating "terrorist" attacks, killing FBI agents and even having children taken from their parents. Hopefully some viewers are intelligent enough to realize that it's not just good TV.
Unfortunately, Homeland hasn't been good TV. ;) The funny thing is that all these episodes where in the can before Trump won, but they seem almost directed at him. Sure a female Pres candidate, but one that far more fits the profile of Trump.
platoonDaddy
03-09-17, 13:17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-a2o7VCy2M
Averageman
03-09-17, 13:47
Anyone willing to guess how much further down this slippery slope we would have went in four years of a Hillary Clinton Administration?
I'm guessing once they fulfilled the task of clearing the names on that hit list, they could have gotten a bigger budget and the ability to bury folks in the rose garden.
Outlander Systems
03-09-17, 14:12
Considering that an internal report on Snowden stated that what he revealed was, and I quote, "...merely the tip of the iceberg;" brosef, we're already in rough shape.
The CIA was busted spying on members of the Senate Intelligence Committee in 2014...
...if that doesn't make the hair on your neck stand up, you need to brush the Cheeto cheese out of your neckbeard, and put some pants on.
Beyond that, a previous leaker from TAO in 2015, was arrested, and thusly disappeared...
But, yeah. Healthy Republic and all that...
Anyone willing to guess how much further down this slippery slope we would have went in four years of a Hillary Clinton Administration?
I'm guessing once they fulfilled the task of clearing the names on that hit list, they could have gotten a bigger budget and the ability to bury folks in the rose garden.
I'm gonna throw out an alternate hypothesis, because there are so many unknowns that anything is still possible at this point?
What if Trump is wrong and this doesn't have anything to do with Obama or his people? What if instead, this is all Comey? What if there was an investigation which didn't reveal any Team Trump collusion with Russians, but Comey wants to be the guy who took down a sitting POTUS so he's still actively searching for the smoking gun that will point back to Team Trump? If that isn't the case, then why did he refuse Reince Priebus' request that the FBI publicly refute the months' of stories suggesting collusion between the Kremlin's agents and Trump campaign operatives? Why would Clapper break ranks and say he didn't see anything to suggest that Russia successfully infiltrated Donald Trump’s presidential campaign or recruited any of Trump’s advisers, at least as of Jan. 20 when he retired? And why would the DoJ refuse to back Comey when he demanded that they issue a statement saying the FBI didn't illegally surveil the Trump campaign or do so for political reasons?
What if this whole sordid affair is all a Red Scare hunt and Comey is the hunter, who thinks he'll find his prey in Trump Tower? :confused:
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-09-17, 17:05
I think Comey on the whole is a straight shooter, by DC standards. He is an odd duck. Someone needs to run down the Clapper-Comey incongruity. If I were Trump I'd run with the Clapper comment get it on the record in a Cong hearing, declare victory and move on.
The Dems are totally out of power and this is their only play. Make it out to be the desperate gambit for attention it is.
I'm gonna throw out an alternate hypothesis, because there are so many unknowns that anything is still possible at this point?
What if Trump is wrong and this doesn't have anything to do with Obama or his people? What if instead, this is all Comey? What if there was an investigation which didn't reveal any Team Trump collusion with Russians, but Comey wants to be the guy who took down a sitting POTUS so he's still actively searching for the smoking gun that will point back to Team Trump? If that isn't the case, then why did he refuse Reince Priebus' request that the FBI publicly refute the months' of stories suggesting collusion between the Kremlin's agents and Trump campaign operatives? Why would Clapper break ranks and say he didn't see anything to suggest that Russia successfully infiltrated Donald Trump’s presidential campaign or recruited any of Trump’s advisers, at least as of Jan. 20 when he retired? And why would the DoJ refuse to back Comey when he demanded that they issue a statement saying the FBI didn't illegally surveil the Trump campaign or do so for political reasons?
What if this whole sordid affair is all a Red Scare hunt and Comey is the hunter, who thinks he'll find his prey in Trump Tower? :confused:
Simple solution - fire Comey. I'm actually a little surprised it hasn't already been done.
I don't think Trump can fire Comey? Not 100% sure on that, but Comey just doubled down on that yesterday by announcing he will not be going anywhere for 6 1/2 more years.
For all the talk of his being a "straight shooter", I looked up people's thoughts on him going back to the Ashcroft incident and I think more than anything, he likes being the guy who calls the shots.
I don't think Trump can fire Comey? Not 100% sure on that, but Comey just doubled down on that yesterday by announcing he will not be going anywhere for 6 1/2 more years.
For all the talk of his being a "straight shooter", I looked up people's thoughts on him going back to the Ashcroft incident and I think more than anything, he likes being the guy who calls the shots.
Power is corrupting after all.
I don't think Trump can fire Comey? Not 100% sure on that, but Comey just doubled down on that yesterday by announcing he will not be going anywhere for 6 1/2 more years.
For all the talk of his being a "straight shooter", I looked up people's thoughts on him going back to the Ashcroft incident and I think more than anything, he likes being the guy who calls the shots.
Sure he can. The FBI Director is no different than any other agency head - he serves at the pleasure of the POTUS. For example, Clinton canned William Sessions.
Ostrow, Ronald J.; Jackson, Robert L. (1993-07-20). "Defiant FBI Chief Is Fired by President : Law enforcement: Alleged ethical abuses by Sessions are cited as reason for dismissal. He refused to resign". Los Angeles Times.
This is why all this conspiracy shadow government crap against Trump is so funny. People discussing it don't even acknowledge that he could summarily fire anyone in the CIA, NSA, FBI, etc. if he wanted, and there is nothing that they could do to stop him. So, either it doesn't exist or Trump is too spineless to hold the agency heads accountable. My vote is that it doesn't exist.
Averageman
03-09-17, 20:46
Sure he can. The FBI Director is no different than any other agency head - he serves at the pleasure of the POTUS. For example, Clinton canned William Sessions.
Ostrow, Ronald J.; Jackson, Robert L. (1993-07-20). "Defiant FBI Chief Is Fired by President : Law enforcement: Alleged ethical abuses by Sessions are cited as reason for dismissal. He refused to resign". Los Angeles Times.
This is why all this conspiracy shadow government crap against Trump is so funny. People discussing it don't even acknowledge that he could summarily fire anyone in the CIA, NSA, FBI, etc. if he wanted, and there is nothing that they could do to stop him. So, either it doesn't exist or Trump is too spineless to hold the agency heads accountable. My vote is that it doesn't exist.
It's past time to cut Comey loose and then begin cleaning house starting with politically motivated career folks in all departments to include the DOJ.
Trump may have come in to this thing thinking he could fix it, but he had no idea how many deeply entrenched folks in these agencies would be working directly against him.
What's good for America has taken a back seat to what is good for the Globalist Progressive Movement.
It's past time to cut Comey loose and then begin cleaning house starting with politically motivated career folks in all departments to include the DOJ.
Trump may have come in to this thing thinking he could fix it, but he had no idea how many deeply entrenched folks in these agencies would be working directly against him.
What's good for America has taken a back seat to what is good for the Globalist Progressive Movement.
Trump has plenty of reasons to justify firing Comey, and Comey has plenty of reasons to resign in protest. They are basically like a bad marriage where neither party is willing to cut the cord. Up until last week, I would have said that Trump's case against Comey was much stronger. However, leave it to the guy who can't keep his fingers off of a keyboard to Tweet some bullshit implying that the FBI facilitated multiple felonies without any evidence. Yes, I know that he didn't name the FBI in his Tweet, but the implication was clear since they are the organization that performs domestic counterintelligence and that is why Comey's panties are in a wad.
Trump has plenty of reasons to justify firing Comey, and Comey has plenty of reasons to resign in protest. They are basically like a bad marriage where neither party is willing to cut the cord. Up until last week, I would have said that Trump's case against Comey was much stronger. However, leave it to the guy who can't keep his fingers off of a keyboard to Tweet some bullshit implying that the FBI facilitated multiple felonies without any evidence. Yes, I know that he didn't name the FBI in his Tweet, but the implication was clear since they are the organization that performs domestic counterintelligence and that is why Comey's panties are in a wad.
I think if Comey has his panties in a wad, he needs to look in a mirror for the reason. Just stoop down a bit Jimmie, there it is! ;)
And now it looks like Comey met with the "Gang of Eight" on the hill today.
Getting juicy! :cool:
Assuming media reports are correct, Comey's handling of the Clinton investigation was incompetent. His timing of witness interviews, handling of evidence, and allowing a potential subject of the investigation (Cheryl Mills) to invoke attorney-client privilege and serve as counsel during the Clinton interview is mind boggling. Then, there is the issue of him assuming the role of a US Attorney when Lynch recused herself was completely improper, as were his media announcements in the final weeks of the campaign.
I sometimes wonder if the plan was to keep him on board for a few months and then tell him that it was time to spend more time with his family. Now, it's politically harder to do that given the circumstances of Trump's Tweets, lack of financial transparency, etc. The Dems will try to accuse Trump of stifling an investigation into his Russia dealings (which I personally think are bogus allegations).
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-10-17, 01:50
Sure he can. The FBI Director is no different than any other agency head - he serves at the pleasure of the POTUS. For example, Clinton canned William Sessions.
Ostrow, Ronald J.; Jackson, Robert L. (1993-07-20). "Defiant FBI Chief Is Fired by President : Law enforcement: Alleged ethical abuses by Sessions are cited as reason for dismissal. He refused to resign". Los Angeles Times.
This is why all this conspiracy shadow government crap against Trump is so funny. People discussing it don't even acknowledge that he could summarily fire anyone in the CIA, NSA, FBI, etc. if he wanted, and there is nothing that they could do to stop him. So, either it doesn't exist or Trump is too spineless to hold the agency heads accountable. My vote is that it doesn't exist.
More likely he doesn't know who to fire. There obviously are people at CIA that are leaking thing, less obvious is who.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/09/politics/fbi-investigation-continues-into-odd-computer-link-between-russian-bank-and-trump-organization/index.html
And this is what passes for evidence of some grand collusion. That there is nothing there is the reason we need a full investigation.
More likely he doesn't know who to fire.
Yeah, Obama seemed to have that same problem. I'd have thought that problem, which seems to permeate Washington, would be fixed by now.
Averageman
03-10-17, 08:11
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/09/politics/fbi-investigation-continues-into-odd-computer-link-between-russian-bank-and-trump-organization/index.html
Last year, a small group of computer scientists obtained internet traffic records from the complex system that serves as the internet's phone book. Access to these records is reserved for highly trusted cybersecurity firms and companies that provide this lookup service.
These signals were captured as they traveled along the internet's Domain Name System (DNS).
These leaked records show that Alfa Bank servers repeatedly looked up the unique internet address of a particular Trump Organization computer server in the United States.
This server behavior alarmed one computer expert who had privileged access to this technical information last year. That person, who remains anonymous and goes by the moniker "Tea Leaves," obtained this information from internet traffic meant to remain private. It is unclear where Tea Leaves worked or how Tea Leaves obtained access to the information
Aren't these things that are bolded an admission of guilt?
I can just go in and screw around with a banks computer records and also in to the records concerning a Politician who is running for POTUS?
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-10-17, 08:57
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/09/politics/fbi-investigation-continues-into-odd-computer-link-between-russian-bank-and-trump-organization/index.html
Last year, a small group of computer scientists obtained internet traffic records from the complex system that serves as the internet's phone book. Access to these records is reserved for highly trusted cybersecurity firms and companies that provide this lookup service.
These signals were captured as they traveled along the internet's Domain Name System (DNS).
These leaked records show that Alfa Bank servers repeatedly looked up the unique internet address of a particular Trump Organization computer server in the United States.
This server behavior alarmed one computer expert who had privileged access to this technical information last year. That person, who remains anonymous and goes by the moniker "Tea Leaves," obtained this information from internet traffic meant to remain private. It is unclear where Tea Leaves worked or how Tea Leaves obtained access to the information
Aren't these things that are bolded an admission of guilt?
I can just go in and screw around with a banks computer records and also in to the records concerning a Politician who is running for POTUS?
I linked to that article too, but what I found interesting is:
-This isn't interesting.
-No one says that it means anything.
-It is an anomaly.
-You'd not use this method to send information secretly
Because it means nothing, that is why it has to be investigated more.
What we have to do is have a political cost for these snipe hunts. If the DEMs/MSM have no cost to every one of these attacks, there is no reason for them not to demand an Independent counsel on everything. The fact that there is nothing here means that we have to look deeper.
With the dems totally out of power, this is their only lever to play with. We need to beat them in the head with that lever.
Averageman
03-10-17, 10:24
I linked to that article too, but what I found interesting is:
-This isn't interesting.
-No one says that it means anything.
-It is an anomaly.
-You'd not use this method to send information secretly
Because it means nothing, that is why it has to be investigated more.
What we have to do is have a political cost for these snipe hunts. If the DEMs/MSM have no cost to every one of these attacks, there is no reason for them not to demand an Independent counsel on everything. The fact that there is nothing here means that we have to look deeper.
With the dems totally out of power, this is their only lever to play with. We need to beat them in the head with that lever.
At what point in playing these games does it become a National Security issue?
At what point in playing these games does it become a National Security issue?
Probably around the time that POTUS starts accusing the national security apparatus of spying on him...without providing any evidence.
Reading an article today where, of all people, Dennis Kucinich says it's possible that Obama did what was alleged as it happened to him.
Doc Safari
03-10-17, 11:18
Reading an article today where, of all people, Dennis Kucinich says it's possible that Obama did what was alleged as it happened to him.
It's been my experience that people always accuse others of what they in fact are guilty of.
What? Are you claiming Kucinich bugged Obama or that candidate Trump bugged Clinton?
Kucinich says he was bugged and a conversation between him and a Qaddafi son was leaked and the WaTimes got the leaked tape and played it to him. He believes it was ordered by Obama for political reasons.
Could it have been the Qaddafi son, the known enemy of the United States, who was the one that was bugged?
According to Kucinich, highly unlikely as Qaddafi son was using a "burner" cellphone.
Averageman
03-10-17, 12:46
I'm rather confused because I'm almost sure I remember President Obama telling us when he ran for office the first time that we needed to stop spying on Americans. I think "O" might have said something about not using drones to drop bombs on people when we might cause some collateral civilian casualties also.
I would be happy to find out that this whole mess is a total mistake and everyone was just a little confused about what happened.....
However I'm pretty sure once you get your hands on the controls, all that nice shit you said to get elected and them re elected doesn't mean a hill of beans when it comes down to it. Well at least that is what history seems to be showing us.
Kucinich says he was bugged and a conversation between him and a Qaddafi son was leaked and the WaTimes got the leaked tape and played it to him. He believes it was ordered by Obama for political reasons.
First, Kucinich is an idiot. What he believes is not necessarily what happened. Yes, his phone call to an alleged terroist and mass murderer was recorded. In fact, it was probably recorded by most of the world's modern intelligence agencies since it occurred over an unsecured Congressional line (again, allegedly). It was also probably recorded by Saif el-Islam Qaddafi himself and Kucinich's staff. There has never been any evidence that Obama ordered the recording or its leaking.
According to Kucinich, highly unlikely as Qaddafi son was using a "burner" cellphone.
Ummm, no.
Averageman
03-10-17, 12:58
First, Kucinich is an idiot. What he believes is not necessarily what happened. Yes, his phone call to an alleged terroist and mass murder was recorded. In fact, it was probably recorded by most of the world's modern intelligence agencies since it occurred over an unsecured Congressional line (again, allegedly). It was also probably recorded by Saif el-Islam Qaddafi himself and Kucinich's staff. There has never been any evidence that Obama ordered the recording or its leaking.
I believe one of Qaddafi's Sons at one point was trying to broker a surrender of himself and his father and was also trying to warn us about just who we were backing in that civil war.
I wouldn't be surprised if these two things weren't related.
I would like to think if Rudolph Hess decided to try and broker a surrender deal with someone in our Senate, the OSS wouldn't have been bugging the call and FDR wouldn't have worked against that surrender happening.
I think "O" had a vested interest in the Arab Spring and anyone getting in his way was going to get steamrolled.
To be clear, I was not espousing anything crazy Dennis says. I was merely pointing out a story. Anyone can read the article for themselves and draw their own conclusion.
Sensei, I have to believe, without jumping to the Bildebergers or secret societies as an excuse, that the IC in this country has WAY too much power (by what they can see/hear) and WAY too much autonomy. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I have no doubt that the IC as a whole has become the New-Gen J. Edgar Hoover, i.e. they have something on everyone (or could rather quickly) and any attempt to reign them in would be met with "leaks" and such to discredit/destroy the accuser. They have morphed into a monster in the shadows.
Do they do yeoman's work in defense of our country? Absolutely. However, that same uber-capability they possess to focus on our enemies and potential enemies has enabled them to become entities unto themselves, answerable to no one but themselves. Any "investigation" is immediately rebuffed as poking into "classified" territory and as such is therefore verboten. They operate with damn near impunity.
To be clear, I was not espousing anything crazy Dennis says. I was merely pointing out a story. Anyone can read the article for themselves and draw their own conclusion.
I know, and I'm not blaming you. My problem is with media outlets like FNC and CNN the put out stories lacking key context that dramatically changes the trajectory of the narrative. For example, FNC interviewed Kucinich and allowed him to spout off his crazy assed theory. However, they never included the context that Kucinich was calling a suspected war criminal wanted by international agencies using unsecured lines. FNC never even mentioned the more likely scenario that someone other than Obama's minions might be the culprit. Why did FNC do this? Because they were too excited that two socialists were at odds.
Averageman
03-10-17, 13:46
Do they do yeoman's work in defense of our country? Absolutely. However, that same uber-capability they possess to focus on our enemies and potential enemies has enabled them to become entities unto themselves, answerable to no one but themselves. Any "investigation" is immediately rebuffed as poking into "classified" territory and as such is therefore verboten. They operate with damn near impunity.
I agree with you.
What seriously concerns me is how they would react to someone taking a bit of that power back away from them? If in an attempt to get things back in line with the founding of our Constitutional and Democratic Republic how far will the Deep State go to hold the reins?
These leaks we are seeing, are they Partisan or are they push back to the "Draining the Swamp" message?
I agree with you.
What seriously concerns me is how they would react to someone taking a bit of that power back away from them? If in an attempt to get things back in line with the founding of our Constitutional and Democratic Republic how far will the Deep State go to hold the reins?
These leaks we are seeing, are they Partisan or are they push back to the "Draining the Swamp" message?
IMHO a little of both. The swamp is chocked full of partisans who are deeply entrenched. The IC is part of that swamp, but their power and secrecy has made them, at a minimum, elusive with a touch of "the walls have eyes".
Moose-Knuckle
03-11-17, 02:29
Considering that an internal report on Snowden stated that what he revealed was, and I quote, "...merely the tip of the iceberg;" brosef, we're already in rough shape.
The CIA was busted spying on members of the Senate Intelligence Committee in 2014...
...if that doesn't make the hair on your neck stand up, you need to brush the Cheeto cheese out of your neckbeard, and put some pants on.
Beyond that, a previous leaker from TAO in 2015, was arrested, and thusly disappeared...
But, yeah. Healthy Republic and all that...
Cyber car hacking is a thing.
Whistle blowers in particular die in single car accidents here lately.
Cyber car hacking is a thing.
Whistle blowers in particular die in single car accidents here lately.
There will be a rush on 1970's and 80's cars by whistleblowers! The old fashioned "dumb" cars. :)
There will be a rush on 1970's and 80's cars by whistleblowers! The old fashioned "dumb" cars. :)
So long as they dint confuse burner phone with burner car and buy Pintos they will be ok.
Singlestack Wonder
03-11-17, 12:14
So long as they dint confuse burner phone with burner car and buy Pintos they will be ok.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9GGDOUDLhc
skywalkrNCSU
03-21-17, 16:32
So Trump came out with his source for his claim of Obama wire tapping his phones. He saw someone talking about it on Fox News.
Someone change the password to his Twitter account.
RetroRevolver77
03-21-17, 16:45
So Trump came out with his source for his claim of Obama wire tapping his phones. He saw someone talking about it on Fox News.
Someone change the password to his Twitter account.
I believe it was the New York Times that they had a FISA warrant was requested in June and denied then in October which was granted.
You can do a search on it yourself.
7n6
skywalkrNCSU
03-22-17, 08:14
I believe it was the New York Times that they had a FISA warrant was requested in June and denied then in October which was granted.
You can do a search on it yourself.
7n6
There is no evidence that Trump was wiretapped by Obama. Trump got this idea from Fox News and then tweeted it. That is not a joke. Let me repeat, Trump got the idea that Obama wiretapped him from watching Fox News and tweeted it. That is absurd.
So all the media is so on-board reporting that Trump was wrong about Obama wiretapping him, people are failing to appreciate that he was in fact being wiretapped.
I think if he wanted to get ahead of it Trump could just as well say "Mea culpa, I was wrong about Obama wiretapping me, but it was his administration that did it instead."
Outlander Systems
03-22-17, 08:31
We are all wiretapped.
This isn't breaking ****ing news.
I happened to talk to my business partner and former Fed Attorney that dealt in these matters yesterday.
He said the following supports surveilance of Trumps organization prior to the election.
1. FISA warrant was issued for such surveillance
2. Flynn was caught having contacts with people he should have had
3. The information on Flynn was leaked
4. Info on Paul Manafort was leaked info that came from electronic surveillance
He further stated that Comey testimony was total double speak.
My attorney concludes based on his 10 years working at the top of the federal food chain, that the following was probably what has occurred.
1. Obama and/or people very high up in his administration ordered DOJ to engage in surveillance of people around Trump and maybe even Trump himself.
2. This was in fact acted on due to 2 request to FISA for warrants one denied and one granted
3. That people in the administration did in fact leak information gathered for political benefit of the Democratic party.
4. That nobody will ever be prosecuted much less go to jail.
That based on his 18 months of service during the Obama administration he had been asked to violate the Constitution and the law on more than one occasion, for what were clearly political motives. He then left government service and entered into private practice.
Full disclosure we were friends before we became business partners and when I did my due diligence on him, it was reported to me by several independent sources in his special area of practice he is viewed as being 1 of the top 3 lawyers in the whole country.
So in closing my problem with this is 3 fold.
1. The depth of corruption is beyond belief.
2. Trump doesn't really understand how hated he is and his tweet on this subject even though true is being used to make him look a fool.
3. The Dems will use this as a foundation to build on for impeachment if they take control of the house and senate any time during Trumps 4 to 8 years
Side note Republicans aint worth a cup of warm piss, when it comes to bare knuckle political fighting.
Averageman
03-22-17, 10:04
I would agree with all of the above.
If Trump "knows" he was being taped it is because he was present when a private conversation occurred in his residence and later that conversation was leaked to the Press.
I think Flynn and Trump were in a room and had someone on a phone line when conversation this took place.
The third party in this conversation was likely Russian and was unaware that Trump was listening in while Flynn and the Russian talked.
We are all wiretapped.
This isn't breaking ****ing news.
While I tend to agree with this statement, I draw the line at releasing classified information to make political points. Which IMO is the big issue here. Someone with enough oomph to unmask a US citizens name from an intercept allowed that info out to the media. That is wrong and illegal. It brings into question the whole FISA process and brings to light the nefarious nature of political beasts.
They monitor everything with the guarantee that they won't air your private info for personal or political gain. Yet someone just broke that trust. Similar to the whole IRS targeting of conservatives or Hoover building blackmail files... Where is the trust? Gone.
For just a split second take the Never Trump, Obama Sux, MAGA Hope and Change glasses off and think as a US Citizen.
People in seats of power are blatantly violating your trust and the trust of the world. How can America function in today's world when there can be no trust. Whether it's Trump negotiating a wall contract or Obama discussing how to solve global warming is irrelevant. How does anyone do businesses with us if they KNOW that anyone with a personal or political agenda can screw them over in a heartbeat? For there to be cooperation there needs to be trust. Without trust there is no cooperation. What happens when ego maniacs with large armies start to feel like people are out to get them. Historically it's not good things.
Stop focusing on the magicians hit apprentice or flapping left hand and look beyond them to the bigger picture.
We are all wiretapped.
This isn't breaking ****ing news.
Yep. The day you created an email account is the day you were digitally "born" so to speak.
Outlander Systems
03-22-17, 10:38
Gospel.
Any soft power we had is shit-on-toast.
Your reputation is something you can only afford to lose once...
People in seats of power are blatantly violating your trust and the trust of the world. How can America function in today's world when there can be no trust. Whether it's Trump negotiating a wall contract or Obama discussing how to solve global warming is irrelevant. How does anyone do businesses with us if they KNOW that anyone with a personal or political agenda can screw them over in a heartbeat?
Outlander Systems
03-22-17, 10:39
Indeed. If you want to go old-school, you could say that any time you picked up a phone (ECHELON), or used an air-gapped computer (TEMPEST) you were feeding data into "The Machine" as well.
Yep. The day you created an email account is the day you were digitally "born" so to speak.
The $64,00 Question (as self evident as it seems):
If Donald Trump was not running for office; would he have still been tapped?
And HRC was not tapped yet she was leaked.
Who had more to hide, yet who was getting more attention?
Outlander Systems
03-22-17, 11:38
See post #224 :p
The question is really, "If Donald Trump was not running for office; would his collected SIGINT/ELINT still have been escalated?"
Outlander Systems
03-22-17, 11:42
Recent, brief, Interview I heard with John McAfee brought up some interesting points regarding the attribution game being played with the DNC leaks/Podesta e-mails:
1) Russian state h4x0rs are so stupid that they left Cyrillic code behind.
2) Russian States h4x0rs are so stupid, they conducted the hacks during Moscow business hours.
I'm. Not. Buying. It. Either.
There are no accents on the internet.
I agree. It is bogus. They ain't leaving backwards Rs behind
I also have been told by a friend that works at the highest government level on cyber issues for an other country and he said it was not Russians hacking the DNC. But will not give more details as to who it really is.
Outlander Systems
03-22-17, 12:30
Bro, I lost it at "backwards Rs".
:lol:
There are no accents on the internet.
I agree. It is bogus. They ain't leaving backwards Rs behind
RetroRevolver77
03-22-17, 13:36
There is no evidence that Trump was wiretapped by Obama. Trump got this idea from Fox News and then tweeted it. That is not a joke. Let me repeat, Trump got the idea that Obama wiretapped him from watching Fox News and tweeted it. That is absurd.
Nunes: Trump transition members were under surveillance during Obama administration.
“I have seen intelligence reports that clearly show that the president-elect and his team were, I guess, at least monitored,” Nunes told reporters. “It looks to me like it was all legally collected, but it was essentially a lot of information on the president-elect and his transition team and what they were doing.”
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/devin-nunes-donald-trump-surveillance-obama-236366
7n6
Outlander Systems
03-22-17, 13:50
Allegedly, if you're one of 300,000 iPhone users, your ass is being wiretapped by Hackers:
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/hackers-we-will-remotely-wipe-iphones-unless-apple-pays-ransom
Outlander Systems
03-22-17, 15:02
Update:
https://news.grabien.com/story-nunes-i-cannot-rule-out-obama-being-involved-trump-camp-surv
REPORTER: “Do you believe the President appropriately used the word 'wiretapping?' Was it used correctly in his tweets, based on the information that you have seen?”
NUNES: “I think the wiretapping, if you use it generally like the President has said, he clearly used it differently than what I think a lot of people took it which was did Obama actually wiretap the Trump Tower, which we know didn’t happen. I think the President has been pretty clear on that.”
REPORTER: “But the physical act of the wiretapping, do you see anything —“
NUNES: “No, and I said that on day two.”
REPORTER: “Can you rule out the possibility that senior Obama Administration officials were involved in this?”
NUNES: “No, I cannot.”
Averageman
03-22-17, 15:25
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/03/22/house-intelligence-chair-nunes-surveillance-trump-transition-team-incidentally-collected/
Nunes has some revelations about some details here that are making Trumps claims look a bit more legit.
I always thought that everybody tapped everybody else just because they can. Anyway, it's more respectable than peeping in windows and such. When I get bored, I whip out my cell phone scanner and listen to my neighbor talk shit about me.
Averageman
03-22-17, 15:42
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/devin-nunes-donald-trump-surveillance-obama-236366
Members of the Donald Trump transition team, possibly including Trump himself, were under U.S. government surveillance following November’s presidential election, House Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) told reporters Wednesday.
Nunes said the monitoring appeared to be done legally as a result of what's called "incidental collection," but said he was concerned because it was not related to the FBI’s investigation into Russia’s meddling in the election and was widely disseminated across the intelligence community.
Hmmmm, This is starting to stink.
.
Dear god, they'd best hope he never figures this "politics" shit out. Lol...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Singlestack Wonder
03-22-17, 16:27
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/devin-nunes-donald-trump-surveillance-obama-236366
Members of the Donald Trump transition team, possibly including Trump himself, were under U.S. government surveillance following November’s presidential election, House Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) told reporters Wednesday.
Nunes said the monitoring appeared to be done legally as a result of what's called "incidental collection," but said he was concerned because it was not related to the FBI’s investigation into Russia’s meddling in the election and was widely disseminated across the intelligence community.
Hmmmm, This is starting to stink.
.
+10.....
Outlander Systems
03-22-17, 18:38
1) Yes, PRESIDENT ELECT TRUMP was surveilled in some capacity.
2) The Surveillance occurred between NOV 26 - JAN 17 (Interesting Dates)
3) The collection was incidental to FISA / Foreign Intelligence.
4) The intelligence gathering activities were not related to a criminal investigation.
5) The collected intelligence had, literally nothing, to do with the Russians.
https://youtu.be/VtEz57_KZGk
1) Yes, PRESIDENT ELECT TRUMP was surveilled in some capacity.
2) The Surveillance occurred between NOV 26 - JAN 17 (Interesting Dates)
3) The collection was incidental to FISA / Foreign Intelligence.
4) The intelligence gathering activities were not related to a criminal investigation.
5) The collected intelligence had, literally nothing, to do with the Russians.
"Under the color of authority". FISA court approved.
I don't give a damn if a FISA "judge" authorized it. To think these POS are beyond reproach and would never do something like authorize a FISA warrant for political purposes is being obtuse.
People say I'm paranoid or a malcontent when I say The Man be holding us down.....yet here we are
Outlander Systems
03-22-17, 19:11
Bro. Chill. It's not like they used the IRS to crush political opposition.
Easy on the tinfoil, killer.
:sarcastic:
"Under the color of authority". FISA court approved.
I don't give a damn if a FISA "judge" authorized it. To think these POS are beyond reproach and would never do something like authorize a FISA warrant for political purposes is being obtuse.
I would agree with all of the above.
If Trump "knows" he was being taped it is because he was present when a private conversation occurred in his residence and later that conversation was leaked to the Press.
I think Flynn and Trump were in a room and had someone on a phone line when conversation this took place.
The third party in this conversation was likely Russian and was unaware that Trump was listening in while Flynn and the Russian talked.
Do you have a link to this private conversation. I've only heard this theory from you and I'd like to learn more.
Legal vs not legal tends to become irrelevant when you're staring at a steaming pile of shit. :(
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