View Full Version : Rail advice
Shrillar67
03-05-17, 23:13
Looking at new rails and the Daniel Defense DDM4 looks nice but is expensive, also lookin at the Midwest Industries 12.5inch Quad rail, the BCM KMR, and the Troy industries SOCC battle rails and one of their quad rails. I guess what I'm asking is the Midwest Industries good quality? Or is it that much cheaper for a reason? Also are the Keymod and M-lok rails worth lookin at? I'm lookin for a good quality lite weight tactical rail, any advice would be appreciated.
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I like how M-lok looks & feels the best, if that's worth anything.
What are you looking to have the rail do? Or more to the point what are you wanting to mount on it, and what is the rifle's purpose going to be? Might help others offer advice.
As far as everything else, KM and M lock seem to be holding up fine for a number of people. Can't say it doesn't work and if you are trying to shed weight, well there is that. If the DD quad rail is too rich for you, and I do understand that, Larue has rails on sale, their 12 inch is like $10 more than the Midwest rail, at least direct from Midwest. It is an option, though looking at specs it will be a couple ounces heavier. The Midwest rail, at least the one I saw is a two piece, not sure if you were looking at another one OP, from what I have read, no personal experience, most seem to be happy with them, but again not a rail I am usually going out of my way for. Centurion is another option if you are wanting a quad rail, lots of people swear by them.
RobertTheTexan
03-06-17, 00:36
Kain hit the nail on the head. "What is the purpose of this AR?"
That said with LaRue has rails on sale I may buy one for GP, and you should too. I have four LaRue Tactical rails and like Kain said they aren't the lightest option by far, but those rails are tough as a tank. I will also say that of all the rails I've owned, no rail was easier to align than the LaRue. Not saying it was the easiest to install. I don't care only about that. I want my rail to be perfectly aligned. LaRue's system works. Just prior to a friend giving me a KAC URX 4 MLOK rail, I swore I'd never use those girly KeyFab or Mod-LOK or whatever they're called rails. But after installing the KAC URX 4 and shooting with it and installing my WML and a Naroh hand stop and now am an almost converted man. Don't get me wrong, I still love my LaRue rails, but those darn things, while being tough as a tank, weigh like it. Frankly I don't mind be because I know it will take whatever I dish out, and then some. I'm a big dude' do I don't mind much.
What kind of AR is this? I would say if this going to be your primary fighting weapon, aka your battle rifle, then weight is a concern, but you also want durability and a rail that will endure.
A lot of people talk negative about the LaRue because it hasn't changed much in the years Mr. Mark has been manufacturing. Nothing needs to change, IMO. It locks up tight and will not move on you.
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Shrillar67
03-06-17, 06:34
It is my primary rifle. Mainly I use it for drilling, targets, groundhogs, and coyotes. Weight is a concern but also want a rail that will take abuse and if that means I have too get a heavier one so be it. I'd like to have a forward grip, light, and laser eventually on it. The DD rail is what I really want but everywhere is out of stock of them. I also like the spikes tactical rails.
Those are very different options. I have several DD rails and I have the BCM KMR and KMR-A. The DD rails are pretty light and they're thinner than a lot of other quad rails. I've really been loving the BCM KMR rails though. They're super light and comfortable which makes for faster handling in my opinion. I've been interested in the DD MLok rails but haven't had a chance to try them out.
Shrillar67
03-06-17, 06:45
That's the nice thing about the DD from what I've read. The KMRs look pretty nice, wish I knew someone with one. I just looked at spikes website and they're rails are back ordered till August.
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Larue for a rigid, battle-proven rail. For less weight, URX4 is where it's at.
MOLON AABE
03-06-17, 08:58
Geisselle/ALG, Daniel Defense, BCM KMR-A,( Soon hopefully the MLOKR-A), Hodge/Mega, KAC, LaRue, Centurion. I stay away from Midwest due to their engineers insistence on using their current, (and previous generations), barrel nut/rail install and lockup which sucks.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
KeyMod and M-LOK work, your pick is really about preference. For what you say you want to do, I say get a Geissele MK4 or MK8 and never look back. It's got a mile-long barrel nut, it's rigid, it's durable, and you have the option of keeping everything important mounted to 1913 rails rather than M-LOK slots, which I personally will always prefer. Given your stated use, it seems like the ideal handguard.
I really like the looks of the Geissele MK rails. I wish I would've picked one up when PA had them on sale with a free barrel a few weeks ago. I just didn't think I could sell the rest of the stuff that came with it. The AR market is way saturated at the moment.
556BlackRifle
03-06-17, 10:47
There are a lot of good rail options available, here are a few:
Geissele makes a great rail. Very solid and can be had with 1913 sections machined into the front with M-Lok slots for additional accessories MK4 (https://geissele.com/13-super-modular-rail-mk4-m-lok.html) or straight up M-Lok MK8 (https://geissele.com/13-super-modular-rail-mk8-m-lok.html). The nice thing about Geissele handguards is that they come with a low pro gas block.
If you want a skinny rail and don't mind KeyMod, it's hard to go wrong with the BCM KMR (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-KMR-ALPHA-13-KeyMod-Free-Float-Handguard-p/bcm-kmr-a13-556-blk.htm).
If you like the skinny rail look but want M-Lok, Noveske (https://www.noveske.com/products/noveske-nsr-mlok-rail) or SMOS (http://www.smosarms.com/products/smos-rail-556) are also great options.
Shrillar67
03-06-17, 10:49
I'm lookin at them can't get over the quad rail look, the geissles are really light it seems, I like the Troy industry m-lok too. How do the m-lok and keymods fair too the quad rail?
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556BlackRifle
03-06-17, 11:41
I'm lookin at them can't get over the quad rail look, the geissles are really light it seems, I like the Troy industry m-lok too. How do the m-lok and keymods fair too the quad rail?
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Quad rails weigh more and can be a bit bulky to hang onto. That said, there's nothing wrong with quads and a lot of people prefer them.
ETA: Oh, and some people affectionately refer to them as cheese graters because some can have sharp edges.
Quad rails can be made pretty comfortable by ladder rail covers or the DD tire tread type covers, but I still prefer m-lok or key mod for feel/weight. You won't need any covers and you can still attach peices of picatinny rail where you need it if you don't have m-lok/keymod compatible attachment gear.
ETA: Oh, and some people affectionately refer to them as cheese graters because some can have sharp edges.
Cheaper rails that I have handled I am pretty sure I should shave with. My DD Omega rail doesn't have this issue, though there are some right angles and can poke. My Larue rail though can be grabbed with no covers and is plenty comfortable in my hand. The new DD rails that I have handled have also been very comfortable to grab without covers as well. There is something to getting what you pay for. Caveat to this is that I have kind of rough hands with pretty much perma calluses on my palms and fingers. And as Clayb states rail covers make most rails pretty comfy easily enough, with the added benefit that they give you a little more stand off from a hot barrel, less a concern with a quad rail or any rifle unless you are trying to use it as a squad support rifle, and keeping you hands off metal if you are laying the gun out in the sun where the black turns into an oven.
556BlackRifle
03-06-17, 12:29
Cheaper rails that I have handled I am pretty sure I should shave with. My DD Omega rail doesn't have this issue, though there are some right angles and can poke. My Larue rail though can be grabbed with no covers and is plenty comfortable in my hand. The new DD rails that I have handled have also been very comfortable to grab without covers as well. There is something to getting what you pay for. Caveat to this is that I have kind of rough hands with pretty much perma calluses on my palms and fingers. And as Clayb states rail covers make most rails pretty comfy easily enough, with the added benefit that they give you a little more stand off from a hot barrel, less a concern with a quad rail or any rifle unless you are trying to use it as a squad support rifle, and keeping you hands off metal if you are laying the gun out in the sun where the black turns into an oven.
Agreed. And covers look cool. ;) I actually like the looks of my KAC covers.
RobertTheTexan
03-06-17, 13:03
Cheaper rails that I have handled I am pretty sure I should shave with. My DD Omega rail doesn't have this issue, though there are some right angles and can poke. My Larue rail though can be grabbed with no covers and is plenty comfortable in my hand. The new DD rails that I have handled have also been very comfortable to grab without covers as well. There is something to getting what you pay for. Caveat to this is that I have kind of rough hands with pretty much perma calluses on my palms and fingers. And as Clayb states rail covers make most rails pretty comfy easily enough, with the added benefit that they give you a little more stand off from a hot barrel, less a concern with a quad rail or any rifle unless you are trying to use it as a squad support rifle, and keeping you hands off metal if you are laying the gun out in the sun where the black turns into an oven.
I've never grated cheese or my hand with my LaRue or Centurion C4. I do have Troy MRF that could grate a little, but LaRue index clips solved all those problems. I am trying Ergo ladder rail covers on one of my SBR's. They are much thinner, but it's missing the cable management clips. Those are so useful.
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I've never grated cheese or my hand with my LaRue or Centurion C4. I do have Troy MRF that could grate a little, but LaRue index clips solved all those problems. I am trying Ergo ladder rail covers on one of my SBR's. They are much thinner, but it's missing the cable management clips. Those are so useful.
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The ergo ladder covers are actually pretty nice. I had a set come with my DD rail and I liked them. Surefire rail covers are a little softer and can be found, at least when I grabbed them, for pretty damn cheap too though they are shorter than the Ergo ones, which may matter if you are running a longer rail. As for the Larue clips, the cable management clips are a handy little thing. I know I use mine, and also one of the BCM rubber band things for the gunfighter stock, though that is more cheap insurance than anything. Oh, the larue clips are onsale too, lol.
Defaultmp3
03-06-17, 13:53
If lasers are going to be in the mix, handguard deflection could become an issue, which could rule out some of the more popular handguards, e.g., KMR.
If lasers are going to be in the mix, handguard deflection could become an issue, which could rule out some of the more popular handguards, e.g., KMR.
True, but that can be said of any FF rail as well. It becomes a matter of what you are looking to do, and how you are doing it.
If you are a legit night time face shooter, you are doing Gods work up close and personal, and it won't be an issue. If you are on a wild varmint safari and blasting yotes at night and enjoy using your laser, you should probably zero it based on your shooting style anyway.
MOLON AABE
03-06-17, 14:47
If lasers are going to be in the mix, handguard deflection could become an issue, which could rule out some of the more popular handguards, e.g., KMR.
Or get a shorter, read stiffer, KMR-A.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
Shrillar67
03-06-17, 18:08
Well night time or dusk is when I go out lookin for coyotes, but I don't need to have a laser for that but I'd perfer one. Mainly a good not to heavy rail that can take some gettin knock around and abuse is all I want, mainly plan on having a forward grip, light, and eventually laser
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I like the Geissele rails and Centurion Arms rails.
44303
44304
True, but that can be said of any FF rail as well. It becomes a matter of what you are looking to do, and how you are doing it.
If you are a legit night time face shooter, you are doing Gods work up close and personal, and it won't be an issue. If you are on a wild varmint safari and blasting yotes at night and enjoy using your laser, you should probably zero it based on your shooting style anyway.
If you pull hard enough you can cause rail and or barrel deflection on just about anything. It just depends how hard you want to pull. For most I don't generally think it is an issue unless we get into you can deflect it by picking the rifle up or shouldering it. I have seen this with a laser mounted on an old ARMS SIRS rail. with where the laser was mounted, I could watch the thing track through the ACOG just by pulling it into my shoulder, thought it was neat for about 15 seconds before I realized that it was an issue. While I can deflect my DD and Larue rails, I really have to yank on them, or put them over my knee.
For what it's worth, I started with a Vltor 12'' monolithic upper on my 5.56, and after a few different tries with different rails, I ended up with the Midwest Industries SS rail: I liked it a lot and put one on my 308 as well. It does what I need it to do, saved a lot of weight and the price was right for me.
I think some people get hung up on the way it mounts, which, as long as you are sure to use Loctite, has not been an issue at all for me.
I've got a MI quad with the FSP on a riflle. It's been rock solid, and I would have no concerns with buying another. I can't speak to the install, as the shop I purchased it from did the install for free.
I prefer the Centurion rails. Solid lock up and they use the stock barrel nut, so there is one less part to swap out. They also come in at a decent price point.
Shrillar67
03-06-17, 21:29
I've read good things about the Centurion rails and from what I've read they are light but my concern with them was they are a two piece makes me think a solid one piece would be better for throwing around and vibration but I could be wrong, found the DDM4 for $295 in 15inch but a few of these m-loks are catching my eye
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I have the BCM KMR and I love it. It is thin, lightweight and what I have seen in testing tough. I'm not going to bash my rifle/rail against a tree or wall, but I'm confident that it will stand up to abuse, after all it's BCM and they don't put out junk.
I have an older Midwest Industries "lightweight" Picatinny rail. It is nice, but being an older version it is heavy compared to what's out now.
It's been a solid Picatinny quadrail so I can't complain.
I like how the keymod attaches better, but Mlok is good to go.
All the top manufacturers make quality rails. Daniel Defense, Geisselle/ALS, Centurion and the like. Pick what fits the budget and that you like the looks of and fits your criteria.
Myself, I love the BCM KMR. It has all the features that I want, lightweight, able to attach at 12,1,3,5,6,7,9,10 o'clock. It's slim and attachment is rock solid.
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Shrillar67
03-15-17, 17:13
I do like the way it looks, and the light weight is a hell of a plus in my book maybe I'll give it a shot
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