View Full Version : Modern 38 Super
Is there any modern 38 super defensive ammo? Sig v crown seems ok, but I'd it equivalent to hst/gd? Is anybody stuffing 357 sig bullets into 38 super cases?
Check out Wilson Combat. I believe they have a DPX load.
Couple of good ones:
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=229
https://underwoodammo.com/shop/38-super-p-124-grain-bonded-jacketed-hollow-point/
A Speer GD 124gr bullet would be perfect at standard 38 Super velocities. You could get the performance of the famous 9mm Speer GD 124+P load just by loading the same bullet to standard 38 Super ballistics. If only a major manufacturer would pick up on this.
I load my carry ammo for Super.
Accepted wisdom is that this is inadvisable.
However, a righteous shoot is a righteous shoot. I'm prepared to face any consequences if that may result from this decision.
The 125 gr. Gold Dot (SIG) bullets are designed for 1400 FPS+-. Loaded at that velocity they are low end .357's in an eleven/ten round pistol.
Another favorite is the 147 gr. GD at 1150+ FPS.
I find the recoil impulse of the 147 gr. load similar to standard pressure, .45 ACP, 230 gr. Ball. It is "easier" to shoot than the 125 gr. load- for me.
Both loads are accurate and have laser trajectories- in comparison to the .45 ACP.
Not much trick in making A/C shots to 100 yds. with these loads.
Couple of good ones:
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=229
https://underwoodammo.com/shop/38-super-p-124-grain-bonded-jacketed-hollow-point/
Thanks for the links. I thought about loading my own, but as you already mentioned the legal aspect gives me second thoughts.
A Speer GD 124gr bullet would be perfect at standard 38 Super velocities. You could get the performance of the famous 9mm Speer GD 124+P load just by loading the same bullet to standard 38 Super ballistics. If only a major manufacturer would pick up on this.
I'm an idiot, albeit a happy one. It looks like Underwood makes the exact load I was describing.
.38 Super - Making the .357 Sig irrelevant since 1929. I never understood why this round was overlooked during the whole time the whole 9mm/10mm/.40S&W fiasco happened in the late 80's through the mid 90's.
taekwondopreacher's right, a 124 grain Gold Dot and a healthy dose of AA#7 or V-VN105 would make even the most violent felon rethink the bad decisions he'd have made over the years...
.38 Super - Making the .357 Sig irrelevant since 1929. I never understood why this round was overlooked during the whole time the whole 9mm/10mm/.40S&W fiasco happened in the late 80's through the mid 90's.
taekwondopreacher's right, a 124 grain Gold Dot and a healthy dose of AA#7 or V-VN105 would make even the most violent felon rethink the bad decisions he'd have made over the years...
I just wish I could get the 357 sig bullet (something like an HST) loaded from the factory at velocities approaching 9x23mm. Is that too much to ask?
Cor-bon makes a 115gr and 125gr +P DPX, as well as Pow'RBall and Glaser rounds
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Roll your own. I use a 125 grain Hornady Action Pistol bullet (true .356 diameter) and 6.0 grains of Autocomp. I also picked up a bunch of Starline brass marked down at Bass Pro during the last panic. I shoot this out of a Colt 1911 O model and it is very flat shooting.
Thanks for the links. I thought about loading my own, but as you already mentioned the legal aspect gives me second thoughts.
What's the history behind the legal aspect of hand loads and righteous shoots?
I can't cite court cases but have been reading the gun literature for decades. It seems that writers from the less gun friendly North advise against using reloads. Having lived my entire life in the South and Southwest, I haven't encountered any officials who would care about bullet origin. I'm fortunate to have a good supply of factory defense ammo so that's what I use. Of course a person can be sued in civil court for a shooting the bad guy even if not charged by the district attorney. In my area a civil suit would be my concern about using hand loads.
I can't cite court cases but have been reading the gun literature for decades. It seems that writers from the less gun friendly North advise against using reloads. Having lived my entire life in the South and Southwest, I haven't encountered any officials who would care about bullet origin. I'm fortunate to have a good supply of factory defense ammo so that's what I use. Of course a person can be sued in civil court for a shooting the bad guy even if not charged by the district attorney. In my area a civil suit would be my concern about using hand loads.
Thank you, williejc. I assumed it was regional precedents that generated this concern, but it does seem to have potential for internet lore, ie, a case was cited and the story was exaggerated. And you are right about the civil suit issues- the FSA in my area seem to think this is why responsible people carry liabilty insurance, whether for auto, home, umbrella policies, etc. It does not help that predatory lawyers fill their heads with this belief.
I can't cite court cases but have been reading the gun literature for decades. It seems that writers from the less gun friendly North advise against using reloads. Having lived my entire life in the South and Southwest, I haven't encountered any officials who would care about bullet origin. I'm fortunate to have a good supply of factory defense ammo so that's what I use. Of course a person can be sued in civil court for a shooting the bad guy even if not charged by the district attorney. In my area a civil suit would be my concern about using hand loads.
Unfortunately, not internet lore. Ayoob has been writing about it for more than a few years. Here are some actual cases from a quick Google search
http://www.gunforums.net/forums/general-gun-talk/5514-cases-where-handloads-caused-problems-court-mas-ayoob.html
To quote from the link -
"A final word: I did not research the above and place it here to placate lightweight net ninjas. I did it because three recent Internet threads led me to believe that a number of decent people had honest questions about the real-world concerns about using handloads for self-defense, and were possibly putting themselves in jeopardy by doing so. For well over a decade, certain people have been creating an urban myth that says, “No one has ever gotten in trouble in court because they used handloads.”
This is now absolutely, and I hope finally, refuted.
Respectfully submitted,
Massad Ayoob"
(IANAL, but I have slept with several)
One of the problems when asking for case citations, is that cases become citable precedent only when they have gone through the appellate level; appeals may be based on technical issues rather than a factual issue, such as what kind of ammo was used, and how the way that information was presented may have influenced a jury, as opposed to trial, where it is a totality of the evidence. Also, there simply aren't that many self-defense cases that go to trial, as there aren't that many in the country to begin with.
My take on it, instead of finding case law that supports, or disproves the argument, please find me a criminal defense lawyer that gives the advice "Sure...go ahead and use your reloads for self-defense. They're fine".
(ETA) I know the cases Ayoob quotes above aren't precise answers to the "cite case law" argument, but my point was to show that it is a variable in court that doesn't need to muddy already turbulent waters.
Unfortunately, not internet lore. Ayoob has been writing about it for more than a few years. Here are some actual cases from a quick Google search
http://www.gunforums.net/forums/general-gun-talk/5514-cases-where-handloads-caused-problems-court-mas-ayoob.html
To quote from the link -
"A final word: I did not research the above and place it here to placate lightweight net ninjas. I did it because three recent Internet threads led me to believe that a number of decent people had honest questions about the real-world concerns about using handloads for self-defense, and were possibly putting themselves in jeopardy by doing so. For well over a decade, certain people have been creating an urban myth that says, “No one has ever gotten in trouble in court because they used handloads.”
This is now absolutely, and I hope finally, refuted.
Respectfully submitted,
Massad Ayoob"
(IANAL, but I have slept with several)
One of the problems when asking for case citations, is that cases become citable precedent only when they have gone through the appellate level; appeals may be based on technical issues rather than a factual issue, such as what kind of ammo was used, and how the way that information was presented may have influenced a jury, as opposed to trial, where it is a totality of the evidence. Also, there simply aren't that many self-defense cases that go to trial, as there aren't that many in the country to begin with.
My take on it, instead of finding case law that supports, or disproves the argument, please find me a criminal defense lawyer that gives the advice "Sure...go ahead and use your reloads for self-defense. They're fine".
(ETA) I know the cases Ayoob quotes above aren't precise answers to the "cite case law" argument, but my point was to show that it is a variable in court that doesn't need to muddy already turbulent waters.
This is where I was coming from. I'll gladly load my own for less than serious purposes, but I'd rather be safe and use factory ammo for carry. I just want modern projectiles that are designed for that velocity.
I just wish I could get the 357 sig bullet (something like an HST) loaded from the factory at velocities approaching 9x23mm. Is that too much to ask?
Well that might be a bit tricky, considering max pressure for .38 Super +p is 36,500 psi whereas the 9X23 is 55,000 psi.
That said, pushing a 124/125 JHP in a Super to 1400+ with V-V powders shouldn't be too difficult.
Well that might be a bit tricky, considering max pressure for .38 Super +p is 36,500 psi whereas the 9X23 is 55,000 psi.
That said, pushing a 124/125 JHP in a Super to 1400+ with V-V powders shouldn't be too difficult.
I think that would be acceptable. If only someone made super Super brass equal to the strength of 9x23.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.