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View Full Version : Why the HPA is a false flag - Get ready to get angry (A Stick oped piece)



Stickman
03-09-17, 17:44
Just some food for thought.

The Hearing Protection Act (HPA) has been leaped upon by every wannabe internet firearm celebrity in 2017, and there is certainly a lot of people who take this as a "rally round the flag" moment. I don't think there is much doubt that as a feel good measure, the HPA is awesome. Cans/ Suppressors/ Silencers are the forbidden fruit of the firearm world for most people, probably even more so than SBRs (Short Barreled Rifles meaning anything less than a 16" barrel). The lusty desire to harness your inner John Wick while battling the forces of darkness can't be anything other than a desire every man should have.... right?

The truth about cans is a little different than reality. Cans make a weapon considerably more nose heavy, considerably more dirty, considerably longer, and considerably less reliable. All of this while for the vast majority of calibers, not actually providing a "hearing safe" level of protection. The cold hard truth about cans is that the glamour just isn't quite there after you really start to use them. Don't get me wrong, they are fun, kill flash, reduce recoil, reduce muzzle rise, and do help with the overall noise, but none of that negates the above issues.

Let us get to the false flag part, which is the crux of the matter. The BATF is a heavily flawed agency. Any agency which is allowed to interpret the law and create their own version of things on an as needed basis is flawed. Wearing a badge for a couple decades leaves me with a very black and white view, an action is either against the law, or it is not. Your Law Enforcement Agencies (LEA) don't get to issue a legal opinion that changes an actual law. The strength and "meat" of a law is in how it is written. If a law doesn't stand on its own merit, it is rewritten, dissolved, or all too commonly additional laws are simply written in addition to it. What does not happen is for a LEA or Law Enforcement Officer (LEO) or supervisor to simply decide to change the law to fit their needs.

In criminal law we all learn the federal government has less authority compared to the power of the states to enact criminal laws. If the states have more power, yet it is not allowable at a state level to make arbitrary changes in definition and actions of criminal law, how is the BATF/ ATF allowed to make rulings which go against and make vast sweeping changes? When we look at these considerations, let us look no farther than a ruling which makes a muzzle brake a suppressor and therefore illegal (Remember Sig a couple years ago). How about the ever famous pistol brace, which has gone back and forth from legal, to illegal, even though there is no law actually covering the topic (think about Sig and some others on this one as well). How did we ever go from smoke grenades being legal as a nondestructive marking item, to unacceptable in the last few years? Have you forgotten about ammunition like M855 suddenly being illegal, then changed after an outcry from the public (we don't see that often).

Something to consider is not only the arbitrary changes in legality which we see in the ATF rulings, but the obscene acceptance of this in taking place. Please remember, this is NOT a court of law making a ruling, it is a LEA making a ruling outside of law which is then used for enforcement. Allowance of such actions has resulted in acceptance of said actions. With the sweep of a pen, what current items do you own which are no longer permissible? The hollow handle for my jack extension could be used for a suppressor, will that be legal tomorrow? Can it "readily be converted"? Will your AR15 be in an unallowable configuration because it has the "wrong" firing pin, or maybe it has an engraving marked "auto" even though it isn't real or functional?

I would humbly submit that the needed changes are not those which would make a change in suppressors. The changes which needed to be made are clearly the cleaning house of ATF with the same enthusiast powers given to the feds when they swept into LA and other cities for "oversight". Arbitrary enforcement and changes in the law via department rulings violate the second, fourth, fifth, and even tenth amendment. Using our first amendment rights to petition the Government for a redress of grievances, there should be a demand for clear and concise application of the law, not waving determinations which wave in the wind under definitions such as amplified, clarified, declared obsolete, modified, revoked, superseded, and supplemented. Who gave the final word to ATF to override or alter the law as it is written? Where is the civilian oversight?

Our demand should be for the law as dictated in the second amendment, and since no other constitutional amendment requires a punitive enforcement arm of the federal government, the restriction of ATF action until such time as it can be rendered effective and equitable.

glocktogo
03-09-17, 17:56
I for one hope Trump does for BATFE, what he did for the EPA with making Oklahoma AG Scott Pruitt their boss. :)

Stickman
03-09-17, 18:04
I for one hope Trump does for BATFE, what he did for the EPA with making Oklahoma AG Scott Pruitt their boss. :)

Agreed.

The Feds have no problem coming into cities and making them pay "civilian experts" to over see their actions and hold them accountable. Heck, I'll even volunteer to be one of the oversight members. Lack of accountability is unsat.

Punitive extended wait times and excessive paperwork to file for items is unsat. Someone needs to make changes at a high level. If a cop, dispatcher or records clerk can run hundreds of people a shift, there is no reason for the way ATF is run with timeframes.

Sidneyious
03-09-17, 18:05
Personally I feel we the people need to remove these politicians and agencies from existence.

I'm tired of compromise.

B Cart
03-09-17, 18:06
I for one hope Trump does for BATFE, what he did for the EPA with making Oklahoma AG Scott Pruitt their boss. :)

This^^!! Scott Pruitt has been cleaning house.

Well written post Stick.

Stickman
03-09-17, 18:12
Personally I feel we the people need to remove these politicians and agencies from existence.

I'm tired of compromise.

Agreed.

The right side, conservatives, republicans, or whatever you want to call us has always compromised. Each time, all that has occurred is an erosion of our rights, values, and abilities.

We aren't compromising anything, we are giving it all away a little bit at a time. The question becomes how we get it back.

Stickman
03-09-17, 18:13
This^^!! Scott Pruitt has been cleaning house.

Well written post Stick.



Thanks, but don't worry, someone will argue HPA is our best chance at making an impact. They will ignore the larger issue to feel good.

fledge
03-09-17, 18:32
I think this perspective is far more important an initiative than the HPA and national reciprocity.

tb-av
03-09-17, 18:45
The 'silence' out of Washington on the 2A has me concerned.

As a nation, since Trump took office we have lost ground. I know some States have regained some carry rights but others have lost possession rights. In Chess that would be akin to trading a Rook for a Pawn. Can't play that game very long.

Stickman
03-09-17, 19:04
I think this perspective is far more important an initiative than the HPA and national reciprocity.

The laws mean nothing if they can be changed by Law Enforcement. There are legal ways to do things, but they are backdooring the process instead. I'm all for NR before HPA, but if these things can be negated at will, what is the point?

Stickman
03-09-17, 19:06
The 'silence' out of Washington on the 2A has me concerned.

As a nation, since Trump took office we have lost ground. I know some States have regained some carry rights but others have lost possession rights. In Chess that would be akin to trading a Rook for a Pawn. Can't play that game very long.

While Trump has held a strong stance up to this point, the more liberal states have freaked out. The left coast is going to turn into one large CA at this rate.

hotrodder636
03-09-17, 19:44
While passage of the HPA would be a win, Stickman is dead-nuts on with the need to evaluate the reach of the BATFE as a whole.

tb-av
03-09-17, 19:54
The left coast is going to turn into one large CA at this rate.

It's not just the left coast. I've been trying to tell people for years the Dems are trying to capture the east coast.

Look at the 9th Circuit Court of appeals and the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals. the Dems, had it not been for Trump, would have captured PA, MD, DC, VA, NC, maybe SC, GA,and maybe FL. ... and they still have the high courts which have simply turned into arms of Liberal Law.

Stickman
03-09-17, 21:18
It's not just the left coast. I've been trying to tell people for years the Dems are trying to capture the east coast.

Look at the 9th Circuit Court of appeals and the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals. the Dems, had it not been for Trump, would have captured PA, MD, DC, VA, NC, maybe SC, GA,and maybe FL. ... and they still have the high courts which have simply turned into arms of Liberal Law.


The law has gone out the window, and feelings reign from the benches.

SeriousStudent
03-09-17, 21:21
I genuinely hope that does happen. And I am definitely not banking on the HPA, I'm still buying cans, and enjoying them.

Mr. Goodtimes
03-10-17, 00:35
I'm not banking on the HPA, in fact, I don't think it has a chance. Also, as others have said... I'm sick of compromise. It's not time for the passing of the HPA, it's time we outright repeal the NFA and the Hughes Amendment and simultaneously clean house at the ATF. In all honesty, I really don't understand why the ATF even exists. An agency that regulates Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives? I've never even heard of the ATF doing much of anything when it comes to Alcohol and Tobacco. It seems as though now days we have a very specific, special federal agency for regulating every aspect of our lives.

Dismantle the TSA, DHS, NSA and ATF and DEA for starters... they're all redundant agencies that perform jobs that could just as easily be performed by the FBI and CIA. Dismantle the agencies, fire all the deadwood and transfer the good ones to an applicable similar agency.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

VARIABLE9
03-11-17, 15:48
Great post and opinions in the replies. Thanks Stick, et al.

Captiva
03-11-17, 15:59
*** Wearing a badge for a couple decades leaves me with a very black and white view, an action is either against the law, or it is not. ***

I snipped out all of the great stuff to highlight this. I think you know this is true at the badge-wearing level, but that's where it stops. Everything higher up is shades of grey; especially in Washington DC. The Donald ran and won (praise Allah) on black and white. The grey is battling him hard.

Sidneyious
03-13-17, 10:59
I'm not banking on the HPA, in fact, I don't think it has a chance. Also, as others have said... I'm sick of compromise. It's not time for the passing of the HPA, it's time we outright repeal the NFA and the Hughes Amendment and simultaneously clean house at the ATF. In all honesty, I really don't understand why the ATF even exists. An agency that regulates Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives? I've never even heard of the ATF doing much of anything when it comes to Alcohol and Tobacco. It seems as though now days we have a very specific, special federal agency for regulating every aspect of our lives.

Dismantle the TSA, DHS, NSA and ATF and DEA for starters... they're all redundant agencies that perform jobs that could just as easily be performed by the FBI and CIA. Dismantle the agencies, fire all the deadwood and transfer the good ones to an applicable similar agency.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Except the FBI and CIA have proven themselves to not be trusted to hold a glass of water.

Stickman
03-13-17, 18:18
I snipped out all of the great stuff to highlight this. I think you know this is true at the badge-wearing level, but that's where it stops. Everything higher up is shades of grey; especially in Washington DC. The Donald ran and won (praise Allah) on black and white. The grey is battling him hard.

Grunt beat cops don't do politics, they do police work.

grnamin
03-17-17, 11:44
Agreed.

The right side, conservatives, republicans, or whatever you want to call us has always compromised. Each time, all that has occurred is an erosion of our rights, values, and abilities.

We aren't compromising anything, we are giving it all away a little bit at a time. The question becomes how we get it back.

The problem is that those who are supposed to be on our side think of "compromise" in its noun version: "an agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions." They need to understand that the other side uses the verb version:
Accept standards that are lower than is desirable.

Weaken (a reputation or principle) by accepting standards that are lower than is desirable.
"commercial pressures could compromise safety"
synonyms: undermine, weaken, damage, harm; More

Bring into disrepute or danger by indiscreet, foolish, or reckless behavior.