View Full Version : Spec me a LE SBR package
My dept is looking to buy some new patrol rifles and looking at SBR size rifles. Help me spec out a factory rifle/optic(non-magnified/red dot)/light/sling/etc.
The current suggestion is a DD V7S. Certainly a nice rifle but I'm not sure I like the lack of sights, though the DD fixed sight set would probably be added.
I have a Colt 6933 w/Aimpoint Pro. It's a hard combo to beat!
SIONICS deserves a hard look IMO. 11.5s with FSBs would be exceptional hotness.
Depending on funds maybe look at what KAC could offer. We run mod 1 SR16s with T2s at work but I have no idea on what the per unit cost is.
Eurodriver
03-10-17, 21:44
We run mod 1 SR16s with T2s at work but I have no idea on what the per unit cost is.
I doubt anyone cares! ;)
gunnerblue
03-10-17, 21:53
My two cents...
We currently issue 14.5" Colts with KAC quad-rails, VTAC slings and either an EoTech or Aimpoint Pro as the non-magnified option. Very basic setup but works well. I use a personally-owned Surefire M600U on mine. We are currently doing some experimentation with 11.5" barreled Colts. I, for one, think this would be a much better option due to increased portability while still maintaining decent velocity.
El Vaquero
03-10-17, 23:31
We use Colt Commandos in 11.5". The 6933. We are transitioning to Aimpoint PRO's for optics. For the light we threw on an inexpensive hand held type light attached to the FSB. It sucks, but some light is better than no light. The Colt's have held up admirably though. Our officers are like monkeys and break everything. Unless you are in a very rural setting, I would definitely go 11.5" on the barrel. So much easier getting that thing in and out of the cars. I won't even mention the sling cus they are old and its embarrassing, lol.
If it was me, I would go with any upper tier manufacturer (Colt, BCM, DD) in the 11.5" flavor, throw on an Aimpoint PRO, VCAS sling, and a Surefire Scout light. That is about as basic as you can get and it will be good to go. I've heard good things about Sionics, I've just never personally fingered one so I have no experience with one.
My dept is looking to buy some new patrol rifles and looking at SBR size rifles. Help me spec out a factory rifle/optic(non-magnified/red dot)/light/sling/etc.
The current suggestion is a DD V7S. Certainly a nice rifle but I'm not sure I like the lack of sights, though the DD fixed sight set would probably be added.
PM'd you. We do packaged SBR deals all the time.
Mr. Goodtimes
03-11-17, 05:24
KAC SR-15 CQB, Aimpoint T2, Surefire M300 mini scout.
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Eurodriver
03-11-17, 05:25
KAC SR-15 CQB, Aimpoint T2, Surefire M300 mini scout.
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Ok Jack.
You would be surprised.
I doubt anyone cares! ;)
firefighter37
03-11-17, 05:47
KAC SR-15 CQB, Aimpoint T2, Surefire M300 mini scout.
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Like this?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170311/5f31b608b0fb6a01988b9c9bd53d3792.jpg
That was gonna be my recommendation or a Sionics SBR, because my RGP barrel is the funk.
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You would be surprised.
Yep. Cost is always a concern. Especially with smaller departments.
As a member, you should attempt to support companies here like SIONICS, SA, or SOLGW.
firefighter37
03-11-17, 07:34
As a member, you should attempt to support companies here like SIONICS, SA, or SOLGW.
Knights is a site sponsor too, even if they are a much bigger operation than the other 3, combined.
Knights is a site sponsor too, even if they are a much bigger operation than the other 3, combined.
Even as pro-police as I am, if I lived in the OP's jurisdiction as a taxpayer, I wouldn't be happy with paying that kind of coin for KAC when other perfectly fine options are available at lower cost. If it's out of pocket, all the power to 'em.
Eurodriver
03-11-17, 08:36
Yep. Cost is always a concern. Especially with smaller departments.
His department is pretty big...
And while I was of course teasing, my point was an agency that gives his HSLD guys SR16 and T2s has its priorities in the right place - not letting bean counters make equipment decisions.
Even as pro-police as I am, if I lived in the OP's jurisdiction as a taxpayer, I wouldn't be happy with paying that kind of coin for KAC when other perfectly fine options are available at lower cost. If it's out of pocket, all the power to 'em.
Where does that stop? .mil has some pretty expensive toys. You're paying for those too.
Mr. Goodtimes
03-11-17, 08:41
Ok Jack.
Lol
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170311/e076896334ee971801b86767c42110e0.jpg
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His department is pretty big...
And while I was of course teasing, my point was an agency that gives his HSLD guys SR16 and T2s has its priorities in the right place - not letting bean counters make equipment decisions.
Where does that stop? .mil has some pretty expensive toys. You're paying for those too.
Exactly. Where does it stop? What will a KAC give to a cruiser carbine that a 6920 couldn't besides higher cost and proprietary parts?
Eurodriver
03-11-17, 08:52
Exactly. Where does it stop? What will a KAC give to a cruiser carbine that a 6920 couldn't besides higher cost and proprietary parts?
I now see the issue. You think "LEO" = Patrol cop in your local city.
FBI HRT are "LEOs" along with a whole host of folks who've never seen the inside of a Crown Vic.
rapomstage3
03-11-17, 09:32
SIONICS deserves a hard look IMO. 11.5s with FSBs would be exceptional hotness.
Depending on funds maybe look at what KAC could offer. We run mod 1 SR16s with T2s at work but I have no idea on what the per unit cost is.
Is there a difference on an sr16 upper other than markings? Barrel thickness perhaps?
Jakedasnake
03-11-17, 09:32
LMT, end of story. Great Law enforcement program, and you can change barrel length, and or caliber in the blink of an eye with absolutely no change in POA, POI.
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Eurodriver
03-11-17, 09:39
LMT, end of story. Great Law enforcement program, and you can change barrel length, and or caliber in the blink of an eye with absolutely no change in POA, POI.
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Why would you ever need to do that
rapomstage3
03-11-17, 10:32
Why would you ever need to do that
Dude. Lull in a gunfight. Swap barrels when you're right next to a resupply crate. Then you're set up for some long-distance action. Oh wait a minute this is from a video game never mind.
Exactly. Where does it stop? What will a KAC give to a cruiser carbine that a 6920 couldn't besides higher cost and proprietary parts?
Proprietary- I don't think it's the concern people think it is
rapomstage3
03-11-17, 10:40
With Kac you're getting about double the component life regardless if it's proprietary. it's not like they're not going to supply them with extra spare parts. I kind a laugh at the whole proprietary thing as a bad idea because some of the most elite rifles on the planet like the SR 25 ,sr16 the HK series of rifles ,scars, fals all have a shit load of proprietary parts. I don't feel like it should be used against a company just because they're in the Ar15 family of rifles. If they come up with a way to improve the guns for reliability and make it better than the existing system then they shouldn't have to share it with everybody. And while the cold 6920 or 6933 is an awesome gun the other options offer a little more.
Jakedasnake
03-11-17, 10:49
Why would you ever need to do that
Well, for law enforcement (AhDuh), there are many specialized units. One may go from patrol, to swat, in a blink of an eye. If you want a heavy hitting package, 300BLK, over 5.56, it can be swapped out before you even leave home in under a minute. Or, if you need a SPR, you can go from a 10.5" barrel (Entry team), to a 16", 18", 20" barrel for longer range shooting/sniper (All the same caliber). But, I'm sure you're a professional, so the thought of such a concept would never arise for you; Super SEAL.
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Jakedasnake
03-11-17, 10:53
Dude. Lull in a gunfight. Swap barrels when you're right next to a resupply crate. Then you're set up for some long-distance action. Oh wait a minute this is from a video game never mind.
See above post^^^^ :-D
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Well, for law enforcement (AhDuh), there are many specialized units. One may go from patrol, to swat, in a blink of an eye. If you want a heavy hitting package, 300BLK, over 5.56, it can be swapped out before you even leave home in under a minute. Or, if you need a SPR, you can go from a 10.5" barrel (Entry team), to a 16", 18", 20" barrel for longer range shooting/sniper (All the same caliber). But, I'm sure you're a professional, so the thought of such a concept would never arise for you; Super SEAL.
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See above post^^^^ :-D
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All of which has nothing to do with the OPs request, but ok.
Sigh... I'm not sure why these threads tend to devolve into this.
Anyways, OP ya'll definitely have to figure out what specific capabilities you need and how much your willing to spend on however many sticks. I mentioned SIONICS as have alot of other folks. I don't doubt they are they are likely the most affordable of the bunch. Now in reference to my earlier post I will openly admit I have a born again KAC fan boy but all I said was I don't know what sort of pricing would be available on them in a contract arrangement.
Buy the best you guys can afford.
Oh hell. Just give'em slugs for their shotguns. :D
Mr. Goodtimes
03-11-17, 11:54
Like this?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170311/5f31b608b0fb6a01988b9c9bd53d3792.jpg
Yes, yes.... just like that.
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Eurodriver
03-11-17, 11:56
Firefighters think alike apparently.
FF37 you should bring that to a match up in Volusia. I think there's one in 2 weeks from tomorrow.
You will fit right in with that KAC :rolleyes:
rapomstage3
03-11-17, 11:57
You could use an extra pin in the lower.
Mr. Goodtimes
03-11-17, 12:15
Well, for law enforcement (AhDuh), there are many specialized units. One may go from patrol, to swat, in a blink of an eye. If you want a heavy hitting package, 300BLK, over 5.56, it can be swapped out before you even leave home in under a minute. Or, if you need a SPR, you can go from a 10.5" barrel (Entry team), to a 16", 18", 20" barrel for longer range shooting/sniper (All the same caliber). But, I'm sure you're a professional, so the thought of such a concept would never arise for you; Super SEAL.
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While not a SEAL, I do believe his former job title started with 03... so that's worth something.
First off, quick change barrels and caliber conversion was not something the OP speced out. Furthermore, it's not really even a valid need for most people, much less a law enforcement agency. An 11.5" 5.56 SBR with a red dot or LPV and the option of a suppressor is about as ideal a social rifle as it gets. The last thing a department wants is another caliber (an expensive one at that) in inventory that provides nominal gains except under highly niche circumstances. Those highly niche circumstances being subsonic suppressed use, which I can't really see an application for in CONUS LE use.
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OP, this is a golden age of weapons as there are plenty of quality options. My list would be the following:
- 11.5" bbl (could go with a 12")
- Free floated hand guard with M-lok. I'd make it a 10.7 or so (11" CMR for a 12" bbl).
- Fold down irons (MBUS or Troy - they are backups and unless you're in a really rural area KAC 600's are nice but overkill)
- Vltor A5 RE. More forgiving of various configurations.
- Geissele SD-C trigger
- Ambi charging handle (Geissele, BCM Mod44)
- BCG in NP3 from a trusted source (Wilson, Sionics)
- Ambi safety that allows for the support side to be shorter (such as BAD-ASS)
- 5.56 NATO or 223 Wylde chamber.
Optics could be its own discussion. For general issue I'd go with an a Aimpoint ACO or PRO. Maybe a Sig Romeo 4M. I'd allow officers to buy and use their own 1-? LPV if it was quality.
I'd allow options for the stock and pistol grip.
Are suppressors a consideration? That will affect muzzle devices and hand guard length.
What lights are allowed? If money is an issue put Inforce WML's at 12 o'clock. If not I'd want Scout lights at 11 or 1 o'clock.
As for the proprietary conscerns I see that as benefit in an agency. Keeps the bean counter admin shits from buying crap parts to save money, endangering the officers and public.
Factory guns, I'd look at 11.5" offerings from DD, Sionics, KAC, Wilson Combat, and ADM. Given their continual financial struggles I'd avoid Colt.
Thanks for all the input so far. I already recommended Aimpoint T1/T2/PROs or Trijicon MROs over the Eotechs they had listed and offered the Colt 6933 as a lower cost option if the DDs were too expensive. I'll check out the Sionics as well. I wouldn't mind having a more Ambi option though I'm not sure what is available beyond KAC which is probably out of the cost bracket. If we did 6933s I'm not sure what to recommend for lights and attachment method. We could do a drop in rail but I know they won't want to install FF rails. Factory installed would be fine but they will want as little mods as possible on our end.
Also interested in light and sling recommendations. We have Streamlight TLR-1s on our handguns and they seem to have held up fine. They originally speced X300Vs but we don't have NV so X300Us are probably better for our use if we go Surefire.
KAC SR-15 CQB, Aimpoint T2, Surefire M300 mini scout.
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This.
cougar_guy04
03-11-17, 15:29
Well, for law enforcement (AhDuh), there are many specialized units. One may go from patrol, to swat, in a blink of an eye. If you want a heavy hitting package, 300BLK, over 5.56, it can be swapped out before you even leave home in under a minute. Or, if you need a SPR, you can go from a 10.5" barrel (Entry team), to a 16", 18", 20" barrel for longer range shooting/sniper (All the same caliber). But, I'm sure you're a professional, so the thought of such a concept would never arise for you; Super SEAL.
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And swapping out those barrels "in the blink of an eye" without verifying the zero is . . . (Bueller, Bueller) a damned lawsuit waiting to happen. Sorry, dude, the quick change barrel thing is an overhyped feature that adds cost/complexity with not much real-world benefit.
jackblack73
03-11-17, 15:36
As far as I'm concerned, ever AR has a quick change barrel. Just replace the upper. Sure, it's more expensive than just changing the barrel, but it's faster, simpler, and you don't have to worry about zero. Quick change barrels are more marketing gimmick than anything.
Jakedasnake
03-11-17, 15:37
And swapping out those barrels "in the blink of an eye" without verifying the zero is . . . (Bueller, Bueller) a damned lawsuit waiting to happen. Sorry, dude, the quick change barrel thing is an overhyped feature that adds cost/complexity with not much real-world benefit.
Mmmmmmm, M-K. Bottom line, their rifles are in service throughout the world with many military's. I have their products, they've been tested and evaluated for over ten years, and still command a premium. They've went up against many rifles mentioned here, and destroyed them in those competitions. See: SWAT magazine (Don't know the issue, but it's in one of last years, Recoil mag, along with a host of others throughout the decade.)
Hey, if one doesn't want to switch barrels, no problem, go with 5.56. It'll still outperform many platforms mentioned here. That being said, if you don't own, nor have ever handled one, you'll never know; now will you? I've owned my two for over 6 years now, and after running them hella hard, I've never even had a single problem.
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Eurodriver
03-11-17, 16:03
Hella hard, you say?
Where at?
Mmmmmmm, M-K. Bottom line, their rifles are in service throughout the world with many military's. I have their products, they've been tested and evaluated for over ten years, and still command a premium. They've went up against many rifles mentioned here, and destroyed them in those competitions. See: SWAT magazine (Don't know the issue, but it's in one of last years, Recoil mag, along with a host of others throughout the decade.)
Hey, if one doesn't want to switch barrels, no problem, go with 5.56. It'll still outperform many platforms mentioned here. That being said, if you don't own, nor have ever handled one, you'll never know; now will you? I've owned my two for over 6 years now, and after running them hella hard, I've never even had a single problem.
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Damn. You run them hella hard? I don't think I've ever heard of anyone running a gun hella hard.
Beat Trash
03-11-17, 16:31
Thanks for all the input so far. I already recommended Aimpoint T1/T2/PROs or Trijicon MROs over the Eotechs they had listed and offered the Colt 6933 as a lower cost option if the DDs were too expensive. I'll check out the Sionics as well. I wouldn't mind having a more Ambi option though I'm not sure what is available beyond KAC which is probably out of the cost bracket. If we did 6933s I'm not sure what to recommend for lights and attachment method. We could do a drop in rail but I know they won't want to install FF rails. Factory installed would be fine but they will want as little mods as possible on our end.
Also interested in light and sling recommendations. We have Streamlight TLR-1s on our handguns and they seem to have held up fine. They originally speced X300Vs but we don't have NV so X300Us are probably better for our use if we go Surefire.
If your agency goes with the Colt 6933, I would recommend buying MagPul MOE sl hand guards, and a cantilever rail section for each gun. Add a Surefire X300U-b and be done with it.
My agency is in the process of adding an additional 120 Patrol Rifles (16" barrels, long story...) and the lights that are going on the new guns are the Surefire X300U-b's. The original Patrol rifles have the old Surefire light that was integrated with the hand guard (Pre-LEDs, the damn things have light bulbs!). At some point the old guns will get a light upgrade, which will most likely involve simply adding the MagPul MOE sl hand guard, cantilever rail and a Surefire X300.
I personally prefer the Surefire Scout lights for my carbines. But I can live with the X300U setup.
As for slings, the problem is if you have pool guns and left handed officers. We added a MagPUl ASAP end plate to the new guns and use the MagPul MS3 Gen2 sling. The new guns are also getting fitted with Aimpoint PRO RDS. Older Patrol Rifles are iron sights only. Hopefully at some point, the funds will become available to upgrade these guns with Aimpoint Pro's as well.
So far this setup has been well received, works ok for non-gun people and for left handed officers.
While I would prefer a 11.5" free floated barrel and a 10" M-Lok rail if I were you, the cold hard fact is cost does play into the equation. Especially if your senior command are not gun people. Trying to justify the additional cost of the base gun by going to a free floated hand guard over what Agency cost is for a Colt 6933 could be a tough sell.
If your agency goes with the Colt 6933, I would recommend buying MagPul MOE sl hand guards, and a cantilever rail section for each gun. Add a Surefire X300U-b and be done with it.
My agency is in the process of adding an additional 120 Patrol Rifles (16" barrels, long story...) and the lights that are going on the new guns are the Surefire X300U-b's. The original Patrol rifles have the old Surefire light that was integrated with the hand guard (Pre-LEDs, the damn things have light bulbs!). At some point the old guns will get a light upgrade, which will most likely involve simply adding the MagPul MOE sl hand guard, cantilever rail and a Surefire X300.
I personally prefer the Surefire Scout lights for my carbines. But I can live with the X300U setup.
As for slings, the problem is if you have pool guns and left handed officers. We added a MagPUl ASAP end plate to the new guns and use the MagPul MS3 Gen2 sling. The new guns are also getting fitted with Aimpoint PRO RDS. Older Patrol Rifles are iron sights only. Hopefully at some point, the funds will become available to upgrade these guns with Aimpoint Pro's as well.
So far this setup has been well received, works ok for non-gun people and for left handed officers.
While I would prefer a 11.5" free floated barrel and a 10" M-Lok rail if I were you, the cold hard fact is cost does play into the equation. Especially if your senior command are not gun people. Trying to justify the additional cost of the base gun by going to a free floated hand guard over what Agency cost is for a Colt 6933 could be a tough sell.
Thanks for the input. These would be individually issued. We are trying to have enough so each officer is issued an AR to keep regardless of their assignment and keep them consistent across the board. Now we give patrol officers 16" rifles, SWAT 11.5" ARs and an MP5, and then issue MP5s with single fire trigger groups to detectives and a few others. We want to eventually have everyone with an AR they keep and get rid of the MP5s (maybe keep a few for SWAT but not issued out otherwise). Plus the rifles we have are 10 year old Bushmasters (with A2 uppers that aren't conducive to optics) that weren't that good when we got them and have had a few issues.
MOE SL hand guards were the route I was thinking of suggesting, as long as the light mounts will hold up.
For slings: how are the Magpul MS4 slings? I like the idea of being convertible between single and two point so they can be adjusted to the individual's preference.
gunnerblue
03-11-17, 17:26
For rural LE work I prefer a light with greater throw. I've used a Sreamlight HPL and while the throw was very long, I did not care for the activation method and bulkiest of the light. Surefire Scouts are more streamlined and the shrouded activation minimizes accidental discharges. I use a M600U in a new extended Thorntail mount so that I can place my support hand out further. Target identification is easy within 100 meters. I have no experience with the M300 series or Streamlight handgun lights.
Mmmmmmm, M-K. Bottom line, their rifles are in service throughout the world with many military's. I have their products, they've been tested and evaluated for over ten years, and still command a premium. They've went up against many rifles mentioned here, and destroyed them in those competitions. See: SWAT magazine (Don't know the issue, but it's in one of last years, Recoil mag, along with a host of others throughout the decade.)
Hey, if one doesn't want to switch barrels, no problem, go with 5.56. It'll still outperform many platforms mentioned here. That being said, if you don't own, nor have ever handled one, you'll never know; now will you? I've owned my two for over 6 years now, and after running them hella hard, I've never even had a single problem.
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You mean HK? Correct?
Jakedasnake
03-11-17, 17:29
You mean HK? Correct?
No, LOL Mmmmm-K
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I can heartily second the Slimline furniture on the 6933. That's what I've got and while I haven't shot much yet, I really like the combination
How often do line patrol types use their patrol rifle?
KAC is overkill for my tax dollars, just like it would be overkill for KAC for every soldier in the military.
SWAT? Sure. Can't be cool w/o the cool toys.
Patrol duty? Get a Colt or BCM and call it a day.
Or keep fighting like the little girls in the makeup aisle.
firefighter37
03-11-17, 18:58
How often do line patrol types use their patrol rifle?
KAC is overkill for my tax dollars, just like it would be overkill for KAC for every soldier in the military.
SWAT? Sure. Can't be cool w/o the cool toys.
Patrol duty? Get a Colt or BCM and call it a day.
Or keep fighting like the little girls in the makeup aisle.
Might seem like overkill, but when you are the one who's life depends on it, you want the BEST. Not saying there is anything wrong with the other ones, but in my opinion, KAC is the best, and if I had to pick one gun to make sure I make it home to my family, it would be a KAC.
/FANBOY
Can we please knock off the childish bullshit and focus on the the topic at hand?
Can we please knock off the childish bullshit and focus on the the topic at hand?
Thank you.
I have no idea who he works for or anything else. But, I would be shocked if you could find many agencies using KAC rifles. There are agencies right now playing Gladiator and fighting for scraps of food in the arena. Many of them can't even get funding for lights and optics and I know some guys who are paying out of pocket.
These aren't little 10 man departments either.
Might seem like overkill, but when you are the one who's life depends on it, you want the BEST. Not saying there is anything wrong with the other ones, but in my opinion, KAC is the best, and if I had to pick one gun to make sure I make it home to my family, it would be a KAC.
/FANBOY
Ok, I regret even bringing KAC into this thread.
Beat Trash
03-11-17, 23:11
I have no idea who he works for or anything else. But, I would be shocked if you could find many agencies using KAC rifles. There are agencies right now playing Gladiator and fighting for scraps of food in the arena. Many of them can't even get funding for lights and optics and I know some guys who are paying out of pocket.
These aren't little 10 man departments either.
Yep...
Beat Trash
03-11-17, 23:18
Thanks for the input. These would be individually issued. We are trying to have enough so each officer is issued an AR to keep regardless of their assignment and keep them consistent across the board. Now we give patrol officers 16" rifles, SWAT 11.5" ARs and an MP5, and then issue MP5s with single fire trigger groups to detectives and a few others. We want to eventually have everyone with an AR they keep and get rid of the MP5s (maybe keep a few for SWAT but not issued out otherwise). Plus the rifles we have are 10 year old Bushmasters (with A2 uppers that aren't conducive to optics) that weren't that good when we got them and have had a few issues.
MOE SL hand guards were the route I was thinking of suggesting, as long as the light mounts will hold up.
For slings: how are the Magpul MS4 slings? I like the idea of being convertible between single and two point so they can be adjusted to the individual's preference.
The cantilever polymer rails are good, for individual usage. For agency usage, I might go with the aluminum version of the same rail.
My agency uses the MS3 sling with the paraclip attachment. I carry a personally owned/departmentally approved rifle. On my gun, I use the MagPul MS4 sling. My gun is normally set up for a two point sling, but I like having the option to quickly go to a single point, should the situation change where a single point wold be advantageous. I used a BFG VCAS for several years, but I find the MS4 to be more comfortable around my neck if slung up for an extended period. I also prefer the lack of a tab hanging out to adjust the sling.
Might seem like overkill, but when you are the one who's life depends on it, you want the BEST. Not saying there is anything wrong with the other ones, but in my opinion, KAC is the best, and if I had to pick one gun to make sure I make it home to my family, it would be a KAC.
/FANBOY
Well that is what a Personally Owned Patrol Rifle program is for. ;)
Ok, I regret even bringing KAC into this thread.
Not your fault that some act like this place is the high school cafeteria.
There are plenty of agencies that don't allow it. And the ones that do require you to only purchase what's on their approved list.
Well that is what a Personally Owned Patrol Rifle program is for. ;)
noonesshowmonkey
03-12-17, 14:15
My dept is looking to buy some new patrol rifles and looking at SBR size rifles. Help me spec out a factory rifle/optic(non-magnified/red dot)/light/sling/etc.
The current suggestion is a DD V7S. Certainly a nice rifle but I'm not sure I like the lack of sights, though the DD fixed sight set would probably be added.
I am not sure what the Agency price for a DD is, in bulk, but DD is generally very spendy.
I'd focus on the requirements first, and brand second. Which requirements, I'd be looking for these features:
10.5-11.5 inch SBR
Magpul / Quad Rail fore-end
White Light
Optic
Sling
The SBR issue isn't much of a problem, given that these are government agency owned. For the distances and usages of LE (and even modern combat, given the Mk18 program), the short barreled rifle is king. You'll need some kind of fore-end that allows for the easy attachment of a white light, at minimum. That the end-user can slap any extra cool-kid crap on there is a secondary benefit of a good fore-end. You'll need a red dot optic: folks just shoot better/faster with them, and there really isn't a reason to not have one. Then, a sling. The Magpul MS4 would be fine, but honestly, I think you'd probably do just fine with BFG VCAS. If guys want a single point for SWAT work, that can be an individual choice. Try to find an economical 2-point solution with either QD or clasps. Then again, just webbing has worked for ages.
I know that Colt offers a pretty serious Agency level discount. The 6933 is the place that I'd start, as others have mentioned. From there, the move towards the Magpul SL fore-end so that you can mount white lights is the obvious choice. I am not sure what an agency level armorer's view of the monolithic upper would be, but the 6940s have quad rails and QD, which alleviates a lot of the problems of the 6933. If you can start with factory rifles that have an M-Lok / Quad Rail / whatever fore-end, I think that's worth a lot. They can be RMA'd as is, they don't require armorers to strip and re-mount any gear (and thereby screw something up), etc.
Finally, if I had the power to issue rifles to my agency (which I certainly don't), I'd be looking at Sionics patrol rifle SBRs. They would mount either a Surefire Scout or a Streamlight RML, maybe an Inforce WML Gen 2. I'd put an Aimpoint PRO or Trijicon MRO on top. Add a BFG VCAS, and we're done. As an off-the-street level consumer, you're looking at ~$2000 ($1250 for the rifle, $450 for the optic, $60 for the sling, $150 for the light) for that setup.
Agency price on SIONICS is lower due to FET exemption, and a few other factors.
I am not sure what the Agency price for a DD is, in bulk, but DD is generally very spendy.
I'd focus on the requirements first, and brand second. Which requirements, I'd be looking for these features:
10.5-11.5 inch SBR
Magpul / Quad Rail fore-end
White Light
Optic
Sling
The SBR issue isn't much of a problem, given that these are government agency owned. For the distances and usages of LE (and even modern combat, given the Mk18 program), the short barreled rifle is king. You'll need some kind of fore-end that allows for the easy attachment of a white light, at minimum. That the end-user can slap any extra cool-kid crap on there is a secondary benefit of a good fore-end. You'll need a red dot optic: folks just shoot better/faster with them, and there really isn't a reason to not have one. Then, a sling. The Magpul MS4 would be fine, but honestly, I think you'd probably do just fine with BFG VCAS. If guys want a single point for SWAT work, that can be an individual choice. Try to find an economical 2-point solution with either QD or clasps. Then again, just webbing has worked for ages.
I know that Colt offers a pretty serious Agency level discount. The 6933 is the place that I'd start, as others have mentioned. From there, the move towards the Magpul SL fore-end so that you can mount white lights is the obvious choice. I am not sure what an agency level armorer's view of the monolithic upper would be, but the 6940s have quad rails and QD, which alleviates a lot of the problems of the 6933. If you can start with factory rifles that have an M-Lok / Quad Rail / whatever fore-end, I think that's worth a lot. They can be RMA'd as is, they don't require armorers to strip and re-mount any gear (and thereby screw something up), etc.
Finally, if I had the power to issue rifles to my agency (which I certainly don't), I'd be looking at Sionics patrol rifle SBRs. They would mount either a Surefire Scout or a Streamlight RML, maybe an Inforce WML Gen 2. I'd put an Aimpoint PRO or Trijicon MRO on top. Add a BFG VCAS, and we're done. As an off-the-street level consumer, you're looking at ~$2000 ($1250 for the rifle, $450 for the optic, $60 for the sling, $150 for the light) for that setup.
I've seen the MOE SL handguard mentioned several times; my personal SBR (used as an LE patrol rifle) has one and it just flat works. If a Surefire Scout or Streamlight RM1 is the desired light, look hard at the Impact Weapons Components mounts for MOE handguards. The setup is simple, solid, and relatively cop proof.
There are plenty of agencies that don't allow it. And the ones that do require you to only purchase what's on their approved list.
Understood, I stand by my opinion that KAC ARs for every Tom, Dick, and Harry LEO is massive overkill.
My agency issues Colt 6933's for SBR's. The are equipped with the traditional removable carry handle though we still have some older A2's in the armory for back-up weapobs. Approved optics are Aimpoint (PRO @ a minimum) EoTech (XPS3 or EXPS3)
Trijicon ACOG and must be purchased by individual officers (usually through uniform allowance money) and you must qualify with your optic.
Can't really go wrong with a Colt as a dept./agency issued SBR.
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I'm not arguing that point and I won't tell an agency how to spend tax dollars.
Understood, I stand by my opinion that KAC ARs for every Tom, Dick, and Harry LEO is massive overkill.
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