View Full Version : Recommendation on Colt clone engraving on 80% lower
dennis1979gm
03-12-17, 15:40
Looking to do a clone off an 80% and would like to have someone engrave colt style M4 logos on it. At this point it 80% and thought it would be cool for a little more authentic looking on a block 1. Thanks in advance.
MOLON AABE
03-12-17, 20:21
Due to the fact it's an 80% lower, few legitimate shops will want to touch it with a ten foot pole. Just my own personal experiences attempting to get an 80% lower properly anodized, so I could be way off on this. I don't see why an 80% lower/firearm should present any more of an issue than sending off a pre 1968 sans serial number firearm to get work done.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
look up John Brace on AR15.com
Due to the fact it's an 80% lower, few legitimate shops will want to touch it with a ten foot pole. Just my own personal experiences attempting to get an 80% lower properly anodized, so I could be way off on this. I don't see why an 80% lower/firearm should present any more of an issue than sending off a pre 1968 sans serial number firearm to get work done.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
It is nothing more than a chunk of aluminum if it is an 80% lower. Get it engraved before it becomes a firearm.
Why would you attempt to have someone engrave a falst Colt rollmark onto a lower that's obviously not produced nor licensed by Colt?
If you do find someone who can properly copy their markings, good luck anodizing like others have said. Going to be a difficult process.
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Never used them but they came up in a quick Google search.
http://www.lasar15.com/mail-in-engraving/24-mail-in-clone-engraving.html
MOLON AABE
03-13-17, 12:49
It is nothing more than a chunk of aluminum if it is an 80% lower. Get it engraved before it becomes a firearm.
I understand that, you understand that. The problem becomes when one or both of the other two concerned parties get thier jimmies in a rustle. The BATFE and the FFL/Shop doing the engraving, anodizing, gunsmithing etc.
Shops have been raided and shut down for less in regards 80% lowers. If it can even slightly be construed as assisting in the manufacturing process the BATFE will generally have some unpleasant things to say.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
JSchell1309
03-13-17, 13:47
Why would you attempt to have someone engrave a falst Colt rollmark onto a lower that's obviously not produced nor licensed by Colt?
If you do find someone who can properly copy their markings, good luck anodizing like others have said. Going to be a difficult process.
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Someone would want to do that to get as clone correct as possible to a rifle currently used in the military. The commercial Colt lowers sold today have differences in the roll mark compared to the lowers supplied under military contract. It is to get as clone correct as possible.
No one is wanting to go through this trouble to try to pass off a knock off Colt and profit from it. After you get the 80%, the jig, engrave it, coat it, then spend the time milling it out you are at far higher cost than just buying a Colt stock lower.
wildcard600
03-13-17, 14:39
If the lower hasn't already been anodized you could salt water etch it.
http://dogfightink.com/80percentlowersmarkings.html
StevieJ309
03-13-17, 16:54
look up John Brace on AR15.com
This is who you seek. Braceman is pretty much the go-to guy for clone engraving.
I also don't get what the issue is? Tons of people have gone this route without issue. Send the 80% off for engraving - finish it out yourself when it returns - send it back out for anodizing.
dennis1979gm
03-15-17, 01:18
Thanks for the heads up guys! I just ordered some stencils. I didn't know it would be deep enough to cerakote over but it looks like if you do it long enough it will. If it goes south I'll look up that gentleman on arfcom. Thanks again for the responses!
Leaveammoforme
03-15-17, 02:21
If the lower hasn't already been anodized you could salt water etch it.
http://dogfightink.com/80percentlowersmarkings.html
Would be curious what the owners of the trademarks think. I'd assume KAC, Colt, Umbrella, Bushmaster & HK all have decent lawyers.
Would be curious what the owners of the trademarks think. I'd assume KAC, Colt, Umbrella, Bushmaster & HK all have decent lawyers.
He says he will do a custom serial number if you want. I am sure big brother will like that! In the end the person doing the etching will be as liable as the guy cutting the decals.
Would be curious what the owners of the trademarks think. I'd assume KAC, Colt, Umbrella, Bushmaster & HK all have decent lawyers.
That's also what I was trying to get at in my previous post. I understand people want their builds to be identical to military issue as possible but falsely branding a firearm may be an issue. Not saying the OP's intent is to mislead someone with Colt markings, but there are people out there (not really found on this forum) who look to deceive people to make a profit.
I hope everything works out with the build but I would be careful when it comes to infringing on a company's trademark or logo.
jackblack73
03-16-17, 14:26
I don't practice intellectual property law, but I don't think there's a problem if it's for personal use. Very different if someone is using someone's IP for profit. Personally, I still wouldn't do it though. It just rubs me the wrong way.
Leaveammoforme
03-16-17, 15:09
I don't practice intellectual property law, but I don't think there's a problem if it's for personal use. Very different if someone is using someone's IP for profit. Personally, I still wouldn't do it though. It just rubs me the wrong way.
The link posted by Wildcard is of a person/business that sells stencils for the salt etching. The trademarked designs cost more than a frog stencil so maybe there is some sort of agreement.
I wonder what Jack thinks?
ETA: I PM'ed Jack already so we don't need to flood his inbox.
Also, I noticed some of the stencils have a third hole spot. While I don't agree one bit, I believe the ATF considers a recess to be the same as a hole in that general location.
I don't practice intellectual property law, but I don't think there's a problem if it's for personal use. Very different if someone is using someone's IP for profit. Personally, I still wouldn't do it though. It just rubs me the wrong way.
The problem wouldn't be the personal ownership without intent to defraud, the problem is the company selling them is doing so with intent to defraud.
Did Bill Geissele give him permission to use his logo and make money? Possibly, but I doubt it. Did Mrs Noveske? I really really doubt it.
I find it extra poor form the site slapping their logo all over everything so people don't steal the image which it looks like they have already stolen.
556BlackRifle
03-16-17, 20:32
I agree. Extremely poor form - ripping off other peoples intellectual property for profit. (Or even for personal use.) I hope someone drops the hammer on this miscreant.
I think this is a horrible idea. This is some Bubba shit. I handled my fair share of Colts in the Army- I never saw one identical roll mark, or design for that matter. When I got out and built my clone deployment rifle I did it he right way- by purchasing a Colt 6920 rollmarked M4 Carbine and SBR'd it. This is like building a watch and trying to find a way to put a Rolex logo on it.
There should be a way to link threads like this to TOS. Like just send them there.
I agree. Extremely poor form - ripping off other peoples intellectual property for profit. (Or even for personal use.) I hope someone drops the hammer on this miscreant.
One of his pictures is of one of my old weapons, which makes it a little harder for me to stomach as well. Right down to the same funky billet lower, and I have NEVER seen a build similar to it.
Eurodriver
03-17-17, 07:42
I find it extra poor form the site slapping their logo all over everything so people don't steal the image which it looks like they have already stolen.
Same.
Looking to do a clone off an 80% and would like to have someone engrave colt style M4 logos on it. At this point it 80% and thought it would be cool for a little more authentic looking on a block 1. Thanks in advance.
Sounds like a possible concern regarding legal violation of trademark and copyright laws.
Tactical Spork
04-27-17, 15:44
This is who you seek. Braceman is pretty much the go-to guy for clone engraving.
I also don't get what the issue is? Tons of people have gone this route without issue. Send the 80% off for engraving - finish it out yourself when it returns - send it back out for anodizing.
If you don't mind me asking, who do you send your lowers to for anodizing? I've been trying to find a place to do it
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