View Full Version : Primary Arms 1-6x Gen 3 Scope
Mrgunsngear
03-16-17, 09:08
http://i.imgur.com/ERHQvR6l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qRS7sOhl.jpg
These have been out for a few weeks now, my thoughts:
Pros:
-ACSS reticle is one of the, if not the best, BDC on the market (according to this guy)
-lifetime warranty
-Chevron aiming point allows for increased precision when zeroing
-reduced weight over previous versions and competitive options
-takes all common 30mm mounts
-Under $300 street price
-improved scope caps vs. earlier generations
Cons:
-whether it's "daylight bright" is up for debate
Full review:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS-ZSJPZT1I
Great review. I just wish they had a longer warranty. However I have eight of their products.
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The gen 3 warranty is now lifetime instead of just 3 years.
I bought a gen2 last summer and I really like it, my only compliant is it's heavy. The new gen3 isn't much lighter but there are improvements and this makes me want to buy the new version.
Thanks for the review.
Great review! Thank you for taking the time to put it together.
Great review.
One question though. If you had to choose between the Gen III 1-6 and the newer 1-8 you reviewed earlier, which one would you pick?
I'm thinking of picking up one of these myself, but I'm interested in hearing how they compare. I watched your Gen II 1-6 vs 1-8 video and came away thinking the 1-8 was the better option but I'm curious to see if that changed with the Gen III 1-6.
An excellent review! That looks like a lot of scope for the money, but the reticle looks a little busy.
An excellent review! That looks like a lot of scope for the money, but the reticle looks a little busy.
I have a gen2 and other than the gen3 uses a Chevron instead of a dot, it's not bad. I find it easy to use and fairly intuitive.
I'm looking for another budget scope and I believe this will once again be it.
I'm going to be getting the Trijicon ACOG with the ACSS reticle for my main carbine. After using the Primary Arms 1-6X scope with the ACSS reticle, I really like it.
RobertTheTexan
03-18-17, 23:15
I have a gen2 and other than the gen3 uses a Chevron instead of a dot, it's not bad. I find it easy to use and fairly intuitive.
I'm looking for another budget scope and I believe this will once again be it.
I'm going to be getting the Trijicon ACOG with the ACSS reticle for my main carbine. After using the Primary Arms 1-6X scope with the ACSS reticle, I really like it.
Is Trijicon in a partnership with Primary Arms? I was under the impression PA had the patent on the ACSS. Do you know?
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RobertTheTexan
03-18-17, 23:17
An excellent review! That looks like a lot of scope for the money, but the reticle looks a little busy.
That is my exact hesitation on the scope as well. It just looks too busy for what I like. That's said I wouldn't mind getting my hands on one and running it a few weeks. But as a matter of preference I like my reticles cleaner.
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Is Trijicon in a partnership with Primary Arms? I was under the impression PA had the patent on the ACSS. Do you know?
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I just know that Primary Arms offers Trijicon ACOG with the ACSS reticle in both red and green.
I guess that it is some kind of contact or partnership. It's only available from Primary Arms as far as I know.
My biggest decision after using the Primary Arms 1-6X scope with the ACSS reticle when I buy the Trijicon ACOG with the ACSS reticle is which color?
I'm leaning towards the green reticle. But I have had Limited use of green reticles.
Mrgunsngear
03-19-17, 19:22
Is Trijicon in a partnership with Primary Arms? I was under the impression PA had the patent on the ACSS. Do you know?
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Trijicon is licensing the reticle as I understand it. Perhaps there are plans to add it to more Trijicon optics :cool:
I haven't handled the Primary Arms Gen III scope, but I'm seriously underwhelmed by their 1-6x Gen II with ACSS reticle.
The glass clarity is poor and the illumination isn't very good. And the glass is smudged on the inside and activating the illumination causes everything to have a red hazy glow. Lastly the illumination flickers with even the slightest touch of the control knob and it isn't reliable.
fedupflyer
03-20-17, 20:31
Which Trijicon low power scopes have the ACSS style recticle that includes windage with the BDC?
I looked and don't really see one.
Just the TA31 (red and green).
http://www.primaryarms.com/trijicon-acog-4x32-scope-with-red-dual-illumination-acss-reticle-ta31-r-acss
http://www.primaryarms.com/trijicon-acog-4x32-scope-with-green-dual-illumination-acss-reticle-ta31-g-acss
fedupflyer
03-20-17, 22:31
That explains it. I was looking at the Trijicon site and variable power optics.
Trijicon is licensing the reticle as I understand it. Perhaps there are plans to add it to more Trijicon optics :cool:
Man, I hope they come out with an MRO with the ACSS CQB reticle, that would be sweet!
RobertTheTexan
03-21-17, 18:15
I just know that Primary Arms offers Trijicon ACOG with the ACSS reticle in both red and green.
I guess that it is some kind of contact or partnership. It's only available from Primary Arms as far as I know.
My biggest decision after using the Primary Arms 1-6X scope with the ACSS reticle when I buy the Trijicon ACOG with the ACSS reticle is which color?
I'm leaning towards the green reticle. But I have had Limited use of green reticles.
I do believe green is more daylight friendly. Might be wrong, but that's what my own eyeballs tell me anyway.
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fallenromeo
03-21-17, 18:55
Man, I hope they come out with an MRO with the ACSS CQB reticle, that would be sweet!
Primary arms sells a Holosun with the ACSS reticle, so they are putting them in RDS. Perhaps a MRO is not far away?
Do the PA 1X6's hold up in high round count (1,00 rounds) weekend classes?
Anyone heard of them going down?
Where are they made?
everready73
01-08-19, 07:45
Do the PA 1X6's hold up in high round count (1,00 rounds) weekend classes?
Anyone heard of them going down?
Where are they made?
They are made in China, but i havent heard of very many issues at all with these. They have a lifetime warranty and PA service is awesome if you would need to use it.
That being said we are in a competitive market and there are some other good options that are more "duty grade' if you could spend up around $500. If i was buying a LPVO today i would be looking at
Steiner P4XI- This is a 1x4, but has german Schott glass, daylight bright reticle and very durable. DSG has sales on this and they can be found for around $475 if you look around
Burris XTR 2- Natchez has these on sale and they have a couple different options- Made in Phillipines i believe. Have a good glass and built like a tank
Primary Arms FFP Raptor- this is a FFP 1-6 that has a really good reticle and better glass than the standard gen 3 1-6
Burris RT6- good value pick for around $350- reports are great glass and good illumination
I have a Steiner 1-4x and really like it.
Garand Thumb has a review on the Raptor. Still not sure if I would like an FFP in an LPV setup for 3 gun.
Garand Thumb doesn't recommend the Raptor for a patrol optic.
I'm looking for 1X6 duty grade optic thats kind of between a budget model and the Razor HD.
Garand Thumb doesn't recommend the Raptor for a patrol optic.
I'm looking for 1X6 duty grade optic thats kind of between a budget model and the Razor HD.
Vortex PST Gen 2 1-6x24, around $600.
everready73
01-09-19, 07:57
Garand Thumb doesn't recommend the Raptor for a patrol optic.
I'm looking for 1X6 duty grade optic thats kind of between a budget model and the Razor HD.
What distances will you have to shoot?
The P4XI is checks all the boxes at a great price if you can deal with 1-4
Vortex PST Gen 2 listed above is prob best 1-6 option for your requirements
The XTR 2 is really good and has a few different mag ranges. I like these better than vortex personally
What distances will you have to shoot?
The P4XI is checks all the boxes at a great price if you can deal with 1-4
Vortex PST Gen 2 listed above is prob best 1-6 option for your requirements
The XTR 2 is really good and has a few different mag ranges. I like these better than vortex personally
Being able to PID at distance is a greater priority to me than shooting beyond 100 yards.
Garand Thumb doesn't recommend the Raptor for a patrol optic.
I could recall that, but couldn't think of why. I do recall the DeFoor video on not really advocating ffp scopes below 1-8x though.
Being able to PID at distance is a greater priority to me than shooting beyond 100 yards.
If you aren't stuck on the 1-6 part, I assume the VX-R 2-7x has the same positive attributes of clarity, durability, and weight vs. Cost as the 1.25-4x models which get a good review in post #20
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?212045-Best-value-quot-duty-grade-quot-LVPO/page2
I have a Hog VX-R and had a Patrol. Liked the Patrol reticle circle slightly better, but the non capped/non locking turrets were a no go. I would also assume the 2-7's larger objective would be a bonus in low light considering the 1.25-4x is pretty good at.
RobertTheTexan
01-09-19, 18:25
Being able to PID at distance is a greater priority to me than shooting beyond 100 yards.
If you can pick up a a Burris XTR II 1-8 I believe you would be very very pleased. I have their 1-8 FFP and their XTR II 1.5-8 Dual Focal Plane. I can run both optics CQB, and the glass is really good. Better than my Viper PST glass. Eye relief is good, I run my stocks in the 4 position and from 1-8 I have no issues. Eye box is pretty forgiving although it does tighten up a little at 8x, it is definitely usable and still quick. Part of it is also that I like the Burris circle dot reticles. I know you said this is a duty optic, and I’m a little hesitant to mention this, but I will.
If you aren’t completely opposed to it, look for a used optic. It’s really a safe bet because of the Burris “Forever warranty” literally no questions asked no matter if you’re the 5th ownerless the 50th. I’ll be honest, I’ve bought 2 optics brand new. If you trust the brand and they have an excellent warranty, I think it’s a win. It allows me to pick up a really good optic at a really good price. I paid $400 for the 1.5 -8 and $600 for the 1-8. I also buy from E&E members whom I can trust. Would I run either of these optics I own on a duty rifle? Yes I would. They’re both 34mm and just very well built. The 1.5-8 is on my LMT MWS and the 1-8 FFP is on a 14.5 Noveske. Zero issues/zero disappointments. Oh as an aside I emailed Burris and told them I lost the turret caps and small turrets for one of my scopes. That was this morning. This afternoon I got a shipment notice and an email saying. They are mailing me both caps, turrets and new flip up scope covers that I can’t find.
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Clearly the Razor HD is the standard. Below that while there seems to be many decent options there doesn't seem to be a clear choice on an optic in the mid price point range.
everready73
01-10-19, 07:58
EuroOptic has the Vortex Razor on sale for $899. This should solve your problems
https://www.eurooptic.com/ProductComparison.aspx?prods=C6B345D5-85F9-4AEE-ACD1-E4B4C25BC5AE_346BDE81-F310-4638-9EE4-9F247E00BEA7&categoryId=Search
If you aren't stuck on the 1-6 part, I assume the VX-R 2-7x has the same positive attributes of clarity, durability, and weight vs. Cost as the 1.25-4x models which get a good review in post #20
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?212045-Best-value-quot-duty-grade-quot-LVPO/page2
I have a Hog VX-R and had a Patrol. Liked the Patrol reticle circle slightly better, but the non capped/non locking turrets were a no go. I would also assume the 2-7's larger objective would be a bonus in low light considering the 1.25-4x is pretty good at.
I really like the weight (11.5 oz) of the Leupold VX-R 1.25-4x20
I really like the weight (11.5 oz) of the Leupold VX-R 1.25-4x20
That is one of the major plusses of the VX-R line. I just would avoid the patrol unless you are anal about checking the turrets.
This thread got my curiosity up so I searched YouTube for 'Leupold Torture Test" and was pleasantly surprised.
That is one of the major plusses of the VX-R line. I just would avoid the patrol unless you are anal about checking the turrets.
This thread got my curiosity up so I searched YouTube for 'Leupold Torture Test" and was pleasantly surprised.
Outstanding! I ordered one this morning.
Outstanding! I ordered one this morning.
Hope you like! Which did you go with?
Hope you like! Which did you go with?
Leupold VX-R 1.25-4X20
Leupold VX-R 1.25-4X20Duplex reticle? What mount are you looking at?
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Duplex reticle? What mount are you looking at?
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Duplex Firedot and I've already got a Midwest Industries QD mount.
Duplex Firedot and I've already got a Midwest Industries QD mount.
Where’s the best price?
Where’s the best price?
Purchased mine from optics planet for $489 minus a discount code for a total of $465 with free shipping.
hmmm - at that price I'm torn between the P4XI and Vortex Razor...
Would like a Razor. May go for it eventually.
Have the VX-R Hog and the P4XI. Glass clarity and brightness are just about identical. Dot intensity is equal and bright.
VXR weight is a biggy over the P4XI.
VXR motion activation is a plus, although the Steiner may have a longer battery life. I do prefer the P4XI off stops between intensities and not having to cycle through all settings to get back again as with VXR single switch.
VXR magnification switch is short, smooth and has a bump that is easy to use. P4XI is a longer arc and needs added leverage to even come close.
The VXR 1.3 or 1.4? Low end is a major issue for some.
Both have very long eye relief. Have the VXR in an Aero SPR mount which just barely allows NTCH cheek weld. Due to the adjustment bell location on the P4XI I had to go with an ADM extended cantilever to get it as far forward as I wanted.
hmmm - at that price I'm torn between the P4XI and Vortex Razor...
I have a Razor that I'm more than happy with. I wanted a lighter weight optic though that performs well and is still durable enough for duty optic.
VXR / Mark AR from Leupold are decent optics, very lightweight typically but you never get close to 1x.
Sure it's usable but I think true 1x is very different from 1.25 or 1.5x.
In another thread I was asked for some pics of my Primary Arms 1-6 Gen3 w/ ACSS. This is the 5.56/.308/5.45x39 version.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/62e2d058743ddf44ba083d257f6b1838.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/798c4476bbe4a02f91c5e985937ba5f6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/d2e099349d235b45c350228206fb8e1d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/13dc6acdb16062fbbe318c7e7e0f8078.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/54d3effab81c9c237b9adfb7c146c263.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/c530dfe85aa7638942d9b118fb4f5c5d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/2c1c7711cacdb4d7b58fe88b133356c9.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/0dbd94ab3d7f1f2e736025437b2c80fc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/91eb06303ebd144af71f4979e3da3e03.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/13c39b3418e7b3d0cd3455449e3dc305.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/2660463ff1285393093684f24d9e9f36.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/6899f6245271763eab95fe563e1479ed.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/ad91548ec68bffa380a6b8fdb23d58b8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/e8f18c71ea9baf8e4f4e1e3e5e18a150.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/33c8da4840132b304fec7ebde89dc7b4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/dfae97d6bebe0530d70b48f658a6f584.jpg
Here's a few more.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/31d9132ff35cee909fc9965e5a96d93f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/8bc7639e866a4385066a2fb4f3778883.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/40618a6f4adc3b20624f3402485e0e1b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/9db1d4de072cff1b185a2d20ba2df262.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/a7ed28207c97cb52610aba557def841d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/79bd1b8ae9169a8be01ced2c87b4ff67.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190727/40e2f50e3a657bdeb9eb135985b9d55f.jpg
Adding another pic this was taken a few weeks ago have the scope set to max brightness. In person you could barely detect a hint of red. I think this was just before noon. Outside of these conditions the reticle is pretty bright.
Also if you happen to start getting g behind the scope but are not quite in the eyebox yet you would puck up the illumination as you settle into the right position.
If anyone cares to see that I could try to see if I could get a pic or video.
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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190829/8c6bfd9663b4ae3a98f908c68339630e.jpg
RobertTheTexan
07-27-19, 21:27
They are made in China, but i havent heard of very many issues at all with these. They have a lifetime warranty and PA service is awesome if you would need to use it.
That being said we are in a competitive market and there are some other good options that are more "duty grade' if you could spend up around $500. If i was buying a LPVO today i would be looking at
Steiner P4XI- This is a 1x4, but has german Schott glass, daylight bright reticle and very durable. DSG has sales on this and they can be found for around $475 if you look around
Burris XTR 2- Natchez has these on sale and they have a couple different options- Made in Phillipines i believe. Have a good glass and built like a tank
Primary Arms FFP Raptor- this is a FFP 1-6 that has a really good reticle and better glass than the standard gen 3 1-6
Burris RT6- good value pick for around $350- reports are great glass and good illumination
I know you posted this months ago, but I just wanted to comment on the XTR II. I’ve had three XTR II scopes. 5-25 FFP; 1.5-8 DFP (Dual Focal Plane) and 1-8 FFP. I have thoroughly enjoyed all 3 scopes, but my preference is the 1-8. Good damn grief that is a fine optic. It’s not for the panty waist shooter however, because along with the ruggedness it does carry some weight. I’ve never been one to complain about weight until I got my LMT MWS and it killed my support arm shoulder, however the 1-8 on my Noveske 14.5 or DD 12.5 is a dream. The glass is extremely clear, I really dig the reticle and the eye relief is tits up awesome. Pretty forgiving eye box as well.
However what led me here was Vandal posting pics of his PA 1-6 which I believe will be one of the next scopes I purchase. I only wish I had a decent comparison between the PA 1-6 and the Vortex PST Gen 2 1-6. I’m ok if the Vortex is better, it should be, I’m just curious how much better.... any intel on that? Also last question, is upgrading to the FFP on the PA worth is?
Oh and my really last last question. For those of you who have never use a BDC reticle, how long did it take you to become proficient with the ACSS? By proficient I mean snap shots at range and not having to hem and haw around figuring out what hash mark to sight on on. Thx!
Special thanks to Vandal for posting the pics up. You’re awesome.
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.
Also last question, is upgrading to the FFP on the PA worth is?
Oh and my really last last question. For those of you who have never use a BDC reticle, how long did it take you to become proficient with the ACSS? By proficient I mean snap shots at range and not having to hem and haw around figuring out what hash mark to sight on on. Thx!
Special thanks to Vandal for posting the pics up. You’re awesome.
Here is a thread that mentions the PA Raptor FFP.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?215362-Fixed-3x-scope-vs-red-dot-Continued&highlight=Focal
while I still haven't tried it, I have recently bought a PA 4-14 HUD DMR that is FFP. Haven't had a chance to play with it much, but the ACSS part isn't confusing/busy to look through.
The FFP part is not such a great idea imo. At 4x everything is tiny. Chevron turns in to a dot and I really don't see how the ranging features could be used at the low end in most conditions.
Here is a thread that mentions the PA Raptor FFP.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?215362-Fixed-3x-scope-vs-red-dot-Continued&highlight=Focal
while I still haven't tried it, I have recently bought a PA 4-14 HUD DMR that is FFP. Haven't had a chance to play with it much, but the ACSS part isn't confusing/busy to look through.
The FFP part is not such a great idea imo. At 4x everything is tiny. Chevron turns in to a dot and I really don't see how the ranging features could be used at the low end in most conditions.
Hey jsbhike,
I believe with a SFP reticle the elevation and windage are only correct at max zoom. I would think there would be times when you were not at 14x and still want to be able to use the reticle.
I had to give this some debate when choosing between the 1-6 and 1-8.
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Hey jsbhike,
I believe with a SFP reticle the elevation and windage are only correct at max zoom. I would think there would be times when you were not at 14x and still want to be able to use the reticle.
I had to give this some debate when choosing between the 1-6 and 1-8.
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That is my understanding also that range finding and hold overs only work on a specific magnification level on sfp, usually max.
The catch with ffp, in my opinion, is that everything on the reticle shrinks and the end result is everything is ultra fine.
Setting it on 4x reminds me of the fine crosshairs on an old weaver K2.5 I have. In good light/solid background all is well, but as either of those dwindle the reticle rapidly becomes difficult to impossible to see.
With the ACSS, on 4x the chevron looks like a dot most ofvthe time. Today was the first day with bright light I have played with it and I can make out that it is triangular, but the open chevron body appears solid. In low light it just looks like an out of round dot.
One other thing, it has been awhile since I have looked through an sfp acss and the chevron tip was much "pointier" than the 4-14 ffp. I have seen that mentioned in reviews and Dimitri mentioned it was more difficult to put the chevron in an ffp than sfp. Not crappy, just not as sharp at the tip.
RKB Armory
07-31-19, 08:37
One other thing, it has been awhile since I have looked through an sfp acss and the chevron tip was much "pointier" than the 4-14 ffp. I have seen that mentioned in reviews and Dimitri mentioned it was more difficult to put the chevron in an ffp than sfp. Not crappy, just not as sharp at the tip.
I agree with this.
bigd081285
08-01-19, 18:16
Absolutely love the pa 1-6 acss reticle best budget lpvo imo
I've had my Primary Arms 1-6 (https://reddotshooters.com/the-thrifty-primary-arms-1-6x-scope-the-best-ar-scope-under-300-dollars/) for about a year now, and I've been really happy with it. The acss reticle is awesome, and I think the brightness is adequate even during the day time. I just switched from one of my AR15s to my M&P 10, and I'm anxious to see how it performs with the .308.
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