PDA

View Full Version : Review: KynSHOT hydraulic recoil buffer RB5000



jetspeedz
03-25-17, 15:18
As part of my 2017 reviews, I'm going to discuss the KynSHOT hydraulic recoil buffer RB5000. I was especially interested in this buffer for a few reasons. Most AR15 operators who build their rifles or purchase an off the shelf completed rifle don't pay much attention to this component. It is hidden in the buffer tube and not much thought is given into it since the standard buffer is a simple looking component, which typically is not tampered or modified. If you have a standard Carbine buffer you may wonder why you have that "spring twang" sound. It is directly related to the carbine buffer and spring in the buffer tube. If you are looking for a way to reduce “felt recoil” and want faster follow up shots, keep reading.

Let us discuss the standard AR15 Carbine buffer for this particular review. The standard off the shelf carbine buffer is an aluminum turned 3.25" tube with a plastic tip filled with three steel weights roughly about 3oz. There are heavier Carbine buffers H, H2 and H3, which climb up in weight with a combination of tungsten and steel weights. A buffer is a critical component to a functioning AR15. As the AR15 cycles once the trigger is pulled, the buffer is pushed back by the bolt carrier group as gas in a direct impingement system is applied to the BCG. The buffer and BCG is carrying that “energy”(momentum) towards the shooter which is the “felt recoil” the operator feels and hears. Once the spring has fully compressed it naturally decompresses (recoils) and pushes the buffer and BGC forward towards the muzzle loading the next round and closing the bolt for another shot. There are different components in an AR15 platform which can be tuned to allow for a smooth operating firearm like an adjustable gas block, gas port size, tube length and so on. Similarly different springs and buffers are used to make sure an AR15 can cycle properly and reliably using different types of ammo loads, so naturally AR15 are normally aggressively over-gassed.
There is some Physics involved which is critical to understanding how a Hydraulic buffer works. Let’s explore Momentum and Kinetic Energy. Momentum is equal to mass times velocity (p=mv). Kinetic energy is what the operator perceives as "felt recoil", it is calculated as (K = 1/2 mv^2). Momentum is a vector quantity which has direction in space. Kinetic Energy is a scalar quantity and has no particular direction. If you inspect the formulas, momentum is directly proportional to mass or velocity changes while Kinetic Energy is proportional to the square of the velocity. If you double the velocity you quadruple the kinetic energy. Add to all this is conservation of momentum and conservation of energy laws. What does all this is mean in relation to the hydraulic buffer already?

First we will examine the word "Recoil", which is used very loosely with different implications relative to firearms. You might hear an operator refer to the recoil as energy. This is actually not correct, since recoil is a vector which has direction like momentum, and energy is not a vector, using the terms synonymously can be confusing and incorrect. What operators perceive as recoil in true definition is actually Momentum. It is directly related to the mass of the firearm times the reverse velocity of the ammo leaving the barrel. The heavier the mass of the firearm, the less acceleration will manifest itself as "felt recoil". Simply put, if you shoot a 5.56 round of tank designed with an AR15 barrel, you will not feel any "recoil". This can be observed by looking at Newtons second law of conservation of momentum (F= dp/dt).

The momentum on an AR15 is from the bullet and gasses leaving the barrel. The mechanisms moving inside the AR15 such as the BCG, spring and standard buffer do no change the nature of momentum regardless of the weight changes of these components. Using a heavier buffer or lighter buffer does not change the momentum based on the laws of Physics. So changing to a heavier buffer like H2 or H3 does not change the perceived recoil in theory. What it does change though is the time interval in which the momentum is transferred to the operator. Given the mass of the buffer is changed, and we know (Force = mass x acceleration), we can deduce how perceived recoil does not change total momentum the operator absorbs, but how it is absorbed is important and what the operator refers to as “recoil”. If you just understood the last statement, you will understand what I'm going to explain next. Since the duration of felt recoil has changed in relation to time, the heavier buffer will take longer for the operator to feel a 'softer recoil' because of the reduced acceleration over time, vs a lighter buffer which will have a more ‘stinging recoil' affect over a shorter time delta. Again the momentum and Kinetic energy is not changed, but manipulated in a manner where the timing and acting forces are perceived by the operator to be different. Finally, this is where the hydraulic buffer comes into play.

We discussed above the different carbine buffer weights available. If you change from a lighter buffer to a heavier buffer, you are simply changing the time interval over which momentum is transferred to the end of the stock. With a hydraulic buffer, what happens is the Kinetic energy is actually being transferred to a different type of energy in the form of thermal energy. It is important to understand the principles of energy conservation and energy changing forms. When you rub your hands together, Kinetic energy is transferred to heat as a result of friction between your hands and the energy is lost in the form of heat. The same concept works for a hydraulic buffer. The ‘recoil’ and momentum is actually reduced by the transfer of energy to thermal loss. Similar to a how a shock operates on a car or motorcycle there is a piston, orifice holes, seals, chamber and fluid more or less in the KynSHOT buffer. While I don't have the design details for good reasons because the KynSHOT is patented and the details of the design are proprietary, it is a safe bet to assume it operates similar to a regular shock. I contacted John who is a Director at KYNTEC, he provided me with some specific information and details about the operation of this buffer. This buffer is a single acting device working on the compression stroke only, unlike a car or motorcycle shock.
"As the recoil event begins, the bolt carrier group moves rearward and compresses the piston rod as the spent casing is ejected. As this happens, hydraulic fluid is orificed and at this interface kinetic energy (energy of mass in motion) is converted to thermal energy and dissipated through the cylinder of the buffer. This is exactly the advantage of the hydraulic buffer as it is compared to so many spring and tuned mass dampers on the market today. Hydraulics is the only way to take energy away from the system. Springs and tuned mass dampers just move energy around, store it in springs, and are not efficient. Once the buffer and bcg hit the back end of the buffer tube, the buffer spring takes over and pushes everything forward, causing the bcg to pick up the next round from the magazine and chamber it. This forward motion is also felt by the shooter. The energy of the buffer in motion is dampened when the buffer comes to a stop at the front retainer detent and the piston rod strokes again, dissipating more energy."

As you can see, John has confirmed the Physics behind what this type of buffer offers compared to a standard buffer. Full circle back to the reasons I was interested in this buffer is the KynSHOT buffer reduces felt recoil which is very appealing. It reduces muzzle raise which is critical for 3-Gun shooters and range shooters practicing quick target acquisition and rapid successive follow up shots. The buffer also eliminate the spring "twang" noise which is unpleasant, and significantly reduce wear and tear saving your AR15 as the moving parts are slowed down by the transfer of energy. The fact you can use this buffer to reduce ‘felt recoil” to a minimum, makes it an ideal product for introducing newcomers to the sport who might otherwise be concerned about recoil. I personally find anything which reduces the recoil or makes the firearm friendlier and easier to shoot as a welcome option in my toolbox. My wife who has shot my other AR15 rifles found this one to be her favorite and it does not surprise me.

The KynSHOT is made of high quality 17-4 stainless steel and the finish is really beautiful with a high gloss polish. The steel is designed to withstand corrosion and punishment of the elements. The hydraulic fluid used is proprietary, but John confirmed it is aircraft grade oil with good temperature stability and made to last. It is likely used within the Aerospace industry and variant of a Mil-Spec fluid. I inquired if there was any service needed to maintain the oil or seals. I was assured the buffer carries a 1 million cycle or 10 year guarantee. In addition, the buffer is not serviceable and requires zero maintenance. The buffer is not the lightest out there at 4.2oz, but the benefits of this buffer far outweigh the additional weight in this low weigh build. The buffer is manufactured right here in the USA. KynSHOT has a machine shop at their headquarters in Buffalo, NY where they produce most of the components, what they don't produce is produced by another manufacture close to their headquarters.

Installation of this buffer takes less than a few minutes, there is not much to it, take out the old buffer and just slide this in without any modification. First day at the range I went through about 500 rounds and I could tell after the first round after switching between the H2 buffer and this buffer recoil was reduced. All the rounds cycled perfectly, no malfunctions of any kind. I felt more in control standing and shooting, on target recovery was quick and I felt less fatigued. This buffer has been tested and proven by professional competitive shooters, military and law enforcement. With the guarantee offered and benefits this buffer provides there is no reason why every AR should not come with this device. I don't consider this a draw back because you get what you pay for, but the only deterrent for some people might be the price. Yes this is a premium product, but after hopefully understanding the physics and what benefits this buffer offers, it will be an easy choice for you to make. After my experience with this buffer, any future builds, I will be purchasing this buffer.


https://youtu.be/frPx3D-wMVI

http://i.imgur.com/LkpZLUB.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Eg4rSzO.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/re0fmsy.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/IjVWjkt.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/wZ5Eo0B.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/RlXj7jf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Jol7DNe.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/GICwwKJ.jpg

TomMcC
03-25-17, 16:21
Thanks for the write up. We're going to need a price. Price/benefit and all.

GH41
03-25-17, 17:37
I see a red door and want it painted black!

Todd.K
03-25-17, 19:40
Do you know what bolt bounce is?

Adrenaline_6
03-25-17, 21:26
Interesting...I would like to know some calcs on how much energy is actually being lost on heat. Is it significant enough to really be felt? If so, how much heat is being transferred to the buffer and how effective is this buffer at dissipating absorbed heat in the buffer tube?

Eurodriver
03-26-17, 08:12
This is excellent. I've always found the AR15 platform to be extremely firm in the recoil department. I'm glad people are working to such great lengths to solve this enormous problem.

6933
03-26-17, 08:24
Disappointed to see Lamb on this product.

Outlander Systems
03-26-17, 08:50
Does it work?

Comparison/Side-by-side vidz?

SiGfever
03-26-17, 09:07
44636

44637

Outlander Systems
03-26-17, 09:23
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/283/235/7e3.jpg


44636

44637

556BlackRifle
03-26-17, 09:26
Does it work?

Comparison/Side-by-side vidz?

Side by side with the A5 system.

Butch
03-26-17, 09:48
Does it work?

Comparison/Side-by-side vidz?

His wife thinks so. "My wife who has shot my other AR15 rifles found this one to be her favorite and it does not surprise me."


https://youtu.be/7cdQfuj8ljw

I never understood the recoil reducing gimmicks for the AR platform. There is no recoil. How do these 3-gun guys hit anything with their shotguns?

Butch
03-26-17, 11:09
Long video on buffers. Sound quality sucks. Talks about the hydraulic buffer at 22:17


https://youtu.be/8boc8aFgfT8?t=22m16s

Press Check
03-26-17, 11:13
If I'm not mistaken, weren't hydraulic buffers originally designed for the army to test in attempting to stabilize the cyclic rate of heavy machine guns, and reduce bolt-bounce? Not entirely sure I see the benefit in a semi-auto. In theory, if you dampen the initial impact of the BCG, doesn't that shorten the overall travel of the BCG, creating a condition in which short-stroking can occur? Seems like you would need to use a reduced power spring to allow full travel.

militarymoron
03-26-17, 11:27
How is this buffer different from the Enidine buffer that was introduced more than a dozen years ago and discontinued a few years ago? It looks exactly the same. By the way, the KynShot says 'patent pending' on it - it's not patented yet.
My concern with this design would be based on what happened to my original Enidine (see pic). I was sent a replacement which I've used since then with no issues, but I always have a spare H2 buffer in my bag 'just in case'.

Outlander Systems
03-26-17, 11:58
There was a great muzzle device comparison where dude tested MD's, and had metrics for everything.


Side by side with the A5 system.

556BlackRifle
03-26-17, 12:29
There was a great muzzle device comparison where dude tested MD's, and had metrics for everything.

I remember seeing that.

lysander
03-26-17, 14:08
...what happens is the Kinetic energy is actually being transferred to a different type of energy in the form of thermal energy. It is important to understand the principles of energy conservation and energy changing forms. When you rub your hands together, Kinetic energy is transferred to heat as a result of friction between your hands and the energy is lost in the form of heat. The same concept works for a hydraulic buffer. The ‘recoil’ and momentum is actually reduced by the transfer of energy to thermal loss. Similar to a how a shock operates on a car or motorcycle there is a piston, orifice holes, seals, chamber and fluid more or less in the KynSHOT buffer. While I don't have the design details for good reasons because the KynSHOT is patented and the details of the design are proprietary, it is a safe bet to assume it operates similar to a regular shock. I contacted John who is a Director at KYNTEC, he provided me with some specific information and details about the operation of this buffer. This buffer is a single acting device working on the compression stroke only, unlike a car or motorcycle shock.
"As the recoil event begins, the bolt carrier group moves rearward and compresses the piston rod as the spent casing is ejected. As this happens, hydraulic fluid is orificed and at this interface kinetic energy (energy of mass in motion) is converted to thermal energy and dissipated through the cylinder of the buffer. This is exactly the advantage of the hydraulic buffer as it is compared to so many spring and tuned mass dampers on the market today. Hydraulics is the only way to take energy away from the system. Springs and tuned mass dampers just move energy around, store it in springs, and are not efficient. Once the buffer and bcg hit the back end of the buffer tube, the buffer spring takes over and pushes everything forward, causing the bcg to pick up the next round from the magazine and chamber it. This forward motion is also felt by the shooter. The energy of the buffer in motion is dampened when the buffer comes to a stop at the front retainer detent and the piston rod strokes again, dissipating more energy."

As you can see, John has confirmed the Physics behind what this type of buffer offers compared to a standard buffer. Full circle back to the reasons I was interested in this buffer is the KynSHOT buffer reduces felt recoil which is very appealing. It reduces muzzle raise which is critical for 3-Gun shooters and range shooters practicing quick target acquisition and rapid successive follow up shots. The buffer also eliminate the spring "twang" noise which is unpleasant, and significantly reduce wear and tear saving your AR15 as the moving parts are slowed down by the transfer of energy. The fact you can use this buffer to reduce ‘felt recoil” to a minimum, makes it an ideal product for introducing newcomers to the sport who might otherwise be concerned about recoil. I personally find anything which reduces the recoil or makes the firearm friendlier and easier to shoot as a welcome option in my toolbox. My wife who has shot my other AR15 rifles found this one to be her favorite and it does not surprise me.
1) There are other ways to remove energy from a system, mechanical friction dampers being another simpler and cheaper method.

2) The equation for the energy absorbed is:

E = ∫Fdx from 0 to x = total stroke.

Where Fdx is the resistive force generated by the damper (buffer) as a function of distance. Or, simply the area under the F-x curve. It gets complicated as the resistive force is going to be a function of velocity, or how fast you try and push the plunger in. Generally it's not a huge amount, but it is a little. M60s have had hydraulic buffers for years, I never felt one of those even get noticeably warm.

The major benefits of a hydraulic buffer for recoil is the increased length of time the recoil energy is applied to the shooter, reducing the "felt recoil". A long push, as opposed to a sharp blow.

The biggest improvement about this design is that it will slow the cyclic rate down a huge amount, so even if you are severely over gassed, you will not have the usual feeding issues associated with over gassing, you still might have the extraction issues, but not the feeding issues.

jetspeedz
03-26-17, 15:26
To answer some of the questions:

Price varies depending on model so here is the website link: http://kynshot.com/eshop/

There is a 1 million cycle or 10 year guarantee with the KynShot. Comparing decade old colt or enidine buffer to this is futile.

Hard to capture "felt recoil" in a video, which is why the physics and explanation of how this product works, makes more sense.


Cheers

militarymoron
03-26-17, 17:33
To answer some of the questions:
There is a 1 million cycle or 10 year guarantee with the KynShot. Comparing decade old colt or enidine buffer to this is futile.

I don't think it's futile - I think it's reasonable based on the fact that they look identical in design externally. Unless information is made available to the contrary, it's logical to assume that failure modes would be similar.

Is the guarantee against failure (guaranteed that it will not fail within 1 mil cycles or 10 years), or REPLACEMENT is guaranteed within 1 mil cycles or 10 years?
Enidine replaced my failed buffer without any hassles, but it still failed.

When you review a product that looks EXACTLY like one that was released more than a decade ago, you must expect folks to ask how they differ and why this one is better. I'm not surprised by their similarity, given that the VP of Engineering at KynShot (Jerry Spyche) worked at ITT Enidine until 2012. So, a little history behind the KynShot buffer and its heritage and design differences (for those of us who had experience with the Enidine) would be relevant (and IMHO, necessary) for your review.

Another thing I'd like to point out is that if it's 'patent pending', it's not patented yet. If a patent application has been filed, anyone should be able to look at the 'proprietary design' if they were interested in understanding how it works.

Butch
03-26-17, 17:54
To answer some of the questions:

Price varies depending on model so here is the website link: http://kynshot.com/eshop/

There is a 1 million cycle or 10 year guarantee with the KynShot. Comparing decade old colt or enidine buffer to this is futile.

Hard to capture "felt recoil" in a video, which is why the physics and explanation of how this product works, makes more sense.


Cheers

You took it beyond "felt recoil": "...and want faster follow up shots"..."spring twang"..."reduces muzzle raise"..."range shooters practicing quick target acquisition and rapid successive follow up shots"..." significantly reduce wear and tear saving your AR15 as the moving parts are slowed down by the transfer of energy"..." but the benefits of this buffer far outweigh the additional weight in this low weigh build".


...and benefits this buffer provides there is no reason why every AR should not come with this device. Tens of thousands of AR's in use firing millions of rounds to include burst and full auto without this miracle device. You have also not addressed bolt bounce and how this buffer counteracts that. Having the bolt stay locked is more important than "spring twang".


This buffer has been tested and proven by professional competitive shooters, military and law enforcement Who?


... and I felt less fatigued


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/firing-ar-15-horrifying-dangerous-loud-article-1.2673201

Adrenaline_6
03-26-17, 18:48
The "dissipating energy in the form of heat" is what I question. The review mentions this as the difference between the other methods which just use time as the primary varying factor. If it is going to make a difference, it better be absorbing a bunch of heat, and if so, how much? If it is a bunch, how does it dissipate said heat. If it doesn't get hot, then it isn't absorbing much energy in the form of heat to make a perceived difference and is primarily using time like the A5 and the new AD buffer.

Nothing wrong with doing that, but saying it is doing something else is not cool.

lysander
03-26-17, 18:59
Interesting that the Enidine buffer should be brought up. A legal battle was waged between 2014-2016 over Enidine's Patent Number 7,131,367, claims by Kyntec (makers of the KynSHOT RB5000) that Enidine's patent was invalid, and counter claims that the KynSHOT infringed on Enidine's patent.

Someone versed in legalese might be able to tell what went on:

Kyntec Corporation v. ITT Enidine, Inc. et al.,, No. 1:2014cv00271 - Document 81 (W.D.N.Y. 2016)

Kyntech holds at least one patent on a "Shock absorber with variable damping profile" which appears to be a minor variation on the internal valving mechanism.

Koshinn
03-26-17, 19:49
https://youtu.be/7cdQfuj8ljw

This is a parody video, right?

BufordTJustice
03-26-17, 21:09
Interesting that the Enidine buffer should be brought up. A legal battle was waged between 2014-2016 over Enidine's Patent Number 7,131,367, claims by Kyntec (makers of the KynSHOT RB5000) that Enidine's patent was invalid, and counter claims that the KynSHOT infringed on Enidine's patent.

Someone versed in legalese might be able to tell what went on:

Kyntec Corporation v. ITT Enidine, Inc. et al.,, No. 1:2014cv00271 - Document 81 (W.D.N.Y. 2016)

Kyntech holds at least one patent on a "Shock absorber with variable damping profile" which appears to be a minor variation on the internal valving mechanism.
Lysander, thank you for researching this.

I think this is the pertinent issue that needs to be addressed regarding this product.

I cannot necessarily blame them for not wanting to owe patent royalties to a competitor entity, in the case that the designs are substantially similar.... Or for wanting to draw an important potential distinction between their current design and the original Enidine.

However, clarification is mandatory. I know two buds who had failures with Enidine carbine buffers..... Both had the seals fail and fluid leak out.

Jmacken37
03-27-17, 00:43
Kyle Lamb tends to have his stuff together...

FlyingChipmunk
03-27-17, 23:38
Kyle Lamb tends to have his stuff together...

That's what surprised me about Kynshot. There have been hydraulic buffers, but never one endorsed by a highly reputed instructor.

TomMcC
03-28-17, 02:24
$140 golden dinards.....that's a lot of dinards for a buffer.

Stickman
03-28-17, 02:27
I don't think it's futile - I think it's reasonable based on the fact that they look identical in design externally. Unless information is made available to the contrary, it's logical to assume that failure modes would be similar.

Is the guarantee against failure (guaranteed that it will not fail within 1 mil cycles or 10 years), or REPLACEMENT is guaranteed within 1 mil cycles or 10 years?
Enidine replaced my failed buffer without any hassles, but it still failed.

When you review a product that looks EXACTLY like one that was released more than a decade ago, you must expect folks to ask how they differ and why this one is better. I'm not surprised by their similarity, given that the VP of Engineering at KynShot (Jerry Spyche) worked at ITT Enidine until 2012. So, a little history behind the KynShot buffer and its heritage and design differences (for those of us who had experience with the Enidine) would be relevant (and IMHO, necessary) for your review.

Another thing I'd like to point out is that if it's 'patent pending', it's not patented yet. If a patent application has been filed, anyone should be able to look at the 'proprietary design' if they were interested in understanding how it works.

I think this is worth reading twice.

lysander
03-28-17, 10:53
The "dissipating energy in the form of heat" is what I question. The review mentions this as the difference between the other methods which just use time as the primary varying factor. If it is going to make a difference, it better be absorbing a bunch of heat, and if so, how much? If it is a bunch, how does it dissipate said heat. If it doesn't get hot, then it isn't absorbing much energy in the form of heat to make a perceived difference and is primarily using time like the A5 and the new AD buffer.

Nothing wrong with doing that, but saying it is doing something else is not cool.
From a straight engineering point of view, yes, hydraulic dampers do absorb energy from the system they are damping in the form of heat. It is exactly like your shock absorbers on your car.

I am not going to go into a long explanation of how a shock absorber works, you can look that up a dozen places. I will state that when the oil is forced through the orifices between the two chambers, there is friction between the fluid and the walls of the orifice, and both are heated to a measurable degree. Typical car shocks with a four inch stroke will see a temperature increase of about 1.5 degrees C in one thousands cycles.

Depending on the viscosity of the working fluid, the size of the orifices, you might get a similar temperature rise in this little buffer. But, all said and done, that isn’t an appreciable amount of energy removed from the system.

By the way, the temperature of the plastic tip on a regular buffer also increases due to the effects of being deformed and relaxing over and over; it is probably a lot less that the temperature rise of the hydraulic fluid, but it is there. So, to say that a regular buffer does not remove energy from the system is technically incorrect.

Adrenaline_6
03-28-17, 11:59
From a straight engineering point of view, yes, hydraulic dampers do absorb energy from the system they are damping in the form of heat. It is exactly like your shock absorbers on your car.

I am not going to go into a long explanation of how a shock absorber works, you can look that up a dozen places. I will state that when the oil is forced through the orifices between the two chambers, there is friction between the fluid and the walls of the orifice, and both are heated to a measurable degree. Typical car shocks with a four inch stroke will see a temperature increase of about 1.5 degrees C in one thousands cycles.

Depending on the viscosity of the working fluid, the size of the orifices, you might get a similar temperature rise in this little buffer. But, all said and done, that isn’t an appreciable amount of energy removed from the system.

By the way, the temperature of the plastic tip on a regular buffer also increases due to the effects of being deformed and relaxing over and over; it is probably a lot less that the temperature rise of the hydraulic fluid, but it is there. So, to say that a regular buffer does not remove energy from the system is technically incorrect.

I am in total agreement with you. That being said, if the heat energy being absorbed isn't all that much, it shouldn't be marketed that way. It is primarily using the same principle of time to lessen felt recoil, it just is using a different medium to do so.

Spin Drift
03-28-17, 12:22
This is excellent. I've always found the AR15 platform to be extremely firm in the recoil department. I'm glad people are working to such great lengths to solve this enormous problem.



This is about as far as I read.


Another football bat.

tehpwnag3
03-28-17, 13:55
Seems like an expensive solution to a problem I don't have.

Outlander Systems
03-28-17, 14:22
Recalibrate Sarcasmo-9000, brosef.


This is about as far as I read.


Another football bat.

jetspeedz
03-29-17, 19:49
militarymoron: Fair point, I would contact Kynshot about the details of the policy, but from my understanding the return policy is very simple and they stand behind their product. I was told it is patented, so it could very well be while these are stamped with "patent pending" and are old stock, the patent process is now complete. However I can not confirm this, but if you would like I would be more than happy to contact Kynshot for you about this to clarify.

Butch: There is no bolt bounce problem from my experience using this product. If you would like to know which LE/SWAT Depts or DoD customers or Competitive shooters are using these feel free to contact Kynshot, I'm sure they will be more than happy to share with you. Kyle Lamb's endorsement of this product says a lot in itself.

lysander: Correct very similar to a car shock, the major difference is it works on the compression stroke only.

Cheers

lysander
03-30-17, 06:46
For those interested:

Recoil Shock Absorber for Long Barrel Firearms, patent application #20160273873, Kyntec Corporation, inventors: Gerald J. Spyche, Jr., Thomas J. Miller (http://www.google.com/patents/US20160273873)

militarymoron
03-30-17, 07:47
For those interested:

Recoil Shock Absorber for Long Barrel Firearms, patent application #20160273873, Kyntec Corporation, inventors: Gerald J. Spyche, Jr., Thomas J. Miller (http://www.google.com/patents/US20160273873)

I saw that, but I think it's for a non-reciprocating shock absorber; not an AR-15 buffer.

jetspeedz
03-30-17, 20:00
Got some feedback from Kynshot on some of the questions:

"Our warranty policy is very lenient. It is pretty much a no questions asked 1 million round or 10 year guarantee. Most guys will never fire 1 million rounds through their AR-15 for two reasons. Cost of ammunition and the a million cycles would translate to about 50 barrel changes..."



I accept blame for the "patented" comment in the review, there was a breakdown in communication between myself and Kynshot so this is the status right now:

"The product design is patent pending at this point in time. We are just waiting for the patent office to complete the process, have already been assured that our new design is indeed patentable, and it is just a matter of time."



I didn't really want to share this part of my conversation with the forum but I believe it is warranted:

"There are also professional reviews in American Rifleman and California Shooters Journal that endorse the products. I saw some of the negative text from the forum readers. The one that really caught my attention was negativity about Kyle Lamb. Unbelievable! I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion but there are huge masses of people in our industry that have unprecedented respect for him. I guess some negativity is always going to be present in the forums. I have never heard such negativity about our products in all my days selling it. I guess that is the risk when you place reviews in forums."

I understand not all products are for everyone, but there is a lot of negativity in this forum in particular. Makes me really question about posting further reviews here. There are civil ways to have a discussion if you disagree with a product. However, bashing something you have never tried is bold. Just my .02

lysander
03-30-17, 20:49
I saw that, but I think it's for a non-reciprocating shock absorber; not an AR-15 buffer.

It is the only patent pending for Kyntec . . .

militarymoron
03-30-17, 21:23
I understand not all products are for everyone, but there is a lot of negativity in this forum in particular. Makes me really question about posting further reviews here. There are civil ways to have a discussion if you disagree with a product. However, bashing something you have never tried is bold. Just my .02

Thanks for the update and information. I think you'll always find some skepticism on any forum you go to; and how folks react is also dependent on how the review is presented, who the person is, or how long person has been a member here. It's no different than walking into a room full of enthusiasts who have been around each other for a long time. After a while, they get to know each other, who knows what he's talking about, and who's full of b.s. When someone who hasn't been a member for long starts expressing an opinion on a product, the only way the community here can 'feel them out' is to ask questions. There's a great breadth of knowledge and experience here, which makes this such a good technical forum, and not everyone will always agree on everything. Yes, we can sometimes be a bit ornery. I do hope you stick around and get the lay of the land. It's obvious that you want to contribute to the knowledge base here, and that should always be a welcome thing.

Yes, I agree to a certain point that you shouldn't bash something you've never tried, but let's be honest - there are some products you just don't want to try and will rule out right away; based on past experience. In the case of the KynSHOT, it just happens to be a product that looks exactly like another one that people have tried; hence the questions about its design heritage. If it looked markedly different, the thread might have taken a different tone as it would be a brand new product to all of us. Personally, I like trying any recoil-reducing product that looks like it works and is designed well.

If anyone shows disrespect for industry professionals like Kyle Lamb here, please report the post and the mods will deal with it.