View Full Version : Short Barrel: What would you do?
I'm looking into making an SBS to go along with my SBR. So... for a home defense/SHTF kinda fun gun, would you go for an 870 or an 1100 with 14" barrel?
I'd love a M4 Benelli, but they are too spendy for now. So.. for a lower cost, high quality SBS, I was leaning towards an 870 or possibly an 1100. I'm a southpaw so the 1100 might not be as fun for me as an 870, although maybe it wouldn't bother me having the shells fly past my nose... the 870 is fine (right handed one) and so is the AR.
Thoughts?
SBS is a waste in my opinion. It's a fairly cheap NFA item. So if you do go for it, you're not out a lot of cash. But I never even shoot or get my SBS out of the locker.
SBS is a waste in my opinion. It's a fairly cheap NFA item. So if you do go for it, you're not out a lot of cash. But I never even shoot or get my SBS out of the locker.
I just think it would be a fun (to shoot) low cost addition to the arsenal. In an HD situation, a SBS might perform better and safer than a 5.56 too.
We'll see.. maybe I'll forget it and buy more AR recievers and Magazines before Obama takes away our guns! LOL
I'm looking into making an SBS to go along with my SBR. So... for a home defense/SHTF kinda fun gun, would you go for an 870 or an 1100 with 14" barrel?
I'd love a M4 Benelli, but they are too spendy for now. So.. for a lower cost, high quality SBS, I was leaning towards an 870 or possibly an 1100. I'm a southpaw so the 1100 might not be as fun for me as an 870, although maybe it wouldn't bother me having the shells fly past my nose... the 870 is fine (right handed one) and so is the AR.
Thoughts?
There are a bunch of factory Remington 870 Police Magnum 14" guns out there right now, the "U.S. Secret Service" model. No idea if it was an overrun or canceled contract or what, but they're about $500-$600 and come with a decent set of ghost right sights, Wilson Combat 1 round extension, and Speedfeed stock.
Keep in mind that a 14" 870 is about the same length overall as a 16" AR carbine, so it's not as compact as a SBR. Still a useful and fun gun, though.
There are a bunch of factory Remington 870 Police Magnum 14" guns out there right now, the "U.S. Secret Service" model. No idea if it was an overrun or canceled contract or what, but they're about $500-$600 and come with a decent set of ghost right sights, Wilson Combat 1 round extension, and Speedfeed stock.
Keep in mind that a 14" 870 is about the same length overall as a 16" AR carbine, so it's not as compact as a SBR. Still a useful and fun gun, though.
If I bought a factory one, wouldn't I have to pay to $200 to transfer it to my Class III Plus pay another $200 to transfer to me or can the seller send it to another class III with no fee?? I dont think thats the case... so it would cost around $1,000 vs. just putting a BBL on a $300 870 and paying the $200
In an HD situation, a SBS might perform better and safer than a 5.56 too.
A shotgun (short barreled or otherwise) will do almost nothing better than the 5.56 carbine in the home defense role. If you select a shotgun round that's "safe" for wall penetration or whatever... you're also selecting a round that won't penetrate vitals and guarantee threat stop.
If you just take a simple pros/cons of shotgun, you'll see that the shotgun falls short of the 5.56 in:
Capacity
Recoil
Flash
Penetration
Modularity/accessories (lights)
Shotgun isn't the worst weapon to choose, but there's no way it's a better choice than the carbine.
That said, if you like blasting with the shotgun, go for it.
If I bought a factory one, wouldn't I have to pay to $200 to transfer it to my Class III Plus pay another $200 to transfer to me or can the seller send it to another class III with no fee?? I dont think thats the case... so it would cost around $1,000 vs. just putting a BBL on a $300 870 and paying the $200
No. Buy it from an FFL/SOT who will transfer it tax free on a Form 3 to your local FFL/SOT, then you pay one $200 tax on your Form 4.
You're paying one $200 tax no matter how you do it. Also, if you can get an 870P for $300, please let me know where.
Also, if you can get an 870P for $300, please let me know where.
I didn't mean a NEW 870 and I'm not sure I said a "P" model either. But I see wingmasters in good shape "often" at the local gun shows.
A shotgun (short barreled or otherwise) will do almost nothing better than the 5.56 carbine in the home defense role. If you select a shotgun round that's "safe" for wall penetration or whatever... you're also selecting a round that won't penetrate vitals and guarantee threat stop.
If you just take a simple pros/cons of shotgun, you'll see that the shotgun falls short of the 5.56 in:
Capacity
Recoil
Flash
Penetration
Modularity/accessories (lights)
Shotgun isn't the worst weapon to choose, but there's no way it's a better choice than the carbine.
That said, if you like blasting with the shotgun, go for it.
After reading this... I think you are probably right... well for sure you are on many points.. maybe all points!! Plus... the 12ga ammo is getting pretty spendy these days too. Maybe I'll just buy more 556 ammo and more toys for my SBR!! :-)
geezerbutler
09-26-08, 01:09
After reading this... I think you are probably right... well for sure you are on many points.. maybe all points!! Plus... the 12ga ammo is getting pretty spendy these days too. Maybe I'll just buy more 556 ammo and more toys for my SBR!! :-)
No...definitely get a SBS. :D ......Just becuase you can, and your arsenal desires the addition.
You might also consider a Benelli M2 SBS. I saw one in person recently NIB cheaper than a NIB NON SBS Benelli M2.
It was $869 whereas the non SBS was $969. Yeah with the stamp it's more, but to most of us it's not the total out the door price that's the deciding factor.
Plus if you already have 1 or 2 SBR's, you can almost get 2 SBS's for the price of 1 Colt 6933.
The Remmy 870 SBS USSS is a good choice too. It has tritium ghost ring inserts and I was told it actually has a factory modified? choke which is unusual for an SBS.
Cheapest I've seen an instock 870 USSS of late is $699.
Also from what an SOT relayed to me, Remington will not sell a SBS (supposedly) to any non governent entity. SO that makes a "new" factory Remington SBS a pretty worthwhile addition if you're into boomsticks.
The only thing that contradicts this is the new SBS MCS system that goes for over $2k that I have seen on several sites on the net. But these could always be agency backouts which allows them, like these 870's, to end up in the hands of individuals.
I found out the scoop on the 870 USSS last week (a bit late to the game I might add). An ffl/sot in TN bough a little over 300 of them aftter Remington made them for a follow up order that never panned out form the Secret Cervix.
The TN FFL then sold them to a good many TN LE agencies as well as individuals and other ffl/sot's.
I didn't mean a NEW 870 and I'm not sure I said a "P" model either. But I see wingmasters in good shape "often" at the local gun shows.
I raised that point only because you were comparing the pricing of the factory 870P SBS.
A used Wingmaster (which has the same, or most of the same, features as the Police model in terms of parts and build quality) is a good platform, certainly. Keep in mind that you'll need to get it engraved if you do it yourself via a Form 1.
Dan Goodwin
09-26-08, 07:15
Be advised Remington 870P Tactical (14-in.) models have been made with Modified choke barrels for quite some time now.
They pattern as tight or tighter than 18-in. Improved barrels on our patrol shotguns.
For home defense, is there any substantive difference in the amount of ear-damaging noise produced by an SBR 5.56 v. SBS 12 ga.?
I know my 6933 sounds louder than my 870P Tactical.
SBSes aren't as cutting edge as SBR 5.56es, but they've been dropping bad guys for two centuries or more in America.
Ouch! A short 5.56 will definitely be a loud Muther... even outdoors. There's no question about it.
Still.. the pros far outweigh the cons when going with a carbine over a shotgun for home defense.
geezerbutler
09-26-08, 09:31
Be advised Remington 870P Tactical (14-in.) models have been made with Modified choke barrels for quite some time now.
They pattern as tight or tighter than 18-in. Improved barrels on our patrol shotguns.
Now the dealer that originally got these 870's did convey to me the tight grouping out of the 14 inch barrel because of the choke.
Sweet.
The 870P 14" with the mod choke does very well with the Federal LE133 (8 pellet OO buck flite control) load. I can also make one large hole at 25 yards with Brenneke slugs using the ghost rings that come with the USSS model.
It's a very good gun for what it is. Very different from a SBR though.
canucklehead
09-26-08, 13:01
Build something like this:
Rem. 870P Magnum with 14" Mod choke
Wilson Combat sights
Wilson +1 Extension
Vang Comp oversized safety
TacStar sidesaddle
Blonde police wood
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e95/canuckleheaddave/IMG_1136.jpg
Total cost for me was less than $400 CDN. :p Of course, we don' t need a $200 tax stamp for barrels less than 16". It's my home defender...
Dan Goodwin
09-26-08, 14:38
That is cute as a speckled pup. What sort of finish do you have on the wood?
I've got a set of Tru-Oiled police wood cut to 13-in. LOP by Ted Yost that I've been saving for my personal 870 when I actually send in the check and paperwork to SBS it.
I may go ahead and put it on my issued 14-in. after seeing yours. Like the way the 1-shot extension makes it look v. standard, too.
I've been told YES and NO on SBS's too many times here for MN.... so, I just got off the phone with NFA Branch of ATF and they say NO.... fug!!!!
I want one!
Ok... I'm going to just get another SBR or maybe more stuff/changes for my current SBR then.... Dang!
Thanks for all the posts guys... I wish I could join ya!
canucklehead
09-26-08, 17:53
That is cute as a speckled pup. What sort of finish do you have on the wood?
I actually have no idea - I think the previous owner stripped and sanded some police wood and just used a wax of some sort. I keep it looking good with Johnsons Paste Wax.
I get positive comments on my wood all the time. :D
citizensoldier16
09-27-08, 00:09
A shotgun (short barreled or otherwise) will do almost nothing better than the 5.56 carbine in the home defense role. If you select a shotgun round that's "safe" for wall penetration or whatever... you're also selecting a round that won't penetrate vitals and guarantee threat stop.
If you just take a simple pros/cons of shotgun, you'll see that the shotgun falls short of the 5.56 in:
Capacity
Recoil
Flash
Penetration
Modularity/accessories (lights)
Shotgun isn't the worst weapon to choose, but there's no way it's a better choice than the carbine.
That said, if you like blasting with the shotgun, go for it.
With all due respect to Demigod, I tend to disagree. Here's why:
1) Light birdshot will do plenty of damage at close range, and you don't risk shooting through the intruder, the wall behind him, and into your neighbor's house.
2) The sound of a shotgun's action is unmistakable, not to mention scary as s*** if you're lurking in somebody else's dark house at night with ill intent. It alone may be enough to deter the threat, or bring him into submission.
3) There are adequate lighting options, such as Surefire.
4) Unless the local terrorists are attacking your living room, 5 shots should be enough...if you need to shoot at all.
5) A pump-action shotgun can be operated easily by untrained family members should the need arise. In addition, it does not need to be "aimed", but rather "pointed" toward the threat.
I keep both a 12ga shotgun as well as a 5.56 in my home for defense, but my go-to gun is the shotgun, hands down.
twodollarbill
09-27-08, 11:31
pump-action shotgun ....... it does not need to be "aimed", but rather "pointed" toward the threat.
I keep both a 12ga shotgun as well as a 5.56 in my home for defense, but my go-to gun is the shotgun, hands down.
Well said, but that is why WE do more range time with Carbines and Handguns, right??.
I get positive comments on my wood all the time. :D
It looks similar to mine. I'll have to get a pic uploaded. I do love the classic look of the wood furnature. It gives it that old Sheriff's Office look.
We have started to build some SBS’ for work and after a lot of T&N here is what the deep thinkers settled on…. They were all assembled on standard Remington 870 Police guns with a parkerized finish…
Remington factory 14 inch barrel with rifle (night) sights and a mod choke
Surefire fore-end tac light
Scattergun (Wilson) “fixed” front swivel
Scattergun (Wilson) jumbo safety
Generic six shot side saddle from Brownells
Speed-feed pistol grip stock, youth length (13inch LOP with no internal magazine, and install uncle mikes 1 1/4" swivel on top at the 12 o’clock position)
Vickers Blue Force tac-sling
They work great in and around obstacles and houses, or during vehicle assaults…
B
parker7777
09-28-08, 16:29
What dealers have the 14in REM 870 in stock?
geezerbutler
09-28-08, 16:38
BUCK, or anyone else, can a choke be added to a factory Remmy 14" 870 Barrel that came with imp. cylinder choke?
BUCK, or anyone else, can a choke be added to a factory Remmy 14" 870 Barrel that came with imp. cylinder choke?
Well you have a few options if you have a fixed choke Remington 870 barrel and you want a larger choke… What ever you do, I would call around and find a professional shop local to you who works on quality bird guns and have them do the work…
1) Have the IC choke opened up to CYL…
2) Have the factory barrel threaded for the Remchoke system and buy a complete set of chokes ( FULL, MOD, IC, CYL, and RFL) for your gun…
B
P.S. Don’t shoot 3” magnum slugs through the FULL remchoke… :eek:
Just a note to all....
Please stay on topic... If you wish to discuss the merits or negatives of using birdshot as a home defense load please do so in a new topic…
B
HolyRoller
09-30-08, 18:34
Threads get detracked all the time at M4C. There are better ways to deal with it than arbitrarily destroying work that I put time and thought into. I can't remember seeing this happen much before, if ever. Is poofing now the default solution? If so, a warning would be appreciated so I can at least save my work.
Robb Jensen
09-30-08, 21:35
Threads get detracked all the time at M4C. There are better ways to deal with it than arbitrarily destroying work that I put time and thought into. I can't remember seeing this happen much before, if ever. Is poofing now the default solution? If so, a warning would be appreciated so I can at least save my work.
If your work is important to you perhaps you should save it on your own computer before posting.....
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