View Full Version : Most versatile type of saw?
I know next to nothing about tools but I need some type of powered saw to rebuild my target frames. Lowes usually cuts the would for me but the kid there the other day said they weren't supposed to for some reason. Nothing big, I just need to make several cuts on 2x2s and 1x3s and don't really feel like doing it all by hand so I want something that I'll be able to use in whatever future applications I may find for it. I'm thinking a reciprocating saw? I have a vice mounted on a workbench but that's just for my G reaction block. I already have some black and decker things which have been fine, to include 20 and 40 volt batteries so I was thinking of sticking to something that uses one of those. Any help would be appreciated, I thought craftsmen made decent stuff but had terrible luck with 2-3 of their drills.
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The first wood cutting tool you need to buy a basic circular saw. Most would refer to it as a Skill saw but Skill is a brand. I have no idea if B&D makes a battery powered one. I am not a fan of cordless anything other than drills. B&D would be one of the last tools I would buy.
Circular saw, then jigsaw, then reciprocal saw and then table saw.
You want corded, not cordless. Table saw is most precise but heavy and cumbersome to use unless you have it set up in a dedicated shop area. Circular saw is next most precise but also heavy, then jigsaw and then reciprocal saw.
Craftsman is mostly discontinued and not what it once was. I've had really good luck with Dewalt, prices on Amazon are better than at Home Depot.
SomeOtherGuy
04-08-17, 16:51
Tough call. M249, which can take belts or magazines? Or Stoner's Ultimax 100? :)
Anyway... A handheld circular saw is very versatile. However, a bench mounted miter saw would be fastest, easiest and safest for cutting dimensional lumber to length. The miter saw is my favorite.
Jigsaw and recip. saw are useful for specific tasks, not all purposes.
Table saw is a useful tool but can be VERY dangerous if you make small mistakes. Not for casual use.
I have had great luck with Dewalt. Black & Decker and Craftsman are both clown brands now, not serious, kind of like the DPMS Sportical of tools.
Ok circular saw it is. What other brands are worth considering besides Dewalt? I was underwhelmed with the power of the B&D 20v drill I have. But my grandfather was an engineer for them decades ago and my family still owns stock in the company so when some of the stuff has good reviews on Amazon and I have nothing else to go off of, I figured why not. Oh and I'll either buy it on Amazon or at Ace Hardware because they just mailed some decent coupons. Neither Home Depot nor Lowes are worth going towards Honolulu... I may use it once a year, if that so I'm not going to spend over $200 unless it comes with a lot of other tools. But so far most of the power tools I've bought haven't been worth the money, even my mower is jacked up right now.
ETA - by underwhelmed, I mean that I couldn't drive a screw through 4" of wood. Maybe that's normal for a cordless drill, I don't know. But I thought it should be able to do that. It was just some cheap stuff from Lowes, I wouldn't think it'd be that dense.
ETA2 - and you guys would recommend a normal circular saw over a compact like the Rockwell 4.5"?
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Travelingchild
04-08-17, 17:38
Ok circular saw it is.
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Just to complicate your choices ,Modern cordless are 18volt or 20 are fine for casual home owner use, Fine Home Building usually run reviews.
Corded if your planning on serious use it'll last longer than you. Skill is owned By Bosch or vice versa.
Now Do you want a sidewinder or a worm drive? Dewalt had their own version not sure if they still make it.
Sidewinder blade is on the right, weight of motor on the keeper piece spins faster lighter-hard to see cut line- favored by those east of Mississippi.
Worm Drive longer heavier, geared, in oil bath motor behind blade easier to see as motor in line with blade favored by serious framers west of Mississippi
ramairthree
04-08-17, 17:46
As has been mentioned, black and decker, craftsman, etc. have taken a dive in the past 20 years.
I usually tell people to get a cordless set, like dewalt, that has a sawzall, drill, and circular saw in it.
It can go to the range or the back forty, on the ate, in the garage, etc.
Ok circular saw it is. What other brands are worth considering besides Dewalt? I was underwhelmed with the power of the B&D 20v drill I have. But my grandfather was an engineer for them decades ago and my family still owns stock in the company so when some of the stuff has good reviews on Amazon and I have nothing else to go off of, I figured why not. Oh and I'll either buy it on Amazon or at Ace Hardware because they just mailed some decent coupons. Neither Home Depot nor Lowes are worth going towards Honolulu... I may use it once a year, if that so I'm not going to spend over $200 unless it comes with a lot of other tools. But so far most of the power tools I've bought haven't been worth the money, even my mower is jacked up right now.
ETA - by underwhelmed, I mean that I couldn't drive a screw through 4" of wood. Maybe that's normal for a cordless drill, I don't know. But I thought it should be able to do that. It was just some cheap stuff from Lowes, I wouldn't think it'd be that dense.
ETA2 - and you guys would recommend a normal circular saw over a compact like the Rockwell 4.5"?
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Black & Decker used to be serious, but hasn't been in decades.
Right now there are two brands, Dewalt and Makita. Don't waste time driving, order it from Amazon with free shipping.
https://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW364K-4-Inch-Circular-Electric/dp/B00002231Z/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1491692232&sr=8-2&keywords=dewalt+circular+saw+corded
https://www.amazon.com/Makita-5007MG-Magnesium-4-Inch-Circular/dp/B000N5SVEY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1491692334&sr=8-1&keywords=makita+circular+saw+corded
Personally I'm partial to Dewalt over Makita but never had any real problems with Makita.
Ok circular saw it is. What other brands are worth considering besides Dewalt? I was underwhelmed with the power of the B&D 20v drill I have. But my grandfather was an engineer for them decades ago and my family still owns stock in the company so when some of the stuff has good reviews on Amazon and I have nothing else to go off of, I figured why not. Oh and I'll either buy it on Amazon or at Ace Hardware because they just mailed some decent coupons. Neither Home Depot nor Lowes are worth going towards Honolulu... I may use it once a year, if that so I'm not going to spend over $200 unless it comes with a lot of other tools. But so far most of the power tools I've bought haven't been worth the money, even my mower is jacked up right now.
ETA - by underwhelmed, I mean that I couldn't drive a screw through 4" of wood. Maybe that's normal for a cordless drill, I don't know. But I thought it should be able to do that. It was just some cheap stuff from Lowes, I wouldn't think it'd be that dense.
ETA2 - and you guys would recommend a normal circular saw over a compact like the Rockwell 4.5"?
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Just remember when you are cutting wood with a circular saw, to cut in a way that won't allow the blade to bind, best way is to hold or anchor one end down and leave the other end hanging in the air, for example if you were going to cut 20 inches off and 8 foot 2X4, you would want to place the 2X4 on the bench leaving slightly more than 20 inches hanging off the edge, make your cut and the 20 inch piece falls to the ground. Do not try to cut the board with both ends supported and the middle hanging in the air, the wood will pinch the blade and the saw will kick back on you, I've seen a lot of inexperienced guys do this.
if you are just cutting 2x2 and 1x3 for basic frames depending on how many ? good hand saw can do fast work of that to and way cheaper just get a miter box and a couple clamps
a chop saw/ miter saw is also super fast super accurate for repeat cuts at any angles and such and would be my tool of choice to build target frames most likely
a small table saw :) you can do so much with them and setting up accurate repeat cuts is super easy etc..
including making wood joints and so on
if you get a circular saw using a speed square is really handy for straight cuts by hand when you are newer to cutting :)
youtube will show you what I mean just something like using a speedsquare with circular
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-08-17, 21:17
Easy, Milwaukee Fuel 18V Circular Saw. A sliding bevel miter saw or table saw next would be my choice. I use my Sawzall very little for work around the house, and my Jigsaw only for very small intricate cuts.
Right now there are two brands, Dewalt and Makita. Don't waste time driving, order it from Amazon with free shipping.
Wut? There's several brands out there and every one of them, including the two you listed, is behind Milwaukee.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-08-17, 21:24
Wut? There's several brands out there and every one of them, including the two you listed, is behind Milwaukee.
Makita has made leaps and bounds lately, especially with their brushless impacts. BUT, IMO nobody is beating Milwaukee at the Home Depot/Lowes (contractor) price point. Of course, we can argue Festool etc but Milwaukee is and always has been my red drug of choice.
Cordless stuff, Milwaukee, dewalt, makita (pro grade, not home grade), and hilti all make great stuff. Power is not an issue. I think my Milwaukee 18v drill would sprain my wrist if it bottomed out by suprised. Thing has balls.
Black and decker, craftsman, and even porter cables stuff has been slacking based on feedback I get.
I'd get a corded miter saw first, then go cordless circular and sawzall. Get a hammer drill of same type while youre at it so you can swap batteries. Sounds like you need to upgrade.
I personally like Milwaukee stuff. But we have a dewalt at work we beat the shit out of and it's been good.
My maintenance guys say all that stuff is a joke and hilti is where it's at. They killed every drill they had in months, but we've had the hills for 4-5 years now and going strong.
That said they are the first I've heard nay-say Milwaukee or dewalt so, grain of salt.
OP - no offense, but from your first post, I'd be concerned recommending a circular (skill) saw. As someone mentioned, blade kick back and binding are all too common if you do no know what you are doing.
If I'm around the house I always try to use the compound miter saw or the table saw before I use a circular saw. In terms of safety the miter is the most forgiving IMO.
I would also go with corded saws.
I'm not a finish or framing carpenter by any means, but I do spend one day a week working for a non-profit housing renovation organization so I get a little time in using saws.
The other day I fell in love with this bad boy: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-15-Amp-7-1-4-in-Worm-Drive-Circular-Saw-6477-20/100628958 the ergonomics of it are awesome for a circular saw if you have to have one.
For those that don't know, Dewalt is the result when the B&D professional line didn't sell. B&D just changed the name. It's a good product. You can't beat the 60v cordless circular they make now. However, for the OP's stated use, a miter saw is best choice. There are a number of good choices, just make sure you get a 12" and not a 10". You don't need a slider.
Dewalt, Rigid, Hitachi, Bosch are all solid.
For those for whom this matters, a lot of Milwaukee is made in China... just sayin'.
I can say that Hilti is the shit where power tools are concerned. But the price point is high. Unless you're a pro, it's over the top.
Full disclosure, I have a few Hilti products. (Recip saw, hammer drill, cordless drill)
OP - no offense, but from your first post, I'd be concerned recommending a circular (skill) saw. As someone mentioned, blade kick back and binding are all too common if you do no know what you are doing.
If I'm around the house I always try to use the compound miter saw or the table saw before I use a circular saw. In terms of safety the miter is the most forgiving IMO.
I would also go with corded saws.
I'm not a finish or framing carpenter by any means, but I do spend one day a week working for a non-profit housing renovation organization so I get a little time in using saws.
The other day I fell in love with this bad boy: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-15-Amp-7-1-4-in-Worm-Drive-Circular-Saw-6477-20/100628958 the ergonomics of it are awesome for a circular saw if you have to have one.
Problem with worm drives is the weight
Product Weight (lb.) :14.3
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SomeOtherGuy
04-08-17, 23:15
Ok circular saw it is.***
ETA2 - and you guys would recommend a normal circular saw over a compact like the Rockwell 4.5"?
7.25" is the most common size and is versatile. The little 4.5" is useful for some things but not ideal for your stated uses or entry-level. Blades wear out (and sometimes break) and you want to be able to buy replacements locally at good prices.
If you are mostly cutting dimensional lumber (2x4s, etc.) a miter saw is MUCH safer, easier and faster, and won't cost much more at the basic end. But it won't work to rip a 4x8 panel in half.
Also as Honu said, a hand saw can actually be efficient for doing a few cuts. No need for safety gear or as much set-up. The "Japanese saw" sold in the US (which is derived from actual Japanese saws, but not truly the same) is very efficient for this sort of thing, and you can get a reasonably good one for $20-30. IMHO these are much more pleasant to use than traditional US carpenter saws that you may remember. Traditional US saws cut on the push stroke and are a PITA, Japanese saws cut on the pull stroke so they don't jump and skip as much.
Whatever you do, please don't get a table saw (or the less common radial arm saw) without some training. Material kickback is no joke and can seriously injure you. Cutting off your fingers isn't good either, and happens to some very experienced and safety-conscious people. (There is a "Sawstop" brand that provides a huge safety benefit, but at much higher cost, FYI.)
For those that don't know, Dewalt is the result when the B&D professional line didn't sell. B&D just changed the name. It's a good product. You can't beat the 60v cordless circular they make now. However, for the OP's stated use, a miter saw is best choice. There are a number of good choices, just make sure you get a 12" and not a 10". You don't need a slider.
Dewalt, Rigid, Hitachi, Bosch are all solid.
For those for whom this matters, a lot of Milwaukee is made in China... just sayin'.
I'd say that a 10" compound slider on a stand would handle most everything the OP would do. And for as much as he will be using it, I'd even say that a Ryobi would be OK. My FIL just did a full finished 3+1 basement and it's still kick in'. I'd spend the savings on clamps and maybe a Workmate if they still make a decent one.
Throw in a 18 or 20v LiOn drill+driver set. I love my Makita 18v set. Done a couple of remodels with it, and I'll take the lighter weight over longer batteries.
But don't use your saw for metal cutoff. The sparks and slag will do a number on the clear blade cover, top plate, and your dust collection bag (I mean, that's what I heard can happen anyway).
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daddyusmaximus
04-08-17, 23:31
Battery tools get a bad rap. They are the wrong choice if you are going to work a tool hard all day long every day, but for the typical homeowner, I think they're great. Just get a good one. I have both DeWalt and Bosch, but prefer the DeWalt. I don't like circular saws at all, but that's just me. I'd love a worm drive one though. I think it would be different if I could see the cut. I love my table saw and miter saw, but the table saw gets little use.
Most of the cutting I need is simple , something is too long... walk over to the miter saw (corded, on a bench) and zip... it's the right size. Love that thing. (12" DeWalt)
The battery tools that get tons of use too, because they can go anywhere. I've even been looking at getting the 40V DeWalt chainsaw. Now if I used wood heat, and needed LOTS of wood cut, big gas saw, but for most people, (me) battery tools are great. Most of my tool use is in short spurts anyway, as I'm too cripple to work for hrs on end.
Also, you can charge your battery bank for the home with solar, then charge your battery powered tools from that... no gas or grid connection needed.
A few years ago I did a masonry project that needed a handheld circular with diamond blade. I bought a cheap Ryobi from home Depot for about 50 bucks. I didn't want something nice, as the masonry dust is abrasive and would likely harm even the best saw. Since then I've built a shed and done more with the Ryobi without any problems.
I'd avoid battery power in your case because batteries are expensive and have a limited lifespan. And manufacturers love to change battery styles every so often. A corded circular saw with light homeowner type use will last a lifetime. You can't say that about battery powered anything.
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if you get a circular saw using a speed square is really handy for straight cuts by hand when you are newer to cutting :)
youtube will show you what I mean just something like using a speedsquare with circular
I actually cheat. Most guards on the outside are 1.5" (same thickness as a 2x4) so I use a 2x4 to draw my line then lay it on it's side and screw it to the scrap board if there is enough room. Then I just use the 2x4 as a guide to run my saw against.
Wut? There's several brands out there and every one of them, including the two you listed, is behind Milwaukee.
Been a long time since I used Milwaukee and wasn't sure of current quality.
Averageman
04-09-17, 16:05
There's something to be said for older Black and Decker and Craftsman circular saws, I've got one of each, the newest being 25 years old, the older maybe 50 years old, both are still rocking anything I need to be doing.
Honestly, if I was at an estate sale and "saw" one I wouldn't hesitate. The current batch may be crap, but they were the tits for decades.
Buying new I would go with Milwaukee.
Outlander Systems
04-09-17, 16:17
Chicago Power Tools FTMFW.
Screw all that Gucci Milwaukee/Dewalt/Makita nonsense.
http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_23133.jpg
You asked for "most versatile".. nothing beats a good quality (Dewalt in my case) cordless 20V reciprocating saw for versatility You can cut wood, plastic, steel and bone with it. I use mine to hack up non-quality critical pieces like target frames all the time. Switch the blade and you can cut off that stripped bolt or a chunk of rebar, another blade switch and you can cut off small trees, change the blade again and you can use it to cut leg bones and ribs on a moose. No other saw has the versatilityof a recip saw. Not precise in any way, but nothing beats it when it comes to chopping shit up. Hell, when I was a firefighter doing vehicle rescue it was the most used tool we used... cut out front windows, roof removals, clear out road side brush... it could do it all.
This forum is chock full o' knowledge and experience, but I think we are over-engineering this answer.
Wake27, for what you need, light duty lumber, straight cuts once in a while, one of these is all you need:
http://i67.tinypic.com/292n3md.jpg
http://i63.tinypic.com/20h20t2.jpg
Simple, relatively safe, very easy to use, cheap, durable, will give a guy without a lot of skill or experience a straight cut every time, etc…
I bought one of the Ryobi ones at Home Depot for about $60 more than 10 years ago and I've cut 100's of 2x4s, 4x4s, 2x3s, 2x2s, 1x2s, closet dowel, tree branches (not recommended…), etc… and the thing still works perfectly. In fact, I use mine to make new target stands for my range several times a year. Are there "better" models with more features? Yes. Lot of them. You don't need those for chopping straight cuts on some 1x3s a few times per year.
Get a 10" bladed model. Measure, mark it, and chop. Done.
Happy shooting. Enjoy your new target stands.
Chicago Power Tools FTMFW.
Screw all that Gucci Milwaukee/Dewalt/Makita nonsense.
I really wanted to be the one to drop the Harbor Freight FTW post. For very limited use the HF stuff works. Have one of their 1/2" electric impact wrenches that was invaluable in breaking loose the 55mm rear wheel nut on a Ducati 1199. That bitch was on there.
I will echo the advice on the table saw. Be careful with it and give it a lot of respect. I had a piece of wood flooring I was cutting kickback on me and it scared the F out of me. Made me go a bit slower after that.
The miter saw is very handy, but kind of cumbersome. If you just need to quickly make cuts for a small project its a little much. I've used that Ryobi one, it blows compared to the DeWalt. If you do get a miter, take the time to set it up right with a square so all you're angles are correct.
I do know about kickback, its not that I've never used an electric saw, I just don't know which are best for what purposes. I did ask for versatile, because right now I only have one use and it is limited at that so something that can be used quickly and easily in a variety of functions is what I'm after. I don't build stuff and at least for now, I can't see any other use for a miter saw besides target frames which may become irrelevant to me after one use. I figured with a reciprocating saw I could at least cut up tree branches or other random stuff if the need arose. Plus the miter saws are large and need to be mounted to a bench, and they're generally more expensive so I really don't see that being right for my needs. I'm shooting at these things so I really don't care how nice the cut is.
Problem with worm drives is the weight
Product Weight (lb.) :14.3
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Yes, it is heavier. I worked with a guy who had one the other day and used it quite a bit. It was absolutely great. I need one.
But don't use your saw for metal cutoff. The sparks and slag will do a number on the clear blade cover, top plate, and your dust collection bag (I mean, that's what I heard can happen anyway).
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Dang, good chop saws are relatively cheap and fun.
This forum is chock full o' knowledge and experience, but I think we are over-engineering this answer.
Wake27, for what you need, light duty lumber, straight cuts once in a while, one of these is all you need:
http://i67.tinypic.com/292n3md.jpg
http://i63.tinypic.com/20h20t2.jpg
Simple, relatively safe, very easy to use, cheap, durable, will give a guy without a lot of skill or experience a straight cut every time, etc…
I bought one of the Ryobi ones at Home Depot for about $60 more than 10 years ago and I've cut 100's of 2x4s, 4x4s, 2x3s, 2x2s, 1x2s, closet dowel, tree branches (not recommended…), etc… and the thing still works perfectly. In fact, I use mine to make new target stands for my range several times a year. Are there "better" models with more features? Yes. Lot of them. You don't need those for chopping straight cuts on some 1x3s a few times per year.
Get a 10" bladed model. Measure, mark it, and chop. Done.
Happy shooting. Enjoy your new target stands.
While I agree that a miter saw is the best tool for Wake's current needs, he's asking for the best "versatile" saw. Something he can use for other tasks too.
In his case, a good circular saw or even perhaps a Sawzall would be a good fit for him. Neither would be my tool of choice for building target stands but if a person is only going to have one saw, both of those would be a good choice.
Plus the miter saws are large and need to be mounted to a bench, and they're generally more expensive so I really don't see that being right for my needs. I'm shooting at these things so I really don't care how nice the cut is.
To each his own, but I wanted to point out that miter saws do not have to be mounted to a bench or anything else. Mine lives on a storage shelf and I pull it out and set it on a table or bench when I use it. I have all of the types of saws mentioned in this thread and all stored in the same place. When I have one quick cut to make, or when I'm building several target stands, I pull out the chop saw. I could just as easily pull out any other one, but the chop saw is easiest and quickest.
I wish you good luck in your quest.
To each his own, but I wanted to point out that miter saws do not have to be mounted to a bench or anything else. Mine lives on a storage shelf and I pull it out and set it on a table or bench when I use it. I have all of the types of saws mentioned in this thread and all stored in the same place. When I have one quick cut to make, or when I'm building several target stands, I pull out the chop saw. I could just as easily pull out any other one, but the chop saw is easiest and quickest.
I wish you good luck in your quest.
I'm the same way. I have a plethora of tools to choose from (I think I have 3 different Dewalt reciprocating saws alone) & more often than not if I've got a quick cut or two to make I grab the chop saw. It's nice that I can make quick 90's or within seconds I'm cutting angles.
For all you "tool aficionados" out there, there's a difference between a chop saw & a miter saw. Among other things, one only cuts 90°s, the other can cut angles.
Since we bust people's balls about referring to mags as clips, we might as well stay consistent across the board. [emoji6]
For all you "tool aficionados" out there, there's a difference between a chop saw & a miter saw. Among other things, one only cuts 90°s, the other can cut angles.
Since we bust people's balls about referring to mags as clips, we might as well stay consistent across the board. [emoji6]
While mine is a compound mitre saw I predominantly use it to make chop cuts. Think of it as a chop saw with options.
For all you "tool aficionados" out there, there's a difference between a chop saw & a miter saw. Among other things, one only cuts 90°s, the other can cut angles.
Since we bust people's balls about referring to mags as clips, we might as well stay consistent across the board. [emoji6]
Generally, the folks I associate with equate a 'chop saw' to a saw with a metal cutting blade, generally as you noted, w/o mitre adjustments. (Not going to bust your balls about not using the correct old English spelling as the purists do.) :D)
Back to op, miter saw or sawzall depending on what you may do.
If you might want to remodel, get a corded miter saw. I've useen mine for molding and even tile with new blade. New target stand pieces, give me 20 seconds and you got perfect cuts.
Sawzall is a quick and dirty tear it up tool.
Actually, just get a miter saw. I run mine off the floor since it's like 2 cuts every couple weeks. Takes up room on the bench.
@OP if your drill won;t drill into a 4" have you checked to be sure the clutch is not set to light. Does it 'chatter' when it gets as far as it goes? Or does the motor just run down? If the motor runs down to a stop that's not normal for any battery drill I have ever used.
I have a Hitachi drill and it has been flawless. Before that I had a Dewalt but wrung out the drive train.
Old B&D stuff is really good. I have a router and a circular saw that my father and his crew used in commercial construction and then I acquired it and have used them for damn near everything for a 30+ years. So you could probably find something at thrift shop... although maybe not in Hawaii.
At any rate... I have recently bought several Ryobi battery operated pieces and they all work really well. They are nail guns though and I don't do heavy use with them. I can't imagine anything around the house that I wouldn't try to build with them for weekend projects. I also picked up the hand vacuum and that is really nice to have around. Oh, and the small impact driver. Ryobi is HomeDepot house brand... I forget who makes it. It's supposedly someone's economy level product. It's the ONE+ system. The always have a sale. So I've worked it where I have several batteries and a couple chargers. So when Im not using them they get used as vacuums or whatever. In fact I want the small circular saw next just to cut small 1x stock.
So if you are going to buy a corded 7.25" circular saw, I would get a good one. Otherwise for the weekend occasional projects I would look at the Ryobi line because they make so many pieces that run on the same system and it's durable enough.
If you are looking for a serious table top saw I really like my Bosch compound miter saw, but that gets kinda pricey. For a circular saw though you probably can't go wrong with a real SkILSAW. or Milwaukee. I think the high end Dewalt stuff is supposed to be good too. Bosch is probably a good choice.
Here's the ONE+ Ryobi stuff.. maybe you see a couple things you might could use... I don;t think I would trust the things like a chain saw but basic little projects that stuff works fine. I've put siding on my house, framed windows, made acoustic panels, built a desk, just your basic stuff... it works fine. https://www.ryobitools.com/power-tools/products/list/family/one-plus
Sawzall is a quick and dirty tear it up tool.
@OP, that is something you may not realize... generally speaking when someone grabs a sawsall, it's because they are getting ready to tear some s**t up. It's the goto tool along with a sledge hammer and crow bar for 'prep work'.
Also if you just want to keep things simple and compact. A nice corded sabre saw can do a lot of work. I have a Bosch in that. You can cut curves, metal, wood. Clamp down guide and you can cut some very nice straight cuts for as long as you want. In fact if I could only have one saw and was restricting to 2" stock I would get a good corded saber saw. My Bosch is very smooth and you can eyeball some very straight cuts it runs so smooth. Unlike a low end B&D that vibrated like a jack hammer. They call them Jig saws btw when you search..
Here is one.. newer than mine but similar. https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/boschtools-ocs/jig-saws-js572el-36046-p/
You can get lots of attachments for those kinds of saws too. If you go to about 2:15 in this video you can see him with what I think is a Bosch and he has a Collins adapter on it to cope out crown molding. You can see there is no bounce, just nice smooth controllable cutting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmFsawZwPF8
Here's a better Bosch video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNs6Bi9gF14
with one of these you could blow through those stands in no time.. http://thumb7.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/1003721/212330905/stock-photo-metal-square-carpenter-triangle-212330905.jpg
I swear, I think I would just do that. Get a really good jigsaw and watch some videos on Youtube. There is a ton of stuff you can do with one. You could build a jig with it for your stands so you just drop the wood in a saw through it. Ever piece exactly the same after you set it up. You ever need to cut a curve... boom, you got it covered. That video is not an exaggeration... that's really how smooth that saw is.
@OP,, I just read back over a few posts and specifically about kickback. I have never had a problem with my very old B&D circular saw and kickback because the motor has a very good brake. IOW, when you let go of the trigger it stops. I have used other people's newer saws and was stunned to find the blades don't stop turning when you release the trigger. If that is normal for new cheap saws I would avoid them at all costs. You want that blade to stop.
Also a sawsall and trees = Not fun. BTDT. Took down a 30' Bradford pear with one. Did I say it was not fun?
If you want the most versatile saw aside from the lumberjack work it is hands down the jigsaw. No other single saw can do what it does and your criteria is completely in it's wheelhouse with regard to lumber thickness. Lightweight, safe, straight, curves, angle cuts, portable, various materials, precise, fast. It's just hands down the most versatile choice.
To each his own, but I wanted to point out that miter saws do not have to be mounted to a bench or anything else. Mine lives on a storage shelf and I pull it out and set it on a table or bench when I use it. I have all of the types of saws mentioned in this thread and all stored in the same place. When I have one quick cut to make, or when I'm building several target stands, I pull out the chop saw. I could just as easily pull out any other one, but the chop saw is easiest and quickest.
I wish you good luck in your quest.
Indeed, many years my miter saw was in the box on the shelf until I needed it. When I was ready and needed a stand (for portability) I purchased one. Miter saws are super sweet even without a stand. A circular saw is what I purchased first.
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For all you "tool aficionados" out there, there's a difference between a chop saw & a miter saw. Among other things, one only cuts 90°s, the other can cut angles.
Since we bust people's balls about referring to mags as clips, we might as well stay consistent across the board. [emoji6]
+1
Miter saws are for wood while chop saws are used for metal.
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Dang, good chop saws are relatively cheap and fun.
I sure was surprised to look up from cutting square metal tubing to see my dust collection bag on fire. Funny thing is, I had just put it on to arrest the shower of sparks flying out of my saw. Felt like a f-ing noob.
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Moose-Knuckle
04-10-17, 04:59
Most versatile saw?
I don't know but the cutting wheels on my Dremel can do just about anything anywhere.
Same for a good reciprocating saw, I've got the DeWalt 20V Max Compact on my short list.
I can't even remember the last time I used my corded Skill brand circular saw.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-10-17, 09:56
So much differing advice in this thread, and none of it is wrong. Most "versatile" is very subjective. I cringe when I see a recip saw being labeled as "versatile". My Milwaukee Fuel Sawzall is great, but there is no way I'm grabbing it to cut lumber for projects. It's a tool I use for demo, for cutting roots, for cutting large branches, etc. If I needed to cut 2x4's, my sawzall wouldn't even be on my mind as it's a two handed tool and I can't keep a hand on the lumber.
Most versatile? Gosh, a circular saw will do so much for you. A compound sliding miter is honestly the best tool for chopping most project lumber, however it is not versatile as it can't easily move around the jobsite.
If you have the money, a recip saw is awesome to have. As far as versatility goes, it is really more of a niche tool for gross cutting of things that don't need to be pretty. Have I used it for fine work? Sure, I've notched 4x4 posts with it when building decks or benches, but only if I have to...and it's not easy to make a nice cut. Could you make nice cuts on a 2x4 with it? Sure, as long as the lumber is clamped down and you know what you are doing. Would a circular saw be much faster and easier? Oh yes.
My vote (noting my obvious Milwaukee bias):
http://www.cpomilwaukee.com/milwaukee-48-59-1890pc-m18-18v-9-0-ah-redlithium-high-demand-lithium-ion-starter-kit-with-free-m18-fuel-7-1-4-in-circular-saw/miln48-59-1890pc,default,pd.html?ref=pla&zmam=31282435&zmas=47&zmac=731&zmap=miln48-59-1890pc&gclid=CjwKEAjw2qzHBRChloWxgoXDpyASJAB01Io0b3KodcKHAJR-KreaIVaSshzQCzfGpejnoaXHTuLHRBoCCAnw_wcB
There has been a lot of talk about reciprocating saws on this thread. They are commonly called sawzalls or demo saws for a reason. Unless you are building stuff that ends up looking like this:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/30/06/db/3006db303017bf110f642d0ce9bddce1.jpg
they probably shouldn't be considered a 'go-to' saw.
ETA: LSHD had the same thoughts, expressed more eloquently.
My vote (noting my obvious Milwaukee bias):
http://www.cpomilwaukee.com/milwaukee-48-59-1890pc-m18-18v-9-0-ah-redlithium-high-demand-lithium-ion-starter-kit-with-free-m18-fuel-7-1-4-in-circular-saw/miln48-59-1890pc,default,pd.html?ref=pla&zmam=31282435&zmas=47&zmac=731&zmap=miln48-59-1890pc&gclid=CjwKEAjw2qzHBRChloWxgoXDpyASJAB01Io0b3KodcKHAJR-KreaIVaSshzQCzfGpejnoaXHTuLHRBoCCAnw_wcB
I'm not much for battery operated tools beyond drivers, drills and impacts.
This thought crossed my mind - why can't someone make dual-powered 110v-Battery operated tools, such as saws. Just reconfigure a charging unit so it plugs into the battery receptacle. Seems to me you'd make a fortune just building the units and seeling them to guys in my boat - I have two B & D battery operated drills laying in a corner because it was more cost effective to buy a new one than it was to refresh batteries.
@OP ... here's a good site with very straight forward opinions and facts on various saws.
http://www.thesawguy.com/jigsaw-vs-circular-saw/
I have two B & D battery operated drills laying in a corner because it was more cost effective to buy a new one than it was to refresh batteries.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5k0ljHLF58 there are other methods. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FORZQtnNz8
Moose-Knuckle
04-11-17, 02:56
The only circular saw I've used the last couple of years is my old B&D 18v cordless.
Unless I'm framing a house I don't need to break out a miter saw or anything with a cord, YMMV.
I've seen guys that could perform surgery with a Stihl, talk about versatility.
A buddy of mine had this on his FB the other day lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK8YxEaDl9U
horseman234
04-11-17, 08:10
So much differing advice in this thread, and none of it is wrong. Most "versatile" is very subjective. I cringe when I see a recip saw being labeled as "versatile". My Milwaukee Fuel Sawzall is great, but there is no way I'm grabbing it to cut lumber for projects. It's a tool I use for demo, for cutting roots, for cutting large branches, etc. If I needed to cut 2x4's, my sawzall wouldn't even be on my mind as it's a two handed tool and I can't keep a hand on the lumber.
Most versatile? Gosh, a circular saw will do so much for you. A compound sliding miter is honestly the best tool for chopping most project lumber, however it is not versatile as it can't easily move around the jobsite.
If you have the money, a recip saw is awesome to have. As far as versatility goes, it is really more of a niche tool for gross cutting of things that don't need to be pretty. Have I used it for fine work? Sure, I've notched 4x4 posts with it when building decks or benches, but only if I have to...and it's not easy to make a nice cut. Could you make nice cuts on a 2x4 with it? Sure, as long as the lumber is clamped down and you know what you are doing. Would a circular saw be much faster and easier? Oh yes.
My vote (noting my obvious Milwaukee bias):
http://www.cpomilwaukee.com/milwaukee-48-59-1890pc-m18-18v-9-0-ah-redlithium-high-demand-lithium-ion-starter-kit-with-free-m18-fuel-7-1-4-in-circular-saw/miln48-59-1890pc,default,pd.html?ref=pla&zmam=31282435&zmas=47&zmac=731&zmap=miln48-59-1890pc&gclid=CjwKEAjw2qzHBRChloWxgoXDpyASJAB01Io0b3KodcKHAJR-KreaIVaSshzQCzfGpejnoaXHTuLHRBoCCAnw_wcB
That's a really good deal on a great saw. Unfortunately, I'm almost as bad about acquiring tools as I am firearms, and have multiple saws. This one is the most convenient to grab for making quick cuts, can be very accurate if care is taken by the user, and would be a great choice for building target stands.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-11-17, 13:02
That's a really good deal on a great saw. Unfortunately, I'm almost as bad about acquiring tools as I am firearms, and have multiple saws. This one is the most convenient to grab for making quick cuts, can be very accurate if care is taken by the user, and would be a great choice for building target stands.
I am the same as you, which is why I still haven't picked up a cordless circular. My corded Milwaukee circular saw is a BEAST and handles everything without having to change batteries.
Did somebody say Milwaukee?
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/20170411_094822-01_zpsf3gcrz7h.jpeg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/20170411_094822-01_zpsf3gcrz7h.jpeg.html)
I looked into making those 20 years ago for my first cordless. Did some market research, and while there would be some takers, nothing that would sustain the massive amount of this/that/the-other brand adapters. These days though, with the cordless kits, especially circular saws, it might be a better bet.
As for Milwaukee's Sawzalls, just know that there are three different stroke lengths (snicker). 3/4, 1 1/8, and 1 1/4 inch. Don't get the short one - you'll just be pissed about how much longer everything takes.
As far as brand quality...Hilti, Milwaukee, and Dewalt in that order.
Hilti is expensive, and a professional tool.
For circular saws, Milwaukee is hard to beat. Also, as others have said, a recip saw is a demo tool.
I buy thousands of dollars of these brands per year, and have no reservations recommending any of them.
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I am the same as you, which is why I still haven't picked up a cordless circular. My corded Milwaukee circular saw is a BEAST and handles everything without having to change batteries.
Did somebody say Milwaukee?
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/20170411_094822-01_zpsf3gcrz7h.jpeg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/20170411_094822-01_zpsf3gcrz7h.jpeg.html)
I like Milwaukee too. ;)
Forgive me if this has been said, I skipped the last 6 pages.
A battery operated circular saw. Most important here is picking a brand and battery size you will use in other future tools like a drill or sander or impact gun. I have all of these, being able to swap battery tool to tool is magic.
A Japanese hand pull saw is the most fertile and best hand saw I have ever used.
With these two saws there is very very little I can't do.
Averageman
04-14-17, 08:22
I've got a large project going on at the house right now and I needed to cut 6x12 retaining wall brick.
Special purpose blade in the 20+ year old B&D saw, I cut a couple dozen in a row.
Probably not the best test for such a saw, but I was very impressed.
A miter saw can be used for masonry also. Get the right blade, keep the material wet and go slow, and wear a mask. Very versatle
Moose-Knuckle
04-15-17, 03:40
A Japanese hand pull saw is the most fertile and best hand saw I have ever used.
Is their a particular brand name and blade length?
I have a Milwaukee battery-powered circular saw. It's amazing. I recently used it to trim several 4x8 sheets of 3/4 inch plywood. If you're looking for portable, that's the one I'd recommend. If you're looking for a basic power saw only to cut 2x2 target bucks, pick up a cheap power saw from Harbor Freight.
Is their a particular brand name and blade length?
I think they are generally used for detail/trim work.
http://www.irwin.com/tools/browse/handsaws/pull-saws
I have this one: http://www.irwin.com/tools/handsaws/dovetaildetail-saw it is the only one I've used, primarily for clean up.
I have a laminate saw that I use as a pull saw - you make straighter cuts pulling rather that pushing. It takes me a while to get the routine down, I'm a klutz.
Here's some more:
http://www.tajimatool.com/products/saws/
Moose-Knuckle
04-16-17, 04:31
I think they are generally used for detail/trim work.
http://www.irwin.com/tools/browse/handsaws/pull-saws
I have this one: http://www.irwin.com/tools/handsaws/dovetaildetail-saw it is the only one I've used, primarily for clean up.
I have a laminate saw that I use as a pull saw - you make straighter cuts pulling rather that pushing. It takes me a while to get the routine down, I'm a klutz.
Here's some more:
http://www.tajimatool.com/products/saws/
Thanks for the links, still interested if there is a Japanese specific one mentioned previously.
If I ever find the time and money, I'd love to take up wood working with no power tools just traditional implements.
If I could, I'd bottle the scent of fresh cut lumber and wear at as a cologne!
If I could, I'd bottle the scent of fresh cut lumber and wear at as a cologne!
My son still talks about going into the Toiyabe National Forest and cutting a Christmas tree when we lived in Nevada. He describes it in minute detail including the smell. I find this cute and amusing since he was two at the time. The scent of fresh cut spruce is memorable, though.
I'd buy a bottle.
SomeOtherGuy
04-16-17, 15:27
Thanks for the links, still interested if there is a Japanese specific one mentioned previously.
This or something nearly identical is what I have:
https://www.amazon.com/IRWIN-Tools-Double-Edge-9-5-Inch-213103/dp/B0001GLEZ8?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-ffsb-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B0001GLEZ8
As I first mentioned, these aren't identical to a true Japanese saw as used in Japan a century ago, but are commonly called a Japanese saw in the US, and very handy.
Thanks for the links, still interested if there is a Japanese specific one mentioned previously.
If I ever find the time and money, I'd love to take up wood working with no power tools just traditional implements.
If I could, I'd bottle the scent of fresh cut lumber and wear at as a cologne!
As long as it isn't red oak...that shit is stanky
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Thanks for the links, still interested if there is a Japanese specific one mentioned previously.
If I ever find the time and money, I'd love to take up wood working with no power tools just traditional implements.
If I could, I'd bottle the scent of fresh cut lumber and wear at as a cologne!
Look at WoodworkersSupply or Rockler.
I don't know a specific Japanese name for a saw, but IWASAKI Japanese files are supposed to be the shiznit. I have looked at several YT vids. Stewart McDonald sells them under their name as luthier tools with the $$ jacked up. I'm waiting for 3 piece kit to be available again at Woodworkers supply.
The files go by different names but IWASAKI is the name I keep seeing as the good stuff. They go by Milled-Tooth File, Carving File, Razor Files, etc..
If IWASAKI makes a pull saw, I would expect that's a good brand. But here's and article on pull saws.
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/american-woodworker-blog/japanese-dozuki-saws
I bought this saw just a couple weeks ago. If you search Fret Saw on ebay, the Japanese styles will run $35 to $70. I needed one for limited use and figured I'd give it a try. It's made in USA by ZONA and part number 35-380. I tried it just to see how much cutting it would take to deepen the fret slots after I finished sanding down a guitar fretboard. Holy cow, I pulled it maybe twice with almost no pressure and I had to stop it was cutting so fast and smooth. So needless to say, I got my $17.50 worth and then some.
ETA: just did an Amazon search for Zona Saw... they have several saws for right around the $10 range of all sizes and kerf. For little money you could probably put a nice set together.
horseman234
04-16-17, 18:05
Lee Valley carries a variety of Japanese saws:
http://www.leevalley.com/us/home/Search.aspx?action=n
Moose-Knuckle
04-17-17, 04:29
My son still talks about going into the Toiyabe National Forest and cutting a Christmas tree when we lived in Nevada. He describes it in minute detail including the smell. I find this cute and amusing since he was two at the time. The scent of fresh cut spruce is memorable, though.
I'd buy a bottle.
Aromas have a power until themselves to trigger memories in us, both good and bad.
This or something nearly identical is what I have:
https://www.amazon.com/IRWIN-Tools-Double-Edge-9-5-Inch-213103/dp/B0001GLEZ8?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-ffsb-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B0001GLEZ8
As I first mentioned, these aren't identical to a true Japanese saw as used in Japan a century ago, but are commonly called a Japanese saw in the US, and very handy.
Ah okay, I gottcha now. Seen these before but didn't realize they were referred to as Japanese saws here.
As long as it isn't red oak...that shit is stanky
Haha, good to know as I haven't encountered that species here in the wilds of TX.
Look at WoodworkersSupply or Rockler.
I don't know a specific Japanese name for a saw, but IWASAKI Japanese files are supposed to be the shiznit. I have looked at several YT vids. Stewart McDonald sells them under their name as luthier tools with the $$ jacked up. I'm waiting for 3 piece kit to be available again at Woodworkers supply.
The files go by different names but IWASAKI is the name I keep seeing as the good stuff. They go by Milled-Tooth File, Carving File, Razor Files, etc..
If IWASAKI makes a pull saw, I would expect that's a good brand. But here's and article on pull saws.
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/american-woodworker-blog/japanese-dozuki-saws
I bought this saw just a couple weeks ago. If you search Fret Saw on ebay, the Japanese styles will run $35 to $70. I needed one for limited use and figured I'd give it a try. It's made in USA by ZONA and part number 35-380. I tried it just to see how much cutting it would take to deepen the fret slots after I finished sanding down a guitar fretboard. Holy cow, I pulled it maybe twice with almost no pressure and I had to stop it was cutting so fast and smooth. So needless to say, I got my $17.50 worth and then some.
ETA: just did an Amazon search for Zona Saw... they have several saws for right around the $10 range of all sizes and kerf. For little money you could probably put a nice set together.
Ah hah, many thanks for the info and the links.
Lee Valley carries a variety of Japanese saws:
http://www.leevalley.com/us/home/Search.aspx?action=n
Appreciate the link and info!
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