View Full Version : Man dragged off plane....
Due to flight being over booked?! This one seems like there must be more to the story as it's so "WTF?" Does United have any idea what they have just done to their PR in this modern day of cell phone cams?
A video posted on Facebook late Sunday evening shows a passenger on a United Airlines flight from Chicago to Louisville being forcibly removed from the plane before takeoff at O’Hare International Airport.
The video, posted by Audra D. Bridges at 7:30 p.m. Sunday, is taken from an aisle seat on a commercial airplane that appears to be preparing to take flight. The 31-second clip shows three men wearing radio equipment and security jackets speaking with a man seated on the plane. After a few seconds, one of the men grabs the passenger, who screams, and drags him by his arms toward the front of the plane. The video ends before anything else is shown.
A United spokesperson confirmed in an email Sunday night that a passenger had been taken off a flight in Chicago.
"Flight 3411 from Chicago to Louisville was overbooked," the spokesperson said. "After our team looked for volunteers, one customer refused to leave the aircraft voluntarily and law enforcement was asked to come to the gate.
"We apologize for the overbook situation. Further details on the removed customer should be directed to authorities."
http://i.imgur.com/EXuO7HL.gif
Outlander Systems
04-10-17, 20:00
Soooooo...
What's the guy getting dragged off the plane going to rename the airline?
Outlander Systems
04-10-17, 20:06
I now have the damn Leonard Bernstein song stuck in my head.
https://youtu.be/7-0ZwlOjg90
Serious question. Is that what, "Flying the Friendly Skies" looks like?
SeriousStudent
04-10-17, 20:10
The physician should look at the bright side. United is going to pay off any remaining student loan debt he has, and probably put his kids through college as well.
Cue the 1970's United Airlines commercial theme music: "Fly the friendly skies, of United...."
Oh, and I hate United Airlines with the passionate heat of a thousand burning suns.
That is all.
SeriousStudent
04-10-17, 20:11
I now have the damn Leonard Bernstein song stuck in my head.
https://youtu.be/7-0ZwlOjg90
Serious question. Is that what, "Flying the Friendly Skies" looks like?
That was exactly my first thought. Friendly bastiges, ain't ya?
Soooooo...
What's the guy getting dragged off the plane going to rename the airline?
I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop that makes this not appear as it is, like he was being a drunk idiot or something, as I don't want to believe United could really be that stupid. Speaking of doubling down on the stupid...
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9F-RxlXgAAn7uz.jpg:large
"This is an upsetting event to all of us here at United. I apologize for having to re-accommodate these customers." - United CEO Oscar Munoz
The plane was completely full, everyone on board held a payed-for ticket (more or less, maybe some family passes or whatever). Then 4 United employees approached the gate. They needed to get on board so they could work the next day.
United could have kept raising the money offer until 4 people voluntarily took a $1k+ payoff and got off the plane. They could have driven the United employees a few hours away.
But they did this, likely costing them millions.
From the CEO to United employees:
https://twitter.com/RyanRuggiero/status/851577150117425154/photo/1
The physician should look at the bright side. United is going to pay off any remaining student loan debt he has, and probably put his kids through college as well.
Cue the 1970's United Airlines commercial theme music: "Fly the friendly skies, of United...."
Oh, and I hate United Airlines with the passionate heat of a thousand burning suns.
That is all.
Airline escapades like that always remind me of this episode...
http://southpark.cc.com/clips/153051/flexi-grips
I have read that the plane was fully booked. United needed to get four employees somewhere and decided to randomly pull four passengers because they did not get any volunteers.
I fly quite a bit, I'll never fly united again. I'll do my best to prevent others from from flying united.
I home this guys sues the life out them.
"This is an upsetting event to all of us here at United. I apologize for having to re-accommodate these customers." - United CEO Oscar Munoz
The plane was completely full, everyone on board held a payed-for ticket (more or less, maybe some family passes or whatever). Then 4 United employees approached the gate. They needed to get on board so they could work the next day.
United could have kept raising the money offer until 4 people voluntarily took a $1k+ payoff and got off the plane. They could have driven the United employees a few hours away.
But they did this, likely costing them millions.
From the CEO to United employees:
https://twitter.com/RyanRuggiero/status/851577150117425154/photo/1
If that's the case and why they yanked that poor SOB off the plane, United is in deep do do even if technically legal as claimed.
He waited his whole damn life, just to take that flight.....
I'm sorry, this is funny
"After our team looked for volunteers, one customer refused to leave the aircraft voluntarily and law enforcement was asked to come to the gate.
Like it was his fault for not volunteering.
Since when did United get absorbed by Aeroflot?
He waited his whole damn life, just to take that flight.....
I'm sorry, this is funny
Like it was his fault for not volunteering.
Since when did United get absorbed by Aeroflot?
"Refused to volunteer" is an oxymoron.
This guy might get a pittance from United, maybe. This shit happens DAILY.
They did NOT randomly pull these passengers. When you do an involuntary denied boarding the gate agent prints a list with every persons check in time on it. They start at the bottom and tell them to get off. IF in fact there were 3 other people(4 total) removed to accommodate the crew that needed to get to the destination(in order to not inconvenience hundreds of other passengers when a flight cancels or delays due to lack of crew), why was this guy the only one forcibly removed by the cops? THIS to me says the guy was being less than cooperative.
As airline employee's we get it, it sucks, but being a dick about it gets you drug off the airplane.
We see NOTHING from this video of the 15-20 minutes PRIOR to this guy getting drug off the plane. It takes A LOT to get the cops called onto an airplane. Ive called them 3x in 11 years and was witness to 1 other event where the cops drug a lady off after landing because she was harassing the flight attendant the whole time.
They said he did initially volunteer but when he found out the next flight wasn't until the next day he decided not to. That's when random seats were picked
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
That's when random seats were picked
its NOT random seats... NOT....
They print the list out and the last people to check in are the first off the plane. Thats why everybody stresses to check in 24 hours in advance. IF you are the guy that checks in at the airport ticket counter 45 minutes before the flight and barely makes it through security, guess who is getting off if need be....you.
Jwknutson17
04-10-17, 20:36
They should have kept upping the dollar amount until they had volunteers. Plain and simple. Should have never got to this. I fly 80 plus times a year and never once seen a single person drug off a plane. Well I fly southwest. So they apparently are doing things a little better then United.
SeriousStudent
04-10-17, 20:37
rjacobs, I understand what you are saying.
But if the doctor needed to get to work the next day, and the United employees needed to get to work the next day......?
As a paying passenger, I think the airline needs to increase their cash offers until someone takes it. And frankly, I am incredibly sick of paying for a ticket 3-6 weeks in advance, and have to play the seat lottery just to get a seat that I paid for. Every single time I fly, the plane is overbooked. Every damn time.
United is going to smoke a gigantic fat turd over this one. It's a PR nightmare, and they just lost a lot more customers than they gained.
Trump won an election because he spoke to people who were pissed off about politics. This video does the same thing: A LOT of people hate the way they are treated by the management of a few airlines.
Due to flight being over booked?! This one seems like there must be more to the story as it's so "WTF?" Does United have any idea what they have just done to their PR in this modern day of cell phone cams?
A video posted on Facebook late Sunday evening shows a passenger on a United Airlines flight from Chicago to Louisville being forcibly removed from the plane before takeoff at O’Hare International Airport.
The video, posted by Audra D. Bridges at 7:30 p.m. Sunday, is taken from an aisle seat on a commercial airplane that appears to be preparing to take flight. The 31-second clip shows three men wearing radio equipment and security jackets speaking with a man seated on the plane. After a few seconds, one of the men grabs the passenger, who screams, and drags him by his arms toward the front of the plane. The video ends before anything else is shown.
A United spokesperson confirmed in an email Sunday night that a passenger had been taken off a flight in Chicago.
"Flight 3411 from Chicago to Louisville was overbooked," the spokesperson said. "After our team looked for volunteers, one customer refused to leave the aircraft voluntarily and law enforcement was asked to come to the gate.
"We apologize for the overbook situation. Further details on the removed customer should be directed to authorities."
When you are ordered to leave the plane and you refuse that's what happens. Ask. Advise. Order. Then it's time to go hands on and physically remove him. He escalated the situation. How else would you like them to remove him? The passenger didn't follow orders then cried like a child. He's no more important than the guy who works as a mechanic and needs to get home to fix people's cars. This is absolutely disgusting. He Broke The Law!
They said he did initially volunteer but when he found out the next flight wasn't until the next day he decided not to. That's when random seats were picked
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
You know what....unless it was life or death and if they offered to put me up somewhere for the night, sheeeyit, I'd take it.
Get me a pizza and some Pibb. I take pride in being a cheap date and an easy lay.
I watched enough of them Final Destination movies to know "This may not be such a bad thing".
I am like BA Baracus when it comes to flight. Paranoid and skittish.
In the air, I'm fine. Take off and Landing, I get religious. Intercontinental, I pop sleeping pills or a Xanax.
Not afraid of dying. I will accept any and all forms of miserable death except some horrible disease or a plane crash. Nope, nope, nope. I saw that movie Alive in Junior High for movie week. Neeeewp.
What law did he break
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
What law did he break
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Contempt of TSA.
They used to shoot people for that in the 30s.
Trust me that "everybody just HAS HAS HAS HAS HAS to get where they are going for "insert reason here""... LIFE AND DEATH... ETC....
If you have 4 crew that dont get where they are going to operate the next day, that flight is delayed/cancelled and then you have 100-200(I have no clue what size airplane they were operating) that are delayed that United has to deal with. So inconvenience 1 person or inconvenience 100+? Simple decision on the airlines part and I can guarantee the next time the decision will 100% be the exact same.
The airlines usually max at $600 or $1000 and in this case the guy would get a hotel and probably 50-100 in meal vouchers.
If they can get the guy to the destination same day the federal max is 200% of ticket price paid or $675 whichever is lower. If they cant get the pax there same day its like 1350 or 400% of ticket price paid, whichever is lower, plus a hotel. So thats pretty much where the 600 and 1000 come from. Ive never seen it get higher than 1000, they usually cut it off and do denied boarding because it ends up being cheaper, especially on domestic cheap ass tickets. So if a person paid $200 for their ticket and was denied and got there same day they would only get $400 where if they volunteered they would get maybe $600. Same situation but stuck overnight that person would get $800 vs. maybe $1000... so again, better to volunteer.
I predict, if United followed their SOP's, and from what I am hearing, they did, this guy wont get shit. Now Chicago PD, who knows, since they are already saying these two guys(or at least one) didnt follow proper procedure.
People are acting in this whole thing like United called Chicago PD and said "hey come drag this ****er off the airplane and bang him around in front of the passengers a bit"... and I can guarantee it didnt go down like that.
You know what....unless it was life or death and if they offered to put me up somewhere for the night, sheeeyit, I'd take it.
Get me a pizza and some Pibb. I take pride in being a cheap date and an easy lay.
I watched enough of them Final Destination movies to know "This may not be such a bad thing".
I am like BA Baracus when it comes to flight. Paranoid and skittish.
In the air, I'm fine. Take off and Landing, I get religious. Intercontinental, I pop sleeping pills or a Xanax.
Not afraid of dying. I will accept any and all forms of miserable death except some horrible disease or a plane crash. Nope, nope, nope. I saw that movie Alive in Junior High for movie week. Neeeewp.
I would probably do the same exact thing but he didn't want to an I don't blame him.
My idea of a good flight is when the plane doesn't leave the ground. My last international flight I was up for two days prior, drank everything in sight, and still couldn't get drunk or tired. Landed in Schipol as sober and fresh as a cucumber
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
If that's the case and why they yanked that poor SOB off the plane, United is in deep do do even if technically legal as claimed.
Are they? Don't get me wrong, this should have been handled in a much different manner by the airline or police. However, we agree to a contract when we purchase the ticket that basically allows the airline to sodomize us however they see fit. Is it fair? No, but plenty of contracts are not fair. The fact that this guy agreed to the terms of the contract, and then threw a fit when the airline exercised the clause in the fine print should factor into our decision making when evaluating this.
Also, be careful with that initial gut reaction to have the government pass more regulations. It will only increase the price of your ticket.
Don Robison
04-10-17, 20:52
I can see both sides to this one. Him refusing to leave was't going to fly no matter how frustrated he was and at the same time airlines selling product they don't have is getting ridiculous. Yankee Stadium seats 54,251; they would be crucified if they regularly sold 56,251 tickets and told the extra 2000 ticket holders to come back next week.
its NOT random seats... NOT....
They print the list out and the last people to check in are the first off the plane. Thats why everybody stresses to check in 24 hours in advance. IF you are the guy that checks in at the airport ticket counter 45 minutes before the flight and barely makes it through security, guess who is getting off if need be....you.
To allow some United employees on who want your seat. Am I reading that correctly?
DOT, from what I understand, watches oversale numbers/statistics pretty religiously on a per flight basis.
If they consistently see over sales then they force the airline to back off the over sale allowance.
It is a monitored and allowed number from the DOT.
If you have 4 crew that dont get where they are going to operate the next day, that flight is delayed/cancelled and then you have 100-200(I have no clue what size airplane they were operating) that are delayed that United has to deal with. So inconvenience 1 person or inconvenience 100+? Simple decision on the airlines part and I can guarantee the next time the decision will 100% be the exact same.
That sounds like a United Airlines staffing problem to me. They ultimately made the guy who scheduled that flight weeks or months in advance pay for their inability to manage their crew staffing inadequacies.
Don Robison
04-10-17, 20:55
DOT, from what I understand, watches oversale numbers/statistics pretty religiously on a per flight basis.
If they consistently see over sales then they force the airline to back off the over sale allowance.
It is a monitored and allowed number from the DOT.
The problem is it is allowed.
To allow some United employees on who want your seat. Am I reading that correctly?
not non-revenue, vacationing employees, these were working employees positioning for the next day.
We, as an industry, position employee's all the time. Called dead head. Happens for various reasons. Last minute dead head(like it sounds like this was) is pretty rare and usually happens when somebody calls sick or an airplane from somewhere else didnt make it in, yet they need a crew to operate a different plane, etc... LOTS of reasons, and, as a passenger, you dont see the big picture at all, hell the crew that is dead heading doesnt even see the big picture.
If you walked up to a gate agent as a non-rev on vacation and demanded a revenue passenger be removed for you, at BEST you would have your pass travel privileges revoked, at worst you would be fired.
The problem is it is allowed.
I would guess 99.9% of the time it never even comes into play.
Airlines operate on a razor thin margin of maybe 1-3%. Most other business's if they only made 1-3% would close the doors because "its not worth it"... but this pesky government kinda wont allow that to happen to the airlines. So they allow and monitor some things like over sale.
When you are ordered to leave the plane and you refuse that's what happens.
Ordered to leave because some United employees want your seat, got. I have been on a plane when some drunk jerk ball had to be forcibly removed and he earned the physical removal. I'd sure hope you can see the difference.
Ask. Advise. Order. Then it's time to go hands on and physically remove him.
Because some United employees want your seat...
He escalated the situation. How else would you like them to remove him? The passenger didn't follow orders then cried like a child. He's no more important than the guy who works as a mechanic and needs to get home to fix people's cars. This is absolutely disgusting. He Broke The Law!
Physically removing a paying customer to volunteer to give up his seat because some employees want it, is what should be illegal here. I'm not clear on what laws were or were no broken.
I would guess 99.9% of the time it never even comes into play.
Airlines operate on a razor thin margin of maybe 1-3%. Most other business's if they only made 1-3% would close the doors because "its not worth it"... but this pesky government kinda wont allow that to happen to the airlines. So they allow and monitor some things like over sale.
15%
http://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverwyman/2016/01/19/airline-profit-margins-soar-despite-revenue-challenges/
Even UAL averaged 6% profit margin in 2016 and 18% in 2015.
That sounds like a United Airlines staffing problem to me. They ultimately made the guy who scheduled that flight weeks or months in advance pay for their inability to manage their crew staffing inadequacies.
When you run an operation with over 1000 airplanes doing 5000+ flights a day with 20k crew members out in the system, shit happens, and you have to react.
Crew member calls in sick: gotta be replaced.
A different flight cancels and now a crew isnt in position to operate a different plane: gotta replace the whole crew.
The big picture in a global airline is pretty muddy, even for those with access to tools to give them the "big picture".
I have read that the plane was fully booked. United needed to get four employees somewhere and decided to randomly pull four passengers because they did not get any volunteers.
I fly quite a bit, I'll never fly united again. I'll do my best to prevent others from from flying united.
I home this guys sues the life out them.
You know what....unless it was life or death and if they offered to put me up somewhere for the night, sheeeyit, I'd take it.
Get me a pizza and some Pibb. I take pride in being a cheap date and an easy lay.
I watched enough of them Final Destination movies to know "This may not be such a bad thing".
I am like BA Baracus when it comes to flight. Paranoid and skittish.
In the air, I'm fine. Take off and Landing, I get religious. Intercontinental, I pop sleeping pills or a Xanax.
Not afraid of dying. I will accept any and all forms of miserable death except some horrible disease or a plane crash. Nope, nope, nope. I saw that movie Alive in Junior High for movie week. Neeeewp.
I would have loved four $800 vouchers. I'm traveling soon with my three children I would have seriously considered it. $3,200 in air fair would allow us another vacation this year!
What law did he break
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
I don't know the statue. I do know you must obey the order given by flight crew members. Don't wanna listen. Take the bus or rent a car. Here in VT it would at least be trespassing. If you refuse to leave when told to by someone in authority. If you're at my house and I say leave and you refuse or a store manager tells you to leave you need to leave. You don't get to stomp you feet and say no. You can and should be arrested. This is just like the assholes who block the interstate in protest. Arrest them!
To allow some United employees on who want your seat. Am I reading that correctly?
Yup. They own the planes. They make the rules.
I would probably do the same exact thing but he didn't want to an I don't blame him.
Ditto for me, I'd probably have taken the deal and been done, but not blame him for saying no.
Will you are missing the point.
The employee's didnt just wander up and say "oh can you please remove that guy, I want to go to louisville tonight(or wherever they were going) for vacation"... That didnt happen.
I can guarantee those 4 crew members said "I dont give 2 shits if I go or not, do what you want". Thats what I always said to gate agents who said "god damn it, I gotta pull passengers off to put you ****s on"... Thats always just about how it went, and I am not joking. I told a gate agent one night that was bitching a fit about having to take a passenger off to leave me behind, he did. I called my company and said "I was denied boarding" and that was that. No clue what my company did or if said gate agent got in trouble.
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-10-17, 21:10
Wow. What horrible PR, and it isn't even real United people, it is an RJ run by Republic (IIRC) doing business as United. The Republic crews are usually pretty good, Easyjet and Skywest are Ok and I refuse if at all possible to fly on GoJet, or as a call then No-GoJet. The millions in lost fares in the past 24 hours... United has actually been getting a bit better lately.
So some gate agent for a outsourcer takes a complete dump in your brand equity.
My major karmic issue is that if you want a certain seat or perks you pay for it. Want to change anything on your ticket- $200 bucks. Buy a ticket last minute, big bucks. But the airline wants to change stuff, F-U, STFU or we'll call The Man.
Gate agent in Chicago is a mainline United employee. So is the ramp crew. Only outsourced part was the flight crew. And in denied boarding they(flight crew) have zero say in anything. Even if it had been a United Airlines crew(and not Republic) they still would have had zero say.
This is on the gate agent and REALLY on the cops.
Ordered to leave because some United employees want your seat, got. I have been on a plane when some drunk jerk ball had to be forcibly removed and he earned the physical removal. I'd sure hope you can see the difference.
Because some United employees want your seat...
Physically removing a paying customer to volunteer to give up his seat because some employees want it, is what should be illegal here. I'm not clear on what laws were or were no broken.
Yeah it's really simple. When you own something and you don't want me on it you can tell me to leave. If I don't leave and the police are called to remove me I don't win by continuing to have a temper tantrum. This guy is an MD! WTF! Time to grow up. Life ain't fair. Deal with it. Bitch and moan. Write letters and don't fly United again. Fighting with the police is a bad idea ! He is 100%!wrong. How would you like it if I walked into your business or even worse your back yard or house and refused to leave?
not non-revenue, vacationing employees, these were working employees positioning for the next day.
And that's the paying and already seated customers problem and responsibility why again? I have been offered such a deal and took it. What I didn't know was had i said no, I really have to get home, sorry I can't do it, I could be forcibly removed from that plane due to what's ultimately the screw up of the airline.
We, as an industry, position employee's all the time. Called dead head. Happens for various reasons. Last minute dead head(like it sounds like this was) is pretty rare and usually happens when somebody calls sick or an airplane from somewhere else didnt make it in, yet they need a crew to operate a different plane, etc... LOTS of reasons, and, as a passenger, you dont see the big picture at all, hell the crew that is dead heading doesnt even see the big picture.
If you walked up to a gate agent as a non-rev on vacation and demanded a revenue passenger be removed for you, at BEST you would have your pass travel privileges revoked, at worst you would be fired.
There's a reason why people have such a low opinion of the airlines compared to when you actually looked forward to flying, and this is an example and gonna be a PR shit storm.
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-10-17, 21:18
If you've paid me hundreds of dollars to be there, I let you in, and then told you come back tomorrow...
What I didn't know was had i said no, I really have to get home, sorry I can't do it, I could be forcibly removed from that plane due to what's ultimately the screw up of the airline.
Yes, if you were the last person to check in.
And I wouldnt call it a screw up of the airline, just shit that goes on in any given day. Again, when you operate 1000+ airplanes, 5000 flights a day, with 20k crew members, shit happens, and the airline has to react to fix the situation. This is not an unusual situation. I bet it happened a few other times that day and most likely a few times today too, yet you didnt see anybody else get drug off by the cops.
Don Robison
04-10-17, 21:24
Will you are missing the point.
Actually, you're missing the point. The company made a company problem a customer problem. That doesn't play well in the news or social media where they are now being roasted.
Getting employees to work is both a company and individual problem, not a customer problem.
I would have loved four $800 vouchers. I'm traveling soon with my three children I would have seriously considered it. $3,200 in air fair would allow us vacation this year!
I don't know the statue. I do know yo must obey the order given by flight crew members. Don't wanna listen. Take the bus or rent a car. Here in VT it would at least be trespassing. If you refuse to leave when told to by someone in authority. If you're at my house and I say leave and you refuse or a store manager tells yiu to leave yiu need to leave. You don't get to stomp you feet and say no. You can and should be arrested. This is just like the assholes who block the interstate in protest. Arrest them!
Yup. They own the planes. They make the rules.
Yes yes. You can kick me out of your house or a store. But I payed for this seat and I'm sitting quietly not bothering anyone. Not drunk, not vulgar, just minding my own business in a seat that I payed for.
Those same employees can split a rental an go from O'Hare airport to Louisville KY in 5hrs. Probably less.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Actually, you're missing the point. The company made a company problem a customer problem. That doesn't play well in the news or social media where they are now being roasted.
Getting employees to work is both a company and individual problem, not a customer problem.
you mis-read what I was trying to say.
I was reading into Will's posts like he thinks an employee just walked up and stole this guys seat because said employee wanted to go on vacation or personal travel or whatever. Thats not the case.
Thats the only point I was trying to make on that.
AND I will say it again, the airline will inconvenience 1 or 2 people ALL DAY LONG in order to protect 100-200-300+ other passengers by getting crew into position. Ever see the lines at customer service when airplanes and crews get out of position due to weather or whatever? Thousands of people stranded for days on end... the airlines do everything possible in order to avoid that happening because its a nightmare.
Coal Dragger
04-10-17, 21:34
What a shit show.
Makes me despise airlines even more than I did after my last experience with them late last year. Screw United Airlines, maybe this will push them over the edge into bankruptcy.
Don Robison
04-10-17, 21:36
you mis-read what I was trying to say.
I was reading into Will's posts like he thinks an employee just walked up and stole this guys seat because said employee wanted to go on vacation or personal travel or whatever. Thats not the case.
Thats the only point I was trying to make on that.
AND I will say it again, the airline will inconvenience 1 or 2 people ALL DAY LONG in order to protect 100-200-300+ other passengers by getting crew into position. Ever see the lines at customer service when airplanes and crews get out of position due to weather or whatever? Thousands of people stranded for days on end... the airlines do everything possible in order to avoid that happening because its a nightmare.
I get it, it doesn't mean I like it.
I get it, it doesn't mean I like it.
Couldn't resist
http://i.imgur.com/eNhZmCc.jpg
SomeOtherGuy
04-10-17, 21:54
rjacobs, I understand what you are saying.
But if the doctor needed to get to work the next day, and the United employees needed to get to work the next day......?
As a paying passenger, I think the airline needs to increase their cash offers until someone takes it. And frankly, I am incredibly sick of paying for a ticket 3-6 weeks in advance, and have to play the seat lottery just to get a seat that I paid for. Every single time I fly, the plane is overbooked. Every damn time.
United is going to smoke a gigantic fat turd over this one. It's a PR nightmare, and they just lost a lot more customers than they gained.
This, 100%.
Not endorsing the dragged-off guy's actions, but United's actions here are totally indefensible. If they can't get their crews to where they are needed without doing this, they are a total joke and should be shut down tomorrow.
It's not hard to book only the seats you have. I know that overbooking is normal in the airline industry, but in most other places it's a serious crime. Like if I write $10k of checks with a $9k balance in my account. Should I just tell the last person to deposit a check "oh, sorry, my checking account was overbooked, you'll have to wait"? Intentional overbooking should be treated as criminal fraud, with the penalties that is supposed to bring.
I think a lot of us are most tired of the incredibly one-sided nature of things. Airline passengers are treated about like convicted felons in prison, but if the airline does the most asinine and seemingly criminal things, it simply gets away with them.
Sure they can do what they want, but screw that bullshit about being forced off because of their own problem. I don't care about sob stories of "x number of employees, x number of flights, shit happens". It's not the customers fault and you should have run your business differently. With so many options, that was the best they could come up with? They can do that, I'll spend money elsewhere.
The customer was an idiot too. Both sides sucked.
Couldn't resist
You know that CPD has some bad mofos when they can beat the shit out of Sho Kosugi like that. Steyr is probably beside himself thinking he should've trained BJJ...
Why didn't they just charter a plane for the EEs? Would have been a whole lot cheaper than this pr nightmare
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk
Yes yes. You can kick me out of your house or a store. But I payed for this seat and I'm sitting quietly not bothering anyone. Not drunk, not vulgar, just minding my own business in a seat that I payed for.
Those same employees can split a rental an go from O'Hare airport to Louisville KY in 5hrs. Probably less.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk. Why would they rent a car when they own the plane? It Sucks but temper tantrums are not the answer. This is such a 1st World Proboem. What a waste of time and energy.
Sure they can do what they want, but screw that bullshit about being forced off because of their own problem. I don't care about sob stories of "x number of employees, x number of flights, shit happens". It's not the customers fault and you should have run your business differently. With so many options, that was the best they could come up with? They can do that, I'll spend money elsewhere.
The customer was an idiot too. Both sides sucked.. It's a bad situation.
You know that CPD has some bad mofos when they can beat the shit out of Sho Kosugi like that. Steyr is probably beside himself thinking he should've trained BJJ...
The guy was acting like he was knocked out but he held onto his cellphone just fine. He was playing games and lost.
wildcard600
04-10-17, 22:48
Sure they can do what they want, but screw that bullshit about being forced off because of their own problem. I don't care about sob stories of "x number of employees, x number of flights, shit happens". It's not the customers fault and you should have run your business differently. With so many options, that was the best they could come up with? They can do that, I'll spend money elsewhere.
The customer was an idiot too. Both sides sucked.
This is where I'm at. I used to work in logistics and when someone from our side (planning, booking) f-ed up we would take a bath and pay some ridiculous amounts of money to ensure freight was covered. Just like many times when we were told "no drivers available" but once a $2000 dead head fee was on the table you would have thought there were entire fleets of trucks out there just waiting to be loaded. Had the airline taken a similar approach and offer the passengers something more substantial once the volunteers dried up, someone would have bitten.
Nobody is that important.
If it were POTUS with EWO and needed an impromptu TACAMO plane and your budget Red Eye is all that is handy, well then step aside with dignity.
Otherwise nobody is the last doctor/mechanic/porn star in the world.
En Route to a Funeral? Gramps is dead and not going anywhere.
Going to a wedding? Yaaawn, if they really like you they'll wait, otherwise they will be divorced in two years anyways.
Wife giving birth? Meh, if she loves you; she'll cross dem legs. Otherwise what has been seen cannot be unseen.
En route to a meeting? meh, they'll understand. If not, they can buy another ticket. If it is super important; phonecall or skype dat sucker.
You all know that plane travel is like a bus for the skies. You know that right?
If you were that important; you'd have your own plane.
At the end of the day....I have to deem this:
#WhitePeopleProblems
Its not like they were not going to refund or reaccomodate. Plus Rjacobs is giving knowledge. Early bird gets the worm. If you on that slow time then obviously it wasn't that important or you would have left yesterday.
Me, I'd be chilling with some strange in a decent room waking up early and rested off to live my meaningless, meaningless life. Perhaps all the better for it.
Due to flight being over booked?! This one seems like there must be more to the story as it's so "WTF?" Does United have any idea what they have just done to their PR in this modern day of cell phone cams?
A video posted on Facebook late Sunday evening shows a passenger on a United Airlines flight from Chicago to Louisville being forcibly removed from the plane before takeoff at O’Hare International Airport.
The video, posted by Audra D. Bridges at 7:30 p.m. Sunday, is taken from an aisle seat on a commercial airplane that appears to be preparing to take flight. The 31-second clip shows three men wearing radio equipment and security jackets speaking with a man seated on the plane. After a few seconds, one of the men grabs the passenger, who screams, and drags him by his arms toward the front of the plane. The video ends before anything else is shown.
A United spokesperson confirmed in an email Sunday night that a passenger had been taken off a flight in Chicago.
"Flight 3411 from Chicago to Louisville was overbooked," the spokesperson said. "After our team looked for volunteers, one customer refused to leave the aircraft voluntarily and law enforcement was asked to come to the gate.
"We apologize for the overbook situation. Further details on the removed customer should be directed to authorities."
The weirdest thing was he came back on the plane after he was dragged off, he had a bloody face and was mumbling some crazy shit like "kill me kill me kill me..."
Where's Al Sharpton and Rev Jesse Jackson and the NAACP and ACLU?
Nobody is that important.
If it were POTUS with EWO and needed an impromptu TACAMO plane and your budget Red Eye is all that is handy, well then step aside with dignity.
Otherwise nobody is the last doctor/mechanic/porn star in the world.
En Route to a Funeral? Gramps is dead and not going anywhere.
Going to a wedding? Yaaawn, if they really like you they'll wait, otherwise they will be divorced in two years anyways.
Wife giving birth? Meh, if she loves you; she'll cross dem legs. Otherwise what has been seen cannot be unseen.
En route to a meeting? meh, they'll understand. If not, they can buy another ticket. If it is super important; phonecall or skype dat sucker.
You all know that plane travel is like a bus for the skies. You know that right?
If you were that important; you'd have your own plane.
At the end of the day....I have to deem this:
#WhitePeopleProblems
Its not like they were not going to refund or reaccomodate. Plus Rjacobs is giving knowledge. Early bird gets the worm. If you on that slow time then obviously it wasn't that important or you would have left yesterday.
Me, I'd be chilling with some strange in a decent room waking up early and rested off to live my meaningless, meaningless life. Perhaps all the better for it.
Personally, I think they should have OC'ed his ass right there. I mean - empty the canister on that old man. Nothing says bon voyage on a plane like a little OC spray...
The weirdest thing was he came back on the plane after he was dragged off, he had a bloody face and was mumbling some crazy shit like "kill me kill me kill me..."
Pray For Death.
The number 1 Ninja movie ever was Ninja 3: The Domination followed closely by American Ninja 2 or 3 or whichever had the obstacle course and Marines fighting Ninjas with guns and that one dude with the ninja star eye patch.
Honestly, Sho Kosugi never fully seemed like a full time bad ass.
The one chop socky Oriental that genuinely scared the shit out of me was Bolo Yeung. ESPECIALLY in Tiger Claws. This big swole ass dude coming out and dismembering folks.
It wasn't until watching the glory days of pre-porn midnight skinemax chopsocky movies that he actually started playing a good guy.
Personally, I think they should have OC'ed his ass right there. I mean - empty the canister on that old man. Nothing says bon voyage on a plane like a little OC spray...
Naw dude. Dont OC around people in such a tight spot. PPCT or good ol' ghetto elbow grease.
Naw dude. Dont OC around people in such a tight spot. PPCT or good ol' ghetto elbow grease.
Yeah, I was kidding but it would have made for some funny videos.
Quote: "Why didn't they just charter a plane for the EEs? Would have been a whole lot cheaper than this pr nightmare."
Try, try, try as you might, legally binding and administratively correct as you can be, there is NO way to polish a piece of excrement like this. Full disclosure--I don't know squat about airlines but my son is a professional pilot and he does. Somebody in management, when this started to turn to crap, should have made a damn decision and said screw it, get a damn charter (rent a car???) rolled out and get our four people where they need to be without further ado. Shut the door on the airplane and get it gone NOW. Free drinks for everybody. It's only money...Talk about a PR nightmare now...
The only plane I have set foot in the last 20 plus years is my son's 182. And he'd better not give me any crap because I was the money under his wings getting him started.
Yeah, I was kidding but it would have made for some funny videos.
Can a nickel get a smiley? can he? it helps. :p
Somebody screwed up for letting too many people board. Note that departure was delayed 3 hours. The company could not have screwed this up more unless the customer had been an old black lady, and employees used the N word.
Despite what Fly man said, he would have spent the night in jail had he been ordered to leave. :big_boss:
ClearedHot
04-11-17, 00:06
Wonder how many law firms will be contacting this guy over the next week to represent him in the lawsuit against United. The settlement is going to be YUUUUGE.
Moose-Knuckle
04-11-17, 05:02
When you own something and you don't want me on it you can tell me to leave.
Tell that to a former bakery owner in Denver, CO.
Moose-Knuckle
04-11-17, 05:09
Can you just imagine the shit storm there would be had this guy been a muslim or a transvestite?!?!
#asianprivilege
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2950/33930478256_8c118cf161_b.jpg
This whole thing is all over the news. I don't care how United tries to justify it, I don't even care if they are in the right...the "optics" of the whole thing are terrible and United is going to take a real PR drubbing. On Fox this morning they even brought in Stuart Varney to detail the bath that UAL is going to take when the markets open.
There were so many other ways that United could have handled this. That kind of corporate stupidity does and should have consequences.
horseman234
04-11-17, 06:50
United may have been legally entitled to remove a passenger, but this was very poorly handled. Just the fact that they placed their own employees travel ahead of paying customers will have people avoiding United. If it was that imperative that those employees be on that plane, then United should have kept raising the cash incentive, and someone would have volunteered to relinquish their seat. Instead, they elected to be cheap, and that will cost them, both in legal fees, settlement costs, and lost goodwill with the public.
And, of course, this was predictable (from Twitter):
John Cho Verified account @JohnTheCho:
It's hard not to see a connection between the environment Trump has created and what happened on that @united flight.
What law did he break
Probably this:
Interference. The maximum civil penalty for interfering with a crewmember is a fine of up to $25,000. (49 U.S.C. § 46318.)
To impose a fine, the FAA files a notice of a proposed civil penalty. The passenger can request a hearing, which will be held before a federal Administrative Law Judge (ALJ). Usually, both the FAA and the passenger are allowed to present evidence, and the passenger can (and should) be represented by an attorney. After a hearing, the judge announces his or her decision, and sometimes issues a written decision. If either the passenger or the FAA requests review, the FAA Administrator reviews the judge’s decision. Either party may then appeal the Administrator’s decision by filing an appeal in a Federal Court of Appeals.
http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/interfering-with-a-flight-attendant-or-crewmember.htm#
Eurodriver
04-11-17, 07:04
So much arguing about whether this was within the rules.
News flash: No one ****ing cares. That is irrelevant.
Look at twitter. Reddit. Anything.
This is a huge PR hit for United. They could have simply increased the offer to the *legal amount required* and hoped someone took it. If that didn't work, increase it more and offer the hotel. I'd fly the next day for $1,300 and a hotel room.
But now they are going to deal with the fallout from dragging a bloody doctor off one of ther flights so some employees could fly for free.
Perception is reality.
But now they are going to deal with the fallout from dragging a bloody doctor off one of ther flights so some employees could fly for free.
Perception is reality.
I bet their CEO is thinking, 'Why couldn't it have been a lawyer.'
And, of course, this was predictable (from Twitter):
John Cho Verified account @JohnTheCho:
It's hard not to see a connection between the environment Trump has created and what happened on that @united flight.
I certainly feel less bad for him after reading that tweet and thankfully, he's taking some heat for it.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnTheCho/status/851527805129023488?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
This is where I'm at. I used to work in logistics and when someone from our side (planning, booking) f-ed up we would take a bath and pay some ridiculous amounts of money to ensure freight was covered. Just like many times when we were told "no drivers available" but once a $2000 dead head fee was on the table you would have thought there were entire fleets of trucks out there just waiting to be loaded. Had the airline taken a similar approach and offer the passengers something more substantial once the volunteers dried up, someone would have bitten.
It wouid be nice if they kept offering more cash. Not sure how the limit is set or if employees are empowered to increase it. It was a cluster for sure. But Doc was wrong.
Nobody is that important.
If it were POTUS with EWO and needed an impromptu TACAMO plane and your budget Red Eye is all that is handy, well then step aside with dignity.
Otherwise nobody is the last doctor/mechanic/porn star in the world.
En Route to a Funeral? Gramps is dead and not going anywhere.
Going to a wedding? Yaaawn, if they really like you they'll wait, otherwise they will be divorced in two years anyways.
Wife giving birth? Meh, if she loves you; she'll cross dem legs. Otherwise what has been seen cannot be unseen.
En route to a meeting? meh, they'll understand. If not, they can buy another ticket. If it is super important; phonecall or skype dat sucker.
You all know that plane travel is like a bus for the skies. You know that right?
If you were that important; you'd have your own plane.
At the end of the day....I have to deem this:
#WhitePeopleProblems
Its not like they were not going to refund or reaccomodate. Plus Rjacobs is giving knowledge. Early bird gets the worm. If you on that slow time then obviously it wasn't that important or you would have left yesterday.
Me, I'd be chilling with some strange in a decent room waking up early and rested off to live my meaningless, meaningless life. Perhaps all the better for it.
This is part of what passes me off. He saw himself above the rules or the little people on the flight. He was more important than everyone else. I would have taken the vouchers.
Tell that to a former bakery owner in Denver, CO.
I couldn't get the link to work on my phone. Background?
So much arguing about whether this was within the rules.
News flash: No one ****ing cares. That is irrelevant.
Look at twitter. Reddit. Anything.
This is a huge PR hit for United. They could have simply increased the offer to the *legal amount required* and hoped someone took it. If that didn't work, increase it more and offer the hotel. I'd fly the next day for $1,300 and a hotel room.
But now they are going to deal with the fallout from dragging a bloody doctor off one of ther flights so some employees could fly for free.
Perception is reality.
That's a Huge part of the problem here. We have a world full of people who feel they're owed something. It's a PR nightmare for sure. But why? Because Doc thinks he's entitled to special treatment. I'm glad he knows different. I would imagine airlines are giving their people the authority to raise limits. But that cuts both ways too. Now people may hold out for more.
I just watched the clip again. Oh my God. No. Oh look what you did to him. Bull $hit! The police reacted to his refusal to leave. That's how it works. It's really very simple. It's ugly but it's fair and it's legal. It just doesn't look great.
Digital_Damage
04-11-17, 07:50
you mis-read what I was trying to say.
I was reading into Will's posts like he thinks an employee just walked up and stole this guys seat because said employee wanted to go on vacation or personal travel or whatever. Thats not the case.
Thats the only point I was trying to make on that.
AND I will say it again, the airline will inconvenience 1 or 2 people ALL DAY LONG in order to protect 100-200-300+ other passengers by getting crew into position. Ever see the lines at customer service when airplanes and crews get out of position due to weather or whatever? Thousands of people stranded for days on end... the airlines do everything possible in order to avoid that happening because its a nightmare.
Bullshit excuse... put the employees in a car and drive them, or reroute them on other flights.
They did not have to be to their location until tomorrow, it is these self absorbed airline employee that people are pissed about.
Digital_Damage
04-11-17, 07:51
It wouid be nice if they kept offering more cash. Not sure how the limit is set or if employees are empowered to increase it. It was a cluster for sure. But Doc was wrong.
This is part of what passes me off. He saw himself above the rules or the little people on the flight. He was more important than everyone else. I would have taken the vouchers.
I couldn't get the link to work on my phone. Background?
That's a Huge part of the problem here. We have a world full of people who feel they're owed something. It's a PR nightmare for sure. But why? Because Doc thinks he's entitled to special treatment. I'm glad he knows different. I would imagine airlines are giving their people the authority to raise limits. But that cuts both ways too. Now people may hold out for more.
I just watched the clip again. Oh my God. No. Oh look what you did to him. Bull $hit! The police reacted to his refusal to leave. That's how it works. It's really very simple. It's ugly but it's fair and it's legal. It just doesn't look great.
except the police placed the guy on leave and publicly stated he did not follow procedure...
horseman234
04-11-17, 07:55
Another tweet:
J.R. Salzman @jrsalzman 12h12 hours ago
In light of today's events, @united has slightly altered their flight attendant uniform to ensure total passenger compliance.
44967
It wouid be nice if they kept offering more cash. Not sure how the limit is set or if employees are empowered to increase it. It was a cluster for sure. But Doc was wrong.
This is part of what passes me off. He saw himself above the rules or the little people on the flight. He was more important than everyone else. I would have taken the vouchers.
I couldn't get the link to work on my phone. Background?
That's a Huge part of the problem here. We have a world full of people who feel they're owed something. It's a PR nightmare for sure. But why? Because Doc thinks he's entitled to special treatment. I'm glad he knows different. I would imagine airlines are giving their people the authority to raise limits. But that cuts both ways too. Now people may hold out for more.
I just watched the clip again. Oh my God. No. Oh look what you did to him. Bull $hit! The police reacted to his refusal to leave. That's how it works. It's really very simple. It's ugly but it's fair and it's legal. It just doesn't look great.
Did he feel he was owed something? Well, ****ing A he was owed something, he was owed a flight for which he paid. He wasn't a stowaway, he was there illegally, he didn't game the system. He held up the end of a contractual obligation ("I paid my fare, now I get to fly"); United (as does every other airline) dropped the ball and put their employees over a paying customer. And just why the **** were the cops called for what was a civil matter, not a criminal one?
So you are at a restaurant. You order the food. You get the bill, but no food, then told "sorry, too many people in line, come back tomorrow."
I agree the fact he was a physician is immaterial. We all have our story. But that isn't the issue.
I hope the only question that will remain will be "how many zeros on the end of the number on the check, Dr. Whateveryournameis?"
Seems United could have called an Uber for their employees and saved everyone a lot of trouble.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
If they can get the guy to the destination same day the federal max is 200% of ticket price paid or $675 whichever is lower. If they cant get the pax there same day its like 1350 or 400% of ticket price paid, whichever is lower, plus a hotel. So thats pretty much where the 600 and 1000 come from. Ive never seen it get higher than 1000, they usually cut it off and do denied boarding because it ends up being cheaper, especially on domestic cheap ass tickets. So if a person paid $200 for their ticket and was denied and got there same day they would only get $400 where if they volunteered they would get maybe $600. Same situation but stuck overnight that person would get $800 vs. maybe $1000... so again, better to volunteer.
"Federal Max" is a bit misleading above.
It's the max required compensation by the DOT. IE: the airline can chose to pay more, DOT won't care.
In this case, they did not go above $800, presumably due to the 400% policy in their contract.
But let's be clear, United screwed up... Bigtime...
1) it should have been handled prior to boarding. In fact the DOT FAR describes it in the context of boarding. Yes they technically have the right to bump seated passengers at will, but it's a pretty rare event to have to involuntarily select "volunteers"
2) there are exceptions for weight & balance issues, equipment changes, etc. None of those applied
3) the need to move staff is legit, but should have been known prior to boarding. This was not a day with huge weather events triggering last minute juggling of aircrew.
4) the selection process is not random, nor "last on first off". They indicate ticket price, checkin time and other factors are applied. United does not specifically mention it, but other airlines include loyalty membership and miles flown.
I expect this will trigger a reevaluation of policy for gate agents.
It should also trigger a closer look at overbooking algorithms, but won't.
This is one of those things where it is impossible to calculate the intangible impact of overbooking, but the paper cost of empty seats is easy to calculate and track. So the industry will continue to err on the side of paper costs.
Seems United could have called an Uber for their employees and saved everyone a lot of trouble.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
The flight was going to Louisville, that's, what, a 4 hour drive? United could have rented a car for them.
Another tweet: J.R. Salzman @jrsalzman 12h12 hours ago
In light of today's events, @united has slightly altered their flight attendant uniform to ensure total passenger compliance.
At least she didn't have her finger on the trigger!
I certainly feel less bad for him after reading that tweet and thankfully, he's taking some heat for it.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnTheCho/status/851527805129023488?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
No need to guess what may be his sexual preference.
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-11-17, 08:58
United is supposedly taking a huge hit in social media in China over this...
How the event was handled was very poor, the real issue is UA hiding behind legalities and twisted facts and not taking reposibility for it.
4) the selection process is not random, nor "last on first off". They indicate ticket price, checkin time and other factors are applied. United does not specifically mention it, but other airlines include loyalty membership and miles flown.
According to people on the plane "...United manager came on the plane and announced that passengers would be chosen at random."
If that is a fabrication on the part of the manager, that too will be a PR problem once it's sussed out he was not chosen at random. I do not believe for a second he was chosen due to being Asian, but if caught in a lie, people will not care and assume the worst.
United is supposedly taking a huge hit in social media in China over this...
How the event was handled was very poor, the real issue is UA hiding behind legalities and twisted facts and not taking reposibility for it.
Exactly. Don't give a damn if it was within policy or not.
The physician should look at the bright side. United is going to pay off any remaining student loan debt he has, and probably put his kids through college as well.
Cue the 1970's United Airlines commercial theme music: "Fly the friendly skies, of United...."
Oh, and I hate United Airlines with the passionate heat of a thousand burning suns.
That is all.
Another reason for me to not fly United.
A relative of mine flew a transpacific route on United a couple months ago and he said their service was very poor. Food was poor quality and not enough during the more than 10 hour flight.
Not sure why some claiming the man was not a doctor. He was it appears, and not exactly a stellar one at that with charges, etc. Fact is, don't care if he'd been the Pope or a gang banger, it's irreverent to this event. They had zero knowledge of who he was at the time. That he turns not to be a stellar human being has nadda to do with it.
Elizabethtown Doctor Indicted On 98 Drug Charges
http://www.wave3.com/story/4301599/elizabethtown-doctor-indicted-on-98-drug-charges
Also, from someone I know:
" As a former Airport LEO, there would have been no way in the world I would have gotten involved in this. Notice it was Chicago Aviation Security and not Chicago PD....? There is a reason CPD didn't jump in...."
United is supposedly taking a huge hit in social media in China over this...
.
Has it been confirmed what his ethnic background is? He looks Korean to me. Yes, I can say that.
Another reason for me to not fly United. A relative of mine flew a transpacific route on United a couple months ago and he said their service was very poor. Food was poor quality and not enough during the more than 10 hour flight.
I have done the same and did not experience what they said.
That sounds like a United Airlines staffing problem to me. They ultimately made the guy who scheduled that flight weeks or months in advance pay for their inability to manage their crew staffing inadequacies.
Yep. And not just one employee, but FOUR! I've seen an airline ask for a volunteer, but never four. The plane was already loaded and ready to go when the four employees showed up at the gate. Tough shit. Take a bus. Piss poor planning on the employees/airline's behalf.
I have done the same and did not experience what they said.
recently? we're talking about economy class, not business or first class. Neither I or my relative can afford to even dream about anything other than economy.
Yeah it's really simple. When you own something and you don't want me on it you can tell me to leave. If I don't leave and the police are called to remove me I don't win by continuing to have a temper tantrum. This guy is an MD! WTF! Time to grow up. Life ain't fair. Deal with it. Bitch and moan. Write letters and don't fly United again. Fighting with the police is a bad idea ! He is 100%!wrong. How would you like it if I walked into your business or even worse your back yard or house and refused to leave?
Your analogies are coming up short in one crucial category: the dude PAID for a ticket. They didn't just let him on there out of the goodness of their hearts. If some guy PAID you to be in your backyard and you told him to leave then there's that whole exchange of currency thing that has taken place well beforehand, and the guy didn't take a dump or otherwise foul your yard or act up, YOU just decided he needed to go so your friends could fit in there.
Yes, if you were the last person to check in.
And I wouldnt call it a screw up of the airline, just shit that goes on in any given day. Again, when you operate 1000+ airplanes, 5000 flights a day, with 20k crew members, shit happens, and the airline has to react to fix the situation. This is not an unusual situation. I bet it happened a few other times that day and most likely a few times today too, yet you didnt see anybody else get drug off by the cops.
Not. The. Passenger's. Problem.
recently? we're talking about economy class, not business or first class. Neither I or my relative can afford to even dream about anything other than economy.
Yes. But a sample of one, his or mine, means nothing. I fly 10-12 hour flights multiple times per year, but I don't sit in the cheap seats which may explain the difference.
Not. The. Passenger's. Problem.
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx
This, 100%.
Not endorsing the dragged-off guy's actions, but United's actions here are totally indefensible. If they can't get their crews to where they are needed without doing this, they are a total joke and should be shut down tomorrow.
It's not hard to book only the seats you have. I know that overbooking is normal in the airline industry, but in most other places it's a serious crime. Like if I write $10k of checks with a $9k balance in my account. Should I just tell the last person to deposit a check "oh, sorry, my checking account was overbooked, you'll have to wait"? Intentional overbooking should be treated as criminal fraud, with the penalties that is supposed to bring.
I think a lot of us are most tired of the incredibly one-sided nature of things. Airline passengers are treated about like convicted felons in prison, but if the airline does the most asinine and seemingly criminal things, it simply gets away with them.
The airlines have WAY too much power since 9-11, and they wield it arrogantly. Getting screwed on travel? Don't dare raise your voice or we will call the authoritahs.
Usually when an airline asked for volunteers to get off the plane and give your seat to another passenger, the airline would offer an incentive for you to get off. Of course on top of rebooking that passenger, he/she is given either cash compensation or frequent traveler's miles or free upgrade, even free ticket, etc. It's not free. Of course in this story, we do not know what United initially offered to give the passenger(s) as additional compensation to give up their seats. There is something that is worth physically fighting for. But a seat is not.
The airline handled it horribly wrong and they should pay for it.
The passenger could have used his brains and saved himself a busted mouth, teeth repair and other issues. Yeah, the money he'll get from the airline will be more than enough to pay for his busted mouth and he can afford to fly private in a Gulfstream anywhere after United settled.
I was thrown out of a United lounge once. I had their fancy miles card which allowed me to use their nice lounges. One lounge i was in had no food, just coffee and apples kinda deal. So I went to the food court, got a sandwich and came back. Sat at a table, got my lap top all set up and ready to relax and eat my sandwich.
Shortly after, dude comes up and tells me there's no food allowed in the lounge. I said it's not posted
He said does not matter, and I'll have to leave with the sandwich.
I responded I paid $500 per year for the card, they had no food to offer me, and I seriously could not sit and eat my sandwich with warning duly noted?
Dude says no, you'll have to leave.
So I packed up my stuff and left.
Called United and told them of the experience, told them to take card and shove it, and have not used United since. Luckily a much better airline (Copa) added direct flights to where i was going regularly. Cost a tad more, but great airline and worth it to not use United.
They suck balls.
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx
I know, we have all been told it's "legal", but we know it's not RIGHT. There is a huge difference between the two sometimes, and this happens to be one of those. UA is going to get hosed and they deserve it. No reason they couldn't have ground-transported those FOUR (I again emphasize that number) employees to Louisville if it was that important.
Grand58742
04-11-17, 10:15
http://www.volnation.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=130106&d=1491923167
When you are ordered to leave the plane and you refuse that's what happens. Ask. Advise. Order. Then it's time to go hands on and physically remove him. He escalated the situation. How else would you like them to remove him? The passenger didn't follow orders then cried like a child. He's no more important than the guy who works as a mechanic and needs to get home to fix people's cars. This is absolutely disgusting. He Broke The Law!
Broke what law?
This man paid for ticket, was checked in, and boarded. Then the airline decided their employee was more important than him and dragged him off when he didn't get up when they said they found some one they would rather have in the seat.
You think this is something he should be dragged off for?
Heres what should have happened, United should have gone 'Well no one is getting off, we'll have to find another way to move our employee's' You know, buy a ticket on another airline for them, put them on the bus, rent them a car. There are tons of choices that do not forcibly removing a passenger that you up until take off had told had a valid ticket.
Usually when an airline asked for volunteers to get off the plane and give your seat to another passenger, the airline would offer an incentive for you to get off. Of course on top of rebooking that passenger, he/she is given either cash compensation or frequent traveler's miles or free upgrade, even free ticket, etc. It's not free. Of course in this story, we do not know what United initially offered to give the passenger(s) as additional compensation to give up their seats. There is something that is worth physically fighting for. But a seat is not.
The airline handled it horribly wrong and they should pay for it.
The passenger could have used his brains and saved himself a busted mouth, teeth repair and other issues. Yeah, the money he'll get from the airline will be more than enough to pay for his busted mouth and he can afford to fly private in a Gulfstream anywhere after United settled.
Or, maybe pay for his legal fees:
http://www.wave3.com/story/4301599/elizabethtown-doctor-indicted-on-98-drug-charges
Broke what law?
This man paid for ticket, was checked in, and boarded. Then the airline decided their employee was more important than him and dragged him off when he didn't get up when they said they found some one they would rather have in the seat.
You think this is something he should be dragged off for?
Heres what should have happened, United should have gone 'Well no one is getting off, we'll have to find another way to move our employee's' You know, buy a ticket on another airline for them, put them on the bus, rent them a car. There are tons of choices that do not forcibly removing a passenger that you up until take off had told had a valid ticket.
C'mon man, that is really inconveniencing those employees. Why should they have to sit in a car or bus when they can fly there in an hour? Jeesh......:rolleyes:
You think this is something he should be dragged off for?
I thought he was dragged off after he resisted LEO and actually struck one of them, no? It might have gone a different way had he not done that.
Digital_Damage
04-11-17, 10:24
I was thrown out of a United lounge once. I had their fancy miles card which allowed me to use their nice lounges. One lounge i was in had no food, just coffee and apples kinda deal. So I went to the food court, got a sandwich and came back. Sat at a table, got my lap top all set up and ready to relax and eat my sandwich.
Shortly after, dude comes up and tells me there's no food allowed in the lounge. I said it's not posted
He said does not matter, and I'll have to leave with the sandwich.
I responded I paid $500 per year for the card, they had no food to offer me, and I seriously sit and eat my sandwich?
Dude says no, you'll have to leave.
So I packed up my stuff and left.
Called United and told them of the experience, told them to take card and shove it, and have not used United since. Luckily a much better airline (Copa) added direct flights to where i was going regularly. Cost a tad more, but great airline and worth it to not use United.
They suck balls.
that is funny because I had the same experience, Except they did have food and a bar. They more or less force you to eat of their menu and charge ridiculous prices for their food and drinks.
I told them I could not eat anything they offered since I was on a strict diet, guy just kept repeating "no out side food". So I left and canceled my miles reward card.
Or, maybe pay for his legal fees:
http://www.wave3.com/story/4301599/elizabethtown-doctor-indicted-on-98-drug-charges
That's the same guy?
I see these guys are called "Chicago Aviation Security". Are they badge-carrying LEO's or rent-a-cops?
Digital_Damage
04-11-17, 10:25
I thought he was dragged off after he resisted LEO and actually struck one of them, no? It might have gone a different way had he not done that.
guy did not strike anyone, the officer was the one grabbing and throwing him.
I thought he was dragged off after he resisted LEO and actually struck one of them, no?
Source? News to me
It might have gone a different way had he not done that.
Possible security (they were not CPD) may now claim he did, but there was no mention of that and passengers all saying he refused to get out of his chair, and was thus ripped from it. Whether he took a swing once they initiated I don't know, but have seen nothing mentioned so far.
I see these guys are called "Chicago Aviation Security". Are they badge-carrying LEO's or rent-a-cops?
I posted on that page before, #89
that is funny because I had the same experience, Except they did have food and a bar. They more or less force you to eat of their menu and charge ridiculous prices for their food and drinks.
I told them I could not eat anything they offered since I was on a strict diet, guy just kept repeating "no out side food". So I left and canceled my miles reward card.
And even that would have been OK. They had no food yet would not allow me to bring any in.
That's the same guy?
Apparently. Salt of the earth he aint, but they didn't know that, so Pope or gang banger, irreverent to this event:
http://nypost.com/2017/04/11/doctor-dragged-off-flight-convicted-of-trading-drugs-for-sex/
I posted on that page before, #89
Yeah I read that, but still not clear if these were actual deputized, badge-carrying, you-must-respect-muh-authoritahs LEO's or some sort of security rent-a-cops. IOW are they real cops?
I Googled it but didn't come up with an answer. I think they are employed by the city of Chicago's Department of Aviation, and they are not armed, soooo.........?????
Yeah I read that, but still not clear if these were actual deputized, badge-carrying, you-must-respect-muh-authoritahs LEO's or some sort of security rent-a-cops. IOW are they real cops?
I Googled it but didn't come up with an answer. I think they are employed by the city of Chicago's Department of Aviation, and they are not armed, soooo.........?????
Same dude who made that prior comment said they are one step above mall cop (his words not mine) so no love lost or respect from legit LEO so far.
Apparently. Salt of the earth he aint, but they didn't know that, so Pope or gang banger, irreverent to this event:
http://nypost.com/2017/04/11/doctor-dragged-off-flight-convicted-of-trading-drugs-for-sex/
But that partially explained his lack of coherent or logical thinking.
I see these guys are called "Chicago Aviation Security". Are they badge-carrying LEO's or rent-a-cops?
City of Chicago employee, job description says "Arrests and detains individuals found violating or suspected of violating city, state and federal laws, restraining individuals using handcuffs or other restraining devices" but does not report to CPD.
https://www.cityofchicago.org/content/dam/city/depts/dhr/supp_info/JobSpecifications/OperationConstruction/4200_Custodial_Series/4210_AVIATION_SECURITY_OFFICER.pdf
City of Chicago employee, job description says "Arrests and detains individuals found violating or suspected of violating city, state and federal laws, restraining individuals using handcuffs or other restraining devices" but does not report to CPD.
https://www.cityofchicago.org/content/dam/city/depts/dhr/supp_info/JobSpecifications/OperationConstruction/4200_Custodial_Series/4210_AVIATION_SECURITY_OFFICER.pdf
Kind of murky. Sounds like they have arrest powers, but also sound kinda like TSA (?).
Kind of murky. Sounds like they have arrest powers, but also sound kinda like TSA (?).
Given that they have arrest powers, resisting would probably apply?
I think I'm going to put UAs handling of this into the same category as wearing a dildo on your head to church. It may be legal, but it's still retarded.
This was a simple problem to solve with piles of readily available solutions. The fact that their employees and supposedly managers are incapable of solving without generating bad PR speaks volumes. If this is the caliber of person they employ I'm not surprised that they can't manage travel for their crews or count the number of seats on an airplane.
They needed to get 4 people 300 miles down the road. They offered what $800 in vouchers and got 3 solid volunteers. $2400. How much is a rental car for a day out of Chicago?? Pretty sure it ain't that much. So much for wanting to preserve cash flow in a low margin business.
Same goes for the good doctor. More brain power needed and less stupid.
I think I'm going to put UAs handling of this into the same category as wearing a dildo on your head to church. It may be legal, but it's still retarded.
This was a simple problem to solve with piles of readily available solutions. The fact that their employees and supposedly managers are incapable of solving without generating bad PR speaks volumes. If this is the caliber of person they employ I'm not surprised that they can't manage travel for their crews or count the number of seats on an airplane.
They needed to get 4 people 300 miles down the road. They offered what $800 in vouchers and got 3 solid volunteers. $2400. How much is a rental car for a day out of Chicago?? Pretty sure it ain't that much. So much for wanting to preserve cash flow in a low margin business.
Same goes for the good doctor. More brain power needed and less stupid.
Last I looked, stock down like 800 million.
Mid morning UAL was down 5.5% over yesterday close.
That's roughly $1.2B in market capitalization lost, sportsfans.
It's come back a bit, and may recover a bit more. But any negative event that moves a major corporation's stock 5-6% in under 24 hours is not good.
BoringGuy45
04-11-17, 11:33
Okay, so this guy was told to leave the plane, and I'm assuming they probably were simply bumping him to a later flight, and would have likely offered free vouchers for a later flight. So, I can assume that it wasn't like they told him to get off the plane, no refund, have a nice walk home. Because that's illegal. And since this guy was convicted of selling drugs for sex, he probably was a doctor only in the sense that he went to medical school (that is, he didn't have an important, life-saving surgery to get to). And yet, he's raising holy hell and physically resisting removal from the plane, simply because he wants to get home NOW!
As I see it, both United and this douchenozzle are in the wrong. United is notorious for being a soup sandwich in terms of how they run their plane. And yeah, when someone pays a few hundred dollars for a flight that is to begin at a certain time and date (barring weather or mechanical delays), it's pretty shitty to force them to take a later flight. But that said, shit happens. I think rjacobs gave a good explanation of how stuff like this happens.
But this asshole's behavior is inexcusable. This is toddler behavior! If you're pissed at the airline, be civil. Get off the plane, speak to any management on the premises, write to the company, write reviews blasting them and their poor customer service. I am so sick of this entitlement: When I want something, I want it now, nobody is allowed to tell me what to do ever, and wherever I go, I'm in charge.
United does suck, but I have little sympathy for this big baby.
SomeOtherGuy
04-11-17, 11:46
Okay, so this guy was told to leave the plane, and I'm assuming they probably were simply bumping him to a later flight, and would have likely offered free vouchers for a later flight. So, I can assume that it wasn't like they told him to get off the plane, no refund, have a nice walk home. Because that's illegal. And since this guy was convicted of selling drugs for sex, he probably was a doctor only in the sense that he went to medical school (that is, he didn't have an important, life-saving surgery to get to). And yet, he's raising holy hell and physically resisting removal from the plane, simply because he wants to get home NOW!
Supposedly the guy had volunteered when he thought it was a later flight that day, then retracted when he learned it would be the next day.
The guy has convictions but is apparently still licensed and legal to practice, despite those convictions. Could be a shortage of doctors there or really good lawyering, who knows.
Clearly the guy has made a number of bad decisions in his life, if you read the various tabloid stories.
However, none of that changes that UA deserves an F- grade for their handling of the situation.
I think UA could have handled their employee transportation in 10 other ways for less money than the $3200 + 4 hotel stays they were already offering. Now it looks like they got their employees to Louisville for the low, low price of between $800M and $1.2B. Awesome guys.
A bigly bold move
http://www.duffelblog.com/2017/04/pentagon-awards-contract-united-airlines-forcibly-remove-assad/
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
A few years ago on the way home from vacation in the DR United asked us if we were willing to volunteer to get bumped off of our flight in exchange for a $400 voucher each. The catch, the flight would be 2 hours earlier and to JFK and not Newark. Luckily my parents who are supposed to pick us up were already in Brooklyn, 25min from JFK. The new flight was leaving in 20 minutes. Called them, they said no problem. Grabbed the vouchers and security ushered us past all the lines and onto the flight. Used the vouchers to buy tickets for our flight to the DR next year. Done.
Was it really that important to stay in that seat that he had to make that much of a stink?
Given that they have arrest powers, resisting would probably apply?
TSA can "detain" you until the real cops arrive, so isn't that detention a form of arrest? No one argues that TSA aren't real LEO's, sounds like this crew may fall into the same gray area (?).
Grand58742
04-11-17, 12:13
Twitter is having a blast with this one.
https://twitter.com/42_Sandman/status/851832775292452866
SomeOtherGuy
04-11-17, 12:15
#UnitedWillNotDivideUs
http://gizmodo.com/lets-boycott-united-airlines-1794174586
Lefty / millennial slant, but this isn't exactly the first bad thing UA has done lately.
Did anyone see another passenger's cell phone video of the whackadoodlequack doctor got loose from the airport security? he ran back on the plane babbling something like "i wanna go home, i gotta go home" . I think he was on one of those drugs he used to trade for sex. BTW, what kind of doctor would be flying in a pair of Walmart sweatpants???? You know only professional athletes fly in sweats.
Grand58742
04-11-17, 12:29
Did anyone see another passenger's cell phone video of the whackadoodlequack doctor got loose from the airport security? he ran back on the plane babbling something like "i wanna go home, i gotta go home" . I think he was on one of those drugs he used to trade for sex. BTW, what kind of doctor would be flying in a pair of Walmart sweatpants???? You know only professional athletes fly in sweats.
Gotta remember, United has a strict dress code for boarding as well.
Grand58742
04-11-17, 12:39
I'd bet the CEO took notice of this:
http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/11/investing/united-airlines-stock-passenger-flight-video/index.html
United Continental Holdings (UAL) weathered the initial waves of anger caused by the video on Monday, with shares closing with a 0.9% gain. But momentum shifted by Tuesday morning.
Earlier in the day, the stock was even lower, knocking off close to $1 billion off the company's market value. By the afternoon, the stock had recovered from the worst losses -- but its market value was still off by $600 million.
Half a billion dollars loss in a single day should be getting someone's attention.
Gotta remember, United has a strict dress code for boarding as well.
That is only for nonrevenue friends and family.
I said it earlier. This guy is no better than the people who block the highway in protest. Arrest them all! Yes as has been explained by people in this thread who know how the system works United Screwed up.
Bullshit excuse... put the employees in a car and drive them, or reroute them on other flights.
They did not have to be to their location until tomorrow, it is these self absorbed airline employee that people are pissed about.
That would have been a much better decision.
except the police placed the guy on leave and publicly stated he did not follow procedure... Someone stated they might not be cops. I did not know that. We don't have that information here so I don't know what to say. If he violated policy that's going to be an issue. If it was in my area that would have been a good arrest. If a security guard did that in my area that would be a serious issue. We will have to see how that sugars off.
Did he feel he was owed something? Well, ****ing A he was owed something, he was owed a flight for which he paid. He wasn't a stowaway, he was there illegally, he didn't game the system. He held up the end of a contractual obligation ("I paid my fare, now I get to fly"); United (as does every other airline) dropped the ball and put their employees over a paying customer. And just why the **** were the cops called for what was a civil matter, not a criminal one?
So you are at a restaurant. You order the food. You get the bill, but no food, then told "sorry, too many people in line, come back tomorrow."
I agree the fact he was a physician is immaterial. We all have our story. But that isn't the issue.
I hope the only question that will remain will be "how many zeros on the end of the number on the check, Dr. Whateveryournameis?"
Trespassing and failing to follow the crews instructions were the crimes and or violations the Doc made. Yup you can make me leave your property any time you want. The fact that I have a ticket to ride does not change that. I am sure if you read the fine print on the ticket it is very clearly spelled out. He recourse should have been civil. It does not matter that he does not agree with the decision. It is not his decision to make. It's not his plane. When asked to leave you gotta leave.
Your analogies are coming up short in one crucial category: the dude PAID for a ticket. They didn't just let him on there out of the goodness of their hearts. If some guy PAID you to be in your backyard and you told him to leave then there's that whole exchange of currency thing that has taken place well beforehand, and the guy didn't take a dump or otherwise foul your yard or act up, YOU just decided he needed to go so your friends could fit in there.
No they made him leave so they could move their flight crews to another location so they could keep their planes flying.
Broke what law?
This man paid for ticket, was checked in, and boarded. Then the airline decided their employee was more important than him and dragged him off when he didn't get up when they said they found some one they would rather have in the seat.
You think this is something he should be dragged off for?
Heres what should have happened, United should have gone 'Well no one is getting off, we'll have to find another way to move our employee's' You know, buy a ticket on another airline for them, put them on the bus, rent them a car. There are tons of choices that do not forcibly removing a passenger that you up until take off had told had a valid ticket.
No he should have left the plane. When he refused he was dragged off like a toddler. Yup United screwed up and they've taken a huge hit in the market.
Apparently. Salt of the earth he aint, but they didn't know that, so Pope or gang banger, irreverent to this event:
http://nypost.com/2017/04/11/doctor-dragged-off-flight-convicted-of-trading-drugs-for-sex/
At the time of the incident his history was not known. It does show a pattern of his being a dumb ass.
"Doctor dragged off United flight was felon who traded prescription drugs for secret gay sex with patient half his age and took them himself - and he needed anger management, was 'not forthright' and had control issues, psychiatrist found
Dr David Dao's troubled medical past is revealed in court documents
His wife Teresa - also a doctor - reported him to medical authorities and his secret inappropriate gay relationship with a patient was revealed
Father of five, 69, was convicted of a felony - but avoided prison time - because he was giving the man prescription drugs in return for gay sex
He denied the gay sex even though he was caught on camera shirtless and in his pants with Brian Case, his lover, 26, who was a fellow worshiper at his church
Case said he believed that Dao wanted to hook him on prescription narcotics including Oxycontin so he would keep coming to him for gay sex
Psychiatrist found he had series of issues including lacking 'the foundation to navigate difficult situations'
One doctor wrote that he 'he would unilaterally chose to do his own thing'
He only got his licence back after agreeing to be drug tested and polygraphed
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4401980/Dr-dragged-United-swapped-drugs-secret-gay-sex.html#ixzz4dxpqxFMu
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook"
Same dude who made that prior comment said they are one step above mall cop (his words not mine) so no love lost or respect from legit LEO so far.
It would change things if they do not have arrest powers.
I think I'm going to put UAs handling of this into the same category as wearing a dildo on your head to church. It may be legal, but it's still retarded.
This was a simple problem to solve with piles of readily available solutions. The fact that their employees and supposedly managers are incapable of solving without generating bad PR speaks volumes. If this is the caliber of person they employ I'm not surprised that they can't manage travel for their crews or count the number of seats on an airplane.
They needed to get 4 people 300 miles down the road. They offered what $800 in vouchers and got 3 solid volunteers. $2400. How much is a rental car for a day out of Chicago?? Pretty sure it ain't that much. So much for wanting to preserve cash flow in a low margin business.
Same goes for the good doctor. More brain power needed and less stupid.
TAZ you win the internet today. That's freaking hilarious and true.
Okay, so this guy was told to leave the plane, and I'm assuming they probably were simply bumping him to a later flight, and would have likely offered free vouchers for a later flight. So, I can assume that it wasn't like they told him to get off the plane, no refund, have a nice walk home. Because that's illegal. And since this guy was convicted of selling drugs for sex, he probably was a doctor only in the sense that he went to medical school (that is, he didn't have an important, life-saving surgery to get to). And yet, he's raising holy hell and physically resisting removal from the plane, simply because he wants to get home NOW!
As I see it, both United and this douchenozzle are in the wrong. United is notorious for being a soup sandwich in terms of how they run their plane. And yeah, when someone pays a few hundred dollars for a flight that is to begin at a certain time and date (barring weather or mechanical delays), it's pretty shitty to force them to take a later flight. But that said, shit happens. I think rjacobs gave a good explanation of how stuff like this happens.
But this asshole's behavior is inexcusable. This is toddler behavior! If you're pissed at the airline, be civil. Get off the plane, speak to any management on the premises, write to the company, write reviews blasting them and their poor customer service. I am so sick of this entitlement: When I want something, I want it now, nobody is allowed to tell me what to do ever, and wherever I go, I'm in charge.
United does suck, but I have little sympathy for this big baby.
Well said.
Did the Doc get arrested? I saw video of him getting back on the plane after being blodied up and mumbling kill me and I have to get home. If no arrest was made after a use of force that would not be good.
A few years ago on the way home from vacation in the DR United asked us if we were willing to volunteer to get bumped off of our flight in exchange for a $400 voucher each. The catch, the flight would be 2 hours earlier and to JFK and not Newark. Luckily my parents who are supposed to pick us up were already in Brooklyn, 25min from JFK. The new flight was leaving in 20 minutes. Called them, they said no problem. Grabbed the vouchers and security ushered us past all the lines and onto the flight. Used the vouchers to buy tickets for our flight to the DR next year. Done.
Was it really that important to stay in that seat that he had to make that much of a stink?
For me it would. Those vouchers better be in the form of crisp bills because if I'm flying it's because I have no other choice and must get from A to B. Like funeral in another country. Otherwise I drive or don't go. So a voucher wouldn't do me any good, the next plane ride may be in 50 years
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Digital_Damage
04-11-17, 13:07
Mid morning UAL was down 5.5% over yesterday close.
That's roughly $1.2B in market capitalization lost, sportsfans.
It's come back a bit, and may recover a bit more. But any negative event that moves a major corporation's stock 5-6% in under 24 hours is not good.
The corporate travel accounts for several large DoD contractors are also being canceled with them. All my flights for the next few months were reissued on other airlines. I imagine the more lib companies are too, this is a shit storm for United. I don't see the CEO surviving this.
Grand58742
04-11-17, 13:08
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17634735_911615672311790_6609779734245847508_n.jpg?oh=c71e41f228ec58b48367685987bb66b6&oe=595603E7
Digital_Damage
04-11-17, 13:08
For me it would. Those vouchers better be in the form of crisp bills because if I'm flying it's because I have no other choice and must get from A to B. Like funeral in another country. Otherwise I drive or don't go. So a voucher wouldn't do me any good, the next plane ride may be in 50 years
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
the vouchers are shit "here is a $50 voucher good for one checked bag"... fing joke.
Digital_Damage
04-11-17, 13:09
LOL! nice!
United owns the planes ! so much like you removing someone from your business !
he bought a ticket read the fine print !
they offered him his money back !
United did not forcefully remove him the cops did !
is it messed up ? yeah big time is it some huge law breaking thing ? not sure about that everyone sues everyone settles but this might be tougher to sue for since he had a contract/ticket and again this happens all the time
remember that wacky lady recently who went on a tantrum over trump voter sitting next to her and she was booted !
agree they should just up the $ till they get 4 folks to step forward
but at the same time if a business has something you bought and came to pickup and they said sorry we are out here is your money back and you cry and whine they are under no obligation to pay you MORE than you payed originally and can exercise that right and they did
funny how many are crying foul play against United when it was the police that did this not United !
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17634735_911615672311790_6609779734245847508_n.jpg?oh=c71e41f228ec58b48367685987bb66b6&oe=595603E7
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170411/4bfb03af6638a11234708d88b528f057.jpg
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
United owns the planes ! so much like you removing someone from your business !
he bought a ticket read the fine print !
they offered him his money back !
United did not forcefully remove him the cops did !
is it messed up ? yeah big time is it some huge law breaking thing ? not sure about that everyone sues everyone settles but this might be tougher to sue for since he had a contract/ticket and again this happens all the time
remember that wacky lady recently who went on a tantrum over trump voter sitting next to her and she was booted !
agree they should just up the $ till they get 4 folks to step forward
but at the same time if a business has something you bought and came to pickup and they said sorry we are out here is your money back and you cry and whine they are under no obligation to pay you MORE than you payed originally and can exercise that right and they did
funny how many are crying foul play against United when it was the police that did this not United !
They did it at United's behest, which was made worse by their CEO's cockamamie excuses. Then they violated several policies regarding how to treat those situations. All so a man can make it to his heart transplant; wait, no.... all so a woman can make it to her dying mother's bed; wait, that's not it.... all so some employs can deadhead to Louisville. They are culpable.
Screw United. I hope they go belly up.
Edited to add, the dude showed some serious lack of SA. But that doesn't make him wrong.
Digital_Damage
04-11-17, 13:17
United owns the planes ! so much like you removing someone from your business !
he bought a ticket read the fine print !
they offered him his money back !
United did not forcefully remove him the cops did !
is it messed up ? yeah big time is it some huge law breaking thing ? not sure about that everyone sues everyone settles but this might be tougher to sue for since he had a contract/ticket and again this happens all the time
remember that wacky lady recently who went on a tantrum over trump voter sitting next to her and she was booted !
agree they should just up the $ till they get 4 folks to step forward
but at the same time if a business has something you bought and came to pickup and they said sorry we are out here is your money back and you cry and whine they are under no obligation to pay you MORE than you payed originally and can exercise that right and they did
funny how many are crying foul play against United when it was the police that did this not United !
WTF... either you have not been keeping up or just obtuse.
**** United,
They did it at United's behest, which was made worse by their CEO's cockamamie excuses. Then they violated several policies regarding how to treat those situations. All so a man can make it to his heart transplant; wait, no.... all so a woman can make it to her dying mother's bed; wait, that's not it.... all so some employs can deadhead to Louisville. They are culpable.
Screw United. I hope they go belly up.
Edited to add, the dude showed some serious lack of SA. But that doesn't make him wrong.
WTF... either you have not been keeping up or just obtuse.
**** United,
Quoted for truffs. **** United
my dad retired over 30 years ago United pilot
my uncle was a pilot my cousin was a pilot
I designed the UI system that all the airlines used for HR and used to meet every couple months with all the high ups of all the majors and travel a ton
it used to be a real fun thing and the people who travelled and ran the companies back in the 70s and late 80s were awesome
ironic the industry was growing at almost %40 before the gov stepped in to deregulate by the 90s over 100k jobs were being lost !
brought to you buy a democrat !! cause the airlines needed to be controlled by the gov and sadly voted in by both sides !!!!
and like anything they touch and think they need to control they destroyed it !
sadly airline travel is just a expensive bus these days controlled by a out of control gov !
and the people that work and run the business to the gov standards are not what it used to be !
the people traveling are not what they used to be !
the airport experience these days sucks beyond belief again thanks big gov !
basically most people are self absorbed jerks these days on both sides and in general and this is the outcome !
I can only imagine how bad it is to ride on a bus these days :)
Grand58742
04-11-17, 13:30
http://i64.tinypic.com/2eq6uts.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR9LcQZT6g8D177VF1_bWcWRaKgewWQzU0xOT6bL0_0nXSHYisf
I doubt they said hey go smack the guys face against the seat when he refuses !
again when you see a video of a guy on a traffic stop that he was breaking the law and refuses the police what happens to him ?
if someone was asked to leave a store and they refuse what happens to him ?
yeah the CEO sucks and is a idiot and in this case the police did act poorly !
the guy was in the wrong sadly because he signed HE SIGNED a boarding pass that had the rules and he was to stupid to read them and realize airlines can do this !!
will he sue ? sure win who knows
settle yeah most likely United will
I love the people who only want to cry freedom when it effects them and what they THINK they are entitled to :) hahahahaha
They did it at United's behest, which was made worse by their CEO's cockamamie excuses. Then they violated several policies regarding how to treat those situations. All so a man can make it to his heart transplant; wait, no.... all so a woman can make it to her dying mother's bed; wait, that's not it.... all so some employs can deadhead to Louisville. They are culpable.
Screw United. I hope they go belly up.
Edited to add, the dude showed some serious lack of SA. But that doesn't make him wrong.
Digital_Damage
04-11-17, 13:48
I doubt they said hey go smack the guys face against the seat when he refuses !
again when you see a video of a guy on a traffic stop that he was breaking the law and refuses the police what happens to him ?
if someone was asked to leave a store and they refuse what happens to him ?
yeah the CEO sucks and is a idiot and in this case the police did act poorly !
the guy was in the wrong sadly because he signed HE SIGNED a boarding pass that had the rules and he was to stupid to read them and realize airlines can do this !!
will he sue ? sure win who knows
settle yeah most likely United will
I love the people who only want to cry freedom when it effects them and what they THINK they are entitled to :) hahahahaha
Except united's own rules state they can bump you before boarding not after....
Think they are entitled? Let me sell you something then tell you to get the **** out of my store and take what I sold you and keep the money in exchange for store coupons that can only be used the next day and see how you react.
**** United... the whole company is shit. Especially their shitty HR system.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170411/4bfb03af6638a11234708d88b528f057.jpg
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
https://giphy.com/gifs/how-united-incident-nrQ14i7MyGPYs?utm_source=media-link&utm_medium=landing&utm_campaign=Media%20Links&utm_term=https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/new/
I doubt they said hey go smack the guys face against the seat when he refuses !
again when you see a video of a guy on a traffic stop that he was breaking the law and refuses the police what happens to him ?
if someone was asked to leave a store and they refuse what happens to him ?
yeah the CEO sucks and is a idiot and in this case the police did act poorly !
the guy was in the wrong sadly because he signed HE SIGNED a boarding pass that had the rules and he was to stupid to read them and realize airlines can do this !!
will he sue ? sure win who knows
settle yeah most likely United will
I love the people who only want to cry freedom when it effects them and what they THINK they are entitled to :) hahahahaha
It's not entitlement. He had a ticket. It's not even first-come-first-serve.
If someone is told to leave a store after buying a shirt, and told to leave the shirt, tomorrow you'll get another shirt of a different color and style, yeah, there's a problem.
I like how the one guy who got beat for not giving up his paid for seat is an asshole but the other 60 or so passengers that didn't want to give up their paid for seats get a pass...
I haven't flown in a long time and won't unless I absolutely have to. But I'll be damned if I'd even consider United as option.
**** those assholes.
#****UNITED
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
United Airlines CEO is Oscar Munoz- I don't know about you but that sounds Mexican. If we had a wall, this would not have happened.
Except united's own rules state they can bump you before boarding not after....
Actually, I don't believe that is correct, but if you cite the actual text or link to it I would appreciate it. And not the whole Contract for Carriage, just the part that says what you said.
I know they can bump you for weight and balance issues.
United Airlines CEO is Oscar Munoz- I don't know about you but that sounds Mexican. If we had a wall, this would not have happened.
But he has Airplanes. He can fly over the wall. The wall will not stop him.
He is like an unstoppable Mexican God.
United Airlines CEO is Oscar Munoz- I don't know about you but that sounds Mexican. If we had a wall, this would not have happened.
Easy enough to find out: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=oscar+munoz+place+of+birth
Oscar Munoz
Chief Executive Officer of United Airlines
Oscar Munoz is an American businessman. He was named President and Chief Executive Officer of United Airlines on September 8, 2015. Wikipedia
Born: 1960, California
Nationality: American
Alma maters: University of Southern California (B.S., 1982), Pepperdine University (M.B.A., 1986)
I like how the one guy who got beat for not giving up his paid for seat is an asshole but the other 60 or so passengers that didn't want to give up their paid for seats get a pass...
I haven't flown in a long time and won't unless I absolutely have to. But I'll be damned if I'd even consider United as option.
**** those assholes.
#****UNITED
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
This is where I'm at.
Sure it's a flying bus. But if I have a bus ticket and it's paid for I expect the bus to take me where I need to go. If they ask for volunteers and get nobody, they need to up the ante. When they get to paid 5 star hotel with complimentary lap dancer I might take their offer.
Everybody has a "Falling Down" point. Looks like they found his. No doubt he should have just taken the s*** sandwich like someone else does every day from the big guy with the legal fine print.
Being legal isn't the same as being right. Being pulled off a plane for anything less than an emergency is BS, and should have been avoidable. They really couldn't have taken care of bumping people BEFORE THE ENTIRE PLANE WAS BOARDED? It doesn't take a customer service guru to understand how much better it would be to bump someone at check-in or at the gate than from the seat.
rjacobs claims it happens every day, to me it sounds like they are fine just pushing customers around instead of fixing a problem. That's a command climate problem to me and they deserve all the bad PR they are getting.
Also, LEO (if they were) should have assessed the situation better. If it was me I would have called for a supervisor. And maybe have the plane emptied before going hands on.
For me it would. Those vouchers better be in the form of crisp bills because if I'm flying it's because I have no other choice and must get from A to B. Like funeral in another country. Otherwise I drive or don't go. So a voucher wouldn't do me any good, the next plane ride may be in 50 years
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Can't argue with that. We go to the DR every winter so I knew the $800 in vouchers would almost pay for both our tickets next year. We had to also use them within one year, wasn't a problem either since we would always go around the same time. Plus, in my case I didn't have to wait in the security screening line and got home earlier. It was a no brainer for us but I understand how it would be a problem for others. This was also done in the terminal, while we were on line waiting to check into the flight, not on the plane. Either way, sometimes you have to act like a man and get up when you are being told to.
When they get to paid 5 star hotel with complimentary lap dancer I might take their offer.
Not quite, but almost: Not long after I was married my wife and I flew Continental to Houston to visit family. On the way back to NC, they asked for volunteers. No one bit. They kept upping the ante, we got first class the next day, two $500 vouchers, a the Marriott by the airport, dinner, breakfast, and a Continental club pass for the airport the next day with two $20 vouchers. We acted like we were ****ing royalty.
I prefer to driver over flying, but I am taking a son to Baltimore in June for an Orioles game, and we scored awesome deals with Southwest.
Everybody has a "Falling Down" point. Looks like they found his. No doubt he should have just taken the s*** sandwich like someone else does every day from the big guy with the legal fine print.
Being legal isn't the same as being right. Being pulled off a plane for anything less than an emergency is BS, and should have been avoidable. They really couldn't have taken care of bumping people BEFORE THE ENTIRE PLANE WAS BOARDED? It doesn't take a customer service guru to understand how much better it would be to bump someone at check-in or at the gate than from the seat.
rjacobs claims it happens every day, to me it sounds like they are fine just pushing customers around instead of fixing a problem. That's a command climate problem to me and they deserve all the bad PR they are getting.
Also, LEO (if they were) should have assessed the situation better. If it was me I would have called for a supervisor. And maybe have the plane emptied before going hands on.
I mentioned that earlier. It seems to be lost on some folks around here.
The second bolded part? Absolutely correct.
I said it earlier. This guy is no better than the people who block the highway in protest. Arrest them all!
Really? False equivilance.
Protesters broke the law setting foot on the highway. Doc was invited on the plane with a valid business contract to be carried point A to point B.
Protesters had no one to blame, they triggered the event. Doc did not create the root cause (overbooking plus a staff logistics problem)
Doc had just a small % of responsibility to solve the problem. Airline had 100%, and once they forced it to the passengers doc still only had 1/300th of responsibility to free up a seat.
This whole thing is 100% in the airline's control as they:
-Set the overbooking threshold
-Set the policy on getting staff to cities
-Control the logistics on who needs to be where
-Set the policy on how to comp displaced "volunteers"
-Control how they present the situation to passengers (Angry gate agent: "this plane is not leaving until 4 people getting off")
-set gate agent policy on how to handle situations when passengers refuse to be volunteered
Not assault, and gate agent is not crew. Might have a chance with your trespassing play. May win the battle, lose the (PR) war.
My bet is we'll see another incident in the next 6 mths. Over 500k passengers bumped each year in the US.
By the way, the CEO was brought in to fix the thousands of small things that were broken in UAL. He now has another one to add to his list.
Eurodriver
04-11-17, 14:57
The corporate travel accounts for several large DoD contractors are also being canceled with them. All my flights for the next few months were reissued on other airlines. I imagine the more lib companies are too, this is a shit storm for United. I don't see the CEO surviving this.
But aren't you reading M4C?
It's totally legal. Someone needs to tell those companies as long as its legal, or someone was a criminal 13 years ago and wears sweats you can beat their ass to get off the plane. The repercussions can't be real - because it was legal.
Like Jimmy Kimmel said - imagine getting asked to leave at a restaurant you had already sat down and ordered - and you hadn't even paid yet.
Oops!
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/uniteds-real-mistake-173844672.html
The Transportation Department says airlines must “give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and explaining how the carrier decides who gets on an oversold flight and who doesn’t.” There’s no evidence United did that.
So basically because they didn't want to cancel a flight in Louisville and allegedly didn't bother to follow government regulations, they lost about $500M in market value overnight, who knows how many future bookings, plus they may get fined for violating federal regulations AND get sued by the guy they violated. The only real question at this point is was it worth it?
Anyone who flies these days recognizes that airlines are flying at 95+% capacity. That's because they intentionally overbook, knowing a certain percentage will be no shows. When everyone shows up, they have to take volunteers and rebook on the next oversold flight. It's all factored into the bottom line.
By the way, the CEO was brought in to fix the thousands of small things that were broken in UAL. He now has another one to add to his list.
The poor fella had a heart transplant a few years ago. He may need a new one before it's all over with.....
I saw that United stock has dived. The video went viral, and because the dude is Asian, every Chinaman in China has one hung low over the event. It seems that the Chinese buy a lot of airline tickets. Anyway, United will have to hire an evangelical preacher like Jimmy Swagart to cry on tv like he did when he got caught with his pants down 20 years ago. Only then will the world forgive United. But as dumb as United is, they may even hire Alabama's deposed governor and his female assistant to be their spokespersons.
well then you do not shop at that store :)
I don't fly anymore ! I refuse to I will drive instead even across country unless I go back home then I have no choice :)
again I never said it was a good situation but its reality dealing with airlines these days ? which sadly do suck and the CEO suck etc...
how many times are pax stuck on the ramps and issues every day EVERYDAY overbooking happens etc.. this is not some new thing !
haahaha I never wrote the HR system for them they outsourced it to a company then that company outsourced to my design company and I was only the UI designer ;) hahahahahah so you can hate me for what my business did 20 years ago cause a company hired me and united hired that company over what some other guy did recently ?
LOL !!!!!!
Except united's own rules state they can bump you before boarding not after....
Think they are entitled? Let me sell you something then tell you to get the **** out of my store and take what I sold you and keep the money in exchange for store coupons that can only be used the next day and see how you react.
**** United... the whole company is shit. Especially their shitty HR system.
SomeOtherGuy
04-11-17, 15:35
This whole incident is all over bookface, with people I would have expected to be on United's side instead absolutely furious at UA. I think the PR hit is going to be far worse than it appears now, and the stock slide is going to increase. The CEO will be gone inside of 2 weeks. Those are my 2-cent fearless predictions.
Repeating that the guy dragged off made multiple bad decisions, here are some legal-side observations:
-Chicago and Cook County tends to be very friendly to plaintiffs and minorities. The involvement of local business UA and local security police (what exactly are they?) could mitigate this, but probably won't change it much.
-Dragged-off-guy has potential claims under 42 USC 1983 and general civil rights laws.
-He might also have claims under elder abuse, disabilities law and/or ADA depending on his health situation, state law on point and how creative his lawyer can be.
-His own criminal record obviously hurts his position, but probably won't be enough here to save UA from paying out.
I expect the guy will get a confidential settlement from UA fairly quickly along with a repeated public apology and some meaningless blather about human dignity and how much UA loves their passengers.
UA's CEO will be replaced by some politically connected type who will appoint a "passenger rights coordinator" or something to occupy a corner office and earn $400k/year while being a glorified marketing worker.
Airlines will be more careful about this kind of thing for 6-12 months and then go back to business as usual, or worse than today's BAU given how everything airline related always get worse over time.
It's not entitlement. He had a ticket. It's not even first-come-first-serve.
He's "entitled" to not be attacked and ejected when he fails to "volunteer" to be stuck 'till the next day before leaving because United screwed up and made a crappy situation into FUBAR.
It's not entitlement. He had a ticket. It's not even first-come-first-serve.
------------------
SeriousStudent
04-11-17, 15:51
FYI to everyone - racial slurs are not appreciated at M4C. A person's race better not become a topic.
as a CEO my policy would be if people do not give up their seat just state these 4 pax need to leave or we cancel the flight !
that would be interesting to watch mob mentality against those people then :) hahahahah
instead some dumb security guard played rambo ?
UA said remove them its the idiocy of the people removing that caused the problem and should be held to blame the most
again YES its stupid policy and major screw up but it happens DAILY all over with over booking treating people like crap refusing bathrooms on ramp delays and so on
yet people keep flying !
now UA will take a hit lay off a bunch of people to make up for it ?
so the guy being a jerk got maybe 100's of people laid off and out of work and praise from liberal types
over a companies crappy policy that he seemed to be OK with knowing over booking and such exist
if those other employees did not connect then 100s more would have been out of a flight etc.. but who care about those people its all about ME !!!!!
again dont fly companies that do this !
I quit buying from companies that are anti gun etc..
sure the security is somehow connected to the airport connected to some gov idiocy in some ways like TSA
Looks like Hitler has been informed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=6HT_C7PeU4E
This is going to make https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Breaks_Guitars look cheap by comparison!
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-11-17, 17:18
#unitedbreaksguitars #unitedbreaksdoctors
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-11-17, 17:28
Just got off the phone with United CS. I am flying to New Orleans in October and purchased my United flight for my wife and I a few months ago. I asked what kind of assurance they can give me that they will not treat me like the man in the video. The CS Agent said they have a new company policy that they will not overbook flights. Hmmmm...we'll see.
New narrative. "Truly horrific".
so the UA guy has a history convicted of felony charges :) hahahahahaha
I guess some guy in AZ in another car did not want to give up his seat :) pretty sure the poor guy just wanted to get home ! cause they kept yelling homie ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYx0cc2sYO8
Back again to say if you can spend a few hundred bucks to fly, round trip, like a greek god in a chariot in the sky without crashing and burning in a miserable fiery death where this massive vessel starts spiraling and tossing people around as prayers to a cold, uncaring God for salvation go ignored, as some pilots with families scramble frantically to right the plane as the last words they hear are WOOP-WOOP--PULL UP. WOOP-WOOP--PULL UP. MINIMALS. MINIMALS. WOOP-WOOP--PULL UP from an eerily calm, monotone robotic, disembodied female voice......
.....then maybe, you should all look on the bright side. I can wait another day. You all volunteered when you signed up.
Pop a mentos and enjoy your layover.
Just say'n
Digital_Damage
04-11-17, 18:01
as a CEO my policy would be if people do not give up their seat just state these 4 pax need to leave or we cancel the flight !
that would be interesting to watch mob mentality against those people then :) hahahahah
instead some dumb security guard played rambo ?
UA said remove them its the idiocy of the people removing that caused the problem and should be held to blame the most
again YES its stupid policy and major screw up but it happens DAILY all over with over booking treating people like crap refusing bathrooms on ramp delays and so on
yet people keep flying !
now UA will take a hit lay off a bunch of people to make up for it ?
so the guy being a jerk got maybe 100's of people laid off and out of work and praise from liberal types
over a companies crappy policy that he seemed to be OK with knowing over booking and such exist
if those other employees did not connect then 100s more would have been out of a flight etc.. but who care about those people its all about ME !!!!!
again dont fly companies that do this !
I quit buying from companies that are anti gun etc..
sure the security is somehow connected to the airport connected to some gov idiocy in some ways like TSA
FYI, your starting to come off like a total dipshit... still not connecting the dots are you?
My guess is your retirement is some how tied up in Uniteds profitability. 99.999% of the people here or in the general public are not going to agree with your asinine point of view on this.
SeriousStudent
04-11-17, 18:29
I think it's time we just sit on the taxiway and take a deep breath.
Everybody get a drink and a bag of peanuts, chill for a bit, and we'll get airborne in a few hours.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.