View Full Version : Most significant upgrade to small arms since Vietnam?
Eurodriver
04-16-17, 07:37
What do you think it is?
Huge advances in optics/nightvision but the firearms itself haven't changed much.
Outlander Systems
04-16-17, 07:40
Trijicon ACOG.
Since the M16A1 and the M4 have the same operating mechanism, I'd say it has to be in the arena of optics: RDS, ACOGs, IR, etc. Of course then you'd have to mention the Picatinny rail that allows it all to be mounted. I'd also have to say that the latest ammo issued, M855A1 (issues not-withstanding) and Mk318, has made the M16/M4 platform a good deal more effective in terminal ballistics.
The exploitation of the M16 FOW's modularity is the most significant evolution in recent years. Flat top uppers, railed and modular fore-ends, pistol grip options, stock options, etc. The M16 of the 60s, 70s, and 80s (maybe the early 90s too) was less flexible than those of the mid/late 90s and later. The use of quality durable optics, such as the ACOG and Aimpoint has in my opinion been the single best addition during this time.
RobertTheTexan
04-16-17, 08:28
RDS sights. Having a durable optic with a battery life that my m4s has is ridiculous. That and the latest NODS and use of IR lasers to paint the bad guys.
I think in terms of lightening up the load, the use of different metals, titanium for one, although I don't usually go that route. I don't like shiny metal things on my AR's. I think to a degree MLok, because It provides a much more scaled down, compact mounting system that is just as sturdy, if not more than picatinny, also contributes to lightening the load. While on their own these may not represent "break through technology" I think the sum all the parts may have a bigger impact. Did any of you read the AAR on NSW Crane's eval of MLok? Just curious. Probably missed a long thread about it. :-\
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Headborne NODs and IR lasers entirely changed the way we fight.
I was going to suggest thermal, but I haven't used it yet, and it's not very prolific.
HardToHandle
04-16-17, 09:32
It is all in sighting and situational awareness. I would nominate Blue Force Tracker and communications below the squad level, because battlefield connectivity meant direct and indirect fires became so much more effective. Suddenly applying firepower on the battlefield has become a huge force multiplier.
If it is attached to a gun, it is Gen3 night vision and lasers.
If it is technology applied to a small arms, then it is Glock and polymer. Gaston was not first, but the Glock mentality changed the firearm industry base from John Browning era labor intensive manufacturing to injection molding and hammer mills.
RetroRevolver77
04-16-17, 09:37
Picatinny rail.
No sure if this would be fall under that category, but there's been a virtual revolution in the understanding of terminal ballistics in the decades since Nam so getting the most from the projectile coming out of that highly moded AR would be a significant upgrade to small arms, at least indirectly if considered a separate category.
Headborne NODs and IR lasers entirely changed the way we fight.
This. All else being equal; a really nice CAR-15 then is about on par with a rack grade M4 now but smaller, better Night Optics really changed it up from huge tubular devices that were almost as big as the rifle.
You didn't specify military or civilian. On the civilian side, the advent and popularity of the polymer framed handgun certainly cannot be ignored.
RetroRevolver77
04-16-17, 12:42
You didn't specify military or civilian. On the civilian side, the advent and popularity of the polymer framed handgun certainly cannot be ignored.
I agree, I wish the rifle market would catch up.
You didn't specify military or civilian. On the civilian side, the advent and popularity of the polymer framed handgun certainly cannot be ignored.
Technically a hi cap polymer handgun did exist in that era. The VP70
Technically a hi cap polymer handgun did exist in that era. The VP70
Yes, but to be fair, it was a 1911 or revolver world, even with the hi power in existence. The "wonder nines" as they were called, started to break that paradigm even as it was necessary for the terminal ballistics of the projectile to evolve. Think how many old timers still think autos only jam at the worst time and that the 9mm is weak sauce. Sigs and Glocks are primarily responsible for the evolution.
That said, I agree with previous posts attributing the greatest advancements are in the field of optics, RDS and nods first and foremost.
Most significant upgrade to small arms since Vietnam?
Picatinny Rail, and now its successors.
The ground has shifted under our feet, as well. In 1966 (!) I got introduced to the M-16 courtesy of Uncle. I acquired an iron-sighted Colt CAR-15 in the mid-80s for "work". Sold it in the early 90s because I no longer thought I would be needing one. In 2006 I smelled the coffee and the result was a 6720 and an ACOG.
I think the lines of bat shit crazy in this country and my AR ownership on a graph would pretty well be identical.
The ground has shifted under our feet, as well. In 1966 (!) I got introduced to the M-16 courtesy of Uncle. I acquired an iron-sighted Colt CAR-15 in the mid-80s for "work". Sold it in the early 90s because I no longer thought I would be needing one. In 2006 I smelled the coffee and the result was a 6720 and an ACOG.
I think the lines of bat shit crazy in this country and my AR ownership on a graph would pretty well be identical.
I cannot and would never disparage that "swords to plowshares" line of wishful thinking. But, that those days will never happen. Ever.
There's always someone waiting for you fall asleep.
Moose-Knuckle
04-17-17, 05:16
Agree with all the above concerning RDS, NODs, IR lasers, weapon mounted lights, and all their attachment methods.
I geek out over the tricked out CARs that SOG used in Operation Ivory Coast, the evolution you can see from that through the 80's with Delta, 90's Gothic Serpent, etc.
LAV's AR book(s) illustrate all of this.
I need to finish reading that book!
NODS, RDS and WMLs on long guns, the Glock in handguns.
Upon reading the thread title, the first thing that immediately popped into my head was the ACOG and the mass issuing of optics to infantry soldiers.
I also would agree with the previous mention of the picatinny rail as well, since it has helped progress the revolution with optics as well as other attachments such as lights, lasers, and grips.
Sighting systems. I can imagine they give a decent boost in confidence to the average user as well vs Iron sights.
I still love muh irons
You know what.....we ladyboner over guns but really....satellites have really done quite a bit. Used to people had to hide in the bush for a month or fly a Jet over Russia almost to the point of seeing the curvature of the earth
Moose-Knuckle
04-18-17, 02:20
You know what.....we ladyboner over guns but really....satellites have really done quite a bit. Used to people had to hide in the bush for a month or fly a Jet over Russia almost to the point of seeing the curvature of the earth
In Vietnam, the CIA had the capabilities to detect the light/heat signatures from the spark plugs firing in the engines of cargo trucks on the Ho Chi Minh. Then they would send in the AC-47 (Puff the Magic Dragon) or call in a B-52 to clean them out.
Though the NRO was founded in 1960, the CIA placed ground sensors along the trail. Later in the 70's the NRO developed lenses that could read the name of a manufacture off a golf ball on the ground from low Earth orbit. We're light years ahead of that, it's actually kind of scary.
Since the thread is less about optics and night vision, I'd say ammo. If that doesn't count, polymers.
SilverBullet432
04-18-17, 05:58
Modular weapons. Interchangeable parts.
I would say the change has been evolutionary, with not much drastic change other than the use of materials like polymer (plastic) and aluminum alloys in more firearms. Also, I think reliability of most modern, quality firearms has become better. Look at the positive changes in the AR platform since Nam.
Grand58742
04-18-17, 07:25
If we are talking purely US small arms that go bang, I'd say the introduction of the M-249 as being a pretty significant upgrade to the squad/platoon based firepower. The Stoner system could count as being "introduced" in that era as the granddaddy to the 249, but certainly wasn't widely issued enough to qualify as an "upgrade."
Otherwise, like others have mentioned optics, NODs and modularity are the obvious choices. I'd also say shorter barrel length becoming standard as being a significant upgrade.
Digital_Damage
04-18-17, 07:52
since the end or during.
During, 7.62×51mm NATO
End, FIM-92 Stinger
Three things-
Improved sighting systems. Both magnified and non magnified optics are tougher, lighter, clearer and offer illuminated reticles. Night vision gear technology has advanced by leaps and bounds, expanding conditions in which our warriors can fight. Lasers also expand capabilities through the marking of targets to be attacked by other assets and offering illumination for NODs.
Universal rail systems. Universal rail systems allow shooters to quickly and securely configure small arms for the needs of the mission. This capability sparked the development of better optics, NODs and laser systems.
Ammunition. Ammunition is more reliable, better quality, offers better penetration, improved precision and, particularly in the civilian sector, improved lethality. Bullet technology has come a long way since the Vietnam era
Imho....the internet... specifically, the gun forum....
Most people back in the day only used, had, or cared about a factory plain jane gun.
For rifle changes. without the flat top upper and pic rail, we would still be stuck with the integrated carry handle and plastic furniture with the a2 sight.
For handguns. The glock. It wasnt the first or the last. But it revolutionized the gun industry. Its simplicity and reliability make it a true modern marvel. Imagine trying to design somthing so revolutionary.
Optics, lights and nv have completly changed combat. Now a man can own the night
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Imho....the internet... specifically, the gun forum....
This! The ability to give direct and immediate feedback to manufacturers so that designs and issues can fix almost instantaneously, and well as put them on blast if they don't resolve the issues.
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