Dented case shoulders

[PeaShooter]

Let me first start my post off by saying that I have been handloading metallic centerfire cartridges for 45 years, so I am not inexperienced at it.

I got into the AR platform about four years ago and immediately purchased a set of RCBS small base .223/5.56 dies specific for AR's. I also use Lyman's Quick Slick case lube.

My problem is that I get a lot of sized cases with the dreaded shoulder dent. I have experimented with various degrees of lube amounts. Too much = big dents....too little = stuck cases. I cannot seem to find a middle ground, and believe me I have tried. I set my cases on a piece of flat cardboard, spray both sides, and have both waited for them to dry and have sized them wet (after rolling them in my fingers to get excess lube off). I do lube the inside of the case mouth, sometimes every case, sometimes every fifth case or so. I've tried everything. I clean the inside of the sizing die before and after use, including running a toothpick through the vent hole on the side. I have used a small light to inspect the inside of the die and all looks okay. Still manage to get at least 50% of my cases with dents ranging from minute to fairly bothersome. I have gotten dented shoulders on cases of larger calibers in the past, but it was due to having too much lube on the cases, and I knew that. Too much lube is not the problem I am having here, although it gives the appearance that over-lubing is the problem. FWIW, I can very lightly lube the cases and NOT get dented cases, but have the occasional stuck case, which is totally unacceptable.

Do I have a bad die? Is Lyman Quick Slick not a good product (although I don't know why it wouldn't be)? Should I just purchase a standard .223/5.56 sizing die?

Any suggestions appreciated. I'm about to pull my hair out on this one (if I had any :sarcastic:).

[TomMcC]

As I go to load the case into the shell holder, I quickly and by force of habit, spin the case between my index finger, middle finger and thumb right at the shoulder area. This smooths out and knocks down any excess lube on the shoulder. Works every time and I've never had a stuck case. It seems to leave just the right amount of lube on the shoulder/neck area.

[PeaShooter]

As I go to load the case into the shell holder, I quickly and by force of habit, spin the case between my index finger, middle finger and thumb right at the shoulder area. This smooths out and knocks down any excess lube on the shoulder. Works every time and I've never had a stuck case. It seems to leave just the right amount of lube on the shoulder/neck area.

Actually, I use that method over the whole case. I think I'm going to try a different lube...maybe drill the vent hole a tad smaller.

Thanks for the reply.

[Waylander]

Your case lube is most likely your problem. It's gotten average to bad reviews with customers complaining of the same issues.

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/529870/lyman-quick-slick-case-lube-16-oz-liquid

http://www.opticsplanet.com/lyman-quick-slick-pump-spray-case-lube-16-oz.html

https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Products-Quick-Slick-16-Ounce/dp/B00B0BC8XU

I use spray lube and the same dies as you. I put all of my cases in a 50 case reloading tray so when I spray them the inside of the necks get some sprayed in there so there's no need for me to lube the case necks separately.

[aklaunch]

Hi PS,

Have you used the Lyman product in the past with good results?


My first sizing die was a SB RCBS too.

That was my first reloading mistake as well....

I suppose the Sizing die was good but.... The bullet seating die did not really like these fancy new high BC bullets. Seems it would be a fine bullet seater with some flat nose hunting bullets?

In your long years of reloading what do you normally use for shell lube?


My Dad is like you and has been loading longer than the earth has been around and it seems he switches and changes it up every couple of years. The trend has always been to come back to the RCBS case lube pad. Interestingly enough i just use the case pad for the shells and a Forster graphite brush for the mouths.

The Forster dies i use have the little pressure vent hole that needs to be adjusted at the lower 1/3 of the ball. I can't remember exactly how the RCBS systems works?

If you are shooting bullets from a 5.56 chamber maybe you could consider a FL die of better quality.

Of course all of this is 2nd to finding why the system you have is F'ing up your shells.

[PeaShooter]

Your case lube is most likely your problem. It's gotten average to bad reviews with customers complaining of the same issues.

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/529870/lyman-quick-slick-case-lube-16-oz-liquid

http://www.opticsplanet.com/lyman-quick-slick-pump-spray-case-lube-16-oz.html

https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Products-Quick-Slick-16-Ounce/dp/B00B0BC8XU

I use spray lube and the same dies as you. I put all of my cases in a 50 case reloading tray so when I spray them the inside of the necks get some sprayed in there so there's no need for me to lube the case necks separately.

Wow....just WOW. Thanks for those links/reviews. My thinking has now changed from thinking I need to change lube to knowing I need to change. I used Midway's spray lube for years with good results, but I'm going to give the Hornady One Shot a try. The Lyman Quick Slick is going in the trash can.

[TomMcC]

Just make your own lube. It's really easy. Get some liquid lanolin and mix it at 10 parts 91% or better alcohol to 1 part lanolin. Shake and spray. This is, from my understanding, basically what Dillion lube is.

PS Hornady One Shot gets it's share of bad mouthing also. I use to use it and for the most part it worked ok. It's been a while since I used it, but I don't remember it being terrible or anything. I stopped using it when I switched over to the homemade formula. The HM formula is cheaper too.

[PeaShooter]

Just make your own lube. It's really easy. Get some liquid lanolin and mix it at 10 parts 91% or better alcohol to 1 part lanolin. Shake and spray. This is, from my understanding, basically what Dillion lube is.

PS Hornady One Shot gets it's share of bad mouthing also. I use to use it and for the most part it worked ok. It's been a while since I used it, but I don't remember it being terrible or anything. I stopped using it when I switched over to the homemade formula. The HM formula is cheaper too.

I'll certainly give it a go. Is that household Isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol that you're using?

[TomMcC]

Yes it is.

[bigedp51]

1. The reloading manuals tell you to wipe off the shoulder and neck of the case before sizing.

2. A small base die is .002 to .003 smaller in diameter and pushes the shoulder back .002 to .003 further than a standard die. Meaning this type die will "squeeze" more case lube upward to the shoulder area of the case.

I use a home made spray case lube of lanolin and alcohol, and put the cases in a large ziplock bag. I spray the cases inside the bag and then zip the bag closed and then squeeze and work the brass.

When the alcohol dries it leaves a thin film of lube and I wipe the shoulder and neck with "dry" fingers wiped clean with a hand towel.

Also check the dies vent hole is open that allows excess lube to be vented. Sometimes the lock ring covers the vent hole and minimum lube must be used. A Q-Tip can be used to wipe the dies shoulder area when the vent hole is blocked.

Your not packing and greasing your wheel bearings and only a thin film of lube is needed for your cases.

[Waylander]

Hi PS,

Have you used the Lyman product in the past with good results?


My first sizing die was a SB RCBS too.

That was my first reloading mistake as well....

I suppose the Sizing die was good but.... The bullet seating die did not really like these fancy new high BC bullets. Seems it would be a fine bullet seater with some flat nose hunting bullets?

The Forster dies i use have the little pressure vent hole that needs to be adjusted at the lower 1/3 of the ball. I can't remember exactly how the RCBS systems works?

If you are shooting bullets from a 5.56 chamber maybe you could consider a FL die of better quality.

What bullets did you have issues seating with your RCBS dies? I've seated several different styles of bullets and never had any issues.

Of course he's going to need a full length resizing die at the least. He mentioned in the OP he's loading for an AR.


OP:

I use Lee resizing lube diluted around one tube to 32oz 91%+ rubbing alcohol in a cheap spray bottle. I like the Lee because it dries unlike the gooey lanolin lube. I haven't had any stuck or deformed cases. The small base dies are fine. You will only see a marginal decrease in brass life. You'll probably​ wear out your primer pockets before the necks split or anything.

I use anywhere from a .005-.008" arbor shim between my shell holder and die base to prevent excessive shoulder bump. You can also buy Redding competition shell holders to reduce headspace bump.

[markm]

For God's sake. Get Dillon's Case Lube and never look back. I've never hydrolic'd a shoulder in who knows how many hundreds of thousands of rounds of .223

[RedRallyeZ]

i have been using imperial case sizing wax with perfect results. I know i am probably using too much, but i have never even seen a dented shoulder on my 223 cases. This is with the lee sizing die. I have never tried anything else, but I'm not sure i would need to.

[ace4059]

Buy Dillon case lube... by the case. Problem solved. Each bottle seems to last me about 12-15 gallons of brass. I load by the 5 gallon bucket and never have issues.

[T2C]

As bigedp51 alluded, keep liquid lube off the shoulder and neck of the case. Case lube will hydraulically cause dents that often will not disappear while shooting. I saw a lot of dented brass when I first started sizing brass with a generous amount of lube on the case neck and shoulder. I use Hornady Unique on the case body and dry lube on the neck. I make double sure the case shoulders are dry before pressing brass into the sizing die.

[gunnerblue]

I've recently begun using homemade lanolin/isopropyl alcohol lube based on advice from this forum and cannot speak highly enough about it. Try and find 99% alcohol solution, though, as it contains less water than 91% and will make for a better product. Farm supply/feed stores should carry it.

[markm]

Buy Dillon case lube... by the case. Problem solved. Each bottle seems to last me about 12-15 gallons of brass. I load by the 5 gallon bucket and never have issues.

End of story. Why people tolerate other nonsense is insane. I used to have a 3 gallon bucket that I'd just mist periodically as I worked my way down and the lube would trickle down as I'd go.

[bigedp51]

End of story. Why people tolerate other nonsense is insane. I used to have a 3 gallon bucket that I'd just mist periodically as I worked my way down and the lube would trickle down as I'd go.

Dillon case lube MSDS
Isopropyl Alcohol 95%
Surfactant 5% (rumored to be lanolin but might be whale snot, my home made lube contains lanolin which is nothing more than sheep sweat)

[elephantrider]

Unless you are using some blown out MG brass, or have a tight chamber, or are getting a lot of spring back, you probably don't need the small base die.
Keep the lube off of the case shoulder if possible.
Use the Imperial sizing wax if lubing small batches by hand, or go with the Dillon spray if doing large batches.

[markm]

Use the Imperial sizing wax if lubing small batches by hand, or go with the Dillon spray if doing large batches.

I have the Imperial too for a special die. But even for small batches, I have dedicated plastic trays that are permanently gooey from lube. I just spray small batches in the corner of the plastic tray.

[elephantrider]

I have the Imperial too for a special die. But even for small batches, I have dedicated plastic trays that are permanently gooey from lube. I just spray small batches in the corner of the plastic tray.

I hear you, it is slow, even for small batches, but if someone is having problems with cases sticking, or denting, I'll tell them to try imperial just to trouble shoot it. Problems typically go away if a case is properly lubed with Imperial.

[PeaShooter]

I have the Imperial too for a :confused:special die. But even for small batches, I have dedicated plastic trays that are permanently gooey from lube. I just spray small batches in the corner of the plastic tray.

I am hearing an awful lot about this Imperial wax. Can someone check their bottle and see what ingredients make this wax the holy grail of case lubes? :confused: I'd certainly appreciate it.

[markm]

I am hearing an awful lot about this Imperial wax. Can someone check their bottle and see what ingredients make this wax the holy grail of case lubes? :confused: I'd certainly appreciate it.

It's a can.. smaller than skoal dip, and there's no ingredients listed. it's really not ALL THAT, but it's convenient for finger lubing small sizing applications.