View Full Version : Post Full Auto Meltdown Test: Nitride & Chrome Lined Barrel Accuracy Test
Mrgunsngear
04-21-17, 12:04
Following the test I wiped the parts down, put some lubrication on them, added a new gas tube to the CL barreled upper, and went out to test the accuracy of these barrels following a steady diet of full auto fire.
I think the results may surprise some folks (I was a little surprised myself) but of course it's a sample size of 1 each.
http://youtu.be/6UMdeXPUCIQ
MeanCarbine
04-21-17, 12:29
Nice work MrGnG!
Results pretty much coincide with what Ron at Battlefield Vegas has seen. Melonited barrels are plenty fine for SA use.
RobertTheTexan
04-21-17, 13:46
1. Lives on lake
2. Shoots guns for fun.
You are a blessed man GnG.
You need a padawan? I'll send my resume. Someone to carry the torch. :)
Seriously though, good video. I'm trying to understand the POI shift from your zero 55gr to this vid. Also do you have a video on ammo? I had been shooting all Freedom until I heard of some safety issues, and made a shoows
But I'd be interested to know if you did a review of the gorilla ammo.
Aside: I use Federals OTM in my 308 for zero and precision. I find that it's an excellent ammunition. It's consistent.
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vicious_cb
04-21-17, 15:49
Surprising results indeed. After seeing how far off the POI and how large the first group was I would have checked the torque on my scope mount. Can you confirm it was locked down properly?
I thoroughly enjoyed this series. Thanks for taking the time to put all of this together, Mr GnG. Excellent work.
While it was a small sample, and other variables weren't perfectly controlled, there are still good takeaways. First, let me be clear that previous comment is not meant to be a critique or complaint. With that being said, this test makes me far less concerned with the specific barrel treatment/lining. Even before the first video was realeased, my interest was mostly in determining if accelerated wear was an issue for melonited barrels; especially when put through a more aggressive firing session. Regardless of the stoppages, you still sustained a rate of fire that, I'd imagine, no one here will come close to matching in a real world scenario.
As far as I'm concerned, the post-test groups showed that the two barrels maintained their practical accuracy. Personally, that was really the only data I was looking for. When considering the barrel options for my upcoming build, your test has helped me to conclude that the coating/finish shouldn't really be a factor in my ultimate decision.
Again, thank you for doing these tests!
Another interesting, cool video. Thanks Mr. GNG
Great series, looking forward to the borescope.
I wonder if the breaks from the malfunctions had any impact?
Great vid, thanks.
Surprising indeed.
556BlackRifle
04-22-17, 00:34
Nice work. Thanks!
Not trying to be a wise guy. I own both types of barrels and I'm trying to understand enough to come to some sort of a conclusion. Can we we say one is better than the other? Do we need to wait for the Faxon borescoping? It looks like the melonited barrel did a bit better accuracy wise......is this meaningful? I don't know what to think.
Not trying to be a wise guy. I own both types of barrels and I'm trying to understand enough to come to some sort of a conclusion. Can we we say one is better than the other? Do we need to wait for the Faxon borescoping? It looks like the melonited barrel did a bit better accuracy wise......is this meaningful? I don't know what to think.
Nothing can be drawn from such a test other than that both performed adequately after some abuse. This test is non-scientific, and statistically insignificant.
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My understanding is that chrome-lining is a very high overhead cost operation, and thus only done by very few makers.
Does Faxon do these in-house or outsource?
What is the depth of the chrome lining? It could be that the depth and tolerance that the chrome lining is applied would affect both the accuracy and resistance to heat.
All chrome lining, and Nitriding for that matter, are likely not the same.
My understanding is that chrome-lining is a very high overhead cost operation, and thus only done by very few makers.
Does Faxon do these in-house or outsource?
What is the depth of the chrome lining? It could be that the depth and tolerance that the chrome lining is applied would affect both the accuracy and resistance to heat.
All chrome lining, and Nitriding for that matter, are likely not the same.
This is the same point I was working towards. That the finish or treatment is far less critical than the one doing the finishing. If done right, either will be perfectly serviceable. By no means should this test be viewed as chromed barrels being less accurate or durable than their Melonited brethren. Both remained combat accurate after being abused. The Melonited shot a little better, but there are too many variables unaccounted for to draw any detailed conclusions.
I do think this somewhat puts to bed the idea that melonite is a notably inferior option. It would have been interesting if the results were reversed. Given the more established track record of Chrome, I think everyone is more inclined to write off/excuse the perceived poorer performance. I'm not sure melonite would be given that same level of courtesy. Instead, the testing may have been viewed as evidence it can't hold up.
This is the same point I was working towards. That the finish or treatment is far less critical than the one doing the finishing. If done right, either will be perfectly serviceable. By no means should this test be viewed as chromed barrels being less accurate or durable than their Melonited brethren. Both remained combat accurate after being abused. The Melonited shot a little better, but there are too many variables unaccounted for to draw any detailed conclusions.
I do think this somewhat puts to bed the idea that melonite is a notably inferior option. It would have been interesting if the results were reversed. Given the more established track record of Chrome, I think everyone is more inclined to write off/excuse the perceived poorer performance. I'm not sure melonite would be given that same level of courtesy. Instead, the testing may have been viewed as evidence it can't hold up.
Well stated, and those are my thoughts too. The accuracy results honestly surprised me. I was wondering if the scope mount was loose on the CL barrel while I was watching the video as alluded to earlier in the thread
FaxonNathan
04-24-17, 08:43
My understanding is that chrome-lining is a very high overhead cost operation, and thus only done by very few makers.
Does Faxon do these in-house or outsource?
What is the depth of the chrome lining? It could be that the depth and tolerance that the chrome lining is applied would affect both the accuracy and resistance to heat.
All chrome lining, and Nitriding for that matter, are likely not the same.
Faxon does not chrome or nitride in-house. Both are extremely high overhead processes and we know of only few manufacturers who do that in-house. None in the US to our knowledge outside of one heavy and medium machine gun manufacturer.
For those curious, the barrel was Nitrided by Parker Trutec and the Chrome by US Chrome. US Chrome has been doing US military barrels for decades.
Both run about the same thickness. .0005 is about nominal for both.
This is the same point I was working towards. That the finish or treatment is far less critical than the one doing the finishing. If done right, either will be perfectly serviceable. By no means should this test be viewed as chromed barrels being less accurate or durable than their Melonited brethren. Both remained combat accurate after being abused. The Melonited shot a little better, but there are too many variables unaccounted for to draw any detailed conclusions.
I do think this somewhat puts to bed the idea that melonite is a notably inferior option. It would have been interesting if the results were reversed. Given the more established track record of Chrome, I think everyone is more inclined to write off/excuse the perceived poorer performance. I'm not sure melonite would be given that same level of courtesy. Instead, the testing may have been viewed as evidence it can't hold up.
In this statement, we agree wholly, which is partially why we did it.
Nathan, does Faxon cut the bores of barrels a bit larger to compensate for the thickness of the chrome lining?
Faxon does not chrome or nitride in-house. Both are extremely high overhead processes and we know of only few manufacturers who do that in-house. None in the US to our knowledge outside of one heavy and medium machine gun manufacturer.
For those curious, the barrel was Nitrided by Parker Trutec and the Chrome by US Chrome. US Chrome has been doing US military barrels for decades.
Both run about the same thickness. .0005 is about nominal for both.
In this statement, we agree wholly, which is partially why we did it.
Hmm LiFe Coating in the Future perhaps?
FaxonNathan
04-24-17, 13:56
Nathan, does Faxon cut the bores of barrels a bit larger to compensate for the thickness of the chrome lining?
No. US Chrome uses an electropolish step for the barrels that we have them line. Much easier to control the bore dimensions and finish that way.
Hmm LiFe Coating in the Future perhaps?
Perhaps. We will not move to any new process or coating without exhaustively testing it.
If we do move to it, you can rest assured, that we feel confident in putting our brand and reputation on it.
No. US Chrome uses an electropolish step for the barrels that we have them line. Much easier to control the bore dimensions and finish that way.
Perhaps. We will not move to any new process or coating without exhaustively testing it.
If we do move to it, you can rest assured, that we feel confident in putting our brand and reputation on it.
How much do they remove?
BufordTJustice
04-24-17, 20:33
Mike GnG, phenomenal job on this series of videos!
Nathan (@ Faxon), I've known your barrels are top notch for some time. Nice to see some data reinforcing that.
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FaxonNathan
04-25-17, 07:52
How much do they remove?
That can depend on the bore size upon arrival, desired thickness of plating, etc.
The important part is that it is tightly controlled and effective.
FaxonNathan
04-25-17, 07:52
Mike GnG, phenomenal job on this series of videos!
Nathan (@ Faxon), I've known your barrels are top notch for some time. Nice to see some data reinforcing that.
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We were thrilled to work with an excellent content creator!
ColtSeavers
09-28-17, 20:51
Please excuse my late reply, but THANK YOU PLOUF/MRGUNSGEAR AND FAXON for FINALLY doing this damned test. Good gawd was this long overdue.
THANK YOU!
thegreyman
09-29-17, 07:16
MGG, another interesting video; there are so many developments taking place; it is fun to leave the theoretical and move into the real world of application.
Have a Geissele SSA on my DD Mk 12 and need to install SSA-E on another rifle. Geissele triggers take shooting to a whole new level. :agree:
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