View Full Version : larue mount wear and tear
i have a pretty deep scratch under my rails from my LT150...just wondering if anyone else has them. not really worried abouit cosmetics but more the return to zero. i have taken my aimpoint of maybe 10 times so far
i did not post on the other site because i know so many idiots are gonna tell me not to worry about scratches :rolleyes:
i have a pretty deep scratch under my rails from my LT150...just wondering if anyone else has them. not really worried abouit cosmetics but more the return to zero. i have taken my aimpoint of maybe 10 times so far
i did not post on the other site because i know so many idiots are gonna tell me not to worry about scratches :rolleyes:
Actually, you might have it backwards: we're the ones that will tell you not to worry about scratchs ;)
However, if it's digging into the metal then please do as Rob_S suggested and try and get some pictures.
Also please post who manufactured the upper receiver. The great thing about the LaRue mount is that it's adjustable. I had a similar thing happen with an ARMS mount an there was no way for me to adjust it to fit tight against the upper receiver. As long as your LaRue mount is tight you should be fine.
i have a pretty deep scratch under my rails from my LT150...just wondering if anyone else has them. not really worried abouit cosmetics but more the return to zero. i have taken my aimpoint of maybe 10 times so far
i did not post on the other site because i know so many idiots are gonna tell me not to worry about scratches :rolleyes:
Who made the receiver? I am afraid that a lot of upper receivers are NOT class III HA so the levers might dig in (especially if they are over tightened).
The lever should be tight enough so that the mount doesn't move when you do a "push/pull" test. So you kind of half to play with it to find the sweet spot.
C4
(especially if they are over tightened).
The lever should be tight enough so that the mount doesn't move when you do a "push/pull" test. So you kind of half to play with it to find the sweet spot.
C4
Yup, if you follow the directions all should be GTG. Most guys OVERTIGHTEN and induce the damage themselves...
Mace
Mark told me: "Adjust levers to where they are tough to close and a bitch to open." When it comes to optic mounts, I've found that most people overtighten them.
K.L. Davis
10-20-06, 20:57
Actually, you might have it backwards: we're the ones that will tell you not to worry about scratchs ;)
Roger that... I was thinking I am entirely on the wrong forum there for a second :p
The only upper I saw have problems was a CF C8 upper that we had intially put a 1.93 on a Colt upper then pushed it on to (via two people) the Diemaco upper.
(yeah yeah yeah) -- I like to learn from my mistakes...
I swapped several LT mounts (1.93 for the SD and a LT EO) on Colt and LMT uppers for a few months with no issues.
i really did not know about the adjustability, hmm i'll try to get some pics up by the end of the weekend...i guess cerro made the receiver, its a 6920
i really did not know about the adjustability, hmm i'll try to get some pics up by the end of the weekend...i guess cerro made the receiver, its a 6920
I hate to ask such as silly question, but what did you think the wrench that came with the mount was for?
C4
Wayne Dobbs
10-21-06, 13:28
....umm, a gift?.....like the 'dillo opener or an LT cap!
i really did not know about the adjustability, hmm i'll try to get some pics up by the end of the weekend...i guess cerro made the receiver, its a 6920
Between this and the "scratch thing", this has got to be a set up for the new moderator................I am not falling for it;) .
Pat_Rogers
10-22-06, 07:03
There is a tag in the package that says "Danger" Read Instructions".
Reading is fundemental, but apparently, also ignored...
Just as long as the "Fit and Finish" are good...............(That was for you Pat...:cool: )
There is a tag in the package that says "Danger" Read Instructions".
Reading is fundemental, but apparently, also ignored...
When I was active duty we had a saying R.T.F.M. :D
Now that I'm in the corporate world I have to use the politically correct version: R.T.M.
And yes, it goes largely ignored ;)
Mark LaRue
10-22-06, 13:08
Mark told me: "Adjust levers to where they are tough to close and a bitch to open." When it comes to optic mounts, I've found that most people overtighten them.
Mojo58,
I've quit saying "bitch to open". Because it turns out that one man's bitch is another man's queen. :-/
Some folks idea of a "bitch to close" means a five pound hammer and I foolishly did not take that into account.
The revised instructions will have "color glossy photographs with a paragraph on the back of every one" - Arlo Guthrie
Jokes aside, it appears that the better method is to adjust it to where the lever meets solid resistance at about 30-45 degrees from the centerline of the rail. Another method is to adjust until the mount cannot be scooted back and forth on the rail...turns out that that's about 45 degrees.
If anyone can 'splain that better, I wish you would, because I need an easy set of revised instructions to send out with the mount products.
We have shipped tens of thousands of the lever stuff and had but a couple of complaints....due to over-tightening. Out of the thousands we've made, none have broken yet and that's testimony to the 17-4 stainless we machine them from.
I do see pics of a lot of stuff in use over there that our stuff is mounted to and none of it seems to be in "mint condition". :-/
Oh yeah, and we know that an occasional drop of CLP on the lever minimizes even the littlest smudge - as always, everything is better when it's wetter. :-)
Mark
Between this and the "scratch thing", this has got to be a set up for the new moderator................I am not falling for it;) .
well i'm looking for the camera, i packed(about to PCS) and i got the mount from CT Supply used...hmm i feel like at TOS now its weird ;)
well i'm looking for the camera, i packed(about to PCS) and i got the mount from CT Supply used...hmm i feel like at TOS now its weird ;)
Actually at "TOS" most would have advised that beauty is more important than function. You will not find that here. Reliability and function are king here. Looks are dead last on the list. I think most here would prefer the 6ft drop over the shoulder onto gravel to make sure everything is secure on the weapon. :D
I do however understand that you were concerned that something was wrong with either the mount or your receiver and wanted to double check that everything was ok. As you found out, the lever needed to be adjusted so I hope you got the info you needed.
C4
Mark LaRue
10-23-06, 09:25
well i'm looking for the camera, i packed(about to PCS) and i got the mount from CT Supply used...hmm i feel like at TOS now its weird ;)
Rats, bought it used, probably didn't get the wrench or instructions. :-/
We do adjust the levers here to the middle of the the 1913 spec...but a used unit could and probably has been reset to some other rail and ...
Again, for those of you obsessed with "absolute mint condition", occasionally put a wee bit of lube on the cam area. No biggie.
ML
www.laruetactical.com
Download our new screensaver...it's on the new LT website.
...
Again, for those of you obsessed with "absolute mint condition", occasionally put a wee bit of lube on the cam area...www.laruetactical.com
Download our new screensaver...it's on the new LT website.
Sounds like another application for Vagisil. :D
Mojo58,
I've quit saying "bitch to open". Because it turns out that one man's bitch is another man's queen. :-/
Whatever happened to the days when a bitch was simply a bitch?:o The way I adjusted mine reminded me of adjusting quick release levers on bicycle wheel skewers. It's very much like your explanation of the angles involved and the resistance "felt" at a certain point in the arc.
-Chris
Is it just me or does anyone else see "dildo" when they aren't supposed to?:eek:
One of my buddies just had to "fit" a Diemaco upper (pics to follow) for a 1.93 (he noticed unlike me the damn 'weaver rail' is the issue on the CF uppers...)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/Shawnsshit.jpg
He's a shooter not a photographer...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/c8s_b.jpg
Okay, I guess you guys aren't screwing with me. I just got another MRP last night, and was trading out optics, barrels, etc........don't hate me.
Anyways, I was moving a whole bunch of optics and lights around from several different uppers. THe LaRue stuff is wonderful for this. It is amazing how much adjustment is needed between uppers from various manufactures (sometimes even the same manufacture). I generally adjust mine to be fairly tight and leaving a minor cosmetic blemish on the finish under the bottom of a rail is the least of my worries on a working rifle (all of mine are considered work guns/tools). I am amazed at how much movement we tolerated in the past with moving mounts, and it is also amazing how much better my AR's shoot with tightly mounted optics (some have shot amazing groups even with me behind the rifle:eek: ). The directions and wrench are in there for a reason. If you don't have either, call LaRue.
I've never had any problems with scratching or gouging the rail on the upper receiver. That said, when I had an A2 AUG, the picatinney rail was so out of spec that the Larue mount did gouge it, and I had backed out the nut as far as I felt was wise to do. I couldn't even get the ARMS mount I tried to lock on. Since I was using an ACOG, I had to revert back to the Trijicon dual thumbscrew mount.
No picture of the gouging, but I do miss this gun. :(
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v508/FALbert/AUGA2/A2AUGwithACOGNSNleftsideviewgammacorrected.jpg
I've got one CMT upper that I have gouged the underside of the rail a little by adjusting the lever too tight (a bitch and a half!).
However, it still holds zero perfectly no matter how many times it has been mounted in the same spot. It hasn't required readjustment despite the minor damage either, so aside from cosmetics, I'd say it's a non issue.
However, I have the perfect solution for it,
DANGER! READ INSTRUCTIONS!
Then, mount it on your new STEALTH Billet Upper LT-007.
Our SWAT team is buying all new M4 fully auto carbines for swat. I was wondering if anyone had an opinion on accessories. We are considering LaRue, GGG and MI for the aimpoint cantilever mounts, and Troy, MI or GGG for the flip up BUIS and either Surefire or MI for the picatiny rail system. I don't know if mixing and matching is ok, we obviously need them all to co-witness and we already have a bunch of PVS-14's with GGG quick release mounts we need to co-witness with whatever we buy. ANy thoughts?
Our SWAT team is buying all new M4 fully auto carbines for swat. I was wondering if anyone had an opinion on accessories. We are considering LaRue, GGG and MI for the aimpoint cantilever mounts, and Troy, MI or GGG for the flip up BUIS and either Surefire or MI for the picatiny rail system. I don't know if mixing and matching is ok, we obviously need them all to co-witness and we already have a bunch of PVS-14's with GGG quick release mounts we need to co-witness with whatever we buy. ANy thoughts?
IMHO and experience:
If Larue is an option, then Larue is the answer. Mark Larue, who I have met personally, is as fine a gentlemen you could meet.
Larue Aimpoint mount: Rock solid and mine ALWAYS returns to zero.
As for the "flip up" sights, Troy Ind. is superb and top notch.
I have both the Larue and Daniel Defense Rail systems...nuff said.
Mace
Our SWAT team is buying all new M4 fully auto carbines for swat. I was wondering if anyone had an opinion on accessories. We are considering LaRue, GGG and MI for the aimpoint cantilever mounts, and Troy, MI or GGG for the flip up BUIS and either Surefire or MI for the picatiny rail system. I don't know if mixing and matching is ok, we obviously need them all to co-witness and we already have a bunch of PVS-14's with GGG quick release mounts we need to co-witness with whatever we buy. ANy thoughts?
My preference would be LaRue cantilever mounts, Troy BUIS, and Surefire rail system.
The LaRue is well made, and last I checked was cheaper than the MI or GG&G mount.
I like the Troy. I like the GG&G MAD (am in the minority I guess), and like the MI BUIS. The Troy cannot be knocked out of zero as easily as the GG&G or the MI because it doesn't use an A2 windage adjustment knob.
The Surefire and MI rails are both well made, but prefer the Surefire because it is a narrower profile than the MI rail. With rail covers, I don't like having the front end feel like a 4"x4". NOTE: The Surefire top rail is lower than the receiver rail, so you won't be able to mount optics onto it (not that you should).
K.L. Davis
11-14-06, 12:39
Our SWAT team is buying all new M4 fully auto carbines for swat. I was wondering if anyone had an opinion on accessories. We are considering LaRue, GGG and MI for the aimpoint cantilever mounts, and Troy, MI or GGG for the flip up BUIS and either Surefire or MI for the picatiny rail system. I don't know if mixing and matching is ok, we obviously need them all to co-witness and we already have a bunch of PVS-14's with GGG quick release mounts we need to co-witness with whatever we buy. ANy thoughts?
Before I would make any recommendations... it would help to know if the GG&G PVS14 mounts are the low or high ones, it would be very tough to make any good suggestions without knowing what will and won't work with what you already have.
Before I would make any recommendations... it would help to know if the GG&G PVS14 mounts are the low or high ones, it would be very tough to make any good suggestions without knowing what will and won't work with what you already have.
Sorry, the GGG PVS-14 mount is the low profile one. I hate to admit that budget is an issue but it is, otherwise I wouldn't have even asked, I would have bought all LaRue. They don't want to spend a bunch of money on gunsmithing and the LaRue rail (though I think it's worth it), so it's between the MI and surefire for the rail. I was a little disappointed with a surefire rail we T&E's as one of the counter tension screws came out during full auto fire. The aimpoint mount I'm leanin towards LaRue but wasn't sure on other's opinion on mixing and matching aimpoint mounts with rear BUIS. I like LaRue BUIS, but it doesn't fold down (Hey Mark, can you make one that does? :) ) The individual components are pretty close in price, but when you multiply it by 24 guns, it adds up. Thanks for the advice.
Thanks for the advise guys, I wish money was no object but as you can imagine, it is. Thanks again.
Matt
K.L. Davis
11-14-06, 21:09
Sorry, the GGG PVS-14 mount is the low profile one. I hate to admit that budget is an issue but it is, otherwise I wouldn't have even asked, I would have bought all LaRue. They don't want to spend a bunch of money on gunsmithing and the LaRue rail (though I think it's worth it), so it's between the MI and surefire for the rail. I was a little disappointed with a surefire rail we T&E's as one of the counter tension screws came out during full auto fire. The aimpoint mount I'm leanin towards LaRue but wasn't sure on other's opinion on mixing and matching aimpoint mounts with rear BUIS. I like LaRue BUIS, but it doesn't fold down (Hey Mark, can you make one that does? :) ) The individual components are pretty close in price, but when you multiply it by 24 guns, it adds up. Thanks for the advice.
If you have the low mounts for the PVS14 then you have a couple of things to think about, that have not been mentioned yet -- don't hold me to this for gospel, I don't do much with GG&G parts...
The low mount is designed to use with an add on or extension rail, this will get the optic up high enough to make it comfortable to use and you can not get a folding rear sight under the PVS14 unless you have it up on that rail.
I know GG&G makes a rail and the low mount for the aimpoint... but I have seen other rails used -- RRA, ARMS, etc...
Do you have to have a railed handguard? All of the choices you have mentioned are good choices... but what is it going to do? The aimpoint and PVS14 both mount to the upper receiver -- other than a VFG and maybe weapons mounted light, what purpose will a railed handguard serve?
The choice that I see you having are to get the piggy-back rail, folding rear sight (choices are limited here) and the GG&G aimpoint mount that matches what you already have -- if you need to swap out handguards, then you can address that as a seperate need.
Sell the PVS14 mounts you have now and start all over.
Or check your IM for maybe another idea.
If you have the low mounts for the PVS14 then you have a couple of things to think about, that have not been mentioned yet -- don't hold me to this for gospel, I don't do much with GG&G parts...
The low mount is designed to use with an add on or extension rail, this will get the optic up high enough to make it comfortable to use and you can not get a folding rear sight under the PVS14 unless you have it up on that rail.
I know GG&G makes a rail and the low mount for the aimpoint... but I have seen other rails used -- RRA, ARMS, etc...
Do you have to have a railed handguard? All of the choices you have mentioned are good choices... but what is it going to do? The aimpoint and PVS14 both mount to the upper receiver -- other than a VFG and maybe weapons mounted light, what purpose will a railed handguard serve?
The choice that I see you having are to get the piggy-back rail, folding rear sight (choices are limited here) and the GG&G aimpoint mount that matches what you already have -- if you need to swap out handguards, then you can address that as a seperate need.
Sell the PVS14 mounts you have now and start all over.
Or check your IM for maybe another idea.
we need the railed forearms for surefire tac light, vfg and peq-2 IR laser designator. I would love to start over, but unfortunately I don't get paid to make those kind of decisions. Everyone and their dog at our dept. has LaRue mounts, we actually tried one and it did co-witness with the GGG PVS-14 mount. My big concern, which you all have helped with, is the quality of MI and Surefire and the feasibility of mixing them together. Thanks for the input.
Matt
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