View Full Version : Attack the Carl Vinson?
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/23/north-korea-threatens-to-strike-us-aircraft-carrier-to-show-militarys-force.html
Pointless bluster of course. Hard to imagine that any country on the world stage would have the incredible stupidity to attempt a "pre-emptive" attack on a major US asset in international waters, but who knows? I'm having a hard time grasping the stupidity in even making the threat.
Nevertheless, in the event we found a couple of Fat Boy's ballistic missiles making their way toward the Carl Vinson Strike Group, how would the US respond? I assume it would be with something in excess of 59 Tomahawk missiles.....
...and, what would China do?
Outlander Systems
04-23-17, 15:08
#HowManyJDAMsCanDanceOnTheHeadOfAPin
LOL
Yeah...gotta discourage that shit. It would be a helluva way to make a point though, and ultimately could solve a lot of our foreign policy problems....
Eurodriver
04-23-17, 15:56
How is NK attacking the Carl Vinson BG?
The CVBG has got so many ships out there to shoot down so many missiles - anything NK may possibly have short of a nuclear weapon won't reach the carrier (especially now that they are essentially running on full alert 24/7...even moreso than a carrier BG off of NK shore would anyway) It'd be hard to politically justify obliterating all of NK because of an unsuccessful preemptive strike on our warships - but maybe Trump isn't the average cuck POTUS typical to what we've had for >40 years.
How is NK attacking the Carl Vinson BG?
Dude...they aren't. But.....
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/23/north-korea-threatens-to-strike-us-aircraft-carrier-to-show-militarys-force.html
"Our revolutionary forces are combat-ready to sink a U.S. nuclear powered aircraft carrier with a single strive," according to North Korea’s ruling Workers’ Party’s newspaper, the Rodong Sinmum.
The paper also likened the USS Carl Vinson to a “gross animal” and said a strike on the carrier would be “an actual example to show our military’s force.”
I'm certainly no expert, but I have a hard time believing that...a) they would be able to lumber one of their missiles through and b) the response to even the attempt wouldn't be near-orgasmic.
Outlander Systems
04-23-17, 16:13
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Fj5aa8Vyzx8/maxresdefault.jpg
...the response to even the attempt wouldn't be near-orgasmic.
Outlander Systems
04-23-17, 16:23
>tin pot despot stroking his e-penis at God Emperor
>thinks GEOTUS will BTFO
>tin pot dictator has tragic ending to life story
As an aside, it's like the NORKs literally built this shit just so the United States Army could tear this down in a symbolic gesture, that echoes throughout history.
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/AEA4/production/_92980744_gettyimages-142828612.jpg
Eurodriver
04-23-17, 17:01
Dude...they aren't. But.....
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/23/north-korea-threatens-to-strike-us-aircraft-carrier-to-show-militarys-force.html
I'm certainly no expert, but I have a hard time believing that...a) they would be able to lumber one of their missiles through and b) the response to even the attempt wouldn't be near-orgasmic.
I should have said "How is NK attacking the CVBG in your scenario because our response would depend upon that"
How is NK attacking the Carl Vinson BG?
The CVBG has got so many ships out there to shoot down so many missiles - anything NK may possibly have short of a nuclear weapon won't reach the carrier (especially now that they are essentially running on full alert 24/7...even moreso than a carrier BG off of NK shore would anyway) It'd be hard to politically justify obliterating all of NK because of an unsuccessful preemptive strike on our warships - but maybe Trump isn't the average cuck POTUS typical to what we've had for >40 years.
If they were stupid enough to try that's an act of war. Should we just ignore it? What if they launched a nuke at our west coast but our high-tech anti-missile missiles shot it down? Do we just ignore that?
Let's break it down to the schoolyard: a kid takes a swing at you, and you block it. Is it over then? Or do you beat the ever-loving shit out of him?
NK has detained 3 US citizens now.
NK has detained 3 US citizens now.
Any U.S. citizens going to North Korea right now are idiots.
I think this guy was actually trying to get out. A professor of some sort I believe.
IMHO time to slap the fat boy silly !!!
keeping him alive so he can see it happen would be best :) put them on trial for human rights violations with all the camps etc..
maybe just life in prison in some nasty jail
let South Korea take control and give it a generation to bring them back to reality
I envision Fat Boy's trembling finger hovering over "the button" as his muddled mind stumbles over the various resultant consequences of pushing it, while he fails to account for the fact that the rest of the world in general and the USA in particular is not subject to his autocratic reality-distortion field.
Doesn't North Korea have a submarine or two? That would be one way. It would be a decidedly less dramatic end, silent gurgling, than the Norks loosing a couple of ASBMs, the result of which would definitely play out better on television.
I envision Fat Boy's trembling finger hovering over "the button" as his muddled mind stumbles over the various resultant consequences of pushing it, while he fails to account for the fact that the rest of the world in general and the USA in particular is not subject to his autocratic reality-distortion field.
Doesn't North Korea have a submarine or two? That would be one way. It would be a decidedly less dramatic end, silent gurgling, than the Norks loosing a couple of ASBMs, the result of which would definitely play out better on television.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess the U.S. Navy is prepared for that. ;)
Also gonna guess the Norks don't have cutting-edge sub technology either. Diesel boats perhaps, which are definitely more "noisy" than nuclear powered ones.
No matter how you look at it the situation is lose-lose for those jackasses.
Everybody on TV hypes up NK as being this big nuclear power yet tgey cant keep their lights on and resort to cannnibalism
Per Americans being detained....they have zero reason to be near,that place
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-23-17, 18:58
You wonder what kind of assets and programs the Chinese having running there? I'm guessing they have some kind of decapitation plan and relationship with major military leaders.
An attack on a CVN group would see all their naval assets and ASM assets zapped. You'd have to do it.
45212
You see there is the problem. They'd see glowing in the dark as an upgrade.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess the U.S. Navy is prepared for that. ;)
Also gonna guess the Norks don't have cutting-edge sub technology either. Diesel boats perhaps, which are definitely more "noisy" than nuclear powered ones.
No matter how you look at it the situation is lose-lose for those jackasses.
According to Wiki - a completely trustworthy source :D - NK has 76 Whiskey class subs (diesel electric). China bought them from Russia and then started building them for themselves, NK bought four from China and then started building them. On the last Russian subs there was a substantial decrease in noise signature, a reduction of 20 dB to 140 dB in comparison to the 160 dB of the original Soviet Project 633 submarines acquired by China. Unknown to me if the NK Whiskeys are that quiet.
They also have one Sinpo-class sub which is reportedly a reverse engineered Soviet Golf-II. This apparently is the platform which launched the two successful SLBM's. It is diesel also.
Many years ago I read a WWII-era novel ("The Berkut") about what happens when Hitler escapes the bunker but is eventually tracked down and captured by Russian agents on Stalin's orders. Things do not go well for Hitler at all.
Wikipedia: The Russians ultimately catch Hitler and bring him back to Stalin in Moscow. Hitler is secretly imprisoned in a hanging cage in a sub-basement of the Kremlin which is too small for Hitler to either stand or lie fully. He is fed scraps through the metal bars of the cage and is not allowed toilet facilities. Over the years, Hitler changes to a filthy, senile beast who has his right leg amputated above the knee and his left leg amputated above the ankle as gangrene sets in. He is finally executed by Petrov when Stalin is on his death bed in 1953, after which the sub-basement in which Hitler was kept is walled off forever.
Maybe somebody ought to pass this on to Fat Boy while there is still time.
NK has detained 3 US citizens now.
North Korea detained a U.S. citizen on Saturday as he attempted to leave the country, bringing the total number of Americans held by the isolated country to three.
Korean-American Tony Kim had spent a month teaching an accounting course at the Pyongyang University of Science and Technology (PUST), the university's chancellor, Chan-Mo Park, told Reuters on Sunday.
The arrest took place on Saturday morning local time, a statement by the university said, and was "related to an investigation into matters that are not connected in any way to PUST".
North Korea was already holding two Americans.
Otto Warmbier, a 22-year-old student, was detained in January last year and sentenced to 15 years of hard labor by a North Korean court for attempting to steal a propaganda banner.
In March 2016, Kim Dong Chul, a 62-year-old Korean-American missionary, was sentenced to 10 years hard labor for subversion. There have been no public appearances of either man since.
The reclusive state is also holding Canadian pastor Hyeon Soo Lim. He was charged with subversion and given a hard labor life sentence in 2015.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-usa-detainee-idUSKBN17P038
Eurodriver
04-23-17, 20:14
An accountant was captured by NK?
Hold my beer...
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-23-17, 22:04
According to Wiki - a completely trustworthy source :D - NK has 76 Whiskey class subs (diesel electric). China bought them from Russia and then started building them for themselves, NK bought four from China and then started building them. On the last Russian subs there was a substantial decrease in noise signature, a reduction of 20 dB to 140 dB in comparison to the 160 dB of the original Soviet Project 633 submarines acquired by China. Unknown to me if the NK Whiskeys are that quiet.
They also have one Sinpo-class sub which is reportedly a reverse engineered Soviet Golf-II. This apparently is the platform which launched the two successful SLBM's. It is diesel also.
Those Seawolfs better be the F15 the seas.
polydeuces
04-23-17, 22:04
Perhaps step back and rethink the seeming invincibilty of any aircraftcarrier battlegroup.
Quite the opposite:
Looking at actual wargame results carriers got sunk by dieselsubs at least twice; if memory serves me by the Candian abd Dutch navy.
Quite the black eye for the navy and very much suppressed.....
Bottom line, they make for VERY hard to miss targets.
Perhaps step back and rethink the seeming invincibilty of any aircraftcarrier battlegroup.
Quite the opposite:
Looking at actual wargame results carriers got sunk by dieselsubs at least twice; if memory serves me by the Candian abd Dutch navy.
Quite the black eye for the navy and very much suppressed.....
Bottom line, they make for VERY hard to miss targets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwPqlpJN0rc
.......but all that aside, I see what you are saying. Everything floats til it dont
An accountant was captured by NK?
Hold my beer...
Yeah, and his work-life balance is still better than yours...or so it seems...;)
Dude...they aren't. But.....
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/23/north-korea-threatens-to-strike-us-aircraft-carrier-to-show-militarys-force.html
I'm certainly no expert, but I have a hard time believing that...a) they would be able to lumber one of their missiles through and b) the response to even the attempt wouldn't be near-orgasmic.
Sounds like internal propaganda, not intended for anyone else but their own citizens.
Sounds like internal propaganda, not intended for anyone else but their own citizens.
Likely true, although they are spouting it to media outlets that North Korean people just don't have access to.
Grand58742
04-24-17, 07:16
I'd park the entire battle group as close to the international maritime limit and dare them to do a thing.
Eurodriver
04-24-17, 07:46
Yeah, and his work-life balance is still better than yours...or so it seems...;)
The timing of that guys capture sure is suspect. Probably couldn't handle the hours anymore and just walked in to the Party Office with a burning picture of Mr. Kim himself.
Perhaps step back and rethink the seeming invincibilty of any aircraftcarrier battlegroup.
Quite the opposite:
Looking at actual wargame results carriers got sunk by dieselsubs at least twice; if memory serves me by the Candian abd Dutch navy.
Quite the black eye for the navy and very much suppressed.....
Bottom line, they make for VERY hard to miss targets.
I'd give the Canadian and Dutch Navies a few more points for having better training and discipline than the NORK's. Plus , how often have the NORK's war gamed against an actual U.S. CBG?
Same with all of these anti-ship missiles that are supposed to be so fearsome that we should just park our CVN's and never leave port. It's one thing to hit a stationary barge/towed target. It's a completely different scenario when there are multiple vessels dedicated to defending the CVN in a dynamic sea battle.
I'm not saying we shouldn't take these threats seriously, but we shouldn't ignore the layers of defense that a CBG has. Plus, once the birds are launched the CVN is gonna put some distance between itself and any threats PDQ.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
I'd give the Canadian and Dutch Navies a few more points for having better training and discipline than the NORK's. Plus , how often have the NORK's war gamed against an actual U.S. CBG?
Same with all of these anti-ship missiles that are supposed to be so fearsome that we should just park our CVN's and never leave port. It's one thing to hit a stationary barge/towed target. It's a completely different scenario when there are multiple vessels dedicated to defending the CVN in a dynamic sea battle.
I'm not saying we shouldn't take these threats seriously, but we shouldn't ignore the layers of defense that a CBG has. Plus, once the birds are launched the CVN is gonna put some distance between itself and any threats PDQ.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
Truth. A CBG understands it is at risk of AS missiles and takes precautions accordingly. Of the navies I would be concerned about, NK is not amongst them. I fully concede a blind squirrel gets a nut and a lucky strike is always possible.
All I know is that one of the sure fire ways to get people needlessly killed is by underestimating your opponent and having a big ego. I hope the guys in charge of the CVN task force don't fall into that category. That's A LOT of lives out there.
Trying anything against the Vinson group is sure suicide for fat boy and more importantly his entire staff. Maybe, just maybe one or all f them have the balls to kill that little ****er before some bad shit happens to a lot of people.
All I know is that one of the sure fire ways to get people needlessly killed is by underestimating your opponent and having a big ego. I hope the guys in charge of the CVN task force don't fall into that category. That's A LOT of lives out there.
Navy commanders tend to learn and remember lessons. I assure you they recall what happened when the Iranians ****ed with our boat a while back, and they are sticklers for procedure. So it doesn't matter to them if they are facing the Russian Navy or the Skipper and Gilligan on the S.S. Minnow, they won't underestimate NK.
An internal solution with the fat bastard dead would be out-freaking-standing.
The administration has called the entire Senate to the White House Wednesday for a briefing on North Korea.......
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/24/entire-senate-being-called-to-white-house-for-north-korea-briefing.html
"You just don't see the United Nations, like, solving conflicts." Lol. The man will call a spade a spade. Love it.
vicious_cb
04-24-17, 15:19
If you think the norks have a chance of sinking a CVN, Ill just leave this here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcwDfaY4OW4
hotrodder636
04-24-17, 16:59
Diesel boats while submerged are quiet, they run on batteries. Only run the diesel on the surface.
Those Seawolfs better be the F15 the seas.
There are only 3 Seawolf class boats...special use/purpose.
The Virginia class on the other hand....they are badass.
...and, what would China do?
Cower in fear of the sub in that strike group. Oh, I meant that's what they're doing.
When I saw the "live" video online of that little Porker reviewing that huge military parade and display of weaponry, I thought it would have been appropriate to have a TLAM or two hit his reviewing stand. The optics of that would have been priceless.
I just don't know how fast the targeting can be updated for a target like that? Now we have the USS Michigan, Ohio Class sub moving into the theater of operations. Doesn't it have the capacity for 150 cruise missiles?
When I saw the "live" video online of that little Porker reviewing that huge military parade and display of weaponry, I thought it would have been appropriate to have a TLAM or two hit his reviewing stand. The optics of that would have been priceless.
I just don't know how fast the targeting can be updated for a target like that? Now we have the USS Michigan, Ohio Class sub moving into the theater of operations. Doesn't it have the capacity for 150 cruise missiles?
I'll wager there's more in-theater than we know about. I'm okay with that.
If you think the norks have a chance of sinking a CVN, Ill just leave this here.
Yeah...it would take a substantial military effort to even have a remotely realistic chance of making a dent in even one of our eleven carrier strike groups. Relative to that required depth, it's interesting to note that North Korea's $15 billion GDP is about half that of Los Angeles County alone.
I'll wager there's more in-theater than we know about. I'm okay with that.
I wouldn't doubt that. I'm not an expert on Naval Operations, but I've refueled on certain notable occasions on surface ships. Grabbed some chow from the Swabs. Those dixie cup wearing folks eat a helluva lot better than Army personnel.
Those dixie cup wearing folks eat a helluva lot better than Army personnel.
And the Air Force people eat the best :)
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-24-17, 21:16
Diesel boats while submerged are quiet, they run on batteries. Only run the diesel on the surface.
There are only 3 Seawolf class boats...special use/purpose.
The Virginia class on the other hand....they are badass.
Just thinking eight tubes versus four. 79 Whiskeys is a lot to chug through.
And the Air Force people eat the best :) I concur!
And the Air Force people eat the best :)
I don't know how they'd find the time since they're always zipping around at high speed. Our term as Army rotor pilots for Jet Aircraft was "Fast Movers".
I've had some AF food and it's not bad, but you never see a fat Airman. I have seen some hefty CPOs in the Navy....:smile:
Diesel boats while submerged are quiet, they run on batteries. Only run the diesel on the surface.
While diesel electric boats can be quiet submerged, my question is how quiet are Short Round's subs? I mean, sure the latest and greatest in proper repair and maintenance can be damn quiet, but I would be willing to wager the Norks aren't running the tightest navy out there and the tech we have I would imagine is pretty damn good. i mean there used to be the running joke during the Cold War that we knew whenever the Soviet's started up one of their nuclear subs and we knew which one just by the sound signature. "K-26 just veered to the right." "How do you know it was K-26?" "They got a bad bearing in their propeller." This is also assuming that we haven't been tracking every waterborne movement that they have been doing anyway, which I think we probably have. it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to say the Nork fleet has the proverbial gun to the back of the head.
hotrodder636
04-25-17, 00:15
Agreed that the NORK boats are likely not the best kept, high quality diesel boat, just making a statement that when running on batteries, diesel boats are quiet.
While diesel electric boats can be quiet submerged, my question is how quiet are Short Round's subs? I mean, sure the latest and greatest in proper repair and maintenance can be damn quiet, but I would be willing to wager the Norks aren't running the tightest navy out there and the tech we have I would imagine is pretty damn good. i mean there used to be the running joke during the Cold War that we knew whenever the Soviet's started up one of their nuclear subs and we knew which one just by the sound signature. "K-26 just veered to the right." "How do you know it was K-26?" "They got a bad bearing in their propeller." This is also assuming that we haven't been tracking every waterborne movement that they have been doing anyway, which I think we probably have. it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to say the Nork fleet has the proverbial gun to the back of the head.
hotrodder636
04-25-17, 00:19
The Seawolf is the gunship of the sub world but with only 3 of them, one of which very specialized, they are not as prevalent as the LA and Virginia class. Plus the Virginia class is badass technologically and newer than the Seawolf. I have many friends who were on all 3 classes and the Virginia is the ride.
Just thinking eight tubes versus four. 79 Whiskeys is a lot to chug through.
US nuclear-powered sub approaches Korean Waters
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/25/north-korea-reportedly-holds-live-fire-drill-as-us-nuclear-powered-sub-approaches.html
Interesting to see this article. They make it seem like someone at the Pentagon suddenly just said "gee...maybe we should send in a submarine". If there is only one US fast-attack submarine in Korean waters at the moment, and maybe a boomer or two, I'd be astonished (and very disappointed).
US nuclear-powered sub approaches Korean Waters
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/25/north-korea-reportedly-holds-live-fire-drill-as-us-nuclear-powered-sub-approaches.html
Interesting to see this article. They make it seem like someone at the Pentagon suddenly just said "gee...maybe we should send in a submarine". If there is only one US fast-attack submarine in Korean waters at the moment, and maybe a boomer or two, I'd be astonished (and very disappointed).
Two fast boats are usually attached to a CSG; of course, that number can go up or down based on needs or missions. I agree, I would be surprised if there were not more than the two assigned subs.
The way I hear it, the best defense against submarines is another submarine. Assuming it's true that North Korea has approximately 20 Romeo class submarines (1,800 tons), 40 Sang-O-class submarines (300 tons) and 10 midget submarines including the Yono-class submarine (130 tons), then I'd be astonished (and disappointed) if those waters weren't littered with US fast-attack submarines.
The way I hear it, the best defense against submarines is another submarine. Assuming it's true that North Korea has approximately 20 Romeo class submarines (1,800 tons), 40 Sang-O-class submarines (300 tons) and 10 midget submarines including the Yono-class submarine (130 tons), then I'd be astonished (and disappointed) if those waters weren't littered with US fast-attack submarines.
Definitely fertile ASW training....
I have to believe that the US is not going to take even the slightest risk in protecting the Vinson CSG, and that in the event that an armed response is necessary for defense, that response would be overwhelming and definitive. Politically, I would think that General Mattis would want to leave the rest of the world with no doubt as to us capability and especially US resolve.
I have to believe that the US is not going to take even the slightest risk in protecting the Vinson CSG....
All ships and boats in a CSG are to protect and support the carrier. I believe if there is a hint, a scintilla of a whiff, of an attack on the carrier, the response would not be subtle.
Eurodriver
04-25-17, 11:22
I have to believe that the US is not going to take even the slightest risk in protecting the Vinson CSG, and that in the event that an armed response is necessary for defense, that response would be overwhelming and definitive. Politically, I would think that General Mattis would want to leave the rest of the world with no doubt as to us capability and especially US resolve.
I love this post.
wilson1911
04-25-17, 19:47
Would the NK ships just be able to "ping" all of our subs.. ?? I'm not sure what tech fat boys subs/ships have, I would assume it has something that is standard.
Would the NK ships just be able to "ping" all of our subs.. ?? I'm not sure what tech fat boys subs/ships have, I would assume it has something that is standard.
Can't ping 'em without thereby hanging a big sign around your neck on everyone's sonar screen "HERE I AM". I'm no expert on US Naval submarine doctrine, but IIUC, such a ping would likely be followed immediately by two or four Mark 48 torpedos on the way the to that "HERE I AM" location.
Is this thread for generic Korean Peninsula news and discussion, or only DPRK threats to CVN-70?
Outlander Systems
04-26-17, 13:23
Yes..
Is this thread for generic Korean Peninsula news and discussion, or only DPRK threats to CVN-70?
Yes..
You can't answer an "or" question with "yes"!
You can't answer an "or" question with "yes"!
HAHA!
Oh he did tho. I think in this context it is acceptable.
Well, I'm making a new generic korea thread :p
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