View Full Version : Korean Peninsula news and discussion
12 April - China stopping import of DPRK coal
http://www.businessinsider.com/china-north-korea-coal-imports-2017-4
15 April - DPRK tests missile, explodes just after takeoff
https://www.wired.com/2017/04/north-koreas-failed-rocket-test-eases-experts-worst-case-scenario-fears/
20 April - ROK military ready for "immediate response"
http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/national/2017/04/20/37/0301000000AEN20170420004900315F.html
22 April - DPRK threatens Australia with nuclear strike
http://www.9news.com.au/world/2017/04/22/23/42/blunt-north-korea-warning-to-australia
23 April - UK freezes assets of DPRK company based in south London
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/23/uk-freezes-assets-of-north-korean-company-in-south-london-insurance-nuclear-weapons
23 April - DPRK threatens to sink USS Carl Vinson
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/23/north-korea-threatens-to-strike-us-aircraft-carrier-to-show-militarys-force.html
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?195907-Attack-the-Carl-Vinson
24 April - DPRK detains US Citizen (total is now 3 US citizens held)
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39689559
25 April - USS Michigan (Ohio-class) docks in ROK
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-usa-idUSKBN17Q06N
25 April - Chinese state-run newspaper: China would not engage militarily if US conducts surgical strikes on DPRK nuclear facilities
http://www.atimes.com/article/global-times-china-accept-surgical-strike-north-korea/
26 April - THAAD to be online within days in ROK
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/04/26/525724072/thaad-missile-system-will-be-online-within-days-in-south-korea-admiral-says
26 April - China launches first domestically-produced carrier; IOC expected in 2020
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-39715228
26 April - Senators arrive at White House for briefing on DPRK
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-nuclear-usa-senate-idUSKBN17Q1LR
26 April - Chinese troops at DPRK border on high alert
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2017/04/26/2017042601025.html
27 April - DPRK agrees to first ever UN rights expert visit
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/north-korea-agrees-to-first-ever-un-rights-expert-visit/articleshow/58398992.cms
27 April - China continues to tighten sanctions on DPRK
http://www.voanews.com/a/china-eyes-tighter-sanctions-on-north-korea-but-limits-remain/3827848.html
27 April - DPRK elites think KJU is weak and if he died, would choose a non-Kim successor
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/26/north-korean-elites-increasingly-think-kim-jong-un-is-a-weak-leader-new-study-says.html
28 April - SecState Tillerson talks to UN Security Council: failure to act on DPRK nuke/missile developments could be "catastrophic"; Russia disagrees
https://www.yahoo.com/news/tillerson-lay-u-n-groundwork-boost-north-korea-050305257.html
28 April - Trump considers DPRK #1 nat'l sec priority
http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/northkorea/2017/04/28/0401000000AEN20170428000200315.html
28 April - Trump calling for diplomatic tact but sees possibility for military action (chuckman)
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-exclusive-idUSKBN17U04E
28 April - DPRK getting "antsy" (chuckman)
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3436947/north-korea-trump-brink-of-nuclear-war-blackmailing-gangster/
28 April - DPRK launches probable KN-17 MRBM (SCUD variant) 25 miles
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/28/north-korea-test-fires-ballistic-missile.html
1 May - China looking for Korean translators near DPRK border (Outlander Systems)
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2017/05/103_228584.html
1 May - US may pay DPRK to hold talks
http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_northkorea/793033.html
2 May - Failed DPRK missile on 28 April was headed for Russia and was intentionally detonated
http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/failed-north-korean-missile-was-headed-for-russia-seoul-economy-daily-reports-but-was-detonated/news-story/ecd7c3406c537fb0d21f3a124938370d
2 May - THAAD operational in ROK
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/02/world/asia/thaad-north-korea-missile-defense-us.html
2 May - DPRK possibly accelerating SLBM test program (Outlander Systems)
http://38north.org/2017/05/nampo050117/
3 May - China issues final warning to DPRK regarding nuclear weapons
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2017/05/103_228717.html
3 May - DPRK says nuclear program will continue regardless of China's warning
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/04/world/asia/north-korea-nuclear-weapons-china.html
4 May - US House almost unanimously approves more sanctions on DPRK
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-usa-congress-sanctions-idUSKBN1802HB
4 May - USSOCOM commander says they're ready for counter-nuclear action
http://tribunist.com/news/us-special-ops-ready-to-act-against-north-koreas-weapons-sites-according-to-commander/
5 May - DPRK claims CIA and IS (ROK's version of the CIA, not the Islamic State) tried to kill KJU with "biochemical substances"
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39815561
9 May - Moon Jae-in wins ROK election, favors talks with DPRK (pingdork)
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39855956
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southkorea-election-idUSKBN18425S
9 May - Japan wants Tomahawks and Aegis Ashore
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/10057/japan-may-buy-tomahawks-for-retaliatory-strikes-on-north-korean-missile-sites
10 May - US and DPRK diplomats meet in Norway
https://www.yahoo.com/news/away-sabre-rattling-north-korean-044522962.html
Looks like people are sick of the BS.
I find it almost amusing that the sub docked at Pusan. That my friends is a display. If it was unseen (as in submerged) off the Nork coast then that is being in the batter's box. We're rattling sabers too. If nothing else fat-boy will get the message loud and clear that, as Firefly said, people are sick of his shit.
I always figured a preemptive strike would be too politically risky considering all the dependents and civilian DoD in Seoul
Edit I'm hoping anyway
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Best quote I read today, from CINCPAC, said we want to bring fat boy "to his senses, not to his knees." Great quote.
And yeah, we actually have to prove our subs are there by having them dock and have a photo op, otherwise they'd never know lol....
Doc Safari
04-26-17, 15:24
Best quote I read today, from CINCPAC, said we want to bring fat boy "to his senses, not to his knees." Great quote.
And yeah, we actually have to prove our subs are there by having them dock and have a photo op, otherwise they'd never know lol....
I think that's a mistake. You can only warn a person so many times before it becomes ineffective. I think we passed that point years ago. Time to bite the bullet and at least interdict their infrastructure or something.
About this time in 2016 we were at Defcon 3, currently we are holding at 4.
So apparently, the Senate briefing at the White House didn't accomplish much nor divulge much information to Senators. The meeting was at the request of Mitch McConnell.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-briefs-senators-on-very-grave-threat-from-north-korea/2017/04/26/12a5c21a-2a9e-11e7-be51-b3fc6ff7faee_story.html
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-26-17, 17:31
So apparently, the Senate briefing at the White House didn't accomplish much nor divulge much information to Senators. The meeting was at the request of Mitch McConnell.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-briefs-senators-on-very-grave-threat-from-north-korea/2017/04/26/12a5c21a-2a9e-11e7-be51-b3fc6ff7faee_story.html
They only got to see the briefing if they sat through a presentation about buying a Condo at Trump property.
They only got to see the briefing if they sat through a presentation about buying a Condo at Trump property.
I almost thought this wasn't a joke :p
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-26-17, 23:05
The one thing I find terrifying about Kim Jong Un is his utter disregard for his people. The war of attrition that would occur in order to bring NorK to it's knees/senses would result in terrific losses of civilian life.
One of my co-workers with some insight into the South Korean mind set said many of them don't want to pass down an impending war to their children, and as time goes on, that war looks like it will cost more and more lives in the process.
The one thing I find terrifying about Kim Jong Un is his utter disregard for his people. The war of attrition that would occur in order to bring NorK to it's knees/senses would result in terrific losses of civilian life.
Mao did it with the cultural revolution, Stalin did it with Ukraine, seems to be pretty SOP for communists.
I think that's a mistake. You can only warn a person so many times before it becomes ineffective. I think we passed that point years ago. Time to bite the bullet and at least interdict their infrastructure or something.
No, not a mistake, a perfect political statement. We can end that shrimp's life at any time. But the military is speaking out saying we are on record for trying to resolve it in non-military ways. What the Admiral said was part of building a case.
Now it may come to military intervention, and if it does, we can say, "well, we said we wanted to work it out."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/27/world/asia/north-korea-thaad-missile-defense-us-china.html?_r=0
When reading this I could only think of: "A fully armed an operational battle station"
First post updated. In one of the new stories, DPRK agrees to UN rights expert visit. I think it's hilarious that she and/or the UN thinks that anything she sees won't be heavily staged or censored by the DPRK government.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BotDYFR9ULk
In one of the new stories, DPRK agrees to UN rights expert visit. I think it's hilarious that she and/or the UN thinks that anything she sees won't be heavily staged or censored by the DPRK government.
Like what happened with Iraq and Iran.....
Minor article, nothing really new: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-usa-idUSKBN17T0AW
Some quotes:
China on Thursday welcomed an apparently softer tone by the United States on the North Korean nuclear and missile crisis but stressed its opposition to a U.S. missile defence system being deployed in South Korea.
South Korea and the United States agreed on Thursday on "swift punitive measures" against North Korea in the event of further provocation.
"The deployment of the THAAD anti-missile system in South Korea damages the regional strategic balance and stability. The Chinese side is resolutely opposed to this," Defence Ministry spokesman Yang Yujun told reporters.
"As long as America continues its hostile acts of aggression, we will never stop nuclear and missile tests," said Sok Chol Won, director of the North's Institute of Human Rights at the Academy of Social Sciences.
...North's Institute of Human Rights
Is that across the street from the Ministry of Plenty?
Is that across the street from the Ministry of Plenty?
Classic!
How is a defense system aggressive?
Outlander Systems
04-27-17, 20:12
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN17U04E
Mao did it with the cultural revolution, Stalin did it with Ukraine, seems to be pretty SOP for communists.
You forgot about that nice guy Pol Pot.
This is getting a lot of press in Hawaii but isn't news really:
http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/news/2017/04/27/head-of-pacific-command-says-n-korea-clearly-in-a.html
What I'm telling my family is that yes, there could be a viable threat in the future. But right now it's likely safe. We have some interceptors in the State, a lot in the water around the State, and DPRK has no missile that has been tested to reach that far. And that's assuming the DPRK has miniaturized its nukes, it has a more than a few of them, and that they'd rather use them on a long shot (both literally and figuratively) than tactically on the Korean peninsula where it might be a lot harder to intercept and provide more gains.
You forgot about that nice guy Pol Pot.
And a few Eastern Europeans
This is getting a lot of press in Hawaii but isn't news really:
http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/news/2017/04/27/head-of-pacific-command-says-n-korea-clearly-in-a.html
What I'm telling my family is that yes, there could be a viable threat in the future. But right now it's likely safe. We have some interceptors in the State, a lot in the water around the State, and DPRK has no missile that has been tested to reach that far. And that's assuming the DPRK has miniaturized its nukes, it has a more than a few of them, and that they'd rather use them on a long shot (both literally and figuratively) than tactically on the Korean peninsula where it might be a lot harder to intercept and provide more gains.
Even if they could miniaturize their nukes, even if that missile can get off the launch pad, even if it has the range, they still have not demonstrated an acceptable degree of accuracy with anything yet.
Trumps got a multifaceted attack going on here. It must have been dreamed up by the Pentagon and CIA. The US is threatening force against NK while making China the NK Military, and Elites in NK extremely nervous. There are many scenarios that could play out:
The truth is that we are making Kim paranoid crazy on purpose. That is why we have so much military moving in. In case he tries something really dumb. I don't believe our intent is to use big force against NK, it is to create 'regime change'. It's true, we are not there to bring Kim to his knees, we are there to bring him to his senses. By that we mean get Kim to step aside and live the rest of his fat degenerate life in exile....OR die.
Thoughts:
- If we had to fight NK we would decapitate them and destroy their command and control. I'm guessing their comms are primitive. We would take out their satellites and command centers, destroy their radar installations. But the artillery and rockets would be the problem.
- China could infiltrate NK and kill Kim ending NK as we know it.
- There could be a coup with the promise of better relations with China.
- The Elite of NK could engineer a coup with NK military with promises of money and a better life. Engineered by China and/or the US/SK
- Kim could have an unfortunate accident or untimely death with the help of his friends.
I think the US is signaling to NK's leaders to dump Kim. They are pretty brain washed, we'll see.
Even if they could miniaturize their nukes, even if that missile can get off the launch pad, even if it has the range, they still have not demonstrated an acceptable degree of accuracy with anything yet.
I'm thinking a NK nuke on a Sub or Boat just offshore or in a harbor could make for a bad day.
Even if they could miniaturize their nukes, even if that missile can get off the launch pad, even if it has the range, they still have not demonstrated an acceptable degree of accuracy with anything yet.
That's not completely fair, they've managed to hit the ocean each time.
This is getting a lot of press in Hawaii but isn't news really:
http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/news/2017/04/27/head-of-pacific-command-says-n-korea-clearly-in-a.html
What I'm telling my family is that yes, there could be a viable threat in the future. But right now it's likely safe. We have some interceptors in the State, a lot in the water around the State, and DPRK has no missile that has been tested to reach that far. And that's assuming the DPRK has miniaturized its nukes, it has a more than a few of them, and that they'd rather use them on a long shot (both literally and figuratively) than tactically on the Korean peninsula where it might be a lot harder to intercept and provide more gains.
And when they put a nuke in a cargo container surrounded by other cargo containers on a freighter registered out of Mongolia and park it in Kulolia?
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Bring back SEATO and Tiger Stripes.
There,I said it.
And when they put a nuke in a cargo container surrounded by other cargo containers on a freighter registered out of Mongolia and park it in Kulolia?
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That could have happened 15 years ago. No difference now and then.
Ill let you all know when my company stops flying air freight into Incheon/Seoul. Until then, same shit, different dear leader in a different decade... thats according to the mechanic I spoke with a few weeks ago in Incheon.
Moose-Knuckle
04-28-17, 04:45
The nuke sniffers have been in the air since all this kicked up.
Listened to a British journalist the other day who has lived in Seoul since '82. One of the things that struck me was that he said many South Koreans really don't want to fight, i.e. kill the North Koreans because they are brothers. One of the reasons why we've been their in force since the armistice was signed.
Another thing I see a lot is people here in the West underestimate them. Seoul has just under 26 million people living there not to mention something like 30k US personnel. It is the North's primary target if anything goes down and it is only 35 miles from the DMZ.
Major Ed Dames who has a storied 30+ year career in the IC also brought up a point in a recent interview that most over look. He stated that North Korea is nothing like Iraq or Afghanistan. He said they are hard line fanatics on a whole other level, we haven't fought anything like that since Imperial Japan where every last man, woman, and child would have fought to the death for their emperor.
I watched a NatGeo documentary from a few years back where they smuggled their crew in with an eye surgeon from Nepal. Their guise was that they were a film crew documenting the humanitarian work. HOLY ****, those people are completely brainwashed. No doubt they would all die for their Dear Leader.
Worth the 45 minutes, probably the best documentary I've seen on the North. Incredibly sad, especially when they compare the body weights and heights of 7 year old boys in the South to 7 year old boys in the North, hit me right in the feels for real.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlJUGZPanB8
Eurodriver
04-28-17, 07:03
20cm shorter and 10kg lighter than his brother in South Korea.
No wonder we have a 6'3" requirement in the DMZ :)
Tillerson meeting with UN today.
Trump calling for diplomatic tact but sees possibility for military action.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-exclusive-idUSKBN17U04E
NK geeting increasingly antsy:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3436947/north-korea-trump-brink-of-nuclear-war-blackmailing-gangster/
Tillerson meeting with UN today.
Trump calling for diplomatic tact but sees possibility for military action.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-exclusive-idUSKBN17U04E
NK geeting increasingly antsy:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3436947/north-korea-trump-brink-of-nuclear-war-blackmailing-gangster/
Thanks, updated first post with your two articles plus two more:
28 April - SecState Tillerson talks to UN Security Council: failure to act on DPRK nuke/missile developments could be "catastrophic". Russia disagrees.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/tillerson-lay-u-n-groundwork-boost-north-korea-050305257.html
28 April - Trump considers DPRK #1 nat'l sec priority
http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/northkorea/2017/04/28/0401000000AEN20170428000200315.html
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-28-17, 14:31
Thanks, updated first post with your two articles plus two more:
28 April - SecState Tillerson talks to UN Security Council: failure to act on DPRK nuke/missile developments could be "catastrophic". Russia disagrees.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/tillerson-lay-u-n-groundwork-boost-north-korea-050305257.html
It's like your neighbor has a crazy pitbull puppy that can jump fences. The one neighbor has a 4ft fence, the other has a 5ft fence and you have an 8ft fence. The dog can jump the 5 ft fence if it wants to, but can't make the 8ft, yet- it is growing, and getting crazier. Your neighbors tell you to keep quite and not provoke the dogs owner by either putting an extension on the fence or calling animal control and culling the dog. But your kids play in the back yard, and the dog barks and threatens to jump over the fence. Are you going to wait until the dog can jump over your fence?
I saw that SK was pissed that Trump mentioned that the THAAD cost $1B. Could we at least get a deposit on it?
Whiskey_Bravo
04-28-17, 17:15
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/north-korea-test-fires-ballistic-missile-u-s-official-says-n752736
Another test and another exploded missile. Are they that bad or do we have a shark with a laser?
Averageman
04-28-17, 17:17
I saw that SK was pissed that Trump mentioned that the THAAD cost $1B. Could we at least get a deposit on it?
As much as we would like China to get involved with the NORK's, why don't we explain to SOK's that this isn't 1952 and we want some money on our investment back?
They're forgetting their history and have on occasion allowed their kids to bite the hand that freed them.
That and my Step-Dad wants his frozen off toes back, they're somewhere North of the Yalu River, call us when you retrieve them please...
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/north-korea-test-fires-ballistic-missile-u-s-official-says-n752736
https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-warns-north-korea-tensions-135420421.html
The Chinese better make a more visible effort toward reigning their puppet in before he gets things spinning out of control. The only thing worse than several hundred million Norks glowing as they starve is them glowing, starving and heading North toward China.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/north-korea-test-fires-ballistic-missile-u-s-official-says-n752736
Another test and another exploded missile. Are they that bad or do we have a shark with a laser?
CNN claims it landed in Sea of Japan, didn't mention it being a failed test.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/politics/north-korea-un-meeting/
Outlander Systems
04-28-17, 17:20
My virgin mangina is ready for my NORK overlords.
They literally can't get 1950s technology to work.
I
I give the US .mil 72 hours before some E1 gets an Article 15 for taking a selfie whilst pissing on Kim Jong Lol's broken statue.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/north-korea-test-fires-ballistic-missile-u-s-official-says-n752736
Another test and another exploded missile. Are they that bad or do we have a shark with a laser?
"The missile has been assessed to be a KN-17, a former Scud missile that officials believe is being tested to one day target ships. It flew roughly 25 miles and was in the air for about 15 minutes, officials tell Fox News. The KN-17 was launched from Pukchang." http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/28/north-korea-test-fires-ballistic-missile.html
Outlander Systems
04-28-17, 17:49
He really needs to cut the bullshit.
"The missile has been assessed to be a KN-17, a former Scud missile that officials believe is being tested to one day target ships. It flew roughly 25 miles and was in the air for about 15 minutes, officials tell Fox News. The KN-17 was launched from Pukchang." http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/28/north-korea-test-fires-ballistic-missile.html
15 minute flight went 25 miles? Do Nork missiles use prop power?
Straight up maybe? Doesn't sound right???
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15 minute flight went 25 miles? Do Nork missiles use prop power?
Straight up maybe? Doesn't sound right???
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Granted my car can not fly but it can do well over 100 MPH.
Outlander Systems
04-28-17, 18:02
Missile has to overcome the earth's rotation.
Granted my car can not fly but it can do well over 100 MPH.
15 minute flight went 25 miles? Do Nork missiles use prop power?
Straight up maybe? Doesn't sound right???
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I'm guessing ballistic trajectory but the distance is just measured on the surface of the planet. They didn't mention altitude. It also could have been a failure that spiraled out of control or otherwise lost power and just fell the last few minutes/miles.
US Pacific Command says the missile broke up over North Korea and did not reach the Sea of Japan.
https://twitter.com/LMartinezABC/status/858081052321079296
https://twitter.com/LucasFoxNews/status/858080578771574784
Outlander Systems
04-28-17, 18:46
Most likely. Probably launched damn near zenith.
I'm guessing ballistic trajectory but the distance is just measured on the surface of the planet. They didn't mention altitude. It also could have been a failure that spiraled out of control or otherwise lost power and just fell the last few minutes/miles.
US Pacific Command says the missile broke up over North Korea and did not reach the Sea of Japan.
https://twitter.com/LMartinezABC/status/858081052321079296
https://twitter.com/LucasFoxNews/status/858080578771574784
You know what.....it was a zany experiment, and we ALL had a good laugh, but the joke is over
It's time for North Korea to grow up, get a real job, and move out.
They aren't a nuclear power, they cant and wont start WWIII, and if you execute people with AAA guns what does that really say about you?
This all started as a college prank that went too far for too long
North Korea is kinda like your teen kid living in his tree fort with the extension cord from your house !!!
he talks about how independent he is when he is at your table for dinner since his tree house has no fridge :)
Averageman
04-28-17, 20:27
North Korea is kinda like your teen kid living in his tree fort with the extension cord from your house !!!
He talks about how independent he is when he is at your table for dinner since his tree house has no fridge :)
The combination of an extension cord, a George Foreman Grill, White Bread, Velvetta and a Tree House do not an adult make.
As much as we would like China to get involved with the NORK's, why don't we explain to SOK's that this isn't 1952 and we want some money on our investment back?
They're forgetting their history and have on occasion allowed their kids to bite the hand that freed them.
That and my Step-Dad wants his frozen off toes back, they're somewhere North of the Yalu River, call us when you retrieve them please...
Thank that hard man for us, will you?
I just finished the book 'Devotion' last week. It was a good reminder of how rough the Korean vets had it. Was your step-dad 8th Army?
I think South Korea doesn't want to pay for a couple reasons.
1. Why pay if you don't have to
2. All that Chinese hate can be focused on someone else
3. It avoids some domestic political fallout as THAAD only barely has support of the ROK public
4. They already made a deal called a SOFA where they provide land and infrastructure while the US deploys and operates. Us asking them to pay is going back on our part of the agreement. We shouldn't have done that.
my dad flew F-86 in Korea :)
Moose-Knuckle
04-29-17, 05:11
20cm shorter and 10kg lighter than his brother in South Korea.
No wonder we have a 6'3" requirement in the DMZ :)
I've heard that and wondered if that was true.
My ex-wife's grandfather was in the Army occupational forces in Japan after the war, he said the same thing.
It was a psychological and intimidation factor, big red meat eating American round eyes!
Some more info about missiles...
Missile may not have failed, it could have just been a first stage test:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n9pJdIq3pY
Article on how DPRK obtains missile technology:
http://www.atimes.com/article/un-report-unpicks-north-korea-sources-missile-technology/
I don't think China will lay low to a US strike.
They also (ultimately) have Russia on their side with all the Mackinder followers in our government and gullible public.
We destroyed 1/2 their major cities last time so they are HYPER-VIGILANT. I get it.
Ask how many nations we've invaded since 1990.
How many had nuclear weapons?
It's a deterrent.
If an island just "popped up" and I became the leader... guess what? I'd want a nuclear arsenal: you don't have to respect me but you would not dare disrespect me.
"Don't tread on me" and stuff.
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"The missile has been assessed to be a KN-17, a former Scud missile that officials believe is being tested to one day target ships. It flew roughly 25 miles and was in the air for about 15 minutes, officials tell Fox News. The KN-17 was launched from Pukchang." http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/28/north-korea-test-fires-ballistic-missile.html
Someone is being deceitful.
15 minutes and 25 miles?
Umkay....
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Outlander Systems
04-30-17, 09:25
This particular "island" brings nothing to the table with regards to international trade.
This particular "island" is the drunk neighbor shooting off Mexican Fireworks whilst the civilized neighbors are having cookouts and garage sales.
Do that, and expect to be stepped upon...
I don't think China will lay low to a US strike.
They also (ultimately) have Russia on their side with all the Mackinder followers in our government and gullible public.
We destroyed 1/2 their major cities last time so they are HYPER-VIGILANT. I get it.
Ask how many nations we've invaded since 1990.
How many had nuclear weapons?
It's a deterrent.
If an island just "popped up" and I became the leader... guess what? I'd want a nuclear arsenal: you don't have to respect me but you would not dare disrespect me.
"Don't tread on me" and stuff.
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This particular "island" brings nothing to the table with regards to international trade.
This particular "island" is the drunk neighbor shooting off Mexican Fireworks whilst the civilized neighbors are having cookouts and garage sales.
Do that, and expect to be stepped upon...
Easy to talk it but YOU won't be riding in any of those ships, will you?
No. Not likely.
Korea has been a Chinese protectorate for over one thousand years.
Yes, they (China) would prefer to avoid a direct conflict (with anyone) but the American public is downright stupid. We cannot defend our cities or borders yet everyone around the world "is a threat."
Crazy...
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Easy to talk it but won't be riding in any of those ships, will you?
No. Not likely.
Korea has been a Chinese protectorate for over one thousand years.
Yes, they (China) would prefer to avoid a direct conflict (with anyone) but the American public is downright stupid. We cannot defend our cities or borders yet everyone around the world "is a threat."
Crazy...
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Are you saying North Korea isn't a threat? How should we deal with them?
Are you saying North Korea isn't a threat? How should we deal with them?
Please explain how they ARE a threat...
Was Iraq, Libya, Syria a threat? What must we go through to begin to THINK for ourselves???
Just because some globalist piece of crap tells you something does not make it true.
Read Mackinder and Brzezinski and you can balance the neocons, position versus the people that gave them the theories of global domination. You can also read Engdahl who also summarizes it well.
How would I handle it?
I'd not be trying to control that region of the world so I'd not be involved militarily.
I get what we are attempting to do but it's NOT going to work. You/I/we/the West **AIN'T** gonna control Eurasia. Period. GTFO it. We will get nuked trying and we won't have a soul to blame but ourselves.
The term "stay in your lane" applies to Foreign Policy much more so than it could ever apply to individuals.
Figuring out WHY they would want nukes (just look at what we have done since 1990...) and looking at our own foreign policy is key here.
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Outlander Systems
04-30-17, 12:37
>Tinpot dictatortot of Best Korea literally wants to nuke CONUS
>constantly threatens neighbors with total anire-raytion
>communist wonderland where dissidents are blown to bits with A2AD weaponry
>libertariatards squeal, "muh NAP. muh non intervention"
>stroke e-penises until nukes start falling on Tokyo
>as ICBM approaches CONUS, libertariatards toke on joints, and stroke real penises.
>self righteous last words of, "at least we didn't aggress"
Please explain how they ARE a threat...
Was Iraq, Libya, Syria a threat? What must we go through to begin to THINK for ourselves???
Just because some globalist piece of crap tells you something does not make it true.
Read Mackinder and Brzezinski and you can balance the neocons, position versus the people that gave them the theories of global domination. You can also read Engdahl who also summarizes it well.
How would I handle it?
I'd not be trying to control that region of the world so I'd not be involved militarily.
I get what we are attempting to do but it's NOT going to work. You/I/we/the West **AIN'T** gonna control Eurasia. Period. GTFO it. We will get nuked trying and we won't have a soul to blame but ourselves.
The term "stay in your lane" applies to Foreign Policy much more so than it could ever apply to individuals.
Figuring out WHY they would want nukes (just look at what we have done since 1990...) and looking at our own foreign policy is key here.
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Okay, we all know there are things we should have done and things that we shouldn't have done. All that being said, we are where we are at.
Is there anything we can do at this point that will change short-rounds view of us? Should we make Dennis Rodman an Ambassador to NK?
I have friends that are non-violent, some who are completely pacifist, some Democrats, some Republicans, some Libertarian, some of the right of those beliefs, some on the left of those beliefs. Thing that I've found is that non of those beliefs work perfectly all the time. The world isn't perfect, and the people who inhabit it are far from being perfect. At some point everything has a degree of compromise.
So how do we back it down and make NK a good neighbor? How are you going to change Kim Jong-un's perception of us?
What of the vacuum we create when we leave an area? Let's use an analogy, say your neighbors are building houses and you tell them 'hey don't buy miter saws, table saws, framing nailers and drivers, I've got all that stuff, you guys furnish the lumber and the food' Then one day in the middle of the job you decide 'nope, no more using my tools.'
Do your neighbors have a right to be upset with you? Will they be upset? Will they be willing to help you on your project? Are your action ethical?
Live ain't easy.
Okay, we all know there are things we should have done and things that we shouldn't have done. All that being said, we are where we are at.
Is there anything we can do at this point that will change short-rounds view of us? Should we make Dennis Rodman an Ambassador to NK?
I have friends that are non-violent, some who are completely pacifist, some Democrats, some Republicans, some Libertarian, some of the right of those beliefs, some on the left of those beliefs. Thing that I've found is that non of those beliefs work perfectly all the time. The world isn't perfect, and the people who inhabit it are far from being perfect. At some point everything has a degree of compromise.
So how do we back it down and make NK a good neighbor? How are you going to change Kim Jong-un's perception of us?
What of the vacuum we create when we leave an area? Let's use an analogy, say your neighbors are building houses and you tell them 'hey don't buy miter saws, table saws, framing nailers and drivers, I've got all that stuff, you guys furnish the lumber and the food' Then one day in the middle of the job you decide 'nope, no more using my tools.'
Do your neighbors have a right to be upset with you? Will they be upset? Will they be willing to help you on your project? Are your action ethical?
Live ain't easy.
I don't think our Foreign Policy goals will EVER make other non-aligned nations "behave".
Every PERSON is a sovereign individual as is each nation. Dominate them or try to dominate them and you get just such behavior.
We (the American people) have to reign in our government - something we have yet to seriously and earnestly attempt to do.
Globalism is a euphemism for New World Order.
No person who believes himself to be a sovereign individual with God-given rights will ever agree to such a grandiose plan and surely Russia, China, Syria, Libya, Yemen, North Korea, Venezuela, Somalia, Sudan, Nigeria, ... (Anywhere we are fighting, essentially) are willing to just lie down and accept it and why should they?
I respect you and yours as individuals as should you everyone else. As long as there exists such mutual respect our differences will not devolve into armies vying for territory and resources that are not our own.
I don't see the US altering its plans. Trump has become Obama/Clinton/Bush/Graham/McCain with respect to Foreign Policy despite the campaign promises.
Prepare for the worst, my friend. But continue to write your Congressmen.
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Eurodriver
04-30-17, 13:46
Trump has become Obama/Clinton/Bush/Graham/McCain with respect to Foreign Policy despite the campaign promises.
Why is that?
>Tinpot dictatortot of Best Korea literally wants to nuke CONUS
>constantly threatens neighbors with total anire-raytion
>communist wonderland where dissidents are blown to bits with A2AD weaponry
>libertariatards squeal, "muh NAP. muh non intervention"
>stroke e-penises until nukes start falling on Tokyo
>as ICBM approaches CONUS, libertariatards toke on joints, and stroke real penises.
>self righteous last words of, "at least we didn't aggress"
I think it's (I KNOW IT, actually) our policy that has created this scenario. He knows that we are unlikely to risk losing several cities. I would not...
Keep in mind we are trying to control Eurasia. YOU may not k ow this or believe this but that has NOTHING to do with reality.
Keep in mind these leaders also have constituents to appease and at some point they may have to act on behalf or their constituents with ghastly results (to the entire planet) because we have allowed our nation to become "the new SOVIETS" (do some research on neoconservatism and you'll find none other than... Trotsky).
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All I know is I read somewhere that the Norks were threatening Israel now.
It's getting kinda sad....
My strategy would be to drop Liberators chambered in .357 Sig with Snickers bars attached.
Then let nature take its course
All I know is I read somewhere that the Norks were threatening Israel now.
It's getting kinda sad....
My strategy would be to drop Liberators chambered in .357 Sig with Snickers bars attached.
Then let nature take its course
Would you give them some .357 Sig ammo too?
Would you give them some .357 Sig ammo too?
It comes with one bullet and a note written in Korean saying "Here's your one chance, Fancy. Don't let me down"
Since they were smooth bore how about chambered in 410 with five buckshot rounds and five slug rounds. Plus the snickers bar and a dowel rod.
I bet there is a warehouse full of them somewhere, although in .45ACP.
Deep state got to Trump.
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All I know is I read somewhere that the Norks were threatening Israel now.
That's the kind of cheap, poorly thought out propaganda that everyone should be thoroughly immune to... [emoji849]
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Why is that?
Have u not been following? What's the difference between administrations??
Same shit different person, bro.
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That's the kind of cheap, poorly thought out propaganda that everyone should be thoroughly immune to... [emoji849]
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You eye roll but the Norks know they are in a box and are selling wolf tickets to save face.
Nobody really wants to admit that putting a fat 30 year old kid in charge of a starving, impoverished, and isolated country was a baaaaaaad idea
You eye roll but the Norks know they are in a box and are selling wolf tickets to save face.
Nobody really wants to admit that putting a fat 30 year old kid in charge of a starving, impoverished, and isolated country was a baaaaaaad idea
I don't buy the report. It seems to be the reason to do anything if Israel is threatened.
Awaken me when WE are threatened by a nation we aren't screwing with and the evidence has to be more than the CIA claiming it (Iraqi WMDs, Syria's WMDs, Libya's WMDs and Russia placing its borders all around our forward bases...)
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Eurodriver
04-30-17, 19:07
Have u not been following? What's the difference between administrations??
Same shit different person, bro.
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I think you misunderstood my question.
Why are they the same? Not how are they the same.
What causes them to all pursue similar policies? They've all got vastly different backgrounds.
I think you misunderstood my question.
Why are they the same? Not how are they the same.
What causes them to all pursue similar policies? They've all got vastly different backgrounds.
The Council on Foreign Relations determine foreign policy.
It was founded by Zbigniew Brzezinski. Both he and Henry Kissinger are proponents of Sir Halford Mackinder.
They are Globalists first and last.
Read their books.
Google "The Grand Chessboard, Brzezinski, .pdf"
Also Google "Heartland Theory, Mackinder"
Mackinder is considered the Father of Modern Geopolitics.
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I don't buy the report. It seems to be the reason to do anything if Israel is threatened.
Awaken me when WE are threatened by a nation we aren't screwing with and the evidence has to be more than the CIA claiming it (Iraqi WMDs, Syria's WMDs, Libya's WMDs and Russia placing its borders all around our forward bases...)
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I'm not worried about the Norks.
Not even if I lived in Seattle or Hawaii. Or even Guam.
Their shit is busted and weak and if they hit anyone it would be Japan or South Korea by accident. And the Japanese would get a hard on 10 times that day and SLBM Pyongyang like it was 1999.
In the Korean War they had a million and a half screaming Chinamen and 200,000 Borscht Eaters helping out. Now everybody is all "Whoa there, Cuz. Dont start shit, wont be shit"
So actually I DO believe that NK is threating everyone they can. But they cant really see it through
And the Japanese would get a hard on 10 times that day and SLBM Pyongyang like it was 1999.
1939 would have been funnier.
I'm not worried about the Norks.
Not even if I lived in Seattle or Hawaii. Or even Guam.
Their shit is busted and weak and if they hit anyone it would be Japan or South Korea by accident. And the Japanese would get a hard on 10 times that day and SLBM Pyongyang like it was 1999.
In the Korean War they had a million and a half screaming Chinamen and 200,000 Borscht Eaters helping out. Now everybody is all "Whoa there, Cuz. Dont start shit, wont be shit"
So actually I DO believe that NK is threating everyone they can. But they cant really see it through
Yeah, okay... [emoji849]
That would be the excuse China would need to send some *real hot* payback to Imperial Japan.
This is chess not checkers.
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(do some research on neoconservatism and you'll find none other than... Trotsky).
Neocons were the anti communist side of the Democrat party and military interventionist. They wanted to go around the World killing Reds. Nice theory other than that...
Also while you are going on about not getting involved in stuff I wonder if you could explain Afghanistan for me? We helped them out a bit to kick the Soviets out of their Country, THEN WE LEFT THEM THE F ALONE FOR ABOUT TWENTY YEARS. How did that work out for us?
The idea we can get involved and fix everything in the World is often wrong, but so is the idea we can disengage and everything will just work out.
LOL! Yeah...
I asked you to RESEARCH them. Look up "Trotsky, Neoconservatism, HISTORY".
I'm going to bed. No wonder the nation is as it is...
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The same China that manufactures the same watches, Nintendos, and TVs the Japanese sell?
The same China that sells the US generic medicine, clothes, and dog food?
27 years ago....yeah, sure.
Now? No.
When China and Russia were lining up for rations then WWIII didnt seem so drastic.
Now? Green, green, green overrules any country's colors.
The ChiComs are posted up on the Nork Border to rebuke the Norks. Not play MASH. The DMZ has a bunch of Joes and now an attack group. I discount the ROKs because they all have that Marvin the ARVN vibe. Either too busy spreading the Syph, playing Starcraft, or listening to K-Pop.
Do I think there will be some epic showdown?
No. An implosion if anything. The Nork scientists will continue to sabotage their own work, they'll keep killing their own people who might have any engineering or military competence, and eventually enough people will say to hell with it.
They are in a box, know they are in a box, and know they aren't intimidating anyone. We are a loooooong way from Kruschev and Mao. Kim Jong Il at least knew how to play the UN. This kid finally pissed off the Red Chinese.
That should unlock like an achievement or something, that is so spectacular.
I discount the ROKs because they all have that Marvin the ARVN vibe. Either too busy spreading the Syph, playing Starcraft, or listening to K-Pop.
Funny you mention Marvin the ARVN. Had a friend who saw the ROK Marines in action while he was in VN. That certainly wasn't his opinion.
Here's some others:
South Korean: Mean. Just mean. Mostly to each other. Not happy soldiers. WAY to serious about killing. WAY to willing to start killing. Set them lose and they will probably invade China after blasting through North (Best) Korea.
American Soldier Here. While in Afghanistan I got to interact with a ton of other armies that were in the ISAF Coalition. From best to worst.
I worked closely with the South Koreans through their hospital and I can say hands down they were the best force I interacted with. Very courteous, professional, and disciplined. Most of them spoke some English and they were all around great people.
ROK's. Holy Crap. I once saw a ROK Sergeant beat the living daylights out of a new enlistee. I have no idea what it was for. He just walked up to him and started hitting the other soldier while he was in formation.
Funny you say that, when I was stationed in South Korea, i saw a smaj beating the absolute **** out of a few ROK guys... we were flying into a helipad next to him and he was lighting...them..up. he just turned and waved and smiled.
Saw a few ROK soldiers in the subway in a little scuffle with each other.. aka beating the absolute **** out of each other..
Active Duty U.S. Army Captain here: Korea: Very well equipped and more than capable of taking care of their own business. Much less risk averse than the US Army (I once had a Korean Tank fire a SABOT round which has discarding fins that pose a safety risk to anybody in front of the tank while directly behind my tank.) Very "in the box" and "this is how we've always done it" oriented, which makes them very unperceptive to creative training or operational solutions. Felt bad for their conscripts. Terribly mistreated. Weak NCO Corps but exceptionally strong Officer corps.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/58a14a/military_members_from_around_the_world_what_are/
I dunno about reddit but most guys I know who did DMZ time didnt think much of them. This is as of 2011 so maybe they got born again hard. I wasnt there and will defer to those who were but when a dude who has never bullshitted me ever says he told his ROK liason that if shit topped off and he was going in the other way that he was dropping him first; I kinda side with him. They might haze their own but the consensus seemed to be that it was an American problem and not a Korean one, the DMZ.
But then again, the ROKs were notoriously vicious in Vietnam. I dont doubt their prowess as much as their commitment
This is what happens when you conscript every able bodied male.
Have u not been following? What's the difference between administrations??
Same shit different person, bro.
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well last one was drawing lines then moving them when the other side crossed them and empowering the enemy
well last one was drawing lines then moving them when the other side crossed them and empowering the enemy
There's a reason this nation is failing. Miserably...
Here's your "difference":
Mackinderite neoliberal/neocon confrontation with Russia and China.
Same with Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya and Yemen.
Do try to keep up. You live here, too!
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Moose-Knuckle
05-01-17, 04:56
We destroyed 1/2 their major cities last time so they are HYPER-VIGILANT. I get it.
Ask how many nations we've invaded since 1990.
How many had nuclear weapons?
It's a deterrent.
If an island just "popped up" and I became the leader... guess what? I'd want a nuclear arsenal: you don't have to respect me but you would not dare disrespect me.
"Don't tread on me" and stuff.
Lot of truth in there.
The nations that willingly disarmed their nuke programs were Libya and Ukraine, look at where they are today.
Libya is a failed state and Ukraine is occupied.
Not stating right, wrong, or indifferent . . . just stating the facts.
Everyone should bother to study Mackinder...
Outlander Systems
05-01-17, 06:49
Too many fortune 500 interests at stake for that kind of shenanigans.
China will play ball. Their economy is constantly on the edge of a knife.
Yeah, okay... [emoji849]
That would be the excuse China would need to send some *real hot* payback to Imperial Japan.
This is chess not checkers.
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Funny you mention Marvin the ARVN. Had a friend who saw the ROK Marines in action while he was in VN. That certainly wasn't his opinion.
Here's some others:
South Korean: Mean. Just mean. Mostly to each other. Not happy soldiers. WAY to serious about killing. WAY to willing to start killing. Set them lose and they will probably invade China after blasting through North (Best) Korea.
American Soldier Here. While in Afghanistan I got to interact with a ton of other armies that were in the ISAF Coalition. From best to worst.
I worked closely with the South Koreans through their hospital and I can say hands down they were the best force I interacted with. Very courteous, professional, and disciplined. Most of them spoke some English and they were all around great people.
ROK's. Holy Crap. I once saw a ROK Sergeant beat the living daylights out of a new enlistee. I have no idea what it was for. He just walked up to him and started hitting the other soldier while he was in formation.
Funny you say that, when I was stationed in South Korea, i saw a smaj beating the absolute **** out of a few ROK guys... we were flying into a helipad next to him and he was lighting...them..up. he just turned and waved and smiled.
Saw a few ROK soldiers in the subway in a little scuffle with each other.. aka beating the absolute **** out of each other..
Active Duty U.S. Army Captain here: Korea: Very well equipped and more than capable of taking care of their own business. Much less risk averse than the US Army (I once had a Korean Tank fire a SABOT round which has discarding fins that pose a safety risk to anybody in front of the tank while directly behind my tank.) Very "in the box" and "this is how we've always done it" oriented, which makes them very unperceptive to creative training or operational solutions. Felt bad for their conscripts. Terribly mistreated. Weak NCO Corps but exceptionally strong Officer corps.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/58a14a/military_members_from_around_the_world_what_are/
On a float we trained with some ROK Marines. They were crazy, and they were fanatical....all they wanted was have an opportunity to kill North Koreans. VERY disciplined, excellent marksmen, very skilled in the field.
LOL! Yeah...
I'm going to bed. No wonder the nation is as it is...
Thanks for answering my questions and the stimulating conversation.
I think dealing with the crazy Kim now is better than waiting for him to have nukes on an ICBM. Nothing good comes out of crazy regimes getting nukes, I mean the entirety of their foreign policy has been making threats until they get what they want.
In the U.K. Express today, the article posits that the missile that blew up was intentionally detonated as it was headed for Russia. As a result, Russia has went on high alert.
This is going to get out of control.
Thanks for answering my questions and the stimulating conversation.
I think dealing with the crazy Kim now is better than waiting for him to have nukes on an ICBM. Nothing good comes out of crazy regimes getting nukes, I mean the entirety of their foreign policy has been making threats until they get what they want.
We could have a very stimulating conversation if you could *research* what exactly the history of neoliberalism/neoconservatism is. You wish to skim the surface on some items yet require others to dig deep.
It ain't that important to me if it ain't that important to you.
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In the U.K. Express today, the article posits that the missile that blew up was intentionally detonated as it was headed for Russia. As a result, Russia has went on high alert.
This is going to get out of control.
Check the Russian press to see if they corroborate that. I've seen nothing (yet) from the Russians confirming that story.
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Well at least the Russian's don't have a publicly admitted doomsday device in operation... So there is a chance the rumors they did are wrong or they turned it off at some point after the cold war.
so you are comparing 8 years of obama to 100 days of trump to say they are the same ?
the reason the country is failing is not one thing but if we pin it on ONE thing maybe the ideology of the left and its parts which are not all the same but the same end goal ?
IMHO and others it is not the conservatives that are destroying it !
what is trump ? I do not think any of us know yet
There's a reason this nation is failing. Miserably...
Here's your "difference":
Mackinderite neoliberal/neocon confrontation with Russia and China.
Same with Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya and Yemen.
Do try to keep up. You live here, too!
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LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-01-17, 17:51
You guys remember when this thread was about the Korean Peninsula and issues surrounding it? Pepperidge Farm remembers...
Outlander Systems
05-01-17, 18:25
Now it's turned into,
>muh Globalist agenda
>muh non aggression principle
>leave Best Korea alone
Back OT:
China's looking for a few good terps...
http://m.koreatimes.co.kr/phone/news/view.jsp?req_newsidx=228584
You guys remember when this thread was about the Korean Peninsula and issues surrounding it? Pepperidge Farm remembers...
China should go to LA and hire rooftop Koreans. That'll sort Porky Pig out.
He looks like Margaret Cho if she were a lady boy.
(Not into Asians but I would crush Margaret Cho because......reasons I dont got to explain)
SeriousStudent
05-01-17, 18:44
Let us not have a lot of bickering in this thread, and let's keep it about North Korea.
I do not need to read a bunch of turd flinging about Chimpy McBushHitler and the Templars are doing this to build a pipeline to carry human souls to their secret lair.
If you have something about the Korea, post it. Otherwise, feel free to go ring up Art Bell and Space Ghost Coast to Coast. Only warning.
SeriousStudent
05-01-17, 18:47
You guys remember when this thread was about the Korean Peninsula and issues surrounding it? Pepperidge Farm remembers...
Me too. And it's going back to that.
Posted a couple articles on first post for today.
Didn't feel like mentioning that DPRK still says it will do what it wants re nuclear testing, since it says that every other day.
Also, Trump said he'd be "honored" to talk with KJU. wtf. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/05/01/trump-says-hed-be-honored-to-meet-with-north-korean-dictator/
In the U.K. Express today, the article posits that the missile that blew up was intentionally detonated as it was headed for Russia. As a result, Russia has went on high alert.
This is going to get out of control.
Do you have a source?
Well at least the Russian's don't have a publicly admitted doomsday device in operation... So there is a chance the rumors they did are wrong or they turned it off at some point after the cold war.
So says the deep, thorough researcher...
I'll rely on my own searching, thank you kindly.
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SeriousStudent
05-01-17, 19:14
Guess what? When I say knock off the bullshit, I mean it.
Any attack on North Korea WILL entail a massive bombardment of Seoul, for nothing other than spite. The Norks probably wouldn't try to invade the South, but they'd make Seoul a killing ground. Not saying we shouldn't do what we have to do if absolutely necessary, but if this can be at all settled peacefully (without food deals or ANYTHING else appeasement-wise) then that is the route to go. See if China is going to step up to the plate on fat-boy.
Actually if you want some insight into how bad off North Korea is.....check out NK News.
Thus far they are the only people reporting on the Norks. I wont link to it as I feel ambiguous about some of their practices. They are a watchdog on NK but....either it is yellow journalism or it really is that bad (or both)
FWIW they did break it that defector Joe Dresnok finally died last year, but his sons (who are blond and blue eyed) are active Nork MI, bilingual, and make a lot of propaganda films.
Outlander Systems
05-01-17, 19:26
Therein lies the Prisoners' Dilemma of the whole thing.
Act now. Seoul gets ARTY'd.
Send nastygrams, ride the wave. Seoul gets Hiroshima'd.
If only we had military assets that were experts at UW, that could foment an internal revolution, there might be a third option...
Any attack on North Korea WILL entail a massive bombardment of Seoul, for nothing other than spite. The Norks probably wouldn't try to invade the South, but they'd make Seoul a killing ground. Not saying we shouldn't do what we have to do if absolutely necessary, but if this can be at all settled peacefully (without food deals or ANYTHING else) then that is the route to go. See if China is going to step up to the plate on fat-boy.
Therein lies the Prisoners' Dilemma of the whole thing.
Act now. Seoul gets ARTY'd.
Send nastygrams, ride the wave. Seoul gets Hiroshima'd.
If only we had military assets that were experts at UW, that could foment an internal revolution, there might be a third option...
My idea of Liberators with Snickers bars wasn't a joke.
According to some alleged defector reports; the Nork army randomly executes people in "farm" country for no reason just to show they can.
These people are ruled by fear and generational punishment. They may act super loyal on State approved film release but the further and further we get from the 50s; the more evident it is that they are hungry people afraid to fart off key because anything they do is wrong, even nothing.
Outlander Systems
05-01-17, 19:44
I'm no strategist, but I'd have my IO dudes burning the midnight oil with defector consultants prepping to chum dafuq outta that battlespace. C130s busting at the seams with chow, guns, and .mp3 players loaded with K-Pop.
Get ready to unleash hell via EW.
Gas up the TR-3Bs at Nellis, and get the pointiest tip of the spear ready to board, and go all in for some KJU face shooting/snake-head chopping/and/or HVT snatchin'.
ETA: Dear, IO dudes,
Contact Matthias Nießner at Stanford University.
Insert Kim Jong Un here:
https://youtu.be/ohmajJTcpNk
Averageman
05-01-17, 19:55
Thank that hard man for us, will you?
I just finished the book 'Devotion' last week. It was a good reminder of how rough the Korean vets had it. Was your step-dad 8th Army?
Navy Corpsman, I would guess 1st Marine Division.
He was a heck of a guy, walked out of College and down to his nearest Recruiting Station, he was Pre Med and had the world by the Ass. Walked away and came back 5 years later and finished.
He wanted to be a Surgeon but ended up a GP. Something about standing up for hours at a stretch.
YUP for sure !!!
Too many fortune 500 interests at stake for that kind of shenanigans.
China will play ball. Their economy is constantly on the edge of a knife.
FlyingHunter
05-01-17, 20:10
I guess I'll be the last to put on my sunglasses if this NOK issue ever ends with a big ball of bright light, but I can't fathom how this will ever go kinetic.
Gentlemen, this is a good thread, don't get it locked.
I heard an interview with a South Korean author on NPR. I found the transcript. Some excerpts:
NEARY: So I know that you spent the last month in South Korea. Here in the United States, there was this sense - recently, in the last week or so - of this - of an impending war. Was that the mood that you experienced in South Korea?
KIM: No. I mean, I found it really surprising because it just wasn't much of a news over there. It seemed, you know, knowing both worlds, that we were talking a complete different language between South Korea and the United States.
NEARY: How do you explain that? Is it just that South Koreans are just used to this state of affairs kind of?
KIM: A couple of reason. Yes, they are absolutely used to it and sick of it and jaded. Anyone who watches North Korea for a while, there is just this constant state of panic for war that happens. Another reason is also the timing. You know, right now, the president, Park Geun-hye, was ousted from office. And the president's seat is vacant, which means there's sort of an emergency election coming up. So the whole country is fascinated by the trial of the former president and the upcoming election. And compared to all that, North Korea is kind of an old news - at this point, over 70 years old.
NEARY: So we've been talking about war. What about peace? Do the South Koreans even think about the possibility of detente anymore, the possibility of the border reopening?
KIM: I mean, I think the issue of one Korea reunification is one of those politically manipulated one. You know, the left parties used it. The right has used it, certainly, in South Korea. So it's almost like this sort of symbol whenever they need to use sort of national security in order to unite people or get their agenda across. So it's almost become a tired one, where everyone - if you were to talk to them and you interview South Koreans, they'll all say, reunification is necessary. Do they want it? They would pause. Do they want to pay for 25 million North Koreans? Do they want refugees? They don't really want that.
Also, there's 30,000 North Korean defectors who have defected to South Korea. And, you know, they basically - they're almost treated as sort of second-class citizen. So if they can't even handle 30,000 defectors, how are they going to handle 25 million people, embracing them into their society? You know, it's a rather unrealistic one at this point.
http://www.npr.org/2017/04/23/525310222/how-south-koreans-live-next-to-their-totalitarian-neighbor
Not much of substance, but I thought it was interesting.
Navy Corpsman, I would guess 1st Marine Division.
He was a heck of a guy, walked out of College and down to his nearest Recruiting Station, he was Pre Med and had the world by the Ass. Walked away and came back 5 years later and finished.
He wanted to be a Surgeon but ended up a GP. Something about standing up for hours at a stretch.
Sounds like the world was made better by his presence.
Averageman
05-01-17, 20:44
Sounds like the world was made better by his presence.
He was a great guy. Before he went to college he went on a Mormon mission to Australia, so he came home went to College and Korea breaks out.
He told a funny story about getting liberty and going to Mexico with his Buddies. They wanted to go to a Cat House and he said he stood around and was holding wallets and waiting. Well after a while they started sending more girls over to talk to him, now bear in mind he was a religious guy, well when that didn't work, someone sent some "Boys" over to see if he might be interested....
He explained that was it, he just started kicking ass, every bodies ass and they barely made it back across the border before ending up in jail.
It was funnier hearing (him) a Mormon Bishop tell it.
The Korean vets were hard Mofos. They make movies and video games about WWII and Vietnam but Korea is forgotten save for MASH(blech).
I read this book in college IIRC it was Chosin(?) It was kinda like BHD in terms of AARs and interviews. I would love to find and own that book.
One excerpt that stood out was this Army (?) division got cut off so they dug in and resorted to pissing on their guns to keep them from freezing, everybody got frostbite, they literally stacked bodies for sand bags and one Sergeant dived on a grenade, survived, and kept fighting minus half his face and a hand. He packed ice with the dressing hoping it would freeze his wound to stop bleeding and they fought all night into daybreak.
Its surprising how we all forget and even moreso that they never wore it on their sleeve. Nobody talked about it.
So at its peak, Korea was no joke.
He was a great guy. Before he went to college he went on a Mormon mission to Australia, so he came home went to College and Korea breaks out.
He told a funny story about getting liberty and going to Mexico with his Buddies. They wanted to go to a Cat House and he said he stood around and was holding wallets and waiting. Well after a while they started sending more girls over to talk to him, now bear in mind he was a religious guy, well when that didn't work, someone sent some "Boys" over to see if he might be interested....
He explained that was it, he just started kicking ass, every bodies ass and they barely made it back across the border before ending up in jail.
It was funnier hearing (him) a Mormon Bishop tell it.
He and I had something in common. I was the wallet holder for our group when I was at Courthouse Bay in Camp Lejuene. I was not religious at the time but I damned sure wasn't going to take anything I bought from some guy on a street corner and my girlfriend came from home a couple times to spend weekends so I didn't want to screw that up with some disease. My only fall from grace was getting a tattoo from some carny looking guy in a trailer in his backyard. It didn't turn out bad, so I lucked out there.
SeriousStudent
05-01-17, 21:14
......
I read this book in college IIRC it was Chosin(?) It was kinda like BHD in terms of AARs and interviews. I would love to find and own that book.
.......
I probably have it in my library here at the house. I'll send some pics. If it's the one you remember, you are welcome to borrow it.
I have quite a few books on the Korean war. One of my uncles fought in an Airborne unit over there, and another was a Combat Engineer.
I probably have it in my library here at the house. I'll send some pics. If it's the one you remember, you are welcome to borrow it.
I have quite a few books on the Korean war. One of my uncles fought in an Airborne unit over there, and another was a Combat Engineer.
I would take you up on it if so. That book was pretty heavy. I wish I had bought it at waldenbooks last time I saw it. It was black with read borders like the BHD book
I would take you up on it if so. That book was pretty heavy. I wish I had bought it at waldenbooks last time I saw it. It was black with read borders like the BHD book
Waldenbooks...
Now that's a name I've not heard in a long time. A long time.
Moose-Knuckle
05-02-17, 04:05
Any attack on North Korea WILL entail a massive bombardment of Seoul, for nothing other than spite. The Norks probably wouldn't try to invade the South, but they'd make Seoul a killing ground. Not saying we shouldn't do what we have to do if absolutely necessary, but if this can be at all settled peacefully (without food deals or ANYTHING else appeasement-wise) then that is the route to go. See if China is going to step up to the plate on fat-boy.
Yup, from an earlier post:
Another thing I see a lot is people here in the West underestimate them. Seoul has just under 26 million people living there not to mention something like 30k US personnel. It is the North's primary target if anything goes down and it is only 35 miles from the DMZ.
Major Ed Dames who has a storied 30+ year career in the IC also brought up a point in a recent interview that most over look. He stated that North Korea is nothing like Iraq or Afghanistan. He said they are hard line fanatics on a whole other level, we haven't fought anything like that since Imperial Japan where every last man, woman, and child would have fought to the death for their emperor.
That interview of Major Dames, he went into how his intelligence firm that he founded after retiring from DoD was hired by South Korea to locate the Norths tunnels. Some have been located but not all of them, he said that a battalion could easily infiltrate from the North through these tunnels.
I could see Seoul being turned into a modern day Stalingrad if the fuse is lit.
THAAD is now fully armed and operational.
https://nytimes.com/2017/05/02/world/asia/thaad-north-korea-missile-defense-us.html
Outlander Systems
05-02-17, 08:21
Unnngggggh!
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--8PcGvaGp--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/19f4jjkecmnbhgif.gif
THAAD is now fully armed and operational.
https://nytimes.com/2017/05/02/world/asia/thaad-north-korea-missile-defense-us.html
Needs more MOAB.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
I could see Seoul being turned into a modern day Stalingrad if the fuse is lit.
I think Seoul is too accessible and technology too great to envision a Stalingrad-type of siege, but could definitely see a Stalingrad-type of building-to-building, house-to-house warfare.
I think that although NK has some hardened, fanatical front-line troops, they have far more poor, hungry conscripts that would just as easily take off their uniform for a sandwich.
News source for missile heading towards Russia and detonated rather than a failed launch:
http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/failed-north-korean-missile-was-headed-for-russia-seoul-economy-daily-reports-but-was-detonated/news-story/ecd7c3406c537fb0d21f3a124938370d
Yup, from an earlier post:
That interview of Major Dames, he went into how his intelligence firm that he founded after retiring from DoD was hired by South Korea to locate the Norths tunnels. Some have been located but not all of them, he said that a battalion could easily infiltrate from the North through these tunnels.
I could see Seoul being turned into a modern day Stalingrad if the fuse is lit.
That shouldn't hold us back if we absolutely have to do it. However, those words in italics are perhaps the most important.
Sometimes you gotta do what ya gotta do, and I'm all for it if it comes to that. Right now I just ain't seeing the need for it.
Having said that, I will also say if they attempt an honest attack on our ships or pop a missile at Hawaii or the west coast, even of we shoot it down and the attack is unsuccessful it would warrant a full retaliatory response by the U.S.
I've used the analogy of a kid in the schoolyard who takes a swing at you but you block it. Does it end there or do you kick the ever-lovin' shit out of him for trying?
Was thinking of putting info on which countries support action and which don't... anyone interesting in helping compile sources?
So far, off the top of my head:
Japan and Aus are backing US action
ROK is split
Vatican, Philippines, and Russia are against US action
China is unknown
Averageman
05-02-17, 13:06
Was thinking of putting info on which countries support action and which don't... anyone interesting in helping compile sources?
So far, off the top of my head:
Japan and Aus are backing US action
ROK is split
Vatican, Philippines, and Russia are against US action
China is unknown
I'm not sure Russia and China are against all US action, short of armed aggression it would be in everyone's best interests to get this under control.
If the rocket leaves NORK airspace and has a warhead, just where will it land? With the current level of issues with targeting their ballistic missiles, your guess would be as good as mine.
I can honestly see China and Russia being on the receiving end of one of these things, not because they were the target, but because they are that bad at making these things work and fly where they want them to.
It's not just their enemies that need to be concerned, it is everyone near or in the region.
Outlander Systems
05-02-17, 14:13
China demands halt to US missile shield in S.Korea:
http://www.france24.com/en/20170502-china-demands-halt-us-missile-shield-skorea
'A TOTAL WAR' North Korea threatens the ‘final doom of the US’ after Trump sends supersonic nuclear bombers over the Korean peninsula:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3458993/kim-jong-un-nuclear-war-trump-sends-bombers-korean-peninsula/
Satellite images ‘show North Korea is poised to test submarine missiles capable of hitting the US’ – hours after Kim Jong-un warned of nuke test ‘at any minute’:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3461665/satellite-images-north-korea-barge-long-range-missiles-us/
The Sun is a tabloid, not sure how much I trust their info.
But looks like their source is good.
The Sun is a tabloid, not sure how much I trust their info.
I've seen those same headlines in other publications. Three things:
1. All British "news" is tabloid now days to include the BBC
2. The Sun is more credible on the whole than CNN and its fake news.
3. CNN and MSNBC is as much "journalism" for the left as RT is "journalism" for Russia.
I like this chart:
https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-be436669e22e7772a97bb421f82e5a64
We should get all news from The Wallstreet Journal, apparently.
Also apnews.com is as impartial as I've ever seen.
I like this chart:
We should get all news from The Wallstreet Journal, apparently.
Also apnews.com is as impartial as I've ever seen.
The heck with the Wall Street Journal. Small Wars Journal consistently features stories that when you click the 'read more' button it links to a WSJ article that you cant see unless y6ou subscribe. Or maybe I should say 'The heck with Small Wars Journal.'
WSJ is a good paper, I took it for a long time until I decided the expense wasn't worth the usefulness to me.
Rush Limbaugh needs one more yellow block to fit with my perception of myself.
Outlander Systems
05-02-17, 15:49
AP and Reuters are the two publications that I don't immediately go on defense with...
I like this chart:[/img]
We should get all news from The Wallstreet Journal, apparently.
Also apnews.com is as impartial as I've ever seen.
Averageman
05-02-17, 16:27
There are some articles out there saying that since that last rocket was launched Russia has had a bit of a change of heart. They have had some troop movements since that last rocket was aimed at 49 degree's which would have put it over Russian airspace and territory.
Fox is saying Putin and Trump spoke over the phone irt both Syria and NORK today.
I don't have a lot of confidence that the North Koreans have the best guidance technology, aiming one toward Russia would seem on the surface to not be in their best interests.
I would guess although China might not like the idea of South Korea having anti-missile technology, they want the Russians getting their noses bent out of shape even less. North Korea might be the worst thing possible for China at this point. How do you negotiate with someone when your crazy kid brother keeps aiming fireworks at their houses?
Averageman
05-02-17, 16:36
The box grows smaller
I want Tillerson's frequent flyer miles. That Dude must be working 40 hour days.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-02-17, 18:47
I want Tillerson's frequent flyer miles. That Dude must be working 40 hour days.
And I never see him mugging for the camera and bloviating like Kerry.
I like this chart:
https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-be436669e22e7772a97bb421f82e5a64
We should get all news from The Wallstreet Journal, apparently.
Also apnews.com is as impartial as I've ever seen.
Half the crap listed on the chart is entertainment and not even news... so how much can you really put into the chart?
Speaking of Rush... he was my neighbor back in the day. He's the first to tell you that it is all schtick. He does what he does on purpose. I'll tell you that his first wife, Michelle, was hot as hell too.
Half the crap listed on the chart is entertainment and not even news... so how much can you really put into the chart?
And that is part of the problem, opinion driven entertainment qualifying as news. Imagine if Phil Donahue was treated as a valid news source back in the 70s how far down the bizarre rabbit hole we'd be. Hell Johnny Carson talked about current events but that didn't make him or his show a "news source."
And it's only going to get worse as most people are too lazy to click away from facebook to even see if the news they are reading goes to an actual link of an validity. Everyone is now getting news, editorialized by some dipshit who's sole qualification is creating a FB account and posting things they care about.
Moose-Knuckle
05-03-17, 04:23
Does it end there or do you kick the ever-lovin' shit out of him for trying?
I drew upon the analogy of North Koreans to the imperial Japanese as that we would have to nuke them for the same reason we nuked Japan. Save us from a long protracted war of house to house and hand to hand combat to the death.
If they attack us in any way there is only one response, wipe them from the histories.
I remember a few friends trying to correct me with facts from the daily show :) hahahahahahah OK
When I was in college I had a class in which we had to take the WSJ and the Christian Science Monitor. Both of those had the best and most objective news articles of any mainstream publication at the time (1987).
Say what you want about the slant with Drudge Report, the links on the bottom half of the page are very good; and Real Clear Politics is also a very good site.
On topic, apparently Trump and Putin had a constructive phone convo vis-a-vis NK, and are planning a face-to-face soon. Indeed, the box grows smaller.
3 May - China issues final warning to DPRK regarding nuclear weapons
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2017/05/103_228717.html
3 May - DPRK says nuclear program will continue regardless of China's warning
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/04/world/asia/north-korea-nuclear-weapons-china.html
Averageman
05-04-17, 08:13
[QUOTE=SteyrAUG;2488272]And that is part of the problem, opinion driven entertainment qualifying as news. Imagine if Phil Donahue was treated as a valid news source back in the 70s how far down the bizarre rabbit hole we'd be. Hell Johnny Carson talked about current events but that didn't make him or his show a "news source."QUOTE]
This a thousand times THIS !
When News Reporters gained Celebrity status we began to get opinion rather than reporting, it's been a down hill slide ever since. Now everyday Americans are believing they are getting News from MSM outlets when in actual fact they are getting opinion driven stories written and molded to sell air time and advertising.
It doesn't matter which MSM outlet you go to now, it has all been biased by political parties and agenda driven programs to build an opinion level favoring "their" side.
Telling your Mom and your Kids that they are being duped isn't easy, you're going to have to slowly remove the wool that's been pulled over their eyes. It's going to likely be painful for many of them to hear both Rachel Maddow and Rush Limbaugh have been lying to them for years.
This stuff in North Korea has gotten to the point where China is telling their people to GTFO of North Korea and the Russians are moving troops to seal their territories from North Korean Refugee's crossing over like starving locusts were facing some more serious issues than we might think.
This got out of hand when Carter went over to negotiate with the North and ever since we've just been kicking the can down the road. Hoping China will step in to bring this in line in order to stabilize the region is our best hope, however that might be being overly optimistic.
4 May - US House almost unanimously approves more sanctions on DPRK
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-usa-congress-sanctions-idUSKBN1802HB
4 May - USSOCOM commander says they're ready for counter-nuclear action
http://tribunist.com/news/us-special-ops-ready-to-act-against-north-koreas-weapons-sites-according-to-commander/
4 May - USSOCOM commander says they're ready for counter-nuclear action
http://tribunist.com/news/us-special-ops-ready-to-act-against-north-koreas-weapons-sites-according-to-commander/
Our HSLD, tip-of-the-spear guys are good (damned good), but putting "boots" on Nork soil without an all-out invasion is really really risky. If they were captured, without an invasion coming to *maybe* save them, they would be toast.....slow toast. I just don't think it's wise to put limited "boots" in there unless there are a 100K more!
If it is to be "limited", which NoKo won't see it as of course and will rain hell on Seoul, then we ought to rely on our high-tech weaponry.
So here's the problem:
Any military action taken against the DPRK will likely cause an immediate launch of nuclear weapons on SRBMs or MRBMs. So they have to be taken out either simultaneously with the movement of conventional forces or extremely quickly after.
China doesn't want a kinetic strike on nuclear facilities (production, storage, launch, etc) due to the proximity of China to the DPRK and the chance of radioactive or otherwise contaminated material drifting onto their people. And pissing off China with something like this isn't a great idea.
So without air strikes on those nuclear facilities, I'd imagine it would fall to SOF to pre-position in-country and synchronize their assaults with the start of a conventional air war.
Isn't it pretty questionable that they have any small enough to fit in a warhead?
Isn't it pretty questionable that they have any small enough to fit in a warhead?
That is what we believed about this time last year and we went to Defcon 3 as a result. We no longer believe they have that capability and are currently at 4 for various reasons, with North Korean sub launched missiles being one of the larger concerns.
So here's the problem:
Any military action taken against the DPRK will likely cause an immediate launch of nuclear weapons on SRBMs or MRBMs. So they have to be taken out either simultaneously with the movement of conventional forces or extremely quickly after.
China doesn't want a kinetic strike on nuclear facilities (production, storage, launch, etc) due to the proximity of China to the DPRK and the chance of radioactive or otherwise contaminated material drifting onto their people. And pissing off China with something like this isn't a great idea.
So without air strikes on those nuclear facilities, I'd imagine it would fall to SOF to pre-position in-country and synchronize their assaults with the start of a conventional air war.
It would have to be a different kind of pre-position than some SOF units would be accustomed to, i.e. it would have to be hiding out in the sticks out of sight COMPLETELY. NK is a strictly controlled hermit kingdom. They are obviously all Asian. Any gringo SOF guys would stand out like a sore thumb if they were using a safe-house or such. There could be no "hiding in plain sight". They'd have to be hunkered down on some hilltop under bushes.
Im not SOF and I have no idea how often they set up a wilderness OP vs a safe house in a city. But unlike me, they must have been thinking about and training for this for a while.
DPRK claims CIA and IS (ROK's version of the CIA, not the Islamic State) tried to kill KJU.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39815561
This is getting a lot of traction in the news today. But honestly... Why would we trust anything the DPRK says? And even if it is true, is anyone honestly surprised?
I know the commander of USSOCOM says they are ready, but I wonder if the men who actually have to go are ready? Still, it is a classic SF mission.....
Quick meta question, should I keep updating the first post with news or just post it as a reply in the thread? Currently I do both.
Outlander Systems
05-05-17, 10:50
Both. You're doing a solid job with this thread, brosef.
Quick meta question, should I keep updating the first post with news or just post it as a reply in the thread? Currently I do both.
I know the commander of USSOCOM says they are ready, but I wonder if the men who actually have to go are ready? Still, it is a classic SF mission.....
I don't think it's a matter of them being "ready" per se, as they are the most highly trained guys in the world. I harken back to memories of the SOF teams during Desert Storm who were compromised in the middle of bad-guy country.....the SAS guys (Andy McNab and his team), and at least two Green Beret teams, all of which were ironically out Scud-hunting. Look what happened to the SAS dudes and the SF ones got out by the hair on their asses. These missions weren't the "hiding in plain sight" types with a safe-house and all, they were in hides or humping out in the middle of nowhere.
DPRK claims CIA and IS (ROK's version of the CIA, not the Islamic State) tried to kill KJU.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39815561
I read that this morning and my first thought was "if we wanted him dead, he would be dead"... There would be no "plot" or anything of the like... just dead.
I read that this morning and my first thought was "if we wanted him dead, he would be dead"... There would be no "plot" or anything of the like... just dead.
The reddit thread for that story is hilarious. Here are some comments that I enjoyed:
> The CIA must be really backed-up with their assassination orders to only now be getting around to this one.
> Well, Castro dying last year freed up a lot of their schedule.
> so you are saying mother nature is running the CIA assassination department
> I wish the CIA luck.
> They are going to need it... how many times did they go after Castro?
> There were over 500 assassination attempts on him. I'm not sure how many were from the cia, but I'm sure it was a healthy amount of those.
> I fully believe that the CIA have a plot to kill every world leader if necessary. Like batman with the justice league. Just in case.
> They practiced all of them on Fidel Castro.
> They were really impressed with the results of the 'Wait 50 years' plan.
> North Korea is one of the harder states to infiltrate actually, even for the CIA. Mainly because of their homogeneous population, and also because the main population is so cut off from the outside world.
> North Korea would know something about assassinating people with biochemical substances.
> Think they've just been watching The Interview?
The reddit thread for that story is hilarious. Here are some comments that I enjoyed:
> The CIA must be really backed-up with their assassination orders to only now be getting around to this one.
> Well, Castro dying last year freed up a lot of their schedule.
> so you are saying mother nature is running the CIA assassination department
> I wish the CIA luck.
> They are going to need it... how many times did they go after Castro?
> There were over 500 assassination attempts on him. I'm not sure how many were from the cia, but I'm sure it was a healthy amount of those.
> I fully believe that the CIA have a plot to kill every world leader if necessary. Like batman with the justice league. Just in case.
> They practiced all of them on Fidel Castro.
> They were really impressed with the results of the 'Wait 50 years' plan.
> North Korea is one of the harder states to infiltrate actually, even for the CIA. Mainly because of their homogeneous population, and also because the main population is so cut off from the outside world.
> North Korea would know something about assassinating people with biochemical substances.
> Think they've just been watching The Interview?
That bolded statement is undoubtedly true. One of the reasons a SOF mission is also difficult.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-05-17, 18:59
That bolded statement is undoubtedly true. One of the reasons a SOF mission is also difficult.
So, the fact that they keep everyone short and skinny is a cheap IFF?
The floors are only rated for 140lbs.
So, the fact that they keep everyone short and skinny is a cheap IFF?
The floors are only rated for 140lbs.
"Oh, Yankee dog, you crack floor! No more boom-boom long time for you!"
"Oh, Yankee dog, you crack floor! No more boom-boom long time for you!"
Oh, that must have been what they meant when they told me 'I no boom boom you, you too big, you break'
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/another-american-citizen-is-detained-in-north-korea-taking-total-to-four/2017/05/07/2acb8952-3326-11e7-99b0-dd6e94e786e5_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_nkorea-952am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.9a1358a597c9
DPRK detains 4th US Citizen.
Outlander Systems
05-08-17, 10:40
http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2017/05/08/exclusive-congressional-expert-north-korea-prepping-emp-warfare-aimed-u-s-homefront/
"Dr. Peter Vincent Pry is executive director of the Task Force on National and Homeland Security and is the chief of staff of the Congressional EMP Commission.
Speaking on this reporter’s talk radio program, Pry pointed to two North Korean satellites that are currently orbiting the U.S. at trajectories he says are optimized for a surprised EMP attack. “Aaron Klein Investigative Radio” is broadcast on terrestrial radio on New York’s AM 970 The Answer and NewsTalk 990 AM in Philadelphia and online."
Theres a congressional emp commission??
Outlander Systems
05-08-17, 11:34
Affirmative.
http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/security/has204000.000/has204000_0.HTM
https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Baker-Statement-5-13-EMP.pdf
I hate fiction, but if you ever want a a good scare, read, "One Second After." It's triple-X hardcore doom pr0n.
Averageman
05-08-17, 11:38
Affirmative.
http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/security/has204000.000/has204000_0.HTM
https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Baker-Statement-5-13-EMP.pdf
I hate fiction, but if you ever want a a good scare, read, "One Second After." It's triple-X hardcore doom pr0n.
A heck of a good read.
Read "One Second" a few years ago; scary stuff. I have a standby generator on natural gas, and while it's good for run of the mill outages (3 brief ones this spring) I'd probably be truly screwed along with the rest of the country in an EMP situation.
Good thing top--TOP--men are working night and day on this...
So after reading the article you posted Outlander, a couple things stick out to me:
1) The guy is on the EMP Commission. Something something every problem looks like a nail.
2) Nothing is new info.
3) He was talking about launching a nuclear missile like a satellite to avoid US ABM detection and defenses, not parking a satellite in orbit... speaking of which
4) The satellites aren't parked in orbit over the US (if they were, they'd be 22,000 miles up over the equator, which isn't ideal for a secret weapon anyway), they're both ~300 miles altitude:
https://www.n2yo.com/?s=39026
http://www.n2yo.com/?s=41332
If the article is correct, that 70 miles altitude is ideal for a 10kt warhead emp, those satellites would have to re-enter a large part of the atmosphere before detonating, which would probably require a lot of fuel and shielding that they simply might not even have.
Random side note, KNS 3-2 carries a 470MHz UHF radio payload to transmit patriotic songs. That's pretty hilarious.
Surprise satellite EMP? I don't know, doesn't make much sense to me.
First strike weapons need to take out most or all of an opponent's ability to retaliate. EMP satellite doesn't fit here.
Defensive weapons need to be known by your enemies, you can hit me but I'll hit back. Secret EMP satellites don't fit here either. It's like having a doomsday device and not telling anyone.
Then there is the limited number of weapons they have coupled with the somewhat unknown effect of an EMP.
It is the DPRK. So just flat out crazy is a possibility...
Outlander Systems
05-08-17, 13:14
1) Agreed, though it's still a viable concern.
2) The trajectory of April's launch commentary was enlightening, and explanative.
3) See 2 ;)
4) True, but they do make CONUS passes. KMS 3-2 should make a pass over my location at around 19:30 today.
As far as the efficacy of a HA burst, if you get bored, read up on Starfish Prime. Pretty interesting stuff.
Disclaimer: I am NOT a SATCOM/AMSAT dork, but I have dabbled in it. I don't know if there's a Doppler-shift problem, or what, but I don't know of anyone who's been able to intercept any of the transmissions from KMS 3-2. I have a buddy that is hardcore into working birds, and has yet to come up with anything from the Norksats.
OT: I hate SATCOM, because, outside of external tracking they suck ass for EMCOMM purposes. Comms windows are retarded short, and paths are a PITA to predict without access to tracking software. The old geezers that did this shit back before the internet get my sincere respect.
So after reading the article you posted Outlander, a couple things stick out to me:
1) The guy is on the EMP Commission. Something something every problem looks like a nail.
2) Nothing is new info.
3) He was talking about launching a nuclear missile like a satellite to avoid US ABM detection and defenses, not parking a satellite in orbit... speaking of which
4) The satellites aren't parked in orbit over the US (if they were, they'd be 22,000 miles up over the equator, which isn't ideal for a secret weapon anyway), they're both ~300 miles altitude:
https://www.n2yo.com/?s=39026
http://www.n2yo.com/?s=41332
If the article is correct, that 70 miles altitude is ideal for a 10kt warhead emp, those satellites would have to re-enter a large part of the atmosphere before detonating, which would probably require a lot of fuel and shielding that they simply might not even have.
Random side note, KNS 3-2 carries a 470MHz UHF radio payload to transmit patriotic songs. That's pretty hilarious.
Eurodriver
05-08-17, 13:28
I think the Notth Koreans are just misunderstood and a victim of propaganda by globalists.
The Norks are peaceful folks and just desire to be left alone.
IIRC any type of EMP burst is considered an act of war because of the shit it could possibly cause.
Dist. Expert 26
05-08-17, 19:21
I think the Notth Koreans are just misunderstood and a victim of propaganda by globalists.
The Norks are peaceful folks and just desire to be left alone.
I've seen this argument presented in a serious manner whilst trolling liberal Facebook pages. It's mind blowing.
Outlander Systems
05-08-17, 19:28
Living in the immediate aftermath of an EMP attack is something I file under, "Shit I Wouldn't Even Wish Upon My Enemy."
****. That.
Given the current political climate we'd all be getting eaten by our neighbors about a week from the event.
IIRC any type of EMP burst is considered an act of war because of the shit it could possibly cause.
EMP these days is a whole other game compared to say 20 years ago with banking and records and communications
not to mention food distribution systems and systems in place ! the home garden and hunting fishing would be a needed skill for sure
I have ideas but the reality is who knows how long it would take to get back up ? I hear folks say not to long ? then I think SURE they cant even get my cable internet stable ! and when power goes out at my parents its sometimes a week or more !!
the EMP would be a insane thing to live through and hope it never happens
if we hit NK with a EMP %98 of the population would not be effected to bad since they live in past times anyway
I really cant see it happening and the whole satellite launch scenario would make a good movie or book but I could be wrong launch detections and such I think anything close to a EMP size device would be detected and taken out long before we were in danger
sadly the Russians would take a EMP way better than we would as far as regular life goes compared to most the folks here !
Moose-Knuckle
05-09-17, 04:56
Speaking of NORK satellites, our X-37B just landed back to Earth after a two year clandestine mission.
http://www.space.com/36420-x-37b-space-plane-secret-mission-florida-landing.html
If we're going to go all fisticuffs with a nuclear power, the war will begin and might very well end in space.
We have multiple envelopes that can engage enemy satellites in orbit.
IIRC any type of EMP burst is considered an act of war because of the shit it could possibly cause.
We've covered this previously. Objects on a ballistic trajectory to the US will be treated as a strike and trigger nuclear retaliation. Whether by icbm or satellite.
It would be a suicide move by NORK to attempt an EMP attack on the US.
Since we'd launch a full on nuclear counterstrike before the EMP hit, there is no reason to use EMP.
What most of the books get wrong is that it would take a superpower to blanket the US with enough EMP attacks to create a national event.
Regional, a single device could do it. Would be like Katrina without the physical damage.
There are physics involved that makes it hard to saturate an area (tangent angles to a sphere). Peak EMP altitude reduces coverage area. Increase the altitude to get more coverage area and the EMP yield goes down plus you need exponentially larger devices due to inverse square law..
Outlander Systems
05-09-17, 09:17
In the commission's report, it was noted that two retired Russian Generals informed the commission that Russian, Chinese, and Pakistani scientists were assisting the NORKs...
What most of the books get wrong is that it would take a superpower to blanket the US with enough EMP attacks to create a national event.
In the commission's report, it was noted that two retired Russian Generals informed the commission that Russian, Chinese, and Pakistani scientists were assisting the NORKs...
Enough that the NORK's could simultaneously launch 16-20 devices at optimum altitude and power to blanket the US with EMP?
It would trigger a huge nuclear retaliation by the US, and even China and Russia don't want that. Especially if they are complicit.
Even if it did happen, the nature of EMP is variable. Terrain, natural and manmade shielding, angle/distance to the burst all impact the EMP effect.
Would it be a bad day? Sure. Would it be a "Revolution" type effect where all electrical devices stop working? Absolutely not.
There are many things to worry about. But a nationwide EMP event is not one that I lose a bit of sleep over. Just too hard to achieve.
Dirty bombs, chem attacks, infrastructure attacks, those are far more likely and realistic for a rogue nation like NORK or non-state actors to pull off.
The estimates for NORK sleeper agents in S Korea is literally in the thousands. They catch some every year. Most apparently have infrastructure targets. Between that and the risk of a suitcase nuclear or dirty device is fairly high.
My understanding from talking to people whose job it is to know this type of stuff: We could easily take our NORK militarily. The problem is the collateral damage S Korea would absorb doing so. Just imagine several thousand antiquated, but still effective artillery pieces lobbing shells from NJ into NYC. That alone would be very bad.
Dirty bombs, chem attacks, infrastructure attacks, those are far more likely and realistic for a rogue nation like NORK or non-state actors to pull off.
I'm more worried about a rogue state/actor hiding a nuke on a freighter and parking it in one of our major seaports. That would yield a higher return on investment than this EMP fantasy everybody has.
I'm more worried about a rogue state/actor hiding a nuke on a freighter and parking it in one of our major seaports. That would yield a higher return on investment than this EMP fantasy everybody has.
This is the biggest risk for this type of thing as I understand it.
No icbm's required, does not require collusion from major actors. Can be done by a rogue state or non-state.
LA, Oakland, Eastern seaboard ports. All would be catastrophic targets.
I know they are doing nuclear screening more, but that's only once the ships are unloaded. Hopefully they have something more than has been shared that can detect without having to screen individual containers
I'm more worried about a rogue state/actor hiding a nuke on a freighter and parking it in one of our major seaports. That would yield a higher return on investment than this EMP fantasy everybody has.
Or a mini sub.
Dist. Expert 26
05-09-17, 10:57
It seems to me that if a device were properly shielded it would be almost impossible to detect. Whenever these things are brought up I'm honestly surprised that it hasn't happened yet.
New president just elected. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southkorea-election-idUSKBN18425S
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Averageman
05-09-17, 11:08
So apparently due to the recent elections in South Korea the new President, (Who's family escaped North Korea) feels a bit differently about this issue than the last President or the current POTUS here at home.
It's being reported he wants to ease tensions and pacify both the Chinese and the NORK's and feels the recent installation of missile defense systems in the South by the US was unnecessary and is provoking the North Koreans.
Really?
Ummm really?
Why don't we on that note rethink the whole issue and revisit it when the NORK's raise their flag in Seoul?
Other than a missile that could reach Hawaii if they don't want our help, are we doing what is right for us?
So apparently due to the recent elections in South Korea the new President, (Who's family escaped North Korea) feels a bit differently about this issue than the last President or the current POTUS here at home.
It's being reported he wants to ease tensions and pacify both the Chinese and the NORK's and feels the recent installation of missile defense systems in the South by the US was unnecessary and is provoking the North Koreans.
Really?
Ummm really?
Why don't we on that note rethink the whole issue and revisit it when the NORK's raise their flag in Seoul?
Other than a missile that could reach Hawaii if they don't want our help, are we doing what is right for us?
He was voted in by mostly millennials who probably don't remember the last 60 years of empty "talks" and subsequent sabre rattling
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Outlander Systems
05-09-17, 11:27
One-off sub attacks, or other sneaky Pete / Tom Clancy bullshit scenarios don't have the same strategic significance.
Did anyone bother to read any of the reports? The concern is that Russian assymetric strategies, along with certain applied technologies were "accidentally" provided to the regime.
Averageman
05-09-17, 11:36
He was voted in by mostly millennials who probably don't remember the last 60 years of empty "talks" and subsequent sabre rattling
Will the last GI leaving South Korea please turn the lights off at the Bar? The Juicy Girls wont be able to afford the Electric Bill when we leave...
One-off sub attacks, or other sneaky Pete / Tom Clancy bullshit scenarios don't have the same strategic significance.
Did anyone bother to read any of the reports? The concern is that Russian assymetric strategies, along with certain applied technologies were "accidentally" provided to the regime.
Nuking the port of L.A. would have plenty of strategic significance. Think what it would do to our economy. While an EMP that covered the nation would be catastrophic, it is far harder to pull off.
On EMP: http://38north.org/2017/05/jliu050517/
9 May - Moon Jae-in wins ROK election, favors talks with DPRK
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39855956
9 May - Japan wants Tomahawks and Aegis Ashore
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/10057/japan-may-buy-tomahawks-for-retaliatory-strikes-on-north-korean-missile-sites
Everyone counts out Japan and thinks all they do all day is eat noodles and spank it to dirty anime cartoons.
Newp.
If it goes too far, I dont put it past them to put on Banzai headbands, wave the Imperial flag, and let the SLBMs fly if not paratroopers as well.
They parade with those Howa rifles and flash the Hello Kitty card but they got nukes and dudes willing to set it off.
Everyone counts out Japan and thinks all they do all day is eat noodles and spank it to dirty anime cartoons.
Newp.
If it goes too far, I dont put it past them to put on Banzai headbands, wave the Imperial flag, and let the SLBMs fly if not paratroopers as well.
They parade with those Howa rifles and flash the Hello Kitty card but they got nukes and dudes willing to set it off.
Japan with nukes? Can you cite? That is news to me....(admittedly I do not know everything, that's why I'd like a source).
Japan with nukes? Can you cite? That is news to me....(admittedly I do not know everything, that's why I'd like a source).
Google "Bomb in the Basement"
They have a loooooot of stuff that any other country would get nailed for having as "constructive intent"
Google "Bomb in the Basement"
They have a loooooot of stuff that any other country would get nailed for having as "constructive intent"
Yeah, a lot of countries would get their pee-pee slapped for having materials, but it would take a long time (6 mos-2 years) to spin up and build a weapon. I don't like that line of thinking....so if you have ammonia and bleach, you are capable of having a WMD?
No doubt Japan's conservative politicians are good having plutonium and building-capability and have supported Japan's nuke program for its potential to weaponize.
Outlander Systems
05-09-17, 13:54
Jack Liu is blowing sunshine up your skirt; or he didn't get the memo.
NORAD didn't spirit away back into Cheyenne Mountain, and blow almost a billion dollars in the process, for the shits and grins of it.
On EMP: http://38north.org/2017/05/jliu050517/
Yeah, a lot of countries would get their pee-pee slapped for having materials, but it would take a long time (6 mos-2 years) to spin up and build a weapon. I don't like that line of thinking....so if you have ammonia and bleach, you are capable of having a WMD?
No doubt Japan's conservative politicians are good having plutonium and building-capability and have supported Japan's nuke program for its potential to weaponize.
I'm pretty sure they just tell people it would take 6 months.
They have a civil(ish) attitude with China as long as money is involved but absolutely no love for Korea in general.
Japan is a bit of a wildcard. They kinda dont hide behind us as much as they use us to keep face. They have cultivated this nice guy, easy going hakuna matata image that Naval attacks, strat-nuking, and screeching paratroopers with SAWs and Gustavs would take another 70 years to live down.
It wasnt so much Japan was afraid of other people. Other people were afraid of Japan. Moreso than Germany.
They sunk the Russians, sunk US, and came close to wiping out most of Asia.
In a way they are like Patrick Bateman. Sharp, outwardly innocuous, but they got a dark side.
We wear our intent on our sleeves because we are more like Deebo.
I'm pretty sure they just tell people it would take 6 months.
They have a civil(ish) attitude with China as long as money is involved but absolutely no love for Korea in general.
Japan is a bit of a wildcard. They kinda dont hide behind us as much as they use us to keep face. They have cultivated this nice guy, easy going hakuna matata image that Naval attacks, strat-nuking, and screeching paratroopers with SAWs and Gustavs would take another 70 years to live down.
It wasnt so much Japan was afraid of other people. Other people were afraid of Japan. Moreso than Germany.
They sunk the Russians, sunk US, and came close to wiping out most of Asia.
In a way they are like Patrick Bateman. Sharp, outwardly innocuous, but they got a dark side.
We wear our intent on our sleeves because we are more like Deebo.
This is true. They do have a hard-on for Korea, and rightfully so. They have become less "defense-postured" and more "offense-leaning" over the past couple decades, as the old post-WWII guys have moved on or died. If they wanted to go Berserker they could.
Jack Liu is blowing sunshine up your skirt; or he didn't get the memo.
NORAD didn't spirit away back into Cheyenne Mountain, and blow almost a billion dollars in the process, for the shits and grins of it.
They did it for nuclear AND EMP survivability. It's also an internet myth that it was closed and reopened, though they did shift ops to another base for a bit while Cheyene was upgraded. And that upgrade was to improve EMP resistance with newer equipment.
The math in the 38 North page jibes with what the scientific papers say. (and what I posted earlier)
It would take 15-20 superpower class (1MT) devices detonated at optimum altitude to blanket the US with a 50% or greater destructive EMP effect and create a national event.
A single one would cover a region. Even the 1000 km diameter is not 100% impact, the further from epicenter the lower the probability of the EMP effect. It's that pesky inverse square effect along with basic geometry.
Again, could be a very bad day. One good EMP event could take out power for 130M people, and cover 690 sq km. And according to many of the models, lead to power grid collapse/ripple events. We know they are vulnerable as we've seen the impact of solar storm events which are similar, but smaller. But even they caused regional outages.
There are many, many studies on this done by FEMA, Oak Ridge National Laboratories, etc. And studies/testing on how to survive EMP events. Many pro grade handheld and mobile radios would like survive. Many broadcast radios would if not connected to antennas. Pre-CPU cars would likely survive, and some CPU cars may. (the wires are too short and shielded by the body to be efficient antennas to capture the EMP). Devices with IC's (computers, and increasingly consumer devices) are at risk, but even some of them are well shielded and have short enough traces they will survive. Those connected to AC power and network connections are more at risk.
All that said: The risk/reward for an EMP event by a state actor makes it very unlikely outside of a suicide play. We'd survive, long term. They would not.
Could NORK fund/arm a non-state actor to pull off an EMP event? Not sure how they'd do it. Maybe give ISIS a sub and short range missile with a nuke. We'd figure out who armed them, but it'd be later. But if you have a sub and a nuke, why waste it on an EMP event when you could just do an outright attack?
Outlander Systems
05-09-17, 15:02
Cool. Sounds like we've got this in the bag.
Cool. Sounds like we've got this in the bag.
Hey, glad to be able to help! Sleep well tonight! :-)
And my offer to drive down on my biodiesel powered kubota tractor to pickup you, GTF, and Firefly still stands if there is an EMP event. :-) It will run with no wires! Wish I had kept my old diesel Trooper, it'd be a bit more comfortable. But also totally mechanical, assuming you push started it. But most of the Fed testing showed that car starter/batteries should be fine. Longterm, fuel availability would be the issue.
Like I said earlier, many other things to be concerned about. EMP *is* real. An attack would be bad. But the odds of an EMP only attack are pretty small. If a nation was willing to commit suicide, then they'd want to do more than an EMP attack.
With regard to the NORK's, I'd be far more concerned about a conventional conflict, and then a suicide nuclear play when it did not go Dear Leader's way. But that's just my read. (and an attempt to get back on topic)
Sorry pinz, but I'll be in the woods wearing nothing but a loin cloth fashioned from human ears if shit goes down. You guys will have to get your Road Warrior on without me.
Sorry pinz, but I'll be in the woods wearing nothing but a loin cloth fashioned from human ears if shit goes down. You guys will have to get your Road Warrior on without me.
Should have come to the Georgia Bushcraft festival then, would have fit right in! (Except for the human ears part).
Back to the topic, what does worry me is some global flare up (like NORK could trigger) causing a market panic/crash. Would make many retirements very sad, mine for sure. Any form of physical attack would be worse, even if localized. I just think the market is nervous, like a skittish horse.
Likewise, I'd not want to see even a conventional military scenario play out in Korea. Just not worth it. I'm all in favor of taking out bad leaders with clear human rights violations. Same for taking out nuclear or WMD infrastructure.
Not ready to do another democracy building exercise. Nor, do I think, is ROK.
Sorry pinz, but I'll be in the woods wearing nothing but a loin cloth fashioned from human ears if shit goes down. You guys will have to get your Road Warrior on without me.
We had plans.....
We was gonna wear tiger stripes, black out our faces, and have harems of volleyball amazons......
Plus we were going to tape two 249s to you and chuck you into sketchy rooms after pourinh whiskey in your gullet as a GTF bomb
Stick to the plaaaaaaan!!!
SeriousStudent
05-09-17, 19:21
Google "Bomb in the Basement"
They have a loooooot of stuff that any other country would get nailed for having as "constructive intent"
Is that the right book? It seems to be about the Israeli nuclear program, from reading the Amazon synopsis. Does it have a chapter on Japan?
Just curious, I'd like to find a bit more about the capabilities of Japan and also Brazil.
Thanks.
With the election of left leaning Moon Jae-In, in South Korea, things just got a little more complicated for the United States. Anyone remember a policy of engagement the South Koreans promoted for ten years, ending almost a decade ago: Sunshine Policy. A weird name for a program of appeasement towards the North.
Is that the right book? It seems to be about the Israeli nuclear program, from reading the Amazon synopsis. Does it have a chapter on Japan?
Just curious, I'd like to find a bit more about the capabilities of Japan and also Brazil.
Thanks.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.cnbc.com/amp/2014/03/11/japans-bomb-in-the-basement.html
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/fukushima-anniversary/japan-has-nuclear-bomb-basement-china-isn-t-happy-n48976
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/yes-japan-could-build-nuclear-weapons-what-cost-18019
No idea about Brazil, but Japan can get something going if it doesnt have a few just in case.
They have more refined nuclear capability than most and if Iran or anyone else was at their level; people would not be happy.
If I lived that close to NK, I would not blame them
SeriousStudent
05-09-17, 20:31
Interesting links, thank you.
And yes, if that pudgy little weirdo moved into the house next door, I'd likely inventory my own supplies as well. I certainly don't blame the Japanese for doing just that.
HardToHandle
05-09-17, 20:45
The Japanese decided to not build a weapon. The old LDP was never going to build a device, no way, no matter the technical know how that Mitsubishi and other companies had. That said, post Fukushima Japan is still 3-4 generations from building a bomb. There is still more national/racial pride in Japan than Germany, but anti nuclear sentiment in Japan is nearly brainwashing.
The fastest way to bring on a Japanese bomb is to withdraw the US nuclear blanket. Over the last nine years, I cannot say anything is impossible in the helter skelter US foreign policy.
Apparently, DPRK citizens aren't worshiping KJU in private, only in the public: https://www.yahoo.com/news/kim-jong-un-losing-control-190725935.html
10 May - US and DPRK diplomats meet in Norway.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/away-sabre-rattling-north-korean-044522962.html
You know, I hate to proffer this on an open forum but....
Would the current conditions be right for a "Bay of Pyongyang" deal?
I believe the Kim Il Sung cult of personality was legit. The Kim Jong Il was kinda there, but KJU seems immature, weak, and not fully in control.
It seems like his own guys are sabotaging him and to have the PRC bearing on him is remarkable.
I dont think a unification necessarily or even a democratic rule, but it seems like there could be a chance for a real regime change more akin to modern Vietnam or perhaps a Chinization similar to Macau or something.
Avoid a war, remove Stalinism, and have a moderate DPRK.
Just a thought
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-11-17, 01:05
With the election of left leaning Moon Jae-In, in South Korea, things just got a little more complicated for the United States. Anyone remember a policy of engagement the South Koreans promoted for ten years, ending almost a decade ago: Sunshine Policy. A weird name for a program of appeasement towards the North.
I know some Korean business people that are very deferential to the people and the situation up north. Hey, their civil war. If they don't want to fix it, at least be aware that if we go heavy, they are going to get the fall out, literally.
Outlander Systems
05-11-17, 06:23
Best COA would be to have George Soros fund a color revolution, and let the problem take care of itself.
You know, I hate to proffer this on an open forum but....
Would the current conditions be right for a "Bay of Pyongyang" deal?
I believe the Kim Il Sung cult of personality was legit. The Kim Jong Il was kinda there, but KJU seems immature, weak, and not fully in control.
It seems like his own guys are sabotaging him and to have the PRC bearing on him is remarkable.
I dont think a unification necessarily or even a democratic rule, but it seems like there could be a chance for a real regime change more akin to modern Vietnam or perhaps a Chinization similar to Macau or something.
Avoid a war, remove Stalinism, and have a moderate DPRK.
Just a thought
Averageman
05-11-17, 10:12
You know, I hate to proffer this on an open forum but....
Would the current conditions be right for a "Bay of Pyongyang" deal?
I believe the Kim Il Sung cult of personality was legit. The Kim Jong Il was kinda there, but KJU seems immature, weak, and not fully in control.
It seems like his own guys are sabotaging him and to have the PRC bearing on him is remarkable.
I dont think a unification necessarily or even a democratic rule, but it seems like there could be a chance for a real regime change more akin to modern Vietnam or perhaps a Chinization similar to Macau or something.
Avoid a war, remove Stalinism, and have a moderate DPRK.
Just a thought
That would likely be what is best for everyone.
Once someone gets even a small taste of capitalism it sticks, it could motivate an entire population forward and in to this century.
That would likely be what is best for everyone.
Once someone gets even a small taste of capitalism it sticks, it could motivate an entire population forward and in to this century.
That has been my thinking for years about Cuba. Load them up with flat screen TVs, Levis, iPhones, McDonalds, American Movies, American Prime Time TV and everything American we can flood the place with. Make it easier to spend US Dollars there and flood it with Greenbacks.
The Greatest American export during the 20th Century was it's Culture.....for better or worse.
Interesting article on using gaming theory with regard to North Korea:
http://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2017/05/12/conventional_artillery_and_nuclear__missiles_in_north_korea_111363.html
Why is this issue so hard to solve?? Bring our troops home from South Korea and destroy our bases on the way out. Tell the Chi-coms they have 30 days to eliminate the fat little bastard or we stop all imports from China. I could care less if Wal-Mart shuts down. Americans can take up the slack. Tell the Ruskis and europe that we will No longer allow imports or exports from them if they continue to do business with NK. It's not that hard... Money talks and bullshit walks.
Our economy so heavily dependent on china that I really don't think we're in a position to back that bluff up. But, I'm really not looking forward to going over there...
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get a bunch of counter type rockets all along the border every time they test a rocket shoot it out of the sky as quick as we can :)
I think a sniper could take care of the fat problem.
Our economy so heavily dependent on china that I really don't think we're in a position to back that bluff up.
that's where your wrong. first, people in the US love money so much they will figure out a way to compensate, its literally the only reason Asian countries do business with the US. They hate our business ethics and aggressive "get rich quick" business models, but they depend on us because they know we will sue our own family for the right amount of money.
second, we have sold China so much worthless paper debt that we left them literally holding the bag. Think about it. What collateral does China have against our bonds? Nothing! Obviously not money, not gold, not real estate. Yet they keep buying them, hundreds of billions of dollars worth of them every year, everything from mortgage bonds, parks and wildlife bonds, teachers bonds you name it. Because our bonds are 98% triple A rated. The highest in the world! That's a pretty scary place to be. Think about it. I think that is one of the greatest tactical plans we have ever had. China is SO dependent on the US paying back those loans and continuing to do business with them on a daily basis. If we even mentioned stopping trade with china, the NYSE would take a huge hit, but china would wouldn't be able to come back from that. China receives almost $300 billion a month thanks to the US economy, $3.6 trillion a year down the drain, a little over a 1/3!
The US needs to quit worrying about China! The best thing that came from China is the $40 happy ending massage parlors and sweet and sour chicken!
Why is this issue so hard to solve?? Bring our troops home from South Korea and destroy our bases on the way out. Tell the Chi-coms they have 30 days to eliminate the fat little bastard or we stop all imports from China. I could care less if Wal-Mart shuts down. Americans can take up the slack. Tell the Ruskis and europe that we will No longer allow imports or exports from them if they continue to do business with NK. It's not that hard... Money talks and bullshit walks.
Since a state of War still exists between the US and North Korea, this could be seen as a tactical retreat. Seems like a clean way to solve the problem, but without all that Chinese crap sold here, our economy would probably collapse. It's not just Wal-Mart peddling those goods. The final solution to this is a hit on Porky the Nork. If not, then it's going to be some kind of military action.
As much as I self-identify with a few Libertarian stances, the Rand & Ron Paul foreign policy on the geopolitical stage is not realistic. It's too idealistic, especially in a world where power projection is the way our enemies operate.
Ummmmmmm, why?
NK doesn't substantially threaten the US. Meanwhile how many $ Billions a year are sent to Saudi Arabia and countries/governments that actively work to subvert and weaken the US?
Ummmmmmm, why?
NK doesn't substantially threaten the US.
I have no idea what their real capabilities are, but I'd probably agree with you if I didn't live in Hawaii. It's a legitimate concern of mine.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have no idea what their real capabilities are, but I'd probably agree with you if I didn't live in Hawaii. It's a legitimate concern of mine.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I get that, but nuclear threats from nations/states are deterred by the obvious implied (in addition to explicit) threat of massive obliterating retaliation.
It has become apparent that it is harder to deter threats when they come from inside the government, deep state, etc.
Europe and the entire "West" are being threatened and warred on demographically/economically via mass migration/invasion, not nukes.
Ummmmmmm, why?
NK doesn't substantially threaten the US. Meanwhile how many $ Billions a year are sent to Saudi Arabia and countries/governments that actively work to subvert and weaken the US?
Maybe we should spend some of those Billions of $ to actively subvert and weaken North Korea? Maybe a better return on investment? The threat is low now, but if unchecked, a big problem in the future.
SeriousStudent
07-04-17, 23:54
I get that, but nuclear threats from nations/states are deterred by the obvious implied (in addition to explicit) threat of massive obliterating retaliation.
It has become apparent that it is harder to deter threats when they come from inside the government, deep state, etc.
Europe and the entire "West" are being threatened and warred on demographically/economically via mass migration/invasion, not nukes.
This thread is about North Korea. Stay focused on that or leave the thread.
That's not a suggestion.
I have no idea what their real capabilities are, but I'd probably agree with you if I didn't live in Hawaii. It's a legitimate concern of mine.
N Korea has been at war with the Sea of Japan for a few years. It will be some time before they can reach Hawaii. People act like an ICBM launch from N Korea would take us by surprise and make it into sub orbit and reach US soil without us knowing about it. I'm sure the NSA monitors all forms of communication, I'm sure the entire US Navy has advanced early warning hardware and weapon systems already deployed, geo satellites and a missile defense system in S Korea. The US doesn't approve of the N Korean missile test but we allow it to see there capabilities. There is a reason we don't call there bluff. We watch and learn and we devise a plan all while N Korea thinks its standing up to us, in fact, they are making it easy for us.
Syria has Russia's so called "advanced" 6th generation radar and "advanced" threat detection systems in place along with a stand alone missile defense system all supplied by Russia, yet couldn't stop not 1 but over 50 Tomahawk cruise missiles from hitting a air base that both Syria and Russia was occupying. The US Navy ships that launched those cruise missiles were hundreds of miles off the coast. They had plenty of time to react. Was someone asleep? No, Russian Technology is SHIT!!! Russian technology is where China gets its technology and Chinese technology is where N Korea gets there's. N Korea's military is made up of old tired men. There is credible evidence indicating that most of there missiles used in propaganda are fake. A lot of experts claim that they build these out of sheet metal in sweat shops and move them around the country knowing the US as well as UK and Japan monitor there movements 24 hours a day.
Here is the leader of N Korea standing in front of what appears to be an advanced modern air force!
46339
Nevermind the "parade" where they pay 500,000 people to dress up, the real N Korean army looks like this.
46341
This is literally the N Korean Special forces. Are you serious? Seal Team 6 has top secret prototype stealth helicopters and N Korea is flying propeller driven aircraft from the 70's.
46342
This is just F'n pathetic. Total Garbage!!! I think we could win a war with N Korea only using only Blackwater or the FNG's in the National Guard Reserves.
46343
BoringGuy45
07-05-17, 01:48
N Korea has been at war with the Sea of Japan for a few years. It will be some time before they can reach Hawaii. People act like an ICBM launch from N Korea would take us by surprise and make it into sub orbit and reach US soil without us knowing about it. I'm sure the NSA monitors all forms of communication, I'm sure the entire US Navy has advanced early warning hardware and weapon systems already deployed, geo satellites and a missile defense system in S Korea. The US doesn't approve of the N Korean missile test but we allow it to see there capabilities. There is a reason we don't call there bluff. We watch and learn and we devise a plan all while N Korea thinks its standing up to us, in fact, they are making it easy for us.
Syria has Russia's so called "advanced" 6th generation radar and "advanced" threat detection systems in place along with a stand alone missile defense system all supplied by Russia, yet couldn't stop not 1 but over 50 Tomahawk cruise missiles from hitting a air base that both Syria and Russia was occupying. The US Navy ships that launched those cruise missiles were hundreds of miles off the coast. They had plenty of time to react. Was someone asleep? No, Russian Technology is SHIT!!! Russian technology is where China gets its technology and Chinese technology is where N Korea gets there's. N Korea's military is made up of old tired men. There is credible evidence indicating that most of there missiles used in propaganda are fake. A lot of experts claim that they build these out of sheet metal in sweat shops and move them around the country knowing the US as well as UK and Japan monitor there movements 24 hours a day.
Here is the leader of N Korea standing in front of what appears to be an advanced modern air force!
46339
Nevermind the "parade" where they pay 500,000 people to dress up, the real N Korean army looks like this.
46341
This is literally the N Korean Special forces. Are you serious? Seal Team 6 has top secret prototype stealth helicopters and N Korea is flying propeller driven aircraft from the 70's.
46342
This is just F'n pathetic. Total Garbage!!! I think we could win a war with N Korea only using only Blackwater or the FNG's in the National Guard Reserves.
46343
+1000
Ever since the Cold War started and since it ended, for whatever reason, the world is always convinced that Russian technology is absolutely cutting edge, possibly on par with, but most likely superior to, US technology. Yet in EVERY conflict that's pitted our gear against Russian gear, we've prevailed.
Someone once asked how a given situation turned into a disaster.The response was, "Well, gradually; then suddenly". All you need to know about world history, right there.
+1000
Ever since the Cold War started and since it ended, for whatever reason, the world is always convinced that Russian technology is absolutely cutting edge, possibly on par with, but most likely superior to, US technology. Yet in EVERY conflict that's pitted our gear against Russian gear, we've prevailed.
Exactly!!!!! We are not even officially in a war with Syria who is backed by Russia yet our equipment has taken out a lot of Russian military hardware. An F-16A flown by Turkish military shot down a Russian Su-24 with a sidewinder missile from the mid 1990's. An F/A-18E just shot down a SU-22 over Syria in broad daylight. Many T-54's, T-55's, T-72's, BMP-2's, BM-27's, ZSY-57's and TOS-1's have been destroyed by a simple $8k wire guided TOW missile from over a mile away. Not to mention over 50 Tomahawk cruise missiles destroyed 9 SU-22's, 6 Mig-23's, 4 Mil-24's, 2 Mil-17's, 1 TU-22, 1 Mig-25 not to mention the entire airfield in just under an hour from over 200 miles away....at night. Most of those planes were stored in bomb proof reinforced concrete hardened aircraft shelters under many feet of dirt.
So I'm not worried about a conflict with Russia. I will sleep well. There best submarines are dry docked and being scrapped or rotting on the bottom of the ocean floor. There best aircraft are comparable to the F-4 Phantom II or F-18A. We lost 24 fixed wing aircraft in 1991 (Desert Storm), mostly to the Soviet supplied Sa-2 and S-125 and 9K31 SAM's. Iraq lost 259 aircraft, 105 of those in combat, out of the 105, 43 lost to Apache and Cobra helicopters....Sad!! Iraq's SCUD-B missiles (supplied by Soviet Union) were ok, a total of 88 were fired in Desert Storm, 46 into Saudi Arabia and 42 into Israel, the PATRIOT missile destroyed 45 out of the 47 they intercepted, a 95% accuracy from a distance greater than 50 miles.... at night... in foul weather...with less than a few seconds reaction time.
Someone once asked how a given situation turned into a disaster.The response was, "Well, gradually; then suddenly". All you need to know about world history, right there.
"Well, gradually....then suddenly".......yep, about right.
Regarding Com-Block technology, as a former Army Aviator, I would like to get a peek or more in the latest Russian KA-52 Alligator. North Korea doesn't have the latest technology for most things, but their field artillery could devastate Soul, S. Korea. This is a growing problem that won't go away by ignoring it, or expecting someone else to the job for us.
This is not an easy fix, no matter what routes we take,
ramairthree
07-05-17, 09:49
Take a detailed look at the multiple concentric rings of radar and anti aircraft capability in NK with highly experienced experts.
It is formidable.
They have other assets to inflict a lot of hurt on innocent people and the time to do so while the above is being addressed.
The most effective and efficient way to deal with it has lots of beyond 2nd and 3rd order effects.
It's not that we could not crush them.
But we have failed to wage crushing war against anyone for decades.
Maybe we should spend some of those Billions of $ to actively subvert and weaken North Korea? Maybe a better return on investment? The threat is low now, but if unchecked, a big problem in the future.
I believe we do no? I thought we had a extensive program dedicated to just that goal. How effective it's been, I have no idea as it's way above my pay grade.
Going OT, there's a 160th SOAR bird (Tail Number: 91-26388) on display at the UDT-SEAL museum, the only one civis can see I believe. The pilot was in not long ago and donated his helmet, which is now included in the display.
"On January 25, 2012, a team of United States Navy SEALs raided a compound 12 miles north of the Somali town of Adow, killing nine Somali pirates and freeing their hostages, U.S. citizen Jessica Buchanan and Danish citizen Poul Hagen Thisted. This Black Hawk flew Jessica & Poul out to safety!"
More: https://www.navysealmuseum.org/home-to-artifacts-from-the-secret-world-of-naval-special-warfare/sikorsky-uh-60-black-hawk-helicopter
How about offering $1B for Baron Harkonnen's head?
Going OT, there's a 160th SOAR bird (Tail Number: 91-26388) on display at the UDT-SEAL museum, the only one civis can see I believe. The pilot was in not long ago and donated his helmet, which is now included in the display.
"On January 25, 2012, a team of United States Navy SEALs raided a compound 12 miles north of the Somali town of Adow, killing nine Somali pirates and freeing their hostages, U.S. citizen Jessica Buchanan and Danish citizen Poul Hagen Thisted. This Black Hawk flew Jessica & Poul out to safety!"
More: https://www.navysealmuseum.org/home-to-artifacts-from-the-secret-world-of-naval-special-warfare/sikorsky-uh-60-black-hawk-helicopter
Thanks for the link. I promoted out of the 160th 23 years ago....and we're still in Somalia. I still attend annual functions when possible.
Perhaps we can invade North Korea, bomb it to smithereens, really piss off its people, then open our borders to millions of military-aged male "refugees" and shower them with free gibsmedats.
Seems to be the SOP for dealing with everyone else. Why change course now?
Perhaps you can invade North Korea, bomb it to smithereens, really piss off its people, then open your borders to millions of military-aged male "refugees" and shower them with free gibsmedats.
Seems to be the SOP for dealing with everyone else. Why change course now?
Fixed it for you. Welcome back. :)
This whole mess is probably going to be set off by one of North Korea's ICBMs landing on Japanese soil....by accident. Even with just a dummy warhead, that could get the ball rolling.
Eventually North Korea will get desperate. They can only keep their population and major problems under control for so long. Eventually things are going to rapidly disintegrate
The decisions they make and actions they take at that point will be very interesting.
Does anyone expect Little-Fat-boy to go out peacefully and without doing something full on retard? I do not.
NK will coalesce into some type of conflict for us and regional players. It's inevitable.
What should we do then? It's a tough nut to crack and I assume the USA, China, Japan, Russia, et al will just allow the situation to boil-over in a sense instead of intervening prior to the S hitting the F. Then it will be all reactionary ffrom there and who knows what will go down.
Doc Safari
07-05-17, 14:04
The only thing holding us up on North Korea is
1) What China might do
2) What NK might do to South Korea.
South Korea might really have some things to worry about. Kim could inflict some real casualties before the US got really mobilized for a counterstrike. Hmmmm...sounds like Operation Desert Shield all over again.
I remember just before Desert Storm we were told that Saddam Hussein's army was one of the largest and best equipped in the world, and that a war with Iraq would be a bloodbath for our military even if we eventually won.
We annihilated their military capabilities in a little over a month.
China? Who knows. They don't play be western rules. They are the real wild card.
I think our best move would be to sabotage North Korea's nuclear capabilities from the inside (cyber?) and cause an "accident" that takes out Pyongyang and Kim without landing a single marine on the Korean peninsula or launching a single cruise missile from a single ship.
Regarding Russian, Chinese, Syrian. NK military technology. My whole life we were told how great the Soviet technology was. We are still being told, oh my Russian anti aircraft systems in Syria means the USA will be shot out of the sky.
Well I don't know about the USAF and their missions over Syria, but the IAF plays in Syrian airspace all the time. When was the last time you heard about an Israeli plan being shot down over Syria?
I think the answer is simple NK has only 2 banks that does business with them. Sanction these 2 banks, no international wire transfers. Then sanction every country that does business with NK, cut them off from international trade and banking.
The fat little turd will get popped in the head by a general, the day after the general doesn't get paid or fed.
I'm sure an attack on N Korea on any scale would be a mistake for a few reasons.
1. They have nothing to loose. And literally hundreds of thousands of people that are disposable. You will see 50 year olds in combat using WW2 era weapons. N Korea would throw a wild haymaker hoping to land just one good hit.
2. N Korea could retaliate with short range rockets, mortars, artillery against S Korea, Japan and US base. On a scale from 1-10 this would be a 2 but could injure and kill a lot of civilians, which is what I think the purpose would be. Massive casualties. They could launch thousands of obsolete Korean War era rockets out to sea just to keep our Navy busy and wear us down. They could launch several "static" missiles into the air just to keep us occupied with counter measures- both China and Russia as well as Iran would take note on how well we perform our counter measures so, in essence, it would be a catch 22, we would have to use multi million dollar weapons to take down Korean War ear weapons which cost us time yet our enemies get a closer look at our capabilities.
3. The people in N Korea think Kim Jong is GOD and are willing to die for him. There are rumors that he himself has his own personal whore house filled with the hottest 9's and 10's in N Korea. People actually fast for several days when Kim got a runny nose, they fast for sympathy, there was a whole month of mourning when his dad died.
4. N Korea would create more Kamikaze suicide militants than all of islam!
agree but
1: yes he has his power and empire to loose and he knows its all a fake front ! so he talks but wont act he knows the truth !
as far as people ? they would have to run to the destination ? they do not have enough fuel to get them anywhere and when they did they would not have enough to feed them
2: short range yup and the other side could pull back and destroy with longer range and it would be much worse for NK
3: I think some of that is going away and they do it in fear and might just run away with hands up in hopes to get to the other side ?
most everything they do is cause they have to the olders who are not sneaking all the west info dont see it but the ones more able do see the truth
4: and once you said here is a sandwich they would be like OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH and again I am not sure so many able would be willing to do that especially once they got to the destination and saw the lie they were being told
just some thoughts :)
I'm sure an attack on N Korea on any scale would be a mistake for a few reasons.
1. They have nothing to loose. And literally hundreds of thousands of people that are disposable. You will see 50 year olds in combat using WW2 era weapons. N Korea would throw a wild haymaker hoping to land just one good hit.
2. N Korea could retaliate with short range rockets, mortars, artillery against S Korea, Japan and US base. On a scale from 1-10 this would be a 2 but could injure and kill a lot of civilians, which is what I think the purpose would be. Massive casualties. They could launch thousands of obsolete Korean War era rockets out to sea just to keep our Navy busy and wear us down. They could launch several "static" missiles into the air just to keep us occupied with counter measures- both China and Russia as well as Iran would take note on how well we perform our counter measures so, in essence, it would be a catch 22, we would have to use multi million dollar weapons to take down Korean War ear weapons which cost us time yet our enemies get a closer look at our capabilities.
3. The people in N Korea think Kim Jong is GOD and are willing to die for him. There are rumors that he himself has his own personal whore house filled with the hottest 9's and 10's in N Korea. People actually fast for several days when Kim got a runny nose, they fast for sympathy, there was a whole month of mourning when his dad died.
4. N Korea would create more Kamikaze suicide militants than all of islam!
This is just F'n pathetic. Total Garbage!!! I think we could win a war with N Korea only using only Blackwater or the FNG's in the National Guard Reserves.
46343
Wow. When you have to put decorations on your pants, maybe it's time to consider a ribbon bar. But seriously, you have to love those gigantically large and out of proportion visor caps. Reminds me of something out of a 1950s Mars invasion movie.
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