View Full Version : Mike Lamb admits to Stolen Valor
http://www.breachbangclear.com/mike-lamb-comes-clean/
Disappointing and surprising.
Looks like Mike did not claim anything, but people mistakenly assumed he was a recon marine and he decided to run with it for 15 years. Not good.
I talked to Michael Lamb of Stoic Ventures tonight. He wanted to tell me he was never actually Recon Marine.
Lamb has for many years claimed to be a Marine Corps Force Reconnaissance veteran, and someone who worked for assorted government agencies. Only the latter part of that, he told me quietly, is legitimate.
Said Lamb,
“I’d rather just come on out and get it out there. There’s nothing more to say about it. I came into the Marines as an intel guy, started working at the NSA, and got some deployments out of it. The deployments were national intelligence teams [three letter agencies, ed]. That’s all true. But I was never Recon. Someone called me out on it, and I copped to it. It’s nothing I didn’t bring to my own doorstep. I could easily have shut it down, and I didn’t. It’s a lie I’ve been living for twenty years.
Leonidas24
05-03-17, 03:09
This industry breeds this type of behavior unfortunately. i.e. Cory Jackson -- the difference is Cory ran and hid, and got tactical douchelord of the greater Tennessee dojo for mall ninjas James Yeager ad Johnn Willis to back him up. At least Lamb called it like it is, apologized, and is retreating into obscurity. I wish him the best of luck, I always enjoyed his video tutorials.
While we're on the subject, I always hate it when XYZ instructor or internet celebrity leads off with "When I was a Recon Marine/Raider/SEAL/Green Beret/Ranger/CAG/Tier1doorkickerwhodoesn'ttakeshitfromnoone/etc" it irks me. I wasn't a super duper highspeed badass when I was in, I was in the Infantry, and that shouldn't have any bearing on whether or not I know WTF I'm talking about. Slayed some bodies with a .50 cal, and that has absolutely no direct relation to defending oneself with a pistol, or a carbine inside/outside the home. The worst way to launch into any sales pitch is to brag about oneself to gain notoriety with your customer, whether they're a student, or a firearm purchaser.
While we're on the subject, I always hate it when XYZ instructor or internet celebrity leads off with "When I was a Recon Marine/Raider/SEAL/Green Beret/Ranger/CAG/Tier1doorkickerwhodoesn'ttakeshitfromnoone/etc" it irks me. I wasn't a super duper highspeed badass when I was in, I was in the Infantry, and that shouldn't have any bearing on whether or not I know WTF I'm talking about. Slayed some bodies with a .50 cal, and that has absolutely no direct relation to defending oneself with a pistol, or a carbine inside/outside the home. The worst way to launch into any sales pitch is to brag about oneself to gain notoriety with your customer, whether they're a student, or a firearm purchaser.
Yes, and no. I think being in CAG/DEVGRU helps develop street cred. This was more important before 9/11 when they were the only ones getting any real trigger time. I think time as a card-carrying grunt though can also lay down street cred. I prefer instructors who have been there/done that, and I really appreciate the ones who are been there/done that and are OK saying, "this works for me, but if it doesn't work for you, that's OK."
That said, I have had classes with non-mil guys who knew their shit up one side and down the other. I think the key is to separate the wheat from the chaff, get around personalities, and learn something new.
Regarding the nature of the topic, I find it incredible that in today's internet age anyone can get away with Stolen Valor.
Not speaking for him but a general observation of something I myself experience, which is others assigning something to you and being you didn't do it, letting it pass. It's essential to shut that down early or it takes on a life of it's own and you'll get blamed for it. I had some mags say I had a PhD in my bio. I could have let it go but I knew it would be called out some day, and I'd take the blame. I had them publish a correction.
No doubt, much stolen valor is created by the person themselves, but some is probably assigned to them by others and the person lets it go figuring no harm done and it adds to their creds without them having being the source.
If anything, be low key about achievements and let others dig them up.
Regarding the nature of the topic, I find it incredible that in today's internet age anyone can get away with Stolen Valor.
Especially for twenty years!
My military time was pretty short. It was still a major part in my life. I am still proud of what I did, what I learned about myself and the friendships I made.
Wow. Crazy it went on that long. He says he was always looking over his shoulder,and just wanted to come clean, but I think him admitting he lied had more to do with others calling him out then him feeling bad about it.
With that said, I just will never understand why people do this? If you served at all in any capacity, I believe that's something to be proud of. I don't care if you were a cook for 4 years. Just don't lie about it.
I did some pretty knarly s*** as a Marine, and there's not a day in my life that I don't think about the things (good and bad) that happened while I was deployed, but I don't really feel the need to lie about any of it, or beef my stories up.
If I was worth my salt, I'll leave it up to the men I served with to tell you that, not me. If anyone says something that's not accurate, it's on me to say something.
Not speaking for him but a general observation of something I myself experience, which is others assigning something to you and being you didn't do it, letting it pass. It's essential to shut that down early or it takes on a life of it's own and you'll get blamed for it. I had some mags say I had a PhD in my bio. I could have let it go but I knew it would be called out some day, and I'd take the blame. I had them publish a correction.
No doubt, much stolen valor is created by the person themselves, but some is probably assigned to them by others and the person lets it go figuring no harm done and it adds to their creds without them having being the source.
If anything, be low key about achievements and let others dig them up.
I would agree, lies of omission are easy to perpetuate into myths, and often start as benign. "Holy cow, you know Will? He only got a NAM for that raid." Two months later "Will was the heat, he got a Bronze Star on that raid..." And it goes on. Yes, once the subject of the story gets wind, it is incumbent upon him/her to get ahead of it, stop it, and correct it. Knowing about it and letting it go is no bueno.
I would agree, lies of omission are easy to perpetuate into myths, and often start as benign. "Holy cow, you know Will? He only got a NAM for that raid." Two months later "Will was the heat, he got a Bronze Star on that raid..." And it goes on. Yes, once the subject of the story gets wind, it is incumbent upon him/her to get ahead of it, stop it, and correct it. Knowing about it and letting it go is no bueno.
Yes, once they take on a life of their own, very difficult to ever get in front of, and many just give up at some point.
Not to defend the guy, but some of this type of thing is due to general public ignorance about the nuances of mil stuff.
Prime examples:
Ranger School vs being a Ranger (in regiment). Yet RS students and grads are called "Rangers" in some contexts, yet adamantly not in others.
You see it in the news all the time and even face to face e interactions. (Most recently with the females)
Same for Sniper School vs being a Sniper MOS.
Recon school/training vs Marine Recon or Army LRS/Scout, etc
I don't think Dave Canterbury set out to commit stolen valor, but sure did not correct it and even adopted "Army Sniper" in his bio.
The worst is the long tab SF issue vs being in an SF unit in a support role. And to a certain extent, the 75th is similar.
Or SFAS grads who were med drops, etc. And you'd think they'd know.
I've watched Ranger Sxhool grads carefully correct folks who called them an Army Ranger, Literally dozens of times.
"But those guys (RTB) just called you Ranger??? I'm confused"
That's really too bad. I liked his videos
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-03-17, 09:44
Can't you also be in a Marine Recon unit but not done the training, or was that just a Vietnam thing? Not saying that in this case.
I would agree, lies of omission are easy to perpetuate into myths, and often start as benign. "Holy cow, you know Will? He only got a NAM for that raid." Two months later "Will was the heat, he got a Bronze Star on that raid..." And it goes on. Yes, once the subject of the story gets wind, it is incumbent upon him/her to get ahead of it, stop it, and correct it. Knowing about it and letting it go is no bueno.
Much of it centers around money. There is a whole industry supporting this behavior with books, movie deals, training gigs, and donations to be had. Some of the more egregious examples get ignored because the BS is interwoven with legit accomplishments, or the military turns a blind eye to the behavior because it's good for recruiting. Others find it easy to perpetuate their lies because so many of us need to believe in Superman and Captain America.
Can't you also be in a Marine Recon unit but not done the training, or was that just a Vietnam thing? Not saying that in this case.
You can be in and not have completed the pipeline (i.e., diver, airborne, SERE, etc.) but you have to have completed BRC (what used to be ARS).
I think this is pretty common. So common, that I can think of at least 10 different instructors that have either intentionally or accidentally misled their students. How does it happen? One way is when a student makes the assumption that an instructor was in a certain group (like Force Recon), asks a question about said group and the instructor never corrects the student. Then it spreads to the net. The next way is if said instructor was attached to said group, but as a support element. The instructor leaves the part out that he was an "intel/comms/etc" guy assigned to the group.
For instance, Naval Cryptologists (which is what I was) are assigned to SEAL teams. So in my BIO, it "could" say that my last command was DEVGRU. What would the assumption be???
C4
WickedWillis
05-03-17, 11:13
I'm okay with the way he came forward and admitted it. I'm not okay with him taking credit for an accomplishment he didn't earn however. I have always found his videos and information good, and useful, but I never once dug into his background.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-03-17, 11:18
I was on the 11th MEU in 2011. Our Maritime Raid Force (MRF) was a Marine Recon Unit dispersed among the three ships. My buddy (both of us POGS) was assigned as the MRF Admin Chief. He attended and participated in all training conducted by the MRF and did some really high speed stuff. However, he was not Recon or even Infantry, yet he was serving in the same capacity as the Recon Marines. I believe, I could be wrong, his role during raids (there were no raids on my float) was to provide security.
So, you have an 0111 serving alongside 0321's in a similar, not same, capacity. Things can get muddy sometimes when giving uneducated people a description of what you did in the military. Me, I was in the 01 field and never fired a shot in anger, cool right? Lol.
As for this Mike Lamb guy? Never heard of him. For a second, I was scared we were talking about KYLE Lamb.
For instance, Naval Cryptologists (which is what I was) are assigned to SEAL teams. So in my BIO, it "could" say that my last command was DEVGRU. What would the assumption be???
I was assigned to Recon, and even did a stint assigned to NSWG 3. Although I very proud of what I have done, I am always quick to point out that I was neither a SARC nor a SEAL doc. It could have been interpreted that way, though.
For a second, I was scared we were talking about KYLE Lamb.
Now that would be devastating....
While we're on the subject, I always hate it when XYZ instructor or internet celebrity leads off with "When I was a Recon Marine/Raider/SEAL/Green Beret/Ranger/CAG/Tier1doorkickerwhodoesn'ttakeshitfromnoone/etc" it irks me. I wasn't a super duper highspeed badass when I was in, I was in the Infantry, and that shouldn't have any bearing on whether or not I know WTF I'm talking about. Slayed some bodies with a .50 cal, and that has absolutely no direct relation to defending oneself with a pistol, or a carbine inside/outside the home. The worst way to launch into any sales pitch is to brag about oneself to gain notoriety with your customer, whether they're a student, or a firearm purchaser.
I think this could be a thread onto itself. While there are some guys who were legit tip of the spear, IE LAV, who know their shit forward, backward, and upside down. He is also someone I would consider a true student of the gun as well as one who never stopped his own training. Not saying everything he would say I agree with, but on that another point. Just because you were SEALs, Delta, Ranger, Green Beret, Ranger, or a sniper or whatever doesn't mean that you know guns, know how to teach, or even know anything really beyond what you were trained and told. I've had a guy who was legit sniper trained, and he still parroted the same "A .50BMG going past your body will rip your limbs off because of the sonic shockwave." BS. The flip side if you can have guys who were a non-combat MOS who due to a desire or passion can become an expert in the firearms fields.
On a final note. I look at a SEAL, Ranger, Tier 1 badass background with about the same outlook as an NRA Instructor background. Well.... okay, not quite like an NRA Instructor background, if legit the Ranger, SEAL, CAG, ect required more work and for the individual to actually be in shape at some point but the point I am leaning towards here, is just because you were that or have that certification doesn't mean you can teach. Honest. You might have been death on wheels, but can you convene that to students to make them better shooters, to help them grow, to impart a mindset in a training environment that may help them save their life or the lives of others? Honestly, I'd argue I don't want to take classes from most of these guys, I want to take classes from the guys who trained their guys to be death on wheels. So in short I'd be looking at less who the guy has worked with and more were they ever in a position where it was their JOB as to teach the guys doing the door kicking and face shooting the best way to kick the door and shoot tangos in the face? And if they didn't do that what have they done since to show that they know what the hell it is that they are talking about?
I was assigned to Recon, and even did a stint assigned to NSWG 3. Although I very proud of what I have done, I am always quick to point out that I was neither a SARC nor a SEAL doc. It could have been interpreted that way, though.
As you should be proud of your service to your country and going into harms way. Your background could easily be seen (from a CIVY's POV) that you were HSLD.
C4
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-03-17, 11:38
I think this could be a thread onto itself. While there are some guys who were legit tip of the spear, IE LAV, who know their shit forward, backward, and upside down. He is also someone I would consider a true student of the gun as well as one who never stopped his own training. Not saying everything he would say I agree with, but on that another point. Just because you were SEALs, Delta, Ranger, Green Beret, Ranger, or a sniper or whatever doesn't mean that you know guns, know how to teach, or even know anything really beyond what you were trained and told. I've had a guy who was legit sniper trained, and he still parroted the same "A .50BMG going past your body will rip your limbs off because of the sonic shockwave." BS. The flip side if you can have guys who were a non-combat MOS who due to a desire or passion can become an expert in the firearms fields.
On a final note. I look at a SEAL, Ranger, Tier 1 badass background with about the same outlook as an NRA Instructor background. Well.... okay, not quite like an NRA Instructor background, if legit the Ranger, SEAL, CAG, ect required more work and for the individual to actually be in shape at some point but the point I am leaning towards here, is just because you were that or have that certification doesn't mean you can teach. Honest. You might have been death on wheels, but can you convene that to students to make them better shooters, to help them grow, to impart a mindset in a training environment that may help them save their life or the lives of others? Honestly, I'd argue I don't want to take classes from most of these guys, I want to take classes from the guys who trained their guys to be death on wheels. So in short I'd be looking at less who the guy has worked with and more were they ever in a position where it was their JOB as to teach the guys doing the door kicking and face shooting the best way to kick the door and shoot tangos in the face? And if they didn't do that what have they done since to show that they know what the hell it is that they are talking about?
Agreed. My boss is a badass, and retired as an ACTUAL Ranger. He is not, however, a tactical gun guy. He can tell all about hunting, but he'd never profess to being a tactical trainer just because he was a Ranger for +/- 20 years.
Digital_Damage
05-03-17, 12:23
Wait... you only had to be attached to a group to be in the group? I could have said I was a CAG, SEAL, SAD this whole time and got all the bishes? Damnt!
The Dumb Gun Collector
05-03-17, 18:29
The man will take his lumps. I hope he can come back (with some well- deserved ribbing) and rebuild. He does solid work and ultimately that is what I am interested in.
ramairthree
05-03-17, 19:00
Maybe he was just confused.
I have no idea what a recon marine let alone force recon marine is anymore.
Even in the 80s,
There was ARS at Fort Story,
And InDOC, and the difference between Bn and Company/Force.
There was even a Scout Swimmer Course that always needed help filling slots for,
Because there were not enough reserve recon guys that needed to do that one summer and some other half of ARS reserve the next summer.
But now it's BRC and a pipeline..
And shit,
I know I was in the Army and all,
But think probably I was not Force Recon.
I joke, but other SOF has had growing pains in history. a lot of special forces qualified green berets were not Q Course grads.
I had a 1SG that was in the 82nd for Dom Rep, spent a year in Nam with 1st Cav, then volunteered SF, got sent to Jungle a School in Panama, got to Nam, did a recon course,
And was in xx Special Forces Group (Ranger). Got his tab and orders in the mail without doing the Q Course.
Another was an Infantry Officer, sent to Nam, XO on an ODA, came back to states, was supposed to do Q Course, but they needed a team leader. Spent 6 more years in Nam. About the time he was getting ready to retire got the tab and orders.
In the late 80s to mid 90s it was hard for 11B operators to make promotions with no Infantry time NCOERs.
Not the case with 18 series. So some got credit for phase 1 and 3 for being operators, did the MOS phase 2 portion, and got SF qualified.
But I would rather joke about and pick on the guys eating half the crayons in a box while using the other half to draw dicks on stuff.
sevenhelmet
05-03-17, 19:58
A good instructor needs to be approachable, humble, and credible. For all his positive qualities, Lamb has failed at the last two. It's hard to see past that, especially when it's clear he only set the record straight when actually called out. As a student, I'd be wondering what else he was lying about, even if the learning point was legit. As a student (and not a particularly good shot), how would I know the difference?
Also, why is it necessary for everything to be related somehow to SOF to be considered legitimate? Is the popular perception that they're the only ones who know how to shoot well enough to teach others or pick good products? The "SOF connection" is incredibly overplayed, IMO, and my product needs don't = SOF needs. I have tons of respect for those guys, though, make no mistake.
FlyingHunter
05-03-17, 20:28
Also, why is it necessary for everything to be related somehow to SOF to be considered legitimate? Is the popular perception that they're the only ones who know how to shoot well enough to teach others or pick good products?
Good point. I attended a class from Tiger McKee who has never been LE or Mil. and felt the training was very solid. I learned and improved. In some regards better than many well known instructors I've had the pleasure of taking classes from, included genuine high speed former operators. A good teacher improves a student and their ability to grow.
http://www.shootrite.org
sevenhelmet
05-03-17, 20:41
Good point. I attended a class from Tiger McKee who has never been LE or Mil. and felt the training was very solid. I learned and improved. In some regards better than many well known instructors I've had the pleasure of taking classes from, included genuine high speed former operators. A good teacher improves a student and their ability to grow.
http://www.shootrite.org
I took an LAV class a few months ago. It was awesome, and has completely changed how I spend time and rounds at the range. But while I appreciate LAV's experience in Delta, it isn't what makes him a great instructor. His easygoing but direct and honest approach, coupled with his massive experience instructing is what made it so valuable. He knows what works and what doesn't work with students, and lets you ask him questions about literally anything in between drills, with no judgment or reproach. He points out mistakes publicly, but without shaming students. Honestly, the thought of messing up in front of "the man" was pressure enough for me. Delta made for some good side stories, and likely was the foundation of Larry's shooting experience, but SOF XP isn't required of a good instructor in this (admittedly below average) student's opinion.
I picked the class because LAV is a shooting community legend, and I'd seen enough of his videos to know I'd enjoy his style of instructing. The fact that he had SOF experience was incidental to me, even if it helped jump-start his firearms instruction career. That said, his military experience is absolutely something to be admired, just so there is no misunderstanding.
ramairthree
05-03-17, 21:26
It is market driven. Some E9 OTC / SFARTEC former instructors are really good instructors. Some are assholes that can't teach worth a crap but it's a big class and the lead needed the help and they had the CV.
Students seek former SOF instructors. It somehow vicariously validates them that they had class with an Operator.
Instructors without SOF backgrounds tout on their CVs all the classes they have had from operators.
It's a cycle.
You all had the chance to get the creeds on your CVs.
Coal Dragger
05-04-17, 01:03
But I would rather joke about and pick on the guys eating half the crayons in a box while using the other half to draw dicks on stuff.
Hey man, don't be dissing my art work.
I knew Mike as I was a student of his. I met Mike just as he had left Magpul and started his own training company Stoic Ventures. I'm so conflicted about this situation. I am not prior military and can understand how lying about a .mil career is highly look down upon, but Mike is a very personable guy and well liked by most who met him. I was actually supposed to take a class from him this weekend, but as you can tell, it isn't going to happen.
It seems as Panteo has already removed any videos Mike was in.
Here is a more detailed post from SSD.
http://soldiersystems.net/2017/05/04/make-lamb-lied-about-his-service-for-15-years-now-hes-telling-the-truth/
Also, why is it necessary for everything to be related somehow to SOF to be considered legitimate? Is the popular perception that they're the only ones who know how to shoot well enough to teach others or pick good products? The "SOF connection" is incredibly overplayed, IMO, and my product needs don't = SOF needs. I have tons of respect for those guys, though, make no mistake.
I think post-9/11 the difference is negligible (for former mil instructors). There are a metric shit-ton out there now with a lot of experience. Pre-9/11, DEVGRU and Delta were the only ones doing any real shooting with any regularity so the TTPs we more refined and they had learned a lot of what worked and did not work (to that point).
I agree with the posts that being a fill-in-the-blank does not necessarily make you a good instructor, but the street cred helps. There are far, far more good soldiers, Marines, squids, er, whatever you call Air Force guys (airmen?) that are great "operators" (how I hate that word) but probably crappy instructors.
Same to be said for competitors and LEOs that teach as well. There is no lack of qualified instructors across the continuum of civilian-LE-military, and the resume doesn't necessarily make for good teachers.
Maybe he was just confused.
I have no idea what a recon marine let alone force recon marine is anymore.
Even in the 80s,
There was ARS at Fort Story,
And InDOC, and the difference between Bn and Company/Force.
There was even a Scout Swimmer Course that always needed help filling slots for,
Because there were not enough reserve recon guys that needed to do that one summer and some other half of ARS reserve the next summer.
But now it's BRC and a pipeline....
"Back in the day" ARS was in Virginia and Coronado; now it's just BRC, and it is at Camp Pendleton/Coronado. What makes a Recon guy a Recon guy is completing that course; it is what delivers the 0321 MOS (reconnaissance marine). Corpsmen with Recon must go through it as well, but for them, they do not earn the Navy NEC (NEC=MOS) until they complete a shit-load of other courses as well. There still is not a pipeline....you get out of BRC and attend schools as the billets come up in between training cycles and deployment.
Scout Swimmer is another kettle of fish. All Recon Marines are SS-qualified (Scout Swimmer, not Scout/Sniper); not all SS are Recon guys.
When MARSOC was invented it drew almost the entire nucleus of its initial groups from Recon, and Recon folded. Now Recon is back but restructured. I do not know how Force and Battalion are structured or listed in the TO&E these days because I have been out so long. MARSOC does have a legit pipeline, but as I understand even they squeeze in courses (airborne, dive, etc) when they can after ITC.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-04-17, 08:39
Why does this a-hole get a free pass on stolen valor, when every other a-hole has his life ruined over it? I hope he never trains anyone again. How can you take his word now?
Outlander Systems
05-04-17, 08:51
**** me. I'm agreeing with LSHD... ;)
Seriously. Dude should find a rope and piss up it. There's too many legit assed vetbros that one could spend hard-earned cash with, instead of a ****ing LARPer.
Why does this a-hole get a free pass on stolen valor, when every other a-hole has his life ruined over it? I hope he never trains anyone again. How can you take his word now?
Straight Shooter
05-04-17, 09:00
Im just an everyday dude who is not, nor ever will be, anything special.
However..notwithstanding the fact that some of these guys do have some valid, legit training to give/offer... Ill give my .02 cents.
I have for years now been absoulutely sick & tired of this obsession with these Ninja trainers, as I call them. The bearded, tatted-up, bald look will quaran-damn-tee I wont be going there. ENOUGH ALREADY.
Im just a former Marine, period. Never saw combat thank God...and I don't need or require training from Special Forces/Recon/Green Beret/SEAL/DELTA TEAM 6/8 or 9/ or whatever. Most...MOST others don't either.
Ive thought for years MANY of these guys were full o' shit.
Id look RIDICULOUS at my age & weight trying to be all "geared up" with all kinda shit hanging off me...as if I would ever really need that stuff. And I tell you what a lot of others would too.
Lets just be realistic about yourself, YOUR ABILITIES.."a mans GOT to know his limitations"...and your realistic needs and stop thinking you are missing out by not training with the latest HSLD Ninja.
YOU AINT.
ramairthree
05-04-17, 09:00
My maybe he was just confused was a joke regarding the whole shake up of units.
I would not spend a nickel with the guy.
As to the poster that found him charming,
Yes,
One of the key features of successful bull shitters is being charismatic.
From Travis Haley on FB:
I typically stay out of this shit but since this is near and dear to me because of my background:: Just for the record, Mike was terminated from both Magpul and Magpul Dynamics for his background being in question and his horrible work ethic. He said that he was at 2d Force Recon at the same time as me and I called him on it as well as many others that were stationed there with me at the time. His excuse was that he was never there because he was working for the CIA out of Pristina, Kosovo which is BS because there was no Force guys working for the agency in Pristina at the time from what I was told by the unit. Furthermore, the unit is only 100 force recon marines at that time and everyone knows everyone. He has destroyed many valuable strategic partnerships between companies for talking trash about others versus focusing on himself. As we all know people that focus on drama and negativity have their own insecurities and self worth issues. This info is something that I have known for many years but I personally stay away from the BS which helps us all move forward in a positive direction. Now, we all know KARMA is a bitch and the fact that he wore Wings and a Combat Dive Bubble in uniform as an active duty Marine is the most unprofessional, disgraceful and appalling thing he could do to disrespect men that have bled, sweat, and cried for their Jacks and Paddles and or gave their lives putting foot to ass for our country. Then there is his pathetic "coming out" apology after he has been using this background to make money, off of the very people we serve. I hope the communities, industry companies, and sponsors of him identify this and terminate immediately. Semper Fidelis means something to the few and the proud and means even more to the fewer and prouder.
C4
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-04-17, 10:07
Right on Travis! Straight from the mouth of the real deal.
And there you have it.
And there you have it. Case closed for me.
WickedWillis
05-04-17, 11:15
Haley is someone that I hold in very high regard in the firearms community. If he feels that passionately about an issue, or an individual, you can guarantee he's completely on point.
Haley is someone that I hold in very high regard in the firearms community. If he feels that passionately about an issue, or an individual, you can guarantee he's completely on point.
I feel the same way about Travis.
Its too bad Mike wasn't publicly outed when he was sent packing from Magpul.
RobertTheTexan
05-04-17, 11:35
Wait... you only had to be attached to a group to be in the group? I could have said I was a CAG, SEAL, SAD this whole time and got all the bishes? Damnt!
Idk I already thought you were pretty high speed. You mean I gotta take down all the posters now???
As a separate topic, I find unclaimed valor for more admirable than claimed and legit.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Defaultmp3
05-04-17, 11:47
I feel the same way about Travis.
Its too bad Mike wasn't publicly outed when he was sent packing from Magpul.
This was before my time, but I spoke to Richard about this. Travis hired Mr. Lamb and vouched for him as having worked with him in a military context before. Richard was Bn Recon in Hawaii, so he took Travis’ word for it, since actually serving with someone would theoretically be better vetting than anything.
Richard also recalls Mike only portraying himself as an intel guy that did some three letter agency stuff at the time, but that’s recall from 7-8 years ago, and he didn’t dig because he was vouched for. The company was smaller then, but since my hire in 2012, it’s a very careful and thorough vetting process due to lessons learned on that front. Mr. Lamb was only with Magpul a very short time.Source: http://soldiersystems.net/2017/05/04/make-lamb-lied-about-his-service-for-15-years-now-hes-telling-the-truth/#comment-942057
No one turned a blind eye to anything. As I’ve stated above, Haley vouched for Lamb when he hired him, and from statements that they served together, Richard took it at face value. It was a smaller company then. Mr. Lamb’s departure from the company after a very short period had nothing to do with anyone finding out his real background.
A whole lot better vetting all around would have likely been a good thing at the time.
What I can assure you of, is that now, we go to very great lengths to make sure everyone is who they say they are, that they don’t tell sea stories that never happened, don’t misrepresent the character of their service or awards, don’t claim affiliations with groups they never worked with or for, and that the experience levels they claim are accurate.Source: http://soldiersystems.net/2017/05/04/make-lamb-lied-about-his-service-for-15-years-now-hes-telling-the-truth/#comment-942063
"This was before my time, but I spoke to Richard about this. Travis hired Mr. Lamb and vouched for him as having worked with him in a military context before. "
Think about this. SPQR476 is basing his opinion on something that someone allegedly told him, which someone else allegedly told that person, all before SPQR476 even joined the company.
This is not a personal attack on SPQR476, but that is pretty weak.
Joe Mamma
RobertTheTexan
05-04-17, 12:17
What are you guys make it of this? Another faker? (The poster SPQR476)?
Or is the Travis he's referring to a different Travis than I'm thinking of? How could he vouch for a guy claiming to be in the same unit?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170504/c5d77c5952f5f2c4ad464ab6f358bde3.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
WickedWillis
05-04-17, 12:42
"This was before my time, but I spoke to Richard about this. Travis hired Mr. Lamb and vouched for him as having worked with him in a military context before. "
Think about this. SPQR476 is basing his opinion on something that someone allegedly told him, which someone else allegedly told that person, all before SPQR476 even joined the company.
This is not a personal attack on SPQR476, but that is pretty weak.
Joe Mamma
What are you guys make it of this? Another faker? (The poster SPQR476)?
Or is the Travis he's referring to a different Travis than I'm thinking of? How could he vouch for a guy claiming to be in the same unit?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170504/c5d77c5952f5f2c4ad464ab6f358bde3.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
SPQR476 Is a member here as well, so maybe he will find this thread and answer everyone's questions.
I was an Airwinger, and a paper pushing one at that. I'm still a Marine, and I can only convey that through my professionalism and my follow-through. In having that I can only hope that trust will inevitably be earned. I've never met Mike and I wasn't aware he was misrepresenting the Recon community, never the less, if he took on the title while never having earned it then he inevitably is wrong. Apologizing is a good step in the right direction, but there is a long way to go to earn back trust.
As a petty civilian I feel when someone like Travis H calls you out for stuff like that it's pretty much a done deal.
I understand that people want to train with combat proven instructors and top LEO's and it's sad that good instructors have to lie to get their reputation around.
I miss Corey Jackson for example. I believe he was an intelligent and valuable instructor but got caught up in trying to get his fame for his business.
I look at the top competitors of any of the gun sports and would train with any of them. Can they teach you how to run a gun? Hell yes but they don't have the tactics of survival. So it's a two fold coin where we have space for classes and training where guys don't have to be super soldiers they still have a place IMO just have to be honest about it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
WickedWillis
05-04-17, 13:12
As a petty civilian I feel when someone like Travis H calls you out for stuff like that it's pretty much a done deal.
I understand that people want to train with combat proven instructors and top LEO's and it's sad that good instructors have to lie to get their reputation around.
I miss Corey Jackson for example. I believe he was an intelligent and valuable instructor but got caught up in trying to get his fame for his business.
I look at the top competitors of any of the gun sports and would train with any of them. Can they teach you how to run a gun? Hell yes but they don't have the tactics of survival. So it's a two fold coin where we have space for classes and training where guys don't have to be super soldiers they still have a place IMO just have to be honest about it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The guy was trying so hard to be like Costa and Haley. I get that you don't need to be ex military, or LEO to be a damn good instructor, but the fact you are willing to lie about it to attempt to get more people in your classes and use it to gain a foothold in the industry is bullshit. Corey lied on camera about never saying that he was ex mil, and LEO. That's the difference. He had a chance to come clean, and he lied again. Plus he was super into range theatrics, so there's that.
And I'm a dirty, grimy petty civilian as well.
RobertTheTexan
05-04-17, 13:25
SPQR476 Is a member here as well, so maybe he will find this thread and answer everyone's questions.
I wasn't aware he was a member. I just thought it interesting since the topic also had included Mr. Haley. I didn't read through to the end on that website the Spousal Unit issued a command that threw me off. "Lunch is ready"
Hopefully we'll hear something.
Also I think I must have started my post and missed some comments posted. Because I totally missed Joe's reply and the post he replied to.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hey, Guys, just saw this. Glad to clarify. I'm in the unenviable position of having to speak on things that preceded my tenure here based on recollections from those who were here, but I answer on stuff like this, so here I am--feeling like Sean Spicer talking about stuff from the Reagan administration. I've been very clear to try and state that I am passing on what has been conveyed to me, but the same story has come from multiple folks who were here at the time, otherwise I would feel quite strange posting it indeed.
First, yes...should have done better vetting. Not trying to throw anyone under the bus or deflect that fact from the company. Lots of things could have used better vetting at the time. Lamb was hired by Magpul/Magpul Dynamics. His time here was very, very short. I can't characterize anything else about his time here, good or bad, for HR reasons. No one really recalls claims about being Recon being touted in the office, and being vouched for by another employee was considered good enough. What happened out of earshot of the office could be another thing.
As was conveyed to me, he was brought to the organization by Travis, who vouched for him as a legit Marine having served with him in an intel capacity. Once again, no one recalls any claims of Recon made to Magpul as part of the hiring process, and things were pretty handshake back then, so it admittedly wasn't a thorough vetting process. From what I am told, vetting by "oh yeah, that guy did that, I knew him from XYZ", was about it in those days, especially on some activities. To close the book on the Travis side of it, it was also Travis who moved him along after Mike had shuffled around inside the company. This isn't about Travis or trying to blame anyone. It was that we were generally too trusting, apparently. It would seem odd for a fellow Marine, who had been at least verified as an actual Marine, to misrepresent service (or seemed so at the time) to other Marines, so it was just trusted without enough verification.
The company was a lot smaller then, and everyone was focused on making stuff. I'll hold back on sharing Richard's colorful characterizations of the Chaos of some activities. We're still very lean, but back then it was extremely lean. No real HR, and everyone was focused on getting things done.
Those days and those practices resulted in lessons learned through things you have seen publicly and things behind the scenes, although the stolen valor claims by Mike Lamb were a surprise. Richard and the others still here had no idea. In any case, I can assure you that the company implemented pretty draconian background vetting after that time period--for other reasons. A PI dug through my whole resume and everything I said I ever did before I was signed on. SF-86/SSBI style. We are quite strict about that today.
Perhaps it was a naivety of thinking that stolen valor was something that was only perpetrated by those who had never served, or that especially someone who had stood in the same yellow footprints would be bound by certain codes. But, whatever the case was, it's all something that Mike is going to have to figure out how to live with.
RobertTheTexan
05-04-17, 14:56
I appreciate you being straight forward and also for not throwing people under the bus. That says about all I need to hear.
Besides I'd rather talk about my weird rear sights than I would Mike Lamb.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What are you guys make it of this? Another faker? (The poster SPQR476)?
Or is the Travis he's referring to a different Travis than I'm thinking of? How could he vouch for a guy claiming to be in the same unit?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170504/c5d77c5952f5f2c4ad464ab6f358bde3.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Duane is probably one of the most valuable and upstanding members on this board. He's probably also the most active poster of any large firearms related manufacturer here.
RobertTheTexan
05-04-17, 16:52
Duane is probably one of the most valuable and upstanding members on this board. He's probably also the most active poster of any large firearms related manufacturer here.
WickedWillis told me he was a member here. I grabbed that post because it brought to light a different angle than we had been reading and I wanted others thoughts about it. My comments weren't accusatory, just more or less asking if it was legitimate. And it was. In a big way.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Don Robison
05-04-17, 18:07
Looks like Mike did not claim anything, but people mistakenly assumed he was a recon marine and he decided to run with it for 15 years. Not good.
Up until yesterday his bio on his website said he was a Force Recon Marine. There was no mistake on his part other than claiming something he wasn't.
SeriousStudent
05-04-17, 19:04
Duane, thank you for taking the time to come here and share that information.
I cannot keep track of every former "operator" who has a YouTube Channel, website or sells training at some "compound". That kind of knowledge seems to be in high demand, and I guess some shrewd operator can make some bucks off of it, whether they're legit or not. Some of my retired Army buddies teach ROTC at the college level, or JROTC in High Schools. They still get to wear the uniform as part of their new career. Some have totally boring management jobs or government Agency work.
Have any of you taken into consideration that these SOCOM, Delta Force, Marine Recon types appear on the scene because there are so many people willing to fork over hard earned money to perhaps experience vicariously some of their exciting lifestyle, and learn from "the best"? If nobody was buying, these frauds would dry up and blow away.
For me, the only "tactical" training I have ever considered after retirement was some Black Rifle training at Gunsite in Arizona.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-04-17, 21:37
http://www.breachbangclear.com/mike-lamb-comes-clean/
Disappointing and surprising.
Looks like Mike did not claim anything, but people mistakenly assumed he was a recon marine and he decided to run with it for 15 years. Not good.
He's pictured at this http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=71825 link wearing a scuba bubble and jump wings, both gold, in civvies. He's lying about his lie about not correcting people. This dude is GRADE-A scum.
Those days and those practices resulted in lessons learned.
Can't ask for anything more. Individuals and companies make mistakes. That they/we learn from them and make the needed changes is what matters ultimately. Thanx for stopping by and giving the 411 from your POV.
Sounds like inconsistent information from Travis Haley? I'm honestly not sure what to think of that guy anyway.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Eurodriver
05-05-17, 18:11
He's pictured at this http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=71825 link wearing a scuba bubble and jump wings, both gold, in civvies. He's lying about his lie about not correcting people. This dude is GRADE-A scum.
Wow!!
Why do I get the feeling that if he just said from day one
"Hey guys, I was in the Marines and kind of a POG but I went to school and applied myself and learned how to be an instructor and continually try to better myself"
that his card wouldnt be getting pulled right now?
To me, someone who got into the Marines, did their job peeling potatos or stealing power bars, getting an honorable and living life has already accomplished quite a bit.
Why play Rambo? Why?!
I freely admit that I am a bum who wasted my best years on bullshit. And I go to bed each day with a clear conscience as a result
As for this Mike Lamb guy? Never heard of him. For a second, I was scared we were talking about KYLE Lamb.
I had the same thought when I saw Lamb. It's the only reason I read the post. I don't know who this Marine is either.
MountainRaven
05-05-17, 20:15
Sounds like inconsistent information from Travis Haley? I'm honestly not sure what to think of that guy anyway.
What's inconsistent?
That what Travis Haley says doesn't sync up with what somebody who hadn't even started their job there was told long after both had departed?
If that's it, then the explanation for the inconsistency is right there, plain as day.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-05-17, 21:07
What's inconsistent?
That what Travis Haley says doesn't sync up with what somebody who hadn't even started their job there was told long after both had departed?
If that's it, then the explanation for the inconsistency is right there, plain as day.
Agreed
What's inconsistent?
That what Travis Haley says doesn't sync up with what somebody who hadn't even started their job there was told long after both had departed?
If that's it, then the explanation for the inconsistency is right there, plain as day.
On another site there was discussion on the Lamb issue. Someone mentioned that Travis Haley had parted company with Panteo Productions over credibility issues.
Not knowing much about Haley other than video snippets and breathless email announcement that want to give me the opportunity to 'Train with former Force Recon Marine Travis Haley' I decided to look into it.
I found this pretty quickly: http://panteao.com/uncut-travis-haley-nd-video/
I got curious about the differences that Panteo and Haley apparently had, so I dug a little further and found this on another thread:
"When Travis Haley publicly stated that the Magpul videos he previously “created, produced, and directed” should not be purchased from Magpul because they are now 7 years old, that did not sit well with us. The videos Panteao Productions filmed with Travis were released in 2011. At what point would those videos be deemed outdated? Should every instructional video come with an expiration date? We don’t think so.
It’s the position of Panteao Productions that training videos do not come with an expiration date. While doctrine may change over the years and techniques may fall out of fashion, it’s still important to document an instructor’s course and training techniques. It’s a piece of history, giving us insight to what was taught at the time and why. In addition, the fundamentals are always the core of any firearms instruction. Unless humans sprout a third arm or leg, the fundamentals will remain the same.
The decision was made to discontinue the Travis Haley videos and remove them from the Panteao website. They were pulled on January 1, 2015. We wish Travis well in his ventures."
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?167542-Haley-s-Videos-no-loner-available-on-Panteao
Since the first Panteo letter linked aluded to Haley trying to claim the filmed ND was intentional and not an ND at all, I looked further and found this. Watch the video areound 00:19 for a screenshot of a FB post made by someone apparently associated with Haley:
https://www.facebook.com/460555350713570/videos/669541389814964/
That apparently lead to this: http://soldiersystems.net/2016/02/12/travis-haley-responds-to-ndgate/ Wherein Haley does a credible (IMO) job of walking back the screen shot.
Now you could say this is industry backbiting, and I can easily believe it to be so.
But, I will say this about this: That what Travis Haley says doesn't sync up with what somebody who hadn't even started their job there was told long after both had departed?
SPQR476/Duane Liptak clearly identifies himself, by name, in every post, and, from what I've read, is pretty straight and above-board in what he posts.
Draw your own conclusions about SPQR476's credibility, I have.
Per the Haley ND......
they act like he was like the DEA guy who shot himself.
He was on a range, gun pointed in safe direction, nobody flagged, and even saying as he was doing it that this Soviet technique was lame, not good, and dangerous.
His only 'fault' was no ear pro but hey, we all gotta go deaf one day.
I think they tried to make that out worse than it was.
Haley is legit and has famous video of him tagging Maadi Army.
Mike Lamb is wearing insignia he did not earn and not on accident
Sadly, his video on Horus reticles was good and explained it to me barney style and got me wanting one for a rifle.
He can explain things just fine. He didnt need to say he was in Force Recon. I imagine that's like the Marine version of Rangers or SEALs. Not that many around.
I got a buddy who is a Marine. He said that the Marines are so small as a branch that they can literally link themselves from PL all the way to POTUS in their Chain of Command. And name off every person in that chain.
So......yeah
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-05-17, 21:59
I've been following Travis for years. Despite the Magpul Dynamics cult of personality that developed around him and Costa, I have Travis to be a man of integrity and someone who has been there & done that.
Was the ND situation handled well? No. Does it even merit being brought up in a thread about a stolen valor loser? No.
You guys are missing the point. Fjahll#$%^ (sp?) and LSHD called SPQR476's credibility into question. Here's his bio from Magpul:
Magpul Dynamics is pleased to welcome Duane Liptak Jr., formerly a Major in the USMC, as its new Director. A decorated combat veteran with experience in Tactical Aviation and Special Operations, Duane brings vast knowledge of the shooting industry and the military, as well as experience developing, managing, and executing training programs.
Duane’s military achievements include stints as a Squadron XO, FAC(A) (Forward Air Controller-Airborne) Instructor, Pilot and Flight Lead for a USMC F/A-18D Squadron deployed to Iraq, and Plank Owner in Marine Special Operations Command, where he stood up the first operational Marine Special Operations Company as Air Officer, Operations Officer, Team FAC, and Weapons, Lasers, Night Vision, and Communications subject matter expert.
So what I got to ask is this: So who punches a guy when he's down. His (Lamb's) credibility is ruined. Why the need to unburden yourself and track shit up and down his back? Haley says he called him out about it, why did he let it drop? Why bring it up now?
The whole thing stinks to high heaven. And then to top it off, we make unflattering comments about a fellow forum member.
Let's just give it a rest.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-05-17, 22:58
You guys are missing the point. Fjahll#$%^ (sp?) and LSHD called SPQR476's credibility into question. Here's his bio from Magpul:
Magpul Dynamics is pleased to welcome Duane Liptak Jr., formerly a Major in the USMC, as its new Director. A decorated combat veteran with experience in Tactical Aviation and Special Operations, Duane brings vast knowledge of the shooting industry and the military, as well as experience developing, managing, and executing training programs.
Duane’s military achievements include stints as a Squadron XO, FAC(A) (Forward Air Controller-Airborne) Instructor, Pilot and Flight Lead for a USMC F/A-18D Squadron deployed to Iraq, and Plank Owner in Marine Special Operations Command, where he stood up the first operational Marine Special Operations Company as Air Officer, Operations Officer, Team FAC, and Weapons, Lasers, Night Vision, and Communications subject matter expert.
So what I got to ask is this: So who punches a guy when he's down. His (Lamb's) credibility is ruined. Why the need to unburden yourself and track shit up and down his back? Haley says he called him out about it, why did he let it drop? Why bring it up now?
The whole thing stinks to high heaven. And then to top it off, we make unflattering comments about a fellow forum member.
Let's just give it a rest.
Woah woah woah, let's back the credibility bus up here. I'm not calling into question the credibility, or attacking it/ of Duane-SPQR. He sounds like he had a hell of a career, and my only beef with the man is he won't release AK74 mags!
,
I agreed with Fjfallrijnahdgbsjendb (what the hell does your screen name even translate to?!) on the grounds that Duane was not with the company at that point, and Travis was. As I have no reason to doubt Travis, I'll give his first hand account the most weight. Who knows, and does it really even matter?
I see this thread being locked soon. I just want to say that the only person I do not believe in this thread is Mike Lamb. Everyone else...you guys are cool in my book.
I agreed with Fjfallrijnahdgbsjendb (what the hell does your screen name even translate to?!)Everyone else...you guys are cool in my book.
I looked it up, it means 'Green Pointy Hat Wearing Scandinavian Dude.' (Actually it means Mountain Raven in Icelandic)
I got to admit Haley's post pissed me off and I don't even know who Michael Lamb is.
This is from another site, but I thought it was classy:
Before we head down the road of other forums, let me just drop this here, and then we can continue with whatever folks feel is necessary to make themselves feel better.
First..Mike is a friend. Is he a dumb ass on this, yes. Did he screw up, yes. Will this likely ruin his world, yes. Did he flush some of that honor a man gifts himself down the toilet, yes. Moving on........
Sadly, the industry lost a solid instructor because of a self inflicted, non recoverable injury. Meanwhile, some clown who spent thirteen seconds in the right place on the ninja warrior alphabet of awesome who is a terrible instructor, or a self promotion expert that is very prevalent in this ****ed up "industry" will continue screwing up shooters who are actually ponying up funds and time to train.
Mike's lies destroyed not only his reputation, but a solid curriculum in a world of crap curriculum.
Am I horribly disappointed in his actions, absolutely, and one of my favorite phrases I tell my kid daily, and I used to tell crooks.....with choices comes consequences. Mike is done as a trainer. Mike will need to find some other means to support his family. That is a consequence to his choices.......At this point, Mike joins a long list of my flawed friends. Hopefully, he will do the time that goes with the crime like a man. It would be nice to have perfect friends, but I haven't found one yet.
Two points....First: once Mike started putting it on his website, and making claims, it was not a misunderstanding, it was a lie. He published that lie and owns all that comes with it...period.
When this is over, I may despise Mike, or we may remain friendly. Depends on Mike. I just wish I knew more perfect people who have never lied, exaggerated, or acted like a complete ass at some point in life.
ramairthree
05-06-17, 01:03
Prior to the gold bubble,
There were plenty of marines who found a way to knock out the navy basic scuba course, jump school, and manage five more jumps for gold wings.
The bubble and wings made them look Recon.
I don't know how slotting works for the Combat Diver Course, but it is not impossible a guy could get a dive bubble and gold wings and not be recon.
I know of cadets that have knocked out combats Diver and jump school.
I am not saying the dude earned the.
I am saying I have seen guys with a bubble and gold wings that were not recon marines.
Coal Dragger
05-06-17, 01:09
Before this gets locked down I'll offer instruction services for USMC grunt style porta-shitter art.
I was just a run of the mill, disgruntled 0351 (anti-tank assault man) terminal lance. I did one tour in 2004 in Iraq. I saw a little bit of combat. For all my lack of super high speed "operator" experience, I was instead able to perfect the drawing of penises and other profane art on the insides of porta-shitters during my ample spare time when not involved in some pointless foot or vehicle patrol in the shitty area around Al Taqqadum/Habbaniyah. I can also give credible instruction in the inscribing of "Wagner loves the cock" on a variety of surfaces.
Who knows, some day your life might depend on the ability to quickly draw a large fire spitting penis on the inside surfaces of a 140 degree porta-shitter that hasn't been serviced in months.
daddyusmaximus
05-06-17, 01:29
Glad he owned up to it, but letting it go on for so long will hurt his credibility.
SPQR476/Duane Liptak clearly identifies himself, by name, in every post, and, from what I've read, is pretty straight and above-board in what he posts.
Draw your own conclusions about SPQR476's credibility, I have.
Duane/SPQR476 is basing his statements on what he was told by someone else (Richard from Magpul) who has the biggest incentive to misrepresent the facts, about a conversation that person allegedly had with another person (Travis Haley), and the conversation took place years ago.
I absolutely give Travis's statements more weight.
As for Mike Lamb coming clean and owning up to this, he got caught and was trying to minimize the damage to himself. There is nothing honorable about what he did in any of this. It's actually pretty pathetic. I'm not sure why I even care enough to post about this.
Joe Mamma
Before this gets locked down I'll offer instruction services for USMC grunt style porta-shitter art.
I was just a run of the mill, disgruntled 0351 (anti-tank assault man) terminal lance. I did one tour in 2004 in Iraq. I saw a little bit of combat. For all my lack of super high speed "operator" experience, I was instead able to perfect the drawing of penises and other profane art on the insides of porta-shitters during my ample spare time when not involved in some pointless foot or vehicle patrol in the shitty area around Al Taqqadum/Habbaniyah. I can also give credible instruction in the inscribing of "Wagner loves the cock" on a variety of surfaces.
Who knows, some day your life might depend on the ability to quickly draw a large fire spitting penis on the inside surfaces of a 140 degree porta-shitter that hasn't been serviced in months.
Don't sell yourself short. Your's was one of the greatest wartime sacrifices. It ranks right up there with porta-shitter Chuck Norris musings. If it was up to me you would receive a Brown Star.
Haley wants to join the dogpile now? I don't trust him one bit. His business dealings in the past have been less than honest and he wants to pile on now, after he's claimed to have known for years? One story about him being vouched for by Haley? Yeah....some of this doesn't add up. I'm not making excuses for Mike Lamb, as a matter of fact, I never liked the guy from what I'd seen in videos, but basing anything off Haley's word doesn't mean much.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I've been following Travis for years. Despite the Magpul Dynamics cult of personality that developed around him and Costa, I have Travis to be a man of integrity and someone who has been there & done that.
Was the ND situation handled well? No. Does it even merit being brought up in a thread about a stolen valor loser? No.
That's a good video. It's a training scar and we can all learn from it.
Prior to the gold bubble,
There were plenty of marines who found a way to knock out the navy basic scuba course, jump school, and manage five more jumps for gold wings.
The bubble and wings made them look Recon.
I don't know how slotting works for the Combat Diver Course, but it is not impossible a guy could get a dive bubble and gold wings and not be recon.
I know of cadets that have knocked out combats Diver and jump school.
I am not saying the dude earned the.
I am saying I have seen guys with a bubble and gold wings that were not recon marines.
Interesting so Recon now wears a gold dive helmet? I didn't know that.
https://afterdeadline.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/when-every-letter-counts/comment-page-3/?_r=0
Interesting so Recon now wears a gold dive helmet? I didn't know that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps_Combatant_Diver_Course
Honestly didn't know who Mike L was, so no bubbles burst for me. These types of things inevitably go down the he said/she said route and get ugly from there. My take is I was not there, am thus forced to take others word for it, and my personal interests tend to end there. He was busted, he did damage control, he disappointed some people out there, and the rest not my business or concern at that point.
Speaking of stolen valor, we must get 5 people a day at the UDT-SEAL Museum telling us their father, uncle, buddy, etc was a SEAL or UDT. We have the books for every single class, all names, graduation pics, etc and at least 3 out of the 5 are not there.
The person often gets upset and tells us our records must be off, etc cuz they knew uncle Jack was a bad ass SEAL in Nam, etc. Records of the Museum are 100%, period.
One chick got so upset she called her dad right in front of us on speaker phone with a "I'll show you!" look on her face.
"Dad, we are here at the SEAL Museum and we can't find your name at all"
Long pause
"Um, err, um, I'm not at liberty to discuss that"
Line goes dead. No matter what secret squirrel unit they may have gone to post BUDs, the records prior to that are 100%, right down to team #1 UDT.
I felt bad for her. Can you imagine what a dirt bag you have to be to allow your kid, or nephew, or close buddy, etc think all their lives you were totally something you were not or ever did?
MountainRaven
05-06-17, 22:43
I looked it up, it means 'Green Pointy Hat Wearing Scandinavian Dude.' (Actually it means Mountain Raven in Icelandic)
And now I need to buy a pointy green hat. Thanks. I've been thinking about having my user name changed to something English, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm lazy and I'm not sure how I'd request that.
Seriously, though, I'm with LSHD: I'm not questioning anybody's credibility. I'm just saying, if you've ever played telephone, you should understand why what Haley and Liptak have said don't mesh 100%.
Haley wants to join the dogpile now? I don't trust him one bit. His business dealings in the past have been less than honest and he wants to pile on now, after he's claimed to have known for years? One story about him being vouched for by Haley? Yeah....some of this doesn't add up. I'm not making excuses for Mike Lamb, as a matter of fact, I never liked the guy from what I'd seen in videos, but basing anything off Haley's word doesn't mean much.
What happened?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ is this you shrugging your shoulders with a what can I say look? As you might surmise, while I'm not a luddite, I'm not far evolved. WAy cooler than 'WTF'
MountainRaven
05-06-17, 23:35
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ is this you shrugging your shoulders with a what can I say look? As you might surmise, while I'm not a luddite, I'm not far evolved. WAy cooler than 'WTF'
Affirm.
https://19818-presscdn-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/440/f0/skitched-20160509-160456.jpg
SWATcop556
05-07-17, 23:56
I've been fortunate enough to have trained with some amazing instructors in my career. Some are current HSLD types and others are former HSLD types. Everyone brings something to the table. That being said we also need to remember who the HSLD types go to for their weapons training. A lot of them go to the civilian side. I don't understand the hero worship of the .mil/LE side of the training industry. Some of the best training I've received on weapons manipulations has been from the civilian side of the house. Enjoy learning instead of building your "who's who" list of HSLD instructors you've rubbed elbows with.
RE: Mike Lamb I fully believe he knew it was a lie and he chose to live it. Regardless of who started it, he chose to live it. That's something he'll have to live with now. His credibility and integrity are shot. It's like virginity, you can only lose it once.
ramairthree
05-08-17, 00:28
I've been fortunate enough to have trained with some amazing instructors in my career. Some are current HSLD types and others are former HSLD types. Everyone brings something to the table. That being said we also need to remember who the HSLD types go to for their weapons training. A lot of them go to the civilian side. I don't understand the hero worship of the .mil/LE side of the training industry. Some of the best training I've received on weapons manipulations has been from the civilian side of the house. Enjoy learning instead of building your "who's who" list of HSLD instructors you've rubbed elbows with.
RE: Mike Lamb I fully believe he knew it was a lie and he chose to live it. Regardless of who started it, he chose to live it. That's something he'll have to live with now. His credibility and integrity are shot. It's like virginity, you can only lose it once.
I had some great instruction from a fantastic USPSA/IDPA GM that was about 5'5" tall, pear shaped, with no cool tabs or mil schools. He was a DA/SA artists and a good dude and very likable.
However, there is no shaking the fact that shooting schools for many people are like fantasy camps. The guy I mention above would simply not fit the bill for their stories of who they trained with or scratch the fantasy camp itch.
What happened?
I have talked with a couple industry people who have had sour business dealings with Travis Haley. I know another member here has as well as we talked about it one night.
Whether those bad relations were Travis' fault or not who knows. Ive only heard one side of the story (and not specifics) and obviously their side is going to be biased. That being said there definitely are some guys out there who are not Travis Haley fans.
Dist. Expert 26
05-08-17, 01:05
I have talked with a couple industry people who have had sour business dealings with Travis Haley. I know another member here has as well as we talked about it one night.
Whether those bad relations were Travis' fault or not who knows. Ive only heard one side of the story (and not specifics) and obviously their side is going to be biased. That being said there definitely are some guys out there who are not Travis Haley fans.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find any sort of public figure who hasn't pissed someone off along the way.
Prior to the gold bubble,
There were plenty of marines who found a way to knock out the navy basic scuba course, jump school, and manage five more jumps for gold wings.
The bubble and wings made them look Recon.
I don't know how slotting works for the Combat Diver Course, but it is not impossible a guy could get a dive bubble and gold wings and not be recon.
I know of cadets that have knocked out combats Diver and jump school.
I am not saying the dude earned the.
I am saying I have seen guys with a bubble and gold wings that were not recon marines.
You beat me to it. I know of loggies with the Combat Divers Qualification Course. 5-10 USMA cadets went each year. Same for Sapper, etc.
Folks probably should not read too much into his gold badges, and it appears he was in a Radio Recon BN
From "this ain't hell": IntelPog*says: May 3, 2017 at 4:49 pm
I served with Lamb at the NSA, Company B The, MARSPT. The wings are legit (Radio Recon) No idea about the bubble. It’s rare in the Radio Recon field, but it happens.
He was enlisted but prior to that he went to Ohio State. Then got his commision. He did deploy from Ft. Meade a few times, Kosovo was one of them and so was Saudi.
This sucks because when we were stationed together he was one of the most respected guys in our unit. Great NCO, PT stud and smart as a whip. Cared about other Marines like a good NCO. One of the physically toughest Marines I ever served with.
I don't know Jack about marine badges and schools, but just based on some curiosity did some reading.
What I found tells me that even Marines don't agree/understand who can wear gold dive bubbles or not. Apparently there was a window that scuba certs (silver bubble) could do some training and qualify for the gold. And that did not involve the current school, and was more broadly available than it is now. Literally dozens of debates regarding "saw X wearing gold bubble, no way he qualified" "yes he is, he went in 2002 when it was different"
Gold wings even easier, just 5 jumps past jump school. I know boot LTs in the Army hitting 10 before they report to their unit. My son will hit 12 less than 12 mths in his unit, and that does not count 3-4 help jumps. (They don't count toward JumpMaster)
Not to defend Lamb, don't know him, don't care.
But looks like he screwed up by allowing (or encouraging) Radio Recon to assumed to be Force Recon.
Both bad and stupid, appears to me they ultimately get caught. On the army side, every RS grad, 75th member, etc can be validated (or not) very easily.
I've been fortunate enough to have trained with some amazing instructors in my career. Some are current HSLD types and others are former HSLD types. Everyone brings something to the table. That being said we also need to remember who the HSLD types go to for their weapons training. A lot of them go to the civilian side. I don't understand the hero worship of the .mil/LE side of the training industry. Some of the best training I've received on weapons manipulations has been from the civilian side of the house. Enjoy learning instead of building your "who's who" list of HSLD instructors you've rubbed elbows with.
RE: Mike Lamb I fully believe he knew it was a lie and he chose to live it. Regardless of who started it, he chose to live it. That's something he'll have to live with now. His credibility and integrity are shot. It's like virginity, you can only lose it once.
I agree with this. Larry Vickers, for example, is very up front about learning from Rob Leatham. And LAV is obviously one of the premiere trainers.
I've seen a video by Pat Mac where he states he had a problem with some area of pistol shooting, and he went to a competitive shooter friend (unnamed) for help lining it out. Again, PM is a premiere trainer.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Difference between someone and lots of people. And the matter that one does it is also important.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What I found tells me that even Marines don't agree/understand who can wear gold dive bubbles or not. Apparently there was a window that scuba certs (silver bubble) could do some training and qualify for the gold. And that did not involve the current school, and was more broadly available than it is now. Literally dozens of debates regarding "saw X wearing gold bubble, no way he qualified" "yes he is, he went in 2002 when it was different"
Yes. Once upon a time, there were several dive schools (SCUBA), almost all them Navy. All you had to do was go through one and get the bubble (silver badge). After, there was follow-on training for "real" combat diver training; i.e., underwater nav, rebreather, etc. There was no gold badge. Then, they created the one school in Florida, and it was still the silver badge. After some time they restructured the school and introduced the gold combat diver bubble. There wasn't any good way to ascertain who was for-reals combat diver or not. Now, everyone has to go through the one schoolhouse, in Florida. So the day is coming in the not too-distant future where everyone will have the gold combat diver bubble, and will be combat diver qualified.
Prior to the gold bubble,
There were plenty of marines who found a way to knock out the navy basic scuba course, jump school, and manage five more jumps for gold wings.
The bubble and wings made them look Recon.
I don't know how slotting works for the Combat Diver Course, but it is not impossible a guy could get a dive bubble and gold wings and not be recon.
I know of cadets that have knocked out combats Diver and jump school.
I am not saying the dude earned the.
I am saying I have seen guys with a bubble and gold wings that were not recon marines.
Radio Recon was no joke. The standards were as tough as any other recon.
As for the bubble and wings, yes, there are other billets and units where one could have both but have never been a Recon guy. ANGLICO off the top of my head. They are all airborne qualified; some secured billets to SCUBA school, but SCUBA was not a ANGLICO skill set.
I saw several references indicating that one period in early 2000s you only had to certify on rebreather and gases to qualify for the gold bubble if you had been to XYZ school (silver bubble). And did not require a diver billet to go.
At any rate, he admitted to not being Force Recon, that's huge. Some of his other bio items are not reasonable if he truly was in Radio Recon.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
I saw several references indicating that one period in early 2000s you only had to certify on rebreather and gases to qualify for the gold bubble if you had been to XYZ school (silver bubble). And did not require a diver billet to go.
At any rate, he admitted to not being Force Recon, that's huge. Some of his other bio items are not reasonable if he truly was in Radio Recon.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Radio Recon was a weird group. Half hoorah, half radio nerd. I don't know much about them or where they have been.
I would find it odd that you did not have to be in a DV billet to cert in rebreather; the opportunities to do so were few and far between and limited to those who 'needed' the transition for the MOS. Of course, a lot of what they did in between the pre-Det 1 iteration of Recon/FR, the invention of MARSOC, and the rebuild of Recon/FR still stymies me. My time around those units is pretty dated now and well before MARSOC and the reinvention of Recon/FR, and from a corpsman-centric perspective, so I didn't get into all the Marine regs about who could wear what.
I will say the Marines as an organization are a bunch of cheap bastards and I would imagine they would have a high degree of scrutiny of who could qualify for what.
As for Lamb, he clearly isn't what he claimed, and for the fuzziness in his resume' and lies of omission, his career will pay the price.
Dist. Expert 26
05-08-17, 08:05
On the topic of gold wings, the Recon guys I knew and talked to on deployment (including one I went to high school with...small world) told me that one had to attend military freefall school to get them.
I think this is pretty common. So common, that I can think of at least 10 different instructors that have either intentionally or accidentally misled their students. How does it happen? One way is when a student makes the assumption that an instructor was in a certain group (like Force Recon), asks a question about said group and the instructor never corrects the student. Then it spreads to the net. The next way is if said instructor was attached to said group, but as a support element. The instructor leaves the part out that he was an "intel/comms/etc" guy assigned to the group.
For instance, Naval Cryptologists (which is what I was) are assigned to SEAL teams. So in my BIO, it "could" say that my last command was DEVGRU. What would the assumption be???
C4
People make assumptions and a good man does not hesitate to clear the air. At times a student will make an assumption after they observe you are strack, scarred up, in good physical condition and shoot well when demonstrating shooting techniques. Stop the class, clear the air, then move on.
I have no use for anyone who allows a false presumption to go uncorrected to stroke their ego. They are worthless.
Gold wings even easier, just 5 jumps past jump school. I know boot LTs in the Army hitting 10 before they report to their unit. My son will hit 12 less than 12 mths in his unit, and that does not count 3-4 help jumps. (They don't count toward JumpMaster)
Using the term jumpmaster is not really the way to describe the Army system of parachutist qualifications.
Basic/Novice - airborne course graduate with 5 quallifying jumps;
Senior - 30 jumps, jumpmaster course graduate, 15 CE jumps, 2 night jumps (one as JM) and 2 mass tacs;
Master - 65 jumps, jumpmaster course graduate, 25 CE, 5 night (one as JM) and 5 mass tacs.
So it is true that number of jumps counts toward jumpmaster. However the real hurdles are graduating JM, and the mix of jumps.
I was on jump status continually for about 12 years in the reserve, I graduated the JM course with less than 30 jumps, and didn't get to pin on my senior wings until I hit the qualifying jumps. I have well more than the number and types of jumps required for master, except I am minus two mass tacs. Mass tacs are pretty hard to come by when you are a PSG of a stand alone Pfdr Plt in the Armey Reserve. Such is life.
Using the term jumpmaster is not really the way to describe the Army system of parachutist qualifications.
I believe he means the minimum jumps required to attend Jumpmaster School, not the awarding of senior/master wings. Not sure how it used to be, but there's a minimum number of high performance aircraft jumps required to attend JM now. Not trying to insult your intelligence if I misunderstood your post.
pinzgauer; your son will have fun running through JMPI circles in school and subsequently busting knuckles down on Green Ramp. I'm barely out and I'm jealous of the good times he'll have. It's a shame he's an Officer, though. ;)
Why does everyone has to be a ninja warrior?
I proudly did 72 series and 25 series for many years in the army reserves..I worked with many units with some giving me special kudos that I can say I was this and that..but I'll never do that..
Never will...
Be proud you served and be happy and humble with it.
I have detachment unit patches given to me and I've been written up helping them but please..
Never gonna go around saying I'm some 18 series special snowflake..
Never.
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
Using the term jumpmaster is not really the way to describe the Army system of parachutist qualifications.
Basic/Novice - airborne course graduate with 5 quallifying jumps;
Senior - 30 jumps, jumpmaster course graduate, 15 CE jumps, 2 night jumps (one as JM) and 2 mass tacs;
Master - 65 jumps, jumpmaster course graduate, 25 CE, 5 night (one as JM) and 5 mass tacs.
So it is true that number of jumps counts toward jumpmaster. However the real hurdles are graduating JM, and the mix of jumps.
I was on jump status continually for about 12 years in the reserve, I graduated the JM course with less than 30 jumps, and didn't get to pin on my senior wings until I hit the qualifying jumps. I have well more than the number and types of jumps required for master, except I am minus two mass tacs. Mass tacs are pretty hard to come by when you are a PSG of a stand alone Pfdr Plt in the Armey Reserve. Such is life.
That's quite the experience!
I believe he means the minimum jumps required to attend Jumpmaster School, not the awarding of senior/master wings. Not sure how it used to be, but there's a minimum number of high performance aircraft jumps required to attend JM now. Not trying to insult your intelligence if I misunderstood your post.
pinzgauer; your son will have fun running through JMPI circles in school and subsequently busting knuckles down on Green Ramp. I'm barely out and I'm jealous of the good times he'll have. It's a shame he's an Officer, though. ;)
Thanks guys. Even as just a civvy dad, I've become quite familiar with the qualifications, timing, etc.
In my son's unit it's an expectation that every line IN LT obtain their Jumpmaster qualification before they move on to their broadening assignment. In an active unit it's a critical qualification, along with Pathfinder. The gate is normally time in billet (they get enough jumps without really trying), and the expectation is that if sent to JM you *will* pass. One CPT recently did not pass, and did not fare well.
Accordingly, my LT will be sent to JM the first available slot between deployments/standby. It's not something they relish, as the responsibility grows once rated.
He'll deal with JM. Made it through RS, RSLC, AASLT, etc. They end up pretty motivated to pass JM as it is a rating they will for sure use.
Pathfinder is for some reason is much harder to get slots for, but is also needed. It's allocated out more based on need/seniority.
The Senior Parachutist is jokingly referred to as an age/longevity award, as if you stay in unit long enough you will get it. :-) But I'm sure every one who has one thinks differently!
The issue lately is helo jumps are being used more often due to expense/location. Yet do not count toward JM pre-reqs. (Do they count for Senior/Master?)
Back to the Marine Gold wings, was surprised to see it was just 5 jumps of various types, or one combat jump of any type. No Halo required in the references I saw.
Pathfinder is for some reason is much harder to get slots for, but is also needed. It's allocated out more based on need/seniority. The Senior Parachutist is jokingly referred to as an age/longevity award
The issue lately is helo jumps are being used more often due to expense/location. Yet do not count toward JM pre-reqs. (Do they count for Senior/Master?)
He'll definitely have the chance to go to PF after getting senior rated. That was basically automatic so you could be your unit's new go-to "It's a Sunday, you're on DZSO" bitch. Your son sounds squared the **** away, hopefully he gets a cool job like Scout PL or S-3 Air before he leaves.
Rotor wing do not count for anything except pay. There were MANY times before I ETS'd we had to have x3's strap hang on Chinook or Black Hawk jumps just to get current. It was so bad getting a jump after my last deployment, a lot of guys had to go on Rule 4 to keep from paying back almost a year's worth of jump pay.
Back to the Marine Gold wings, was surprised to see it was just 5 jumps of various types, or one combat jump of any type. No Halo required in the references I saw.
Per MCO 3120.11 and MILPERSMAN 1220-030, 5 jumps beyond the 5 at airborne school and be on jump status.
How about the keeping the focus on the topic.
I believe he means the minimum jumps required to attend Jumpmaster School, not the awarding of senior/master wings. Not sure how it used to be, but there's a minimum number of high performance aircraft jumps required to attend JM now. Not trying to insult your intelligence if I misunderstood your post.
No problem, not at all.
Is the number of high performance jumps a division thing, or is it an AR? I retired in 2001, so things change.
I went through jump school in 1980(?) at Missoula MT at the US forest Service Ariel Fire Depot with 19th SFG at a course put on by 7th SFG. Did the JM course at Fort McCoy, WI, again with 7th Group. Only airborne course I did at Ft Benning was Pathfinder. I have like five T-10 jumps, everything else military was Dash-1's.
So I know my experiences are much different than someone who served in Division. The last time I 'needed' to JMPI quickly was at the JM course.
Cool thing about a small 22 man reserve platoon was that we had a full timer that would work his ass of to get us JAATT missions and jumps out of differing aircraft.
ETA: Sorry, hadn't read to end of thread when I posted this.
leibermuster
05-08-17, 17:58
Mike lamb, Corey & Erika and the rest of these people can go F### themselves. I came across a guy like this pretending to be a Seal 5 or 6 years back ago, they make money off it and prey off people I was able to out him 1 month or so after meeting him. In all fairness when he first dropped the Seal line I didn't think too much of it, like why lie about something like that. But that is how honest people think, once he started a few stories that's when i took note very quickly and tested him. Thanks to Don Shipley being able to do a check that sealed the deal. The guy tried to make it like it was just a few times but as I dug deeper he eventually admitted the whole thing, he was a failed actor/model that was used on the cover for a novel that had a Navy Seal as a character. He had stickers on his car and as time went by it turned out he was using that BS for a few years to get little kicks here and there by people.
I have to give the guy credit in that he was doing his homework, and civilians that were not in the military and have not done some kind of combat arms background(Infantry etc) would not really be able to pic up on his scam so easily. There are a lot of these narcissist losers out there, its crazy. Really Lamb and his ilk can suck on a 45 for all I care. People like this should be dealt with harshly and in many cases criminally or through civil courts. In some cases jail and held for treason too.
People like this represent cultural rot and are making big off real soldiers that fought and literally died in many cases. Just look at the stories that Don Shipley has told of people that used it to get on TV or used it to impress people in the business world. The sad things is it works big time, I've seen it myself first hand in the little time I knew him very quickly he was asserting his fraud to current or past serving vets like myself. A couple of them were fooled temporarily.
In conclusion stop being a bunch of cuckholds about this stuff, people that do this garbage should be rooted out. It is a real problem.
Treason? Ouch.
By all means, it's scum that does such a thing but we cannot as a society make lying or failing to correct misrepresentation, a crime punishable by death.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Digital_Damage
05-08-17, 18:33
Mike lamb, Corey & Erika and the rest of these people can go F### themselves. I came across a guy like this pretending to be a Seal 5 or 6 years back ago, they make money off it and prey off people I was able to out him 1 month or so after meeting him. In all fairness when he first dropped the Seal line I didn't think too much of it, like why lie about something like that. But that is how honest people think, once he started a few stories that's when i took note very quickly and tested him. Thanks to Don Shipley being able to do a check that sealed the deal. The guy tried to make it like it was just a few times but as I dug deeper he eventually admitted the whole thing, he was a failed actor/model that was used on the cover for a novel that had a Navy Seal as a character. He had stickers on his car and as time went by it turned out he was using that BS for a few years to get little kicks here and there by people.
I have to give the guy credit in that he was doing his homework, and civilians that were not in the military and have not done some kind of combat arms background(Infantry etc) would not really be able to pic up on his scam so easily. There are a lot of these narcissist losers out there, its crazy. Really Lamb and his ilk can suck on a 45 for all I care. People like this should be dealt with harshly and in many cases criminally or through civil courts. In some cases jail and held for treason too.
People like this represent cultural rot and are making big off real soldiers that fought and literally died in many cases. Just look at the stories that Don Shipley has told of people that used it to get on TV or used it to impress people in the business world. The sad things is it works big time, I've seen it myself first hand in the little time I knew him very quickly he was asserting his fraud to current or past serving vets like myself. A couple of them were fooled temporarily.
In conclusion stop being a bunch of cuckholds about this stuff, people that do this garbage should be rooted out. It is a real problem.
Jesus, switch to decaf...
leibermuster
05-08-17, 18:34
In some cases I would say yes we should, there have been cases where people have jeopardize real life foreign operations or posing for events that have effected public policy in government etc. I forget the individuals name but this particular individual was actually giving advice to Rumsfeld because he posed as a CIA expert with years of experience. ( he was also on Fox news) Its crazy but you can clearly see that there must be strict penalties for things like that. So no I don't agree with you at all. This is the problem with US and many western countries we through the book at people for stealing a chocolate bar while white collar crime like Wallstreet get movie and book deals.
Treason? Ouch.
By all means, it's scum that does such a thing but we cannot as a society make lying or failing to correct misrepresentation, a crime punishable by death.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RobertTheTexan
05-08-17, 18:34
Who is Corey and Erika??
Mike lamb, Corey & Erika and the rest of these people can go F### themselves..
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
WickedWillis
05-08-17, 18:36
Who is Corey and Erika??
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They ran 'Range time TS' on youtube for several years. He (Corey) was outed about lying about his service, and his LE background. Her only sin was she is married to the guy lol
leibermuster
05-08-17, 18:41
Who is Corey and Erika??
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
He was an instructor pretending to be a veteran, and drooping the lines for sales. I forget the whole story but basically he did not last a week in Basic...lol. Erika was his bimbo wife that was making like a bandit of the lie. I never followed him on youtube but remember the shit storm that followed. it was entertaining...lol.
leibermuster
05-08-17, 18:42
They ran 'Range time TS' on youtube for several years. He (Corey) was outed about lying about his service, and his LE background. Her only sin was she is married to the guy lol
Apparently she knew...:mad:
Outlander Systems
05-08-17, 18:48
Dat azz doe. Amirite?
They ran 'Range time TS' on youtube for several years. He (Corey) was outed about lying about his service, and his LE background. Her only sin was she is married to the guy lol
WickedWillis
05-08-17, 18:55
Dat azz doe. Amirite?
LOL I definitely hear you
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-08-17, 21:46
Dat azz doe. Amirite?
Yes, yes you are.
ETA: To stay on topic...what does one do when their reputation has so publicly been damaged like Mike's?
Define damaged ...
How about sonny Puzikas...that's damaged.
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
ETA: To stay on topic...what does one do when their reputation has so publicly been damaged like Mike's?
Keeping in mind that he name didn't ring a bell with me when I read the thread title, my opinion might be off the mark.
He is done as a trainer at the level he was for the time being, maybe forever.
Obviously the first thing that jumps to mind is go do something else.
Another option might be to find someone who appreciates your merit as a trainer and go to work for them as a loyal minion. Just be a guy in the background for a while.
A third option might be to make apologies where need be, and continue on, without advertising anything that could even be remotely considered to be strap hanging on accomplishments related to your embellishments. And be truthful and up front about the past, make it part of your presentation.
Just some thoughts.
leibermuster
05-08-17, 22:59
Define damaged ...
How about sonny Puzikas...that's damaged.
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
Yes damaged but more ignorance there by the mob. It was an accident clearly by miscommunication, SP was given an all clear or something like that and the rest is history. You can nit pick a lot of things but from what I gather it was freak accident that could have been avoided. Russian methods of training are very good but they need to dial it back more and have a little more structure and slow down for civi/leo environments of training. It's not like we are coming off the farm like in 50's or something when people worked with their hands.
Don't care...I'd love to take a class with him still.
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
leibermuster
05-08-17, 23:10
Don't care...I'd love to take a class with him still.
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
Yes I would say he rings true on many things.
Look ..my whole point is that..
Don't do it..
Squash it when you can.
Why is it so hard....
Just be true to yourself...
And Mike.Lamb is gonna pay it sadly.
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
James Yeager will give him a job
RobertTheTexan
05-09-17, 01:30
They ran 'Range time TS' on youtube for several years. He (Corey) was outed about lying about his service, and his LE background. Her only sin was she is married to the guy lol
There was a guy in those videos??
All I remember is enjoying watching her shoot high caliber rifles.... The jiggle and bounce. Or automatic weapons also. And pistols. Slingshots??
Boo-yah!
No seriously there was a guy too?
:jester:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RobertTheTexan
05-09-17, 01:56
Treason? Ouch.
By all means, it's scum that does such a thing but we cannot as a society make lying or failing to correct misrepresentation, a crime punishable by death.
Agree. I can think of a lot of other criminals who should be behind bars rather than this guy. HRC for example. If we want to talk about liars and betrayal.
In some cases I would say yes we should, there have been cases where people....... giving advice to Rumsfeld because he posed as a CIA expert with years of experience........Etc etc etc ..... Blah blah blah......
while white collar crime like Wallstreet get movie and book deals.
First of all. Dishonesty is dishonesty. If you start shooting, or gassing people who are dishonest, you will probably have to kill 99.9999% of the US population. Maybe the world. That behavior is inherent to mankind. Everyone does something on the sly every now and again. Speeding, driving after a beer or two, lying to the spousal unit about how much that final build cost.... We all fall short. Somewhere along the line, we have deviated from absolute truth in some situation. Maybe to save a friend from embarrassment. But it doesn't change the truth. I don't know Mike Lamb. I did not know him before all this mess, but to point him out as the Evil of all evil? Brother go look at Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan... And those guys are supposed to be on the good side. But they aren't. That's not even addressing the left side...
Sure this Mike Lamb dishonored himself, the uniform he wore, and the service he rendered. Granted I am not a Marine, but personally I think the Corps is far too strong to even read register this guy as a blip on the radar, or a bug on their windshield. I'd be surprised if the Corps is still talking about this guy? I don't think they are. I think we could go on and on about what he did. But it doesn't change anything.
When I look in the mirror, I don't see stolen valor, but I darn sure don't see perfection either.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I took a Magpul Dynamics class where Chris Costa and Mike Lamb were the instructors. He seemed like a good instructor and a hell of a nice guy. It is unfortunate he got himself tangled in this mess. I can certainly see many people, especially veterans would be mad at him.
Who is Corey and Erika??
They were a pair of social media sensations who had a lot of hits on their youtube channel, attracted attention--a good amount due to her T&A with her wearing shot shorts on the range. They got sent firearms and gear to try out, had a range on some family property where they had various trainers give classes (I remember Yeager & Travis Haley were among them). They then went on to teaching their own classes. Ultimately, people got wise to Cory's phony claims, and then the town prohibited them from teaching classes on the property because it wasn't zoned as such.
Here are some pictures of the pair:
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq314/Pacs100/sc1.jpg
http://thefirearmreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/shorst2.jpg
http://img.youtube.com/vi/ZjMnuQEQs3U/0.jpg
As explained, Cory claimed to have been an 11B and made mention that he was in "the sandbox." Then he was outed and he kept changing his story to he graduated basic but they discharged him because of a health issue, and kept downsizing his claims. As it turns out he went AWOL a few days into Basic at the receiving station, if I remember correctly. To compare him to Mike Lamb is an insult to Mike Lamb who did indeed serve.
If Erica played her cards right she might used the publicity to launch a career in feature dancing. Who knows, if she gave private shows I might have taken her up on it and paid her extra money to call me Chris Costa while we were . . . dancing.
The last line is a distasteful, sexist joke that I felt obligated to make. I have no evidence to suggest that she would be interested in such types of lurid activities, and I don't even know if she can dance.
leibermuster
05-09-17, 08:01
Agree. I can think of a lot of other criminals who should be behind bars rather than this guy. HRC for example. If we want to talk about liars and betrayal.
First of all. Dishonesty is dishonesty. If you start shooting, or gassing people who are dishonest, you will probably have to kill 99.9999% of the US population. Maybe the world. That behavior is inherent to mankind. Everyone does something on the sly every now and again. Speeding, driving after a beer or two, lying to the spousal unit about how much that final build cost.... We all fall short. Somewhere along the line, we have deviated from absolute truth in some situation. Maybe to save a friend from embarrassment. But it doesn't change the truth. I don't know Mike Lamb. I did not know him before all this mess, but to point him out as the Evil of all evil? Brother go look at Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan... And those guys are supposed to be on the good side. But they aren't. That's not even addressing the left side...
Sure this Mike Lamb dishonored himself, the uniform he wore, and the service he rendered. Granted I am not a Marine, but personally I think the Corps is far too strong to even read register this guy as a blip on the radar, or a bug on their windshield. I'd be surprised if the Corps is still talking about this guy? I don't think they are. I think we could go on and on about what he did. But it doesn't change anything.
When I look in the mirror, I don't see stolen valor, but I darn sure don't see perfection either.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No I don't think you get my point at all. If you are posing as someone in certain government positions that could be sabotage and literally cost lives. Just because you have mental deficiency or psychological problems and need to be a star and feed the narcissistic ego doesn't give you a pass.
Mike lamb in my opinion is just a turd for what he did. But fraud is still fraud. If he indeed misrepresented himself than and profited from it then, at least fines should be put against him in this case. Impersonating or embellishing your character is a crime. Its called Fraud. Misrepresentation, lying, embellishing. All the same thing.
But for people posing as a CIA expert to heads of state that is serious. Through the book at him.
Either way people that do this shit should have to pay penalties and in some cases it is treasonous.
I think you guys are falling into the apathy category of emotions. This leads to complacency and when it comes to defense of one countries that needs to be taken seriously not a lacks a daisy approach.
Again in lamb case it's more or less a civil fine or lawsuit would suffice.
But I can't believe all say this...biker clubs deal out harsher penalties. Lol. It seems like some people are already forgiving and giving him a pat on the back. If 99% of Americans are BS dishonest, then USA has a serious problem, now I know that isn't true. Sounds like the moral compass needs to be rediscovered here.
Its simple if the crime fits the bill then the judgment should be given with the penalty and when it comes to Military it should be harsher, as military prisons/sentences usually are historically.
In Canada we have a defense ministry that literally embellished his role in Afghanistan. Stolen valor to the max and the Prime Minister let him off the hook.
But then again in a funny way it puts a target on his back by Islamic groups, so that's his baggage lol.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's not a complicated issue. You either lie or tell the truth.
Averageman
05-09-17, 08:25
It's not a complicated issue. You either lie or tell the truth.
It is that simple.
Your honesty and integrity might be all you have to take with you to the grave, but they can so easily be lost.
leibermuster
05-09-17, 09:08
Kyle Lamb was the real Lamb anyways. "Never go half Lamb" like Mike. Always go full Lamb like Kyle.
In conclusion. Kyle Lamb Rocks and Mike Lamb = turd.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Don Robison
05-09-17, 20:56
It is that simple.
Your honesty and integrity might be all you have to take with you to the grave, but they can so easily be lost.
The only thing a man owns that can't be taken is his integrity. Integrity can only be given away and like virginity; when it's gone, it's gone.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.