View Full Version : Paintball vs airsoft for a hobby
I know we have a few threads about the two for training, but I'm curious just about the fun perspective. I used to play a lot of paintball when I was in high school in CA and not yet able to get into actual shooting so I have a fair amount of experience there. I have never played airsoft though which is why I'm asking. My unit has done a few recent paintball events and it really got me thinking about picking one up since shooting (and lacrosse) can be limited depending where you live and I really miss playing a competitive sport. Obviously airsoft can have some training benefits and I could use my normal gear, but it seems like most players are teenage kids, which I generally don't do well around. Also, watching paint explode on someone is pretty satisfying. What do you guys think?
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I never did airsoft. I wouldnt mind getting an airsoft gun to practice with or as a facsimilie of an unobtainium gun.
That said.....Paintball rules. I was super, dooper into it in high school and college.
I camoed my mask and everybody wore BDUs or Treebark camo. We played on someone's land and we pulled some mean LRRP mess on one another. I had (still have somewhere) an old cocker pistol and a tippman semi marker I kryloned. We all used red balls.
We hard some firefights in the woods. Smacking a dude with a red ball was satisfying. And it was hard to cheat. One older guy made his own long barrel for dinging folks.
It was fun
Looking at youtube airsoft videos.....yeah, looks lame
I think the airsoft gaming thing is just another "LARPing" type event. Although not quite as gay as the sword fight stuff.
Real world training using airsoft is a different story, imo. I owned a decent quality airsoft m4 for awhile, and if you wanted to use it for shoot-house shit in your real house, it would work great. Very accurate within 30 feet or so, and would mark your ass up if you were in a t-shirt.
I gave my AS rifle to a friend (former Marine) to give to his kid...it never made it to the boy. They are that fun.
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I played paintball from the time I was 16 in 2002 until 2009. Started playing in the woods and when I stopped playing I was playing whats called "Xball" tournament paintball. Got to the Division 2 level at my highest and had a blast. Quit playing when I realized I couldn't stand the 14-20 year olds that made up the majority of my team anymore.
After a 8 year break, I have the desire to start playing again.
Outlander Systems
05-07-17, 08:33
Some buddies and I used to get our airsoft on when we were too young to buy guns.
I recently picked up an AS Glock and I'm in the process of building a AS clone of one of my carbines.
https://youtu.be/jIdgQpk7nMg
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-07-17, 09:26
I played both as a kid. Paintball was fun, airsoft was because I was too young to buy the guns I wanted to. This was probably 2000-2007. I'd honestly play paintball again, but I don't know anyone that plays it anymore.
It took me about 10 minutes of looking online to find a marker and hopper if I got back into paintball. Airlift on the other hand, there is so much out there and none of it seems that good. Some brands make good AKs but not M4s, some brands make guns for others, many are just stupid zombie BS. If I knew what to look for with equipment, I may give airlift a shot. I do really worry about all the kids and posers though. I almost dropped someone from my unit for pulling some shit, I have a feeling a lot of kids wouldn't be much better.
El Pistolero
05-07-17, 11:51
I used play airsoft competitively, on teams, leagues, mil-sim gaming, here and overseas. Who you play with makes a big difference. I played with a lot of fellow .mil folks and we did it to have fun but at the same time the "training" could be carried over into real world use, like using old abandoned multi-story buildings as shoot houses, night time games, etc. Airsoft is EXCELLENT for force-on-force training when you start injecting realism into it with tactics and using real-capacity or at least mid-capacity magazines. Separates you from the "kids" that just spray BBs indiscriminately.
A bonus with airsoft is being able to get guns that you can't get or won't get in real life because of cost or they're not imported here. My main airsoft gun is a G&G Armament UMP-45, with a Primary Arms red dot sight. I could spend $3000+ on an HK USC converted to a UMP and SBRed and still only have a semi-auto .45 ACP rifle, which is unappealing to me. Or spend $300 on a top-shelf airsoft UMP that I can have more fun with.
Airsoft has its place, don't be too quick to dismiss it. The training and fun value is there if you get the right group of guys together.
Outlander Systems
05-07-17, 12:21
Since I have no homobros to do FoF with, I'm strictly using mine for backyard steel challenges.
I ended up picking up a KWA LM4C PTR.
https://youtu.be/LmXksdi4eZM
I've gotten a case worth of ammo through it. And I've had zero problems. Pick up some Coleman propane tanks and a $14 adapter kit, and you can shoot for dirt freaking cheap.
The biggest thing the swayed me over to the LM4 PTR:
Absolutely 100% accurate manual-of-arms.
Gas Blowback/induces recoil impulse.
Aluminum construction.
Last round bolt hold open.
I don't believe it's considered airsoft Gucci, but zero ****s given by this guy. It's been doing what I bought it for.
It took me about 10 minutes of looking online to find a marker and hopper if I got back into paintball. Airlift on the other hand, there is so much out there and none of it seems that good. Some brands make good AKs but not M4s, some brands make guns for others, many are just stupid zombie BS. If I knew what to look for with equipment, I may give airlift a shot. I do really worry about all the kids and posers though. I almost dropped someone from my unit for pulling some shit, I have a feeling a lot of kids wouldn't be much better.
Here we go with the "paintball is for men airsoft is for laarpers" thing again... :laugh:
Having played both fairly seriously... it's a little more nuanced than that, and it kind of depends on where you live, and what you want to do with the sport. The style of play can be very different, depending on who you're with.
Actually, that's one thing I'll mention first- who you're playing with makes ALL the difference. I've seen plenty of bitchy whiners in both sport, I've seen all sorts of cliquishness in both sports, you'll get groups that want a good scuffle, and others that just want to sit behind a tree and lob it out.
So in that vein, the first thing you want to do is google around in your state and see what's available within a 0-2 hour drive. Beyond an hour or two, and honestly the travel aspect starts to take all the fun out of it, especially since most time you play will be for a day at a time (barring attending a large event).
So, in a sense, whatever field you have more of in your area will kind of decide whether you play PB or airsoft.
After you figure out what's around you, go to the field and play there at least once on a BUSY day (usually saturday). Don't try and attend a scenario event for the first time there, it's just going to be confusing. You just want a fairly busy day of general play to serve as a baseline for how many, and more importantly what type of folks inhabit the field.
It's going to suck, but if offered, I'd just use the field rental equipment for that one day, unless you have your own gear.
So, going back to players, there's quite a gap in what I'd say would be the "mindset" of a lot of players between PB and airsoft.
Paintball still has a lot more of a "sport" mindset to it- you'll get some good cohesive teams, but the majority of folks are going to be doing their own thing, tactics are more a cross between "sit and spray" and "mass charge". Now... that's not to say it's less fun, just less organized, and it can frankly be hard to get things done if running some sort of scenario. Communications, even on an organized team, can be pretty hit and miss- it's very much "grab that random group of players over there and do this thing until we win or run out of bodies". On the flip side, if you're a real balls-out run and gun type of player, it's a sport that very much caters to that (especially in the mag-fed community where there's less "spray and pray").
The Mag-fed paintball community has caught on quite a bit in the last few years, and those folks are generally slightly more tactically oriented, so if more organization is your thing, that may be the direction to lean. Plus with the advent of most serious players owning an electric gun, many large non-mag-fed events are simply running through endless walls of paint, as most folks are trigger happy to an extent not believed until you see someone rip through an entire hopper of paint for one kill....
The other thing is, generally you want to get into the more "scenario ball" oriented side of PB, versus the Speedball/Xball stuff. NOT that you won't still have fun with that, but it's just repetitive as hell. Scenario ball is different every time.
Airsoft has obviously got a lot more of a militaristic mindset going on, think Call of Duty in real life.
Now, this *can* be a good thing, as airsoft does seem to attract a LOT of current/ex military members, and depending on your field you can end up with a decent core of folks with actual experience that make things real fun to play on a more realistic level.
The next subset would be your "SEAL groupies" (or pick any other high-speed service branch), and this is where things start to get 50/50 in quality of players. Half of them are practically cosplayers (the "impression" crowd), that are going to spend a lot of time in groups preening over their 6000 dollars of Crye or Die, and looking out from under their Airframes at the "lesser" players. You won't get much out of these folks, but they damn sure like to give other folks orders...
The other half of the SEAL Groupies are the kids/young adults that want like hell to BE a High Speed Operator when they grow up, they've spent their every waking moment watching every SEAL video on the internet and building a "legit" kit, they'll generally want to DO on the field (instead of watch), and they'll likely have half a clue what to do if you want them to suppress a position, or flank, or whatnot. That being said, this subset, like the "but muh Crye" crowd can be VERY cliquey if you don't look "operator" enough.... even if you have 64 deployments to Asscrackistan... You can generally find them conga-lining around the CQB areas of the field in teams with rifles at high-port ready... :laugh:
Organized teams of players are, like paintball, going to be pretty insular if you're a new guy (even more so airsoft, as they have realized the use of radios to an extend the PB crowd still hasn't figured out). The "grab whoever and go" nature of organization in paintball can to an extent help here, as you'll likely end up with a constant revolving mishmash of players from every strata, whereas the airsoft teams are (generally) a hell of a lot better at sticking together.
The final group are the "regular players" or walkons- folks like you, that have no active affiliation and are just there to play.
For both paintball and airsoft, this subset compares about the same.
For Airsoft, you'll have the "serious regulars", folks like you and me who are coming over likely from either a military/LE or gun-guy background, running what our personal gun gear is since it works for both, and playing in a semi-realistic fashion. If you're lucky enough to form an ad-hoc "day team" of players in this subset, you can really have some fun running and gunning and flanking around where the "special" teams won't always go (The mud! Muh Crye!), and generally being the unsung heroes of each match.
For Paintball, the Serious Regulars are usually the guys with some serious kit (yeah... I said kit, what of it? :p ) that have play experience, but just aren't with an organized group yet. It's kind of a little more 50/50 in PB how much you'll actually get done with this subset (see my previous about the prevalent "sit an spray" mentality) BUT, on the flip side, if you have some gung-ho players, then like airsoft, since you're not with a team and getting sucked into mission-oriented stuff, you have the ability to not give a damn and go wherever you want, so sometimes you can really have some great firefights.
If it's not working out with these folks for either sport, then you're next best play is to either go full-on lone wolf, or tag along with a team (or if you're at an organized scenario event, wait around the CP for a mission to come in and join whatever ad-hoc group comes together to do it).
The other half of the walkon crowd are the literal walkons- usually the "kids" or "dad" with jeans and a hoodie and whatever rental gun the field is using with a single hopper/magazine of paint/BBs and no reloads. Or worse, the 15 year old assholes with 3000 dollars of top-end gear (dressed like a speedballer but not with a team, but with the same cocky attitude most speedballers have), or for airsoft the same age group "impressionist" crowd that knows everything (not) and tries to order everyone around. Run away from these people, it's needless stress you don't need in a game.
Now, kids can be a different story.... they'll either be utterly useless (in airsoft the kids with a 7-sizes to big PC hanging off them with an M4 that they make look like a 20" SR25 that they can barely lift- dubbed "shotgun midgets" after similar characters of Borderlands fame...:laugh: ) OR some of the best players. Some of them will end up cowering behind a bunker and devolving into a puddle of tears after their first hit, or if they accidentally get run over, and then others will run through a hail of paint or BBS, shoot a couple dudes, and then "medic" you back in...Literally.
I remember one paintball game, there was this 10-12 year old kid playing Medic, with a rocket launcher. That little dude was EVERYWHERE like a ninja, and probably accomplished more than some of the organized teams we had playing that event. I think he even got an award at the end of the game.
I will say this though- playing solo can get boring after a while- if you're not with a team (or for large events, don't at least have a radio tuned to the Command channel) you'll have no idea what's going on or where to go- it pretty much devolves to "march to the sound of the guns". So, if you're really serious about playing long term, you're going to want at least 1 other person as a regular player with you, and then either try to join a decent team, or think about forming your own.
Now, to touch real quick on gear-
You're going to spend a little less money on Airsoft guns and associated equipment than paintball equipment. #fact
In fact, you can get very high quality airsoft stuff for considerably less than paintball. The reason for this is, paintball, being little gel capsules, are very finicky, and to get a gun that will run reliably in (almost) all weather conditions (especially cold) requires a much higher end gun, and therefore a much higher outlay of cash. So, if you think a base Tippmann is going to get the job done... not really, unless you enjoy chopping every third round if the weather drops below 60, or the paint the field offers is junk (and with fields generally being FPO, gun reliability with ANY paint available is a HUGE deal)....
So you've generally got to get a decent electronic gun, AND an electronic hopper... Oh, and a decent air tank, the size of which is going to directly affect your length of time on field. A standard 68/4500 carbon fiber tank will get you about 4-5 Pinokio pods and a full Pinokio hopper (without the extension) *depending* on the air efficiency of your gun, whether the nimrod at the fill station gave you a full air refill, and whether your gun has any minor leaks you didn't notice...
That's actually a very good tradeoff in size/weight for an airtank (which is why it's sort of the standard size), but it can get annoying, especially if you're on a large field and the fill station is a good 15-20 minute walk away from the action.
And then there's the other fun side affect of air-powered things, in that, once you start getting down to that last pod worth of pressure in the tank, your velocity is going to drop, which means your range is going to be affected, which means you're either going to pull a kamikaze with your last pod, or wait for the enemy to be on top of you, or start lobbing, which is generally a sucky way to play paintball.
In fact, unless you're using First Strike rounds, paintball in general is very In-accurate. If you enjoy the ability to lay your sights on an opponent and shoot them in 2-3 shots, you're going to be disappointed with paintball in general. You're going to waste a lot of ammo shooting at things that are *just* out of range (or your guns ability to accurately hit) or that you know you should have hit...if you had sights to aim with. And no, the A5/X7 sights are not effective.
The caveat to this is Magfed guns, and First Strike rounds, which generally improve the accuracy greatly over standard "ball". Of course, decent magfed guns aren't cheap.
And neither are FS rounds, which is saying something since back in the day a case of 2000 Basic Field Paint round ball was running around $40-50 (more if you wanted the better stuff). If you're at a multi-day scenario, you're going to plow through at *least* 2 cases, if you're conservative and not a spray and pray type of player.
And finally, you'll need paintball specific gear, which is generally made by paintball-specific manufacturers, which to a large extent is made to a level of quality most would equate with "airsoft shit".....
Airsoft.... has many advantages over that (and some cons).
First off, the BB ammo is plastic (or some sort of biodegradable mix- some fields may REQUIRE "bio-BBs"...)- this means 100% prefect ammo every time, which means no finicky issues like PBs have, which means superior accuracy at range. And you're looking at a solid 50 yards before "lobbing" kicks in of accurate "minute of man" shooting if you have your guns calibrated correctly, and a red dot. So if you're used to having your AR zeroed at 50.... it's very similar in terms of POA/POI. Obviously, as with paintball, this refers to accuracy on a calm day- windy days, you're going to have to really pick up on your windage guesstimation skills, or play CQB.
The caveat is you must use proper airsoft grade BBs, NOT the shitty .17gr stuff in walmart. You're looking at .20gr and up, and the neat thing is, you can use heavier BBs to get better effect/accuracy at range, kind of like real ammo. Generally you want a .25 gr. round for best general purpose effect. Heavier than that, you're starting to get into "sniper" type BBs for long range shooting, and due to the increased felt impact with the heavier rounds, some fields may not let you use the heavy BBs at close range (would be designated for folks with an actual sniper rifle, and they'd have to switch to a pistol/SMG/etc. with lighter rounds for within 30 yards or whatever they designate a "safe" distance).
The good news is, airsoft BBs are stupid cheap- you're looking at around $20 for 5000. And if you're playing semi-auto, 5k rounds lasts a looooong time, even if you're really hosing.
Guns- like I said, you can get a decent cheaply priced gun that will work effectively. It won't be the greatest thing ever, and generally either few customization options, or just not really worth it due to the overall cheapness, but it will work reliably.... But even if you want a slightly higher end gun with more customization options, it's still not to expensive.
Your choices for airsoft guns are Electric (AEG) or Gas Blow Back (GBB).
Electric guns run off a rechargeable battery, and the best way to do this is to use an M4 style gun with the connecting wire running through the buffer tube, and then (if not included with the gun) buy a "Crane" SOPMOD style stock that will fit the battery inside it. Batteries are cheap, so are basic Crane stocks, so it's not to much of an outlay if they need to be bought separately.
For electric guns, you're looking at either "hi-cap" (aka "tactical maracas") or "mid-cap" magazines. Hi-cap are the easiest and cheapest option- there's a little sliding door at the top you dump the BBs in, then you turn a wheel at the bottom of the mag a number of times that feeds 30 or so BBs into the feed chute. The mags where you pull a string a number of times are generally pretty lame...
Anyway, hi-caps hold a few hundred rounds, BUT rattle like hell when half full (goodbye stealth) and you still have to turn that accursed wheel every 30 or so shots to take advantage of all that capacity. Which REALLY sucks when you're getting pinned down and you need to shoot a lot everywhere, and you have to keep stopping to turn the damn wheel, and then someone ALWAYS pops out on top of you either mid-turn, or right as you fire the last few rounds in the feed chute....
Mid-cap mags are going to be slightly more expensive (although I had some house brand mags from Evike a while bag that looked like Troy battlemag ripoff, and where awesome and pretty cheap), will hold less rounds (approx. 120), and require a special magazine loading device to use. However... that's all overlookable because they are FAR superior to hi-caps, for the simple fact that it is a constant-feed of all 120 rounds. So no more turning a wheel- it's now like using a regular mag, just with more ammo per mag.
They do require a loading device, but they are cheap, easy to use, and make a great way to carry extra ammo on-field in a GP pouch for a quick top-off, since they're pre-loaded with BBs to use. Kind of like a stripper clip for airsoft... :laugh:
The other choice is Gas Blow Back, which runs off something called Green Gas.
It has one huge advantage over AEG guns, in that you do not have to do a complete disassembly of your entire gear-case to shim and properly lube the internal mechanisms that drive and electric gun (unless you rapidly want to destroy any AEG...). I cannot stress how much of an utter PITA this initial maintenance step is, unless you've done it, in which case, you already know. Depending on the type of mechanism used, some GBBs can also be easier to "zero" than a standard AEG hop-up.
However, it has one huge disadvantage over an AEG per magazine cap, which is generally right around current magazine capacity (ie, 30 rounds for a rifle/SMG). Not a huge deal if playing semi-auto, but in large games can be somewhat limiting, given the magazines generally weigh around what real ammunition weighs, and you're not going to outshoot even someone running mid-caps.
GBB guns can also be a little finicky in colder weather (although IIRC there's a new type of green gas out that helps mitigate this), and you can have issues with the magazine seals for the green gas chamber over time. Given GBB mags aren't cheap... this can potentially be annoying....
All airsoft pistols are either green gas powered, or C02. Obviously, if you're running a GBB long gun.... you'd want a Green Gas pistol.
Quality generally varies, but there are some good options. That being said... it will be very difficult to find an exact match for whatever your real-life handgun is, considering branding issues, and that many airsoft pistols are not *quite* the same dimensions as their rel-life counterparts. So if you got a SIG-P226, there's a real good chance it will not fit in your current holster....
Finally airsoftgear- if you have an Airsoft M4, it will work with all your current gear, no need to buy anything extra. If you run a .308 in real life, just get an airsoft equivalent- will be a little more expensive, but mags will fit all your current gear.
The other thing that affects your gear choice is the style of play between the two sports. As mentioned, paintball is very spray-centric. You *can* play with a basic semi-auto like a Tippmann A5/X7, but eventually, unless you have an electric gun that can keep up with everyone else's ROF, you WILL be at a disadvantage. So the price of entry is generally going to be higher.
Airsoft, being more military-oriented, actually has a bit of a cult following for playing semi-auto only (some folks almost view run FA as slightly cheating, and there's quite a lot of effort put in to aftermarket parts to get better trigger "response" when shooting Semi, since standard factory options can be a little more sluggish than a real firearm) with FA relegated to actual support weapons (SAW,etc). You can buy pretty much ANY non-shit cheap entry level airsoft M4 off the shelf (of which there are a plethora) and fit right in. Regardless of whether the field or individual game rules call for Semi-only, or all ROF, you'll never be at *quite* the disadvantage that can happen in PB.
And finally, one HUGE advantage to Airsoft over paintball, is that it is CLEAN. You won't come home with every inch of your gear and clothing covered in paint splatters that take a damn age to clean, and if not cleaned gets sticky and smells awful. Seriously- stale paint is not a pleasant smell. Airsoft, no muss, no fuss, unless you fall in the mud, and then it's just plain ol' mud.
The worst thing ever are the combo paintball-airsoft fields, where every surface is literally dripping with sticky half-dried paint that's going to rub off all over everything on you. :bad:
Holy dissertation [emoji14]
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I'd rather shoot some other grown ass man in his buttocks with a paintball than have some 16 year old go on and on about hero crap.
Airsoft is cheaper, takes less prep, and is fun just to pick up and go.
Paintball is more fun, but takes more time.
We used to play airsoft around the house and neighborhood for 20 minutes or so. Paintball would be an all day afair, but was way more fun, imo.
Airs oft can be expensive, but a $20 pistol will last a while and can get the job done.
Outlander Systems
05-07-17, 16:33
Whatever you do, NEVER ask him to write an AAR of the BeanBoozle Challenge...
Holy dissertation [emoji14]
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So what your saying is we should all rent a hunting lodge, find a hobo, and pay him in whiskey to let us hunt him for sport with airsoft guns?
Because I just want to know if that is on the table here
That was a hell of a post, but had a lot of good info so thanks. Between many of the points you made and the rifle that Outlander posted, I'm leaning heavily toward giving airsoft a shot.
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Outlander Systems
05-07-17, 17:17
This place has private rates.
Dust off your plastic Smiff and Western and I'll see you at dawn.
https://youtu.be/S44PcMpZZHE
So what your saying is we should all rent a hunting lodge, find a hobo, and pay him in whiskey to let us hunt him for sport with airsoft guns?
Because I just want to know if that is on the table here
El Pistolero
05-07-17, 17:19
Here we go with the "paintball is for men airsoft is for laarpers" thing again... :laugh:
Having played both fairly seriously... it's a little more nuanced than that, and it kind of depends on where you live, and what you want to do with the sport. The style of play can be very different, depending on who you're with.
Actually, that's one thing I'll mention first- who you're playing with makes ALL the difference. I've seen plenty of bitchy whiners in both sport, I've seen all sorts of cliquishness in both sports, you'll get groups that want a good scuffle, and others that just want to sit behind a tree and lob it out.
So in that vein, the first thing you want to do is google around in your state and see what's available within a 0-2 hour drive. Beyond an hour or two, and honestly the travel aspect starts to take all the fun out of it, especially since most time you play will be for a day at a time (barring attending a large event).
So, in a sense, whatever field you have more of in your area will kind of decide whether you play PB or airsoft.
After you figure out what's around you, go to the field and play there at least once on a BUSY day (usually saturday). Don't try and attend a scenario event for the first time there, it's just going to be confusing. You just want a fairly busy day of general play to serve as a baseline for how many, and more importantly what type of folks inhabit the field.
It's going to suck, but if offered, I'd just use the field rental equipment for that one day, unless you have your own gear.
So, going back to players, there's quite a gap in what I'd say would be the "mindset" of a lot of players between PB and airsoft.
Paintball still has a lot more of a "sport" mindset to it- you'll get some good cohesive teams, but the majority of folks are going to be doing their own thing, tactics are more a cross between "sit and spray" and "mass charge". Now... that's not to say it's less fun, just less organized, and it can frankly be hard to get things done if running some sort of scenario. Communications, even on an organized team, can be pretty hit and miss- it's very much "grab that random group of players over there and do this thing until we win or run out of bodies". On the flip side, if you're a real balls-out run and gun type of player, it's a sport that very much caters to that (especially in the mag-fed community where there's less "spray and pray").
The Mag-fed paintball community has caught on quite a bit in the last few years, and those folks are generally slightly more tactically oriented, so if more organization is your thing, that may be the direction to lean. Plus with the advent of most serious players owning an electric gun, many large non-mag-fed events are simply running through endless walls of paint, as most folks are trigger happy to an extent not believed until you see someone rip through an entire hopper of paint for one kill....
The other thing is, generally you want to get into the more "scenario ball" oriented side of PB, versus the Speedball/Xball stuff. NOT that you won't still have fun with that, but it's just repetitive as hell. Scenario ball is different every time.
Airsoft has obviously got a lot more of a militaristic mindset going on, think Call of Duty in real life.
Now, this *can* be a good thing, as airsoft does seem to attract a LOT of current/ex military members, and depending on your field you can end up with a decent core of folks with actual experience that make things real fun to play on a more realistic level.
The next subset would be your "SEAL groupies" (or pick any other high-speed service branch), and this is where things start to get 50/50 in quality of players. Half of them are practically cosplayers (the "impression" crowd), that are going to spend a lot of time in groups preening over their 6000 dollars of Crye or Die, and looking out from under their Airframes at the "lesser" players. You won't get much out of these folks, but they damn sure like to give other folks orders...
The other half of the SEAL Groupies are the kids/young adults that want like hell to BE a High Speed Operator when they grow up, they've spent their every waking moment watching every SEAL video on the internet and building a "legit" kit, they'll generally want to DO on the field (instead of watch), and they'll likely have half a clue what to do if you want them to suppress a position, or flank, or whatnot. That being said, this subset, like the "but muh Crye" crowd can be VERY cliquey if you don't look "operator" enough.... even if you have 64 deployments to Asscrackistan... You can generally find them conga-lining around the CQB areas of the field in teams with rifles at high-port ready... :laugh:
Organized teams of players are, like paintball, going to be pretty insular if you're a new guy (even more so airsoft, as they have realized the use of radios to an extend the PB crowd still hasn't figured out). The "grab whoever and go" nature of organization in paintball can to an extent help here, as you'll likely end up with a constant revolving mishmash of players from every strata, whereas the airsoft teams are (generally) a hell of a lot better at sticking together.
The final group are the "regular players" or walkons- folks like you, that have no active affiliation and are just there to play.
For both paintball and airsoft, this subset compares about the same.
For Airsoft, you'll have the "serious regulars", folks like you and me who are coming over likely from either a military/LE or gun-guy background, running what our personal gun gear is since it works for both, and playing in a semi-realistic fashion. If you're lucky enough to form an ad-hoc "day team" of players in this subset, you can really have some fun running and gunning and flanking around where the "special" teams won't always go (The mud! Muh Crye!), and generally being the unsung heroes of each match.
For Paintball, the Serious Regulars are usually the guys with some serious kit (yeah... I said kit, what of it? :p ) that have play experience, but just aren't with an organized group yet. It's kind of a little more 50/50 in PB how much you'll actually get done with this subset (see my previous about the prevalent "sit an spray" mentality) BUT, on the flip side, if you have some gung-ho players, then like airsoft, since you're not with a team and getting sucked into mission-oriented stuff, you have the ability to not give a damn and go wherever you want, so sometimes you can really have some great firefights.
If it's not working out with these folks for either sport, then you're next best play is to either go full-on lone wolf, or tag along with a team (or if you're at an organized scenario event, wait around the CP for a mission to come in and join whatever ad-hoc group comes together to do it).
The other half of the walkon crowd are the literal walkons- usually the "kids" or "dad" with jeans and a hoodie and whatever rental gun the field is using with a single hopper/magazine of paint/BBs and no reloads. Or worse, the 15 year old assholes with 3000 dollars of top-end gear (dressed like a speedballer but not with a team, but with the same cocky attitude most speedballers have), or for airsoft the same age group "impressionist" crowd that knows everything (not) and tries to order everyone around. Run away from these people, it's needless stress you don't need in a game.
Now, kids can be a different story.... they'll either be utterly useless (in airsoft the kids with a 7-sizes to big PC hanging off them with an M4 that they make look like a 20" SR25 that they can barely lift- dubbed "shotgun midgets" after similar characters of Borderlands fame...:laugh: ) OR some of the best players. Some of them will end up cowering behind a bunker and devolving into a puddle of tears after their first hit, or if they accidentally get run over, and then others will run through a hail of paint or BBS, shoot a couple dudes, and then "medic" you back in...Literally.
I remember one paintball game, there was this 10-12 year old kid playing Medic, with a rocket launcher. That little dude was EVERYWHERE like a ninja, and probably accomplished more than some of the organized teams we had playing that event. I think he even got an award at the end of the game.
I will say this though- playing solo can get boring after a while- if you're not with a team (or for large events, don't at least have a radio tuned to the Command channel) you'll have no idea what's going on or where to go- it pretty much devolves to "march to the sound of the guns". So, if you're really serious about playing long term, you're going to want at least 1 other person as a regular player with you, and then either try to join a decent team, or think about forming your own.
Now, to touch real quick on gear-
You're going to spend a little less money on Airsoft guns and associated equipment than paintball equipment. #fact
In fact, you can get very high quality airsoft stuff for considerably less than paintball. The reason for this is, paintball, being little gel capsules, are very finicky, and to get a gun that will run reliably in (almost) all weather conditions (especially cold) requires a much higher end gun, and therefore a much higher outlay of cash. So, if you think a base Tippmann is going to get the job done... not really, unless you enjoy chopping every third round if the weather drops below 60, or the paint the field offers is junk (and with fields generally being FPO, gun reliability with ANY paint available is a HUGE deal)....
So you've generally got to get a decent electronic gun, AND an electronic hopper... Oh, and a decent air tank, the size of which is going to directly affect your length of time on field. A standard 68/4500 carbon fiber tank will get you about 4-5 Pinokio pods and a full Pinokio hopper (without the extension) *depending* on the air efficiency of your gun, whether the nimrod at the fill station gave you a full air refill, and whether your gun has any minor leaks you didn't notice...
That's actually a very good tradeoff in size/weight for an airtank (which is why it's sort of the standard size), but it can get annoying, especially if you're on a large field and the fill station is a good 15-20 minute walk away from the action.
And then there's the other fun side affect of air-powered things, in that, once you start getting down to that last pod worth of pressure in the tank, your velocity is going to drop, which means your range is going to be affected, which means you're either going to pull a kamikaze with your last pod, or wait for the enemy to be on top of you, or start lobbing, which is generally a sucky way to play paintball.
In fact, unless you're using First Strike rounds, paintball in general is very In-accurate. If you enjoy the ability to lay your sights on an opponent and shoot them in 2-3 shots, you're going to be disappointed with paintball in general. You're going to waste a lot of ammo shooting at things that are *just* out of range (or your guns ability to accurately hit) or that you know you should have hit...if you had sights to aim with. And no, the A5/X7 sights are not effective.
The caveat to this is Magfed guns, and First Strike rounds, which generally improve the accuracy greatly over standard "ball". Of course, decent magfed guns aren't cheap.
And neither are FS rounds, which is saying something since back in the day a case of 2000 Basic Field Paint round ball was running around $40-50 (more if you wanted the better stuff). If you're at a multi-day scenario, you're going to plow through at *least* 2 cases, if you're conservative and not a spray and pray type of player.
And finally, you'll need paintball specific gear, which is generally made by paintball-specific manufacturers, which to a large extent is made to a level of quality most would equate with "airsoft shit".....
Airsoft.... has many advantages over that (and some cons).
First off, the BB ammo is plastic (or some sort of biodegradable mix- some fields may REQUIRE "bio-BBs"...)- this means 100% prefect ammo every time, which means no finicky issues like PBs have, which means superior accuracy at range. And you're looking at a solid 50 yards before "lobbing" kicks initiate of accurate "minute of man" shooting if you have your guns calibrated correctly, and a red dot. So if you're used to having your AR zeroed at 50.... it's very similar in terms of POA/POI. Obviously, as with paintball, this refers to accuracy on a calm day- windy days, you're going to have to really pick up on your windage guesstimation skills, or play CQB.
The caveat is you must use proper airsoft grade BBs, NOT the shitty .17gr stuff in walmart. You're looking at .20gr and up, and the neat thing is, you can use heavier BBs to get better effect/accuracy at range, kind of like real ammo. Generally you want a .25 gr. round for best general purpose effect. Heavier than that, you're starting to get into "sniper" type BBs for long range shooting, and due to the increased felt impact with the heavier rounds, some fields may not let you use the heavy BBs at close range (would be designated for folks with an actual sniper rifle, and they'd have to switch to a pistol/SMG/etc. with lighter rounds for within 30 yards or whatever they designate a "safe" distance).
The good news is, airsoft BBs are stupid cheap- you're looking at around $20 for 5000. And if you're playing semi-auto, 5k rounds lasts a looooong time, even if you're really hosing.
Guns- like I said, you can get a decent cheaply priced gun that will work effectively. It won't be the greatest thing ever, and generally either few customization options, or just not really worth it due to the overall cheapness, but it will work reliably.... But even if you want a slightly higher end gun with more customization options, it's still not to expensive.
Your choices for airsoft guns are Electric (AEG) or Gas Blow Back (GBB).
Electric guns run off a rechargeable battery, and the best way to do this is to use an M4 style gun with the connecting wire running through the buffer tube, and then (if not included with the gun) buy a "Crane" SOPMOD style stock that will fit the battery inside it. Batteries are cheap, so are basic Crane stocks, so it's not to much of an outlay if they need to be bought separately.
For electric guns, you're looking at either "hi-cap" (aka "tactical maracas") or "mid-cap" magazines. Hi-cap are the easiest and cheapest option- there's a little sliding door at the top you dump the BBs in, then you turn a wheel at the bottom of the mag a number of times that feeds 30 or so BBs into the feed chute. The mags where you pull a string a number of times are generally pretty lame...
Anyway, hi-caps hold a few hundred rounds, BUT rattle like hell when half full (goodbye stealth) and you still have to turn that accursed wheel every 30 or so shots to take advantage of all that capacity. Which REALLY sucks when you're getting pinned down and you need to shoot a lot everywhere, and you have to keep stopping to turn the damn wheel, and then someone ALWAYS pops out on top of you either mid-turn, or right as you fire the last few rounds in the feed chute....
Mid-cap mags are going to be slightly more expensive (although I had some house brand mags from Evike a while bag that looked like Troy battlemag ripoff, and where awesome and pretty cheap), will hold less rounds (approx. 120), and require a special magazine loading device to use. However... that's all overlookable because they are FAR superior to hi-caps, for the simple fact that it is a constant-feed of all 120 rounds. So no more turning a wheel- it's now like using a regular mag, just with more ammo per mag.
They do require a loading device, but they are cheap, easy to use, and make a great way to carry extra ammo on-field in a GP pouch for a quick top-off, since they're pre-loaded with BBs to use. Kind of like a stripper clip for airsoft... :laugh:
The other choice is Gas Blow Back, which runs off something called Green Gas.
It has one huge advantage over AEG guns, in that you do not have to do a complete disassembly of your entire gear-case to shim and properly lube the internal mechanisms that drive and electric gun (unless you rapidly want to destroy any AEG...). I cannot stress how much of an utter PITA this initial maintenance step is, unless you've done it, in which case, you already know. Depending on the type of mechanism used, some GBBs can also be easier to "zero" than a standard AEG hop-up.
However, it has one huge disadvantage over an AEG per magazine cap, which is generally right around current magazine capacity (ie, 30 rounds for a rifle/SMG). Not a huge deal if playing semi-auto, but in large games can be somewhat limiting, given the magazines generally weigh around what real ammunition weighs, and you're not going to outshoot even someone running mid-caps.
GBB guns can also be a little finicky in colder weather (although IIRC there's a new type of green gas out that helps mitigate this), and you can have issues with the magazine seals for the green gas chamber over time. Given GBB mags aren't cheap... this can potentially be annoying....
All airsoft pistols are either green gas powered, or C02. Obviously, if you're running a GBB long gun.... you'd want a Green Gas pistol.
Quality generally varies, but there are some good options. That being said... it will be very difficult to find an exact match for whatever your real-life handgun is, considering branding issues, and that many airsoft pistols are not *quite* the same dimensions as their rel-life counterparts. So if you got a SIG-P226, there's a real good chance it will not fit in your current holster....
Finally airsoftgear- if you have an Airsoft M4, it will work with all your current gear, no need to buy anything extra. If you run a .308 in real life, just get an airsoft equivalent- will be a little more expensive, but mags will fit all your current gear.
The other thing that affects your gear choice is the style of play between the two sports. As mentioned, paintball is very spray-centric. You *can* play with a basic semi-auto like a Tippmann A5/X7, but eventually, unless you have an electric gun that can keep up with everyone else's ROF, you WILL be at a disadvantage. So the price of entry is generally going to be higher.
Airsoft, being more military-oriented, actually has a bit of a cult following for playing semi-auto only (some folks almost view run FA as slightly cheating, and there's quite a lot of effort put in to aftermarket parts to get better trigger "response" when shooting Semi, since standard factory options can be a little more sluggish than a real firearm) with FA relegated to actual support weapons (SAW,etc). You can buy pretty much ANY non-shit cheap entry level airsoft M4 off the shelf (of which there are a plethora) and fit right in. Regardless of whether the field or individual game rules call for Semi-only, or all ROF, you'll never be at *quite* the disadvantage that can happen in PB.
And finally, one HUGE advantage to Airsoft over paintball, is that it is CLEAN. You won't come home with every inch of your gear and clothing covered in paint splatters that take a damn age to clean, and if not cleaned gets sticky and smells awful. Seriously- stale paint is not a pleasant smell. Airsoft, no muss, no fuss, unless you fall in the mud, and then it's just plain ol' mud.
The worst thing ever are the combo paintball-airsoft fields, where every surface is literally dripping with sticky half-dried paint that's going to rub off all over everything on you. :bad:
This was an excellent post, thank you. A real treasure trove of information. I have zero experience or knowledge about paintball so I learned a lot.
The only thing I should add is that green gas is really just propane. Many many years ago somebody in Canada sent "green gas" to a lab to be analyzed by gas chromatograph and found it was really just propane with fragrance and silicone oil added, and then placed in non-DOT approved containers for sale. Gas blowback airsoft guns are certainly the most fun to shoot, they have some recoil and they are loud. I use a propane adapter to fill my GBB gun magazines, it saves a lot of money but the only downside of course is that it stinks like propane when you fire the gun. I have a gas blowback KWA MAC-11 that will put the fear of God on anyone's face when you fire off a full-auto burst at them with it. :lol:
Tempting.....wait until I get that AS Stoner 63
Outlander Systems
05-07-17, 17:32
Good overall rundown of the LM4:
https://youtu.be/8lOzf5rxF7Q
Outlander's twins:
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=45497&d=1494196245
That was a hell of a post, but had a lot of good info so thanks. Between many of the points you made and the rifle that Outlander posted, I'm leaning heavily toward giving airsoft a shot.
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Holy dissertation [emoji14]
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Hey man, if I got something to say... I say it.
In the spirit of an oft-quoted quote "as long as it takes, in as many words as it takes" ;)
I'd rather shoot some other grown ass man in his buttocks with a paintball than have some 16 year old go on and on about hero crap.
Eh, you're going to get that in both sports these days.
Gone are the dayes when men of olde faced each other in righteous combat in the woods and farms of smalltown "Merica with their only arms as overgassed Tippmann 98Customs and their only ammo being Monsterballs from the local Satanmart....
Whatever you do, NEVER ask him to write an AAR of the BeanBoozle Challenge...
Hold my beer....
*clears throat*
The Bean Boozle challenge, a game where two players of questionable mental capacity are challenged to risk literally throwing up in their own mouths by ingesting two of the same colored jellybean that, in actuality consists of two very different flavors.
There seems to be a couple different packaging options offered from the company for this game, so to start we'll go over some of the pros and cons of each...
Shall I continue? ;)
Outlander Systems
05-07-17, 18:31
@Jellybean
LOL! My kid turned me onto those and the dead fish one gagged me righteously.
Outlander Systems
05-07-17, 19:46
Regarding holster-fitment...
The Tokyo Marui M22 has fit in 3 out of 3 tested Safariland G17 holsters:
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=45502&d=1494204366
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-07-17, 20:07
I'd play this silly airsoft game again....if you weirdo's were closer to me.
Outlander Systems
05-07-17, 20:30
I would be honored to be shot in the face with 6mm electric death, from an M4C'er.
El Pistolero
05-07-17, 21:25
I would be honored to be shot in the face with 6mm electric death, from an M4C'er.
I wish I could find a good group of airsofters near me as well. I need an excuse to buy a G&P Stoner 63A.
Regarding holster-fitment...
The Tokyo Marui M22 has fit in 3 out of 3 tested Safariland G17 holsters:
45502
Ya know... I was going to recommend the original style adjustable Safariland holsters as an option, but I figured I had a big enough wall of text there...
They are a good option for guns with minor dimensional differences.
Where can I buy a quality mk18 clone and faux NT4?
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What about an entry level M4 and 1911?
Also do they make AS revolvers that are practical?
If we can schedule a free day; I"d be up to having an impromptu Tet offensive with the usual suspects.
The Stoner looks neat but maybe start with something more conventional
El Pistolero
05-07-17, 23:43
Ya know... I was going to recommend the original style adjustable Safariland holsters as an option, but I figured I had a big enough wall of text there...
They are a good option for guns with minor dimensional differences.
I've actually never encountered any airsoft pistols that didn't fit in holsters meant for their real steel counterparts.
El Pistolero
05-07-17, 23:50
G&P and VFC both make excellent MK18 clones, G&P for Mod 0 or Mod 1 clones, VFC for Mod 1 clones. I believe VFC even made a gas blowback MK18. I used to have a D-BOYS MK18 Mod 0 clone, which was a nice budget clone, all metal, but I broke it when I fell out of a second story window and into a tree, landing on top of it and literally breaking it in half.
For 1911s, I've been using a WE-Tech gas blowback 1911 (http://www.evike.com/products/27790/), looks just like a Springfield Operator and cost me about $100. Shot the piss out of it for almost 10 years and even lost it for a week when it fell out of my holster during a game and got buried in mud in a jungle in Guam. I scored a headshot with it at 25 yards once, one of my most memorable kills. Good times.
For retailers I like Evike and Airsoft GI. There is a better selection from Hong Kong-based retailers but shipping takes a month or more and your guns may or may not make it through customs, so prefer to buy from a USA-based retailer whenever possible.
My buddy rented out an indoor airsoft place for his kid to have a party and we played with them.
With my whopping 3 hours of experience I can certainly see how airsoft for force on force training could be beneficial.
Outlander Systems
05-08-17, 06:09
Cut the bullshit and go for this:
https://youtu.be/cSUwwHnLaJU
Where can I buy a quality mk18 clone and faux NT4?
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Outlander Systems
05-08-17, 06:29
Pistolero, you know anything about the G&P WOCs?
http://www.evike.com/products/35717/
El Pistolero
05-08-17, 09:39
Pistolero, you know anything about the G&P WOCs?
http://www.evike.com/products/35717/
Sorry, not familiar with those. But from the description it's intended for very experienced and knowledgeable players to assemble their own gun.
RetroRevolver77
05-08-17, 10:33
That wall of text on page one is impressive, though I didn't read any of it. Reminds me of a time I went to a friend's parent's house and met his father- he had some framed baseball cards in his living room. I made the mistake of saying; "so you like baseball cards". Next thing I know we're in his basement and he showing me thousands and thousands of narrow boxes filled with baseball cards. His entire basement dedicated to baseball cards like a library of sorts, all separated by years and teams etc. It was ridiculous and I felt that my shoebox of baseball cards as a kid was nothing.
I've actually never encountered any airsoft pistols that didn't fit in holsters meant for their real steel counterparts.
Well, I guess I should caveat that buy saying they'll likely fit, but perhaps not well.
For example the Glock clone a friend had would not fit in a standard formed-kydex folster (like RCS style stuff), as it was to tight, but fit fine in my Safariland, because it was somewhat adjustable.
G&P and VFC both make excellent MK18 clones, G&P for Mod 0 or Mod 1 clones, VFC for Mod 1 clones. I believe VFC even made a gas blowback MK18. I used to have a D-BOYS MK18 Mod 0 clone, which was a nice budget clone, all metal, but I broke it when I felt out of a second story window and into a tree, landing on top of it and literally breaking it in half.
For 1911s, I've been using a WE-Tech gas blowback 1911 (http://www.evike.com/products/27790/), looks just like a Springfield Operator and cost me about $100. Shot the piss out of it for almost 10 years and even lost it for a week when it fell out of my holster during a game and got buried in mud in a jungle in Guam. I scored a headshot with it at 25 yards once, one of my most memorable kills. Good times.
For retailers I like Evike and Airsoft GI. There is a better selection from Hong Kong-based retailers but shipping takes a month or more and your guns may or may not make it through customs, so prefer to buy from a USA-based retailer whenever possible.
+1
This guy knows his airsoft shit. :cool:
I had a G&P that I bought as a "limited edition" gun on sale with a 10.5 barrel and 7" rail, but it had a clone Magpul lower and Vltor upper, so I simply replaced the rail with a proper 10" DD RIS clone and voila! MK18-ishnes. If you go on Evike, that happens quite a bit- sometimes you can get a "custom" or "Special edition" built the way you want for less $$ than standard options.
A word about quality though- it's still all knockoff MIC shit, no matter how high-end the gun.
The aftermarket rail I bought would not lock up properly around the barrel nut when tightened, leading the to the rail shifting side to side if even slight pressure was applied. I had to DIY a shim out of some thin bendable metal to get a correct fit. Then it worked great for the rest of the time I had it.
So, YMMV, just be prepared to sand, shim and file as needed.
El Pistolero
05-09-17, 01:16
A word about quality though- it's still all knockoff MIC shit, no matter how high-end the gun....
I'll have to say that airsoft stuff made in Taiwan or Hong Kong is of noticeably better quality than anything Chinese. I have 2 electric guns at the moment, both G&Gs made in Taiwan. One of them is an LR-300 with over 300k rounds, and it has ran like a raped ape for as long as I can remember.
Outlander Systems
05-09-17, 09:10
Jellybean is correct.
My TM fits excellently in all of my Safariland holsters, but is like a square peg in a round hole in my kydex pancakes.
Cut the bullshit and go for this:
https://youtu.be/cSUwwHnLaJU
I have been lit up by one of those and it's not fun.
I played airsoft for a few years after highschool and before getting in to the real deal and I always had fun. Played with a local FL team so I never had to deal with a lot of kids but the few I did deal with weren't bad.
I played paint ball too and never liked it as much or got along with the guys as much as airsoft, that and it cost so much more money to get in to also hurt more.
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